View Full Version : Biggest CCW
I've been thinking I could have the biggest, baddest concealed carry pistol if I created a new cartridge and then a gun to go with it. Sounds hard but it could be really quite easy.
1. Shorten a brass 12ga shotgun shell to 1 1/2 inches or so and then load it with a single round ball. Designate this as the "75 THOR" or something similar (12 GA. is actually 0.729 in diameter).
2. Write up a short piece for a magazine about the cartridge using any full size
12 ga shotgun as the testing gun. Establishes the cartridge legally
3. Get one of the companies making custom shotguns to build you a "pistol" chambered for standard 12 GA using a rifled barrel. Since the "Pistol" has a rifled barrel and is chambered for a cartridge shooting a single projectile it would be a legal pistol requiring no special permits, the fact it also chambers and fires regular 12 is of no consequence... The only sticking point legally might be the bore size but since the 50 caliber barrier was broke many years ago (577, 700 NE etc), probably just a small bureaucratic hurdle to be overcome.
If you doubt my logic consider all the pistols out there that feature dual chambers for 45 Colt / 410 shotgun such as the recently introduced Taurus Judge revolver.
BTW: This would really satisfy the LDBG (little d++k, big gun) market.
This could be really cool with flechettes...
MVP
BrainStorm
05-04-2010, 11:28
BTW: This would really satisfy the LDBG (little d++k, big gun) market.
Hmmm. Is that why I EDC a 45fs?
BTW, great post. It made me smile.
Peregrino
05-04-2010, 11:37
Long ago in a far away land one of my former 18Bs (IIRC he was actually the F at the time) used a 26mm flare pistol with a "barrel insert" (1" water pipe) and 12 ga shells as a breaching tool. More of a novelty item than anything practical but we all lined up to shoot it. :D Nobody was permanently injured and for single shot breeches it was better than lugging around the Mossbergs and Ithicas we had in the arms room. Not sure who would have to approve the risk assessment for that today.
I've been thinking I could have the biggest, baddest concealed carry pistol if I created a new cartridge and then a gun to go with it. Sounds hard but it could be really quite easy.
1. Shorten a brass 12ga shotgun shell to 1 1/2 inches or so and then load it with a single round ball. Designate this as the "75 THOR" or something similar (12 GA. is actually 0.729 in diameter).
This could be really cool with flechettes...
MVP
Got your back boss:
Aquila 12 GA Mini-Slug
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/12_GA_%20Mini-Slug.html
1 3/4" Minislug 12-ga shotgun shells. 7/8-oz (386-gr) slugs at 1250 fps. Low-recoil, a great choice for home defense. Aguila mini-slugs work well in Winchester 1300 and FN shotguns. Remingtons and Charles Dalys may require some elevator modification. Mossbergs require some elevator modification. I have had some success with this load in a Benelli Nova.
And this function in your 870t's and Benelli's...
craigepo
05-04-2010, 12:24
Interesting.
I thought about purchasing one of the "Judge" pistols, just to say I had one(I can get away with stupid crap like that because of my job title). Something about having a shotgun in your holster seems right...
Part of making this legal is marketing a new cartridge not just a mini 12GA.
MVP
Mississippi10
05-04-2010, 21:01
I once heard ( second-hand but from two usually reliable sources) about an intrepid, young, slightly intoxicated individual who put a full-house 10 gauge shot gun shell in a flare pistol of the same chambering, cocked the hammer, and pulled the trigger. The pistol DID fire; it DID NOT explode. Pretty much the entire upper right quadrant of the shooter did "explode" - severely torn hand ligaments / tendons / etc., broken hand, wrist, and arm bones, dislocated shoulder.
Big Bang / Small package, if taken to extremes, becomes just as dangerous to the shooter as the shot.
Blitzzz (RIP)
05-04-2010, 22:22
Just load a 535gr lead bullet cast for a 45-70 or better, and put it in a 45 long colt brass and load it in a short barreled revolver chambered for 45LC. should be fun.
Blitzzz redneck engineering.
Added note just pick up a 60 Nitro Express Hodah.
Added note just pick up a 60 Nitro Express Hodath.
Pictures please..
Which reminded me of the British Howdah, A Monster..
The Last Thing the Tiger Sees...
www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/antique_guns/purdey_howdah/howdah.html
Cabala's has a Davide Pedersoli Howdah!!
http://www.cabelas.com/p-0058399.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_RAqtse42E
Before moving to the rock, I hunted BP. As you could not carry any encased ammo, I carried a Lyman Plains pistol in .54 cal. My rifle is a .54 cal Renegade.
The Lyman is a full sized .54 barrel cut to 10 inches. It can be an eye opener if you stuff it with a full load. I did it only once. I lowered the load to 35gr (50gr max) Pyrodex RS and used the same bullet as my rifle.
I carried it for the coup de gras shot. At 10 ft it is very effective.
An Aside,, The grip on the pistol and similar BIG bores is a bit funny looking and not the easiest to hold. The roundness only comes into play when you pull the trigger and watch the barrel rotate up, somewhat mitigating the recoil. I think if you had a 1911 style grip, you palm, fingers, wrist, and butt would be sore from the recoil..
I have seen the 45-70 caliber revolvers, think they have been around since the early 1960's. They are big, awkward, and fire a single projectile. Guess you could build a shotload but then you may as well be shooting a 410. I think 12ga w/buckshot could be a hoot.
I had thought the first prototype of the Thor might be based on an 870 with a 7-9" barrel, this is why it is important that a shotgun builder do this from the outset so the gun is not classified as a cut-off shotgun. I would use the old Secret-Service grip vs the popular pistol grips on the market. The Secret service design is relatively straight and does not wrench the wrist, it looks more like teh regular stock cut at the comb and then rounded off. A double barrel ala the old Ithaca Auto-Burgler would be the final version. The tough part of that would be getting an barrel bundle with rifling but there are lots of custom smiths out there working on shotguns....
MVP
Spoke to a BATF enforcement guy, concept is sound, checking further, more to follow.
MVP
The Reaper
05-14-2010, 22:11
I always thought that the cut down M-79 was the biggest pistol I had seen.
TR
Blitzzz (RIP)
05-14-2010, 22:14
...and with a bandoleer full of Flachete.
The chopped n channeled M79 truely is the biggest but I can't see any way of getting it as a "sporting" pistol...
MVP
A public service announcement for all new 18B candidates...
Recoil is not your friend...
600 Nitro express, a very large can of whoop-ass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXc6TcOASMM
different shooter,, same pistol,, same results:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea_Q8C_67jY
and another (watch the tung action):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRgYtp3HfvY
background:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_X5nyGu5LQ
and a picture:
DJ Urbanovsky
05-19-2010, 14:25
Already kinda been done. I saw an article on a 12 gauge derringer in a gun rag back in the 80's. Thing only had about enough barrel to contain the shell, and a big long trigger. Looked pretty awesome, and they actually shot the thing, but I'm not sure I'd want to. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. :eek:
Wouldn't this still fall under Title 2 as either a destructive device or AOW? (AOW if designed as a shotgun with pistol grip, DD if designed as a pistol that happens to also be capable of shooting shotgun shells.)
The real sticking point is the caliber of the weapon if you want to market it as a pistol.
For reference on the DD portion, we have the Desert Eagle, .50AE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_Action_Express).
Original blueprints had been to use .510" diameter rounds (like the .50 BMG), but the polygonal rifling of the final prototype Desert Eagle allowed the .50 caliber bore plug to drop through, thus rendering the gun a destructive device under Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) regulations (this no longer applies on current models). Nominal bullet diameter was reduced to the current 0.500 inch (12.7 mm).
Sadly, that specific quote does not appear sourced, but the logic seems sound.
For reference on the AOW portion, we have the Serbu Super Shorty (http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php), an AOW (NOT a short barrel shotgun under Title 2.)
That being said, the SSS with the mini slugs may work out for you if your state has AOWs on the allowed list.
Finally, I do believe that Montana allows you to make your own guns with up to 1.5 inch barrels so long as you use materials and labor in Montana for the purpose of owning the weapon in Montana. That law has not yet been tested in court however as far as I am aware.
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Firearms_Freedom_Act is the link to the wiki article on the Montana law I mentioned.
mark46th
07-03-2010, 09:07
Next time you are in Thailand, try and find a local and ask him where guns are sold. Back in the 46th Co days, you could get a single shot 12 gauge pistol made by a local gun maker(I wouldn't exactly call the local guy a gunsmith). A medic friend of mine had one. I wouldn't have fired it but I guess it made him feel protected...
I'm going to have to talk with my BATF enforcement guy to get a clarification but I think I have my test base; an HK flare pistol. There are folks making cartridge adapters to put 12ga in 26mm flare guns so I'm thinking I may be able to built my test pistol using a piece of rifled tube turned to fit the HK. I'm wondering if incerting an adaptor qualifies as "manufacturing a firearm".
I would cut the chamber about 3 inches deep and use a brass shotgun shell cut to 2.5 inches loaded with a slug. Pressures should not be an issue, I could use a very reduced load to get this started.
Not fond of the HK's grip angle but what the hell, its only for concept...
MVP
There are folks making cartridge adapters to put 12ga in 26mm flare guns
Don't quote me, But I think I read a couple years ago, possibly on Weaponeer, that the 12 ga inserts are all plastic to keep ATF at bay.
Plastic barrels fall into the Darwin class of weapons,, gets U that annual award....
But ya never no,, with a new occupant in the WH,, things may change...
Now if you do get a go... How about taking an old 12 ga Remington/Ithaca/Browning barrel and using it as your "tube".. Glass it into the 26mm's barrel and you should be GTG??
:cool:
Bill Harsey
07-23-2010, 12:24
About those big bore handguns and the Nitro Exress rifles and recoil...
maybe I'm just getting old and weak but based on personnel experience some of that stuff can almost take the fun out of shooting.
I had the chance to shoot a JD Jones custom built .577 Nitro Express rifle built on a Ruger No.1 action, absolutely beautiful craftsmanship and light as a nice 20 gauge field gun. Now JD is going to call me a wimp but that rifle did have a little noticeable recoil :D
The real big bore handguns can ruin your wrist after enough rounds...not saying don't shoot them but if working with your hands is important use a little caution.
Will be paying attention to how this project turns out. :lifter
Here is a picture of an HK flare gun. Can you imagine the impression looking down this barrel would make? Hell, thinking about it I could just carry it around loaded with a flare cartridge and call it good...
MVP
Kyobanim
07-23-2010, 13:37
Addendum to the "recoil is not your friend"
Don't let this happen when you're breeching . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvQJsYnkNhA&feature=related
Addendum to the "recoil is not your friend"
Don't let this happen when you're breeching . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvQJsYnkNhA&feature=related
ROFLMAO! Are those the "Spetznaz" striped shorts? HA!