View Full Version : Fear of heights/falling
I have searched for this particular subject but was not able to find anything.
My question goes to anybody who has or had a fear of heights/fear of falling, to those who have overcome it, and in general to those of you who have to deal with this as part of your job (as in parachuting, climbing…etc).
I’m mostly interested to hear how people have coped with this; or if you have no fear, what your mind set is going into situations that would be very hard if not impossible for people who fear heights.
I have spent some time analyzing my fear and I have come to the conclusion that it is strictly related to falling and not to heights; if you can even make such a distinction. I have never parachuted – I cannot be 100% sure – but I think that I would have no fear doing it because I know that I have a parachute, equipment that would allow me to land safely and not to plunge into death. This I think applies to everything else, I can deal with heights in any form, as long as I’m using equipment or relying on infrastructure (such as railings) that I know (or maybe “think”) will not allow me to fall. Most of the time, I would say close to 99% of the time, I can be looking down high places, and as long as there is a railing or I’m sure of the fact that I cannot possibly fall I experience no fear. This completely changes at such small heights as 6 feet if I’m forced to walk on the edge of something, and know that there is nothing holding me back from falling.
As I’m considering a career in the Army, this might prove to be an obstacle, and is something I wish to overcome regardless of how big or small of an obstacle it proves to be.
Any thoughts, tips or comments would be appreciated.
Dominus_Potior
06-19-2010, 04:27
I found this thread plus a couple more talking about facing ones fears, maybe my search finger is broken. :rolleyes:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194
ZonieDiver
06-19-2010, 07:35
Fear of heights! That's me.
Your assumptions, at least in my case, are correct.
Getting up to, and standing in the door of, the 34 foot tower was daunting - the first few times I did it. However, my mind was soon very busy focusing on what I needed to do (That was an unsatisfactory exit, Roster #39, recover and make another...), that it crowded those fears to the background.
Incidentally, as a kid I used to have frequent 'flying-falling' dreams. After airborne school, they soon went away.
Ambush Master
06-19-2010, 07:52
On a side-note.
After getting back into Jumping, after a 25+ year hiatus, I found that it is "VERY UNCOMFORTABLE" for me to watch current Videos of Jumping. I finally figured it out, that due to the quality of these videos, I was feeling uncomfortable because I didn't have a RIG ON!!! While my head was getting into the Jump (video), my body was saying NO!!!
Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to post a few "Helmet Cam" videos from today!!
Later.
Martin
Dragbag036
06-19-2010, 10:52
Everyone has a fear of some kind or another. it is what we do with that fear that makes us who we are. I have always stated " I don't fear height, but I damn sure respect it". Obviously there has been some form of conditioning early on, whether you realize it or not that gives you this feeling. For most, we get over this by training/conditioning. As in Airborne School, it is understood that many have what is the fear of the unknown. The structure of learning conditions the mind and body to understand that this is a survivable event. The Conditioned Stimuli is the training you receive on how to exit the aircraft and what to do at 100ft AGL and PLF's. The Unconditioned Stimuli is the parachute, as you did not pack it, but is is supposed to come open. In many of our cases it is the surprise or excitement that drives us to do it. We need that in the learning process. After repetitive occurrences we have what is known as Habituation. This is merely a shortened version of Cognitive Psychology, but I feel in many cases fear is a strong word. Inhibition to do something based on the unknown would be my words of choice.
I do ladder work in the summer months, sometimes I am comfortable with it, sometimes I am not. Yeah, it is a fear. Same height, two different jobs, one there is no second thought and the other I am thinking about it. The more open the field of view up top the more uneasy I am. So when I feel uncomfortable I focus on what I am doing and within a short time it isn't an issue. I also find the more ladder work I do the more comfortable I become with it.
But every summer I tend to start the learning curve all over again.
Green Light
06-19-2010, 14:42
I don't like heights. Period. But I was a static line and HALO jumpmaster. People who know about my previous life who see me hanging Christmas lights always ask me about the seeming contradiction. For me it's easy.
First off - there's a difference between height and altitude. Altitude is your friend, height is just a storage of potential energy bled off at impact. :D
Just like anyone else, the pulse and adrenal glands worked overtime, especially on night jumps. I don't think I ever worried about a fatal accident. On night freefalls, I was VERY concerned about my actions and those of others when we were getting close to pull altitude. Colliding with someone else or their parachute during deployment could be fatal to both, would at least cause life threatening injuries.
What I did worry about more than anything else was breaking an ankle or leg under a good canopy. I broke ankles on two jumps, one day and one night, during my career and saw several other guys break bones.
Facing fear is part of what makes us different. We do things that scare us. We take risks. But a risk is different than taking a gamble. Jumping, freefalling, mountain climbing, combat swimming, and combat diving all have inherent risks. But they are also safe. Through training and confidence in ourselves and our teams, we turn this into experiences that we look at with pride and anticipation. Yes, we're akin to "thrill junkies" and there have been books written about our need for excitement.
But I think the QPs here will tell you it's more than that. Without the relationships with our friends and teammates, we'd be just another bunch of sky divers, SCUBA divers, and mountain climbers. I've known folks from all three of those groups and they don't hold a candle to the QPs I've known.
I've often thought that the bonds forged between QPs doing these things is why our regiment had more Medals of Honor in Southeast Asia than infantry divisions 10 times our size. Combat can be more terrifying than anything else we have done, but it seems to be where we shine. QPs have met their fears and overcome them or at least learn to control them, to use the body's natural reactions to danger and fear and channel it. Reaction times are quicker, the mind processes faster, and the body is stronger. But also, fear is fun. The rush afterwards is indescribable in polite company. :D
dr. mabuse
06-19-2010, 21:28
*
Dozer523
06-19-2010, 22:19
In High School I was a competitive diver. (1 meter)
I was judged on the execution of 7 dives, four were "required" (everyone had to do them) front dive, back dive, inward dive. reverse dive.
There were three optional dives. I did a twister --1 and 1/2 somersaults with 1 and 1/2 twists, a backward 1 and 1/2 and an inward 1 and 1/2. (sometimes I'd do a forward double flip.)
I was terrified of the reverse dive. -- I'd get on the board, find my spot, look at my coach, count to three and the next thing I'd know I was underwater. I can't remember ever actually doing that dive.:D
I had to do it , the only way to do it was just to do it, I trusted my coach cuz she taught me to do it, so I did it. I just didn't think about it.
To this day I can't even watch that dive. It is completely irrational -- no I never got hurt doing it. I did hit the board on front flips, back flips and the inwards. That did not slow me down.
mojaveman
06-19-2010, 22:56
When I went through jumpschool in '84 the 200 ft towers weren't working so we had to go from the 34 ft towers straight to a C-141 that was flying at about 1,000 ft. That was quite a difference. I frequently got dropped for push-ups after jumping from the towers because I had my eyes closed. After about 10 parachute jumps I started opening my eyes while exiting the aircraft and it was an awesome view.
I HATE heights. I'm not afraid of them but they make me VERY uncomfortable.
Here's the strange part: I've never been afraid of heights while jumping out of an airplane though. I also never even once thought twice about hanging outside an aircraft doing my Jumpmaster checks. I guess I felt safe because I knew I was safe.
Now get me up in a high building like in Las Vegas and get me close the the edge and I REALLY feel uncomfortable for some reason.
Thanks everyone, ALL of your posts were helpful, reading them helped me confirm my suspicion about the nature of my particular phobia.
I now realize that it is not as big of a deal as I was afraid it might be, with some training I should be able to menage it well. I will probably start with some sort of training/conditioning immediately, try to expose myself to heights more frequently, take small steps (baby steps :D).
One more month and I will finally be back in the states, and can take other steps to get myself ready for the Army. :)
From an non-jumper, non-QP...
I was extremely fearful of heights until I discovered rock climbing on a backpacking trip in the Linville Gorge (met some dudes from Outward Bound ~1974 and was encouraged to confront my fears).
Free soloing in my youth became a passion (late 70's - late 80's) until I fell (Cracker Jack variant - Table Rock, NC).
Hanging around the edges these days without being roped in is...well....terrrifying and stupid...IMHO
The older I get, the more "respectful" I have become of heights, maybe even a little afraid :D nothing over 5.8 for me :D
These two are/were poetry in motion - total freaks...
Dan Osman > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPSaYkVRoNk
Dean Potter > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvmzhyAygdE
One fell jumping...
Worry about someone who's not respectful of heights...
Last hard class
06-20-2010, 01:00
I don't like heights. Period. But I was a static line and HALO jumpmaster. People who know about my previous life who see me hanging Christmas lights always ask me about the seeming contradiction. For me it's easy.
First off - there's a difference between height and altitude. Altitude is your friend, height is just a storage of potential energy bled off at impact. :D. :D
I have never been scared on a jump. While there is an adrenaline rush, it's like everything is happening in slow motion. Total clarity.
However:
At 70' on a cliff face, I have been known to get sewing machine legs.:D
Dragbag036
06-20-2010, 09:27
I have never been scared on a jump. While there is an adrenaline rush, it's like everything is happening in slow motion. Total clarity.
However:
At 70' on a cliff face, I have been known to get sewing machine legs.:D
I've experience total clarity, its like being in the matrix. Once on a jump in Malsheim, Germany, a few others on the Team had the same. It was actually kind of weird. As I pushed myself out of the helo, I could count the rotor-blades spinning. My count was in slow motion and when my shoot came open, I could hear it as the risers came to attention. As soon as I grabbed my toggles everything went back to normal. I have to believe it was because it had been quite some time since our last jump....rule 4, so our attention to detail and adrenaline was high. :eek:
x SF med
06-20-2010, 09:50
In High School I was a competitive diver. (1 meter)
I was judged on the execution of 7 dives, four were "required" (everyone had to do them) front dive, back dive, inward dive. reverse dive.
There were three optional dives. I did a twister --1 and 1/2 somersaults with 1 and 1/2 twists, a backward 1 and 1/2 and an inward 1 and 1/2. (sometimes I'd do a forward double flip.)
I was terrified of the reverse dive. -- I'd get on the board, find my spot, look at my coach, count to three and the next thing I'd know I was underwater. I can't remember ever actually doing that dive.:D
I had to do it , the only way to do it was just to do it, I trusted my coach cuz she taught me to do it, so I did it. I just didn't think about it.
To this day I can't even watch that dive. It is completely irrational -- no I never got hurt doing it. I did hit the board on front flips, back flips and the inwards. That did not slow me down.
Dozer- I too was a competitive diver 1m and 3m, but mostly 1m... and the for me, the toughest dive to learn was the reverse, it took months - for the same reasons as you - there is a large 'blind' area during the diveand the first thing you see coming out of the blind is a 20'x2' piece of double tapered alumium covered in fiberglass. I always prayed that the lottery for required dives came up with a twist rather than the reverse until truly mastered that series of dives. Irrational, probably, the inward layout is actually a more dangerous/difficult dive, but you aren't 'lost' during the execution.
I do have to say that diving gave me an edge in overcoming the fears and doubts of the rest of my life, especially when it came to parachuting and climbing due to the innate feeling of body orientation you gain from springboard diving.
monsterhunter
06-20-2010, 11:04
I had the same fears. I took up rock climbing and just dealt with it as best I could. After a while, I became much more acclimated. The fear of falling is not the problem, it's sticking the landing. Good luck.
Green Light
06-20-2010, 11:36
I've experience total clarity, its like being in the matrix. Once on a jump in Malsheim, Germany, a few others on the Team had the same. It was actually kind of weird. As I pushed myself out of the helo, I could count the rotor-blades spinning. My count was in slow motion and when my shoot came open, I could hear it as the risers came to attention. As soon as I grabbed my toggles everything went back to normal. I have to believe it was because it had been quite some time since our last jump....rule 4, so our attention to detail and adrenaline was high. :eek:
It is total clarity. The colors are more vivid, you comprehend everything in your field of vision, everything is slower, and yes, it is a Matrix-like moment.
At 70' on a cliff face, I have been known to get sewing machine legs.
I hadn't heard that term since mountain training in Toelz circa 1980. There's something about being splayed out like a cat on the side of a rock, higher than you want to fall, to make your leg muscles start that strange rhythmic vibration.
I also never even once thought twice about hanging outside an aircraft doing my Jumpmaster checks. I guess I felt safe because I knew I was safe.
I know what you mean, Al. I thought it was kinda fun. I always thought that those JMs must have had vice grips for hands while doing the 360 check outside the aircraft door, but once you do it you realize it's not that hard. I thought is was neat to watch the DZ coming up and watching the guys on the ground looking back up at you. You can tell everything that's happening down there (daytime, of course). You also have the added advantage of being the only jumper on the aircraft who knows where you are and what's going on. :D
I messed the mind of a young weapons sergeant one night. He was the first guy in the stick. I came back in the door after we crossed the leading edge of the DZ and shrugged my shoulders and said "I don't know where we are. STAND IN THE DOOR!" He was a trooper! He had that look in his eyes that he wasn't sure if I was kidding or not, but he went out the door without hesitation. I bought him a cool one that night back at the team house.
Team Sergeant
06-20-2010, 12:19
I've looked at most "dangerous" things I had to do in a different light, instead of seeing them as "fearful" I saw them as a challenge and an adventure. A whole different perspective in my opinion.
Fears are overcome challenges are met.
Diving out the ass end of a jet at almost five miles above the earth was a challenge, and was well met.;)
TS
I've looked at most "dangerous" things I had to do in a different light, instead of seeing them as "fearful" I saw them as a challenge and an adventure. A whole different perspective in my opinion.
Fears are overcome challenges are met.
Diving out the ass end of a jet at almost five miles above the earth was a challenge, and was well met.;)
TS
And can anyone still wonder why PS.com. is not the end-all-be-all when it comes to stuff like this?:lifter
Rock-on!!!
Holly
olhamada
06-20-2010, 15:09
These two are/were poetry in motion - total freaks...
Dan Osman > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hjs1bmx320
Dean Potter > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvmzhyAygdE
One fell jumping...
Insane and incredible.
greenberetTFS
06-20-2010, 16:28
I recall on my first jump I was nervous and reminding myself I'm not going to let fear get the best of me.............I don't know why but one of the jump school cadre came over to me and said "Hey big guy" I noticed some of the guys in your stick are looking kinda shaky and I'm counting on you going to go out first in the door to lead the way........ Wow,this guy believes in me,there is no way in hell I'm going to let him down......... Yeah I know he did that to get my guts up probably seeing I was the one that looked nervous,but it worked..............Geronimo!!!!!!!!!............. ;)
Big Teddy :munchin
Utah Bob
06-21-2010, 22:32
Man up Boy! The Jump School training cadre will help you get over your phobia. Or at least make ypou mopre afraid of them than the sudden drop. Then there's mountain training. Just hammer in the piton and drive on! Try not to look down.
It's all good.
Fear is universal It makes us human. Nothing wrong with being scared enough to wet your boxers. Ateleast your fear of heights is reasonable. I knew a guy who had a terror of bells. Christmas was a bad season for him.
Sing 5 Blood on the Risers and call me in the morning.:D
craigepo
06-22-2010, 08:40
Jumping made me nervous, but $110 per month jump pay bought a lot of Schmidt/Olympia/Rainier beer at the Ft. Lewis Class 6 store/Madigan Club.
Great thing about static line stuff, your parachute is probably going to open, and will probably help you hit the ground, somewhat softly, somewhere. ALMOST idiot-proof.
Hanging on a rock face scared the crap out of me. Got a little numb to it in Dahlonega. Didn't get paid extra to climb. Falling practice at Ranger school, using a bowline-on-a-coil, was painful.
cback0220
06-22-2010, 12:17
I am afraid of heights, have been my whole life. But I love flying, almost have my private pilots license, but like was said here before there is a big difference between height and altitude. I can look straight down at the ground in an airplane, but will never go near the ledge on a tall building. I hate obstacle courses, have a difficult time on a lot of the obstacles, but my fear of looking like a bitch outweighs my fear of heights every time.
When it comes to jumping, I hate it. Will prolly never like it. But I have done it everytime I am told to. More than anything else it was a sense of not wanting to look like a bitch. Plus I make sure I am never the last one out so someone else is always behind me, "pushing" me out. If I was the last guy out I would still jump, but it is always helpful to have someone behind me.
greenberetTFS
06-22-2010, 14:17
Jumping made me nervous, but $110 per month jump pay bought a lot of Schmidt/Olympia/Rainier beer at the Ft. Lewis Class 6 store/Madigan Club.
Great thing about static line stuff, your parachute is probably going to open, and will probably help you hit the ground, somewhat softly, somewhere. ALMOST idiot-proof.
Hanging on a rock face scared the crap out of me. Got a little numb to it in Dahlonega. Didn't get paid extra to climb. Falling practice at Ranger school, using a bowline-on-a-coil, was painful.
$110 jump pay,must have been an officer!!!.......... :rolleyes: My ass was only worth $55......;)
Big Teddy :munchin
Utah Bob
06-22-2010, 15:09
$110 jump pay,must have been an officer!!!.......... :rolleyes: My ass was only worth $55......;)
Big Teddy :munchin
Costs more to bury an officer.
Casket has to be larger up near the head.:D
ZonieDiver
06-22-2010, 15:43
Costs more to bury an officer.
Casket has to be larger up near the head.:D
I always figured it was because 'they' thought officers were inherently smarter, and therefore required more incentive to hurl themselves from the proverbial 'perfectly good aircraft.'
I always encouraged our officers in the USAR to buy the beers with their jump pay. My less than $5 per MUTA-4 didn't go very far, beer-wise. (IIRC, it was $3.87 per MUTA-4, but I could be wrong.). :D
(I rarely SAW my AD SF officers, what with all their additional duties, and was therefore unable to even try to encourage them to do likewise.)
craigepo
06-22-2010, 17:26
I'm proud to say I was an E-2 with a shiny set of mosquito wings when I began receiving my jump pay.
I've looked at most "dangerous" things I had to do in a different light, instead of seeing them as "fearful" I saw them as a challenge and an adventure. A whole different perspective in my opinion.
Fears are overcome challenges are met.
Diving out the ass end of a jet at almost five miles above the earth was a challenge, and was well met.;)
TSLooking back on what others can't and/or won't do, is what it's all about.
Stay safe.
Dozer523
06-22-2010, 22:21
Costs more to bury an officer.
Casket has to be larger up near the head.:D I heard, or saw something that, initially, only officers were to be jumpmasters. Glad that went away.
I hate heights!!! I too am a static line JM who just sucks it all up as part of the job. I hated climbing trees as a kid. I was terrified at Airborne School (second time on a plane the first being the flight to basic). I'm sure my face was green on the C-141. I hate obstacle courses (Nasty Nick is not my friend). I hate tall buildings. I hate 60 foot fast ropes in full kit. But damn I love this job. There is no better job in the world! I get to do all this AND a paycheck. I wouldn't trade it for anything.
I thought I would update this. I'm sure there are a lot of people that have a fear of heights that could end up coming to this forum and have similar questions. I have used this website for motivation, inspiration and as a learning tool so I feel like the least I could do is attempt to contribute a miniscule amount of information to it.
So, a couple of weeks ago I had the opportunity to confront my fear of heights at the Ft. Lewis Confidence Course during a RSP drill. (I enlisted into the NG as a 09S some months ago, I ship out to Ft. Benning for BCT next week and go to Federal OCS at Benning, right after basic.)
I'm going to be honest, when I looked at some of the obstacles on the confidence course (I thought of them as the most nefarious contraptions then) , I was scared. If you had taken me there a couple of months ago, shown me a thousand dollars and said "I want you to go up there." I would have laughed at you and told you to get the f#@k out of my face - I'm not crazy, I'm not doing that. Well, looking at the cadre, I had gained a lot of respect for them by now, I quickly realized this wouldn't fly!
Out of the whole Course there were about four of these things that made me swallow hard every time I looked at them, they looked to be 2-3 stories high, one could have been close to a height of 4 stories, but that might be just me imagining things. One of them was a tower that you climb as a team, the others were done individually.
Anyways, we started doing the course, one person at a time, and after about a quarter of the obstacles done, I was faced with my first major challenge. I apologize for I still really do not know what the Army calls these things, but in front of me was an obstacle that looked like a giant ladder, one of the Sergeants was close to the top, about two bars down, just sitting there and waiting on me. Well, I had just come off the weaver (I even had some trepidations on doing the weaver because I had to basically hold on to a beam of wood from the bottom and I was afraid I would let go and fall, turns out people don't let go of stuff if they know they will fall down!:D) , so I took about 5 seconds to recover, said a quick prayer...and started climbing. I tried not to think about anything , and I did not, within 15 seconds I was up and facing the Sergeant thinking "wow that was quick and easy". Then I realized I have to actually move my body across to the other side, it was scary but the Sergeant's presence made me calm and gave me confidence, I put one leg over, slowly shifted my body weight, then the other leg and BAM! I was on the other side and literally flew down the obstacle thinking, "WOW I did it" and just feeling really happy about having done something I otherwise would have never even thought about doing! ( Looking back at it, I sure did make a huge deal out of climbing up a giant ladder!)
Soon after came another "big" obstacle, we had to climb up to this tower, get on the rope and use our hands to pull the body that was on the rope at a downward angle for a distance of about 30-35 yards. I don't want to bore you with all the details. I quickly climbed up not really thinking about it, when I got up I looked down and took a few heavy breaths (again, it was scary looking down), there were two Sergeants that told me how to get on the rope, and gave my leg a nudge that seemed to have been stuck to the obstacle, I think being on the rope and coming down was actually the easiest part (there is a safety net below).
A similar process happened on the other two obstacles.
I did them all, and now I know why this is called the Confidence Course!!!:) It truly lives up to its name; it definitely did give me the confidence that I can face my fear of heights and that I can subdue it in order to accomplish what I need to accomplish. Don't get me wrong, this is not something that I'm particularly looking forward to be doing in my upcoming training, but it feels good to know that when the time comes I'll be able to overcome my fear and do what needs to be done.
To finish this up, I want to again thank everyone who participates on this forum, especially the QPs. I feel that having had access to such a fantastic information database that this forum is, has helped me acquire the right mindset that I will need to exhibit in order to be successful.
I'm excited about BCT, OCS and FA BOLC (well sort of, I have heard a lot of horror stories about FA BOLC) I'm looking forward to the challenge!
Regards,
Zosima
Foggy Bottom
10-02-2011, 12:08
I've looked at most "dangerous" things I had to do in a different light, instead of seeing them as "fearful" I saw them as a challenge and an adventure. A whole different perspective in my opinion.
I've always been very fearful of heights since I was very young. My father, being the type of person that likes to get into recreational sports, such as rock climbing and sky diving, also liked bringing along his sons. He's also a psychologist.
He taught me a trick to overcome these types of fears. Based on what Team Sergeant said above, I think he intuitively "found" that trick on his own. The fear you feel when pondering the sensation of falling or imagining being "nudged" by someone while close to an edge is you putting yourself on the far end of the "fight or flight" spectrum.
You overcome this fear by you willfully shifting yourself over to the fight side and telling yourself that you're here to win this fight in the same way you would in a fist fight. Tell yourself that if you lose this "fight" that there will be consequences. Sometimes you have to make these up, sometimes they're real. But sometimes the real consequences aren't enough to bring out the "fight" in you. Put it in your mind that if you don't win this "fight" you're going to get your ass kicked and running away, or "flight", isn't an option. Keep it primal because complex thoughts, like not passing the nasty nick and therefore not being selected somehow doesn't always register.
You're not fighting the fear now, you're fighting the challenge and thereby eliminating the fear/flight from the equation.
Oddly enough, in both EOD and parachuting I heard the expression "Anyone who tells you they aren't afraid is either a liar or a fool".
Years ago (early 70's, when dinosaurs still roamed the earth), the University of Massachusetts did a study where they monitored heartbeat and respiration of skydivers making a jump. They found that inexperienced jumpers were most nervous/aroused just before exit. Experienced jumpers had elevated physiological signs just before pulling. The conclusion was that as you became more experienced and began to trust your gear you knew that deployment was the most likely point of failure. Skydivers usually assert that the drive to and from the DZ is the most dangerous part of making a jump!
Ambush Master
10-02-2011, 13:36
Skydivers usually assert that the drive to and from the DZ is the most dangerous part of making a jump!
So TRUE!! I make it a point of telling the New Tandem Folks after their jump that after just completing the third most dangerous thing that they have done today, they are going to do THE SECOND MOST........Driving Home!!
Take care.
Martin
Yeah, HALO / static jumping is dangerous inherently, but I'll take that over leading a 5.9 trad route...... hence my damn broken T3. And even then, all I want to do is get back on the rock and / or ice...........