Looking for knowledge on the Para Ordnance 1911 series, particularly the 12.45

[Alex F]

I am getting one of these in a trade, and I'm considering it for CCW.

I've tried glocks, USPs, berettas, etc. I keep coming back to the 1911, it's what I first learned to shoot, it's what I carried in the Army, it's what my muscles know, it's what I can hit what I aim with, every time.

Having said that, what are the pros and cons of this model? It's small, which is good for carry, but are they trouble prone?
Am I better off getting a 5" since that's what I'm used to?

Thanks in advance.

[Ambush Master]

The best person in here on the subject of Paras is TR. He's on TDY right now, but should be back soon.

[Alex F]

Roger that, in holding pattern.

[Ambush Master]

Bump to TR.

[The Reaper]

Good concealed carry piece, I love mine.

Functioned perfectly out of the box, some mods would make it even better.

Will PM later with additional info, or you can drop me a PM with specific questions.

TR

[Alex F]

Good copy on that, will send a PM tomorrow. I'm at work today checking mail, we're moving to a new place and have no internet at home till Wed.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Alex F
I am getting one of these in a trade, and I'm considering it for CCW.

I've tried glocks, USPs, berettas, etc. I keep coming back to the 1911, it's what I first learned to shoot, it's what I carried in the Army, it's what my muscles know, it's what I can hit what I aim with, every time.

Having said that, what are the pros and cons of this model? It's small, which is good for carry, but are they trouble prone?
Am I better off getting a 5" since that's what I'm used to?

Thanks in advance.

I am assuming that your 12.45 is a P-12, not the LDA. I do not own one of the LDAs, but hear good things about it. The only difference here would be the trigger and trigger job references.

To respond directly to your questions, the Para P-12 is an outstanding CCW piece.

It is compact (smaller then the small Glocks) and holds 12 rounds of an acceptable defensive caliber.

It is reliable and comfortable to carry in a good holster.

The Alloy version is the best carry version, and the stainless the most resistant to body salts.

Mods that I do immediately upon purchase are to install a good set of low profile night sights, an extended or ambi thumb safety, replace the plastic mag release button, and to replace the plastic mainspring housing with an S&A MSH/mag guide.

Function fire it, and once you determine it is running well and putting bullets where you want, consider adding some or all of these:

Dlask Trigger
Trigger job
Beavertail Grip Safety
Tuned Extractor
30 LPI Checkering on front strap
Dehorning

Once you have all of the work done that you want, consider getting the pistol bead blasted and refinished, either with a Black Teflon, or a Teflon-Nickel mix like NP3. Do not forget to plate your carry mags as well.

Mags should get cheaper next month if the AWB sunsets without further restrictions (Executive or Legislative).

Enjoy it!

TR

[Alex F]

Thanks TR.

It is the alloy model, it has 3 preban 12 round mags. It's not the new trigger system, it's the standard 1911 trigger.

I'll replace all the plastic parts for sure. I think that S&A makes a mainspring housing/mag guide with a lanyard loop, I'll pick up that one.

Can you recommend a good smith for the work you recommend?

Best regards

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Alex F
Thanks TR.

It is the alloy model, it has 3 preban 12 round mags. It's not the new trigger system, it's the standard 1911 trigger.

I'll replace all the plastic parts for sure. I think that S&A makes a mainspring housing/mag guide with a lanyard loop, I'll pick up that one.

Can you recommend a good smith for the work you recommend?

Best regards

The mags are 11 round, IIRC, not 12, unless they found some more room in there recently.

Get the S&A Para Ordnance Mag Guide (Drop-In). Unless you are worried about retention, I would skip the lanyard loop.

I use a local smith, most of the work is pretty basic. With the alloy frame, if you cannot find a good checkerer locally, they make a weld on checkered front grip strap that is pretty close.

Some with small hands prefer a grip reduction as well. Personally, I do not need it.

Have fun!

TR

[Alex F]

I'll take your word on the mags, I don't have hands-on yet.

I like a lanyard loop on my pistols... it doesn't add any weight and if I ever need to tie it off for any reason there's a lashing point.

There's a local gentleman that was a depot level armorer for the Army for many years, he now runs a Class 2 shop. I'll take it to him and have it done.

Thanks again!

Alex

[rubberneck]

Alex, I just had a Hi-Power worked on by Novak's in West Virginia. They work on Paraords, they do good work and unlike some other big name smiths they have a very good turn around time. They installed night sights, did a trigger job, removed the magazine disconnect, installed a match barrel and re-blued the gun and it only took 17 days from the day it left my house till the day it returned.

BTW they are a great bunch of guys to deal with.

Here is their ala carte price list for 1911's:

http://www.novaksights.com/Gun%20Shop/modifications.htm

They also offer packages but they never seem to have all the mods that I am interested in.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by rubberneck
Alex, I just had a Hi-Power worked on by Novak's in West Virginia. They work on Paraords, they do good work and unlike some other big name smiths they have a very good turn around time. They installed night sights, did a trigger job, removed the magazine disconnect, installed a match barrel and re-blued the gun and it only took 17 days from the day it left my house till the day it returned.

BTW they are a great bunch of guys to deal with.

Here is their ala carte price list for 1911's:

http://www.novaksights.com/Gun%20Shop/modifications.htm

They also offer packages but they never seem to have all the mods that I am interested in.

Wayne and his people are good, if somewhat pricey.

They are among the best HP smiths in the country, and their 1911 work is good as well.

TR

[Alex F]

I received the pistol yesterday, it didn't come with a beavertail grip safety and the standard safety is the standard GI type.

I'm going to get them replaced and put some low profile novak style sights on, then have it refinished in Black T.

No chance to shoot it yet, I'll attempt to hit the range this weekend.

[The Reaper]

Great!

Trijicon makes a night sight with the Novak profile, if they are not actual Novaks.

Make sure it runs right before doing anything mechanical.

I would clean and lubricate the pistol before running several hundred rounds of Ball through the piece, slow fire, rapid fire, inverted, double taps, drills, with all of the mags you plan to use. Keep a round count and note any problems. Finish up with at least 100 rounds of carry ammo for function.

If it doesn't pass, don't carry it till it does. I had an intermittent dragging Series 80 safety almost drive me crazy once, and I fired my old gunsmith over it. New 'smith found it and fixed it right away, and got the job.

Enjoy the new piece!

TR

[rubberneck]

Originally posted by Alex F
I'm going to get them replaced and put some low profile novak style sights on, then have it refinished in Black T.



I hope you don't mind being without your gun for 3 to 4 months which is what Bridsong's turnaround time is for Black-T. There are several other polymer finishes available that are of the same quality but don't take nearly as long.

You might want to check out the finishes forum at pistolsmith.com.

[Alex F]

Roger that, TR. I have been researching, and the consensus with these pieces is just as you said, a couple of hundred ball to break it in, then 100+ of the carry ammo to familiarize.


Black T has the reputation as the best... what can you recommend as equal to it, Rubberneck?

[rubberneck]

Originally posted by Alex F
Roger that, TR. I have been researching, and the consensus with these pieces is just as you said, a couple of hundred ball to break it in, then 100+ of the carry ammo to familiarize.


Black T has the reputation as the best... what can you recommend as equal to it, Rubberneck?

Black T is merely a variation on a theme. It's reputation was cemented when Springfield submitted their Professional model for the FBI HRT/SWAT bid and is no the "in" finish.

Don't get me wrong it is a great finish but there are close to a half dozen polymer finishes out there with the durability of Black-T. Tripp Research's Cobra coat comes to mind (his turn around is 7 shop days), dura kote is excellent as well, also take a look at Robar's Roguard finish (I think they are a month to a month and a half) the Reaper seems to really like their NP3 electroless nickle plating (if you don't mind a white gun).

There are others but bare in mind what every polymer coat you put on will wear off one day just like bluing or parkerizing, it just takes much longer. If you want a finish that lasts nearly forever you can bead blast it and then hard chrome for a nice flat matte look (or you can have it polished and chromed if you are into the pimp look:D ).

Good luck. If you need more info I have phone numbers and web address somewhere in my office.

[The Reaper]

Black T is basically Black Teflon, and a number of people do it, as rn stated, Gander Mountain and Cylinder & Slide offer the Black Teflon on a pistol for around $200.

NP3 is a combination of Teflon and Electroless nickel and should not wear through, flake, corrode, or otherwise come off. If you do not want a stainless colored, very slightly slick to the touch finish, look elsewhere, or get everything but the upper half plated in NP3 and get the upper done in Roguard (Robar's molybdenum-disulfide based polymer) for the two-tone look.

Here is one of Robar's two-tone Roguard/NP3 pistols.

TR

[Alex F]

Thanks for the intel gentlemen. I don't mind a two tone or even all silverish pistol as it's a CCW piece, not a tactical weapon.

Looks like some very good options here.... one last question for you: in your experience, is getting the mags done in the same finish worth the trouble/expense? I've seen the service offered but very little in the way of reviews on why.


Regards

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Alex F
Thanks for the intel gentlemen. I don't mind a two tone or even all silverish pistol as it's a CCW piece, not a tactical weapon.

Looks like some very good options here.... one last question for you: in your experience, is getting the mags done in the same finish worth the trouble/expense? I've seen the service offered but very little in the way of reviews on why.

Regards

Most of the finishes will slick them up for easier feeding, loading, and unloading, and most mag bodies tend to rust, especially in CCW.

Downside is that it can be expensive.

TR

[rubberneck]

What Reaper said. Tripp's research will do extra mags, in either hard chrome or their polymer coat for $15 per mag.

On the plus side Virgil Tripp, the original designer of the STI series of guns, is an excellent 1911 smith who could do your work and then finish the gun for you for a reasonable price and a good turn around time.

I have spoken with him on two occassions and he seems to be a great guy. One of the guys I shot IDPA with has a custom 1911 done by him and it is pretty damn close to perfect.

www.trippresearch.com

[Alex F]

Thanks for the link. I'll shoot them a call and see what I can work out.

[mumbleypeg]

From the thread Para's have a good reputation. It looks like a couple of people rely on them heavily. Any feedback on the single stack SSP that came out this year?

Thanks
Mike