View Full Version : Double Decanting
I recently saw this, apparently a trick used by Robert Parker. I've never seen it done in Europe, but I'm not sure if it is common in the US. In the interest of posterity, I'll post it.
This is a trick for fine/older wines with sediment. Often, inexperienced guests will pour their wine incorrectly and accumulate a large amount of sediment in their glass, or distribute the settled sediment around the wine bottle. This ruins the wine (although sediment is healthy). To avoid this, many decant their wine into a decanter, which also helps the wine breath. However, this means that the guests cannot see what wine they are drinking because the decanters lack labels.
To remedy this, Double Decant.
1) Clean out decanter with water, smell to ensure that it is clean.
2) After opening, wipe mouth of bottle with wet rag to remove dirt/dust. Not a step everyone performs, can contaminate wine.
3) Decant carefully, leaving the sediment in the shoulder of the bottle. May have to leave a bit of wine in the bottle to avoid pouring sediment into the decanter.
4) Wash wine bottle thoroughly with water. Try not to let water get on outside of the bottle and ruin the label (defeats purpose of exercise!).
5) Using a clean funnel, pour the wine from the decanter back into the bottle. If you need to let the wine breath, leave in decanter for a while before performing this step.
I have no clue how useful this trick is, but Parker is an expert on wines and it seems practical.
HTH,
Solid
*legal in the UK*
Roguish Lawyer
07-29-2004, 22:35
I think that is stupid. Just display the empty bottle next to the decanter. :rolleyes:
RL, we had a huge dinner party last night. Trust me, with many guests that's just not a possibility, both because of space and because guests move things around. If you're drinking great wine, I think it's important for people to drink the same wine together, know what wine they're drinking, and therefore be able to discuss it.
That's just me, though.
Solid
Originally posted by Solid
5) Using a clean funnel, pour the wine from the decanter back into the bottle. If you need to let the wine breath, leave in decanter for a while before performing this step.
Several years ago I attended a wine class taught by internationally known wine expert Sherwood Deutsch. He was a strong advocate of using cheese cloth to pour the wine while decanting. He argued that any contact with metal would leave the wine with a slight metallic taste and thereby hinder a full assessment. I suspect a plastic funnel cleaned in only hot water is fine for decanting.
However, decanting does not improve the quality of the wine and thus is not necessary unless you object to small particles floating in your glass. Instead allowing the wine to “breathe” is much more important and failing to do so can dramatically impact the taste. That is the single biggest mistake most folks make in serving “good wine.” Pop that cork anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes prior to serving. If the wine is of poor quality, you will not notice any substantial change between 30 seconds and 45 minutes; however, if it is excellent wine and aged appropriately you will definitely notice a rather dramatic increase in the subtlety and flavor.
Roguish Lawyer
07-30-2004, 08:10
Originally posted by FILO
However, decanting does not improve the quality of the wine and thus is not necessary unless you object to small particles floating in your glass. Instead allowing the wine to “breathe” is much more important and failing to do so can dramatically impact the taste. That is the single biggest mistake most folks make in serving “good wine.” Pop that cork anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes prior to serving. If the wine is of poor quality, you will not notice any substantial change between 30 seconds and 45 minutes; however, if it is excellent wine and aged appropriately you will definitely notice a rather dramatic increase in the subtlety and flavor.
FILO, the principal purpose of decanting is to let the wine breathe, not to remove sediment (although decanters help with that also). Wine won't breathe much if you just open the bottle. If you aren't going to use a decanter, at least pour a half glass of wine to get some air into the bottle, then let it breathe in the bottle.
Roguish Lawyer
07-30-2004, 08:19
Originally posted by Solid
RL, we had a huge dinner party last night. Trust me, with many guests that's just not a possibility, both because of space and because guests move things around. If you're drinking great wine, I think it's important for people to drink the same wine together, know what wine they're drinking, and therefore be able to discuss it.
That's just me, though.
Solid
I don't know what you mean by "great wine," but I think it is foolish to screw around with it too much. Spill risk alone makes your suggestion a bad one IMO. There are plenty of ways to identify wine in decanters.
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
FILO, the principal purpose of decanting is to let the wine breathe, not to remove sediment (although decanters help with that also). Wine won't breathe much if you just open the bottle. If you aren't going to use a decanter, at least pour a half glass of wine to get some air into the bottle, then let it breathe in the bottle.
My remark about the pros and cons of decanting was in regards to the comment that the sediment would ruin the wine, it doesn't. Yes decanting does help in allowing the wine to breathe, but so does opening the bottle, so does pouring the wine into a glass and finally so does swirling the wine in your glass prior to sipping. Decanting speeds up the process of "breathing" but I have never experienced a difference between allowing a full bottle to sit for 35 minutes versus decanting. My taste buds are not that refined. IMO decanting is a good idea if you open an aged fine wine and you plan on drinking it immediatley.
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I don't know what you mean by "great wine," but I think it is foolish to screw around with it too much. Spill risk alone makes your suggestion a bad one IMO. There are plenty of ways to identify wine in decanters.
Agree 110%, RL!!!
RL, I'm attending a large wine tasting tonight, and will see how they handle things. It's wine and dinner, which is uncommon, but will be a particularly suitable test. All fine wine experts there save myself, who got very lucky.
Solid
brewmonkey
07-30-2004, 16:37
I would guess that the majority of the sediment you are trying to avoid is yeast that has fallen out of suspension over the time in the bottle. It happens to bottle conditioned and unfiltered beers as well.
While the sediment may detract from the drinking experience I can tell you that if it is indeed fallen yeast then it is chock full of B complex vitamins which work wonders on a hangover.
Originally posted by brewmonkey
I would guess that the majority of the sediment you are trying to avoid is yeast that has fallen out of suspension over the time in the bottle. It happens to bottle conditioned and unfiltered beers as well.
While the sediment may detract from the drinking experience I can tell you that if it is indeed fallen yeast then it is chock full of B complex vitamins which work wonders on a hangover.
So one should save the Sediment for the Morning after?
Roguish Lawyer
07-30-2004, 16:48
Originally posted by Air.177
So one should save the Sediment for the Morning after?
NO!
Hence the health comment. It is also one of the reasons doctors recommend wine for your heart and blood vessels.
Solid
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
NO!
No need to get irritable, Besides, I was talking to Brewmonkey:p
Roguish Lawyer
07-30-2004, 16:52
Originally posted by Air.177
No need to get irritable, Besides, I was talking to Brewmonkey:p
Oh, sorry. Never mind. Go ahead and consume the sediment then. :munchin
It's only sediment, There's probably less than in the average cup of AM's coffee;)
Roguish Lawyer
07-30-2004, 17:09
Originally posted by Solid
RL, I'm attending a large wine tasting tonight, and will see how they handle things. It's wine and dinner, which is uncommon, but will be a particularly suitable test. All fine wine experts there save myself, who got very lucky.
Solid
OK Solid, we will look forward to a comprehensive report first thing tomorrow morning.
Double decanting, all the way. The owner has a special (and rather beautiful) glass funnel that does not flavour the wine at all. I asked several people and they said that for private (3-5ish) people, it is unnecessary to double decant, but for a case of fine wine shared among guests, it is an absolute necessity. They decanted the wine and then let it breath for a very long time.
They also mentioned that it was only strictly necessary if moving between years or vinyards. If you are just using one case during the night, it is generally (generally) okay to decant and leave it in the decanter. However, they said, for very old wines the ageing process will have drastically changed the bottles in comparison to each other, and in this situation you either drink in small company or use colored markers on the neck of each bottle.
Solid
Roguish Lawyer
07-30-2004, 17:55
Originally posted by Solid
Double decanting, all the way. The owner has a special (and rather beautiful) glass funnel that does not flavour the wine at all. I asked several people and they said that for private (3-5ish) people, it is unnecessary to double decant, but for a case of fine wine shared among guests, it is an absolute necessity. They decanted the wine and then let it breath for a very long time.
They also mentioned that it was only strictly necessary if moving between years or vinyards. If you are just using one case during the night, it is generally (generally) okay to decant and leave it in the decanter. However, they said, for very old wines the ageing process will have drastically changed the bottles in comparison to each other, and in this situation you either drink in small company or use colored markers on the neck of each bottle.
Solid
I really don't care what these people think. I want a report on the wine tasting and dinner. Each wine and each course, fully described and with your views. Please. :)
Separate thread, please. :munchin
brewmonkey
07-30-2004, 17:57
Originally posted by Air.177
So one should save the Sediment for the Morning after?
You would need to consume it sooner then that, like right after drinking the wine.
Originally posted by brewmonkey
You would need to consume it sooner then that, like right after drinking the wine.
Thank You Sir.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-30-2004, 19:54
Kinda reminds me of the time when we reverse double decanted a number 10 can full of beer. At least I think that this would count as reverse double decanting. When I was but a wee 2LT defending the Fulda Gap in what was then the Federal Republic of Germany we had a Battalion XO who we referred to as "super weenie". Now this was not because of any physical endowment but because he screwed everything up in which he was involved. Now Super Weenie thought that it was his responsibility to teach all junior officers how to hold their booze. For those of you who were not in the military in the early 60s, happy hours and drunken stupor where signs of great commaradiere back then. So, Super Weenie decided that just drinking beer was no way to demonstrate his prowess so he organized a relay with little kids tricycles where each individual would race the trike the length of the officers club, consume what he could of the beer that was in a number 10 can and then race back passing off the trike to the next contestant. Super Weenie, being a major, decided he needed to set the example so he would take the first and last heat. He dutifully raced down his first leg, drank about half the number 10 can, and raced back handing off the trike to a young LT who couldn't at this time of night hold his dinner down much less a beer. The LT raced down, did his thing, raced back and passed the trike back to Super Weenie who did his next lap. Then the LT did the third lap, did what he could, and raced back handing off the trike to Super Weenie who raced down to the can, lifted it up, and by the surprised look on his face realized that it was fuller than the last time he gulped down what was in the can. This was sort of double decanting in reverse because the LT, rather than taking out the solids, had managed to put heretofore unknown solids into the beer.
Jack Moroney
LOL Colonel! How's THAT for sediment!!
RL- All French and Spanish ("surrenderist") wines, so I'm not sure you really want the details on them. Keeping the forum pure, and all.
Solid
Roguish Lawyer
07-31-2004, 22:52
Originally posted by Solid
RL- All French and Spanish ("surrenderist") wines, so I'm not sure you really want the details on them. Keeping the forum pure, and all.
I still want the report.
Sacamuelas
07-31-2004, 23:45
TR banned Solid to the outskirts of the village due to his footFag toenail painting post in another thread. Me personally, I don't want to see Solid post ANYTHING about surrender wine, food, clausewitz, politics, gear, theories of relativity, etc until his young ass posts about a GIRL!!!
Back away from the snooty parties, six inch thick books, and research on whatever subjects you are studying FOR FUN right now and GO CHASE SOME TAIL. :p
NousDefionsDoc
07-31-2004, 23:47
I tried this, but I couldn't get the damn wine back in the box.
This is just the gayest thread ever!
Sacamuelas
07-31-2004, 23:52
AHHHhhhh.. now that is the good stuff NDD.
ON tap in the fridge... ROTFLMAO!!
The gay is strong in this thread Master....
NDD- ROFLMAO! :D
RL- I'll post in a bit, gotta go labour in the field.
Sacamuelas- You see, the problem is that there isn't a forum for talking about girls...
"The Atypical Guerrilla"?
"Those aren't grenades in her shirt pocket"?
Solid
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I tried this, but I couldn't get the damn wine back in the box.
This is just the gayest thread ever!
How "gayish" can you get? I went to ONE wine tasting, cheese and cracker thingamajig with Scotty. :eek:
"Just give me a beer because...whatever that wine is, SUCKS"!
Hell! Back in the days, we brought White Zinfindel in the five liter boxes and served it out of jelly jars.:D At parties, that way you wouldn't have to get up every five minutes to fill some ladies wine glass.
"RIUNITE RULES"!:lifter
The Reaper
08-01-2004, 07:42
Hell, we just made our own wine from the Scuppernongs and Muscadines that grow on the farm.
Never had a bottle make it into the next year to compare for vintage.
I'm with you, Guy, just pass me the jug and a jelly jar, or wipe the mouth of the bottle off on your sleeve and skip the jar.
TR
NousDefionsDoc
08-01-2004, 09:47
"What's the word?"
"Thunderbird!"
"What's the price?"
".59 twice!"
Old 82nd Motto
Sacamuelas
08-01-2004, 11:01
Originally posted by The Reaper
Hell, we just made our own wine from the Scuppernongs and Muscadines that grow on the farm.
Never had a bottle make it into the next year to compare for vintage.TR
Ah yes... one of my assistants has a blueberry farm. Grandpa Lane makes some superb blueberry wine. Nothing better than good ole USofA homebrew.:cool:
Roguish Lawyer
08-01-2004, 11:04
You guys are cracking me up. Catwoman used to tolerate wine out of a box. Before I ruined her. LOL
Peregrino
08-01-2004, 20:19
You guys haven't seen "gay" until you've been to a wine tasting with an ODA and seen a team full of knuckledraggers watching a real wine expert spitting the dregs into a floor drain! I've seen bulldogs look more intelligent - no problems counting the wrinkles on their foreheads. This guy was actually spitting out something with a measureable alcohol content. The Reaper loaned my team to the company next door for a JTF-6 mission many years ago. The CO of that company had a brother who was a noted vintner and while we were working in Sacramento he came to "inspect training". Being satisfied with what he found he then took the entire team to his brother's vinyard where we got the grand tour, including a private tasting in the cask room with lecture from the master. Wish I could remember names, some of you on the left coast may have heard of it/him (the label was Etude, really good stuff - this was nine years ago, I hope it's still around). We then shared a Greek Orthodox Easter dinner with the family - complete with the rest of the wine. I must admit the adaptability of the average SF Soldier never fails to amaze and always (well - most of the time) does us proud! Even if they couldn't fathom the spitting thing. And the only decanting (after the pro forma stuff) happened in the glass and that didn't last very long. FWIW - Peregrino
Roguish Lawyer
08-01-2004, 22:53
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
This is just the gayest thread ever!