View Full Version : Here we go.....AZ vs LA the threats begin
An LA blackout on the horizon? Economic War between the states? And what will King O, Napolitano, Holder and the DoE do about it?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/19/arizona-official-threatens-cut-los-angeles-power-payback-boycott/
FOXNews.com
- May 19, 2010
Arizona Official Threatens to Cut Off Los Angeles Power as Payback for Boycott
A member of Arizona's top government utilities agency threw down the gauntlet in a letter to Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, threatening to cut off the city's power supply as retribution for the city's boycott of Arizona.
If Los Angeles wants to boycott Arizona, it had better get used to reading by candlelight.
That's the message from a member of Arizona's top government utilities agency, who threw down the gauntlet Tuesday in a letter to Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa by threatening to cut off the city's power supply as retribution.
Gary Pierce, a commissioner on the Arizona Corporation Commission, wrote the letter in response to the Los Angeles City Council's decision last week to boycott the Grand Canyon State -- in protest of its immigration law -- by suspending official travel there and ending future contracts with state businesses.
Noting that a quarter of Los Angeles' electricity comes from Arizona power plants, Pierce threatened to pull the plug if the City Council does not reconsider. He also ridiculed Villaraigosa for saying that the point of the boycott was to "send a message" by severing the "resources and ties" they share.
"I received your message; please receive mine. As a statewide elected member of the Arizona Corporation Commission overseeing Arizona's electric and water utilities, I too am keenly aware of the 'resources and ties' we share with the city of Los Angeles," Pierce wrote.
"If an economic boycott is truly what you desire, I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation."
Appearing to tap into local frustration in Arizona over the raft of boycotts and threatened boycotts from cities across the country, including Los Angeles, Pierce warned that Arizona companies are willing and ready to fight boycott with boycott.
"I am confident that Arizona's utilities would be happy to take those electrons off your hands," Pierce wrote. "If, however, you find that the City Council lacks the strength of its convictions to turn off the lights in Los Angeles and boycott Arizona power, please reconsider the wisdom of attempting to harm Arizona's economy."
Arizona has some serious leverage over Los Angeles, as well as the rest of California. The state and city get electricity from a nuclear power plant outside Phoenix, as well as from coal-fired power plants in northern Arizona and two giant hydroelectric power generators along the Colorado River.
Despite that, the Los Angeles City Council voted overwhelmingly last week to ban future business with Arizona -- a decision that could cost Arizona millions of dollars in lost contracts.
Los Angeles officials were furious with the Arizona immigration law passed last month and joined local officials in cities across the country in pushing boycotts to register their dismay. Critics say the law will lead to racial profiling and civil rights abuses.
Arizona officials have defended the law, saying the state needed to take its illegal immigration problem into its own hands.
The law requires local law enforcement to try to verify the immigration status of anyone they have contact with whom they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. It empowers them to turn over verified illegal immigrants to federal custody. The legislation explicitly prohibits screening people based solely on race or national origin.
Here's part Arizona Corporation Commission member Gary Pierce's letter to the mayor:
If an economic boycott is truly what you desire, I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation.
I am confident that Arizona’s utilities would be happy to take those electrons off your hands. If, however, you find that the City Council lacks the strength of its convictions to turn off the lights in Los Angeles and boycott Arizona power, please reconsider the wisdom of attempting to harm Arizona’s economy.
The Arizona Commission Letter: http://hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/letter-azcc-villaraigosa.pdf.pdf
spherojon
05-19-2010, 09:50
Please cut off the power Arizona. While your at it, cut off the water Nevada. LA ia a sh-t hole excuse for a city.
AZ should do it....edit: however the economic loss to the utility companies woudl be substantial and probably non sustainable.
I also liked the idea that I heard about bussing illegals to San Francisco.
I would think that if private donations are used and the illegals "volunteer" then there shouldn't be a problem. The first batch should be sent by charter bus and get dropped off right in front of city hall.
AZ should do it....edit:
however the economic loss to the utility companies would be substantial and probably non sustainable.
I am not "ecumenically power-grid infused",, but I think the power LA gets can be redirected to other more friendly users on the grid??
So could the water..
:eek::eek::eek:
How do you spell lack of leadership in Washington?
Utah Bob
05-19-2010, 10:38
How do you spell lack of leadership in Washington?
I think it starts with an O.
rubberneck
05-19-2010, 11:04
I am not "ecumenically power-grid infused",, but I think the power LA gets can be redirected to other more friendly users on the grid??
So could the water..
:eek::eek::eek:
If the utilities companies are operating at 100% of capacity and still have people willing to buy power from them than they can effectively tell LA to drop dead. If the contracts with LA is what is keeping them at or near 100% of capacity than it is an empty threat.
bandycpa
05-19-2010, 11:16
Looking at this long-term, could this mushroom into something much bigger? Civil wars have to start somewhere.
Is it conceivable that this spitting contest turns into something more?
Ret10Echo
05-19-2010, 11:22
Looking at this long-term, could this mushroom into something much bigger? Civil wars have to start somewhere.
Is it conceivable that this spitting contest turns into something more?
Don't even get into the potential for "Water Wars" out west......
Team Sergeant
05-19-2010, 11:27
Looking at this long-term, could this mushroom into something much bigger? Civil wars have to start somewhere.
Is it conceivable that this spitting contest turns into something more?
The up side is that any "violence" would not last long as the socialists don't believe in "individual" gun ownership.:munchin
I'd like to see Arizona shut the border and turn off LA lights. LA would dissolve into anarchy in a matter of hours.
Dozer523
05-19-2010, 11:59
Please cut off the power Arizona. While your at it, cut off the water Nevada. LA ia a sh-t hole excuse for a city. Watch it!
I guess you haven't made to 00:51 of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5LzCOc98E&feature=related
I LOVE LA! did you miss 02:38 too?
I LOVE LA!!!
spherojon
05-19-2010, 12:10
The up side is that any "violence" would not last long as the socialists don't believe in "individual" gun ownership.:munchin
I'd like to see Arizona shut the border and turn off LA lights. LA would dissolve into anarchy in a matter of hours.
I'd give it 15 mins after the power is off for the riots to start. All he surrounding counties of LA own and operate guns and do not like LA. Let it burn IMO.
Watch it!
I guess you haven't made to 00:51 of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5LzCOc98E&feature=related
I LOVE LA! did you miss 02:38 too?
I LOVE LA!!!
Boy, is that an old video! I saw an oil pump in it. :eek:
Pat
Peregrino
05-19-2010, 13:38
Isn't shutting off the electricity or water to a whole city like LA (something like ten million people in LA county I think?) rather extreme though?
Naaaahhhh! I read somewhere that AZ only supplies 25% of LA's power. Turning that off has the potential to be even more interesting than cutting all of it (from a technical aspect [CARVER]). Just think how much more long term damage, especially to the information infrastructure, can be done with brownouts, cascading failures, and surges as the grid attempts to adjust. :munchin
Dozer523
05-19-2010, 14:22
Boy, is that an old video! I saw an oil pump in it. :eek:
Pat Pat, If you saw an oil pump at 00:51 I'm really worried about you.
Pat, If you saw an oil pump at 00:51 I'm really worried about you.
Yup....
Pat, If you saw an oil pump at 00:51 I'm really worried about you.
Uh, well, it was clearly a visual metaphor. Yeah, that's the ticket! :D
Pat
The message is that if California, LA specifically, truly wants to boycott AZ they should also make arrangements to end the contract for power supplied by AZ. In other words, don't be hypocritical and selective on what they do and don't accept from AZ.
Gary Pierce, a commissioner on the Arizona Corporation Commission, wrote the letter in response to the Los Angeles City Council's decision last week to boycott the Grand Canyon State -- in protest of its immigration law -- by suspending official travel there and ending future contracts with state businesses.
Noting that a quarter of Los Angeles' electricity comes from Arizona power plants, Pierce threatened to pull the plug if the City Council does not reconsider. He also ridiculed Villaraigosa for saying that the point of the boycott was to "send a message" by severing the "resources and ties" they share.
"I received your message; please receive mine. As a statewide elected member of the Arizona Corporation Commission overseeing Arizona's electric and water utilities, I too am keenly aware of the 'resources and ties' we share with the city of Los Angeles," Pierce wrote.
"If an economic boycott is truly what you desire,I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation."
He didn't threaten to pull the plug, he offered to assist LA end it's hypocrisy.
Pierce already stated he doesn't have the power to outright pull the plug, and he believes LA won't be taking him up on that offer.
6.8SPC_DUMP
05-19-2010, 15:54
It's mind blowing that illegal immigrants sentenced to jail aren't deported, but, maybe the Governator can help bridge the cultural divide by reiterating his resent proposal.
Arnold: Send California prisoners to Mexico (http://rawstory.com/2010/01/arnold-send-california-prisoners-mexico/)
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger suggested California could ease its crowded prison system by sending thousands of undocumented inmates to specially built jails in Mexico.
Speaking to reporters at the Sacramento Press Club, Schwarzenegger said California could ease its strained finances by a billion dollars if 20,000 illegal immigrants currently held in the state were housed across the border.
"I think that we can do so much better in the prison system alone if we can go and take, inmates for instance, the 20,000 inmates that are illegal immigrants that are here and get them to Mexico," Schwarzenegger said.
"Think about it -- if California gives Mexico the money. Not 'Hey, you take care of them, these are your citizens'. No. Not at all.
"We pay them to build the prison down in Mexico. And then we have those undocumented immigrants down there in prison. It would half the costs to build the prison and run the prison. We could save a billion dollars right there that could go into higher education."
Schwarzenegger's remarks come as California prepares for the latest in a long line of state budget crises.
Schwarzenegger declared a fiscal emergency earlier this month, warning severe cuts were necessary to stem a 19.9-billion-dollar deficit.
California has some of the most overcrowded prisons in the United States, with an estimated 170,000 inmates housed in facilities designed for 100,000 people, according to 2007 figures.
Schwarzenegger said he believed the financial burden of California's prisons could be eased if the private sector moved into the industry.
"I think that there is no reason why we should have just state employees and public prisons," Schwarzenegger said. "Why shouldn't we have private prisons and private prisons competing with public prisons?
"I don't want to go and get rid of public prisons, not at all. It's not an attack on their labor union even though they may take it as such.
If AZ continually presses their unemployment rate and the national security implications, involving other states too, racial tensions might ease some.
Defender968
05-19-2010, 16:57
It's mind blowing that illegal immigrants sentenced to jail aren't deported, but, maybe the Governator can help bridge the cultural divide by reiterating his resent proposal.
If AZ continually presses their unemployment rate and the national security implications, involving other states too, racial tensions might ease some.
I think they aren't deported immediately because they would be back a week after being sent home, how would that be for justice. :eek:
As much as it pains me agree with Arnold I think he’s on the right track, though I wouldn't send them to Mexico, it's just too dam corrupt and they'd want us to foot the entire bill. I've said it before, China offered to house our inmates for 1K per year per man, maybe that's the way to go with illegal’s in our prison systems, if we've got to pay for their incarceration we should get to say how and where. That way a life sentence would cost us just about as much as 2 years here in the states. If the conditions suck here's an idea....don't illegally come to this country....and if you do don't commit crimes…. or you go directly to outermost Mongolia… do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars!
ZonieDiver
05-19-2010, 17:20
Isn't shutting off the electricity or water to a whole city like LA (something like ten million people in LA county I think?) rather extreme though?
No.
"- May 19, 2010
Arizona Official Threatens to Cut Off Los Angeles Power as Payback for Boycott"
Don't think of this as cutting off power so much as reducing LA's carbon footprint: ;)
I've said it before, China offered to house our inmates for 1K per year per man, maybe that's the way to go with illegal’s in our prison systems, if we've got to pay for their incarceration we should get to say how and where.
Cool!
Chinichangas :D
mojaveman
05-19-2010, 21:17
Los Angeles Mayor Anthony Villaraigosa does not by any means speak for all Californians. There are a whole lot of people here who fully support what the Arizona lawmakers are trying to do to curb illegal immigration there.
Smokin Joe
05-20-2010, 02:21
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2010/05/17/daily52.html?ana=from_rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_phoenix+%28Phoenix+Busin ess+Journal%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 5:20pm MST
LA mayor rebuffs Pierce letter
Phoenix Business Journal - by Patrick O'Grady
Los Angeles won’t be turning off its power or rejecting electricity generated in Arizona, despite a suggestion Arizona Corporation Commissioner Gary Pierce to do just that.
Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said he doesn’t intend to consider cutting power ties with Arizona, despite a letter from Pierce saying the city should boycott Arizona completely or be more constructive in talking about the differences of opinion on the state’s new immigration law.
“The mayor stands strongly behind the city council on this issue and will not respond to threats from a state which has isolated itself from the America that values freedom, liberty and basic civil rights,” according to the response from the mayor’s office.
Pierce sent a letter to Villaraigosa Tuesday that said if the city is serious about honoring its boycott, he would help them work with Arizona utilities to end contracts that give Los Angeles about 25 percent of its power.
While some media reports said Pierce threatened to cut off the power, the commissioner said he has no legal authority to do so, nor is that his intent.
Arizona has been hammered with boycotts since passage of the immigration law, which gives police broad powers in tracking down illegal immigrants. Other cities, including Seattle, Columbus, Ohio and Boston have opted to either end contracts with Arizona companies or not do business with the state.
The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power also is backing the city council’s decision, said Austin Beutner, the utility’s general manager.
“On any given day, we receive 20 to 25 percent of our power from two power plants located in Arizona: Navajo, a coal-fired plant, and Palo Verde, a nuclear plant,” he said in a statement. “We are part owner of both power plants, which are generating assets of the department. As such, nothing in the city’s resolution is inconsistent with our continuing to receive power from those LADWP-owned assets.”
Read more: LA mayor rebuffs Pierce letter - Phoenix Business Journal
POTUS,
the Attorney General of the United States E H Holder,
and the United States Secretary(czar) of Homeland Security J Napolitano
have not read the law enacted by Arizona.
You can,, here is a copy..
Warning: Be prepared to spend some time reading this piece of Arizona legislation.
It is almost as long as my phone bill.
At 17 pages, it may take all of 10 minutes to read...
This is like watching two long-time friends fighting over the same B-girl they just met in a bar after a night of heavy drinking - not a good prospect for a long-term arrangement for anybody and a whole lot of reasons why it shouldn't be happening.
And so it goes...:(
Richard's $.02 :munchin
ZonieDiver
05-20-2010, 11:53
LA's, and California's, hypocrisy knows no bounds. In 1935-36, LA sent police officers to the Arizona-California state line to turn back the "transients":
Along California's hundreds of miles of land frontier and on the home front in this city, Los Angeles police battled today to turn back hordes of jobless, penniless transients, who are said to have been pouring into this sunny clime from the wintery east at the rate of 6,000 to 7,000 a month.
Police Chief C. A. Woolard at Tucson acted when his men arrested 22 of the homeless men. He asked Gov. B. B. Moeur to call out troops "to stop California from dumping hoboes in Arizona."
Whether the Tempe physician, who rose to the office of Governor of the neighboring State, would take this militaristic step was a question. But calling out the guard is no new experience for Governor Moeur. The last time he did it was to stop the Government Reclamation Service from constructing the Parker Dam, a part of the Los Angeles aqueduct system. The troops responded nobly, rushing to the river bank and then creating an "Arizona navy" with a couple of scows to patrol the water front. Today the dam is rapidly proceeding toward completion with the Arizona warriors back in their homes and possibly waiting for the new call to arms.
I wonder if Gov Brewer will follow in Gov Moeur's footsteps?
Nellie Mae Trent Bush was born in Missouri in 1888, but came to Mesa, Arizona in 1893. In the 1930s, Nellie Bush received national recognition as "Admiral of Arizona's Navy" during the Parker Dam controversy. When Governor B. B. Moeur authorized National Guard troops to halt construction on the Parker Dam, he authorized Joe and Nellie Bush to bring the troops across the Colorado River.
http://newdeal.feri.org/tolan/tol09.htm
The Reaper
05-21-2010, 01:12
I wonder who sets the electric rates for the power sent to LA, and how quickly they could raise them?
TR
Last hard class
05-21-2010, 01:23
I wonder who sets the electric rates for the power sent to LA, and how quickly they could raise them?
TR
Los Angeles DWP owns 5% of the Nuclear plant in Phoenix and 21% of the coal burning plant in Navajo. Legally, it would be very difficult for Arizona to cut the power off to Los Angeles.
Besides, if you cut off our power we will all just move to our winter homes..... in Arizona:D
Smokin Joe
05-21-2010, 01:25
Los Angeles DWP owns 5% of the Nuclear plant in Phoenix and 21% of the coal burning plant in Navajo. Legally, it would be very difficult for Arizona to cut the power off to Los Angeles.
Besides, if you cut off our power we will all just move to our winter homes..... in Arizona:D
Before or after LA imploded?
Last hard class
05-21-2010, 01:40
Before or after LA imploded?
I have seen this city burn before. A smart E&E route plan avoids the appliance stores. They are the first to get looted.;)
Also, thanks to this board, I have an up to date bug out bag. ( That is on the up and up. It's for earthquakes, not war between the states)
Los Angeles DWP owns 5% of the Nuclear plant in Phoenix and 21% of the coal burning plant in Navajo. Legally, it would be very difficult for Arizona to cut the power off to Los Angeles.
I'm not sure the percentage of the power plant output that LA uses, but I'm guessing it far exceeds their ownership percentage. If that's accurate, AZ should renegotiate to only provide 5% of the output of Palo Verde and 21% of the Navajo plant. Any power above and beyond those amounts should be sold at a rate to make up for the theoretical potential loss to AZ businesses from LA's boycott.
While we're at it, the federal government should cut all federal law enforcement grants and social grants/funding to any sanctuary city. If they want to hamper enforcement of federal law and increase the tax burden, they should do it on their own state's/city's dime. This crap would stop really quick.
God bless AZ for doing what needed to be done a long time ago. Can't wait till I have the opportunity to move back there!
Dozer523
05-21-2010, 06:45
LA's, and California's, hypocrisy knows no bounds. In 1935-36, LA sent police officers to the Arizona-California state line to turn back the "transients":
I wonder if Gov Brewer will follow in Gov Moeur's footsteps?
I read somewhere that the CA boarder guards on I-10 are confiscating SCUBA tanks coming in from AZ.
Something about not wanting to endanger the sea-life with nasty dusty AZ air or pollute the shoreline with those sweaty people attached to the tanks.
How long can we go without lights?
How long can you tread water? 01:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tt_YpvwrFg
...the CA boarder guards...
Those left coast kennel cops can be some tough cookies! :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Dozer523
05-21-2010, 07:44
Those left coast kennel cops can be some tough cookies! :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin I'm not going to correct it, so bite me:D
Ever made that crossing, BTW? Lazy asses hardly wag (I mean wave) as you go through.
In case anyone is interested, it looks like there are some events being put together in support of the new law.
http://standwitharizona.org/
http://phoenixrally.com/
Last hard class
05-21-2010, 09:05
I'm not sure the percentage of the power plant output that LA uses, but I'm guessing it far exceeds their ownership percentage. If that's accurate, AZ should renegotiate to only provide 5% of the output of Palo Verde and 21% of the Navajo plant. Any power above and beyond those amounts should be sold at a rate to make up for the theoretical potential loss to AZ businesses from LA's boycott.
Ironically, since you cannot store electricity, we often sell the unused capaciity from the grid back to Arizona.
While we're at it, the federal government should cut all federal law enforcement grants and social grants/funding to any sanctuary city. If they want to hamper enforcement of federal law and increase the tax burden, they should do it on their own state's/city's dime. This crap would stop really quick.
I concur.
However IMO any discussion on what to do is moot until we secure the borders. If you throw them out they just come back. If you cut any kind of deal for even some the 20 million already here you send the message for everyone else to come on up. The Arizona law keeps the issue front and center. Without the controversy, this would not have been a nationwide mid term election issue. I think government is going to be forced to deal with this sooner now than later. I am willing to pay more for my electricity if it speeds up the process.
LHC
ZonieDiver
05-21-2010, 09:56
Los Angeles DWP owns 5% of the Nuclear plant in Phoenix and 21% of the coal burning plant in Navajo. Legally, it would be very difficult for Arizona to cut the power off to Los Angeles.
Besides, if you cut off our power we will all just move to our winter homes..... in Arizona:D
We welcome "refugees" from the People's Republic of Kalifornia here in Arizona! :D
ZonieDiver
05-21-2010, 10:01
I read somewhere that the CA boarder guards on I-10 are confiscating SCUBA tanks coming in from AZ. Something about not wanting to endanger the sea-life with nasty dusty AZ air or pollute the shoreline with those sweaty people attached to the tanks.
How long can we go without lights?
How long can you tread water? 01:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tt_YpvwrFg
Thank goodness I cached some scuba tanks and equipment with my daughter in the "free zone" in San Diego. (The SD city council did NOT vote to "boycott" Arizona - just a resolution against SB 1070. They know what side their bread is buttered on...)
We just got back from SE Arizona where we’re in the process of buying land a few miles east of Sierra Vista. The consensus of the locals seems to be to close the checkpoints and put the BP agents on the actual border. The local LEOs would take care of anyone that they miss.
From what I saw, I agree with them. Each CP has 6 to 8 guys sitting around picking their nose with one or two actually asking US citizens if they are US citizens.
Also, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon* to figure out how to bypass the CPs.
Pat
* I heard someone say this while we were in Arizona.
spherojon
05-21-2010, 10:36
My favorite radio broadcast, John and Ken. Here is a link to podcast's, worth a listen IMHO.
http://www.kfiam640.com/common/podcast/single_page.html?podcast=JohnandKen
Here is there web page on KFI.
http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/jk2010.html
Edit: They are showing support for Arizona by going to AZ and broadcasting from there.
Same theme different direction.
Ariz. gov.: Send Guard choppers from other states
May 21 03:49 PM US/Eastern
PHOENIX (AP) - Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer is asking President Barack Obama to reallocate National Guard helicopters from other states to help Arizona secure its border with Mexico.
Brewer made the request in a letter to Obama dated Thursday and released Friday.
She says Arizona only has four OH-58 Kiowa helicopters available for border missions because some choppers are deployed overseas and others are reserved for training missions.
Brewer requests that additional helicopters be freed up from training missions or taken from other states and assigned to the southwestern border.
The governor acknowledges her request may be unpopular with other governors, but she says she believes there are legitimate national interests in sending more aircraft to Arizona.
Heh, that's good.