View Full Version : no prior service 18x contracts
I just talked to a recruiter today and I was told that they are not currently offering 18x contracts to prior service. He told me that I would need to go through AIT as a 18b, volunteer for airborne, then volunteer for SF.
After looking through the PT charts that I had him print up it looks like I all ready meet the minimum requirements, I think they should be raised I haven't worked out seriously in 6 years. Regardless though I still want too hit 300 in the 18- 21 group before I put on a uniform; there's no half ass~ing something like this.
Even though I took my last asvab 11 years ago I guess it carries over and he told me with an overall of 87 I should be fine.
Anyway, do you think that I should just sign up for infantry and go that route once I'm back in shape or should I wait for 18x to open back up? I'm worried that if there are not enough slots open that I may not be allowed into airborne or SOPC and end up stuck with infantry. If there are no 18x contracts available then I can only assume those courses are packed full.
Ambush Master
05-13-2010, 17:31
Go Rep-63 with the Guard!! Several on here are now "Active" after that route!!
blue02hd
05-13-2010, 17:34
I'm worried that if there are not enough slots open that I may not be allowed into airborne or SOPC and end up stuck with infantry.
You just said all I needed to hear. IMHO we don't need you. If you think you are above the Infantry, then save yourself alot of pain and SWC time wasted and look towards the Navy BUDS program.
Ever heard of "EARNING" it?
I'm not above anything. I've worked 16 hour shifts 7 days a week stacking 35lb fish carts in a blast freezer for minimum wage. If anything I often find myself putting others above me. But yes it would be nice to at least get a shot and that's all I meant.
Nukeem, the two QP who just addressed you were respectful; watch your tone here!!!
In the interest of the board and in support of one of the basic tenet of this forum; we will not be answering any of the questions you have presented. All of your questions have been answered numerous times, by all of us.
We suggest that you employ your considerable reasoning ability and use the search button to pursue your goals first. In the rare event, that an answer to prior service contracts, enlistment requirements, test scores and other assorted details have not been address; then by all means ask your question.
We also suggest that prior to starting new threads, posting comment in established threads, or becoming involved generally, to spend a substantial amount of time reading past and current discussions. So when you do inject your point of view, question, humor, sarcastic wit, it will be well placed, and a welcomed, seamless addition to the board.
In the mean time, the search button is your friend.
Utah Bob
05-13-2010, 18:55
Oh yeah, I'd rather stack fish carts than get "stuck" with the Infantry. Guess how most of the QPs here started out?
Read more.
Post less.
I signed up as an 18X, with all the hopes and dreams everyone else does. I can be a Special Forces soldier from a civilian! Sign me up!!!
Well, was I crushed right after basic when I didn't make it, of course because I didn't really know what was going on yet.
I've spent 5 years in the "Regular Army" and I've learned a lot of information. Had I somehow made it straight to being an 18-series, I still would have had so much to learn but THOUGHT I KNEW it all.
Especially if you are a young kid, you need to get some time in the Army and learn what it is all about. Special Forces is not what you see in the movies, it is so much more. They are not always shooting up the bad guys. If you know any SF Soldiers, you already know this. If not, take some time and read a couple books (I'd recommend "Horse Soldiers" or "The Only Thing Worth Dying For"). A little more research can tell you the entirety of the SF mission, not what you think or want it to be.
My opinion is to do some regular time. I have learned so much from my Team Leaders, Squad Leaders and Platoon Sergeants that is just invaluable to my being a soldier. Also, my regular time has made me grow up and realize that you have to work and earn everything you get.
In short, do some time, learn who you really are, research what SF really is then make your final decision.
That's all for now and thanks for your time,
-SSG Bearor
...is so utterly and completely true.
Your time before SF, your leadership experience, your ability to turn shit into diamonds, and your demonstrated commitment to serving is a large part of what makes you valuable to Special Forces, not your ability to pass the Q-course. Guess what? Everybody with a tab does that. Welcome to step one.
SSG Bear that was fuckin' eloquent.
I think personal attributes play a greater role in determining who is "fit" for SF than a hard requirement for some conventional time. Unfortunately there is no way to really access those attributes so some time serving in convential units can refine a soldier before being put into the SF training cycle. That said, I served with a lot of Viet Nam and post VN SF babies and just like the none-SF babies, some were good, some bad and some flat out exemplary. I think if the FAGs (Former Action Guys) here think back they also served with a bunch of great SF Babies. Sure they had their weaknesses but they knew SF ops inside and out. Perhaps they weren't interested in Soldier of the month and were not prone to "brace" when talking to a senior NCO but they knew and lived their MOS's which was more important to me. The staff is important but a lot of folks forget the A-Team is where the action is. I was down-right astounded when I heard a CSM who came from a long career in convetional units say to a team-guy "you been hiding out under a rucksack too long" indicating the guy had been shaming for years. Obviously that CSM should have come to SF a bit sooner!
MVP
I signed up as an 18X, with all the hopes and dreams everyone else does. I can be a Special Forces soldier from a civilian! Sign me up!!!
Well, was I crushed right after basic when I didn't make it, of course because I didn't really know what was going on yet.
I've spent 5 years in the "Regular Army" and I've learned a lot of information. Had I somehow made it straight to being an 18-series, I still would have had so much to learn but THOUGHT I KNEW it all.
Especially if you are a young kid, you need to get some time in the Army and learn what it is all about. Special Forces is not what you see in the movies, it is so much more. They are not always shooting up the bad guys. If you know any SF Soldiers, you already know this. If not, take some time and read a couple books (I'd recommend "Horse Soldiers" or "The Only Thing Worth Dying For"). A little more research can tell you the entirety of the SF mission, not what you think or want it to be.
My opinion is to do some regular time. I have learned so much from my Team Leaders, Squad Leaders and Platoon Sergeants that is just invaluable to my being a soldier. Also, my regular time has made me grow up and realize that you have to work and earn everything you get.
In short, do some time, learn who you really are, research what SF really is then make your final decision.
That's all for now and thanks for your time,
-SSG Bearor
Your right, I do need to do some time first before hand and find out if it's what I really want.
TBH I would rather spend more time helping people rebuild as opposed too DA missions, which is the main reason why I want to join the SF. I'm sure that help is not all way's wanted or effective but it's important that it's there.
I know it's nothing like the movies, the reality is that an opposing force is more than likely composed primarily of conscript's, people who have no other means of sustaining themselves or even people who have been manipulated in believing in something border-line delusional. There are no "bad guy's" there are only shades of gray with few exceptions. There is nothing glamorous about war.
Irishsquid
06-06-2010, 21:43
Your right, I do need to do some time first before hand and find out if it's what I really want.
TBH I would rather spend more time helping people rebuild as opposed too DA missions, which is the main reason why I want to join the SF. I'm sure that help is not all way's wanted or effective but it's important that it's there.
Try Civil Affairs? Just a thought...you don't have to be 11B to go to SFAS...
You just have to make sure that whatever job you do, you have to prove to your CoC that you deserve the opportunity.
The Reaper
06-07-2010, 05:07
Your right, I do need to do some time first before hand and find out if it's what I really want.
TBH I would rather spend more time helping people rebuild as opposed too DA missions, which is the main reason why I want to join the SF. I'm sure that help is not all way's wanted or effective but it's important that it's there.
I know it's nothing like the movies, the reality is that an opposing force is more than likely composed primarily of conscript's, people who have no other means of sustaining themselves or even people who have been manipulated in believing in something border-line delusional. There are no "bad guy's" there are only shades of gray with few exceptions. There is nothing glamorous about war.
I disagree with most of your comments.
BTW, I would save the hypothesizing about our opponents till you have seen them.
TR
turboprop
06-07-2010, 17:53
The problem with a lot of soldiers is that they think that their past accomplishments, accolades, etc. stay relevant forever. There is definitely a time for basking in the glory of the past, but it isn't when you are on active duty. The best soldiers, without fail, have completely bought into the mindset that the only thing that matters is what you've done today. SF has enough team room heroes.
Bear-how much would your experiences be worth stacked against what you would have learned if you had made it to SF the first try? Maybe you wouldn't be so sure that not making it was the best thing that could have happened to you 3-4 deployments with an ODA later. You may have even picked up some institutional training along the way too. The point is, you didn't make it, doesn't matter why, but some other guys did, ran with it, and were successful. Don't come to a board about SF and expect digital high fives from those that did.
The SFQC is not some magical gate that makes you a SME on all things SF, and it damn sure isn't the last time you will learn how to be an SF soldier in your career. The SFQC produces entry level SF soldiers. ODAs and specifically the combination of mentorship and teaching oneself produce competent SF soldiers. Not the 82nd, 3rd ID, the couch, or wherever you came from.
For the SF candidates, it is no secret how to be successful once you get to a team, and it has nothing at all to do with where you came from. Put in the hours, PT, shooting, MOS proficiency, team training..., and surprise, you will be successful. If you show up thinking that wherever you were 1-2 years earlier is going to impress anyone, or take out the trash, or fill the fridge with the beer you owe, you are sorely mistaken.
Sorry for the rant, anytime the 18x things rears its head I feel the need to defend it. Not for the turds, and there were some, but for the awesome guys that I was completely honored to serve with. There are a lot of guys that grew up X-ray that wouldn't change a thing.
Irishsquid
06-07-2010, 22:36
The problem with a lot of soldiers is that they think that their past accomplishments, accolades, etc. stay relevant forever.
When I first came to the Non-qual program at 20th Group, someone told me something that really put it in perspective for me.
"Son, you may have been shit-hot where you came from, and that's why you are here...but just remember...everyone else here is shit-hot, too, and you'll have to work hard just to be average." That's a freakin' eye-opener.
I understand what you're saying, and agree with some of it. This is definitely an issue that has been discussed ad naeuseum in team rooms and around humvee hoods for the past decade, and we're unlikely to solve it here, but let me just throw a few things out there.
As far as "basking in the glory of the past" I agree with you 100%. There are few things worse than some guy who sits in the teamroom and talks about how cool he was "back then," when the question is "what have you done lately?" Those types will hurt a team badly, and need to have a fire lit under their asses.
What I was trying to say in my reply to Bear was this: The guys who I saw who had had strong service prior to getting into SF were (in general) faster in getting up to speed with team SOPs, faster in making a real contribution to how the team operates, could do more with less, and knew how the army worked and where to direct fire to have maximum effect. They were leaders sooner and took charge easier; they didn't have to figure out a leadership style, they generally already had one.
In addition, prior service gave a better foundation to establish rapport when working with regular army forces. When my 18B (also ex-82nd) and I went to conduct operations with a battalion from the 82nd, we could bullshit with the CSM and S-3 about people we both knew from divsion. It built rapport faster (along with us having good intel and a good operational plan!) and they felt better with us. It contributed to several successful missions and a happy SOTF.
I don't mean to knock 18X soldiers. They are great Americans and great soldiers. I worked with several 18X guys that I would put up against anyone in SF for intelligence, fitness, courage, and overall "team-guy-ness." I thought and think they are a great contribution to SF. (I also worked with less than stellar prior service guys, so there are no hard and fast rules here)
My opinion and experience (such as it is) is that IN GENERAL prior service guys were quicker on the uptake than SF baby types. The experience that prior service guys bring gets molded and shaped in the Q, and they come out with more tools in the toolbox than the average 18X. That's why I responded the way I did to Bear.
Once everyone's been on them team for a few years, of course, things get a lot more equal, as you pointed out.