View Full Version : combat question
DntTrdOnMe
03-31-2010, 15:17
Do most special forces operators see combat in their SF career?
I do not intend this question to come across as immature. This is simply a question that has been on my mind for a while now and I have been unable to find an answer anywhere.
The Reaper
03-31-2010, 15:27
Do most special forces operators see combat in their SF career?
I do not intend this question to come across as immature. This is simply a question that has been on my mind for a while now and I have been unable to find an answer anywhere.
DTOM:
We generally advise new members and guests to search and read for a while before starting new threads. Idle curiosity is a dangerous reason for posting a question.
I believe that is mentioned in the stickies.
Word to the wise.
TR
DntTrdOnMe
03-31-2010, 15:36
Will do TR, Thank you. My curiosity got the better of me, I apologize.
Blitzzz (RIP)
03-31-2010, 16:20
Wasn't that a TV show with Vic Marrow?
I've seen it.
Wasn't that a TV show with Vic Marrow?
I've seen it.
And we all knew what happened to the New Guy.
About the same result as being a Red Shirt on the landing party.
Team Sergeant
03-31-2010, 17:08
Do most special forces operators see combat in their SF career?
I do not intend this question to come across as immature. This is simply a question that has been on my mind for a while now and I have been unable to find an answer anywhere.
We are known as soldiers, not "operators". Mall security guards are also known as "operators", but they are not soldiers. Contractors call themselves "operators" and many are former mall security guards, and many were never, soldiers. Paintball players also call themselves "operators", but they are never referred to as Special Forces soldiers.
To answer your question, if you are currently in the Special Forces, (Special Forces is not a generic term as it refers to one and only one unit) I would say your chances of seeing combat are very high.
We are known as soldiers, not "operators". Mall security guards are also known as "operators", but they are not soldiers. Contractors call themselves "operators" and many are former mall security guards, and many were never, soldiers. Paintball players also call themselves "operators", but they are never referred to as Special Forces soldiers.
To answer your question, if you are currently in the Special Forces, (Special Forces is not a generic term as it refers to one and only one unit) I would say your chances of seeing combat are very high.
The term “Operator” is not new and does refer to SF ODA guys. It started here in 10th Group when we picked up the CIF, most likely a bleed over from working with the varsity boys. Seldom in my 22 active years in SF with 16 of it on a team did we refer to ourselves as Soldiers.
greenberetTFS
04-01-2010, 14:15
Wasn't that a TV show with Vic Marrow?
I've seen it.
Hey Blitzzz,that was the only war series my dad would watch after he served in WW2.....:) He liked it!..........:cool:
Big Teddy :munchin
Team Sergeant
04-01-2010, 14:28
The term “Operator” is not new and does refer to SF ODA guys. It started here in 10th Group when we picked up the CIF, most likely a bleed over from working with the varsity boys. Seldom in my 22 active years in SF with 16 of it on a team did we refer to ourselves as Soldiers.
I know exactly where the term came from, the Rangers that were not SF but working in a SF unit, well it used to be. It's bled way too much and morphed into any air-breather that can carry a weapon. I never heard it used outside of that special place......;)
I know exactly where the term came from, the Rangers that were not SF but working in a SF unit, well it used to be. It's bled way too much and morphed into any air-breather that can carry a weapon. I never heard it used outside of that special place......;)
Right you are. It's used too much now, but I still like to refer to our Brothers as SFers or "the boys".
The term “Operator” is not new and does refer to SF ODA guys. It started here in 10th Group when we picked up the CIF,....
Very, very, very few times did I ever hear SF guys refer to themselves as "operators" while I was in the 5th Gp in the 70s 80s and early 90s.
The usual user was one who liked to showboat around and usually had a team sergeant wondering where he run off to.
Operators? Jeeeze, this harkins back to the Beeper Boys and Bennigans for Happy Hour.
Basenshukai
04-02-2010, 10:53
Operators and Soldiers:
The term "operator" is rarely used inside of the US Army Special Forces (SF) community. At least, not in a formal sense. In passing, a team member may be referred to as a "true operator", and that may imply that his professionalism is at its peak in every respect, but that is about the extent of where I've heard the term used by other SF Soldiers.
At times, when working with organizations outside of the US Army SF community - like in a joint environment - other service representatives may use the term "operator" (again, informally) as a way to distinguish a Special Forces Soldier from others within the context of an operation. For instance, a US Navy Surface Warfare, or Special Warfare officer may say, "So, you can infil a couple of your operators here, while this squad from the infantry platoon secures this access to the objective ..."
The term, as I have experienced it, has become a sort of verbal short hand for referring to SF Soldiers by some outside of the community. Again, it's not a term that I've seen used by us, referring to ourselves. More commonly I've heard "team guy", or "team mate" used than the term "operator". I've seen the term "operator" more commonly accepted and used within the Naval Special Warfare community than anywhere else. But, it makes sense to me as they are not technically Soldiers - in the Army sense - and the term "commando" is not used much outside of Europe when referring to SOF.
Combat:
Looking at the common operating picture at the macro level, most of SOF is heavily involved in current operations in either offensive or shaping operations designed to fulfill some operational or strategic goal. Both offensive and shaping operations involve a degree of risk relative to the mission, enemy, terrain ,troops available, time available and civilian considerations (METT-TC) influencing the situation.
Let us not forget also the second and third order effects that can result at the diplomatic/political level when operating at the operational, and more commonly for SOF, at the strategic level. As these latter risks increase, they typically tend to increase the restrictiveness of the rules of engagement, and other operational constraints and limitations that, while safeguarding the over-arching goals of the mission, may also place the SOF personnel in situations of increased risk.
As of late 2009, US Army SF shared nearly 78% of all combat losses for all of SOF; not including any losses to special mission units. US Navy SEALs, by comparison, had the remaining 22% share of that tragic statistic. Direct combat employment is relative to the SF Group involved because of assigned areas of responsibilities, but I will not make that analysis here. Because of this, some SF Groups are more at the tip of the "direct combat" spear than others. But, all are involved in the overall effort of current combat operations, whether that'd be offensive or shaping operations.
In the end, if a person is assigned to a US Army Special Forces unit as a qualified SF Soldier, the chances of being involved in direct combat is, in my personal estimation, probably about 80%.
greenberetTFS
04-02-2010, 11:09
I don't know,when I was in I never heard the term "operator" ever being used......:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
I've heard the use "operator" in the TV show, the UNIT,...
god's honest truth!
Dozer523
04-02-2010, 17:30
Operators? Jeeeze, this harkins back to the Beeper Boys and Bennigans for Happy Hour. Boy, Pete! does that bring back memories.
I was in Bennigans so much I had the pay option "Check to Bennigans".
At the end of the month they just gave me whatever was left (after tips).
Operator(s) - never heard it used around Group but it was common among the NAVSPECWARGRUs.
Richard
LongWire
04-02-2010, 17:53
When I was an 18E I hated being referred to as an RTO. :D
Operator is an apples/oranges conversational piece these days. Its gained some traction the last few yrs, where you will hear some refer to SF as SF Operators when delineating between force structure on a given operation. Also commonly used is Team Guys, but that is usually used to differentiate between the green and red hat guys within our organization. Most guys will not refer to themselves as operators.
Boy, Pete! does that bring back memories.
I was in Bennigans so much I had the pay option "Check to Bennigans".
At the end of the month they just gave me whatever was left (after tips).
Bennigans, the highest concentration of concealed carry in one place! What was most funny, was the guy who carried a pager that never worked.
I remember all the SFQC attendees that wanted to throw down with Marcinko to see who was tougher in the early 90's. There were a few dull knives in the drawer. This was right after Rogue Warrior came out.
Dozer523
04-02-2010, 21:02
Operator(s) - never heard it used around Group but it was common among the NAVSPECWARGRUs.
Richard Maybe because "NAVSPECWARGRU" is hard to pronounce when your drunk.
Maybe because "NAVSPECWARGRU" is hard to pronounce when your drunk.
Could be because it's more than 3 syllables too.:D
Utah Bob
04-03-2010, 06:37
NAVSPECWARGRU? Whuzzat? My Romanian's a little rusty.
NAVSPECWARGRU? Whuzzat?
Naval Special Warfare Group - SEAL, SDV, SBU
Only operators I ever heard of in the Army either worked at the telephone exchange or were bar hopping lotharios looking to run up the score on their personal 'coup count'.
Richard
greenberetTFS
04-03-2010, 09:40
NAVSPECWARGRU? Whuzzat? My Romanian's a little rusty.
Same here!......... :confused: One thing about this forum is you can really learn a lot about stupid $hit!........... :rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
Green Light
04-03-2010, 10:22
I remember all the SFQC attendees that wanted to throw down with Marcinko to see who was tougher in the early 90's. There were a few dull knives in the drawer. This was right after Rogue Warrior came out.
Marcinko didn't do SEALs any good with his way of doing things. I think those guys have come a long way. They may not have the best doctrine in USSOCOM, but they make up for it with smarts and courage. We always referred to the book as Pogue Warrior.
Folks get the wrong ideas about what special warfare is about from stuff like that. I learned what the real stuff was from guys like Blitzz - real pros.
Dozer523
04-03-2010, 10:22
Same here!......... :confused: One thing about this forum is you can really learn a lot about stupid $hit!........... :rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin Teddy, You Rock!
blue02hd
04-03-2010, 14:56
I noticed during my time in the Q the second time around (I went for the knife, and it was worth it) that the term "Operator" was used alot by our CA and Psyop counter parts. I thnk they must be influencing the younger 18X's and such,,,
"Spiderman suit" was used alot as well, but that remains classified as charges have yet to be filed,,,,
Both terms are a source of amusement imo.
Dozer523
04-04-2010, 09:38
I noticed during my time in the Q the second time around (I went for the knife, and it was worth it) that the term "Operator" was used alot by our CA and Psyop counter parts. I thnk they must be influencing the younger 18X's and such,,,
"Spiderman suit" was used alot as well, but that remains classified as charges have yet to be filed,,,,
Both terms are a source of amusement imo. Lots of amusing stuff associated with the "little bro" and the "crazy bro".
"operator operator-put me through to Decatur......"
Good honky tonk song.
ZonieDiver
04-07-2010, 21:36
This is my favorite "operator"!
Utah Bob
04-07-2010, 21:49
This is my favorite "operator"!
Snort!:D
Buffalobob
04-08-2010, 12:35
Operators are highly trained and blend in with the indigenous population. You just never know who they are.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n168/bufflerbob/year%202010/operator.jpg
The Reaper
04-08-2010, 12:47
Operators are highly trained and blend in with the indigenous population. You just never know who they are.
Tower of Terror elevator?
TR
Utah Bob
04-08-2010, 16:44
Operators are highly trained and blend in with the indigenous population. You just never know who they are.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n168/bufflerbob/year%202010/operator.jpg
Now by God that's a uniform!!:D
Now by God that's a uniform!!
Looks like it may require a large container of Brasso for all those buttons. Do they still use brasso?
tom kelly
04-10-2010, 17:30
Seeing combat and being in and a part of combat are two entirely different things: OPERATOR, he is the MD in the Surgical Suite taking the lead out of your chest or attaching your arm or leg back on to your body after you have been in combat. Many individuals can see combat from the camera in a drone that is flying over the battle and broadcasting the pictures back to the GREEN ZONE. Just my .02
Utah Bob
04-10-2010, 18:19
Looks like it may require a large container of Brasso for all those buttons. Do they still use brasso?
Old Blood & Guts would be proud.:D
We are known as soldiers, not "operators". Mall security guards are also known as "operators", but they are not soldiers. Contractors call themselves "operators" and many are former mall security guards, and many were never, soldiers. Paintball players also call themselves "operators", but they are never referred to as Special Forces soldiers.
To answer your question, if you are currently in the Special Forces, (Special Forces is not a generic term as it refers to one and only one unit) I would say your chances of seeing combat are very high.
Not to beat a dead horse, but last Friday at the 2/10 SFG (A) Change of Command, the Group Commander COL Swindell address the Bn on the field as " Soldiers and Operators" clearly making a point to address those on the an ODA and those who support them. In his defense he does have a Ranger background.
TruePatriotNH
04-27-2010, 04:07
Wasn't that a TV show with Vic Marrow?
I've seen it.
Morrow, actually, and Rick Jason was the Lt. ..... and Kirby had the B.A.R........ somebody STOP ME!
ZonieDiver
04-27-2010, 10:37
Yeah, and Kirby was a small-statured man, while "Little John" was huge - made the M-1 Garand he toted look tiny. Musta not been able to hit crap with the BAR!
Of course, the "new guy" on each episode of combat had about as much chance of surviving to the end as did the new "security guy" who beamed down to the planet's surface with Capt. Kirk and Mr. Spock - along with Uhruh, that Russian ensign, Scotty, and Sulu - the whole command structure of the Enterprise. :D
greenberetTFS
04-27-2010, 13:55
Seeing combat and being in and a part of combat are two entirely different things:
Agree...
Big Teddy :munchin
Green Light
04-27-2010, 15:29
I've seen 30 or 40 space launches. That doesn't make me an astronaut. Combat's the same way. So I hear. :D
If today and tomorrow are anything like the past, most will experience some form of combat at some point, some will experience more than they ever expected or ever wanted, and some will experience none at all. It is what it is, what it always has been, and what it most likely always will be.
In education, they say there are never any dumb questions...but...
And so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin
SkiBumCFO
04-27-2010, 21:11
Operator Moperator who cares :) could be a seal or could be that elevator guy. I agree with Don we always said SFers but Don is my Chapter president so i have to say that I agree with him :) only time I ever heard the term operator in the 20th century was when we would get assigned to some of dem funny sounding acronymee type units and it usually came from the higher ups but must admit never gave it much thought back then but I truly believe it is pretty lame now. Thank you all for reminding me of Bennigans in the 80s that place to used to crack me up (and the thought of it still does) with so many physically fit emergency room doctors in one bar - made me want to get back to Devens as soon as possible.