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The Reaper
03-06-2010, 23:56
In light of the recent earthquake activity and winter storms, does anyone here keep a Bug/Bail Out Bag (BOB) for their home, work, vehicle, etc.?

Obviously, they can be as elaborate or as simple as desired, and contain whatever you think you would need for some period of time should an emergency occur and you have to leave immediately for somewhere else.

I would expect that people in areas under some significant threat or recurring natural disasters would have them at home and/or in their cars. A prudent plan would not just be for sheltering at home or in place, but should also consider evacuation for any of a multitude of contingencies.

You would expect the BOB to augment your Every Day Carry from your pockets, and whatever else you/your family might need to get by.

Assuming that you have your usual EDC of ID, credit cards, cash, a cell phone, knife or multi tool, small flashlight, lighter, possibly a firearm, etc., the kit would, in as small a package as possible, provide shelter, clothing (if necessary), fire starting, illumination, first aid, water, food, spare batteries, tools, ammo, signaling gear, navigational items, repair kit, toiletries, etc.

Clearly, the first step is to identify the disaster (or at least what contingencies) you are preparing for, where you are planning to go/what you are planning to do, what you think you will need, and how long you are going to need to sustain yourself. Then you would need to consider how much that is going to weigh/space it is going to take up, then figure out how to carry it. You might be able to fit it into a cargo pocket, if you are going to evacuate to a well-stocked nearby location by yourself, or it might take a storage tub/large ALICE or three for you and your family to move and live for several days in a possibly austere environment.

I remember my Dad always carried what my Mom referred to as his "junk" in the car whenever he left the house. He had a tool set, jumper cables, rope, flares, maybe an axe, etc. More than once, I remember we (as well as strangers) were all glad that he carried all of that stuff around with him.

If an earthquake, hurricane, nuclear power plant emergency, wildfire, etc. were to happen while you were at home, at work, or in your car, and you had five minutes to pack and evacuate, can you quickly assemble and carry the items you need to make it for a few days till help arrives? Do you have quick access to what you need for life in a shelter, if that is what you plan to do?

If you do, please share what you have prepared for, what you have prepared to grab, and how you plan to carry it.

This could be of interest to others and might serve to help us all focus on our own preparations. Thanks for your input.

TR

Sierra Bravo
03-07-2010, 01:49
How Ironic I was just going through and updating / replenishing my BOB.
I have one for myself and one for my wife plus another packed in our vehicle.
we just grabbed some heavy duty back packs from Goodwill at $2 each, they are compartmentalized into 4 sections plus straps.

This is our all-purpose bug out bag
we made photocopies of all our important documents (i.e. DL,Passport,SSN,BC,MC etc) and place them in a zip lock bag along with emergency cash into the bags. I have a camel back with water purification tablets, field stripped MRE's, First aid kit w/ Persciptions,lighter, steel wool and cotton balls,Map of AO, Lenstatic compass, small crank radio, glowsticks,Disaster plan with rally points / routes and emergency centers,folding Knife,Fixed Blade Knife,multitool,Carbiner clips,ranger bands,paracord,Hand warmers,small led flashlight,extra batteries, Glock + ammo, sanitary / toiletries.
all the essentials fit in this small bag, only weighs a few pounds, I carry mine everywhere, it's always within reach.

Vehicle: Rifle / ammo, non perishable food ,sleeping bag,small tent, water,cooking supplies,axe , all weather gear

14858

14859

LarryW
03-07-2010, 07:34
TR,

First, I need to know if I am going to "shelter in place" or evacuate. If I will evacuate my home will it be for a short period or something longer? When we evacuate we may not know for how long we will be gone. (Of course, "short period" and "long period" are subjective terms.)

In stuffing a "Bug Out Bag" (BOB) I have to consider these things:
1. How long will I be gone?
2. What's the weather going to be like while I'm gone?
3. What about pets…take them with me or turn them out?
4. Availability of prescribed medications while gone (blood pressure, insulin, etc)?
5. Level of self protection? (Can I employ firearms effectively to protect myself, or will they just draw unwanted attention (become pilferable objects that would subject me to increased danger)?)
6. What tools will be needed to sustain/survive?
7. Is my physical condition sufficient to allow me to survive better evacuating or should I shelter in place?
8. If I shelter in place, will I be able to survive more assuredly than I would if I left?

Note: I'm reminded of the French Resistance and the Colonial Patriots in America who, in an extremely dangerous or at least uncomfortable situation, had to stay where they were and adapt to/fight against the imposed ruling force/class.

9. How much contact should I encourage from others? Should I sequester myself or seek out others I can trust?
10. Do I have the knowledge, ability, and resolve to "live off the land" (mainly in terms of hunting and gathering…being able to identify edible flora and fauna)?
11. Do I leave in my Jeep or take the bus?

Of course, each person would have their own individual needs and perceptions that will direct how they prepare a BOB. I admit that I don't have a plan I could execute within less than an hour (perhaps longer), and that in itself is a concern.

Thanks, sir, for making me think.

DevilSide
03-07-2010, 09:51
I don't have a BOB, but in light of this topic and your "wake up call", its really something to consider. I'd say I have most of the stuff I need around the house, I'm prepared for hurricanes, blackouts, and break ins as they are the most common events in Florida. There is a first aid kit in my closet along with one of those retractable batons. I keep a decent knife nearby, not one of those fold out ones, mine's built to last. I have a cell phone, my brother owns a GPS and a M9 and we also keep some MRE's around, not many but it would last us about 2 weeks. Also got some basic tools around the house should we ever need them. If in a hurricane, depending on the severity and path is how we would make our decision. We could wait out some rain and a little flooding, but with something on the level of Katrina, I would possibly try evacuating using backroads with the GPS because the interstate would likely be crowded with early birds and fleeing tourists *and I live in a heavily populated area*, but I'm not too sure where we would go, possibly a hotel in a safe zone as the evacuation site. If not possible, we can wait it out like we would a blackout the best we could. If anyone tried to break in there are more than enough weapons close by and I trust my brother's weapons skills *is a Marine* and if I were by myself I am capable of using the M9, but not sure about the legal stuff as I'm a minor without any kind of permit, I would still use it. If any other situation arose, I'm confident we could survive substantially, but I will take what I've learned and better the organization and have a solid plan. Thanks for the good post, is an eye opener for sure.

akv
03-07-2010, 11:14
Living in a prime urban earthquake area, and having read "One Second After", various posts here, and accounts from the Katrina aftermath, I've started to put together a home bug out bag designed to last about 3 days as I exit the city, I would be grateful for any advice / recommendations.

My bag is an Emdom TNT bag, which I keep next to a pair of running shoes and a TAD Gear jacket.

HK usp 40 w 100 rounds
E2d flashlight
Harsey knife
swiss army tool
passport, cash, spare cellphone
3 Platypus sports bottles
12 Powerbars
Pemmican
small bottle of bleach
BC survival kit
2 pairs wool socks
drywick long sleeve shirt
LightWaterproof parka
boonie cap
small radio
runners glide
aspirin
sunglasses
FM 21-76
SF and California map
a picture of loved ones


Thank You,

AKV

The Reaper
03-07-2010, 12:47
Survival (or just comfort) is not just about having things; it is about having a plan, too.

Larry, all of the great questions you asked are something we each have to decide for ourselves. No point in collecting before planning. If you take two months worth of food, clothing, etc., you will not be able to carry it all. You have to decide what the likely events are that would cause you to have to bug out, and what you think you will need to get to wherever you are going, or whatever you think you need till you are able to return home. Maybe you have to change your gear seasonally (or have multiple kits) depending on the climate and the threat.

Not only did the recent earthquake victims not have an hour to pack, many of them were unable to access their homes after the event. Maybe keeping a spare bag in the car is not such a bad idea. OTOH, most of the potential tsunami areas had longer warning times to prepare. It would appear that a lot of them had not thought ahead and so descended on the local stores to do their disaster prep/SHOPEX then. Given the non-event, it would be interesting to see how many will take this as a hint that they should be better prepared and work on it, versus how many will decide that the whole evacuation and preparation business is a waste of time, except perhaps for stocking more beer. Knowing the Hawaiians, I would suspect that the latter will be the case.

If there is an earthquake, terrorist attack, there may be little warning. Fires, floods, hurricanes, etc. usually provide more notice.

Since we are normally away from our homes at least half of the time, I am leaning toward putting a car kit together. I too, keep a Camelbak ruck on/around me most of the time with first aid, meds, sanitation, ID/cash/credit cards, trash bags, food, clothing, 550 cord, Ziplocs, multi-tool, rain jacket, compass, map, whistle, BIC lighters, flashlights, zip ties, spare batteries, sanitation/toiletries, signaling gear (mirror, panel, etc.) Most of that gear is multi use, and occasionally comes in handy.

I live 30 miles from work, but could top off the water and start walking home in less than a minute without further preparation and without too much difficulty, if I had to. It might be an overnighter, but except for the few very hot or very cold days per year, it would not be too uncomfortable. If I had to hole up in the office, I could go several days without much of a problem.

You should probably do a good area study and threat assessment. This would be a quick sample one:

We live in a geologically stable area, out of the flood plain and on high ground. We are 100 miles or so from the coast. There is a good amount of pine forest on and around our property, but it is managed and there is very little deadfall to burn. Most of the pine straw is harvested regularly and then the areas are controlled burned. We normally get ample rainfall every year. There are severe thunderstorms and occasional tornados in the area. Hurricanes have passed through the community before, usually with winds under 80 kts., but with significant rain events. No known widespread serious diseases or pandemics have occurred here in many years. No volcanoes exist in the area. There is plenty of small game in the area from squirrels to deer. Ponds and streams have ample fish, unless I have a pole out. We live on the edge of town on a dirt road, adjacent to pastures and a state wildlife preserve. My neighbors are unfortunately, unreliable and potentially hostile. I do have a number of SF friends in the neighborhood. The area is moderately populated; total county population is probably 40,000-50,000. Crime is relatively low, the nearest city is Fayetteville (40 miles away), the closest ones of any real size are Raleigh (70 miles), Greensboro (80 miles), and Charlotte (around 100 miles). I do wish at least two of them were further away. There is one significant highway passing through the area, it is US 1. The closest interstate highway is at least 20 miles away, and it is a new, largely rural interstate. The number of people traveling who might be stranded in the area and how they would be supported concerns me, especially after reading OSA. There are several railroads in the area, including an Amtrak stop. Multiple waterways exist, but none are navigable (beyond pleasure craft) in the local area. Climate is mostly moderate, tending toward hot summers with daily high temps usually in the 90s. Winters are usually mild; lows are typically in the 30s. Snowfall averages 7" or so per year. There are a couple large dams within 50 miles, but we are not downstream. A nuclear power plant is roughly 50 miles north, fortunately, the prevailing winds are from the southwest. There is a small state prison hospital roughly 12 miles away, housing roughly 360 inmates, about 2/3 of which are patients. A few could be headed this way, but they would pass a lot of other opportunities along the way. Most, I suspect, would quickly succumb to the lack of care. We are very close to the western end of Ft. Bragg, so there is a 30 mile buffer from main post. Camp MacKall is nearby, but has little impact on the civilian populace. There is a very small commercial airport in town, a military field at CMK, and a couple of private airfields in the area. No large civilian aircraft land anywhere other than the larger regional metro airports at FAY, RDU, GSO, or CLT. We do have some overflights by military fixed and rotary wing. Utilities are reliable, the only power outages are normally from weather causing lines to be down. However, if a large scale disaster occurred, we could lose power indefinitely. There is no local power generation beyond commercial entities and a few small portable units. The municipal water supply is pretty reliable, though we did have a couple of years of dry weather a few years back, forcing restrictions on water use. The local government is working to enlarge its municipal supply sources. There is no local water delivery service except for non-portable construction tanks. If the municipal supply fails, we have some water stored, but the nearest running water is further away than I would like to carry it from. The waste water treatment is reliant upon running water, chemicals, and electric power. Any interruption more than a day or three and chemical toilets and slit trenches will become necessary. Communications are good (except for the remote areas of Bragg), it is rare to lose home phone service. Cellular can be spotty. There is battery back-up and generators for the land lines and cellular system, till the fuel runs out. There are no television stations in the area, even with a good antenna, reception is unreliable. If cable and the satellites go, there is going to be little TV to watch. There are a number of local AM and FM radio stations, and some Ham operators, so broadcast news and information should be available.

(Cont.)

The Reaper
03-07-2010, 12:47
The major local employer is the health care industry, with a good bit of manufacturing and retail. Consequently, health care is good, medical supplies and specialists are ample, and there is a trauma center less than ten miles away. There are more than adequate beds for normal requirements due to the large geriatric population, who would not survive long without the advanced medical care they normally receive. In a major disaster, the hospitals would soon be overwhelmed. I need to ask some friends who work there about their mass casualty preparations. Ambulance service is adequate, but seems a bit slow to arrive considering the distances involved. LE and fire protection services are good. The police and Sheriff's departments are adequate for small town life, but are trying to organize a SWAT unit, which may, or may not be good news. They are armed with the usual assortment of handguns and shotguns. There may be a few carbines in service, but nothing larger. Crime here is mostly minor property crime and illegal drugs. Fire protection is excellent, the nearest station is less than three miles from our home and there is a hydrant 300 feet away. The educational system is above average for NC, with a good community college and several private schools in the area. Our kids go to schools which are four miles or less from our home. The area tends to be conservative and Republican. Local government appears to be effective and moderate. The area was originally settled in the early 1700s by the Scots-Irish. Battles were fought locally during the Revolutionary War and the War of Northern Aggression. Industry in the area has been manufacturing and textiles, with significant agriculture. The soil is sandy loam to clay. Per capita income and demographics trend above the state norms, and are at par or above nationally. There is a large retiree population, which tends to skew the average age upwards. If the Social Security and Medicare checks stopped coming, a large number of locals would probably quickly become indigent. The population is majority white, but there are significant black and Hispanic minorities, along with some Native Americans. The average educational level is skewed by medical industry on the upper side, and the rural agrarians and urban gremlins on the lower side. There are a lot of former and current military personnel living here, including a disproportionate number of SF personnel. That should help in the event of a disaster, and hinder normal governing.:D There are no area civil defense shelters any longer, refugees would likely be directed to the local schools, which are a bit close for my preference. Taxes seem high, but considering the services provided and in comparison to surrounding communities, they are reasonable. We have a large annual tax bill, and a lot of payment slips remaining in the loan book. Hopefully, government employment is steady employment. Long term stability of the national economy and to a lesser degree, the state is a significant concern. There are ample retail stores nearby, though most would be quickly overrun and emptied in an emergency. I would expect cash, food, and fuel to be quickly exhausted. The banks carry little cash on hand; a $10,000 check presentation for cash can require transfers from multiple branches. The ever shrinking number of farms in the area could not support the current population. No large processed food warehouses exist in the area as far as I can tell. There are no large bakeries. Everything comes from one of the major cities listed above. There are no refineries or POL pipelines in the area, everything is delivered by truck, which means if supply distribution fails, the fuel supply will quickly be exhausted. One major gun store is located in the area, along with a number of smaller ones. Ammunition is likely to be the limiting factor. The local population is well-armed and mostly able to protect themselves. This is enhanced by the number of military personnel living in the area. There is no public transportation, beyond hotel and a few community care shuttle buses. There are more people on public assistance and welfare than I would like, especially due to the current economic trouble. Due to the stressed nature of their situation already, I doubt that they have done much in the way of preparation and would expect them to quickly become indigent. Fortunately, we are several miles from the nearest housing project and are not in a natural line of drift. A surprising number of homeless live in the region, it must be the moderate winters. Judging from the court reports every week, there seem to be quite a few addicts in the community, some who may be sustaining their habits with their employment. Should the community become isolated, I would anticipate that they would use up their local supplies within 72 hours, and turn to the numerous pharmacies and the hospital for their needs, quickly resorting to crime. One additional negative is that this is largely a tourist community, and there are a number of hotels/motels. They likely have nothing beyond their platinum cards, fancy clothes, and golf clubs, and if unable to return home quickly, would likely be dependent upon the locals for their needs. Rest homes present similar problems, as the staff would probably soon disappear to care for their own families and supplies would quickly be exhausted. English is the universally accepted language here; few accommodations are made otherwise outside the medical and public services sectors. There is no external or international threat. There are a number of churches of multiple denominations in the community; almost exclusively Christian, there is no religious discrimination that I am aware of. The churches have outreach programs and will do what they can for the needy, starting logically enough with their own members. There are no significant stockpiles of relief aid in the area. AFAIK, the county is marginally prepared, at best, for a minor disaster, certainly not for a major. The mortuary system is inadequate for large numbers of losses. There is probably an adequate amount of heavy equipment in the immediate area for proper disposal of the deceased in mass graves, as long as fuel is available. No local public service helicopters exist, that I am aware of. The major regional hospitals run their own air ambulances and pick up small numbers of critical patients at the hospital. Ft. Bragg has quite a few that could be pressed into service, if authorized, along with significant ground transportation. Unfortunately, that could also be used to transport people out of the urban areas to lessen the impact on their facilities.

That was a cursory shot at an area study; the results of the data should lead you to make better informed decisions about your courses of action in varying scenarios. Whether you plan to shelter in your home or bug out in the event of a disaster should be based on an analysis of your own area study, evaluation of the nature of the threat, time/distance of the relief (if any),and the preparations that you have made. Most of us are at home for 12 hours or so each day. The rest of the time, we would need to return home or head to a new location. The purpose of the BOB is to ensure that you have a plan and the means to lead your life normally, without a supply wagon hitched to your car, and yet be able to get to your eventual destination with a minimum of discomfort.

HTH.

TR

LarryW
03-07-2010, 15:18
Thanks, TR, for the superior example of the detail I should (in some manner) account for in developing "a plan". Especially helpful.

akv
03-07-2010, 17:01
TR,

Thanks as always for your thoughts, an assessment and plan was definitely my first step, though I'm sure it can be improved. San Francisco access is limited by bridges to the north and east which are natural choke points probably best to avoid post crisis. Aside from exiting by sea, the only unobstructed land route is south. Assuming it is best to avoid populated environments post crisis, and to clear datum quickly, my basic plan is to immediately work my way south along the coast,or at least avoiding the main roads if possible, down the wide corridor of the peninsula about thirty miles to the rural Woodside Hills where I have family. Even on foot, in the winter conditions common to this part of the country, I allocated three days to accomplish this, which dictates the contents of my bag. Obviously a lot of folks will come to this conclusion and head south, so I figured mobility and weapons in case of rat packs to be a premium.

I welcome any advice

The Reaper
03-07-2010, 18:01
TR,

Thanks as always for your thoughts, an assessment and plan was definitely my first step, though I'm sure it can be improved. San Francisco access is limited by bridges to the north and east which are natural choke points probably best to avoid post crisis. Aside from exiting by sea, the only unobstructed land route is south. Assuming it is best to avoid populated environments post crisis, and to clear datum quickly, my basic plan is to immediately work my way south along the coast,or at least avoiding the main roads if possible, down the wide corridor of the peninsula about thirty miles to the rural Woodside Hills where I have family. Even on foot, in the winter conditions common to this part of the country, I allocated three days to accomplish this, which dictates the contents of my bag. Obviously a lot of folks will come to this conclusion and head south, so I figured mobility and weapons in case of rat packs to be a premium.

I welcome any advice

In your case, I would look for a friend with a boat willing to help you out.

TR

Grand58742
03-07-2010, 18:51
Good posts so far and especially good questions raised by LarryW.

Something else to remember in building a Bug Out Bag (BOB) is the rules of three. No scientific method here and not everyone is designed the same, so give or take a little bit along the way

One can survive up to 3 minutes without oxyen or during heavy bleeding.

One can survive up to 3 hours without proper shelter/clothing.

One can survive up to 3 days without water.

One can survive up to 3 weeks without food.

Typical disaster will last less than three weeks so food might not be a great concern before relief efforts are in place. But you are still stuck with the first three as being essential to survival.

3 minutes: Do I have a way of controlling heavy bleeding? Or any generic medical emergency? Can I provide rescue breathing to a victim at little risk to myself (CPR mask) before medical professionals arrive?

Lots of times during a disaster/emergency situation injuries are commonplace. A decently supplied FAK is essential for both yourself and others around you. Emergency Medical Personnel will be quickly swamped by the amount of injuries and you might not receive care in a timely fashion like you normally might. Be prepared to perform self aid and buddy care for a wide range of injuries that might go from a minor sprain to controlling heavy bleeding/potential life threatening situations. Training is key and one should be realistic on the amount of FAK supplies they are carrying.

Also included in this are prescription medications. Do you have a decent enough supply you can carry without having to go to the pharmacy and refill?

3 hours: Do I have adequate clothing and an alternate form of shelter?

As LarryW posted, what are the environmental conditions you would be facing? Is it winter, summer, raining, snowing, high desert, etc? A proper BOB should have the ability to layer up in the winter and provide shelter from the sun during the summer. Case in point: The October 1997 blizzard in Colorado. Two people died because they got caught out in the storm wearing shorts and t-shirts as the temperatures had dropped drastically that afternoon. They attempted to walk home after their car got stuck. Proper layers might have helped them along, but also, their vehicle was their shelter and they abandoned it. Clothing should be layered up and comfortable. In some places, winter clothing should be carried at all times.

Also, what forms of shelter do you have available? Are you on foot? Are you in a vehicle? Are there hotels/motels/friends/family you can stay with if you had to evacuate for a long period such as a hurricane? Will your vehicle suffice for proper shelter during a blizzard? Should I be carrying a tent of some sort in case of evacuation? If you are on foot for some reason, can you find shelter during an emergency? Can you carry a poncho and make a hasty shelter to escape rain? Where are the nearest fallout shelters (i.e. terrorist incidents - dirty bombs) along your expected path? Do you want to take a chance in a FEMA camp or be able to do your own thing (like finding a suitable camping ground) in case of an emergency?

This is where the plan of action comes in as well. Proper planning in this situation comes in very handy. Thinking about the conditions you and your family will face is key to building some form of BOB.

3 Days: Do I have enough water to last me three days? Can I carry enough water for three days? Do I have the means of purifying additional water in case none is available? A BOB should have the ability to either carry enough water and/or have the ability to filter/purify more in case the need arose.

3 weeks: Nobody wants to go hungry. Foods and consumables will help keep you strong and is a morale boost. In my BOB, I prefer a mix of wet (MREs, tuna/chicken packs, possibly even canned goods depending on how far on foot you might be going), dry (freeze dried camping foods like Mountain House, instant soups and Ramen) and snack sized items (energy bars, granola, packs of nuts, etc) foods to go. Eat the dry goods when water is available for cooking, the wet foods when water should be conserved and the snack stuff in between. Two good meals a day plus general snacking in between.

And the small packs of Gator-Ade that are designed to mix into a 16 oz bottle. In the wintertime, I also carry hot chocolate or spiced cider packs. Warms as well as provides a boost to morale.

The rules of 3 isn't an all inclusive list as everyone's BOB will be different and based on different conditions and requirements, but this is a good start at building your BOB.

Some of the items that I might consider "essential" and in no particular order. Some can be carried on person but mainly in a pack.

Multitool
Illumination w/ additional batteries
Proper footwear
Fire starting ability x 2
IFAK with pain medications and other OTC meds
Poncho (for shelter or wet weather wear)
Wet/cold weather gear
550 cord
Duct tape
Essential documents (which some like to convert to .pdf and store on a encrypted thumb drive)
Cash (as many ATMs and Credit Card readers will be down during emergency situations)
Pen/Pencil and paper
Emergency signalling device (like a whistle)
Hand sanitizer
Means of navigation x 2 ( I go with a GPS and compass) and map(s)
Spare shoelaces (or additional 550 cord)
Water purification X 2 (filter and tabs)
Lightweight multi-fuel hiking stove or fuel tabs
Metal Cup or small hiking cooking pot. Also the issue canteen cup is an outstanding choice as I believe it is one of the most foolproof and rugged designs on the planet. Heavy, but damn near indestructable
Food x 4 days (always plan on an extra day)
Water container above and beyond a hydration bladder (like a Nalgene bottle, easier to filter water into or wait for the purification time)
And depending on the season, a sleeping bag or poncho liner and pad
And depending on the location, a form of protection (pistol, OC spray, larger knife, etc)

Just a bare basics for me and more will be added in as the situation dictates.

PSM
03-07-2010, 19:04
One thing that I've added to our BO Kit in the car is Mapquest escape routes out of the L.A. Metro area run on surface streets (non-freeway) to the North, South, and East. West is wet.

First, it saves pre-planning when time is limited. Second, and this surprised me, our route to the East took some small roads that almost certainly no one else would consider. Third, it provides an idea as to where convenient rally points can be established, if needed.

We have a fully stocked 17' travel trailer with a gennie and solar panels, but, unfortunately, it's in storage 30 miles away. So, we can't assume that it will be available when, and if, we get to it. This necessitates a fully equipped BOB at home which also gives us the ability to escape West as a self-sufficient (and armed) volunteer crew on a boat.

Pat

The Reaper
03-07-2010, 22:20
If you consider the most likely contingencies, and start with the ones with the most serious consequences, you are on your way to putting together a plan. Also consider that your primary or secondary means of travel could be compromised. Remember PACE, and have alternatives, to include walking. Your BOB should reflect that contingency and have the appropriate items.

Since in my example, the only weather related concerns are hurricanes and tornados, we built our home in excess of code and with a LOT of strapping, tie downs and reinforcement. Sometimes, you can plan ahead and mitigate some of the risk or improve your chances ahead of time. We plan to hunker down and ride it out. Hurricanes give you plenty of warning, so you have time to consider staying or sheltering in place. A BOB would only be necessary if you decided to evacuate or had severe damage to your home and had to move. In both cases, you would have plenty of time to prepare. A tornado is a freak event. It is not likely to occur, and has a small footprint, but if it does hit, you would have little notice. In that case, you would use the BOB temporarily until you had a safe place to return to. People who live in heavy snow and severe cold climates should keep a BOB/kit in the car in the event they are stranded in the vehicle. The rest of the natural disasters like wildfire, flooding, mudslides, etc. span the above gamut of preparation time and impact. The BOB should take all of that into account. As noted, you may need a seasonal change in BOBs.

Earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, etc. are generally limited to specific, known areas in active regions or near the coast, in the case of tsunamis. If you live in an area prone to those events, you probably know it already. A BOB, in that case, would likely be to allow you to get home and assess the damage before deciding to stay or go, or to immediately evacuate the area. These catastrophes specifically, can create serious impediments to travel. Have multiple alternatives to your plan.

WMD attacks are serious business, but are really nothing new. The targeting has changed from strategic military locations to population centers. Here in the country, the odds of a WMD attack are very low. In NYC, DC, or any of the largest cities in this country, you have to consider it as one of your top priorities. The FOGs here remember the Duck and Cover drills. If a WMD were deployed in your AO, you might not be able to return home for a very long time. If it was an all out nuclear attack, you might have nothing but what was in your BOB to survive on for a very long time.

We have all read about the dangers of pandemics and seen the movies. Again, if you live in a remote area, you are much more likely to survive than in a metropolis, due to your ability to isolate yourself and avoid exposure to most pathogens. The BOB would be to get you home, or to a retreat elsewhere. The BOB for such a contingency should consider the threat, and contain masks, gloves, antibiotics, etc., along with the usual items.

Another contingency to consider would be an economic collapse. In that case, you would use the BOB to get to your home or to your retreat. You might want to consider how you would travel long distances and obtain items that you might need along the way.

Finally, you have to consider the routine events that could put you out of your home or office, like a fire, crime, etc. In that case, you would need to be able to get out and get to an alternative place of safety.

The lists that I have seen are good, depending on the plan you intend to execute with them. At the same time, you have to build the BOB lists around capabilities or broad categories of items, like first aid, navigation, signaling, shelter, and so forth. Plan and figure out what you need to do, or be prepared for, then build a BOB kit that supports your requirements. My kit to move 30 miles in my environment is not going to look exactly like the list of a guy in Alaska or Haiti who is trying to prepare for something completely different.

Everyone would like to bring the kitchen sink, till they actually have to lug it around for a few days. Items should have multiple uses, and overlap. Understand the difference between wants and needs. Make your list, and then pare it down to the key items. A long gun would be nice to have, but isn't really practical for most of us to lug around in a case several times per day. 1,000 rounds of ammo would be sweet, till you realize that it weighs 50 pounds. Take a look at what you absolutely have to have to accomplish your mission, and once it is reasonable, find the optimum container for it that allows you to move, and function while carrying it.

Incidentally, if you are living in San Francisco, IMHO, you should have a signaling device, like a whistle, a hammer/hatchet, and a prybar high on your BOB list of goodies to keep handy.

Best of luck.

TR

Maytime
03-08-2010, 02:14
I have more of a bug out "box" for my Jeep, containing all the necessary tools, fluids, parts, etc needed to keep it running in the event that I am unable to bring it to an expert mechanic in times of hardship, like:
- tool box, socket wrench set
- air filter
- oil, oil filter, funnel (8 or 9 qts, I forget how much)
- AT fluid, has separate funnel
- brake fluid
- grease gun, spare grease tubes
- fuse set
- serpentine belt
- coolant
- various gauge wire spools
- replacement bulbs
- electrical tape
- spark plugs (+feeler gauges)
- that tire fluid shit that you use when you get a small puncture
- few cans of WD-40
- cans of compressed air
- rust blaster

I have another box in my Jeep that contains not necessarily survival equipment, but sure do come in handy at times, such as:
- a wood splitter
- duct tape
- 550 cord
- a poncho
- propane grill w/ spare tanks
- cooking utensils
- 37mm launcher w/ flares, smoke, and fireworks rds (only if I am going to remote areas, not included every day)
- huge ass LED Maglite w/ spare batteries
- headlamp w/ spare batts + bulbs
- car battery jump starter (charged regularly)
- 12VDC air compressor that can run off a cigarette lighter socket
- DC-AC power inverter (comes in handy running laptops, etc)
- large area tarp (12'x12' maybe, folds up nicely)
- shovel
- 5 gal water jug
- old fleece
- TOILET PAPER
- small cooler
- crowbar
- binocs
- sleeping bag
- fire starting materials
- small fire extinguisher (hopefully not related to fire starting materials)
- *forgot to add* the requisite CB radio with 6' whip
- *forgot to add* frequency scanner

This may look like a lot of shit, but if I pack it right I still have a decent amount of room in the back without even having to remove the back seat. If I do that, I can fit a litter in the back if the situation so arises, or use it as a de facto bed (the ability to lock the doors when sleeping is nice).

At home I have more of a shooter's box, with all the different kinds of ammo I would need to last me for a few days if shit hits the fan, along with pre-loaded mags, cleaning kits w/ CLP+rags, spare parts, and locks if I have to be away from my firearms at any time (kind of impractical to carry an AR, shotgun, long rifle, and pistol all at once).

I got bored one day and decided to build a snorkel for my air intake, which actually works! Still have to make one for the exhaust, but as long as the engine is running, it will ford up to ~4ft deep slow-moving creeks. It looks ghetto as shit, but $50 at the hardware store goes a long way.

I swear I'm NOT paranoid! I see something and think, "oh that might come in handy some day..." and I have actually used most of the items on these lists at least once, some items a lot.

dr. mabuse
03-08-2010, 17:21
*

TF Kilo
03-08-2010, 23:45
Wall of text

HTH.

TR

I hate to do it to you, but would you mind revisiting your situational outlook on those two posts? I couldn't even track where I was reading using a sheet of paper on the monitor...

Axe
03-19-2010, 10:51
A lot of the information you would want for an area study is likely going to be listed in your city and/or county's Emergency Operations Plan (known by other names as well in some places), which is generally maintained by the Emergency Management Department.

If there is no Emergency Management Department, the Sheriff's office will likely be in charge of the plan.

Your state will have a plan as well.

A friendly call or visit to the emergency manager will often educate you a great deal with the counties plans and assumptions. In most cases, it also makes it very clear that you had better not plan on getting the kind of help from the government that the average person expects to get in a disaster, a concept proven with almost every disaster that has occurred in the US.

One thing to look for in the plan is assumptions the emergency plan makes in regards to household preparedness. Plans I have seen from different agencies have made assumptions of household self-sufficiency ranging anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks.

If you are only set up to take care of your household for 72 hours and your local government, the backbone of emergency response, expects you to take care of all your needs for a week or more, you should know that up front so you can upgrade your planning and resources.

Remember that the Fog of War applies in disasters and government inefficiencies multiply. You will likely be on your own longer than the government's emergency plan expects you will be.

albeham
03-19-2010, 11:19
Remember that the Fog of War applies in disasters and government inefficiencies multiply. You will likely be on your own longer than the government's emergency plan expects you will be.


Been doing the Ham ARES/ RACES stuff for years, and I agree 100% with you on your statement, hell it is a fact!!!!

2 weeks is a very good short time view.


...Look at your long term plan.... :munchin

fng13
03-22-2010, 17:49
I can't offer much in the way of long term survival or living off the land, but growing up in and around garages I can offer I think a little to those of you who might be depending on a vehicle to get you to safety or as part of your long term survival arsenal.

My car survival kit that is the kit just for working on the car contains:

Hammer (lots of things on a car need a little motivation)
Rubber Mallet
Magnetically Charged Flashlight
Small Hacksaw
Socket Set (Complete Metric or Standard, but I keep some of the other JIC)
6" and 10" extensions
One large file
Various Sizes of Screwdrivers (both straight and phillips 3 each)
One Medium Crescent Wrench
One Pair Channel Lock Pliers
One Pair Needle Nose Pliers
One Pair Vice Grips
One Open and Box wrench (1/2 inch)
One Multi-wrench in 3/8 and 3/16
Small Pack of Wire caps and Zip ties
Tape Measure
One Pair Mechanix Gloves

I also have a small generic automotive tool kit that has a small case with
interchangable tip screw driver/socket combo, takedown lug wrench, and 3 open ended wrenches in various sizes and a small crescent wrench

It might seem like a lot but I can fit all of that into a small mechanics bag. It doesn't take up much room at all and doesn't weigh much. It has come in handy on more than a few occasions.

I also keep a small hydraulic jack as opposed to the screw kind in my car, it is only marginally bigger and can hold more weight, more stable, and is easier to manipulate.

I hope some find that helpful for their vehicles survivability.

fng

The Reaper
03-22-2010, 18:19
One thing that I like to keep in my kit that has proven invaluable is a 12v. DC test light.

I would see your car kit (good one, BTW), and add a set of jumper cables, a tire pressure gauge, a can of fix-a-flat, a roll of duct tape, a roll of electrical tape, some 550 cord, a 20' piece of 1" tubular nylon webbing, several sizes of screw drive hose clamps, several feet of fuel line, a few feet of insulated wire, a quart of oil, a short piece of cheater pipe, a tube of JB Weld, a couple of turn signal and brake light bulbs, an assortment of fuses, some heat shrink tubing, a coat hanger or three, a car charger for my cell phone, a headlamp, a big bottle of fuel treatment, a couple of flares, a fire extinguisher, a Woodsman's Pal, an entrenching tool, a folding saw, a lineman's phone, a poncho liner, a couple of emergency blankets, a roll of paper towels, several maps, a GPS, flexcuffs (I mean LARGE ZipTies), a can of OC spray, a couple of extra mags, a SureFire flashlight or two, with spare batteries, rain gear, a hat, a first aid kit, and a one gallon anti-freeze or gas can.

TR

zpo
03-22-2010, 18:58
flexcuffs (I mean LARGE ZipTies)

TR

Large zip ties as a substitute for flexcuffs? What is your opinion on this?
http://www.itstactical.com/2009/09/26/how-to-escape-from-zip-ties/

fng13
03-22-2010, 20:12
One thing that I like to keep in my kit that has proven invaluable is a 12v. DC test light.

I would see your car kit (good one, BTW), and add a set of jumper cables, a tire pressure gauge, a can of fix-a-flat, a roll of duct tape, a roll of electrical tape, some 550 cord, a 20' piece of 1" tubular nylon webbing, several sizes of screw drive hose clamps, several feet of fuel line, a few feet of insulated wire, a quart of oil, a short piece of cheater pipe, a couple of turn signal and brake light bulbs, an assortment of fuses, some heat shrink tubing, a coat hanger or three, a car charger for my cell phone, a headlamp, a big bottle of fuel treatment, a couple of flares, a fire extinguisher, a Woodsman's Pal, an entrenching tool, a folding saw, a lineman's phone, a poncho liner, a couple of emergency blankets, a roll of paper towels, several maps, a GPS, flexcuffs (I mean LARGE ZipTies), a can of OC spray, a couple of extra mags, a SureFire flashlight or two, with spare batteries, rain gear, a hat, a first aid kit, and a one gallon anti-freeze or gas can.

TR


TR

Your post taught me a good lesson, beyond adding things to my kit but to pay attention to replentishing my kit as I use it. When I wrote my post I was looking at my kit, and then looking at your post made me realize I never put Duct/Electrical tape, and my shrink tubing back after I used it up. And I realized I lost my tire gauge:mad::rolleyes:. I thought about putting a coat hanger in there because I've used it several times to open my lock :cool:, just havn't done it yet.


Some other things I would also recommend if you really want to keep your car moving. Some stop leak, carb cleaner, tiger hair (Small Kit) and if you have any experience with it you could get a tire patch kit for when you have time for a little more reliable solution (that would be for when you had time to stop and find the leak its not hard to do and lasts).

fng

zpo
03-22-2010, 20:43
TR

tiger hair (Small Kit)

fng

Is this fiberglass? What would be its use in this situation?

fng13
03-22-2010, 21:03
Is this fiberglass? What would be its use in this situation?

Tiger hair is very tough fiberglass when it dries it is rock hard. Its use in this sort of situation is for sealing leaks you could pretty much temporarily fix any leak you might have with this stuff. If you dont trust it to stop a leak on its own simply cut a peice of metal and fiberglass that over the hole. On a gas tank or something like that it might not be a permanent fix but it might get you the extra miles you need. When using it though I wouldn't get it on anything you don't want it on because its very hard to get off.

zpo
03-22-2010, 21:06
Thank you.

Books
03-23-2010, 21:00
One thing for all to consider for E and E is that one's bicycle can be used to transport large amounts of gear, etc over long distances. Throw your ruck over the cross bar and walk along side it. Worked for Ho Chi Minh; will work for you.

The Reaper
03-23-2010, 21:12
One thing for all to consider for E and E is that one's bicycle can be used to transport large amounts of gear, etc over long distances. Throw your ruck over the cross bar and walk along side it. Worked for Ho Chi Minh; will work for you.

True dat!

You can buy panniers, saddlebags, or just use pieces of pipe or bamboo lashed on to build handles, shelves, or racks. You can put over 200 pounds on one and still push it, if you practice and load it properly.

TR

LarryW
03-24-2010, 07:01
The bike is probably a lot simpler in that they could also be used to move over the ground once the gear was reduced. Here's an option I've been considering.

15034

One thing about using a wheeled device is to include in your BOB a Monkey Grip tire repair kit and a pump.

Peregrino
03-24-2010, 08:06
The Mormons moved an entire "society" (in several waves) with hand carts. It's all a matter of motivation.

Sten
03-24-2010, 08:18
The Mormons moved an entire "society" (in several waves) with hand carts. It's all a matter of motivation.

And smart packing.

Axe
03-28-2010, 13:20
Clothing stored in a Bugout Bag can be greatly reduced in bulk by vacuum sealing them using a home vacuum sealer.

I have a parka, gloves, hat, and socks sealed in separate bags. They take up approximately 25-30% of the space that they did when unpackaged but tightly rolled.

The parka required the use of a continuous roll of sealing material rather than an individual bag. The parka was just a bit too bulky to be able to fit into the largest individual bag that would fit the vacuum sealer I have.

The XXL parka, which was probably 24"X 30" before packaging, is now 8.5" X 20". It looks like a sausage.

As a side benefit, the items are waterproofed as well. As inexpensive as the seal-a-meal material is, I won't think twice about opening them if I need them.

Razor
04-21-2010, 13:45
Just be sure you haven't destroyed the loft in these items by permanently crushing the fill. Flat for packing is cool, flat for wearing...not so much.

fng13
04-24-2010, 13:41
Putting my kit together and just had a couple of questions...

What type of Personal Information would you think necessary to put in your BOB if any? Would you put in originals or copies? How much money, if any?
Is having a storage container or some sort of lock box with more supplies in it worth it?

I live in semi-dense populated area here at school, if something were to happen I would head southeast towards the parents place/girlfriends family. The area at home is mostly rural.

LibraryLady
04-24-2010, 14:00
The Mormons moved an entire "society" (in several waves) with hand carts. It's all a matter of motivation.

And smart packing.

And a better understanding of needs/wants/necessities. Coupled with more practical skills than most people have today - though the people on this board undoubtedly have more skills available.

LL

Green Light
04-24-2010, 14:08
Off the top of my head, here's what I'd have:

Passport
Certified copy of birth certificates of all family members
Certified copy of your and spouse's last will and testimate
Certified copy of any medical advanced directives or living will
Copies of insurance policies
Copies of deeds or other documents related to properties
Copies of immunization records

I also have about $750 dollars in cash (if there's a general breakdown, or if there's something catastrophic, my debit/credit cards will be worthless)

I also have $3000 in French Rooster gold coins (by weight, not face value) that we'll take along

Each family member has their own backpack. (I also keep a 72 hour kit at work) The above stuff is kept separate from the individual kits.

Green Light
04-24-2010, 14:53
The Mormons moved an entire "society" (in several waves) with hand carts. It's all a matter of motivation.

The later companies had handcarts, but those who were thrown out of Nauvoo, IL by the Illinois militia had wagons. But they were prepared.

Their leaders had told them that they would probably be forced out. They began the year before building one wagon per family. They built them day and night for quite some time. Individual families began putting aside what they could as far as provisions. It was a great deal more difficult then than now - nothing was really packaged and the wagon boxes were small.

The local paper recommended the following for each family:

2 to 3 yoke of oxen, 2 milk cows, other livestock, arms and ammunition, 15 lb of iron, pulleys and ropes, fishing gear, farming and mechanical equipment, cooking equipment and at least 1000 pounds of flour plus assorted other foodstuffs.

In February 1846, at the point of a state bayonet, they lined up their wagons and crossed the frozen Mississippi River with only hours notice. They camped on the other side in Iowa for a brief time, and then headed for the west, spending the next winter on the banks of the Missouri River after growing enough food for the rest of the journey and leaving planted crops for the follow-on companies of pioneers.

Mormons have two levels of preparedness. The first level is the 72-hour kit for each family. The second level is a year's supply of food storage for each member of the family to be used in case of unemployment or disaster. There is actually a third level, that being limit debt to cars and homes as much as possible as well as having six months to a year of salary put aside in case employment goes away.

It makes pretty good sense to prepare now. Just as the SOF Truth says: Competent Special Operations Forces cannot be created after emergencies occur, same goes with providing for the inevitable hard time that will come in everyone's lives.

The Reaper
04-24-2010, 19:57
Putting my kit together and just had a couple of questions...

What type of Personal Information would you think necessary to put in your BOB if any? Would you put in originals or copies? How much money, if any?
Is having a storage container or some sort of lock box with more supplies in it worth it?

I live in semi-dense populated area here at school, if something were to happen I would head southeast towards the parents place/girlfriends family. The area at home is mostly rural.

I would photocopy all of my important docs (license, passport, SS card, credit cards, birth certificate, wedding and divorce papers, insurance policies, etc., if the bag was going to be relatively secure) and put them in a waterproof bag. Then conceal the docs as best you can in your BOB.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

J8127
05-01-2010, 13:31
I need the help of those wiser than myself, as I am unsure on how to handle one possible contingency...

I am still Active Duty (as I am sure many here are), and the most likely outcome I can think of in the event of everything from a natural disaster to a zombie uprising is that I get recalled and set out to react to whatever plague has come. I think packing a bag with everything I would need to walk off into the woods and survive for a while is the easy part, but what do I do in that event is what is puzzling me.

If I get recalled, what I would want to do would be to pack my dog and girlfriend up and bring them to the shop and make camp in the flight office or something, and actually I think this would be worth bringing up with the chain- If the SHTF, is this a viable option? If taking refuge on base is an option, then a BOB would need to contain important documents and cash and such, but maybe a hundred hollow points becomes less important. If the disaster/uprising causes the base to not be there anymore, I have a hard time believing that I would even be around, but if I was, then the survival tools become necessary.

Now I'm basically thinking out loud, but I am hoping somebody will jump in with some ideas.

LarryW
05-01-2010, 16:34
First of all, I'm not wiser than you, just older.

FWIW, here's the issues I confronted when on AD (which BTW was back when your dad was probably just a kid...so take this for what it's worth).

I was concerned that during deployment or extended time away from home there would be a major emergency that would put my wife/kids in jeopardy. I emphasized to the wife that under such a circumstance to get to the nearest military base or Reserve Center. All had dependent ID cards and all vehicles had AD mil stickers. This in itself doesn't guarantee anything, but it was the only thing I could suggest to reassure the wife and myself. This would not necessarily be "THE SOP", but a contingency, an option she could have available to her if she chose.

In '89 I was serving aboard a cruiser that was in port SF for a port visit when the Loma Prieta earthquake hit San Francisco. We had just shifted berths from Fisherman's Wharf area to Treasure Island (about in the middle of SF harbor). Soon as it hit we went to GQ. In the CIC (Combat Info Center) of the ship we had HF comms up with all the USN and Allied ships that were in the operating area. We were relaying messages as we could. All the ships called us because they knew we were there. Each one asked us for a status of various military housing areas, and other neighborhoods where their families and homes were located. We gave them the best info we could. Some we knew were OK and others we didn't.

This is just one old sailors' opinion, and I'll bet this isn't the first time you've heard it. If she's your girlfriend and you care about what happens to her when you're away then marry the woman. Sometimes that Military Dependent's ID Card can open doors for her, especially when she's by herself. No moralizing intended, soldier, but that's what I'd do.

God bless and thanks for your service. Good luck.

ReefBlue
05-01-2010, 17:35
I would photocopy all of my important docs (license, passport, SS card, credit cards, birth certificate, wedding and divorce papers, insurance policies, etc., if the bag was going to be relatively secure) and put them in a waterproof bag. Then conceal the docs as best you can in your BOB.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

For anyone who doesn't know about this product--

They do make a thing called https://www.ironkey.com/products which is an encrypted USB drive. You could make super high quality scans of your docs and put them on there.

This way if you do you lose or damage your originals, you'll at least have the information.

Put that ironkey in a tiny pelican case and you'll have a pretty secure backup of your important docs.

The Reaper
05-01-2010, 19:33
For anyone who doesn't know about this product--

They do make a thing called https://www.ironkey.com/products which is an encrypted USB drive. You could make super high quality scans of your docs and put them on there.

This way if you do you lose or damage your originals, you'll at least have the information.

Put that ironkey in a tiny pelican case and you'll have a pretty secure backup of your important docs.

Only if you still have a computer, the internet, and a printer.

Not a high probability in many of the scenarios.

TR

Axe
05-02-2010, 09:56
Just be sure you haven't destroyed the loft in these items by permanently crushing the fill. Flat for packing is cool, flat for wearing...not so much.

Very good point, Razor. I failed to mention that the items I have packed use Thinsulate, which was chosen for several reasons, including low cost due to length of time on market, efficiency, and 3M's stated ability of basic Thinsulate to withstand compression.

Before I vacuum packed the clothing, I called and spoke with a 3M Product Representative for the Thinsulate material to check if compression was an issue. I was told that basic Thinsulate can be vacuum compressed and should not lose it's insulation "clo value".

I also learned that some of the other 8 types of Thinsulate, such as Thinsulate LiteLoft, will reacquire its clo value after being compressed, but requires 24 hours to do so after being opened.

You definitely want to know the properties of the insulation material you are working with.

jatx
05-02-2010, 14:22
They do make a thing called https://www.ironkey.com/products which is an encrypted USB drive. You could make super high quality scans of your docs and put them on there.

I have a couple of these, which include hi-res scans of all ID's, insurance policies, legal documents, medical records, critical work docs, etc. Some subset of those are in a dry pak pouch, but I keep one Ironkey in the BOB and another in the stock of my carbine (the last thing I'm likely to lose).

Genseric
05-02-2010, 16:33
I keep a large internal-frame backpack full of stuff in my car.
Also a few other things that i'd need if the car broke down in the winter far away from civilization.
I live in northern Sweden, so. Guess what, it can be quite cold.

In my dear bag:

- First Aid kit and some other stuff for paramedical situations
- paper plates
- cutlery
- a few lighters and sealed storm matches
- a few dry emergency rations and chocolate
- couple of cans of sausage
- Gerber Suspension multitool
- Small knife
- Bowie knife
- hand axe
- Sleeping pad
- Muurrikka (Finnish. Basically a frying pan with feet that you can place over a fire)
- Small bottle of charcoal lighter fluid (hey, I don't normally use it, but sometimes you need fire pronto.)
- Small kettle
- Water purification tablets
- 6 m Paracord
Edit, I forgot one thing:
- Cantine, 1 Liter.

In my car:

- Large axe (yeah, you probably get it by now, I love axes)
- Incredibly warm jacket with a hood and fur lining
- 2 Blankets
- A couple of more cans of food for some reason
- Another first aid kit
- Needle & Threads
- Fishing hooks + float + line in a small box

+ All the stuff you need in case of battery dying, a tire going pop or someone needing towing.

What I don't keep in my car:

- Guns, ammo

It's illegal to just keep it in the car, so I have it in my gun safe.
If i'm heading out to the range or such, I carry them in a Versipack Fatboy.
And yes, we're talking about puny little handguns now.
They're my main interest nowadays. :o

Razor
05-03-2010, 10:36
- Small bottle of charcoal lighter fluid (hey, I don't normally use it, but sometimes you need fire pronto.)


Very true. Have you considered using petroleum jelly instead? It has many more uses than liquid fuel, is less likely to spill and contaminate your other items, and can provide a sustained flame vs. the flash of a volatile fluid. Don't forget the road flares in your trunk for emergency signaling produce a pretty good flame, too.

Genseric
05-05-2010, 17:58
Very true. Have you considered using petroleum jelly instead? It has many more uses than liquid fuel, is less likely to spill and contaminate your other items, and can provide a sustained flame vs. the flash of a volatile fluid. Don't forget the road flares in your trunk for emergency signaling produce a pretty good flame, too.

I hadn't heard of that particular substance before, I will look into it.
The charcoal lighter fluid was just a small idea I had, didn't look into it farther.
I think i'll take both, though, since barbecuing is very nice... :rolleyes:
It's not like an extra pound in the car is going to kill me, i'm pretty durable.
:lifter

jatx
05-05-2010, 20:09
Hand sanitizer...pretty good for starting fires, too. :)

Paslode
05-05-2010, 20:21
Hand sanitizer...pretty good for starting fires, too. :)


Alcohol? I must try that.....brb

DJ Urbanovsky
05-06-2010, 12:30
Even better than petroleum jelly: Get some petroleum jelly, put a glob of it into a baggie, toss in some cotton balls, kneed them all together until the balls are impregnated. Fill a film canister or pill bottle with 'em. Takes up very little space, and will start just about any fire. They burn for a surprisingly long time.

swpa19
05-07-2010, 12:58
Then take 4 or 5 Kitchen Matches, wrap them individually with masking tape. (twisted and rolled masking tape also makes a neat candle). Throw in a piece of 80 grit sandpaper. The sandpaper comes in handy when your trying to strike a match when the whole world is soaked after a rain.

Nightfall
06-22-2010, 23:29
My .02

In response to LarryW - You post reminds me of the movie On the Beach with Greggory Peck...

In my *jump/Bug Out Bag*

All crammed into a Northface Field bag - I mean crammed :)

100' paracord
25' float/climb rope
'biners + 8 loop
Kershaw Multiblade Knife (utility, filet, saw/scaler)
Film canister fishing kit (hooks, weights, wrapped in 12lb test)
Sewing kit
Wire cutters
Vicegrips
Multihead driver
pens
paper
GPS
Multitude of AA batteries
Compass
Windup watch
Surefire ED + spare batteries
pen light
Rugar SP101 3" .357 + 3 speed loaders
Pill bottle (Loritab, Flexiril, Cipro, Alieve, Ibuprofin)
98% Deet
Antibio cream
gauze, bandages, ACE, fabric bandaids
chapstick
SPF50
Magnesium/flint (cheap and would set an icecube on fire)
Zippo+small fuel bottle
small pocket knife
220yd spool of 12lb test mono
whetstone, gun+reel oil
scissors
safety pins
cinch straps
duct tape
water purification tabs
hanging off the strap is my Gerber Woodsman's Pal

Keep it with me in the car, along with some other stuff, rain gear, sleeping bag, black plastic bags, 100' climbing rope, ratchet straps, hunter coat, work gloves, stove and fuel - all I need is some lye (so sayeth the last cop to search my car)

I'm sure I left something out, but that's the gist of what I carry everywhere in my car. My friends pick at me about it, but it's the short day trips where people end up dead for being unprepared. They're always happy when I pull out the bag because they need something though...

LarryW
06-23-2010, 07:46
Nightfall, some things you might want to consider is breaking your Bug Out Bag into smaller individual elements (tool kit, first aid, emergency food stuff, etc). This can allow you to reduce spoliage or destruction of some things whilst stored in your car (the Misissippi delta can be rather warm...an ambient temperature of 90 degrees climbs to 140 degrees in 40 minutes in a closed car). Seperation of related items can also allow you to make updates to the configuration to fit the evolving situation.

IMO, the biggest consideration in survival is situational awareness. This can be defined broadly as being aware of the weather headed your way, to being aware of how ready you and your family are to strike out from the home place and live on the trail, to the character revealed in those you love that living on the trail can present. Be patient and calculating in your decisions. Whether you shelter in place or evacuate, the decision may very soon be irreversible. The home place is a known, the trail may not be. Remember you will survive as well as your weakest person.

Nightfall
06-24-2010, 18:34
Nightfall, some things you might want to consider is breaking your Bug Out Bag into smaller individual elements (tool kit, first aid, emergency food stuff, etc). This can allow you to reduce spoliage or destruction of some things whilst stored in your car (the Misissippi delta can be rather warm...an ambient temperature of 90 degrees climbs to 140 degrees in 40 minutes in a closed car). Seperation of related items can also allow you to make updates to the configuration to fit the evolving situation.

It is all seperated into smaller bags (to quote a friend, "I've never seen anyone with so many little black bags. Look ANOTHER ONE!"). That was just my off the top of my head list of what I have in there.



IMO, the biggest consideration in survival is situational awareness. This can be defined broadly as being aware of the weather headed your way, to being aware of how ready you and your family are to strike out from the home place and live on the trail, to the character revealed in those you love that living on the trail can present. Be patient and calculating in your decisions. Whether you shelter in place or evacuate, the decision may very soon be irreversible. The home place is a known, the trail may not be. Remember you will survive as well as your weakest person.


Amen.

Chris O`Crooh
06-30-2010, 16:09
How `bout spare safety/shooting glasses? They can be useful if you want avoid an eye injury (and the ophtalmologist is far away).

Contact lens` storage liquid (i.e. A^con Opt|free ;) ) can be helpful as an ersatz for eye-care antibiotics in case of eye inflammation or infection - positively tested on human (myself ;) )

LarryW
06-30-2010, 23:08
Chris O`Crooh, IMO you are right to plan for at least one extra set of glasses. Contact lenses may require more regular maintenance than your emergency situation might allow, so make sure you have a pair of traditional eyeglasses with your current prescription. Pack a magnifying glass, too. There is nothing more frustration than having to repair your glasses without having them on your face! Any appliances you use regularly to assist you should have a high priority in your planning for a back-up. Good points.

There are several referrals on this site re: first aid kits and I recommend you study them. Your planning should also be sensitive to not having all your eggs in one basket. Consider making your bug out bag modular in ways to allow the loss of one section or pack will not mean the loss of all provisions for that critical contingency.

Ewok
07-15-2010, 12:11
Thank you all for the information in this thread and several of the others (Be Prepared, Survival Scenarios). My husband and I have always had "Go Bags" but now I have so much more information regarding things we need to add to each.
We're back to the planning phase, which I think probably never really ends, especially when the other half of the relationship is AD so we could be moved to a new location at any time.
Our current planning is around the fact that we are now in the Pacific Northwest and both of our families are in the Southeast. We're trying to decide based on different scenarios if we're better off staying in the area or trying to go the 3000 mile distance to get back to them (and the uncertainty of if they will be there when we get there).
I'm very grateful for the different posts regarding how to handle being AD as well as living on post and how to handle disaster scenarios. Worst case planning at the moment is what to do if I'm here and he's not. Where do I go? Do I stay? In total communication/grid breakdown, how would we contact each other? If I go, do we decide on a rendezvous location? Etc.

Again, thank you all for the wonderful information and for stimulating overdue conversations in my household.

Chris O`Crooh
07-17-2010, 09:11
IMHO the basic variant is "I stay at home, you come back". If you had to escape, you both have to mark out several RV points; then, if if you had to abandon that place and move to the next scheduled in yours plan, you would leave a prearranged sign in prearranged place (north side of church tower, or at certain road sign, or whatever you will choose).

Requiem
06-21-2011, 17:53
Gentlemen, thank you for the invaluable advice in this thread and the other survival threads on this board. I've read them all and made notes. My question is about kids in a survival situation and what they should have if they should be separated from an adult.

Specifically, in our case, boys 9 & 11. I'm putting together a "bailout bag" for each, for emergencies on our boat. We will be traveling the Gulf of Alaska by small boat, following the coastline of Kodiak Island. If something happens to myself and my husband, but the kids make it to shore, I want them equipped to survive until help arrives (at most 3 weeks, at which point family will have not heard from us at an appointed time).

I really liked QP Razor's list here (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1540&page=3). Whatever container we use needs to be waterproof and buoyant, but not too large to hinder swimming. I'm thinking a small drybag that can be clipped by carabiner to their PFD.

Items:

Lighter (easier for little fingers?)
Petroleum jelly cotton balls in ziploc or other firestarter
Powerbars, instant soup/oatmeal/pasta
Water treatment tabs
Nalgene bottle
First aid (plus safety pins, duct tape, dental floss)
Space blanket
Metal cup
Bear spray
Bug spray
Whistle (maybe a mirror?)
Personal information
Knife (Leatherman, other folding knife)
Headlamp or flashlight
2-way radio?
Extra batteries for radio & flashlight
550 cord
Small tarp?
Waterproof shell (pants & jacket)

Instruction beforehand on S.T.O.P. (stop, think, observe, plan) and fire, shelter, food & water priorities. Also, the area we will be in has several remote cabins. It's possible they can follow the coastline and find one. However, I'm uncomfortable having them venture away from the coast. There is also the possibility of signaling fishing vessels. Cell phone service is nonexistent. The environment is often chilly, wet, and contains large predators. There are very few trees, but plenty of driftwood for fires. Neither boy has a firearm.

Because of the weight concern, things like sleeping bags & extra clothes, tent and other motherly wishlist items are not on the list, but a drybag floats, no?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If this post is in the wrong section, I apologize. There are several good threads on survival, but this one dealt with packing a bag.

Thank you,

v/r
Susan

The Reaper
06-22-2011, 07:56
Susan:

1. Lots of large predators not afraid to take unarmed humans, as you noted. Children would be particularly vulnerable.

2. An EPIRB or equivalent emergency locator beacon, or even a SPOT might be beneficial and preferred to waiting three weeks under a potential constant threat for a search effort.

3. Drybags are good, as are coolers, if you have room.

4. The gear is useless without the knowledge of how to use it and a plan to follow.

5. Your average child is unable to physically carry their needs for a day in the woods, much less three weeks. Hell, I would have trouble humping three weeks worth of gear and chow, minus the water. If you limit the load to something they can carry, it is not going to be adequate for three weeks of survival in that environment. You need more like a light 72 hour kit, and a locator beacon or a plan for your family to launch a search if you miss two days of contacts on the SPOT.

Best of luck.

TR

plato
06-22-2011, 23:16
Because of the weight concern, things like sleeping bags & extra clothes, tent and other motherly wishlist items are not on the list, but a drybag floats, no?

v/r
Susan

I don't know the exact scanario, but a couple of notes.

If we are talking about being soaked in cold climate, we're talking about getting warm very rapidly. I've taken my boys out roughing it in northern Michigan regularly. Breaking through, even into waist deep water can be a major danger.

In each backpack, in the most available location, we carry a lighter, Sterno, a clear poncho and some dry clothes, even if those clothes are nothing but thick pajamas and socks. (We use lots of ziplocks.)

The idea is if one of us gets wet, and the temp is very low, we put on the poncho, sit down, set the sterno inside, and light it, making a warm tent. Changing to something dry is priority one. There's no time to gather wood and start a fire. Even trying to notify the rest of the group can wait those few minutes. I've had reason to use the poncho solution a couple of times myself and it's great.

Weight may be of no concern for a large extra bag, if you're talking about getting to shore, even if the "extra goods" are numerous.

If there's enough air in a bag/container it is "weightless" until the kids drag it a few feet onshore. Making a few trips to the bag to get their goods while setting up camp, should be in the "can do" category.

And, that SPOT emergency locator is a very inexpensive solution, at about $8 or $10 per month.

Requiem
06-23-2011, 01:23
Reaper, sir, thank you for the advice.

I've spent the afternoon looking at SPOT devices and the possibility of renting a sat phone. Will be following up with that. Your concerns regarding the boys are very much my concerns (predators, food, general know-how in an emergency situation). I can minimize some of the problem, as you suggested, with a SPOT that would greatly cut the amount of time before help arrives. Predators... I'm not so sure about. Bear spray is what we have for the boys. They cannot handle the .44 and I'm not sure even that is enough for a Kodiak brown bear, but it's what we have. Best option is to find a cabin.

Thank you for your input, I'm taking heed and following through with the SPOT, more training for the boys, and rethinking the food.

v/r
Susan

Requiem
06-23-2011, 01:36
Plato, excellent suggestions. I like the ziploc with dry clothes, especially. Will modify the packing list to include a sterno can or two to use with the tarp. The boys will most certainly be wet if they bail out. They will be wearing wetsuits beneath everything for additional insulation because time in the water is another concern.

Weight may be of no concern for a large extra bag, if you're talking about getting to shore, even if the "extra goods" are numerous.

Even if it's weightless in the water, wouldn't a large bag be difficult to swim with? I'm worried about how much they can do in waves - thus the smaller size bag. I suppose a larger bag could be used as a life preserver?

Thank you for the "warming tent" idea. It's in the plan now.

v/r
Susan

wet dog
06-23-2011, 01:43
I've read much of the recent thread, wanted to add, FLARES, lots of flares, simple roadside flares, an even dozen for each kid, in Green or Red.

One: Signal, easy to use, Two: They do scare predators, Three: They assist in starting fires. Finding dry fuel will be a challenge, but even in the wettest of conditions, dry fuel is available, teach them how to locate. Four: It gives them something to do, but teach Patience and Resource Management.

edited to add: look for a .45 Long Colt / 410 GA combo - dillinger, revolver, or short rifle stock. Its not a big gun, but it could act as a last act of defiance because the pepper spray only gives the large Kodiak a "Burp" after chewing on a tasty young man.

Also, practice having the kids change out of wet clothes, get under a poncho and start the sterno. This can be done in the back yard, with you and a garden hose. Getting out of wet clothes is laborsome, getting changed is even more tiresome, doing it under your direction is just plain fun, be sure to get it on video.

Practice.....

PSM
06-23-2011, 01:55
Susan,

Tell us something about your boat. It makes a difference in how and/or why it would sink or you would abandon it. And, also, how easily you could jettison the BOBs if necessary.

As to your list, look at the HeatSheet blankets or bivys instead of the space blanket. You have fire included but need, also, a small grill for a stove. You can't count on them having the ability or resources to make a make-shift one.

Pat

Sten
06-23-2011, 07:59
Plato, excellent suggestions. I like the ziploc with dry clothes, especially. Will modify the packing list to include a sterno can or two to use with the tarp. The boys will most certainly be wet if they bail out. They will be wearing wetsuits beneath everything for additional insulation because time in the water is another concern.



Even if it's weightless in the water, wouldn't a large bag be difficult to swim with? I'm worried about how much they can do in waves - thus the smaller size bag. I suppose a larger bag could be used as a life preserver?

Thank you for the "warming tent" idea. It's in the plan now.

v/r
Susan

Susan-

To be sure that they can swim (or carry it around for days) with any given bag, have them actually swim (or carry it around for a weekend) with the bag.

The Boy scout merit badge book on wilderness survival would be a good training aid for you and your kids.

Cheers,

TJ

Golf1echo
06-23-2011, 08:14
Consider pants and a jacket made with some of the new synthetic Insulations. While many manufactures make them the Patagonia Puff Jacket and Pants are excellent pieces. They still provide aprox. 80% efficiency in warmth when wet, you can walk yourself dry with your body heat ( after imerssion take off all other clothing, don the pants and jacket, even if wet and walk for about 20 min.), they are light weight and very compressible. A hard shell will add additional temp rating.

Requiem
06-23-2011, 14:01
Wet Dog, flares added to the packing list. I love that suggestion. Will also practice with the boys with all the items in their bailout bags. They'd get a kick out of me spraying them with the garden hose. :D

Have a friend with a Taurus (yeah, I know) 410/45 that she shoots with ease. Wish I had the budget for something similar.

Thank you for the added advice. Will follow through with it.

v/r
Susan

Requiem
06-23-2011, 14:36
Tell us something about your boat. It makes a difference in how and/or why it would sink or you would abandon it. And, also, how easily you could jettison the BOBs if necessary.


Pat, just took a look at Heatsheets. They come in bright orange, which is a bonus. Will be getting one for each of us. The small grill is a good suggestion too. Thank you.

Our boat is a 16' Avon, which my husband assures me is nearly impossible to sink. We are traveling 20 miles by water, staying within sight of shore. Will not venture out if seas are greater than 6 feet. Have marine radio, GPS with marine maps, & travel plans will be filed with harbormaster and family.

In the event of an emergency, such as tipping over, we will gather boys and drybagged gear onto the bottom of upturned boat. Then take stock and try to flip it over. Failing that, we'll paddle it to shore as is. I'm still considering where to put BOBs and how to jettison/retrieve them. Suggestions appreciated. Husband is reluctant to tie anything down, fearing entanglement should we tip. I can just picture our BOBs floating away...

Thank you,

v/r
Susan

Requiem
06-23-2011, 14:43
The Boy scout merit badge book on wilderness survival would be a good training aid for you and your kids.

Sten, that's a terrific idea. I have several survival manuals, but one geared for kids would help. (And I will have each boy not only become familiar with his BOB and its contents, but carry it around as well. I'd like them to become attached to these bags as if their lives depended on it. :cool: )

Thank you.

Susan

wet dog
06-23-2011, 14:44
Wet Dog, flares added to the packing list. I love that suggestion. Will also practice with the boys with all the items in their bailout bags. They'd get a kick out of me spraying them with the garden hose. :D

Have a friend with a Taurus (yeah, I know) 410/45 that she shoots with ease. Wish I had the budget for something similar.

Thank you for the added advice. Will follow through with it.

v/r
Susan

Many say, "practice makes perfect". I've always said, "Perfect practice make perfect, you can be practicing it wrong and get perfect at doing it wrong, check fire, correct deficienies when present". As for the weapon, .45LC/410 GA, borrow it from your friend, buy a box of shells, have the boys fire off a few rounds, reload, all while in wet clothes. Don't forget the video.

Also, forward the Grid Coordinates to a few of us in a PM, we'll track you. We know how to do that.

Requiem
06-23-2011, 14:47
Consider pants and a jacket made with some of the new synthetic Insulations.

Golf, now you're talking to the gear junkie in me. :D

*sigh*

Susan

Peregrino
06-23-2011, 18:07
R - SQUAT AND HOLD! When I get back from dinner I'll send you a PM. The advice you've gotten so far WRT BOBs is sound; however, you're making some questionable assumptions about long distance travel and seamanship in an inflatable. P

Requiem
06-23-2011, 20:20
Also, forward the Grid Coordinates to a few of us in a PM, we'll track you. We know how to do that.

Will do. And thank you.


SQUAT AND HOLD!

I'm feeling the burn. :D

v/r
Susan

Peregrino
06-23-2011, 21:03
I'm feeling the burn. :D

v/r
Susan

Susan - I changed my mind about the PM. I've seen too many other threads/posts here that give me pause to think others may benefit too. Start your education with http://uwtraining.webplus.net/FM%203-05.212.pdf Read at least chapters 6 & 7. Especially the parts about properly stowing gear.

Thumb through the rest of it. Pay attention to the parts about sea states and weather conditions. Don't let the fact that it's talking about Zodiacs throw you - an Avon is just a cheap imitation (:p) everything applies equally. I know whereof I speak - this manual was my "magnum opus" before I retired. I either wrote or edited everything in it.

MOO - You need to re-examine your go/no-go criteria - 20 miles in a 16' inflatable in six-foot seas is an ass-whooooping. Four or more hours of it depending on wind and wave directions. And that's just one way. The ocean is one of the few places where it really can be "uphill both ways". Calculating fuel reserves and run times, especially with weather and sea states is more difficult than it seems. Screw up and if you're lucky enough to make it to land, rescue might show up before the local wildlife gets too hungry. And we won't even discuss the issues if you have to beach/launch through surf - something that might not be avoidable if you lose the outboard for any reason.

Stop thinking wet suit for survival/comfort and look at dry suits - specifically tri-laminate versions. DUI makes some decent ones for a reasonable price. Get the sock feet and wear sea boots or similar for walking. You will die of hypothermia faster in a wet suit than you will in a dry suit, dry suits provide significantly greater bouyancy, and when worn properly, they are MUCH warmer and far less restrictive than a wet suit.

Spend the money and get the Seal Line Guide Bags for everyone. http://www.windrosenorth.com/product/display.htp?&id=257&&location=&cat=&apparel= (Not necessarilly from this source.)

The shoulder straps make it easier to secure in the boat, easier to hang onto in the water, and easier to transport on land. Besides - in the situation you're describing - why limit yourself to a BOB when you're just as likely to lose it as you are a ruck? NTM - bigger bag holds more stuff with correspondingly greater reserve bouyancy.

Just a few additional considerations that will hopefully give you a lot of "food for thought". In reality - these pointers are just the tip of the iceberg - literally.

HTH :p

Requiem
06-24-2011, 00:10
Just a few additional considerations that will hopefully give you a lot of "food for thought". In reality - these pointers are just the tip of the iceberg - literally. HTH :p

Peregrino, you have indeed given me food for thought. I will be reading and heeding your advice. Have downloaded the manual and commenced my education. :) Will be researching drysuits and drybags as well.

Thank you, everyone, for the advice and words of wisdom.

v/r
Susan

Doc_Shane
02-11-2012, 11:03
I live in area that is prone to hurricanes and wildfires so I keep a kit handy for getting out or getting through those situations.

My bag is built around my large Alice pack and has fire starting, cooking gear, food, water collection/purification, shelter, etc. in it as well as maintaining my medical gear.

The possibility of getting stuck where I live is high in the cases of wildfires, it is several miles to pavement from my house through the national forest.

h0m3b0dy
04-03-2012, 01:28
This thread have proven very valuable for m in re evaluating my previous BOB configurations (the old devil dog dad got me started years ago) but as my living situation has changed I have a question that I don't believe is covered. i questioned if this is a seperate thread and will take the sure to come lashings if that is the case along with a swift kick in the right direction; what are some basic strategem and supplies if I need to "bug-in"? I have a toddler and her mother to care for and we live a questionable neighborhood, and e and e would be my plan a but if it came down to plan b i would be at a sore disadvantage from lack of experience in that regard.:confused:

h0m3b0dy
04-03-2012, 01:52
One thing for all to consider for E and E is that one's bicycle can be used to transport large amounts of gear, etc over long distances. Throw your ruck over the cross bar and walk along side it. Worked for Ho Chi Minh; will work for you.

Also QP Books very good suggestion and something that I have told friends and fam. There are also 66cc/80cc conversion engines that mount to most standard frame mountain bikes very easily. Bike maintains its human powered mobility with the added benefits of 100 mpg and up to 40 mph depending on load.