View Full Version : Polish President, Wife Among Dozens Killed in Russia Plane Crash
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/10/polish-presidents-plane-crashes-russia-killing/
Updated April 10, 2010
Polish President, Wife Among Dozens Killed in Russia Plane Crash
AP
Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the Soviet-era Tupolev, which was taking the president, his wife and staff to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.
March 15, 2010: Polish President Lech Kaczynski and wife Maria are seen in front of the Presidential Palace in Warsaw. (AP)
MOSCOW - Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military and civilian leaders died when the presidential plane crashed as it came in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia on Saturday, killing 96, officials said.
Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the Soviet-era Tupolev, which was taking the president, his wife and staff to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.
The Army chief of staff, Gen. Franciszek Gagor, National Bank President Slawomir Skrzypek and Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer were also on board, the Polish foreign ministry said.
Russia's Emergency Ministry said there were 96 dead, 88 part of a Polish state delegation.
Poland's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Piotr Paszkowski, said there were 89 people on the passenger list but one person had not shown up.
"We still cannot fully understand the scope of this tragedy and what it means for us in the future. Nothing like this has ever happened in Poland," Paszkowski said. "We can assume with great certainty that all persons on board have been killed."
The governor of the Smolensk region, where the crash took place about 11 a.m. (0700 GMT), also said no one survived.
State news channel Rossiya-24 showed footage from the crash site, with pieces of the plane scattered widely amid leafless trees and small fires burning in woods shrouded with fog. A tail fin with the Polish red and white colors stuck up from the debris.
"The Polish presidential plane did not make it to the runway while landing. Tentative findings indicate that it hit the treetops and fell apart," regional governor Sergei Anufriev said on Rossiya-24. "Nobody has survived the disaster."
The presidential Tu-154 was at least 20 years old. Polish officials have long discussed replacing the planes that carry the country's leaders but said they lacked the funds. According to the Aviation Safety Network, there have been 66 crashes involving Tu-154s, including six in the past five years. The Russian carrier Aeroflot recently withdrew its Tu-154 fleet from service.
Polish-Russian relations had been improving of late after being poisoned for decades over the Katyn massacre.
Russia never has formally apologized for the murders of some 22,000 Polish officers, but Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's decision to attend a memorial ceremony earlier this week in the forest near Katyn was seen as a gesture of goodwill toward reconciliation. Rossiya-24 showed hundreds of people around the Katyn monument, many holding Polish flags, some weeping.
Putin has been put in charge of a commission investigating the crash, the Kremlin said.
In Warsaw, Prime Minister Donald Tusk called an extraordinary meeting of his Cabinet and the national flag was lowered to half-staff at the presidential palace, where people gathered to lay flowers and light candles.
Black ribbons appeared in some windows in the Polish capital.
Poland's president is commander-in-chief of its armed forces but the position's domestic duties are chiefly symbolic. Kaczynski, 60, became president in December 2005 after defeating Tusk in that year's presidential vote.
The nationalist conservative was the twin brother of Poland's opposition leader, former Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski. Kaczynski's wife, Maria, was an economist. They had a daughter, Marta, and two granddaughters.
Kaczynski had said he would seek a second term in presidential elections this fall. He was expected to face an uphill struggle against Parliament speaker Bronislaw Komorowski, the candidate of Tusk's governing Civic Platform party.
According to the constitution, Komorowski would take over presidential duties.
Poland, a nation of 38 million people, is by far the largest of the 10 formerly communist countries that have joined the European Union in recent years.
Last year, Poland was the only EU nation to avoid recession and posted economic growth of 1.7 percent.
It has become a firm U.S. ally in the region since the fall of communism -- a stance that crosses party lines.
The country sent troops to the U.S.-led war in Iraq and recently boosted its contingent in Afghanistan to some 2,600 soldiers.
U.S. Patriot missiles are expected to be deployed in Poland this year. That was a Polish condition for a 2008 deal -- backed by both Kaczynski and Tusk -- to host long-range missile defense interceptors.
The deal, which was struck by the Bush administration, angered Russia and was later reconfigured under President Barack Obama's administration.
Under the Obama plan, Poland would host a different type of missile defense interceptors as part of a more mobile system and at a later date, probably not until 2018.
Kaczynski is the first serving Polish leader to die since exiled World War II-era leader Gen. Wladyslaw Sikorski in a plane crash off Gibraltar in 1943.
U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Saturday, "This is a horrible tragedy for Poland and we extend to the people of Poland our deepest condolences."
Neighboring Germany's foreign minister, Guido Westerwelle, said he was "shocked and full of sadness" at Kaczynski's death.
"All the German people are mourning with our Polish neighbors," Westerwelle said during a visit to South Africa.
The Reaper
04-10-2010, 08:37
Hmm.
Coincidence?
TR
...Soviet-era Tupolev... :eek:
Not me - I'd rather walk or swim. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
bandycpa
04-10-2010, 09:06
Hmm.
Coincidence?
TR
Nope. The older I get, the less I believe in coincidence. To the point now that I don't believe in it at all.
Wonder why all of those high-ranking people were on the same plane?
charlietwo
04-10-2010, 09:28
Reflecting the grave sensibilities of the crash to relations between the two countries, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin personally assumed charge of the investigation.Source--http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iVF6779laLoQqf-UdYjLw7H5Bw-AD9F09DQ00
Would Russia have much to gain from the death of the Polish president? Anyone out there sharp on Polish-Russian relations?
swatsurgeon
04-10-2010, 09:35
my daughter is in Poland right now taking part in 'the March of the Living', where american jewish kids from all over conus go to Poland to see the concentration camps then on to Israel as an educational experience.....she is there for 4 more days before going to Israel...there are 1500 kids on the trip with parents as well. Hope the borders don't get closed like they used to....
ss
any QPs in the neighborhood????
Hmm.
Coincidence?http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28445
TR
My tinfoil hat began to spin and I heard the theme to Twilight Zone. You have Russia upset about the Missile Defense system, and it is possible that trading partners and the EU probably weren't too happy about this. All those High Ranking Officials on one plane...which defies common sense. The opponent in the next Polish Presidential Election is now in charge.
It's a conspiracy in the making.
http://blogs.wsj.com/new-europe/2010/04/09/polish-central-bank-pulls-trigger-to-weaken-zloty/
April 9, 2010, 12:18 PM ET
Poland Pulls Trigger to Weaken Zloty
In one of those rare moments of unity, the National Bank of Poland and the Polish government agreed on the need to weaken the Polish zloty, which over recent weeks has rebounded close to its precrisis strength. The currency’s strength is now seen a possible threat to economic recovery. After several verbal interventions over the past few days, the central bank intervened with real money Friday, for the first time in more than a decade.
The bank followed through on its Thursday warnings that it is “technologically and psychologically” prepared to enter the currency market to prevent “excessive strengthening of the zloty.” Government officials also said earlier this week that the “strong zloty” is damaging growth and, after Friday’s intervention, said they fully back the central bank’s move.
Not too long ago economists said “the equilibrium rate,” which you could very roughly translate as “the fair value that’s acceptable for both exporters and importers,” of the zloty is around 3.80 zloty to the euro.
Considering that the zloty has only just approached that level, is it really too strong already? Or are Polish officials back in the mode of trying to improve Poland’s competitiveness by keeping the currency weak and exporters happy, disregarding how the average taxpayer, consumer and traveler feels about the strength of the Polish currency?
The zloty has been highly volatile over the past two years, reaching its strongest level ever at 3.20 zloty against the euro in July 2008 and weakening dramatically during the global financial crisis to near its all-time weakest level of 4.92 zloty in February 2009.
Over the past 14 months, the Polish currency has regained much of its precrisis strength. Late Friday it traded at roughly 3.88 zloty to the euro, down from 3.845 zloty before the intervention.
When the currency was at 3.20 zloty to the euro in 2008, exporters were complaining, but the economy was not contracting at all. That period of a super-strong currency showed that exporters have at least some ability to adjust or hedge — provided the zloty doesn’t fall or rise too quickly.
The real problem with the zloty is not strength or weakness, but its volatility. If the exchange rate was the real problem, as the central bank and the government are trying to make believe, why didn’t they react to the “weak zloty” last year when the rapidly falling currency was one of the most heavily discussed issues, especially given the popularity of foreign currency-denominated loans? Back then, many ordinary Poles found it hard to service their mortgages and yet the finance ministry only started selling its euros in early 2009 when the zloty neared an all-time low and threatened to break through 5.00.
According to some currency traders, the central bank managed to move the zloty down about 1%, buying just €9 million. Analysts put the figure at a more realistic €100 million or even €300 million.
Whatever the amount, the psychological effect was important for investors who were betting on further strengthening and now know the central bank really has its finger on the trigger. That may prevent volatility, but only if the market has reasons to believe the zloty is equally protected from excessive strengthening and weakening. Recent experience implies Polish authorities prefer an undervalued zloty.
Applying STRATFOR analysis to breaking news
Polish President Lech Kaczynski, his wife, and 87 other people aboard the presidential jet were killed April 10 after the plane crashed on the approach to the Smolensk airport in western Russia. Some reports have put the death toll as high as 130, though that number has not been officially confirmed. The weather conditions around Smolensk are reported to have been foggy and the plane is believed to have missed the runway on the pilot’s fourth attempt at landing, crashing into nearby trees. According to the Polish Foreign Ministry, also on the plane were Army Chief of Staff Gen. Franciszek Gagor, National Bank President Slawomir Skrzypek and Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Kremer. The presidential Tu-154 jet was around 20 years old, and there had been discussions in Poland on replacing it, but no replacement had been purchased due to insufficient funding. Kaczynski was on his way to Smolensk to mark the 70-year anniversary of the Katyn massacre, during which Soviet soldiers executed Polish officers. He had refused to attend an earlier Katyn ceremony organized by the Russian government that his prime minister — and domestic rival — Donald Tusk attended with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin only a few days earlier. The purpose of the Russian ceremony was to reset relations between Warsaw and Moscow, but also to drive a wedge between anti-Russian forces in Polish politics — led by Kaczynski — and those open to an accommodation with Russia, led by Tusk. Because of Kaczynski’s outspoken criticism of Russia, his death will undoubtedly spin Warsaw into a frenzy of conspiracy theories ahead of the upcoming presidential elections. Kaczynski was going to face a stiff challenge from Tusk’s ally and the current speaker of the parliament, Bronislaw Komorowski, who will take over the presidency according to the Polish constitution. It is highly likely that Kaczynski’s right-wing nationalist supporters will see the accident as more than just related to foggy conditions, further dividing nationalists and centrists in Poland.
Not saying they did it...but. First georgia is attacked, then the Orange revolution is overturned in Ukraine, then kyrgystan in upheaval with the russians apparently coming out on top...now this. Wouldnt put it past them. They are trying to shore up their boarders. It's common knowledge that the KGB assassinated the Pakistani President, and us ambasador as well as top U.S. and Pakistani Military aides and CIA/ ISI officials when they sabotaged a c-130 carrying all of them during the 80's. It "crashed" into the tribal areas in Pakistan. The guy who investigated it now works for STRATFOR, and he says he KNOWS it was the KGB. my 2 cents.
The Reaper
04-10-2010, 10:44
Hmm.
That is two anti-Russian regime changes in less than a week.
If I were a Former Soviet Republic/Eastern Bloc leader who had been antagonizing Moscow, this would have to make me pause and reflect.
What was Putin's previous job, before he went into politics?
TR
mojaveman
04-10-2010, 11:12
Could the fact that Poland had a military presence in both Iraq and Afghanistan lead to any other possibilities?
RIP to president of Poland, his wife and members of his staff. This is horrible.
newbie,
Are you basing the assertion below based on what Victor Ivanovich Sheymov stated? That is far from common knowledge if it based on one person. Also who is this guy that works for STRATFOR if it is not a big secret?
Not saying they did it...but. First georgia is attacked, then the Orange revolution is overturned in Ukraine, then kyrgystan in upheaval with the russians apparently coming out on top...now this. Wouldnt put it past them. They are trying to shore up their boarders. It's common knowledge that the KGB assassinated the Pakistani President, and us ambasador as well as top U.S. and Pakistani Military aides and CIA/ ISI officials when they sabotaged a c-130 carrying all of them during the 80's. It "crashed" into the tribal areas in Pakistan. The guy who investigated it now works for STRATFOR, and he says he KNOWS it was the KGB. my 2 cents.
Wiseman. One of the Lead investigators if the crash of that c-130 in Pakistan, a guy actually on the ground, was a Diplomatic security Service agent named Frank Burton. He now works for STRATFOR. he has a book out called "Ghost"...it's a memoir, a little over the top perhaps, but the guy has tonnes of experience. he was an investigator of the Lockerbie bombing, and the Buckley kidnapping, and other terror attacks. He and his investigative team, on the ground in Pakistan, air force crash investigators, FBI, and maybe ATF (i forget). Bottom line, they found out the plane had a pressure sensitive bomb placed on board, a very complex device for those days, and certainly too complex for local Mujh. Bottom line, it was right when the U.S. and Pakistan had essentially completed the Russian defeat in Afghanistan...So this guy, Fred Burton, believes it was a KGB operation, through and through. Im just saying, im not positive Russians are behind this recent crash, but it seems very plausible...and I am NOT a conspiracy nut...I just know, that historically, Russians, and Putin in particular, are very good, and have the stomach for, getting rid of any opposition. Putin's track record in this regard is probably only matched by Stalin.
Russia's Growing Resurgence
E
VIDENCE OF RUSSIA’S ROLE IN THE OVERTHROW of the Kyrgyz government Wednesday became even clearer Thursday.
Not coincidentally, members of the interim government that the opposition began forming on Wednesday have lengthy and deep ties to Russia. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was not only quick to endorse the new government, but he also offered the opposition Russia’s support — financial or otherwise. Interestingly, Russia on Thursday also sent 150 of its elite paratroopers to its military installation in Kant -– twenty miles from the capital of Bishkek –- leaving a looming suspicion that Russia could step in further to ensure the success of the new government.
Protests take place regularly in Kyrgyzstan. The fact that Wednesday’s protests spun into riots, followed by the seizure then ousting of the government, followed by the installation of a replacement government set to take control — all in less than a 24-hour period — are all clear indicators that this was a highly organized series of events, likely orchestrated from outside the country. Furthering this assumption were reports from STRATFOR sources on the ground that noted a conspicuous Russian FSB presence in the country during the riots. These reports cannot be confirmed, but it is not unrealistic to assume that a pervasive presence of Russian security forces exists in the country.
There are many reasons why Russia decided to target Kyrgyzstan. The country lies in a key geographic location nestled against China and Kazakhstan, and surrounds the most critical piece of territory in all of Central Asia: the Fergana Valley. Whoever controls Kyrgyzstan has the ability to pressure a number of states, including Kazakhstan, China, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Kyrgyzstan was also the scene of the 2005 Tulip Revolution, which ushered in President Kurmanbek Bakiyev, who is now sheltering himself in the southern regions of the country. It was not that Bakiyev was pro-Western like other color revolution leaders in Georgia and Ukraine, but he was available to the highest bidder and the United States was willing to pay.
The United States has maintained a transit center at the Manas International Airport — which serves as a key logistical hub for its operations in Afghanistan — since 2001. Though Russia has four — soon to be five — military installations in Kyrgyzstan, Manas is the only serious U.S. military presence in Central Asia. With a Russian-controlled government coming into power in Bishkek, Moscow now holds the strings over Manas. This gives Russia another lever to use against the United States within the larger struggle between the two powers.
“As of Wednesday, Russia has now added to its repertoire the ability to pull off its own style of color revolution with the toppling of the Kyrgyz government.”
Russia’s main goal within that struggle is to have Western influence pulled back from its former turf — especially in the former Soviet states — and for the United States to accept Russian pre-eminence in the former Soviet sphere. But Russia is not just waiting for the United States to hand over its former turf. Instead, it has been actively resurging back into these countries using a myriad of tools.
Russia has long exerted its influence in the former Soviet states by attempting to ensure their economic reliance on Russia — as an integrated part of each country’s economy, and as an energy provider or energy transporter. This was seen in 2006 when Russia started cutting off energy supplies to Ukraine and also in Lithuania, to force the countries and their supporters in Europe to be more compliant.
Russia proved in 2008 that it was willing to use military force against its former Soviet states by going to war with Georgia. This move was particularly poignant since Georgia also had been a country turned pro-Western via a color revolution, and was pushing for membership into NATO. In early 2010, Russia showed that it could slowly organize forces in Ukraine to be democratically elected, replacing the pro-Western government elected in the Orange Revolution.
As of Wednesday, Russia has now added to its repertoire of tools used in the former Soviet states the ability to pull off its own style of color revolution with the toppling of the Kyrgyz government.
Russia has been systematically tailoring its resurgence into each country of its former sphere according to the country’s circumstances. This has not been quick or easy for Moscow. The overthrow of Kyrgyzstan has been painstakingly planned for nearly a decade to either flip the country back under Moscow’s control, or at least roll back U.S. influence and make the country more pragmatic to the Russian mission.
Russia knows there is no one-size-fits-all plan for its former Soviet states. The Kremlin cannot simply wage war with each country like it did with Georgia, cut off energy supplies like in Lithuania, set up a democratically elected government like in Ukraine or overthrow the government as in Kyrgyzstan. Now and going forward, Russia will tailor the type of influences it uses to each country it wants to control.
Utah Bob
04-10-2010, 15:47
I never drive drunk.
I never mix prescription drugs.
I never get on Russian airplanes.
On September 17, 2009 the 70th Anniversary of the Soviet Union invasion of Poland, President Obama scraps the Missile Defense system in Poland.
April 8, 2010 President Obama Signs Nuclear Arms Pact with Russia
April 10, 2010 - President Lech Kaczynski was leading a delegation of 88 people on Saturday to an event marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police, and they all died in a plane 'accident'.
I'd say the Polish government's Continuity Plan needs some improvements going forward.
After hearing the initial report of a plane crash, sans details, my first thought was that the Russians must have killed them. A for-real accident did not cross my mind until I read an article.
RIP.
I can't believe they had all those people on one aircraft like that.
I believe it was in the 1960's, Crane Valve Co. was the leader in the valve manufacturing business. They put most of the Top Echelon on a plane headed to a trade show, it crashed, they all died and the company was never the same.
For that reason, my Boss and most if not all others in the industry limited how many could be on a single flight.
Dozer523
04-10-2010, 17:03
The plane was a the Soviet-era Tupolev. But, I'm pretty sure it was owned, operated, flown and maintained by Poles. I'll take as safe a bet that the Russians did NOT cause the crash. It is a juicy coincidence of destination.
Will I take the bet that the Russians won't take advantage of the situation ? Not a chance.
I couldn't find an approach plate for the airport (my wife has the whole-world Jep set at work) but the Sat view of the runway shows it to be non-precision. Other than shooting it down or planting something on-board, I'm not sure how they could have effected it.
The driver did 3 missed-approaches and was advised by the tower (which, judging from the Sat image shadow, it does have) to go to the alternate.
That said, it is Russki turf and they report, they decide. Plus, they can sterilize the site before anyone else shows up.
Pat
6.8SPC_DUMP
04-10-2010, 18:40
Swift and safe journey for QP Swatsurgeon's daughter and all the kids/parents on her trip.
Condolences to PS.com member PiterM, his family, friends and fellow countrymen.
Thanks for member's insights on the event.
Hope the Polish Gov. is granted expedient access to black box recordings and air traffic control records/recordings.
Early list of victims:
Lech Kaczysnki - Polish president.
Maria Kaczynska - The president's wife
Ryszard Kaczorowski - Poland's last president-in-exile
Aleksander Szczyglo - head of the National Security Office
Pawel Wypych - presidential aide
Mariusz Handzlik - presidential aide
Jerzego Szmajdzinski - deputy parliament speaker
Andrzej Kremer - Deputy Foreign Minister
Gen. Franciszek Gagor - head of the army chief of staff
Andrzej Przewoznik - minister in charge of WWII memorials
Slawomir Skrzypek - head of the National Bank of Poland
Janusz Kurtyka - head of the National Remembrance Institute
Przemyslaw Gosiewski - lawmaker
Zbigniew Wassermann - lawmaker
Grzegorz Dolniak - lawmaker
Janusz Kochanowski - civil rights commissioner
Bishop Tadeusz Ploski - army chaplain
Link (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264964/BREAKING-NEWS-Plane-carrying-Polish-president-crashes-Russia.html#ixzz0kkH20sRW)
Wladyslaw Stasiak: chief of the president's chancellery
Jerzy Szmajdzinski: deputy speaker of the lower house
Tomasz Merta: chief historical conservator
Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm)
Anna Walentynowicz: was a crane driver and trade union activist at the Gdansk shipyard whose dismissal in 1980 sparked the strike that led to the creation of the Solidarity movement. Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8613395.stm)
A corporation is one thing, maybe someone trying to do things for cheap, but the leaders of a country!? Just makes no sense.
I read that it was a budget issue.
A corporation is one thing, maybe someone trying to do things for cheap, but the leaders of a country!? Just makes no sense.
On the sidenote, so you are in the valve manufacturing business?
No, but I have been to a plant or two. I spent 18 years in the Wholesale part of PVF. I did sales, purchasing, managed inventory, built the computer system/network, set up price structures and negotiated vendor contracts.
robert2854
04-10-2010, 19:59
I was never a conspiracy nut, but it sure smells. Maybe I am too old(64YOA)
A horrible tragedy...my condolences to the Country and our Polish friends.
incarcerated
04-10-2010, 21:57
http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20100410_brief_details_presidential_jets_crash
Brief: Details On The Presidential Jet's Crash
April 10, 2010 | 2133 GMT
Russia’s presidential representative in the Central Federal District, Georgy Poltavchenko, said late April 10 that the Polish flight crew of the crashed presidential plane had been advised by Russian air traffic controllers to deviate from their flight plan to Smolensk and land in Minsk or Vitebsk in Belarus. This was later echoed by Russian Transportation Minister Igor Levitin, who said that the decision to land the plane was taken by the Polish pilot, which has been confirmed by flight recordings recovered from the crash site. According to Levitin, the visibility at the airport was 400 meters due to heavy fog, whereas the required landing visibility is at least 1,000 meters. Levitin also said the two flight recorders will be taken to Moscow where they will be examined in cooperation with Polish investigators. According to STRATFOR sources in Poland, the decision to land in Smolensk, and not in Belarus, may have been influenced by the fact that the ceremonies marking the 70-year anniversary of the Katyn massacre were due to take place within an hour of the supposed landing. In addition, the Tu-154 presidential plane was built in 1990 and had recently been serviced in Russia. In January 2010, Russian airline Aeroflot ceased to fly the model, which was designed in the 1960s. Polish President Lech Kaczynski — who, along with 96 others died in the crash — was known to take risks, demanding that his pilot lands his presidential plane in Tbilisi during the 2008 war between Georgia and Russia. His pilot at the time refused to land in a war zone, instead diverting the plane to Azerbaijan. According to sources in Poland, that pilot was reprimanded and never flew with the president again.
My condolences to our Polish friends and allies. Though this in no way detracts from the tragic loss of life, folks concerned about the subsequent geopolitical ramifications should remember in the Polish system of government, the President of Poland has some influence, but it is actually the Prime Minister who runs and leads the country.
There have been a lot of curious things going on in the Russian sphere of influence lately, and the Poles certainly have historical reasons to be cynical, but conspiracies entail a level of competence which seems to fade with scalability? I'm reminded of the Zen Master from Charlie Wilson's War
" We'll See..."
Aeroflot mostly flies Boeing planes, I've seen them when I was visiting Russia in 2009. There are other companies besides Aeroflot that are mostly operating Boeing planes inside Russia. It is rare to see Russian made planes in Russian commerical travel anymore.
It's seems the airport had an NDB non-precision approach! Russia has very few VORs.
I bet they still "fly the beam" as well. :rolleyes: Our Astronauts will soon be in their care!
Pat
The guy was interesting but hardly a 'team player' in the European political sphere...
Richard
Kaczynski Often a Source of Tension Within E.U.
Judy Dempsey and Diane Cardwell, NYT, 10 Apr 2010
<snip>
Half of an unusual tandem of power, Mr. Kaczynski was elected president in 2005 from the nationalist-conservative Law and Justice Party, led by his identical twin, Jaroslaw, whom he later appointed prime minister.
Swept into office as voters repudiated the group of former Communist officials who had dominated the country’s politics for much of the preceding decade, Mr. Kaczynski and his brother struggled at the top. They frequently put Poland on a collision course with its European Union partners and Russia, while polarizing voters at home with a shift to the right.
“His approach is to first destroy and then think about what to build,” Lech Walesa, hero of the Solidarity movement and former president, said in 2006 of Lech Kaczynski, who once served as Mr. Walesa’s national security chief.
Poland joined the European Union in 2004, but Mr. Kaczynski often preferred dealing with the United States.
As soon as Mr. Kaczynski took office in the presidential headquarters in the center of Warsaw, he forged close relations with Ukraine and Georgia, determined to bring them closer to NATO and eventually have them admitted to the American-led military organization.
His defense of those two countries often upset leading members of the European Union, especially Germany, which was concerned that an expanded NATO would make Russia feel threatened and lead to new East-West tensions. Mr. Kaczynski, however, believed passionately that a strong NATO would prevent Russia from reasserting its influence over Eastern and Central Europe.
Mr. Kaczynski was born on June 18, 1949, when Warsaw was in ruins. His suspicions of Russia and Germany had deep roots. His father, Rajmund, an engineer, and his mother, Jadwiga, who studied linguistics, had been active in the Polish resistance against the Nazis.
He and his brother — who could be told apart only by a mole on Lech’s left cheek — became famous at age 12 when they starred in a film version of “The Two Who Stole the Moon,” a beloved children’s story. They began their rise to political prominence in the underground Solidarity movement in the 1980s.
They were close, at first, to Mr. Walesa, but they fell out with his movement during the 1990s, claiming that the intellectuals, led by Adam Michnik, had made too many compromises with former Communists and the secret police. The brothers remained active in politics, with Lech Kaczynski serving as justice minister from 2000 to 2001 and gaining popularity by emphasizing his tough stance against crime.
He became mayor of Warsaw in 2002, and critics began to see his brand of nationalism — he and his brother wanted a complete break with the past by purging the civil service and the media of former Communists — as overzealous and provincial. But the twins were helped in their rise to power by an image of honesty in a country that had witnessed one corruption scandal after another for years.
Yet he was not reluctant to create tensions with Moscow or Berlin. Poland joined NATO in 1999, part of the first bloc of former Communist countries, along with Hungary and the Czech Republic, to join the alliance.
“It was obvious to us that this was the only tough security structure there was in the world, and that the membership of NATO would only mean benefits for Poland,” Mr. Kaczynski said in an interview last year.
He added that did not mean that Russia’s leaders had “abandoned their ideas to regain influence, like using natural resources, natural gas, as a weapon and trying to influence politicians.”
“Indeed,” he said, “back in the early 1990s, my impression was that Poland’s entry into NATO would finally resolve those questions. And here I must admit I was wrong.”
He lobbied hard for the United States to deploy part of its controversial shield against ballistic missiles in Poland, arguing that it would enhance Poland’s security against Russia. Those plans, supported by President George W. Bush, were scaled back by President Obama.
A devout Roman Catholic, Mr. Kaczynski was regarded as skeptical of the European Union while he fought to defend Poland’s sovereignty against Brussels and to protect its traditional, conservative values. In 2008, he argued against ratifying the union’s Lisbon Treaty for fear its prohibition of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation would become Polish law.
Mr. Kaczynski’s star had been fading in recent years, and he would have faced a difficult re-election battle this year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/europe/11kaczynski.html?hp
Rough Geography, recent events imply the Russians are far from convinced the Imperial Era is over...
What's Next for Poland
President Kaczynski's visit to Russia was supposed to help heal a historic rift between the two countries. But as NEWSWEEK's former Warsaw bureau chief explains, that won't be easy. Especially now.
By Andrew Nagorski | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Apr 10, 2010 | Updated: 2:13 p.m. ET Apr 10, 2010
In the United States, all you have to do is say "Pearl Harbor," and everyone knows what you are talking about. In Poland—a country that was invaded countless times by Russians from the east and Germans from the west—there are far more names of places that everyone instantly recognizes because of their tragic symbolism. But one stands out above all others: Katyn. The fact that the plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski and 95 others, including a who's who of the Polish political and military elite, crashed as it was attempting to land in the western Russian city of Smolensk near the Katyn forest, makes this national tragedy overwhelming in its emotional impact. Kaczynski and the others on the ill-fated flight were supposed to go to the Katyn forest to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the execution of 21, 857 Polish POWs and civilians on the direct orders of Joseph Stalin and his Politburo. When I was growing up in our family's new home in the United States, my father—who had served in the Polish Army in 1939 and then fled to the West, joining Polish forces under British command—made sure that his children knew the full meaning of Katyn. Poland hadn't only been invaded by Hitler, he reminded us; it had also been invaded by Stalin's armies, and then they had attempted to wipe out any future source of opposition by executing so many of its top officers and men. The fact that Stalin and subsequent Soviet and Polish communist regimes insisted on blaming this crime on the Nazis, who invaded Russia only much later, just magnified Katyn's potency as a symbol. When I started visiting Poland as a student and then as a journalist in communist times, people only had to whisper the word "Katyn" to signal their opposition to the government and its wholesale falsification of history. You could talk openly about the truth of Katyn only in the West, where Polish exiles like my father and grandfather, who served in the Polish government-in-exile in London during World War II, kept insisting that the cover-up was as bad as the original crime.
But things began to change after the fall of communism in 1989, triggered by Solidarity's successful battle for freedom in Poland, which included the freedom to tell the full truth about Katyn. In a goodwill gesture to Poland in 1992, Russia's new President Boris Yeltsin finally released the order from Stalin's Politburo that confirmed Soviet responsibility for the murders. While this briefly improved Polish-Russian relations, Yeltsin's successor Vladimir Putin took a harder line on history, initially encouraging a more positive view of Stalin ("the most successful Soviet leader ever," proclaimed a Russian teacher's manual in 2007) and renewed equivocation about his record of mass murder. That included new efforts by some Russians to deny the truth about Katyn.
The irony is that this year, on the 70th anniversary of those murders, there was renewed hope that the truth would really set both countries free. Four days before the fatal crash, Putin had accompanied Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk to Katyn and admitted Stalin's responsibility for what happened—although he also tossed in a pseudo-justification by claiming the Soviet leader was avenging earlier mistreatment of Russian POWs by Poles in the two countries' war of 1920.
That was precisely the kind of statement that still infuriated Poles, and particularly someone like President Kaczynski, 60, whose experience as a Solidarity activist in the 1980s made him instinctively distrustful of Russian leaders who weren't willing to come completely clean about their history. When I interviewed Kaczynski shortly after Russia's brief war with Georgia in August 2008, he was uncompromising in his language. "There was a test of strength, and Russia showed the face it wanted to show—an imperial face," he told me. He also blasted the West for its passive response.
Yet even Kaczynski, as tough as he was on the Russians, could imagine a better day—so long, as he put it, that the world would "convince Russia that the imperial era is over." And the very fact that such high-level Polish delegations, representing so much of recent Polish history, were flying often to commemorate the Katyn massacre demonstrated how times have changed. Among those who died today was Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last Polish president-in-exile in London, who officially gave up his post when former Solidarity leader Lech Walesa was elected president of a newly free Poland in 1990. Kaczorowski's government was a largely symbolic continuation of the first Polish government-in-exile during World War II, the government my grandfather was a part of. To Poles, all these connections feel personal.
And then there was a whole new generation of parliamentarians and government officials who died today as well. Among them was Undersecretary of Defense Stanislaw Komorowski, a gifted former scientist who then embarked on a diplomatic career. I met him at a small dinner party in Warsaw in October. As he juggled urgent calls on his cell about Vice President Biden's visit to Poland to discuss missile defense plans, he was both witty and highly knowledgeable, covering a broad range of issues in a coolly analytical way that was quite different from the more impassioned style of slightly older ex-opposition activists like President Kaczynski.
But nothing can be coolly analytical about the way Poles are thinking about Katyn. Now it's not only a name that connotes a past tragedy with continuing political overtones; it will also live in the memories of today's Poles as a symbol of the loss of so many of their countrymen who experienced the full range of the country's recent history—and its battles over the meaning of the place where they, too, came to die.
NEWSWEEK's former Warsaw bureau chief Andrew Nagorski is now vice president and director of public policy at the EastWest Institute.
www.newsweek.com/id/236220
My Friends... it's still hard to believe for me what happened to my country on Saturday.
Except of Prime-minister and Spokeman of Parliment we lost all key people in the country. ALL of them! It's hard to imagine! President and First Lady, but also ALL chief commanders of all forces (general chief commander, air, land, sea chiefs, Warsaw Garrison commander and also special forces chief commander). We lost President of National Bank of Poland, leaders of parliament, 3 key candidates for president election (there was an election planned for September 2010!) and many more. What a tragedy!
Sorry, I cannot say more... it's beyond my understanding...
Bill Harsey
04-12-2010, 18:16
My Friends... it's still hard to believe for me what happened to my country on Saturday.
Except of Prime-minister and Spokeman of Parliment we lost all key people in the country. ALL of them! It's hard to imagine! President and First Lady, but also ALL chief commanders of all forces (general chief commander, air, land, sea chiefs, Warsaw Garrison commander and also special forces chief commander). We lost President of National Bank of Poland, leaders of parliament, 3 key candidates for president election (there was an election planned for September 2010!) and many more. What a tragedy!
Sorry, I cannot say more... it's beyond my understanding...
Piter,
I thought of you the first second I heard about this tragedy.
My heart goes out to your entire country and many here wish you and your people the very best.
Bill
Ambush Master
04-12-2010, 18:39
Piter,
I thought of you the first second I heard about this tragedy.
My heart goes out to your entire country and many here wish you and your people the very best.
Bill
I totally concur with Bill!!
Thoughts and Prayers out for all!!!
Martin
The Reaper
04-12-2010, 20:13
RIP and sincerest condolences on your loss.
TR
My thoughts and prayers are with the people of Poland
-AKV
VERY interesting video taken just after the crash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vcjP8fTHLY
6.8SPC_DUMP
05-14-2010, 13:21
The recent crash of a Polish military transport that killed most of Warsaw's senior civilian and military leaders was not only a human catastrophe for a key U.S. ally. NATO sources said that, in addition to the loss of nearly 100 pro-U.S. Polish leaders, the crash provided Moscow with a windfall of secrets.
The crash killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski in western Russia on April 10 and decapitated Poland's military, killing two service chiefs, key military aides and several national security officials, many of whom were carrying computers and pocket memory sticks that contained sensitive NATO data.
Perhaps the most significant compromise, according to a NATO intelligence source, is that the Russians are suspected of obtaining ultrasecret codes used by NATO militaries for secure satellite communications.
The compromise of the codes is considered what electronic spies call a "break" for Moscow code-breakers. New NATO codes almost certainly were issued to allied militaries immediately after the crash.
But if the Russian electronic intelligence service, known as the Federal Agency of Government Communications and Information, was able to recover and use the communication key code from the wreckage, electronic spies will be able to decode months' or perhaps years' worth of scrambled communications that are routinely gathered electronically for just such an occasion.
The coded communications, if decrypted, would reveal some of NATO's most intimate secrets, such as plans for defenses and even the identities of agents or allied eavesdropping sources.
Other Polish and NATO secrets also were believed to be aboard the jet, and so far Russia's government is refusing to cooperate fully with Poland's government in providing details on the cause of the crash, or even to turn over the Polish jet's black boxes.
Additionally, Poland's interim government has not pressed the Russians for answers to questions about the crash, such as why Russian aviation authorities, without any investigation, ruled that pilot error caused the crash minutes after the jet crashed short of the runway in fog at Russia's Smolensk airport. Polish security and aviation authorities also were denied access to the crash site.
Public pressure is mounting on Warsaw to call for an international commission to investigate the crash. Tens of thousands of Poles already have signed a petition calling for the international probe.
Many Poles, who need little encouragement to be critical of the Russians based on past enmity, have taken to calling the crash the "second Katyn," after the 1940 Katyn Forest massacre when Russian agents killed more than 21,000 Polish officers in an effort to decimate the Polish military.
Mr. Kaczynski, who was viewed as politically more anti-Russian than current leaders, was on his way to Katyn, about six miles from Smolensk, to mark the anniversary of the massacre. Link (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/13/inside-the-ring-86422687/)