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Richard
05-08-2010, 08:25
And so it goes... :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin

Medals For 'Courageous Restraint' Plan Get Mixed Review From Troops
Sara Carter, WashEx, 7 May 2010

A proposal to grant medals for "courageous restraint" to troops in Afghanistan who avoid deadly force at a risk to themselves has generated concern among U.S. soldiers and experts who worry it could embolden enemy fighters and confuse friendly forces.

Lt. Col. Edward Sholtis, a spokesman for Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, who commands NATO forces in Afghanistan, said that no final decision has been made on the award, which is the brainchild of British Maj. Gen. Nick Carter.

"The idea is being reviewed at Headquarters ISAF," Sholtis said. "The idea is consistent with our approach. Our young men and women display remarkable courage every day, including situations where they refrain from using lethal force, even at risk to themselves, in order to prevent possible harm to civilians. ... That restraint is an act of discipline and courage not much different than those seen in combat actions."

However, professor Jeffrey F. Addicott, a former senior legal adviser to the Green Berets and director of the Center for Terrorism Law at St. Mary's University School of Law in San Antonio, said "It's an absolutely outrageous proposal to our fighting men.

"The implication of this award is that we do not engage in war fighting that is appropriate," Addicott said. "They're sending a chilling message to our troops that we are not complying with the law of armed conflict. It's a propaganda victory for our enemies."

Sholtis disputed that the award would limit troops' ability in the battlefield.

"We absolutely support the right of our forces to defend themselves," he said. "Valuing restraint in a potentially dangerous situation is not the same thing as denying troops the right to employ lethal force when they determine that it is necessary."

The medals proposal is consistent with NATO rules of engagement aimed at reducing civilian casualties in Afghanistan as a way to win the support of the populace. But some soldiers say rewarding "restraint" while risking their own lives is a troubling concept.

The directives "are confusing and the mixed messages from command is making it more difficult for us to defend ourselves," said a U.S. Army soldier in Afghanistan.

A U.S. Marine captain who has served in Iraq, said that he understands the intentions of the award but believes "it's just a bad idea." He said, "They teach us not to second-guess our decisions in dangerous situations. When people second-guess themselves they can be putting lives at risk."

Some soldiers shrugged at the proposal. "It's good, but just like with valorous medals, guys are going to do the right thing because it is the right thing," said Army Lt. Joseph Cooper said. "I think our year in Maiwand [Afghanistan] has shown that in frightening and confusing moments the U.S. soldier will consistently make the right choice time after time."

But other soldiers saw the medal proposal as a reinforcement of troubling rules of engagement. "Unfortunately, we are being reduced to a police force," said another U.S. soldier. "There are troops that never leave Bagram or Kandahar airfield. ... Maybe if they left us all on base and never sent us out to confront the enemy, we could all be honored [for] valor."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/world/Medal-for-_courageous-restraint_-plan-get-mixed-review-from-troops-93007014.html#ixzz0nLdgd8e3

dr. mabuse
05-08-2010, 09:30
*

Dozer523
05-08-2010, 10:20
This one? Little Lady. Weeeeelllll I got that one driving down the road in Jalalabad. Seems I heard a popping noise and made the courageous decision not to shoot everything coming toward me as we determined the maximum speed of an up-armored in heavy traffic.
Oh wait, no . . . that time we got all the MarSof kicked out of Afghanistan.
Oh I remember! We got it

waiting for the drugs to take effect . . . oh there weeeeee gooooooooo

Utah Bob
05-08-2010, 10:54
Is there a civilian version of the medal? I restrain myself daily.:D

alright4u
05-08-2010, 14:12
Is there a civilian version of the medal? I restrain myself daily.:D

I gave up a cigar and two martinis today.

Utah Bob
05-08-2010, 15:20
I havent deployed since I signed up this last time. Do I qualify for the medal?

No. It goes to the guy who did not cut your orders.;)

kgoerz
05-08-2010, 15:23
Absolutely disgusting. Everything a Warrior should not be. My proposal for an Award is for Violence, Bloodshed, Aggression and then more Bloodshed.

alright4u
05-08-2010, 16:09
No. It goes to the guy who did not cut your orders.;)

Thanks for the laugh. With the flood here in Nashville, and; it missed me, I worry about Blitz and others. SF always had humor.

Fonzy
05-09-2010, 21:21
The only thing I can think of after reading this is "facepalm"

Sgt Fonzy

konaman
05-10-2010, 00:39
Just the fact that this award has even been considered goes to show exactly where our military is going, we are moving from a "here to fight" military to a "here to hold your hands and inflict no bodly harm or casualties of war" military. This is utterly disgusting and personally infuriates me, I joined the military with the hopes that I would be in the best possible unit with outstanding leadership, not wondering if I would be charged with some type of crime for defending myself or any of my commrades. Let me ask one thing, If you were to "restrain" yourself due to the fact that civilian lives may be lost, and in that process one of your fellow soldiers were to get hurt or die, what type of award would you be put in for? I understand that winning over the local populace in any theater of war is a huge victory and a major step in the process, but ask yourself why are these civilians in the same place at the same time as these fighters. The civilian population know when these attacks will happen and decide to be in the area or not. The act of "restraint" has been around for a long time. Many of you may know it as having a little "tactical patience." Maybe these soldiers are using a little tactical patience in order to let the situation develop so they can exploit it as much as possible.These top commanders just want to put a new title on it and say the restraint is due to the possible loss of civilian life. Just my 0.2 cents.

RED6A

Irishsquid
05-10-2010, 00:47
Is there a civilian version of the medal? I restrain myself daily.:D

Three years as an IT geek CTR, and I haven't killed any coworkers yet...does that count?


Dude, you were in Iraq? Is it anything like Call of Duty? Did you get shot at? Was it hot? Did you get medals?

Green Light
05-10-2010, 14:59
You just have to sit there and shake your head. :(

Box
05-10-2010, 20:54
I keep waiting for a munchkin to jump out in front of me and tell me to follow the yellow brick road........


What makes a king out of a slave? Courage! What makes the flag on the mast to wave? Courage! What makes the elephant charge his tusk in the misty mist, or the dusky dusk? What makes the muskrat guard his musk? Courage! What makes the sphinx the seventh wonder? Courage! What makes the dawn come up like thunder? Courage! What makes the Hottentot so hot? What puts the "ape" in apricot? What have they got that I ain't got?



......courage.

AngelsSix
05-10-2010, 21:37
I haven't shot anyone in the 'Hurst at the traffic circle lately....:lifter Do I get one?:D

mangler
05-10-2010, 22:30
Only good thing about this is it was originated within NATO not by our chain of command. Instead of trading bullets with bullets we'll just give them poppies to plant in trade of their bullets.

BlackHills
05-12-2010, 15:00
I can see one benefit to this medal......it tells you whom to avoid.

Utah Bob
05-13-2010, 09:04
If, God forbid it's ever approved,I can't imagine anyone worth his MREs would ever wear one.

Perhaps they could just award a "P" device for the campaign medal.:rolleyes:

alright4u
05-13-2010, 12:00
If, God forbid it's ever approved,I can't imagine anyone worth his MREs would ever wear one.

Perhaps they could just award a "P" device for the campaign medal.:rolleyes:


What about seeing a clown with this ribbon and a CIB? The only ribbon that I can picture with the idiotic award is the PH if the dumb SOB is still alive. Now, we already have a combat restraint award/MOS. Corpsmen and medics practice combat restraint to first treat wounded under fire. They qualify for the CMB. Some SF medics made the best recon 10's and many other combat jobs, too.

This entire combat restraint idea sounds like the ACLU/CAIR/ and every hate America organization 's idea.

Utah Bob
05-13-2010, 12:35
What about seeing a clown with this ribbon and a CIB? .

You don't have to shoot to get a CIB, just get shot at.
So stay in your holes boys, don't fire a round and get 2 ....count 'em TWO awards for the price of one.:eek:

Now, do you only get one of these awards per conflict or per firefight? Hmmm...
Shall the ribbon be pink or yellow?

"Hey Ell Tee, I shot that one dude but not they other one. Do I get a medal now?"

"I saw my squad leader about to shoot a haji so I shot him. Do I get a Restraint Medal by proxy?"

So many questions.....:rolleyes:

Utah Bob
05-13-2010, 12:36
I can see one benefit to this medal......it tells you whom to avoid.

They should tattoo it on your forehead.

ZonieDiver
05-13-2010, 12:39
If, God forbid it's ever approved,I can't imagine anyone worth his MREs would ever wear one.

Perhaps they could just award a "P" device for the campaign medal.:rolleyes:

Maybe the awards ceremony will look something like this...

Utah Bob
05-13-2010, 12:53
Maybe the awards ceremony will look something like this...

Ahh yes, the revised version of the revised ASU.:D

alright4u
05-13-2010, 15:19
They should tattoo it on your forehead.

The combat restraint medal should be a long yellow line, like a streak down one's back, and; add a yellow circle on the front for -Yellow Belly, too. This should be a "highly visible award."

I guess the CIB changed. You had to be shot at and return fire in my unit. No, we did not have any 30-90 days in a combat MOS in war to get a CIB. It had to be written up with a witness.

BMT (RIP)
05-14-2010, 06:57
http://www.military.com/news/article/mcchrystal-quashes-restraint-medal-rumor.html?ESRC=eb.nl


BMT

Utah Bob
05-14-2010, 07:10
The combat restraint medal should be a long yellow line, like a streak down one's back, and; add a yellow circle on the front for -Yellow Belly, too. This should be a "highly visible award."

I guess the CIB changed. You had to be shot at and return fire in my unit. No, we did not have any 30-90 days in a combat MOS in war to get a CIB. It had to be written up with a witness.

Yup.
(5) On or after 18 September 2001:

(a) A Soldier must be an Army Infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of Colonel or below, or an Army Enlisted Soldier or Warrant Officer with an Infantry or Special Forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires.

(b) A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned Infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDS), Vehicle-Borne IEDS (VBIEDS) and the like are direct fire weapons. While no fixed, qualifying distance from an explosion of these devices can be established, commanders should consider the entirety of the combat situation when considering award of the CIB.

(c) Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D (Special Forces Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily perform Special Forces duties while assigned or attached to a Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit is engaged in active ground combat may be awarded the CIB. These Soldiers must have been personally present and engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.

(d) Those Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D who qualify for award of the Combat Medical Badge (CMB) from 18 September 2001 to the 3 June 2005, will remain qualified for the badge. Upon request any such soldier may be awarded the CIB instead of the CMB. In such instances, the Soldier must submit a request through the chain of command to the CG, U.S. Army Human Resources Command, ATTN: AHRC-PDO-PA, 200 Stovall Street, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471 for conversion of the CMB to the CIB.

(e) Service members from the other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign military (Infantry and Special Forces equivalents) assigned or attached as a member of a U.S. Army Infantry or Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size may be considered for award of the CIB.

mark46th
05-18-2010, 15:34
But Islam is a Religion of Peace! Islam considers Mercy to be an admirable quality! Why would we want to hurt these peaceful, merciful pricks who want to introduce us to the wonders of Islam then kill us?