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emptythermos
03-17-2010, 12:19
Im currentley trying to get Carbon Fiber O2 tanks for my team. While I was in JSOM a couple of our instructors talked about them. i researched it online and found out that the Carbon Composite o2 tanks are about 30% lighter than aluminum tanks and they hold more than twice the volume.
I want to make the best choice cause were a bit short on funds. If anyone has them on their team i would appreciate it if you would post a link or something to help me procure some quality bottles.
I need about three to five D tanks. :lifter:boohoo HOOAH!;)

JJ_BPK
03-17-2010, 12:38
What are they used for??

MFF or Scuba??

In the case of scuba, I personally think steel is better for one large reason,, weight. If you use a tank that is 30% lighter,, you will need to add lead ballast to offset the buoyancy.

If it's MFF, just the opposite, almost, you get to jump more MRE's.. :D

last I looked in 2008, there were other issues:

1)Spun-glass tanks have shorter life spans
2)none of the scuba hydro shops in my area would touch them for hydro or annual visual inspections
3)They are very expensive.
4)dive shops won't fill them, non-standard valve
5)they came with valves for air-soft hoses or fire department 1st stages reg, not scuba.

Has the industry changed direction??

emptythermos
03-17-2010, 14:15
Im acctually a medic on a mountain team. I need oxygen tanks for medicine not for MFF or scuba.
Thats why im so adamant about the weight. No ones gonna want to hump an o2 tank up a mountain anyway, but especially so when it weighs 20+ pounds.
But you did bring up a good point about the regulators. I was under the impression that all medical o2 tanks were set up for the same general type of regulator.
Id really appreciate it if the Medics out there would let me know if anyone has these types of o2 tanks.

JJ_BPK
03-17-2010, 14:31
Im acctually a medic on a mountain team. I need oxygen tanks for medicine not for MFF or scuba.
Thats why im so adamant about the weight. No ones gonna want to hump an o2 tank up a mountain anyway, but especially so when it weighs 20+ pounds.
But you did bring up a good point about the regulators. I was under the impression that all medical o2 tanks were set up for the same general type of regulator.
Id really appreciate it if the Medics out there would let me know if anyone has these types of o2 tanks.

Medical O2 tanks use a simple valve the opens with a wrench and allows simple flow adjustments. Depending on the set-up it can be regulated by a machine or just a simple pressure gauge to adjust flow.

There is at least four or five different valves out there for Scuba, close-circuit, and hard-hat diving,, a couple for the fire department, at least two I know of for medical, hi-altitude O2 assist for pilots/MFF probably a couple and air-soft,, that's just in the USA...

If you have the time, you may want to look up the support team S4 for some of the assents to the Himalayas, K2 & Everest. They have to stage O2 and X-tream O2 cold weather gear up the mountain. They probably have a keen sense of load bearing and weight distribution, when it comes to O2.

Good Luck,,

emptythermos
03-17-2010, 15:30
hey thanks man. ive been looking at some of those areas and i need o2 tanks for medicinal use not as supplimental for high altitude. What i mean by that is that i dont need an msa setup like firemen have or a scuba setup. I just need a D size o2 tank for an airway bag. But i wanna get light weight ones so that we can have the ability to use o2 in the mountains in case someone gets sick or injured and not have to hump like 40 extra pounds.
I know that some dudes have them on teams I just need some recomendations, specifcaly where to order them. Which ones are better and possibly some price ranges.

2018commo
03-17-2010, 15:43
I saw the tanks at American Safety Flight Systems in Glendale CA 93-94 time frame. I believe the tank they displayed was for the Space Shuttle bail-out boon-doggle. There is a problem with these tanks, they are aluminum lined and become serious bombs if punctured.

emptythermos
03-17-2010, 15:55
Yeah thats true with any o2 tank and the metal ones will blow up just as easy as the carbon or aluminum ones.

2018commo
03-17-2010, 16:19
The strenght of the carbon fiber combined with the aluminum becoming molten in an o2 environment conserned the folks making the tanks.

TF Kilo
03-17-2010, 18:03
http://www.remotemedical.com/Medical-Rescue-Supplies/Oxygen-Tanks

there you go.

Surgicalcric
03-17-2010, 18:59
The tanks TFkilo linked to are good to go. We used the DD tanks in our airway bags on the buses and loved them.

About the fear of them exploding or becoming a projectile, I used carbon fiber tanks in my SCBA for about 8 years as a firefighter and never had so much as a small issue with them. In fact, I have replaced helmets and turnout gear due to damage received in fires, but never a CF tank.

Crip

JJ_BPK
03-17-2010, 19:13
My $00.0002

You might want to have a little come to Jesus with the company who make the tanks you may purchase.

A 3000 psi bottle at sea level will not have the same pressure characteristics as at altitude when cold.

You need purpose built tanks with guarantees that the manufacture will warrant the tank from catastrophic failures at the maximum target altitude and lowest/highest temperature.

If I sound a bit to concerned, it's because for the last 13 years I have worked at a dive shop. We were very fortunate and had no catastrophic tank failures.

There have been failures in the Keys and we were intimately aware of the effects and consequences. People die from being lackadaisical and inattentive.

The USA Tags & Bags about 150 SCUBA Divers per year. Florida is at the top of the list most years.

Fortunately, I think it's been about 6 years sense the last tank accident.

This guy only lost his arm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lw_fhNAIQc


Be safe, very safe..

Brush Okie
03-17-2010, 22:31
As a warning with the light weight tanks. You have to watch what gets on them. The local FD had some SCBA tanks that were on a trailer that had been cleaned with chrome polish or some other type of chemical. The chemical weakened the tanks and one day they heard a loud explosion in their bay. One of the tanks let loose in the Fire apprattis and blew the door off etc etc. Lucky no one was wearing it or even around these were hight pressure tanks if I remember correctly. All the tanks in were pulled and inspected. Some others were found to be damamged.

incarcerated
03-18-2010, 00:08
Ambu makes a nice little regulator, fairly small, should do the trick. We use the 0 to 15 LPM version.
http://www.ambu.com/COM/Emergency_Care/Emergency_Care.aspx?GID=GROUP55&ProductID=PROD873
I’m home, so I don’t have specs, pricing, or a specific model number handy. Let me know if you need that kind of thing.

We use Mada aluminum bottles. Careful w/ the M3 size, narrow base, sausage shaped tanks: they’re bad news.

We use a couple items from Remote Medical. I can’t say that I’m thrilled w/ their sales rep or service. Their carbon fiber tank is, *gasp!* a little rich for my employer‘s blood.

incarcerated
03-19-2010, 23:05
We’re paying $97 each for Ambu’s stock # 23741000, Economy Oxygen Regulator 15 LPM.

AndyBear
03-21-2010, 14:52
Weight? Bah. If something's too heavy I just make the AF CCT carry it. He already has a 60 pound radio and all those extra snacks that were too heavy for me, what's another 40 or 50 lbs going to matter to him?

Real talk though. I've never personally packed an oxygen tank in the mountains, and I don't see the need truthfully with medevac times and facilities so close. But maybe I'm misunderstanding here. If this is for extreme altitude climbing and not combat like I'm thinking, then I could understand it, and in that case, awesome.

NurseTim
02-01-2013, 19:08
My $00.0002

You might want to have a little come to Jesus with the company who make the tanks you may purchase.

A 3000 psi bottle at sea level will not have the same pressure characteristics as at altitude when cold.

You need purpose built tanks with guarantees that the manufacture will warrant the tank from catastrophic failures at the maximum target altitude and lowest/highest temperature.

If I sound a bit to concerned, it's because for the last 13 years I have worked at a dive shop. We were very fortunate and had no catastrophic tank failures.

There have been failures in the Keys and we were intimately aware of the effects and consequences. People die from being lackadaisical and inattentive.

The USA Tags & Bags about 150 SCUBA Divers per year. Florida is at the top of the list most years.

Fortunately, I think it's been about 6 years sense the last tank accident.

This guy only lost his arm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lw_fhNAIQc


Be safe, very safe..

What is the necropost record? Anyway, I watched the video. It didn't say in the video but it looks like a petroleum product was used with the wrench and a chain vise causing a spark. This would be a no no in all environments where an oxidizer is present.

Whiplash
02-10-2013, 23:22
are you looking at using these in an aid station setting or on patrol/ convoys?

LeapingGnome
03-26-2013, 14:02
I got a chance to play with these a couple of weeks ago. 22-ish minutes at 8 lpm. Not ideal, but they are very portable, non-flammable before being activated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ex9NBlJARs

https://www.rkb.us/contentdetail.cfm?content_id=291635

Non-Explosive Emergency Oxygen Solution 02PAK


Portable Oxygen Generator

Manufacturer: Combat Critical Care
Model Number: not provided
Part Number: P26029
Description
The O2PAK is a handheld emergency oxygen solution for immediate use at the point of injury, under the most severe conditions (search-and-rescue in hard-to-access areas, swat teams, peacekeeping operations, combat theaters, EOD demining activity etc…) without risk of explosion, in the most remote locations (desert, mountains, disaster zones) without being dependent on external sources, until patient/casualty treatment and evacuation can be achieved.
The single use, self-contained O2PAK is ideal for disaster relief & emergency preparedness situations, anyone exposed to extreme conditions with a high risk of serious injury. Compact and rugged, it is easily activated even under significant stress, delivering medically pure oxygen within seconds, in any position (vertical, horizontal) even changed during operation.
Unlike traditional oxygen solutions which are associated with risk of explosion and logistics challenges, the O2PAK requires no maintenance during 48 months, and is readily available at any time (last minute mission) without having to worry whether it is full or not (no need for refilling or mixing, no need for electricity or recharging battery).
The O2PAK is a sealed unit that does not rely on atmospheric air for oxygen generation and can be activated under the most severe conditions. It can be used up to altitudes of 40,000 feet. The unit is fitted with a hose with a flow indicator so that it can be easily adapted to various type of patient interfaces.
Extensive scientific research and development and testing were done under a wide variety of operational conditions to prove safety and efficacy - these include medical, ballistic, blast and fire tests. The O2PAK has been cleared by the FDA.

KEY CHARACTERISTICS
Length: 9.8 inches
Diameter: 4 inches
Weight: 3 pounds
Flow: 8-4 LPM
Actuation: flow within 4 seconds
Purity: 99% Medically pure (USP) oxygen
Duration: 22 minutes
Shelf Life: 48 Months
Maintenance: None

The O2PAK utilizes a solid state chemical to produce oxygen, a mature technology that is currently in use for emergency oxygen for military and civilian aircraft, and portable breathing equipment. Oxygen is produced by chemical reaction when the activation pins are pulled, releasing a spring-powered striker that ignites the reactant. The reactant is sodium chlorate which produces heat in an exothermic reaction. Once activated the production of oxygen cannot be stopped until the reactant is depleted. The heated sodium chlorate decomposes into sodium chloride (salt) and oxygen gas. In the presence of water, chlorine gas and hypochlorite ions are also produced. Disodium peroxide is used to scavenge the chlorine gas and hypochlorite ions.

Availability: Manufactured on demand
Availability Notes: Manufactured on demand
MSRP: USD 750 + shipping (Minimum order quantity 4; free shipping for quantity 25 and above)
Product Dimensions: 9.8 inches by 4 inches
Weight: 3 pounds
Information Provided By:
Combat Critical Care Corp (CCC)
9671 Irvine Center Dr
Irvine, California 92618
UNITED STATES
Email: info@02pak.com
Website: http://www.o2pak.com/?page_id=13
Page Last Updated: March 19, 2013