View Full Version : 'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'
BMT (RIP)
03-06-2010, 18:49
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703915204575103481069258868.html?m od=WSJ_newsreel_opinion
BMT
Wow...that is some powerful stuff. Thanks for posting this, BMT.
"As the son of a Muslim cleric, he says he had reached the conclusion that terrorism can't be defeated without a new understanding of Islam. Here he echoes other defectors from Islam such as the former Dutch parliamentarian and writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Do you consider your father a fanatic? "He's not a fanatic," says Mr. Yousef. "He's a very moderate, logical person. What matters is not whether my father is a fanatic or not, he's doing the will of a fanatic God. It doesn't matter if he's a terrorist or a traditional Muslim. At the end of the day a traditional Muslim is doing the will of a fanatic, fundamentalist, terrorist God. I know this is harsh to say. Most governments avoid this subject. They don't want to admit this is an ideological war."
Mr. Yousef has been beaten and tortured by Hamas in the past, so he knows full well the risk of coming out with this book. I admire his courage and wonder how long he'll be alive....
Here's a link to earlier posts on the book "Son of Hamas," by Palestinian Mosab Yousef.
I wonder why CNN is just now picking up the story. The book came out in 2008.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=319174&postcount=1123
"Islamic life is like a ladder, with prayer and praising Allah as the bottom rung. The higher rungs represent helping the poor and needy, establishing schools, and supporting charities. The highest rung is jihad.
The ladder is tall. Few look up to see what is at the top. And progress is usually gradual, almost imperceptible - like a barn cat stalking a swallow. The swallow never takes its eyes off the cat. It just stands there, watching the cat pace back and forth, back and forth. But the swallow does not judge depth. It does not see that the cat is getting a little bit closer with every pass until, in the blink of an eye, the cats claws are stained with the swallow's blood.
Traditional Muslims stand at the foot of the ladder, living in guilt for not really practicing Islam. At the top are fundamentalists, the ones you see in the news killing women and children for the glory of the god of the Qur'an. Moderates are somewhere in between.
A moderate Muslim is actually more dangerous than a fundamentalist, however, because he appears harmless, and you can never tell when he has taken that next step toward the top. Most suicide bombers begin as moderates."
-Mosab Hassan Yousef-
Interesting book - just started reading it...
The video in the link below is an interview that may show Yousef’s intentions to infiltrate American churches to create hate towards Israel.. :confused:
> http://shoebat.com/videos/sonOfHamas.php
Is he practicing the art of Taqiyya on the west :munchin
lol How could anybody fail to realize the blatantly obvious fact that we're at war with these shitbirds?
Dohhunter
05-18-2011, 16:17
I hear their God doesn't like black glass.
mark46th
05-18-2011, 16:46
Dusty- Obama doesn't think we are at war with Islam, only the bad people who misinterpret the Q'uran...
Dohhunter
05-19-2011, 06:51
Dusty- Obama doesn't think we are at war with Islam, only the bad people who misinterpret the Q'uran...
And there lies the fundamental mistake of Western Civilization's take on the matter. No pun intended.
http://www.meforum.org/2906/raymond-ibrahim-1-cair-0-by-ko
Hey PRB,
That was an awesome link. It's fantastic that someone like Raymond Ibrahim was able to speak at a college campus despite protests from the unindicted co-conspiritors in the Holy land foundation case (CAIR). I spent my last year at AWG as an instructor and one of the courss I got to be in charge of was GWOT. We had Robert Spencer, Brigette Gabriel, Steve Coughlin and a few other experts come and speak for a week with our students (all senior enlisted and field grade officers) about Islam and specifically about sharia. Almost none of the students knew anything about islam despite numerous deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and were heading back to both places as advisors. Maybe DoD will begin actually teaching our folks the doctrine of our enemies rather than islam is a religion of peace.
Hey PRB,
That was an awesome link. It's fantastic that someone like Raymond Ibrahim was able to speak at a college campus despite protests from the unindicted co-conspiritors in the Holy land foundation case (CAIR). I spent my last year at AWG as an instructor and one of the courss I got to be in charge of was GWOT. We had Robert Spencer, Brigette Gabriel, Steve Coughlin and a few other experts come and speak for a week with our students (all senior enlisted and field grade officers) about Islam and specifically about sharia. Almost none of the students knew anything about islam despite numerous deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and were heading back to both places as advisors. Maybe DoD will begin actually teaching our folks the doctrine of our enemies rather than islam is a religion of peace.
I hope so...I sometimes get carried away attempting to define Islam because I believe, as you do, that 98% of Westerners have never looked into the religion and totally misunderstand it's stated goals.
I traveled to the ME for years before I started delving into their books....it's all in black white and red.
Roger that, since 2004 (my first true introduction to the religion of peace) I have deployed here to Iraq 9 times and have always brought a koran (Rodwell's version, I like that he was not a muslim) and a Reliance of the Traveler (sharia law). They tell you point blank exactly what they plan on doing and how, they are not extremists, they are true practitioners of their religion. I'll stop there, otherwise I'll go on and on about the subject, again, interesting read, thanks.
Roger that, since 2004 (my first true introduction to the religion of peace) I have deployed here to Iraq 9 times and have always brought a koran (Rodwell's version, I like that he was not a muslim) and a Reliance of the Traveler (sharia law). They tell you point blank exactly what they plan on doing and how, they are not extremists, they are true practitioners of their religion. I'll stop there, otherwise I'll go on and on about the subject, again, interesting read, thanks.
I started in the ME about '84 or so and last trip '05-07. Do me/us a favor and present your findings to your team mates unit as best you can.
Team Sergeant
05-21-2011, 15:50
'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'
Or
"Sent to Meet Him"
:munchin
steve912
05-24-2011, 03:38
'They Need to Be Liberated From Their God'
Or
"Sent to Meet Him"
Amen.
There also needs to be borders made of a giant pig trough, kept nice and wet.. Then every few months take a B747 Supertanker load it with the pig waste, and call in some air support as needed. Oh.. And make all explosives with bacon in them.. But, then again, I am just a politically incorrect jerk.. :rolleyes:
Hacksaw, nice avatar Sir!
Forget the twelfth imam, Holger Danske has been roused, and is in da house :D
steve912
05-27-2011, 01:10
See what worries me is they believe the twelth imam will crawl out of a well... Maybe he is related to the girl from the movie "The Ring" :rolleyes:
See what worries me is they believe the twelth imam will crawl out of a well... Maybe he is related to the girl from the movie "The Ring" :rolleyes:
It is only the Shia that believe that...then again, they are building a Nuke and when that Imam shows up that's the switch for Armaggedon
It is only the Shia that believe that...
Although it may not be a predominant Sunni belief, I thought Juhayman ibn Muhammad ibn Sayf al-Otaibi was Sunni ? :confused:
http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/siegeofmecca/photoGallery.php
Edited to add...
Found this pretty interesting > http://www.mahdiwatch.org/
This too, and at the end when Spencer showed up :D
(01:00 - 01:25) & (03:00 - 03:55)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL-pF9cEgX4
Jamaat ul-Fuqra are Sunni too..., I think...:confused:
Although it may not be a predominant Sunni belief, I thought Juhayman ibn Muhammad ibn Sayf al-Otaibi was Sunni ? :confused:
http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/siegeofmecca/photoGallery.php
Edited to add...
Found this pretty interesting > http://www.mahdiwatch.org/
This too, and at the end when Spencer showed up :D
(01:00 - 01:25) & (03:00 - 03:55)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL-pF9cEgX4
Jamaat ul-Fuqra are Sunni too..., I think...:confused:
Predominately Shia. Most Sunni don't believe in the Shia tradition of the hidden Imams return simply because it is Shia.
As you know many trad Sunni's don't even consider Shia's to be muslim.
steve912
05-27-2011, 23:59
PRB,
I kind of took light of things my appologies. If I am correct, because it has been a while since I have studied the subject,and definately have been wrong before
Shia specifically twelvers - such as Ahmadinejad, do make me nervous... Because they believe bringing on armagedon will cause the madi to come out of the well, and destroy little and big satan ie - the jews and americans.. But if I understand correctly that is a minority in iran as in the past ayatollah khomeini felt they were a little to nutty even for his taste and killed a bunch them off..ayatollah khomeini in a way reminds me of a Sadam, but way more structured as he appears to be a man of strict muslim faith, and surrounds himself like minded imams (quite the twisted bunch) and also has some of his people believing that he actually speaks with Allah, and Allah speaks back with him..
Which I am sure he thinks he did speak with Allah, if he smoked some of the Hashish that is located in that neck of the woods. But either way the regime definately should not have any nukes, cause it will only be a matter of time before it is passed onto Hezbollah... Which is a scarey thought in itself.. Especially the way things are currently happening around Israel.. All of the Israelies have my prayers.
Predominately Shia. Most Sunni don't believe in the Shia tradition of the hidden Imams return simply because it is Shia.
As you know many trad Sunni's don't even consider Shia's to be muslim.
Yes Sir.., I should have clarified above that they both believe in the Mahdi, yet the Mahdi of Sunni Islam has nothing to do with the Shia tradition of the hidden dude from the well :D
FWIW..., my understanding is that Sunni believe the Mahdi has yet to arrive, whereas the twelvers of Shi`ism believe the Mahdi has already been here, and is hiding, waiting..., and fixing to crawl back out of the well when the time is right..., sort of like a twisted version of ground hog day, dependant upon turmoil :D
craigepo
05-28-2011, 13:50
PRB,
Because they believe bringing on armagedon will cause the madi to come out of the well, and destroy little and big satan ie - the jews and americans..
Question: Do the muslims really believe in an "armageddon"? My reason for asking---Armageddon is a term used in the New Testament, specifically the book of Revelation. If my poor theological base is correct, Armageddon is derived from the Jewish "Har Megiddo", literally "Megiddo Hill", an actual place in Israel with obvious tactical/strategic import(from Google maps).
So, is the term "Armageddon" used in the koran, or is this just an english/western shorthand for something islamically different entirely?
steve912
05-28-2011, 20:21
Craigpro,
My understanding is Muslims believe in armageddon, but it has a similar/different meaning. The similarities are that there will be blood drawn world wide, global conflict ect. The difference is Christians and Jews do not want armageddon to take place due to the ammount of carnage that will take place and lives lost, but in the end Jesus will purify the world of all evil and there will be peace on earth. In the Koran if I have read up on this correctly, the muslims want to start armageddon (particularly twelvers) because the madi will come out, there will be world wide blood shed, and they believe all Jews will be wiped off the face of the earth with no place to hide.. Their term for satan is not the same as the Christian understanding though. Satan for christians is one fallen angel that rules all hell and is the king of evil, where the muslims believe satan can be an entire group of people or a country. The way I understand it there is little satan (Jews) and big satan (americans) but I believe this is just for the fundamentalists in those countries which sadly to say there is quite alot of them.. I hope this helps out a little bit.
Question: Do the muslims really believe in an "armageddon"? My reason for asking---Armageddon is a term used in the New Testament, specifically the book of Revelation. If my poor theological base is correct, Armageddon is derived from the Jewish "Har Megiddo", literally "Megiddo Hill", an actual place in Israel with obvious tactical/strategic import(from Google maps).
So, is the term "Armageddon" used in the koran, or is this just an english/western shorthand for something islamically different entirely?
Yes it is. Muhammed was exposed to both Christianity and Judaism and he adopted many of their concepts as he devised the Koran. The Christian offshoot (not real Christianity but a schism) didn't practice according to the precepts of Christ but Muhammed was unaware of this and echoed some of their beliefs thinking it was true Christianity....he gathered a bit here/there etc as he developed the religion. It was a way to tie into practiced beliefs and to accrue 'believability' as he preached. His uncle, the suposed transcriber of the written Quran, was supposedly a Christian of sorts.
FWIW, Muhammad confused Mary, the mother of Jesus with Mary, the sister of Aaron and Moses, and he adopted the Syriac legend of the seven sleepers of Ephesus, and incorporated it into the Qur'an, as "The People of the Cave" (Sura 18).
He also applied the term "Samaritan" to the time of Moses... lol
Big "Mo" borrowed quite a bit from other religions and legends...
:munchin
Almualla
05-29-2011, 04:48
ahhhh...."There you go, again." Ronald Reagan........:boohoo
ahhhh...."There you go, again." Ronald Reagan........:boohoo
Yemeni?
ahhhh...."There you go, again." Ronald Reagan........
I'm curious how an Israelite and an Egyptian..., could produce a Yemenite..., especially when certain genetic lines died out... :confused:
"We are told that [Abraham] was born in Chaldea, and that he was the son of a poor potter who earned his living by making little clay idols. It is scarcely credible that the son of this potter went to Mecca, 300 leagues away in the tropics, by way of impassable deserts. If he was a conqueror he no doubt aimed at the fine country of Assyria; and if he was only a poor man, as he is depicted, he founded no kingdoms in foreign parts." — Voltaire
"For the historian, the Arabs are no more the descendents of Ishmael, son of Abraham, than the French are of Francus, son of Hector." — Maxime Rodinson
"It is virtually certain that Abraham never reached Mecca." — Montgomery Watt
"The essential point ... is that, where objective fact has been established by sound historical methods, it must be accepted." — Montgomery Watt
Almualla
05-29-2011, 22:30
Yemeni?
Negative, just a proud U.S. Soldier .
Negative, just a proud U.S. Soldier .
Wondered, Al Mualla is an area in Yemen...Muslim soldier?
Almualla
05-31-2011, 01:00
Wondered, Al Mualla is an area in Yemen...Muslim soldier?
Right on the area, a district in A'dan,Yemen, and a Cemetery in Mecca ( Jannat Al mualla-The paradise of Al mualla) before it was destroyed by King AL S'oud and his Wahhabism gang .
And Yes on the Muslim.
Entire post.It is interesting that you would quote Montgomery Watt as some of the themes of his scholarship are at variance with many of your interpretations of history and Islamic theology.