Knife design

[BRAVO-SMASH]

I had just showed up to B co 3/1, and of course the caliber of man that i am now training with didn’t surprise me, but the personal skills some these men have brought to the table really set a new level. There’s a guy who makes his own kit and customizes his teams set-up if they wish. Then another who does leather work making sheaths and holsters. And then my senior, who I knew was a knife buff, but showed up one day with his first new combat utility style knife that he made himself. I was pretty amazed that he did this work in his garage with some tools and machines he made himself. Pretty innovative. Anyway, as soon as he brought these edged tools in, everyone in the company started putting in orders or drawing up designs they wanted. So, that being said, I wanted to show you all mine then as soon as the finished product comes back ill post here for everyone to see.

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[Bill Harsey]

Bravo S.
That seems a little like a knife I've seen somewhere before.

If you make that exact pattern your going to find things that could be done better.

[BRAVO-SMASH]

Bravo S.
That seems a little like a knife I've seen somewhere before.

If you make that exact pattern your going to find things that could be done better.

Sir,
First, it’s an honor to be talking with the designer of the Yarborough Knife. I’m a fan of your work. But I’m only a fan. Not a thief. By no means was I copying yours or anyone’s designs. That was not my intention. There are details ergonomically and cosmetically that differ from my ideas to your design. That drawing is a basic and general idea. Once I receive the finished product, l will share it.

[Bill Harsey]

BRAVO-SMASH,

First, I do not want to discourage your knife work and please understand I never said, or even thought the word thief. I just meant "close" and that is not a stop work order, I don't have that ability anyway.

Back to the design, the best way I have of going from drawing to a first 3-D model for a pattern is to make a 1 to 1 photo copy of your drawing then use a spray glue and place it on a piece of 1/4 inch thick plexiglass or even better, polycarbonate (Lexan) plastic and cut it out to the outside edge of the black line.
After a very light chamfer on the edge, less than .030 thousands radius, one can begin to judge the handle to blade relationship and the handle size and shaping.

[Bill Harsey]

Was in the shop grinding, I think a little better there sometimes.
For possible clarification design is both general concept and details that work together.

All knives should have an edge and something to grab onto because these things don't drive themselves. This means most knives have a blade and handle. This is the largest general concept of knife design and we start focusing from there.

It is interesting to have worked on the "right" edge shape for a game knife and think I'm the first one to have gotten it right only to find it done, beautifully, on a stone blade made around 10,000 years ago.

I certainly did not invent knives but have been lucky enough that many have guided me to making something better than I might have all on my own.

BRAVO-SMASH, My job is to keep that tradition going too so let me think about your first design phase assignment as a knife designer.

[Kit Carson]

BRAVO-SMASH,

Reading almost everything in this forum on a daily basis is part of my schedule. I don't post much but felt this thread needed my input.

Having been a knifemaker for almost 4 decades, and full time since 1993 I'll throw my $.02 worth into this thread.

My first thought after reading your initial post and looking at the drawing was that it looked an very much like the Yarborough knife.

Don't get all bent out of shape. I'm not saying you copied the design. Like Bill, I would not want to discourage your knife designing.

Mentoring new makers is something that I enjoy. It gives me a chance to see all the "new" designs they can come up with. Occasionally it's not a "new" design but one that has been done before. It's my responsibility to tell them.

I don't discourage them from building it, but encourage them to think about it and if it's the case of the original maker still being alive, ask them to contact him and get his feelings on it. Most will encourage the new maker to go right ahead, but some won't. If it's a design that is with a manufacturer, the answer will probably be "please don't". I've had that situation arise with designs of mine that Buck and CRK&T are/were making.

How they handle the answer is what I watch. It's what will determine their future in this business.

I look forward to seeing your final version.

[BRAVO-SMASH]

By no means am I a knife maker or a designer. I’m just a knuckle dragging, lead slinging Bravo that likes sharp things. My general Idea of what I wanted was something simple yet effective. I’ve never had a combat knife but now consider taking one to OEF soon. It would be my last resort weapon. I plan on having it in the small of my back on my belt hidden but easily accessible in the event the enemy decides to get too close and my primary and secondary weapons are down. I focused on the handle most. I wanted a good ergo grip. The glass breaker was my senior’s idea I liked. As far as the blade goes… that was as general as I could be. Anything but a tanto tip. But if it cuts through smelly man-dress and flesh, I’m happy.
I really do appreciate both of your feedback. And now that it’s been brought up, I pulled out my Yarborough Knife. Yes, the handle is similar. Not what I’m basing what I’m having made after though. If anything, I was thinking of a pistol grip when I was drawing it up. I have smaller hands and I liked the way my grip fits in my hands so I went with what works and feels good for me.
My whole purpose of sharing was not about the design, but what I thought about my senior's talents. I'm just as eager to get my knife as I'm sure you are to see it.

[Bill Harsey]

Nothing wrong with knuckledraggers, lead slingers or Bravos in this area. Thanks again for the mention of your Seniors talents, it is noted.
Please advise him it is usually just 4 hours south from the front gate of your place to the shop here if you all ever need anything.

You be sure to get exactly the knife you want and that is why I mentioned the plexi patterns for your own review before steel is cut. Interesting thinking about your handle.

Do you know what steel your knife will be made from? Handle material?

Good job focusing on the grip. That's the part that will tell you where the edge is without looking at the knife and give the user the best possible control over the blade.

Edited to add: Not a designer/maker? Too late, your now involved in designing knives.

...and Thanks Kit.

[BRAVO-SMASH]

The handle material is marcarta in urban assault pattern (shown below). The blade color will be a bronze like brown. I guess that’s the color the steel turns into after his knives where heat treated. I liked how it looked. As for the steel material... I’m not sure. I had two choices: this one, or that one. But that one is better. Ha! I know. I’ll get the specs as soon as I talk to him.

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[x SF med]

Bravo-Smash
check your PMs

[Ken Brock]

Back to the design, the best way I have of going from drawing to a first 3-D model for a pattern is to make a 1 to 1 photo copy of your drawing then use a spray glue and place it on a piece of 1/4 inch thick plexiglass or even better, polycarbonate (Lexan) plastic and cut it out to the outside edge of the black line.
After a very light chamfer on the edge, less than .030 thousands radius, one can begin to judge the handle to blade relationship and the handle size and shaping.


ha! You do a hell of a lot more thought on making a knife than I do Mr. Harsey!

I generally just pick up a piece of steel and start grinding on it and hope it turns out OK

but then again, the thought you put into your knives shows in the finished product and you have excellent designs


I have found that when guys get started in knifemaking, they tend to incorporate many features found on existing knives especially of makers that they really like. I did it myself when I started before I found my own style of design

I've had a couple of aspiring makers contact me and ask if they could make a copy of one of my knives to get skill of grinding down before trying to develop their own style. I don't mind it if it will help someone progress their skills

Bill and Kit both provide excellent advice

[BRAVO-SMASH]

Specs:
5'' blade, 4 1/2'' handle, 10 1/4'' total length w/ glass breaker
Blade material is 0-1 steel. Handle is marcarta in urban assault pattern
Sheath custom made by A.M.I.C.K. Tactical w/ classic "pull the dot" buttons

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This knife feels great in the hand. The marcarta was ground out for my fingers so its very ergonomic. It's also not too heavy but still feels durable. The sheath was a surprise. Apparently both the knife smith and tailor live less than a few miles from each other and are in the same Co. As I pointed out in a previous post, incredible talent both these men have.

[x SF med]

Bravo-Smash... it looks a little different than the drawing. Nice knife, congrats on the final product.

[BRAVO-SMASH]

Bravo-Smash... it looks a little different than the drawing. Nice knife, congrats on the final product.

I knew that my ideas would be interpreted in his own way when creating the knife. It turned out better than I thought. He was so impressed with his own work, he almost didn’t want to give it up. This knife was his first sale so I feel Privileged to be contributing to another QP up and coming business. He will be going to the knife show in Eugene, OR next weekend. I offered to let him borrow my new knife :cool:.

[Claemore]

Very nice knife. I especially like the handle and sheath.

[Bill Harsey]

D*mn, more competition from the "community" :D
That's a rugged looking piece of work. How does it cut?

I like the designer micarta too.

[x SF med]

I knew that my ideas would be interpreted in his own way when creating the knife. It turned out better than I thought. He was so impressed with his own work, he almost didn’t want to give it up. This knife was his first sale so I feel Privileged to be contributing to another QP up and coming business. He will be going to the knife show in Eugene, OR next weekend. I offered to let him borrow my new knife :cool:.



Ummm... you better be there too, or I might buy it from him... or have Mr. Bill and mcarey crush him and then I'll just steal the knife for myself:D

Hmmm, maybe no crushing will be needed... I could just steal it.:p

[Bill Harsey]

Ummm... you better be there too, or I might buy it from him... or have Mr. Bill and mcarey crush him and then I'll just steal the knife for myself:D

Hmmm, maybe no crushing will be needed... I could just steal it.:p

x SF med,
You probably better just steal it. I'm not going to cause stuff with guys from
1st SFGA, they don't play fair. oh wait...none of you all do. :eek:

[x SF med]

x SF med,
You probably better just steal it. I'm not going to cause stuff with guys from
1st SFGA, they don't play fair. oh wait...none of you all do. :eek:

I'll get mcarey to help me steal it, he was 1st Group, ah, the SFA Chapter here is mostly 1st Group, maybe I don't need any more lessons.:eek:

[BRAVO-SMASH]

I guess you can only take so many pictures of a knife but took it out to the range today to do some door breaching. Figured I would wear it and get a feel for the knife in full kit. I forgot it was on at some points. I could hardly feel it. Still easily accessible with kit and gloves and didn't notice it when sitting in the HMMWV. My knife... is AWSOME!:lifter

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[x SF med]

Bravo...
did momma clear you hot for the knife show this weekend?

[LibraryLady]

Hmmm... That looks like it will fit my hand. ;)

Have you beat up on it any?

Better make sure that thing is well guarded if it comes down to OKC - :D

It'll probably come back to WA, but a bit further north than the Ft Lewis area. :p

LL

[BRAVO-SMASH]

The knife and it's maker will be at the show this weekend. Unfortunately, I will not be able to attend due to SFAUC training (It's really good training anyway:lifter).

[x SF med]

The knife and it's maker will be at the show this weekend. Unfortunately, I will not be able to attend due to SFAUC training (It's really good training anyway:lifter).

I hate you.

Oh, btw, I'm the new pledge chairman for SFA Ch XVI, Join dammit, and get your buddies to join...

[S.Gossman]

Very nice Bravo. Love the micarta. What make sheath is that?
Scott

[BRAVO-SMASH]

Very nice Bravo. Love the micarta. What make sheath is that?
Scott

Let me refer you to post #12 of this thread...

Specs:
5'' blade, 4 1/2'' handle, 10 1/4'' total length w/ glass breaker
Blade material is 0-1 steel. Handle is marcarta in urban assault pattern
Sheath custom made by A.M.I.C.K. Tactical w/ classic "pull the dot" buttons

[Kit Carson]

In the FWIW category, it's always best to not show the original design drawings. Wait until the final knife is finished.

Knifemakers don't make mistakes...we just modify existing patterns..:)

Nice looking knife. Keep us posted on how it performs.

[x SF med]

Bravo-Smash... Opie let me ruin your knife by scraping it across a few stones, sorry about that. :p Let me know if it bites you now that it's got teeth.

This is one nice knife, comfortable in the hand, well balanced, and takes an edge well. I actually put one on order for myself.

[Sierra Bravo]

All in, what was the final cost?

Great looking knife

[LibraryLady]

I thoroughly enjoyed handling your knife and especially like that it is comfortable in my small hand.

Am debating putting in a special request from the knife maker for one of my own. In pink. :D

LL

[x SF med]

All... we should be directing questions about the manufacture, final design, and cost to a new board member... CrusaderSteel.

I hate to say it, but the boy who looks like Opie (I will end up wearing one of his knives, probably through my liver) has got some talent... C'mon CS... post some pics of the other knife you brought to OKC...:lifter

[Bill Harsey]

All... we should be directing questions about the manufacture, final design, and cost to a new board member... CrusaderSteel.

I hate to say it, but the boy who looks like Opie (I will end up wearing one of his knives, probably through my liver) has got some talent... C'mon CS... post some pics of the other knife you brought to OKC...:lifter

You might think he looks kinda like Opie but if I was still logging, I'd want him on the crew to pack heavy stuff... over long distances.:D

[x SF med]

You might think he looks kinda like Opie but if I was still logging, I'd want him on the crew to pack heavy stuff... over long distances.:D

C'mon Bill... I wan't denigrating him, I was being kind... I didn't call him "Howdy Doody";)... and you are correct, he would make an outstanding Sherpa or Pack Mule, as long as he brought his knife making stuff with him.:D

[Dozer523]

I've enjoyed following this thread. I agree the knife turned out really nicely. Here is my question:
This carry position, on the lower back, is unfamiliar. Pluses? Minuses? Problems? Advantages?

[BRAVO-SMASH]

I'm glad you got to handle it and see it in person. It really is a nice piece of work. I'm surprised it made it back :p! I really do appreciate the sharper edge on it too. Just makes it that much better. Thanks x SF med. Also got this back from Mr. Harsey...

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So thank you for making my Yarborough that much more special.

[BRAVO-SMASH]

I've enjoyed following this thread. I agree the knife turned out really nicely. Here is my question:
This carry position, on the lower back, is unfamiliar. Pluses? Minuses? Problems? Advantages?

I'm sure that many of you have seen some soldiers around that carry knives on their kit. Either for an MRE opener or a last resort combat knife. I've seen some knifes (small swords) on some soldier's kits that have NO tactical application or thought what so ever. They think it looks cool. Personally, I feel that having a knife presented on your kit is a bad idea. If in the unfortunate event that you find yourself in a scuffle, I most definitely would not want Hajji grabbing my knife before I do to use. So to mitigate that scenario, I strapped it to the small of my back where it’s out of site but easily obtainable. Especially in full kit. Only thing about having there is that I forget I have it on sometimes! So I just have to train with it.

[cobra22]

My dad bought me this knife for my birthday from Downing Custom Knives it came with a very similar sheath to my Yarborough knife. I tried the lower back placement and it worked out great. :D I had originally placed it on my rig, right hand side. Thxs for idea.

[Bill Harsey]

I've enjoyed following this thread. I agree the knife turned out really nicely. Here is my question:
This carry position, on the lower back, is unfamiliar. Pluses? Minuses? Problems? Advantages?

Dozer,
Carry positions are one thing I rarely suggest but always carefully listen to what those who have to wear the gear say.
If foggy memory serves it was Al Mar (former 1st SFGA) who many years ago discussed with me the horizontal back carry sheath.

Concern for this carry: Does the sheath retain the knife well enough so that when the user reaches for the knife it is still there?

my past includes a few years of work of climbing, sliding and falling on rough ground and stuff not well attached tends to get sheared off. Walking up or down a thousand vertical feet attempting to re-trace footsteps while looking for stuff, and this isn't news, sucks.
In situations troops are in, this often may not be possible.

[JJ_BPK]

I've enjoyed following this thread. I agree the knife turned out really nicely. Here is my question:
This carry position, on the lower back, is unfamiliar. Pluses? Minuses? Problems? Advantages?


While I defer to the younger generation on any gear related topic, I carried a S&W M-10,, 4inch revolver. I purchased a holster from a local shop in Tay Ninh, The holster looked more cowboy than not. I taped my Randall to the back of the sheaf, just high enough to allow me to grab either the Knife or pistol. All was mounted on my GI pistol belt, w/H harness and the normal assortment of toys. I carried a 1 qt canteen on the left to off-set the weight.

Looks like someone is copying a similar rig,, although theses are thigh mounted.

http://www.redhillsheaths.com/id5.html

I am not sold on thigh mounts for anything,, but it may be convenient to some..

This discussion goes way back, along with the "best" boots and "correct" shapo:

http://truewest.ning.com/profiles/blogs/knife-sheath-amp-holster

As long as you don't lose your gear and don't look like Rambo...

My $00.0002

UPDATE: I just perused some of the sheaths Red makes and spotted this rather novel & unique way of mounting your sharp-n-pointy thing...

http://www.redhillsheaths.com/id3.html

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

"Originally Posted by Dozer523
I've enjoyed following this thread. I agree the knife turned out really nicely. Here is my question:
This carry position, on the lower back, is unfamiliar. Pluses? Minuses? Problems? Advantages?"



I carried a 4 inch bladed 'Western" in a leather sheath which I had woven a longer belt loop for that ran about half the distance of the sheath. this allowed the sheath to be positioned horizontally on the belt. It never caused any problems and road well in the small of my back. easy and quick access and was near invisible . didn't inter free with the ruck or ever rub the wrong way beneath the ruck. I carried that particular knife for over 12 years every where.

[highspeedmdd]

I am late in posting...just found this thread...

As a fomer 18D, I might be a little concerned that if you suffer a fall, the knife might be in a really good spot to fracture your pelvis...you might want to ask your team doc what he thinks...

[CRUSADERSTEEL]

I am concerned that if you suffer a fall you might get hurt in a number of ways. I trained Bravo-Smash to NOT FALL! JJK probably a valid point.

[BRAVO-SMASH]

I am late in posting...just found this thread...

As a fomer 18D, I might be a little concerned that if you suffer a fall, the knife might be in a really good spot to fracture your pelvis...you might want to ask your team doc what he thinks...

I have to agree with CS. There could be a possible number of ways to get injured from a fall. I've seen guys butt stroke themselves in the face and lose some teeth while IMTing to another covered position or guys damn near cutting their fingers off with knives. I’ve put real thought in where I positioned my knife. Having it concealed from anyone verses having it displayed while in a scuffle works for me.

[Go For Broke]

I've enjoyed following this thread. I agree the knife turned out really nicely. Here is my question:
This carry position, on the lower back, is unfamiliar. Pluses? Minuses? Problems? Advantages?

Another place that I have carried smaller fixed blades knives is horizontally, along the front / side of the belt. It allows you to draw the knife similar to a sword with the primary hand, but if necessary it can be drawn with the weak hand in a ice pick grip.

The sheath I used was a kydex sheath, with a swivel type metal clip.

Because it was smaller (the width of the A21 strap) it was never a problem when moving or sitting or lying in the prone.

Just my humble $0.02

V/R,

[swatsurgeon]

Samll of the back carry got alot of bad press for many years...regardless of what was being carried there. A handgun in that position on the belt actually lies in the normal lumber 'curve' or concavity if you will which makes for a natural space between the spine and something hard/flat/etc behind you. The chances of falling DIRECTLY onto the object on your belt and having it perfectly sandwitch between your spine and what ever you fell on is slim to lower than slim.....so the chances of a nasty spine injury are really small. Also, the object is typically not 100% stationary and will shift to any area of soft tissue/muscle that will absorb some of the impact. As far as the similiar situation for your sacrum (top of pelvis), slim chances there also...not zero, but small.

If you are doing a job that has a higher risk of falling backwards over every other direction, may want to avoid that carry position....just common sense.

ss