Remington Express vs. Remington 870P

[Longstreet]

I have been in the market for my first firearm. After much thought, I have decided to buy a shotgun due to its versatility. With the shotgun, I can hunt and join the local skeet/trap club while only owning one gun. I have read on the internet and visited a few shops in the area and am positive that a Remington 870 is the gun for me. And to be more specific, the Remington 870 Express Custom would be my first choice as it comes with both a 26” smoothbore barrel and a 20” rifled barrel - all for a fantastic price of $516.00 CDN. I was planning on making my purchase next Friday until today . . .

While visiting the local tactical shop where I bought some dummy rounds, I was told to look into getting a Remington 870P. Once home I looked up this firearm and found that it is Remington’s law enforcement model. When compared, the 870P is a more rugged version of the 870 Express and greater care has been taken to construct it to ensure its reliability and provide it a longer life. The shop where I was planning on buying my Express offers the 870P (870 Police with Knoxx stock and Rifle Sights) for $950CDN.

I put together a list of pros and cons to compare the two shotguns for my own personal use:

Express
Pros
- Less expensive ($520 CDN + rumour of a $30.00 rebate)
- Comes with 20” rifled barrel and 26” smoothbore barrel

Cons
- It is not parkerized so I would prefer to get this done which costs $195.00 CDN. There is also parkerizing with Teflon or KG Gun-Kote which costs an extra $50.00. Anybody have any experience with this?
- Both barrels are not really ideal for turkey hunting as from what I understand, 20” smoothbore is the preferred length
- I would change the stock of the gun as a personal preference ($100-$200 CDN)

870P
Pros
- Comes with an 18.75” barrel which would be better for turkey hunting, but is still no the 'ideal' size
- It is more rugged with better construction
- It comes parkerized
- The Knoxx stock
- It looks cool (I have to admit, it looks really cool although this would not be a huge selling feature for me as I do not want to look like some tactical wannabe)

Cons
- It is initially more expensive
- I would need a longer barrel for skeet/trap shooting
- I would need a rifled barrel to hunt or shoot indoors
- I have no idea how I will be perceived when I venture out to the local skeet/trap club and pull out a tactical shotgun

Personally I am leaning more towards the 870P primarily because of its reliability and better construction, but I am unsure if I am paying for something that really does not matter for what I am using it for. So if anyone could offer any comments or suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. Thank-you.

jaYson

[Ambush Master]

I have several 870s, a few of which are 870 Express models and all of those are Parkerized. The 870 is one of the most reliable actions that I've ever dealt with. I've shot competitive Skeet with one and fed it reloads that resembled mushrooms and it never failed to feed or function. At SHOT, I saw that Timney has a Trigger Group out that greatly improves that area, but other than say putting a Vang Comp Barrel on one, there isn't much that you'd need to do to it!!

Take care.
Martin

[craigepo]

Longstreet
A couple of things I noted:
1. If you are going to be shooting skeet/trap or moving targets, rifle sights aren't going to work very well. You slap, not squeeze, a shotgun trigger.
2. RE: turkey hunting. Barrel length is irrelevant. Choke is important. If you can afford it, get a gun with screw-in chokes.
3. Barrel length: long barrels are fine if you are standing around a trap range. They can help your swing a little. However, if you are hunting or carrying the gun for any distance, a longer barrel means you are carrying more weight. Shorter means lighter, and easier to aim around a tree.
4. I understand needing a rifled barrel for slugs. But why would you need a rifled barrel to shoot inside? Inside what? What is your intended target?
5. If you are in law enforcement, buy a tactical gun. If you are going to use the gun recreationally, but want to have it handy to shoot an intruder, buy a reliable shotgun---take the money you save, buy ammo, and become proficient with whatever gun you buy.
6. If you are considering spending $950 for a tricked-out 870, don't buy anything until you have test-fired a benelli autoloader. Trust me, I own both.

[The Reaper]

While visiting the local tactical shop where I bought some dummy rounds, I was told to look into getting a Remington 870P. Once home I looked up this firearm and found that it is Remington’s law enforcement model. When compared, the 870P is a more rugged version of the 870 Express and greater care has been taken to construct it to ensure its reliability and provide it a longer life. The shop where I was planning on buying my Express offers the 870P (870 Police with Knoxx stock and Rifle Sights) for $950CDN.

jaYson

Yeah, that is what I would tell you, too, if I wanted to extract an extra $400 from you.

Last I heard, they are the same guns, made from the same parts on the same line. Only the finish is really different.

Get the Express, you will not be disappointed, unless you think the Parkerizing and giving up a spare barrel are worth $400.

TR

[Papa Zero Three]

I own an 870P tactical straight from Remington with the surefire fore end,synthetic stock,etc. I also own several 870's that I've customized myself. The 870 is a very easy gun to work on IMO.

First off, the difference between the 870P and any 870 mechanically speaking is very slight. The 870P is assembled on a different line as they pay more attention to the chamber and carrier group and polish them up for a smoother action, something that you can do yourself or what happens over time using the gun. The biggest difference is the heavier sear spring and the heavier dog carrier spring. Also, if I remember correctly, you also won't get the funky plastic "J" lock safety button. Sights are dependent on how the gun was ordered (rifle vs Bead); the 870P has an 18" barrel. The heavier springs are used due to the heavier use they would see in a police department vs an average shotgun shooter. You also have an extended magazine on the P models if it's a Tactical model.

Cosmetically, the 870P typically comes with the parkerized finish. Some of the older ones came with a blued finish, these are usually the ones with the walnut stock and fore end. You won't see these much unless it's an old one or a department special ordered them. Most of the newer ones come with synthetic stock and fore ends.

Unless you plan on putting a lot of rounds through your gun, the P might be over kill. If you want your 870 to look like an 870P tactical, you can do most of it yourself for a lot cheaper, to include buying the heavier springs and building it yourself. One thing I will caution against is if this is what you want to do, the Express model requires you do some filing down of a small "tit" in the magazine tube if you plan on putting a magazine extension on. The Express fore grip is also shaped slightly different and this can interfere with your ability to add a side saddle shell holder. The Express fore grip when cycled back, will hit a side saddle shell holder as it is longer so it would have to be changed out.


What I would suggest is that you get a regular 870 ( magnum or even a 870 tactical) , make what ever modifications you want and then invest in different barrel lengths for your intended use. You can get different barrels for fairly cheap and switch them out as needed, such as an 18" for HD or walking in the bush, and anything longer for skeet/Ducks/turkey or a rifled one for deer. In the end you'll probably spend less than the 870P and have a more versatile gun for less money.

[alright4u]

Yeah, that is what I would tell you, too, if I wanted to extract an extra $400 from you.

Last I heard, they are the same guns, made from the same parts on the same line. Only the finish is really different.

Get the Express, you will not be disappointed, unless you think the Parkerizing and giving up a spare barrel are worth $400.

TR

I never had a problem with a regular barrel 870 wingmaster with modified coke for pheasants.

[Longstreet]

Thanks for the advice everyone. To clarify a few points:

4. I understand needing a rifled barrel for slugs. But why would you need a rifled barrel to shoot inside? Inside what? What is your intended target?

Thank-you for pointing this out as I should have clarified it before posting. I do not have the luxury of shooting at outside ranges all season as it gets too cold and to the best of my understanding, they close for the winter. I just found out about an indoor range, but it only allows one to fire shotguns with slugs. So to practice over the winter, I would be practicing from an indoor range.

Yeah, that is what I would tell you, too, if I wanted to extract an extra $400 from you.
Last I heard, they are the same guns, made from the same parts on the same line. Only the finish is really different.

That is exactly what I would have been thinking, but the tactical shop I was at does not sell any firearms. The shop 'gun expert' told me about the 870P and said it is recommended when playing 3-Gun - something I would be interested looking into in a few years. I did look up the differences as stated and found this: http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/articles/870ExpvsPol6-30-05.pdf
He went on and said something about the 870P also having some type of certification that is needed when used at a 'tactical' type range. Of course most of this does not concern me at the present time as the primary use for this gun is to hunt turkeys and shoot skeet/trap. What did interest me is that the 870P appears to be constructed with higher standards; however from what everyone has said, these extra standards are not necessary for my needs so I am now leaning back towards the Express.

I still think it would be a good idea to have the Express parkerized and plan to do so. I am fortunate enough to have a gunsmith who is the Canadian distributer of Vang Comp not far from my house and have spoken with him - hell of a nice guy. My next question is, should I have it parkerized or for an extra $50.00 parkerized with Teflon or KG Gun-Kote? Comments?

jaYson

[Papa Zero Three]

The tactical shop I was at does not sell any firearms. The shop 'gun expert' told me about the 870P and said it is recommended when playing 3-Gun - something I would be interested looking into in a few years. I did look up the differences as stated and found this: http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/articles/870ExpvsPol6-30-05.pdf
He went on and said something about the 870P also having some type of certification that is needed when used at a 'tactical' type range. Of course most of this does not concern me at the present time as the primary use for this gun is to hunt turkeys and shoot skeet/trap.

Gun shop BS expert is more like it. The 870P is not need to do 3-gun, most guys do their own modifications to meet 3 gun requirements right off of the base 870. Look around at a few 3 gun websites/comps and you can get an idea of what kind of shotgun set ups guys are running. I am unaware of any certification needed to use a shotgun at a tactical course. Most places that offer tactical shotgun courses have recommendations/suggestions of what to bring like number of rounds, equipment, etc. Of course Canada might have this certification requirement but I am leaning towards the unlikely.



I still think it would be a good idea to have the Express parkerized and plan to do so. I am fortunate enough to have a gunsmith who is the Canadian distributer of Vang Comp not far from my house and have spoken with him - hell of a nice guy. My next question is, should I have it parkerized or for an extra $50.00 parkerized with Teflon or KG Gun-Kote? Comments?

jaYson


Whats wrong with the finish the weapon has on it? If you want to parkerize it because you like the look, then go for it. Dura coat or Gun kote is not that hard to apply and if you have an air compressor you can buy a small starter kit for a few bucks and do your coating yourself, it's really not that hard. Brownells sells Gun-kote and you can order Duracoat direct from duracoat if no one carries it in your neck of the woods.

[6.8SPC_DUMP]

Whats wrong with the finish the weapon has on it? If you want to parkerize it because you like the look, then go for it. Dura coat or Gun kote is not that hard to apply and if you have an air compressor you can buy a small starter kit for a few bucks and do your coating yourself, it's really not that hard. Brownells sells Gun-kote and you can order Duracoat direct from duracoat if no one carries it in your neck of the woods.

I bought a used Vang Comp 870P that needed to be refinished as seen below (sorry no before and after pics). I chose Brownells' oven cure Teflon/Moly spray can finish (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1145/Product/TEFLON_MOLY_OVEN_CURE__GUN_FINISH) because of it's great reputation. Also economical: one can, sanded with 400 grit aluminum oxide paper, de-greased and baked with the high temp masking tape they sell.

I have been duped by a gun shop BS expert before... But am happy with the Vang. Remington's flexitab anti-jam system is great. Unofficial flexitab demo clip Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHHOYwco9xE).

[swpa19]

Lot of good information here. Basically it comes down to the fact that this is going to be your first weapon. Im in agreement with most here. Basic is best, and your primary purpose of your shotgun should determine what types of accessories you want to incorporate with your weapon. Unless you plan to spend a lot of time at Vandalia Ohio, I cant see the need for a long barrel, as was previousely stated here. Ive shot many Grouse, Pheasant and Turkey with the ole Rem 870 Wingmaster. It was also my first Trap Gun. The 870 along with the Mossberg 500 provides excellent basic platforms for anything you might want to incorporate. A lot of the accessories can be found on the web at various online auction sites. These are just my humble opinions. Then again, I started my hunting experiences with a Winchester Model 1897.

[HOLLiS]

I have several 870s, a few of which are 870 Express models and all of those are Parkerized. The 870 is one of the most reliable actions that I've ever dealt with. I've shot competitive Skeet with one and fed it reloads that resembled mushrooms and it never failed to feed or function. At SHOT, I saw that Timney has a Trigger Group out that greatly improves that area, but other than say putting a Vang Comp Barrel on one, there isn't much that you'd need to do to it!!

Take care.
Martin

2X, I have several 870's. It also has more "accessories" for it than probably another shotgun.

[Ken Brock]

the only difference that I know of (in reference to the internals) between the Express and the Police magnum is the Police magnum uses more steel in the internal parts

at least that's what Hans Vang told me when I was talking to him about building a shotgun

I hate the Knoxx stock, but that's just me

I would go with the Express if I were you. I've had several of them

you can always buy a barrel with dedicated rifle sights if you wish