View Full Version : War is Hell....
Or, at least they should act like it....
to think,, we were happy to occasionally get a can of warm beer..
My condolences to the poor bastards that have to survive in this utterly inhuman & inhospitable environment...
:D:D:D:D
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/02/military_AAFES_afghanistan_mcchrustal_020510w/
AAFES concessions to close in Afghanistan, By Karen Jowers - Staff writer. Posted : Friday Feb 5, 2010 13:27:51 EST
Most Army and Air Force Exchange Service concessions serving U.S. troops in Afghanistan will be closed within 90 days under an order issued Feb. 5 by Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in that war zone.
McChrystal’s “fragmentary order,” known as a FRAGO, follows a review of morale, welfare and recreation activities in Afghanistan during which base and unit commanders completed a 60-day assessment and submitted impact statements and recommendations for closure or relocation of AAFES facilities.
“MWR programs across the theater should be limited in scope and tailored for an expeditionary force,” McChrystal said in his order. “MWR should never be the distracter that changes the focus of the mission.”
More than 50 AAFES concessions would close under the order, including popular fast-food outlets like Burger King, Popeyes and Taco Bell, as well as jewelry stores, souvenir stores and new car sales outlets
At least nine main exchange service stores that operate under the auspices of specific deployed U.S. units will remain open. The fate of 14 other main facilities that are not categorized as “unit stores” is unclear.
“We’ve received the order and will follow accordingly. We’re there to do what the command wants us to do,” said AAFES spokesman Judd Anstey.
According to McChrystal’s order, priority command support will be limited to fitness centers, MWR Internet services, the Stars and Stripes newspaper, unit-operated AAFES stores, barber and beauty shops, recreation equipment (books, movies, board games and outdoor recreation gear), USO packages (USO2Go and USO in a Box), and education services, all of which will continue.
Other facilities exempt from the closure order include Green Bean Café; AAFES-sponsored vendors run by Afghan nationals; temporary bazaars (open at least one day a week); AT&T Call Centers; AAFES Internet services, cell phone activation services; and tailor concessions that do limited alterations.
The 90-day timetable outlined by McChrystal will include 30 days for the command to notify the facilities to be closed, and 60 days for the actual closure process.
In addition to its nine unit-run and 14 other main exchange facilities in Afghanistan, AAFES currently operates 27 food outlets, 51 short-term concessions and 77 longer-term concession services in that country, Anstey said.
I have a mixed view on this.
To small units that can get access to something like a Burger King every now and again it's a nice touch.
To shift work types living on big facilities it can lead to an "office" mentality.
I like to keep my eye on the little guy.
Dozer523
02-06-2010, 06:39
What? did the General stumbled upon people standing in a check out line at Bagram or Phoenix? Did he notice they were not drawing down on a bad guy while splurging on a pack of bazooka bubble gum and a box of cheez-its (my vices of choice at Eggers)? Maybe he saw someone buying a little radio/CD player for their plywood conex bedroom (should be reading manuals).
This is the same crap as an earlier post about how he rolled into the Green Bean at Eggers and played Christ in the temple.
First off. These PX operations are austere! I mean as in it's a big deal when the Vienna Sausages show up. . . that practically goes out over the Big Voice.
Second, the franchises are owned by local Afghans and staffed by local Afghans. (oh those include Burger King, Popeyes and Taco Bell) but those are exempt. Takin it away or not? Neew cars sales? give me a break! we're not taking test drives it's a freakin pamphlet and a nice discount.
Third, it is a real treat to take a break and visit the Orange Julius at Phoenix.
Lastly, it sounds like "I'm the Lord of ALL I survey And DON'T YOU FORGET IT."
KMA
I have to agree with the good General's assessment. If there are less reasons to want to be on a fire base, then everyone, to include the command "team" will want to get the job done and get home. Kinda reminds me of the old cartoon with the Grunt, Ranger, SF Guy and the AF guy "this sucks!". Just my .02$
Might be hard to put the genie back in the bottle...and it will provide an opportunity for KBR and other parasitic organizations to sell stuff to troops at inflated prices, if my experience in Somalia means anything...
When I first heard this, I was a bit perplexed, but now that I have had some time to think about it, I think it is a good thing.
Take Al Udeid AB for instance. May be the "nicest" location in the AOR, but you couldn't pay me enough to voluntarily go there. I was there in June, and the moral on that base is the worst I have ever seen. I believe the fact that it has become "such a nice place" is partly to blame. YOu have CMSgts standing outside the chow hall (excuse me DFAC) checking to see if you are wearing your disco belt (reflective belt). No disco belt, no matter the time of day, no food. Lord how the hell did I ever survive over there in the early stages of things without my disco belt. Oh, and if you are carrying a backpack, a disco has to be afixed to that as well.
No more driving by yourself, because you have to have a spotter in order to back out of a parking space.
No more flip flops to walk back and forth to the restroom.
If you aren't in ABU/DCU you must be in PT gear, to include when you go to the restroom in the middle of the night.
The Wing/CC has squadron commanders and CMSgts walking around base looking for uniform infractions.
The 3-star CENTAF/CC rides around in an armored vehicle with 2 OSI escort vehicles, with lights flashing, while on base.
This is what happens when bereaucrats are in charge of a war.
craigepo
02-08-2010, 10:57
afchic
The term that I use for the situation you describe is that a mission has become "Kosovoed". This situation, pursuant to my personal definition, generally occurs when the numbers of support personnel become greater than the number of combat troops during a deployment. The situation gets worse when the number of sergeants major and field-grade officers exceed a minimal level. Also exacerbating the problem is when the higher-ups that deploy lose their mission focus.
I came up with this term while watching the goings-on at Camp Bondsteel---which at that point had become an absolute REMF Clusterf@#$. Soldiers were being given Article 15s for uniform infractions while performing actual missions. I then watched a freaking street sweeper drive up a street on post, sweeping the street. Behind the mechanical street sweeper were two Albanians with brooms, sweeping the street that had just been swept. I learned that the contracting company got paid more that way.
"KBRed" or "Halliburtoned" might be a more applicable name for some instances
As much as AT&T charges our servicemen & women they should of been shut down a long time ago but i see they are excempt... Someone's pockets are getting filled.
Dozer523
02-08-2010, 12:17
As much as AT&T charges our servicemen & women they should of been shut down a long time ago but i see they are excempt... Someone's pockets are getting filled. We called Stateside bases close to home on the DSL (I think, at least from the phone bank) then got an "outside line" to connect with the credit card number. My HOR was near a AFB so my cards lastedd a long time. The only downside was between my picking up the phone in AStan and MRFL picking up, I had to dial in 27 digits.
My best "McChrystallism" was when he was standing in the middle of the JOC in PT gear - yelling as to how he didn't want to see any more people in the JOC in PT gear. Classic.
greenberetTFS
02-08-2010, 12:53
This is the same crap as an earlier post about how he rolled into the Green Bean at Eggers and played Christ in the temple.
Great post Dozer,this made me LMAO...........:D;):D
Big Teddy :munchin
afchic
The term that I use for the situation you describe is that a mission has become "Kosovoed". This situation, pursuant to my personal definition, generally occurs when the numbers of support personnel become greater than the number of combat troops during a deployment. The situation gets worse when the number of sergeants major and field-grade officers exceed a minimal level. Also exacerbating the problem is when the higher-ups that deploy lose their mission focus.
I came up with this term while watching the goings-on at Camp Bondsteel---which at that point had become an absolute REMF Clusterf@#$. Soldiers were being given Article 15s for uniform infractions while performing actual missions. I then watched a freaking street sweeper drive up a street on post, sweeping the street. Behind the mechanical street sweeper were two Albanians with brooms, sweeping the street that had just been swept. I learned that the contracting company got paid more that way.
"KBRed" or "Halliburtoned" might be a more applicable name for some instances
What really really gets me is the number of folks over there. My husband had a troop deployed to the CAOC last year working in the AMD in the section I used to run, so I know how the place should be manned!!!! So he is there on a 6 month deployment, working 8 hour shifts, 5 days a week. His job was to coordinate with the folks in TACC, whom when he is home, sits across the cubicle from him!!!
This guy is in a career field that is now at a 1:1 dwell (there are only 5 or six in the AF that are at that stage) so instead of using him where he could actually do some good, he is sitting at a desk, answering the phone 2-3 times a night, on an 8 hour shift, M-F. Great use of a high demand/low density asset.
Every time I bring this up with AF leadership I am told the same thing "Yes we know there are requirements out there that should be scrubbed, but no one wants to admit they can do more with less" Bull shit I say. Just about every Lt Col I know that either is a deployed commander, or is a commander here and has troops deployed says the same thing, "Scrub the requirements". It is the O-6 and above that doesn't want to have to give up manpower.
I asked a 3-star the other day "Gen Schwartz says the AF is all in.... When is the rest of the AF, besides my career field and a couple of others, going to be all in????" I didn't get an answer, Gee imagine that.....
Defender968
02-08-2010, 20:32
What really really gets me is the number of folks over there. My husband had a troop deployed to the CAOC last year working in the AMD in the section I used to run, so I know how the place should be manned!!!! So he is there on a 6 month deployment, working 8 hour shifts, 5 days a week. His job was to coordinate with the folks in TACC, whom when he is home, sits across the cubicle from him!!!
This guy is in a career field that is now at a 1:1 dwell (there are only 5 or six in the AF that are at that stage) so instead of using him where he could actually do some good, he is sitting at a desk, answering the phone 2-3 times a night, on an 8 hour shift, M-F. Great use of a high demand/low density asset.
Every time I bring this up with AF leadership I am told the same thing "Yes we know there are requirements out there that should be scrubbed, but no one wants to admit they can do more with less" Bull shit I say. Just about every Lt Col I know that either is a deployed commander, or is a commander here and has troops deployed says the same thing, "Scrub the requirements". It is the O-6 and above that doesn't want to have to give up manpower.
I asked a 3-star the other day "Gen Schwartz says the AF is all in.... When is the rest of the AF, besides my career field and a couple of others, going to be all in????" I didn't get an answer, Gee imagine that.....
Good luck on the continued battle with AF brass Afchic (though I think you're beating your head against a brick wall), if you had wings on your chest and a couple of stars they might even listen to the voice of reason.
I spent 6 months at AUAB, what a ridiculous place, but what a cherry target, when I brought up the security deficiencies they told me to shut up and color while they built another pool....:eek: One day that base is going to get hit and it will devastate the USAF’s capabilities in theater.
Afchic all kidding aside I really do wish you the best in trying to bring some common sense to that broken organization, I ran out of patience with them.
Good luck on the continued battle with AF brass Afchic (though I think you're beating your head against a brick wall), if you had wings on your chest and a couple of stars they might even listen to the voice of reason.
I spent 6 months at AUAB, what a ridiculous place, but what a cherry target, when I brought up the security deficiencies they told me to shut up and color while they built another pool....:eek: One day that base is going to get hit and it will devastate the USAF’s capabilities in theater.
Afchic all kidding aside I really do wish you the best in trying to bring some common sense to that broken organization, I ran out of patience with them.
There are good folks out there that acknowledge the system is broken, but the problem as I see it is perception. About 75% of the taskings for my career field right now are from the Army, and most of them are bullshit. You don't need and AF loggie to do the job the Army is asking of logisticians, But no one in the AF leadership wants to go back to the army and tell them no, not when you have Army guys pulling their 4th, 5th, maybe 6th deployment, no matter that the requirement itself doesn't/shouldn't be filled in the first place, no matter the service. It is a bogus requirement, and the only reason it keeps getting tasked is because either the Army doesn't want to acknowledge the tasking is bogus, or the AF won't raise the BS flag.
Case in point, my tasking to embed with the Army for a year to mentor a Senior Afghan General about the US Army supply system. Doesn't matter that I have never held a supply job in my career, let alone an army one. I am an AF logistician, therefor I know everything concerning logistics of any form fit or function. NOT!!!
And oh by the way, seeing as how we don't have enough to meet the growing demand, they are looking at kicking another 54 of us out of the service this year to meet force shaping demands.
Dozer523
02-08-2010, 22:11
Somewhere along the way we decided to fight this war from inside FOBs. And venturing out only during the daytime. I think if it could be taken to the perfect extreme we'd all go to the little room where they control the UAV and log on for our eight hour shift -- less the hour lunch and the two fifteen minute coffee breaks. We don't take the ground from the enemy. And we don't stay out after dark.
It is so ridiculous that the COP that was nearly overrun was described in the media as having been "ambushed". You don't ambush fixed locations! You conduct hasty or deliberate attacks (Deliberate, in that case). But it was so beyond the realm of possibilities it had to be explained away as an ambush -- something unexpected that you sort of stumble into because the enemy has planned it for where you would least expect it. Jeese it was like the front door.
I digress. . . . where was I? so since we don't leave the FOBs and it's shift work, why not make it nice and comfy? At least tell the General you don't have to practice being miserable in the FOB. And when your out and it's miserable, I really don't feel better because "somewhere, back inside the wire someone is sucking too." Hell, on my next deployment I'm taking a 220 electric blanket. >I'm not kidding.<
Case in point, my tasking to embed with the Army for a year to mentor a Senior Afghan General about the US Army supply system. Doesn't matter that I have never held a supply job in my career, let alone an army one. I am an AF logistician, therefor I know everything concerning logistics of any form fit or function. NOT!!!. Oh. OH GREAT! I guess this means I'm NOT getting the case of Scotch you promised? This war sucks.
This may be misplaced, but I think he had interesting deployments.
Little back story:
Last week end I meet my granddaughters great grandfather for the first time, at her second birthday party.
A retired LTC, who’s last assignment was as a MACV adviser in 1965, his prior points of interest were landing at Inchon and having jumped into Normandy. He retired with 22 years of service; 45 years ago.
Deaf as a door nail, I wish his hearing was in better shape, I would love hear the story of this man in relation to being in the initial action of three major wars. He raised 4 sons all were non Army career officers. BTW, his handshake was firm and his gaze was clear and intent, he eye balled everyone; he has to be 89-or so.
Utah Bob
03-03-2010, 22:45
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I ended up at Long Binh for 2 days doing some admin stuff for the BN. A friend said we should go over the the Bien Hoa side where the Air Force lived. The APs at the gate gently tried to get me to say I was on official business. "Hell no, we just wanna go see the Club", I insisted till I wised up and said, "Oh yeah. We're on official business. Harrumph Harrumph." Then they let our jeep in.
As we drove by the air conditioned barracks, on the way to the French Colonial mansion that was the club we passed the movie theater and saw the Airmen sunbathing on the manicured lawns reading newspapers from back in the world, a sense that something might be wrong came over me..........
As someone around here says frequently, "And so it goes".:rolleyes:
alright4u
03-03-2010, 23:42
I have to agree with the good General's assessment. If there are less reasons to want to be on a fire base, then everyone, to include the command "team" will want to get the job done and get home. Kinda reminds me of the old cartoon with the Grunt, Ranger, SF Guy and the AF guy "this sucks!". Just my .02$
I have no damn use for full service PX's BX's in combat zones. Now, beer, good cigars, razors, shaving cream, soap, etc. fine.
I guess this PC crap makes a beer a crime?
I'm torn on this issue.....it's pretty nice to grab a burger or a pizza after having been outside the wire for any extended period of time but I've seen many a FOB soldier develop a serious weight porblem while deployed.....
Joe_Snuffy
03-04-2010, 03:12
I talked to a few people who were heading back to Afghanistand while I was in Kuwait waiting to get back to Iraq. Apparently the issue isn't that the shops and such are taking away Soldier's readiness as much as the Army is footing the bill for everything that AAFES ships out there, not to mention the space that is being taken up by burger patties, tortillas, ect is the same space that is needed to send weapons parts, ammunition, and other supplies.
Though a cynical part of me does wonder if he's going to retire after this deployment and run for office somewhere with the money he's saved the Army as proof that he can help fix the economy.
Martinjmpr
03-04-2010, 10:51
Bagram was still pretty austere when I was there in 2003. We did have a PX (conveniently located right next to Camp Vance, the CJSOTF camp) but it was fairly small. Looking at it on Google Earth now I see it's grown quite a bit.
Kuwait in 2004 was a different story. Holy crap, that place was built up! Both Doha (which was in the process of closing) and Arifjan (which was expanding, big time, to take the place of Doha as the main US base) had huge "MWR" areas complete with large PX complexes, fast food joints, etc.
AFCHIC also hit the nail on the head - the camps are overstaffed, probably by a factor of 10:1.
Here's an example: My unit (HHB 115th FA Bde of the WYARNG) deployed about 60 people - very top heavy, I'm pretty sure we had more field grade officers than E-4 and below. I was part of a small group that was assigned some BS job monitoring the status of the camps in Kuwait - it was essentially a make-work job. We were replacing an E-7 and and E-5 who had done this job for about 6 months before we got there. And what did we replace them with?
- Two lower enlisted
- Two buck sergeants
- Two E-7s (one of them was me ;) )
and of course, a promotable Major to command them (he made LTC about a month later.)
We had so many people with so little to do that it was a joke. We basically spent most of the day surfing the internet or watching CNN/Fox news on the television in the J3.
We actually had days off, which blew my mind (we had no "days off" in Afghanistan, although in the JOC we were allowed to wear civvies on Sunday - I guess it was "casual Sunday.") We worked 8 hour "shifts" and honestly we struggled to find enough to do in those 8 hours.
The thing that pissed me off about this was that I was about to enter my last semester of law school when the unit got mobilized and they insisted on taking me because of my intel background, thinking they'd put me in an intel slot. Well, except for a brief stint in the 377th TSC G2, they didn't, I was basically an E-7 duty body (one of the other E-7s there started referring to us as the "Spec. 7.s")
This was a microcosm of what went on everywhere. You had some folks who were busting their asses 12 + hours a day, and others who did 15 minutes of actual work in a week.
I remember thinking while I was there that "this place badly needs an ISO 9000 review" because if it got one they'd send 75% of the people home.
Over on Arifjan, the not-enough-to-do mentality led to exactly the kind of stupid rules and regulations that the military always seems to come up with. I remember there was a female Sergeant Major who would stand in front of the DFAC checking for uniform violations. Her biggest concern seemed to be people wearing boonie hats without putting the little chin strap underneath it and the slider pushed up all the way to the chin.
(of course, this only applied to transient soldiers because in another brilliant move, the Arifjan CSM had declared that all personnel assigned there would wear only BDU caps, no boonies. Yes, even the mechanics in the motor pool working in 125 degree temps were prohibited from wearing boonie hats.)
This was the same CSM who, in a Sergeant's Major meeting I had to attend, referred to some upcoming "Ethnics training." No, not "ethics" (which is what it actually was), but "ETHNICS" training. :rolleyes:
The problem, of course, is that no commander wants to give up anybody and nobody wants to admit he can do his job with only half the people. So you have a lot of folks underemployed and getting into trouble.