newbie sniper.

[PriestFoxley]

So I decided to learn the ins and outs of Mil-dot reticles, and considering my unit is not about to send me to sniper school, I decided to learn it myself.

I picked up a remington 700 VTR and a few other things, based on what I could afford, what works, and as cheesy as it sounds, what I heard you guys use. Most of it is easy. A remington 700 is a civvie M24, a carl ziess 4.5-12 mildot scope stands in for a leupold mark 4 fixed ten power. (Local dealers told me they don't exist anymore, so I just left the CZ set to ten.) A cheap spotting scope saves some time, and all I needed was a notebook and a bunch of .308 that didn't come from walmart.

I can zero to 100 meters, just like anyone. I can dope a shot on a known distance target, but thats apparently kids stuff as well. what I CAN'T do, is visually estimate range on unknown distance targets. No practice, you see. I figured I would pick up a laser rangefinder, and that would help me eyeball things, but the first one I bought sort of screwed me over. It said it worked to 1000 yards, but it wouldn't return off anything over 200.

I hear you screaming. "Stupid kid, never buy cheap shit, it only breaks at the worst time, buy quality!" I know. But articles never tell you what sort of rangefinders SF guys use, just rifles, scopes, and ammo.

What rangefinders do you guys use?


Next question. Whats a good shot? Between all the rifles, ammo, and technical garbage I am reading, I understand that some scoped guns are different. I benched my rifle, held really still, and can reliably put five shots into an inch at a 100m. But again, thats kids stuff. Sooner or later my unit will be getting DMRs, and when they ask who has experience, I want to be able to raise my hand and say something impressive enough to get handed one. I figured if I could reliably hit a torso at 600m that would qualify, but thats supposed to be the extreme range for my AR. I know I will just keep trying new stuff until I suck, then practice till I don't. What sort of ranges are designated marksmen and snipers supposed to be able to hit?

Thanks for your time.

[rdret1]

So I decided to learn the ins and outs of Mil-dot reticles, and considering my unit is not about to send me to sniper school, I decided to learn it myself.

I picked up a remington 700 VTR and a few other things, based on what I could afford, what works, and as cheesy as it sounds, what I heard you guys use. Most of it is easy. A remington 700 is a civvie M24, a carl ziess 4.5-12 mildot scope stands in for a leupold mark 4 fixed ten power. (Local dealers told me they don't exist anymore, so I just left the CZ set to ten.) A cheap spotting scope saves some time, and all I needed was a notebook and a bunch of .308 that didn't come from walmart.

I can zero to 100 meters, just like anyone. I can dope a shot on a known distance target, but thats apparently kids stuff as well. what I CAN'T do, is visually estimate range on unknown distance targets. No practice, you see. I figured I would pick up a laser rangefinder, and that would help me eyeball things, but the first one I bought sort of screwed me over. It said it worked to 1000 yards, but it wouldn't return off anything over 200.

I hear you screaming. "Stupid kid, never buy cheap shit, it only breaks at the worst time, buy quality!" I know. But articles never tell you what sort of rangefinders SF guys use, just rifles, scopes, and ammo.

What rangefinders do you guys use?


Next question. Whats a good shot? Between all the rifles, ammo, and technical garbage I am reading, I understand that some scoped guns are different. I benched my rifle, held really still, and can reliably put five shots into an inch at a 100m. But again, thats kids stuff. Sooner or later my unit will be getting DMRs, and when they ask who has experience, I want to be able to raise my hand and say something impressive enough to get handed one. I figured if I could reliably hit a torso at 600m that would qualify, but thats supposed to be the extreme range for my AR. I know I will just keep trying new stuff until I suck, then practice till I don't. What sort of ranges are designated marksmen and snipers supposed to be able to hit?

Thanks for your time.

The first thing you need to do is read. There are numerous books besides FM's. Maj. Plaster's "Ultimate Sniper" is a good reference. A Rem. 700 is not a "Civvie M24." That is simply the action most sniper rifles are based on. You have not accounted for the barrel, the stock, and the work done to true them all and mate them into an accurate system.

The minimum accuracy you will want to look for is 1MOA. This will be approximately 1" at 100 yrds. Many makers these days guarantee 1/2 MOA for the rifle. This does not take into account the skill, or lack of, of the shooter. That minimum accuracy I was talking about is not benched. You need to fire that from position, prone supported at least.

Try to use Match ammunition. Those bought at Wally World for hunting will not be loaded consistently enough to use for these purposes.

A good way to practice judging unknown distance is take some standard measurements in your area. How far apart are the telephone poles, what is the average distance block to block on the streets. Start judging how things look at these distances, like a person walking, a car, etc. Learn how to take the way that distance looks, then fold it over a couple of times. For example, something that appears to be two or three football fields away, thus around three hundred yards. Then learn how to use the mildots for judging distance. A rangefinder is just a handy tool to use. If they break or the batteries die, they are useless and you need to be able to do it the old fashioned way.

[koz]

A remington 700 is a civvie M24, a carl ziess 4.5-12 mildot scope stands in for a leupold mark 4 fixed ten power. (Local dealers told me they don't exist anymore, so I just left the CZ set to ten.)

Thanks for your time.

Leupold Mark 4 10x40mm LR M3 (http://leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-lrt-riflescopes/mark-4-10x40mm-lrt-m3/) I guess you should tell you Leupold that your local dealer said they don't make this anymore.... :p

[craigepo]

What rangefinders do you guys use?



1 mil = 1 meter @ 1000 meters

[LR27]

What sort of ranges are designated marksmen and snipers supposed to be able to hit?
With a 7.62mm weapon system, Snipers shoot out to 800m and beyond, DM's usually shoot out to 600m.

Before you get ahead of yourself, pick up a copy of FM 23-10 and start reading. There is a hell of a lot more to being a Sniper than just long-range marksmanship. If you're just looking to become a DM, read the FM 23-10 and FM 3-22.9 and focus on your fundamentals: steady position, sight picture, breathing, and trigger squeeze.

[Paslode]

Well....For me it's a Rem 700 LTR. I read a lot, asked some questions and I received some tips.

Hand loads, a ballistics calculator, a chrony and lots of practice was the advice. Due to all that advice I received (and some work on my part), I finally put 5 rounds in a quarter sized area at 412 yds on a windy day and my scope dope was perfect during deer season.

RDret1 makes a good point on the Ultimate Sniper Book for reference, it's how I figured out the mil-dot. Secondly if you search, there are numerous threads on PS.com regarding scopes, loads and and stuff on this forum, at your finger tips from some folks that know how to make it all function as one.

[ZonieDiver]

I'm not sure why this thread made this pop into my FOG'ed mind, but it did.

He was just a newbie sniper,
And he surely shook with fright,
As he adjusted his 'spensive Leupold scope,
And ensured his ammo's ballistics were just right…
His shot group fit inside a quarter,
But only at the 100 meter range,
And he ain’t gonna snipe no more.
Gory, gory what a hell of a way to shoot,
Gory, gory what a hell of a way to shoot,
Gory, gory what a hell of a way to shoot,
And he ain’t gonna snipe no more.

With apologies to Airborne School

[Gene Econ]

So I decided to learn the ins and outs of Mil-dot reticles, and considering my unit is not about to send me to sniper school, I decided to learn it myself.

I picked up a remington 700 VTR and a few other things, based on what I could afford, what works, and as cheesy as it sounds, what I heard you guys use. Most of it is easy. A remington 700 is a civvie M24, a carl ziess 4.5-12 mildot scope stands in for a leupold mark 4 fixed ten power. (Local dealers told me they don't exist anymore, so I just left the CZ set to ten.) A cheap spotting scope saves some time, and all I needed was a notebook and a bunch of .308 that didn't come from walmart.

I can zero to 100 meters, just like anyone. I can dope a shot on a known distance target, but thats apparently kids stuff as well. what I CAN'T do, is visually estimate range on unknown distance targets. But articles never tell you what sort of rangefinders SF guys use, just rifles, scopes, and ammo.

Next question. Whats a good shot?

Thanks for your time.

PF:

You have good enough equipment. Just use good ammo for the times you really want to see performance.

RDRET1 gave you some excellent advice about learning to judge distance by eye. I would extend it into different types of terrain as your brain perceives distances differently between say looking down a street or trail through the woods and looking across a expanse of desert or water.

Make some reduced size targets and use them to assist you in training your eyes to see first what they look like in relation to your reticle and second to train your eyes to discern 1/10th of a mil increments. The mil dot is being replaced by the TMR which is easier to use in range estimation while retaining the same mil relation formula.

No information on laser range finders being used by Army Snipers? Perhaps they aren't used? If so, understand why. You already answered part of that question but the other part or parts you haven't yet come to grips with.

Why a ballistics calculator? This is an indicator to me that you lack a practical understanding of trajectories -- thus danger space -- and incremental changes in elevation that accompany both. This one is the easiest of all technical issues to both understand and apply -- without being dependent on a ballistics calculator. Just note I said 'practical'.

Precision shooters normally dope winds, not shots.

Concerning what a good shot is....I will answer that one for you.

A good shot is one that went to your call.

An effective shot is the one that killed an enemy or game animal.

You can be good and not effective and effective without being good. If you want to be top notch, you will be both.

Gene

[regular guy]

The guys already have given you exceptional pointers on where to gather your knowledge, but I have a few things I want to plus you up on.

Ultimate Sniper is God's gift. I have it in place for 'BRM' (not Basic Rifle Marksmanship :eek:) so when I take my morning glory I thumb through a couple pages. I have read it cover to cover a coupe time but with the amount of information available in that book it is easy to forget or miss something. Several friends refer to it as 'The Bible' and at the risk of sounding sacrilegious, I am inclined to agree.

Another thing that guys get hemmed up on is the use of laser range finders. Unless I have a good backstop within a meter of the area I am lasing, I won't use one. When you start reading 'The Bible', you notice that he hits on the use of range cards similar to the ones you would use for 240's. That is the time to use your range finder, when you are drawing up your range card. It all comes back to the basics. Use terrain association from your map (given you know your present location, I hope you do), section and re-section, and your other map reading skills. There is a reason that for any selection that you go to (scout/sniper for instance) pushes map reading and land nav so hard. Because it is the basic go to tool for so many other reasons than to find your way in the woods.

I can tell you another trick me and the dudes used to use in Iraq to solve the unknown variable of how big your target is. As a previous QP stated, 1 mil is 1 meter @ 1K meters. The variable is how big IS your target? The average male is 68", but that is what it is: and average. Use your environment. Is there a Texas barrier near the target? Those are 80" if I recall. That is a fixed variable that is not subject to change. So, if a 80" barrier is 1 mil in your scope, and you know that 1 mil is 1 meter at 1000 meter, convert the inches to meters and do some math. Then your dope book (or a smart one would have a card) will tell you how much to come up. Use the environment.

The role as a DM as opposed to a sniper is much different. The only constant is the shooting portion. Every single time I filled a role as a DM I did not have the time to set up a range card, lase targets, find a good hide, etc. I had to rapidly engage threats. My training in 'stress shoots' played a pivotal role. Train to rapidly asses your targets, identify the range, and engage in quick succession. Train shooting from awkward stances. You will find that you will almost never shoot from the prone or benchrest. Make a piece of plywood that is way too high to shoot from the knee, but way too low to shoot from standing. Practice off of that more than anything.

The study of sniper tactics will enable you though. Because many times, you are working as a counter-sniper. You need to understand where the threats would logically come from. If you were to attack your patrol, where would you shoot from? Study sniper tactics not so much for your own tactical application, but to help you engage those threats that work with that manner.

Spend the $60 bucks.

One other thing I forgot is make a sand sock. You can read about it and the use in the book.