View Full Version : How young is too young?
How young is too young?
We've had this discussion before on the one that made it. I hope this one is found.
"Abby Sunderland Feared Lost at Sea"
"Crew Receives Repeated Distress Signals, Loses Contact With 16-Year-Old Attempting Circumnavigation"
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/abby-sunderland-possibly-lost-sea/story?id=10877108
"....... Guinness World Records says it will no longer recognize "youngest ever" sailing records, because they are so risky. But still-younger sailors are hoping to get their yo-ho-ho on.
A Dutch family court barred 13-year-old Laura Dekker from raising her mainsail alone. But she may finally get her chance later this year.
Her quest completed after 210 days at sea, Jessica Watson pulled into Sydney Harbor early this spring to a huge welcome -- and a classic sailor's response............."
mark46th
06-10-2010, 14:30
I live out in California and used to work in Marina Del Rey, her home port. Quite a bit was made about this be cause she is so young. Her parents should be jailed...
I live out in California and used to work in Marina Del Rey, her home port. Quite a bit was made about this be cause she is so young. Her parents should be jailed...
Bullshit.
Utah Bob
06-10-2010, 14:54
I think her parents made a foolish decision to let her do this. To what end? Just so she could claim a record?
Foolish.
Red Flag 1
06-10-2010, 16:38
I live out in California and used to work in Marina Del Rey, her home port. Quite a bit was made about this be cause she is so young. Her parents should be jailed...
Can not agree more!!
I have sailed West from Dana Point in the mid 80's many times. I never sailed alone, and filed a sail plan with my family each time. There is no way I would ever have put my daughter/son on a boat alone with any degree of comfort. If my son or daughter just had to go, I would have gone as well; to do otherwise would criminal in my mind. My prime concern would be that my son/daughter would not have the experience/sea time to know when he/she was in trouble, let alone how to deal with the trouble.
There are young sailors that have been trained to deal with the challenges at sea. What I do not know is how well this 16 y/o sailor has been trained. It is possible that this young sailor has been well trained, I still would have gone with her.
My $.02
RF 1
greenberetTFS
06-10-2010, 16:47
Can not agree more!!
I have sailed West from Dana Point in the mid 80's many times. I never sailed alone, and filed a sail plan with my family each time. There is no way I would ever have put my daughter/son on a boat alone with any degree of comfort. If my son or daughter just had to go, I would have gone as well; to do otherwise would criminal in my mind. My prime concern would be that my son/daughter would not have the experience/sea time to know when he/she was in trouble, let alone how to deal with the trouble.
There are young sailors that have been trained to deal with the challenges at sea. What I do not know is how well this 16 y/o sailor has been trained. It is possible that this young sailor has been well trained, I still would have gone with her.
My $.02
RF 1
I concur with RF 1 completely........:(:(:(
Big Teddy :munchin
Sailing solo also adds a severe fatigue factor.
Pat
What parent allows their child to go into potentially dangerous situations? Alone?
I'm just saying.
She is WAY too young for this kind of thing.
MOO - their call (parents + girl) - their having to live with the outcome.
However - YMMV - and so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Green Light
06-10-2010, 19:33
MOO - their call (parents + girl) - their having to live with the outcome.
However - YMMV - and so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Very true. But a parent's first job is to get the child safely to 18 years of age. After that, it's the offspring's call. IMO this is an epic fail for the parents.
That said, I hope she's found OK.
Single parenthood taught me many things, and I needed allies, but not at the expense of "Oh, sure you can get the "motorcycle"... or....Oh, of course you can have a sleep over at your boyfriend parents house....NO, I was an asshole. If they were not at the house they were to be at, and I called, guess who showed up knocking on the door....A sail in the bay with life jackets and under the watchful eye of ten yacht club sailors, Maybe!!!
The parents are responsible for her welfare up to the point she is self-efficient; 18 I'm not convinced that 18 years of age equates with the ability to discriminate outcomes.
Peregrino
06-10-2010, 20:09
Another victim of California Kulture. "No limits" isn't the same as "no consequences".
Bullshit.
Ok. What specifically is bullshit?
My positon is that the parents failed. My guess is that the price is that their child will die a totally unnecessary and lonely death far from soild ground let alone the companionship of another human being. They caved in to the desires of their CHILD and in some way their own desires to see her gain success and notoriety. THere were warnings about her timeline and the fact that she would be in the Indian Ocean during winter.... but no worries...right?
NO should be a regular part of every good parents vocabulary. My kids have a lot of freedom, yet I use it quite frequently. THe fact that my kids friends think of me as an a**hole and ask them how they can live with me is something that lets me know that I'm on track.
I don't know if the parent's should be jailed.. but regardless I'm sure that the fact that their daughter is likely to have suffered a terrifying and lonely death because of their failure to say NO will weigh on their mind.
Now they may go on TV and put on brave faces and talk about how their daughter died doing what made her happy and all sorts of other horseshit... but after thre cameras stop rolling they will have to go back home and look themselves in the mirror.
Very sad and unnecessary.
my $0.02
Green Light
06-10-2010, 20:37
I'm not convinced that 18 years of age equates with the ability to discriminate outcomes.
I didn't say they'd make good decisions at that point. :D
I'm a father of three. One of them is 21 and his ability to make good decisions that bring desired outcomes is still "iffy." I let him make the mistakes and point out the consequences when they come around. He quit his job a couple of months ago without something waiting for him. He soon found out that no job means no money.
Fortunately, he doesn't do anything fatally or legally stupid. He's coming around, tho. He has a roof over his head, but mom and dad aren't subsidizing him past that. He's taking his college boards on Saturday. He's tired of being poor and out of gas. :D Some lessons take longer than others.
But I hear you on watching the kids like a hawk. My wife and I both play the jerk. Our "No's" are pretty much in concert. I won't have my younger kids out there doing things that they can't handle. That means that you have to piss them off. I've gotten pretty good at it. :p
GratefulCitizen
06-10-2010, 21:31
If she had held a job, supported herself, and had enough left over to buy her own boat and finance her own trip, then she would have demonstrated enough maturity for such an undertaking.
Otherwise, the parents are just enabling risky behavior in order to enjoy vicarious fame and accomplishment.
But a parent's first job is to get the child safely to 18 years of age. After that, it's the offspring's call.
Were it only as simple as the culturally arbitrary and accepted age of majority reasoning of our legal system...
And so it goes...;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I was living on my own when I was 16, had my own job and car too. I sure don't tell my parents about my adventures on the loose in Mexico...
If I had the means of getting a boat and knew how to sail, I might've given this a try... My thought is who the hell gives their kid a boat.. A '92 geo metro was all I could afford.
Ok. What specifically is bullshit?
The line the parents should be jailed.
I've read threads here, more than a few, that request that facts come before judgment. The parents character, the competence of the sailor, the experiences of the family seem unknown here. The outcome wasn't even decided yet. Why condemn the family.
In fact many families allow their CHILD to go to war at seventeen. The judgment of many an eighteen year old could be argued, yet the common hypocrisy is even though they're not grown enough to drink responsibly they're good enough for war.
I understand the argument for maturity and experience, and concern of the timing and route.
In any case...
Teenage Girl, Sailing Solo, Is Found
By MALIA WOLLAN
Published: June 11, 2010
A 16-year-old girl trying to sail solo around the world who was missing in the Indian Ocean some 2,000 miles east of Madagascar has been found by a search plane and is in good condition, her parents said on Friday.
The girl, Abby Sunderland of Thousand Oaks, Calif., departed alone Jan. 23 in her sailboat Wild Eyes. On Thursday, she lost satellite phone contact with her family and set off emergency beacons, triggering a rescue effort by United States, Australian and French authorities. Ms. Sunderland was trying to break the record for the youngest sailor to circumnavigate the globe, a title held briefly by her older brother Zac, who completed his sail last year at 17.
“We have just heard from the Australian Search and Rescue. The plane arrived on the scene moments ago. Wild Eyes is upright but her rigging is down. The weather conditions are abating. Radio communication was made and Abby reports that she is fine,” Ms. Sunderland’s parents reported on her blog.
“We don’t know much else right now. The French fishing vessel that was diverted to her location will be there in a little over 24 hours. Where they will take her or how long it will take we don’t know,” they said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/12/us/12sailor.html
Missing 16-year-old solo sailor Abby Sunderland found alive and well
Abby Sunderland activated emergency beacons on her boat Wild Eyes in stormy seas, 2,000 miles off Madagascar
Chris McGreal in Washington and agencies
guardian.co.uk, Friday 11 June 2010 08.11 BST
A 16-year-old Californian girl attempting to sail solo around the world has been found alive and well following a desperate overnight search in a remote part of the Indian Ocean.
Rescuers contacted Abby Sunderland after she set off two emergency satellite beacons on her 40ft yacht, Wild Eyes, her father said.
Laurence Sunderland said rescuers on board a chartered Australian airline had made contact with her earlier today and that she was alive.
"She's fine, the boat's afloat and she's on it," he told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. "It's huge, fantastic, exciting news."
Abbey's parents lost satellite phone contact with her after she had told them she had been repeatedly knocked down in 60-knot winds and 50-foot waves, about 2,000 miles east of Madagascar.
One of the beacons was believed to have been attached to a survival suit and was designed to be set off by a person in the water or on a life raft. Both beacons were manually activated. Rescuers had been seeking to contact the nearest ship, 400 miles away.
Sunderland's parents, Laurence and Marianne, posted a message on their daughter's blog saying that when they last spoke to her she was having difficulties, but appeared to be coping.
"We were helping her troubleshoot her engine that she was trying to start to charge her systems. Satellite phone reception was patchy. She was able to get the water out of the engine and start up. We were waiting to hear back from her when American search and rescue authorities called to report having received a signal from her emergency beacon," they said. "We are working closely with American, French and Australian search and rescue authorities to coordinate several ships in the area to divert to her location."
But the nearest ship was believed to be nearly two days away.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/11/sailor-abby-sunderland-found-alive
The line the parents should be jailed.
I've read threads here, more than a few, that request that facts come before judgment. The parents character, the competence of the sailor, the experiences of the family seem unknown here. The outcome wasn't even decided yet. Why condemn the family....
So you're OK with the 13 year old giving it a go?
If the 13 year old makes it I'm sure there will be a 12 year old.
Would you draw the line at 10? How about eight?
Jailed? Child protective services arrest people at take kids all over this country for far less than letting them jump in a boat and take off around the world.
Even with all the high tec gear it's still a big ocean and help can be a long way away - as this young girl has found out.
Back in the old days with rigging down and bad comms- before rescue beepers - a sailor would have to repair their rigging and get some kind of sail up and head for the nearest port.
She was lucky, I'm glad of that. I'm a firm believer in "You can do what you want when you're 18"
Think on these two statements "I want to sail around the world alone." vs "I want to be the youngest person to sail around the world alone."
Did you read in the stories where the kids doing this are hooked up on the internet and know just who is younger than who? The Aussie Girl who made it was talking on line with Abby.
It's not to do it - it's to be the youngest to do it - and the parents are helping.
Supporting your kid means sometimes saying "NO".
Edited to add updates -
http://www.amsa.gov.au/About_AMSA/Corporate_information/Recent_Events/2010/June-WildEyes.asp
Single parenthood taught me many things, and I needed allies, but not at the expense of "Oh, sure you can get the "motorcycle"... or....Oh, of course you can have a sleep over at your boyfriend parents house....NO, I was an asshole. If they were not at the house they were to be at, and I called, guess who showed up knocking on the door....A sail in the bay with life jackets and under the watchful eye of ten yacht club sailors, Maybe!!!
The parents are responsible for her welfare up to the point she is self-efficient; 18 I'm not convinced that 18 years of age equates with the ability to discriminate outcomes.
As another single parent, two beautiful daughters and a son I agree 110%. I'm sure we could compare some stories Penn.
At least she was found safe and in good health.
mojaveman
06-11-2010, 08:09
Glad that she was found alive and well. The drama will make for an interesting $tory.
Bill Harsey
06-11-2010, 08:35
First, I hope she is recovered safely and in good health.
There was a long tradition of sailing the open ocean in part of my family and none of it was for sport and all was done under real sail cloth.
The passage this young lady was on is well known for rough water and heavy weather. I read a lack of respect for the ocean and a naive approach to safety single handing at that young an age.
Again, I wish her the best and her skills have gotten her this far.
It's one thing to want your kids to spread their wings and fly, but parents are in control of when they are ready to do that.
Are they?
http://www.ageofconsent.us/
http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/about/us_laws.html
What about a parent who buys their child a 4x4 at 16 and then - with the implied consent being that if you provided them with a 4x4 they would be allowed to go 'Four Wheeling' - the kid goes off into the mountains and gets stranded or dies? Should they be horse-whipped? :confused:
One of the two paratroopers who landed on the church in the town square of St. Mere-Eglise on the morning of 6 June 1944 had just turned 17 a few days before making that jump - maybe his parents shoulda been horse-whipped, too...or is that different. :confused:
Having raised three sons, I have come to realize just how complex it is...as are many such issues involved with parenting. It's pretty amazing many of us survive it all. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Utah Bob
06-11-2010, 09:19
Well, she's not dead. Great news.
I guess one can only go with personal experience. I know my son was not anywhere near ready to tackle a life risking venture like that and I never would have permitted it . Realistically, I don't think I was ready either at 16.
Giving your kid a car (a societal norm) and allowing them to go on a solo circumnavigation are two different things, a t least in the mind of most parents.
Perhaps the 4x4 is just as dangerous. The perception is that it is not.
If my kid died in a vehicle accident in the car I had given him, I would be devastated. If he died at 16 in a round the world sailing adventure that I had permitted and even encouraged, I simply could not live with myself.
craigepo
06-11-2010, 09:37
My Dad was 16 years old, carrying a BAR in Korea with the 5th regimental combat team.
The distinction between my father's service and this sailing trip is, in my mind, necessity. That girl didn't have/need to go sailing around the world.
I wouldn't blame a parent for having a child do a dangerous task when mandated. However, letting the kid go circumnavigate the globe, alone, in a sail boat, just to say she had done it, doesn't pass my personal smell test.
I think that this is a topic that is very personal in nature. You look back in time, throughout history, and what was considered a child or an adult has changed dramatically.
It wasn't that long ago that children of 16 were married, and having children themselves. It wasn't that long ago that children of 16 were fighting in the American Revolution or the Civil War.
This was a decision made between two parents and a teenager. None of my children would have been ready to do something like this, at this age. But I do know some teenagers that would have been.
Had the worst transpired, and Abby not survived, I am sure that her parents would be devestated, and doomed to live the rest of their lives feeling it was their fault.
But then again, if anything happened to any of the four of my children, during that time in their lives, I think I would feel the same, regardless of how it transpired. "She never would have been in that car accident if I hadn't given her permission to go" etc.... That is how, we as parents (for the most part, there are of course exceptions) are wired to feel. I sometimes lay awake at night with night terrors thinking of everything bad that ever could happen to my kids.
But if we chained them in their rooms until the magical age of 18, or 21 or 25 (whatever societal norms of the times dictate) they would never become responsible adults who will be able to mentor and raise the next generation.
The distinction. . . is. . .necessity. That girl didn't have/need to go sailing around the world. FWIW, I agree.
IMO, necessity--not age/maturity--is at the crux of activities centering around endurance in which civilians face mortal peril.
My $0.02 but even then, you'd still need to fill out the lost parking ticket form and pay the maximum daily rate.
My Dad was 16 years old, carrying a BAR in Korea with the 5th regimental combat team.
The distinction between my father's service and this sailing trip is, in my mind, necessity. That girl didn't have/need to go sailing around the world.
I wouldn't blame a parent for having a child do a dangerous task when mandated. However, letting the kid go circumnavigate the globe, alone, in a sail boat, just to say she had done it, doesn't pass my personal smell test.
I could not agree more, your honor. I think we all understand that not all 16 year old kids are the same (some demonstrate more maturity and responsibility than others). My 15 year old son is way more mature than I was at his age. However, it is the activity (sailing solo around the world) and the inherent dangers associated therewith which cause me to question the parents' judgment. There is a forseeability factor here that would have prompted most parents to say "no".
I am glad the young lady is safe, and hope she and her parents reconsider another attempt...she might not be as fortunate next time.
Bill Harsey
06-11-2010, 12:02
I am glad the young lady is safe, and hope she and her parents reconsider another attempt...she might not be as fortunate next time.
She hasn't been recovered yet, just sighted and seemingly in good shape.
My Dad was 16 years old, carrying a BAR in Korea with the 5th regimental combat team.
The distinction between my father's service and this sailing trip is, in my mind, necessity. That girl didn't have/need to go sailing around the world.
I agree with 'necessity' as a valid distinctive qualifier to be considered when making such decisions - however - I fail to see how someone's voluntary service at 16 in the Korean War (an action for which Congress failed to see the 'necessity' for declaring war) would be viewed as such a qualifier unless he was a Korean living in Korea and fighting for his invaded homeland. :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
If she had held a job, supported herself, and had enough left over to buy her own boat and finance her own trip, then she would have demonstrated enough maturity for such an undertaking.
Otherwise, the parents are just enabling risky behavior in order to enjoy vicarious fame and accomplishment.
Agree 110%!!!!!!!!!!
The above written words are exactly what I thought first thing when reading about this! I mean, WTF?:confused:
When a Job is to be done, a person must train, train, train...then train some more. When a Round-the-world SOLO sail is to be made, would not the same rules apply??? IMVHO, TRAINING takes time, right? Proper training takes even more time, and well, this little girl is lucky, IMVHO. And am glad she is okay.
Hope she now becomes aware that pleasing dad and mom, by risking her own life for an Un-Neccessary purpose , is not worth it.
Just my .00002:munchin
Holly
So you're OK with the 13 year old giving it a go?
Abby Sunderland isn't a 13 year old.
What I'm ok with is competence and demonstrated ability. There seems to be some of that in this family. The father is a ship builder who learned sailing from his family in the UK, and his continued sailing since. Seems he has some measure of experience sailing having learned from an early age from his family.
The Sunderland family in fact has spent some years sailing and living on water, from the U.S. to Australia. Her brother made the sail solo at seventeen. Seems he was also home schooled to a level ahead of his peers and kept up with his studies during his voyage.
True there are families who send their kids out the door with no preparation. There are others who spend time teaching their kids skills, test their awareness and competence and then gradually allow them bigger challenges. The Sunderland parents read like the latter.
Here's some sage thinking from an individual commenting on Abby.
I took my own 12 year-old son on a sailing voyage that lasted almost six years — but my wife and I were with him.
First I don't see the comparison, but he was comfortable with the chance of his 12 year old son drowning at sea, since mom and dad would be there too.
From what I can find Abby was prepared and equipped and the planning was done in detail. The Sunderlands, from what I've read, prepared their kids for life better than most parents prepare their kids for a walk to school or trip to the mall.
So I'm good with Jessica Watson, Zac Sunderland, Mike Perham, David Dicks and Jesse Martin having made the trip.
By the way, here's some response to Jessica Watson at the completion of her sail.
After she wobbled onto dry land at the Sydney Opera House, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd told her she was "Australia's newest hero." Other teenagers might think twice before disagreeing with their country's leader on national television. Not Jessica.
"I'm actually going to disagree with what our prime minister has just said," she told the crowd cheering her return. "I don't consider myself a hero. I'm an ordinary girl who believed in a dream. You don't have to be someone special or anything special to achieve something amazing. You've just got to have a dream, believe in it, and work hard."
The premier of New South Wales state, Kristina Keneally, told her she had inspired the nation.
“You have reminded us in a spectacular way that life itself is a risk, and those who don’t risk never win,” said Ms. Keneally.
Buffalobob
06-11-2010, 13:48
I worry about my son going to war and he is 21. What makes it worse is that I know what war is. These people are sailors and they know the dangers for a expert sailor and yet they send an untested, unproven child out alone in equipment that has proven to be not up to the ordeal. The operative word is child and it appears that they were just hoping for "good luck" instead of normal weather. As I understand it, the weather she encountered was not really abnormally bad weather for that region. They further cast aside all personal responsibility by saying it was her choice.
If I understand the situation correctly their son who is older once held the title of youngest but then last year lost the title to another person. The family has now sent the daughter to regain the title. It is all in the mind of the parents and they are the ones activity's pushing their children into an extremely risky stunt.
From what I can find Abby was prepared and equipped and the planning was done in detail. The Sunderlands, from what I've read, prepared their kids for life better than most parents prepare their kids for a walk to school or trip to the mall.
Excuse me for saying this sir, but at 16 years old, how prepared could she be? The Sunderlands need an ego check, IMHO. And they need to listen to folks outside of their, "circle," of friends who probobly promoted this at Their insistence. I say this b/c folks like these need outside approval from friends first, then once they have that, all is golden. :( Their own daughter disappears, and in that place becomes a twisted sense of prestige, IMHO.:munchin
Holly
I sure wouldn't have let my 16 year old do what this girl attempted - with any amount of training. I don't think training can make up for immaturity. Even a16 year old who is mature for her age is still less mature than a 20 year old.
From my own personal experience, (navigating different shark infested waters,) it all comes down to training, training, and more training!
(ANd looking back now, I see that as a neccessity!)
When a 16 yeras old girl or guy wants to please, they feed on and build on accolades from those in authority. In all honesty, this is a little girl, who like some of us at that age, wanted approval.
Bottom line, the parents better have drank their cup of STFU, otherwise, guarantee it, this poor child will be back at her attempt in no time flat.:munchin
Holly
GratefulCitizen
06-11-2010, 18:10
But if we chained them in their rooms until the magical age of 18, or 21 or 25 (whatever societal norms of the times dictate) they would never become responsible adults who will be able to mentor and raise the next generation.
Concur.
There are no guarantees; "control" is illusory and counterproductive.
Children have to learn the action/consequence relationship.
That being said, there is a big difference between "letting go" and "enabling".
Enabling is just another method of control.
It seems the parents of this girl did a great deal of enabling to promote their own agenda.
Somewhere between too strict and too permissive is the ever-moving target.
Regardless, the opposite of dysfunctional is dysfunctional.
TOMAHAWK9521
06-11-2010, 20:12
However you feel about this girl's capabilities, I heard a caller on a radio show today reiterate what his brother in the USCG said, "No matter how sharp you think your are, or more specifically or how well this girl was 'trained' by her parents, the ocean is the last place you want to go "play in", especially by yourself. That demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the ocean."
I mean, maybe she is a quit-witted, bad-ass of a 16-year old. But what could she possibly have over centuries of competent sailors who have died on ships with full crews? Technology? We all know how Uncle Murphy likes to tag along for the ride. Seems he was hanging out in the crows' nest for this journey and took hold of the wheel at just that opportune time.
Also, I mentioned in another thread about entering the food chain when you leave safe and comfy civilization and go bumbling out into the wilderness. Going out onto the ocean solo magnifies that at least by 10-fold. Make it an imature age/life experience level and it goes up to 100-fold.
As for protective parents, I'm the 11th of 12 kids. Dad was a Major in SF and Mom a 1LT in the Nurses Corps. By the time I came along, if I got banged up or what not, mom just kinda looked at me, threw back a shot, and told me to rub some dirt on it and walk it off. :D
Longstreet
06-11-2010, 21:22
I got banged up or what not, mom just kinda looked at me, threw back a shot, and told me to rub some dirt on it and walk it off.
Robitussin is what I prefer before walking it off. My students know it by name. "Less cuss'in, more Tuss'in!"
jaYson
I've sailed all my life, and had done a fair amount of offshore sailing by the time I was sixteen. My father and grandfather were both excellent sailors, and my brother is a downright prodigy. I learned from the best.
Would I consider myself ready, at sixteen, to circumnavigate the globe? Hell no. Certainly not in anything less than the massive ships the professional racers use when attempting it - and I doubt her parents were able to afford anything quite that seaworthy.
I'm with everyone else. What were they *thinking*?
...enabling risky behavior in order to enjoy vicarious fame and accomplishment.
And along those lines of risky behaviors, fame, etc... :eek:...
WARNING: Video will probably raise blood pressure.
I'd rather take my chances alone on a boat in the IO. ;)
Richard :munchin
Woman Striving To Be World's Heaviest
Reuters, 9 June 2010
A New Jersey woman is waging a campaign to become the world's heaviest living woman, admitting that she is as hungry for attention as she is for calorie-rich food.
Oddly Enough
Donna Simpson, 42, weighs more than 600 pounds (272 kg) and aims to reach 1,000 pounds (455 kg).
The mother of two children, ages 3 and 14, models on a website called supersizedbombshells.com, where admirers and the curious can pay to watch videos of her eating greasy foods or walking to the car.
She has appeared in television interviews and said she welcomes media coverage.
A Guinness World Records spokeswoman said Simpson has submitted a claim for the title of world's heaviest woman to give birth, a claim that is being reviewed.
(cont'd) http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6584WO20100609
NORMAL550GIRL, or, maybe she could be the first whale to sail solo around the world ... on a Twinkie. Ah, 600lbs...what an image!
cszakolczai
06-12-2010, 09:18
Woman Striving To Be World's Heaviest
Reuters, 9 June 2010
A New Jersey woman is waging a campaign to become the world's heaviest living woman, admitting that she is as hungry for attention as she is for calorie-rich food.
__________________
Oh DEAR GOD!!!
Good for her maybe she'll be the world's heaviest woman to have her kids taken away by protective services when she has a coronary in her bathtub.
I guess we can add this onto the list of why people hate NJ.
Excuse me for saying this sir, but at 16 years old, how prepared could she be?
First I have no personal experience of having met her or her family, or special knowledge outside what I can find on the internet. What do you know of Abby, Zac or the father Laurence.
Second how prepared can an individual be for any task. How much training do they receive over how much time, and what is the quality and intensity of the training. What is the quality and dedication of the individual receiving the training.
Your belief is at 16 she's a child too inexperienced and unprepared for this now. But in four months and a few days the country is good for her to enlist, receive a few months training and step into a hostile and deadly environment in a time of war.
Whats the experience requirement for a teen going into an urban assault firefight, vehicle ambush. What's the life preparation for that.
Their parents foolish neglectful, criminal.
Green Light
06-12-2010, 12:42
Whats the experience requirement for a teen going into an urban assault firefight, vehicle ambush. What's the life preparation for that.
I thought it was called BCT and AIT. Along with an older, wiser squad leader and platoon sergeant to give on the scene guidance. It's also why there's no one man patrols. Works pretty well. :D
mojaveman
06-12-2010, 13:34
As a sidenote question, but what is the point of sailing anyway? Why not just use a motor on the boat?
Better yet, why not just hire a crew of illegal immigrant day laborers to row for you? :p
Utah Bob
06-12-2010, 13:59
NORMAL550GIRL, or, maybe she could be the first whale to sail solo around the world ... on a Twinkie. Ah, 600lbs...what an image!
She'd have to get past the Japanese whaling fleet.
Could be a very exciting episode for "Whale Wars".:eek:
greenberetTFS
06-12-2010, 15:14
I don't know how young is too young..........:confused: But I received my wings at 17,just 3 months after my birthday and I see many others have also,so how young is too young?..............;)
Big Teddy :munchin
Remember - the youngest person ever to receive the Medal of Honor was William "Willie" Johnston, Company D 3rd Vermont Infantry, whose gallantry in the Seven Days Battles and Peninsula Campaign led to him being awarded the Medal at the age of 11 and his actually receiving the award just 6 weeks after his 13th birthday.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Green Light
06-12-2010, 17:31
Well . . . Not dumping your drum to lighten your load? Not exactly gallantry.
Well . . . Not dumping your drum to lighten your load? Not exactly gallantry.
Ever marched into three battles armed with nothing but a drum and had the presence of mind - at 11 years of age - to retain your drum and wits even as those around you fled in panic from the battlefield without their weapons or equipment? :confused:
Guess we would have had to have been there. ;)
And so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Longstreet
06-12-2010, 22:24
Remember - the youngest person ever to receive the Medal of Honor was William "Willie" Johnston, Company D 3rd Vermont Infantry, whose gallantry in the Seven Days Battles and Peninsula Campaign led to him being awarded the Medal at the age of 11 and his actually receiving the award just 6 weeks after his 13th birthday.
And do not forget that Admiral Farragut was given command of a captured British ship during the War of 1812. He was only 12 years old.
I am not sure what actions if any should be taken against the parents. When I first heard about this situation, I too felt the book should be thrown against them; however now I am uncertain. From my experience, age is just a convient way to include or exclude people when applying rules. It does not look at the 'maturity' or actual cognitive developmental level of a person.
I just hope when I am a parent, I will not have to face situations of the same magnitude. And if I do, God willing, I hope I can make the right choices or at least find comprimise.
First I have no personal experience of having met her or her family, or special knowledge outside what I can find on the internet. What do you know of Abby, Zac or the father Laurence.
Second how prepared can an individual be for any task. How much training do they receive over how much time, and what is the quality and intensity of the training. What is the quality and dedication of the individual receiving the training.
Your belief is at 16 she's a child too inexperienced and unprepared for this now. But in four months and a few days the country is good for her to enlist, receive a few months training and step into a hostile and deadly environment in a time of war.
Whats the experience requirement for a teen going into an urban assault firefight, vehicle ambush. What's the life preparation for that.
Their parents foolish neglectful, criminal.
Sir, am unclear if you are asking me a question?
My posts in this thread are my own opinion on this situation, a solo-round the world sail by a 16 year old girl, based on the available facts that were reported.
My beliefs that this sail was irresponsible, and negligent on the part of the parents may not be the right one, but it is just my belief. In any case, Fox just reported that she says she is going to do it again, so it may be a moot point regardless.
As far as I know, there are no posts on PS.com by me about troops and their readiness as I am unqualified to answer anything related to that topic.
Holly:munchin
And do not forget that Admiral Farragut was given command of a captured British ship during the War of 1812. He was only 12 years old.
Did he then sail it around the world solo?
Green Light
06-13-2010, 09:34
Ever marched into three battles armed with nothing but a drum and had the presence of mind - at 11 years of age - to retain your drum and wits even as those around you fled in panic from the battlefield without their weapons or equipment? :confused:
Guess we would have had to have been there. ;)
And so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin
To your point, I've always said that it was much better to have been a soldier in my time than in theirs. Having to wait until you're withing 40 yards to engage the other side and then, you're in a bar fight with "Joe Brown spikes" and nine pound clubs.
Combat will scare you. Being in a brawl with a cast of thousands is terrifying.
I thought it was called BCT and AIT. Along with an older, wiser squad leader and platoon sergeant to give on the scene guidance. It's also why there's no one man patrols. Works pretty well. :D
I was an 18 year old TL and a 19 year old SL, My Cbt Eng platoon assigned each of it's three squads to each line company. We didn't see our platoon sergeant or CO much until the platoon re-consolidated.
In my last years in the Army I had a wanna be hip hop gangsta in my unit. Only a handful of other idiots were there the night he decided to walk away from a fight, to get a shotgun to blow another off duty soldier away. The Army isn't always there with older and wiser any more than a parent is. The responsibility I see is to give them the best you can to make decisions, there's a time they'll be out somewhere they have to make those decisions alone.
My posts in this thread are my own opinion on this situation, a solo-round the world sail by a 16 year old girl, based on the available facts that were reported.
My beliefs that this sail was irresponsible, and negligent on the part of the parents may not be the right one, but it is just my belief. In any case, Fox just reported that she says she is going to do it again, so it may be a moot point regardless.
You are making an opinion on age in relation to ability. You would not allow for a young woman four months and some days from the age of eligibility to enlist make this sail. Would you allow her to enlist that four months and days later. It's a parental decision, not a military tactical choice.
The facts that aren't being reported as widely are the father daughter and family sailing experiences and time. If you were aware of those facts and they pointed to competence, ability and maturity in decision making would that change your mind. Or is age the end all.
She stated she'd like to try again, but doesn't know when she'll have the chance again. Needing a boat and time and all.
It's evident everyone wants the best for their children and others. I also believe I see why Jessica Watson and Zac and Abby Sunderland are the exceptions, and so rare and alarming to some.
And stop calling me sir, I wasn't an officer and we're both adults. But thanks for the courtesy, Ma'am :)
To your point, I've always said that it was much better to have been a soldier in my time than in theirs. Having to wait until you're within 40 yards to engage the other side and then, you're in a bar fight with "Joe Brown spikes" and nine pound clubs.
Combat will scare you. Being in a brawl with a cast of thousands is terrifying.
Yep - I've always thought the same thing - and visiting places like Antietam and Gettysburg and Verdun and Waterloo served to reinforce those thoughts in my mind. ;)
Richard :munchin
You are making an opinion on age in relation to ability. You would not allow for a young woman four months and some days from the age of eligibility to enlist make this sail. Would you allow her to enlist that four months and days later. It's a parental decision, not a military tactical choice.
The facts that aren't being reported as widely are the father daughter and family sailing experiences and time. If you were aware of those facts and they pointed to competence, ability and maturity in decision making would that change your mind. Or is age the end all.
She stated she'd like to try again, but doesn't know when she'll have the chance again. Needing a boat and time and all.
It's evident everyone wants the best for their children and others. I also believe I see why Jessica Watson and Zac and Abby Sunderland are the exceptions, and so rare and alarming to some.
And stop calling me sir, I wasn't an officer and we're both adults. But thanks for the courtesy, Ma'am :)
sf11b,
My beliefs are not going to change, based on my own research of what other QP's here have said, and what my gut tells me. But thank you for providing a differing viewpoint, and again, my qualifications on any kind of military readiness are worthless, since I have none.
Personally, it seems as if no lesson were learned by this young lady, or her "parents," IMVHO." So, she is going to "try-it" again. :rolleyes:
Holly---> Not Ma'am, but thanks for the courtesy...;)
x SF med
06-13-2010, 13:34
At 12, my folks let me hike a portion of the Appalachian Trail for two weeks with another 12 yr old friend. This was long before GPS and cell phones. We even had to take a train into NYC, then a bus to CT, then walk to get to the Trailhead... We spent 2 months planning a 2 week trip, and were relting on being able to get to a payphone in the middle of nowhere if something went awry. Were my parenets irresponsible? I think not. We had to run the entire plan by them, with stopovers and a commo plan, if we missed commo, they would wait 6 hours, then call ... we were only late on our commo plan once, we had to walk an extra 6 miles to get to a phone, the one at the ranger station was out of order due to a storm the night before.
Abby Sunderland isn't a 13 year old......
I never said Abby was 13. The 13 year old's parents are fighting it out in a European Court to allow their kid to sail.
It appears there are a lot of posters in this thread who think if the parent's of a 13 year old thinks it's OK - well, let them sail.
After all as long as the parents...............
Along those lines...
In Youth Hockey, 'Checking' Ups Risk Of Brain Injury
NPR, 13 June 2010
All contact sports introduce the risk of injury. But researchers say there's one move in hockey that can be mighty dangerous for young players: the body check. A new study finds 11-year-olds who played in a league that allows checking — using your body to block another player — are more than three times as likely to suffer concussions and serious injuries compared with kids who played in a league that bans checking.
Carolyn Emery of the University of Calgary, one of the researchers who conducted the study, said that if body checking were banned in her province — Alberta, Canada — "we'd expect to see 1,000 fewer injuries and about 400 fewer concussions."
In the study, which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, Emery compared injury rates among hockey players in Alberta to those in Quebec.
Typically many hockey leagues in the United States and Canada introduce checking at age 11. "But I think these findings are strong evidence to support the notion that perhaps the age at which body checking is introduced should be reconsidered," says Emery.
The American Academy of Pediatrics agrees. The group recommends limiting the practice of checking for all players younger than 15. The policy was drafted in 2007 after a report that concluded body checking accounts for 86 percent of all injuries that occurred during games played by 9- to 15-year-olds.
(cont'd) http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127748445
And then there are the issues associated with youth football injuries, youth baseball injuries (especially to young pitchers), etc...decisions, decisions...what's a parent ot do? :confused:
And so it goes...;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Green Light
06-13-2010, 16:42
Along those lines......what's a parent ot do? :confused:
And so it goes...;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Use judgement. Hopefully the good kind. :)
greenberetTFS
06-13-2010, 17:06
Along those lines...
In Youth Hockey, 'Checking' Ups Risk Of Brain Injury
NPR, 13 June 2010
All contact sports introduce the risk of injury. But researchers say there's one move in hockey that can be mighty dangerous for young players: the body check. A new study finds 11-year-olds who played in a league that allows checking — using your body to block another player — are more than three times as likely to suffer concussions and serious injuries compared with kids who played in a league that bans checking.
Carolyn Emery of the University of Calgary, one of the researchers who conducted the study, said that if body checking were banned in her province — Alberta, Canada — "we'd expect to see 1,000 fewer injuries and about 400 fewer concussions."
In the study, which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, Emery compared injury rates among hockey players in Alberta to those in Quebec.
Typically many hockey leagues in the United States and Canada introduce checking at age 11. "But I think these findings are strong evidence to support the notion that perhaps the age at which body checking is introduced should be reconsidered," says Emery.
The American Academy of Pediatrics agrees. The group recommends limiting the practice of checking for all players younger than 15. The policy was drafted in 2007 after a report that concluded body checking accounts for 86 percent of all injuries that occurred during games played by 9-to 15-year-olds.
(cont'd) http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127748445
And then there are the issues associated with youth football injuries, youth baseball injuries (especially to young pitchers), etc...decisions, decisions...what's a parent to do?
And so it goes...;)
Richard's $.02
Ah Richard,at last a subject in which I've got a pretty good background in..........
Checking is a part of the game............I don't see checking as the report claims..... I've played the game(when Col Maloney and I were in the same age group and discuss it quite a bit)....... Cross checking is the real culprit,it can and does cause some real serious problems when it happens and of course it is foul and a penalty........Hockey has evolved just like the Army's combat gear,helmets,body armor, etc............ I've coached kids from mites to young teens and the kids loved to check because it's a part of the game and no check hockey just didn't cut it...... Pretty soon we all will start dancing around the mulberry bush because it is the safest game we can play without hurting ourselves....................:(:(
Big Teddy :munchin
Longstreet
06-13-2010, 17:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longstreet
And do not forget that Admiral Farragut was given command of a captured British ship during the War of 1812. He was only 12 years old.
Did he then sail it around the world solo?
I think you may have missed the point. Children are capable of much more than we realize. Who is to say what they are or are not capable of?
Cross checking is the real culprit,it can and does cause some real serious problems when it happens
For the most part I concur. Youth hockey injuries can be avoided with a more proactive approach to proper technique. As a ref and a player I have seen to many young players endanger others by getting their arms and sticks involved during a check. Another danger is having players who skate with their head down. That's a big no-no on the sheet.
craigepo
06-14-2010, 08:14
Children are capable of much more than we realize. Who is to say what they are or are not capable of?
Parents and responsible adults with years of knowledge, experience, and a smidgen of common sense? It's an idea that's been around for quite some time.
However you feel about this girl's capabilities, I heard a caller on a radio show today reiterate what his brother in the USCG said, "No matter how sharp you think your are, or more specifically or how well this girl was 'trained' by her parents, the ocean is the last place you want to go "play in", especially by yourself. That demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the ocean."
I mean, maybe she is a quit-witted, bad-ass of a 16-year old. But what could she possibly have over centuries of competent sailors who have died on ships with full crews? Technology? We all know how Uncle Murphy likes to tag along for the ride. Seems he was hanging out in the crows' nest for this journey and took hold of the wheel at just that opportune time.
Also, I mentioned in another thread about entering the food chain when you leave safe and comfy civilization and go bumbling out into the wilderness. Going out onto the ocean solo magnifies that at least by 10-fold. Make it an imature age/life experience level and it goes up to 100-fold.
This logic, IMHO, is sound, Sir, agree 110%. In fact, this post puts the entire "debate" in to context, especially when, some time from now, she will re-try her sail, thanks to her ever-so-intelligent parents,:rolleyes: and makes the news again for....?!
What a shame, IMHO.:(
Holly
Green Light
06-14-2010, 14:01
I heard a report today that the family has admitted to have shot a reality show, leading up to the attempt. Sounds like trading money for common sense. Trying to find the report.
If true, this puts their decision to allow the trip in a whole different league.
I heard a report today that the family has admitted to have shot a reality show, leading up to the attempt. Sounds like trading money for common sense. Trying to find the report.
If true, this puts their decision to allow the trip in a whole different league.
YEP ,Was on Fox and Friends this am ,then I read the camera's have been filming 4 months already....so things that make ya go hmmmm
Teen Girl Sailor Close to Breaking World Solo Sailing Record
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/11/teen-girl-sailor-close-to-breaking-world-solo-sailing-record/
"................Dutch teen Laura Dekker is trying to break Watson’s record of being the youngest person to sail around the world solo. After a legal battle with the Dutch government — which initially objected to the teen making the trip — Dekker set off from Gibraltar in August 2010, when she was 14..............."