View Full Version : Wake-up Call
The Reaper
02-03-2010, 20:47
On the topic of preparedness, but slightly different, consider this.
After you prepare for a fire, tornado, etc., and have your drills down, think about what you need to do in the event of an intruder (or multiples) in your home.
What is your drill?
Who else is in the home and what are their responsibilities?
How do you protect them?
Can your spouse use a firearm to hold a door or hallway/defend herself?
How will you notify your family that there is an intruder and to initiate the reaction plan?
Do you have near and far rally points?
Do you have a signal for the family to flee the house for the rally point?
Do you have a trusted neighbor who will quickly let you/your family in in the middle of the night and protect them?
What gear would you need to protect yourself, defend your home, and ensure a positive outcome for you and yours?
Where is it now?
How will you carry it?
How long does it take you to gather and don it?
How long does it take you to identify that there is an intruder, initiate your drill, and be ready to engage?
Just a few random thoughts since I was recently asked if I had a plan. Admittedly, this is likely a low-probability event, but the consequences of being unprepared are huge.
Anyone want to join in?
TR
Although I live in a 'safe' suburban area, the boys are grown and gone, and it is just my wife and I -
House has high-security windows/doors
High-pitched beep sounds if door/window is opened (anytime day or night)
Shotgun (loaded + box of extra shells) is next to my side of the bed behind wing-back chair at the far end of the house from main entrance down long hallway
Telephone (portable) is on the nightstand next to my side of the bed with 911 set on #1 on speed-dial and speaker phone
Master bathroom off of master bedroom is furthest room at end of house and easily secured
Master bedroom has French Doors (with secured exterior security gate) which exit to interior patio and back yard
;)
Richard
I believe the small size (1500-2000sq ft. on average) and configuration of the dwellings in my area limit the options. In my case it's 3 bedroom ranch, front and back entrances are at one end of the house and across from each other.
One positive is that you could cover both entrances easily and remain concealed. And it might while the kids jump out the window to the front lawn.
At present, crime in the area is very low and most burglaries/intrusions happen in the day while folks are away and the perps are tend to be workers for contractors, lawn care, maid services, etc.
I'll ponder it.
HowardCohodas
02-03-2010, 21:20
I recently attended a seminar sponsored by the FAA on survival. It seems that us private pilots sometimes land away from the airport and survive the crash. It's then that we do dumb things that end up in the death of the pilot and passengers.
The most significant perspective I gained is a consciousness, if not obsessiveness, for the weight of my survival gear. IIRC, I spoke of this in a thread regarding some rain gear that was recommended. I think weight is a useful focus for survival gear whether it is for your flight (pilot) or your flight (escape).
Because I am a CCP instructor, I am also concerned with first responder gear. I currently have much of the gear SWATSURGEON recommended in other threads with me at all times. This gear used to be just tossed in my range bag, however I sometimes make an unplanned stop at the range and may not have my range bag with me. I have been experimenting with a messenger bag which is on me quite a lot of the time and with me always. Please don't laugh too loudly, but part of my inspiration came from watching new episodes of 24 after a 2-3 year hiatus. Some call it my "Jack Bag." :D
As a challenge to myself, I am trying to integrate what I learned from First Medical Responder School, SWATSURGEON and the FAA survival school. Weight and size are two important criteria. I look forward to this thread providing insights for my journey.
The Reaper
02-03-2010, 21:35
Although I live in a 'safe' suburban area, the boys are grown and gone, and it is just my wife and I -
House has high-security windows/doors
High-pitched beep sounds if door/window is opened (anytime day or night)
Shotgun (loaded + box of extra shells) is next to my side of the bed behind wing-back chair at the far end of the house from main entrance down long hallway
Telephone (portable) is on the nightstand next to my side of the bed with 911 set on #1 on speed-dial and speaker phone
Master bathroom off of master bedroom is furthest room at end of house and easily secured
Master bedroom has French Doors (with secured exterior security gate) which exit to interior patio and back yard
;)
Richard
Good physical security preparations.
I take it that you plan to hole up in your bedroom, if possible, and defend from there while awaiting LE response?
How will you identify intruders and acquire targets in the darkness?
Do you own less than lethal weapons?
Is your cell phone in the bedroom, in case your landline is cut?
How will you restrain/detain apprehended or wounded intruders while waiting for law enforcement? What if they decline to wait?
Do you have a trauma kit handy for yourself, your family members, or wounded intruder(s)?
Do you have trousers and shoes handy, or plan to don them before clearing the house?
TR
Now that we live 5 miles from Trenton, and must lock our doors for the first time in 10 years, we have a basic plan in place:
1. 12 gauge Remington my side, loaded, safety on, wife need training, but has shot guns prior.
2. .45 Glock my side, 5 clips @ 13 round
3. All Cell Phones now on speed dial - Tx Richard
4. Stay in the room, catty corner from the door, protect our corner- Tx TS
5. If no LEO arrive within 10 minutes (Station is 3 away) exit back roof and exit the area.
6. If the SHTF we exit the whole AO for my brothers place in the upper Bucks Co, PA
Kiss prinicple
My plan needs a lot of work. I live on the main hwy in a rural (damned little) town about 2hrs from DC, so the risks of a home invasion is real.
I have a 60 pound shepherd/lab mix who is especially territorial. Someone barging in will have to deal with her. That gives me some time to get out the 16ga, 870 loaded with slugs. I have a .38 Special at the nightstand. No NV/IR system, and if it comes to fight or flight, then it's fight like the Alamo.
As for dealing with injuries, I'm doomed. So's the intruder, though.
Great points to consider, sir. I will take action.
craigepo
02-03-2010, 22:17
Damnit, I had been comfortably numb until this thread(which is remarkably stupid on my part).
Richard---what is/are the criteria for a "high-security" window, and do most modern energy-efficient windows qualify?
Next question---Living in a very remote area, what would be a good STANO-esque device for the ground outside the house(nearest neighbor 1/2 mile away, I own 230 acre farm)? When I was a kid, farmers who didn't want people sneaking into their fishing ponds would buy a couple of jackasses and turn them loose in the pasture. The jackasses would bray like crazy if anybody came around, day or night. I'm wondering if this would be both more effective and cheaper than electronics.
Next question---If I were going to try to kill me, I wouldn't break into the house(My FPF would be quite formidable)(My personal worries are much more along the assassination thought instead of the random burglar idea). Instead, I would set fire to the house, wait for me to run outside in the middle of the night, then open fire. Anybody have any good anti-arson ideas?(Yes, I'm probably being paranoid, but that doesn't mean the bastards aren't out to get me).
This thread is distressingly thought-provoking. More questions to follow.
I take it that you plan to hole up in your bedroom, if possible, and defend from there while awaiting LE response?
How will you identify intruders and acquire targets in the darkness?
VOCO challenge
There is a 'panic' button next to the light switch on my wife's side of the bed which turns on exterior lights as well as lights in living/dining areas at front of house - hallway and bedrooms at rear of the house not affected.
Do you own less than lethal weapons?
Baseball bat behind front door.
Is your cell phone in the bedroom, in case your landline is cut?
Wife keeps her cell next to bed.
How will you restrain/detain apprehended or wounded intruders while waiting for law enforcement? What if they decline to wait?
Treat as POW - hold at gun-point face down on front yard - hold wounded at gun-point in place.
If they decline to wait - let them go, monitor direction, and give detailed ID to police.
Do you have a trauma kit handy for yourself, your family members, or wounded intruder(s)?
Kitchen, master bathroom, garage, each vehicle.
Do you have trousers and shoes handy, or plan to don them before clearing the house?
I now sleep in Eddie Bauer flannel pants/boxers and cotton t-shirt, we keep Uggs slippers next to the bed.
Longstreet
02-03-2010, 22:27
!?!
The Reaper
02-03-2010, 22:29
Richard:
Good plan, far better than most. Get a good tactical flashlight, if not a weapons light. Small powerful flashlights, especially weapons mounted lights, are much more economical than night vision devices, and both have pros/cons.
Baseball bats are not necessarily non-lethal weapons. I prefer OC spray, kept in the bedroom, vehicle, etc., just like trauma kits. Handcuffs or flex-cuffs might not be a bad idea, if you can cuff while still covering. Practice first.
I put my trousers (with all of my EDC junk in them), shirt, and footwear by the bed every night before retiring, just in case. Broken glass on the floor and no shoes is not going to be fun.
Most dogs are great early warning and some are also defensive assets.
While I like cameras and alarms, complementary, with layers, I have heard that geese are also territorial and hostile to strangers.
Deter, deny, delay, detect, and defeat.
Anti-arson? Damn, Judge! You must have some bad ones.
Masonry structure with relatively few windows or doors, no flammables like woodpiles or aboveground fuel tanks nearby, brush cleared away from the house, fire extinguishers and fire blankets handy inside for fire suppression.
Frankly, just as easy to shoot you when you are headed out to work or coming home as it is to start a fire and attract responders.
- the law states that I must keep my firearm unloaded and secured, so I will need to unlock it (trigger lock) and load it with rounds that will be kept in my night table (I plan on practicing with my shotgun and will be able to load it in darkness)
jaYson
Honestly, how do they know if it is locked and unloaded, if you do not tell them?
Do they come by and inspect it at random intervals?
If not, I seriously suggest that you put all of your items away and set your alarm clock for a random time during the night. When it goes off, have your significant other start a stopwatch (or note the time) while you execute your plan, in the dark (power cut or avoiding attention from the intruder. I really doubt that you will be able to unlock/load/make ready in less than a minute or two.
Break.
Okay, a sudden sound of breaking glass awakens you tonight, what do you do? First, and then in sequence.
TR
Richard---what is/are the criteria for a "high-security" window, and do most modern energy-efficient windows qualify?
My front windows are reinforced energy efficient windows with added non-opening exterior storm windows and motion sensors in the front room/entry hall areas.
My side and rear windows are energy efficient with reinforced steel 'burglar bars' which are hinged and can be opened from the outside with a master key (we keep it in the master bedroom near the patio exit doors) or from the inside without a key for emergencies.
My vision is that a burglar will look at my house and say, "We'll go somewhere else."
Richard
HowardCohodas
02-03-2010, 22:35
Anyone else have a SO that lives in denial and forbids weapons in the house, let alone in the bedroom? I married her 40+ years ago before I understood life, so a new SO is not an option. ;) I'd tell you what I do, but this forum is open to and scanned by search engines and I'm not prepared to show my hand to my SO.
The Reaper
02-03-2010, 22:45
Anyone else have a SO that lives in denial and forbids weapons in the house, let alone in the bedroom? I married her 40+ years ago before I understood life, so a new SO is not an option. ;) I'd tell you what I do, but this forum is open to and scanned by search engines and I'm not prepared to show my hand to my SO.
That would have been a deal breaker.
TR
Anyone else have a SO that lives in denial and forbids weapons in the house, let alone in the bedroom?
My wife does not like weapons much but can entertain the thought of how good it would feel to rid the world of someone who has most likely harmed someone else and was now trying to harm her, her loved ones, or her property.
We considered pistols - she knows how to shoot - but settled for the shotgun mainly for the psychological effect and the lessened need to aim when confronting somebody in a hallway, room, etc.
FWIW - the physical and mental response to the action and sound of a round being jacked into the chamber of the pump shotgun seems to help her prepare herself mentally and physically for such an encounter. Works for us.
Richard
Longstreet
02-03-2010, 23:12
!?!
HowardCohodas
02-03-2010, 23:19
That would have been a deal breaker.
TR
That was then, this is now.
It is what it is. :(
On the topic of preparedness, but slightly different, consider this.
After you prepare for a fire, tornado, etc., and have your drills down, think about what you need to do in the event of an intruder (or multiples) in your home.
What is your drill?
Forced entry:
SLLS first off, ID the entry point. They will either be coming in the front or back door. Back door will most likely be shattering glass, as it's a sun porch. Front door will result in screen door then front door breach. From inside of our bedroom we can have eyes on the stairwell down to the first floor (entry floor) as well as visually check the second bedroom's security (pistol lanyard secures it to keep the mutt and cat out since the door doesn't latch)
Call local dispatch directly, avoiding 911 because of the time-waste up here where you go to a primary operator who then routes you to someone who actually can send response your way. 2 minutes of time saved by that. ID our location, intruder in the home, unknown or probable count, we are armed, need troopers here yesterday.
There's a rather bright nightlight in the landing in such a position that it is incapable of silouetting anyone on the 2nd floor to anyone coming up the stairs or telegraphing via shadow downstairs. It does illuminate VERY well and make our bedroom a complete blind spot for anyone coming up the stairs. Tactical advantage by not having to have taclights deployed until final confirmation and order to stop, unless armed... if they're armed.....
Once we've established that the immediate area is secure and that we don't have any intruders on the 2nd floor, I flow out first, covering the stairwell, wife right behind me clearing bathroom and laundry area. Then the dog gets released from her kennel and the wife takes control of her since I'm running with the AR covering the stairwell from above/behind. Hard point there until troopers arrive, we have positive confirmation they are on scene by the dispatcher, and that they have cleared the first floor, at which point we will come downstairs.
Disturbance but no entry: Clear the top floor, get the dog out of the kennel, then send her out. Clear down behind her to the point of ruckus and take appropriate action at that point. There are few red zones in our house and we have practiced clearing this house to the point that it's pretty much muscle memory.
I most likely will have sweatpants and slippers on, the wife her sleeping clothes.
Who else is in the home and what are their responsibilities?
Wife, child eventually. Wife's #2 with specific areas of responsibility within our home defense plan, the (in 10 weeks)infant is an infant. Nothing will harm my child.
How do you protect them?
aforementioned plan, once we have the kid we'll probably adjust our investigation plan to simply holding hard and waiting a long 10 minutes for troopers to arrive to figure out what is going on, and at least get an exterior inspection of the home to determine if there WAS entry to the house, and work it from there..
Can your spouse use a firearm to hold a door or hallway/defend herself?
Yes, I have taught her how to room clear as part of a team, she's more capable than some grunts I've met.
How will you notify your family that there is an intruder and to initiate the reaction plan?
We'll be home, in bed together since the wife works nights. The reaction plan goes into operation for anything out of the ordinary, ordinary being silence. People call us before they come visit, we're on a dead end dirt road. We don't get random visitors.
Do you have near and far rally points?
Breaking contact isn't an option, we cannot safely exit the second story sleeping area and to be honest, if an oh-shit situation happened and we were downstairs it'd end up being a react to contact drill if the home's perimeter was breached.
Do you have a signal for the family to flee the house for the rally point?
n/a
Do you have a trusted neighbor who will quickly let you/your family in in the middle of the night and protect them?
Not planned, breaking contact due to a threat is a bad idea/option due to the layout of the house.
What gear would you need to protect yourself, defend your home, and ensure a positive outcome for you and yours?
AR-15, .45 pistol, shotgun depending
Where is it now?
AR-15 is upstairs leaning on the wall, shotgun on the same wall, both my side of the bed. Expert is in the wife's dresser.
How will you carry it?
Pistols are condition one in this house, I always have mine on or basically right in front of me.
Shotgun is on fire, hammer dropped on empty chamber, slide slack. Rack and go.
AR is aircraft loaded, on safe. Rack and go.
How long does it take you to gather and don it?
About 4 seconds at worst
How long does it take you to identify that there is an intruder, initiate your drill, and be ready to engage?
6 seconds or less to 2 barrels covering the bedroom entrance, things go a bit more dynamic after that.
My best time booting an unlocked door and scooting upstairs was 10 seconds, that's not adding in the fact that the door is reinforced as best as I can, the door is in a crappy position to effectively kick due to our arctic entry(I had to get in once before that way) and that they'd have to get through our semi-solid screen door which would add at least 3 seconds on a good day.
Just a few random thoughts since I was recently asked if I had a plan. Admittedly, this is likely a low-probability event, but the consequences of being unprepared are huge.
Anyone want to join in?
TR
There you go.
And to add, hard pointing on the stairs provides the most location-dependant safe backstop for expended non-meat-bullettrapped rounds. It's shooting down at a 45 degree angle or so at a completely open area with an individual standing on the second landing for our 3 turn stairs coming up to the 2nd story.
The front door opens in such a manner that it actually provides an immediate barrier to anyone that wanted to directly head upstairs, slowing them down.
I guess I can toss in that illegal entry of an occupied building in this state is 2nd degree burglary and under the criminal law use of force statutes, a burglary is cause for stopping with all means of force available. There is no duty to retreat inside of a building.
We also have medical supplies, and a plethora of flexcuffs for restraint/care if necessary. If they run they'll just end up meeting the en-route troopers and their handheld thermals in their cars when they start the manhunt. Most likely N911AA will also get dispatched from anchorage, and I know the pilot will be making sure the manhunt is successful with his FLIR as well. Semi-advantage of a pseudo-rural area.
This is of great concern to me as a wife of a soldier who is gone a lot. I've gotten good suggestions from you all before, and I've implemented a lot of them -
cell phone by bed
monitored alarm system
loud beeping whenever doors are opened
non-lethal weapons in my room... sort of
I'm not comfortable with my ability to shoot a gun, though this is high on our priority list to rectify. For now, I have Surefire flashlights in my car, bedside table and kitchen. I've also got two Hideaway knives that are with me or near me always.
This past summer I decided it was time to get a dog for a number of reasons, not the least of which being home security. Our Great Dane isn't a guard dog, but she looks and sounds quite imposing. She also can hear when the back gate is opened and has a nice loud bark.
One of my biggest concerns is my kids. We aren't in the biggest house ever, but I very frequently play through how, if an intruder were to get in the house, I could get my kids all in one room. We are in three separate rooms that are separated by a hall/landing area. One of my kids might wake-up if I called for them, but two of them can sleep through earthquakes. I'm not sure how I could logistically work getting us all together and out of the house without running headlong in to the intruder.
Ideas?
armymom1228
02-04-2010, 00:19
Next question---Living in a very remote area, what would be a good STANO-esque device for the ground outside the house(nearest neighbor 1/2 mile away, I own 230 acre farm)? When I was a kid, farmers who didn't want people sneaking into their fishing ponds would buy a couple of jackasses and turn them loose in the pasture. The jackasses would bray like crazy if anybody came around, day or night. I'm wondering if this would be both more effective and cheaper than electronics.
w.
Geese are unbelievably territorial. They use them for security on English farms.
Every been chased or pecked by a goose? Nasty critters. Disturbed at night, they are both vocal and mean. Not to mention they make a great dinner.:D
ZonieDiver
02-04-2010, 00:30
grab my soon-to-be shotgun (I just got my firearm license and have been researching my first firearm - a Remington 870 - which I will be purchasing in a few weeks)
How glad I am to live in Arizona!
I have a Mossberg 500 bedside. (I couldn't afford an 870 back in the day.) I sleep upstairs, with a bend in the stairs. There is a deadbolt on the front door, and back door...only entry other than windows. Other things, as mentioned, have been instituted. One thing has not - my SO is not a "weapons" person. However, she is bright (or I would not be with her) and educable. She has accepted the shotgun, and from her rural uprbringing, even brought forth a .32 revolver!
Delay, deny! Count on 911 for nothing more than the "tagging of your toe"! It is up to you. Period.
armymom1228
02-04-2010, 01:15
This is of great concern to me as a wife of a soldier who is gone a lot. I've gotten good suggestions from you all before, and I've implemented a lot of them -
]
This past summer I decided it was time to get a dog for a number of reasons, not the least of which being home security. Our Great Dane isn't a guard dog, but she looks and sounds quite imposing. She also can hear when the back gate is opened and has a nice loud bark.
I lived, about ten yrs ago, in a group of Townhomes. Of the 25 homes, only three were not buguralized during a 3 month period. ALL of the townhouses not broken into had dogs. Intruders have no idea whether a dog will bite or not. :D
One of my biggest concerns is my kids. Ideas?[/QUOTE]
You have them trained how to call 911? Rather than trying to get them to your room, look where they can hide in thier room, back of a closet, under the bed, that sort of thing.
HisDisciple
02-04-2010, 03:14
and while I do not have any children (yet) leaving an unlocked loaded firearm in the corner of a room does not sit well with me. It just seems like an accident waiting to happen and is far more likely to accidently hurt/kill a 'good guy' rather than a 'bad guy'.
Why do you posess a defensive tool then(shotgun)?
Nothing will happen with a loaded shotgun unless you touch it.
Back to the break in . . . with the call made, I would approach my stairs and yell down that I know someone is there and that the police have been called.
I would also inform the intruder(s) that I am armed and would procede to cock my shotgun. Hopefully this would scare away the intruder.
There are so many things wrong with this plan.
Giving away your position by voice. You had the upper hand until you said something. Approaching the intruder so that he can hear you. Probability for being shot increases. You are now walking slower and probably trying to see him, so that you may speak. Telling him your armed just gave him a reason too shoot you.
Firearms are not to scare anybody, they are a tool for a specific use. i.e. don't draw unless you're going to shoot. Why?
If you view guns as intimidators, you won't have the drive to pull the trigger in the seconds it takes to react before you're shot at.
Your mind will be racing about the consequences and everything else and fail to act. Then it will be too late.
Should it not work, given the layout of my stairs, if the intruder was to try to walk up them, I could fire a warning in safety and retreat back to my room if the intruder continued. From here I would again lie down perpendicuar to the door with her beside me.
jaYson
You just wasted ammo with that warning shot, giving him time to get cover and think about how he will assault the stairs and murder you.
A better idea is to keep a loaded shotgun in your room.
Know how to find it in the dark. It would be better to have it already chambered so that the intruder dosen't hear the loud chambering "cocking".
Use the element of suprise and you being on the second floor to get the jump on him. A weapon light is gold in situation like this. Don't storm around though with your hand on the pressure switch. A shotgun light is a lighthouse and represents a huge target until you get him in the eyes.
Longstreet, I'm proud that you decided to do the right thing and protect your life and your girlfriend's life by buying a gun. I know in Canada guns are taboo.
I guess it's because of the French influence.:p
It would be interesting to know if the QPs here have a gun in each room hidden in the event of an emergency.;)
Some may think I am a bit cautious, but in college I carried around a 3day assualt pack as a backpack with an extra change of clothes, knives, and water bottles just in case a natural disaster/SHTF struck. It didn't hurt and I learned to be prepared.
TR and Richard have great ideas. Having a Medkit is amazing advise. TF Kilo like yours also. I love this thread.
incarcerated
02-04-2010, 03:26
It is bizarre that we are discussing this now.
An acquaintance had a home invasion in an affluent suburb here about three weeks ago. He keeps a Sig handy, and was able to repel all boarders (four of them).
Now he keeps an AR close by.
Great topic.
HowardCohodas
02-04-2010, 03:46
Geese are unbelievably territorial. They use them for security on English farms.
Every been chased or pecked by a goose? Nasty critters. Disturbed at night, they are both vocal and mean. Not to mention they make a great dinner.:D
Until I was 9 my parents lived in the farmhouse with his my Dad's parents and one of his brothers. One year my Uncle decided to add geese to the stock of animals we raised for food and sale. That 100 or so geese we started with were never replaced.
Noisy, territorial and mean does not even come close to my memory of these critters. Years later, when my Grandparents lived there alone they were subject to constant middle-of-the-night robberies of the above-ground fuel tank. It never occurred to me until your post that geese might have been a welcome layer of protection.
bravo22b
02-04-2010, 07:57
My plan is still in evolution.
Since I have re-enlisted in the NG, my wife is now at home alone for longer and more frequent periods. Last year I bought a new M-4gery (RRA, and thanks to the members of the board for advice given). I had already taught her to shoot an AR-15 with good accuracy (she can shoot better than most privates, for sure), but it had been awhile since she had practiced. I took her to the range with my H&K USP.40, a S&W .357 4" (loaded with .38 special), my Mossberg 590, and the new M4. I let her shoot all four, and pick which one she felt most comfortable with. In the end, the M4 was the weapon of choice for lack of perceived recoil, ease of target engagement at short range, and high capacity (unlikely to need reloading).
That said, my wife and I live in a small, relatively quiet suburb with close neighbors. The police force is a good, and probably underused department, and I would expect reaction times in well under five minutes, realistically probably 2-3 minutes. We have a centrally monitored alarm, although it is not on that much, and there is no possibility that gunfire would go unnoticed or unreported to the police. All doors have deadbolts, and the doors are kept locked 99% of the time, even when we are home. Almost all windows are double pane glass. There are outdoor floodlights covering the parts of the house that do not face the street.
Her prep is this:
wireless land line by bedside
cell phone by bedside
M4 under bed, 30 rd. magazine with 55 gr. ammo
Flashlight in bedside table
Our bedroom is only accessible by a staircase that leads to the first floor back of the house, and a door that leads to the front of the house. Conveniently, there is a french door at the top of the stairwell, and from the french doors to the door leading to the front of the house is appx. 40'. If awoken by an intruder, she is to grab the phones, grab the M4, and move to the corner of the room overlooking the stairwell, then call 911. There is a spare 30 rd. magazine on a table in that corner of the room. From that position, the only way to get at her is by either opening the door to the bedroom, or coming up the back stairs. If an intruder opens the door, she has an unobstructed 40' line of sight, and therefore engagement range. Any rounds fired from that position to the door would have to penetrate two layers of plaster, then another layer of plaster and a concrete block wall to exit the house. If an intruder comes up the back stair, they will have to fight their way up a stairwell against a scared and angry woman with an M4. Any rounds fired down the stairwell can only overpenetrate into the ground outside.
For me, I wear (PJ) pants to bed, and would prefer to move around the house in bare feet for stealth, if necessary. As a habit picked up as a young 11B training for night ops, I tend to move around the house during darkness without using lights anyway. I'm pretty confident that between my familiarity with the layout of the house, ability to move quietly and operate in the dark, and marksmanship, I have the upper hand against 99% of anyone that would be breaking into my house. There will be no verbal or audible warning against an armed intruder other than the report of a discharged weapon. If it was glaringly obvious that the intruder was unarmed, they will be dealt with EPW style until the police come. That said, I think I need to come up with some more detailed plans for if both my wife and I are home.
Thanks to TR for bringing up this subject and for everyone who has contributed. I am already getting some good ideas to improve my plan.
Inceptor
02-04-2010, 09:06
I have been thinking about this since I enlisted, especially in regards to how my wife will be able to react to an incident while I'm away. Any suggestions for improvement would be greatly appreciated.
Perimeter Security:
-All doors and windows have magnetic alarms, loud enough to wake the dead (we are light sleepers anyway.)
-Front and rear entry have lights on 24/7 (Energy saving bulbs)
-Motion-activated floodlights cover entire back yard, which is fenced.
-Arsenal, my 150lb Great Dane serves as notice of anyone within 20ft of the house. His bark shakes the walls. It has been enough to turn away a few salespeople and Jehovah's Witnesses...
Interior Security:
-Again, the dog will certainly slow someone down. They will have to kill him or drag him along as he chews off their legs.
-All interior doors remain closed. No interior lights at night.
-Glock 21 in the nightstand, my side. Equipped with TLR-1 light and fiber optic/tritium sights.
-Mossberg 500 20ga under the bed, her side. Flashlight in her nightstand.
-Cell Phones on each nightstand.
-Backup weapons throughout the house (.357 in kitchen, .380 in bathroom, etc.) AR and other rifles are in secure storage, not part of intrusion plan.
-Baseball bat beside door is for obnoxious vandals who mess with the mailbox/vehicles. (No issues so far at this place)
Reaction Plan (I'm Home):
1. G21 in hand, assess situation, ensure wife has shotgun ready and is in secure location in corner behind bed. Her flashlight goes on the bed at an off angle to her position, pointed at the door, lights off until needed.
2. Wife calls 911 from corner, based on noise and dog reaction I either stay in room with her or proceed to clear house. If the bedroom door opens it's the last move they make.
Reaction Plan (I'm away):
1. Wife has G21, goes to her corner and assesses situation.
2. Wife calls 911, holds steady until police arrive. Feel sorry for anyone who opens the door before that, as she is very proficient with the .45 (Trips to the range have been a regular part of my pre-training preparation.)
If we're not in the bedroom when an invasion occurs, she is to retreat to the bedroom, lights out, and carry out the plan as normal. I am to secure the nearest weapon and handle the threat while making my way there. Both plans depend on the exterior and canine alarms to alert us/her to a possible intruder. Both also rely heavily on blackout conditions inside the house to conceal our positions and offer the advantage of instant blinding from the weapon light and/or flashlight. Both plans will change with children.
After-Action Plan:
1. (I'm home) Any wounded / surrendered intruders will be restrained with duct-tape and held at gun-point until the police arrive. Seriously wounded intruders will be attended to if possible using the medical kit in the kitchen.
2. (I'm away) Wife holds intruders at gun-point until police arrive. Wounded intruders are out of luck.
3. Intruders who flee will have their direction of travel noted and the police will have to handle it from there.
Is there anything I'm missing, especially for when she's by herself?
craigepo
02-04-2010, 10:04
I am still finding this thread disconcerting. And I think Richard has a good idea.
Having thought about the issue, it seems that I need to "fort-ify" my home. As I do not live with a team/squad, my level of security is never 100%, and is often 0%. Further, my cyclic rate of fire is much, much lower than when I had access to an M-4, M-249, or M-240. Moreover, I have no access to claymores, and my birddogs and other critters would blow every trip wire I could emplace.
Accordingly, out of necessity, using a firearm at an attacker who is inside my house would signify a failure of my defense plan.
My worry is, personally, not two dudes breaking in looking for $ to buy meth. My fear is one professional whose target is me.
My old senior Echo is a US Marshall, and has done a lot of personal security for big-named people. He made a comment that has stuck with me to this day: "If a guy who is good wants to get a shot at you, he is going to get a shot at you."
More random thoughts to follow
HowardCohodas
02-04-2010, 10:12
My fear is one professional whose target is me.
Wow. I can't imagine the life choices that would make you as a particular person a target. If you have and that's your fear, change your life.
You have them trained how to call 911? Rather than trying to get them to your room, look where they can hide in thier room, back of a closet, under the bed, that sort of thing.
All 3 do know how to call 911, but none of them have phones in their rooms and I'd highly doubt they would know there was a problem unless someone woke them up. It's the "alerting them to danger" when it's just me in the house that I can't figure out. I'm curious to see what happens if the house alarm goes off and they are asleep. It hasn't happened before, but I might make a drill out of it. We've tried it with the fire alarm and they don't budge. Studies have shown that kids need the voice fire alarms that basically shout at you. It is on the list of things to get, but I do have a plan for getting them out should a fire happen and they aren't ever home alone at night without an adult.
Me vs. the intruder leaves no one to deal with the kids. And if I can't defeat the intruder, that leaves the intruder vs. the kids and that isn't acceptable.
I do have a particularly vigilant neighbor across the street and we keep the exterior of the house lit well. As others have noted, I would hope I've done enough at this point to deter someone from thinking my house is a good target but I'd like to and plan on doing more.
bravo22b
02-04-2010, 10:28
Wow. I can't imagine the life choices that would make you as a particular person a target. If you have and that's your fear, change your life.
If you check craigepo's profile, you'll see he is a judge.
HowardCohodas
02-04-2010, 10:35
If you check craigepo's profile, you'll see he is a judge.
Stepped on it twice in one day. I should have checked the profile first.
I can understand his worry and thank God for his service as a judge.
REAPER, awesome topic and it gets a man to thinking… I really need to get a better plan laid out for the kids. I have an added hurdle as one of them has special needs. She is 21 years old, but moves pretty slow.
I keep the following on the nightstand; wireless landline and cell phones, XD-45 with spare mag, Sure-Fire light, vehicle keys with the keyless fob so I can hit the panic button to set off the alarm. I keep my SR556 under the bed with 1, 20 round mag loaded with TAP ammo and extra 30 round mag of M193. Shoes an old flight suit and go-bag between the nightstand and bed.
I mounted a green laser on the SR556 for shock value, but I’m not really sure if I’ll keep it on there or not. My wife has quick access to the 870 and can handle it fairly well.
We have 2 small ankle grabbers that raise hell anytime someone they don’t know is in the house. We have a 2 story Charleston style house with a large front porch top and bottom, but no real exit plan for the 2nd floor. Any ideas on that?
There are so many things wrong with this plan.
Giving away your position by voice. You had the upper hand until you said something. Approaching the intruder so that he can hear you. Probability for being shot increases. You are now walking slower and probably trying to see him, so that you may speak. Telling him your armed just gave him a reason too shoot you.
Firearms are not to scare anybody, they are a tool for a specific use. i.e. don't draw unless you're going to shoot. Why?
If you view guns as intimidators, you won't have the drive to pull the trigger in the seconds it takes to react before you're shot at.
Your mind will be racing about the consequences and everything else and fail to act. Then it will be too late.
I'm inclined to disagree with this disagreement. :)
I lean in Longstreet's direction here.
Seems that most people have a cell phone. A burglar who hears "the police are on the way" would have every reason to believe it. "I have a shotgun and I'll use it" should deter the "casual" burglar, usually some teenager from the neighborhood (ex-LEO here). And, in those states without a "castle" law, that phrase on the 911 tape may bear a LOT of weight.
Besides, I've had one father-in-law and two sons "sneak" into the house late at night (using keys) when they couldn't go to their own homes for various reasons. I'm not sure I would have recognized them, but "Hey, it's me", in answer to a loud challenge, prevented tragedy.
Any intimidator beats an exchange of gunfire IMHO, especially with my family on the other side of various thin pieces of drywall. And I am inclined to believe that an alert adult voice with an aggressive tone sends a signal that a far easier "victim" might be found elsewhere.
On the "defense of home" side, I am prepared to defend the part of my home that is occupied. My electronic equipment and camera are insured. Venturing forth from my bedroom to do combat in unoccupied areas isn't worth the risk. I am the major source of income here, and my loss would have a far more drastic effect than the absence of my TV. That potential $10,000 or more for a lawyer to defend my actions is a bit of a bite as well.
And, bottom line, I don't WANT to shoot some teen-dufus who wants to steal enough of my stuff to get a new IPOD.
On the barrier side of things, my ranch is divided into three areas by pocket doors, and they aren't the thin internal doors that some use. These are strong and well-seated. Confuses the hell out of people who don't know the layout well. You hit a door, you fumble for the knob, and there is no knob. :)
Additionally, there are some excellent, cheap home security cameras. I have one that shoots down the hallway that connects all rooms. It connects (by radio signal) to a cheap monitor by my bed. My hall light (or if I wish, every light in the house) comes on when motion is sensed. That causes a loud beep and the cheap b/w monitor screen comes to life. Beats hell out of sticking my head around the corner.
In order to attract attention and make any intruder feel uncomfortable, I also have a wireless perimeter system that broadcasts to a console in my BR closet. That console is wired to one deafening siren under a metal roof vent and one each red, one each blue, strobe light that flash onto my yard. Not only does it alert self and neighbors, but it attracts the curious. And, there's something about flashing blue and red lights that disconcerts intruders. :)
My little camera also records on a hidden backup computer drive, but that's for after-action. Still, a good clear picture of a burglar is an excellent aid to recovering property.
Question.
Is it true that a large percentages of home invasions or home burglaries are perpetrated by people that know you and the surroundings in some manner?
The reason I ask that is that it would appear to me that the perp would have much better chance of success if they had prior knowledge of what you have and where it located. Whereas if it is random, they are going in blind and might come up empty handed.
Edited.
Good questions about defense in depth and rally points above, all things I'll need to consider as my household grows. I also like the idea of keeping all members of the family on the 2nd floor with my room near the chokepoint.
The Reaper
02-04-2010, 19:07
HC, you need to slow down and read before commenting for a while. Ready, aim, fire.
His Disciple, while I agree that firing a warning shot is a bad idea, I have quite a few issues with the rest of your commentary. Unless you have some special military or LE training that is missing from your profile, you should probably save your advice for areas where you do have some expertise.
Plato, I like the way you are thinking.
LRSU, b22b, inceptor, good prep. All I can say about higher floors with limited exit options is to make sure that the window can be opened and consider planting something soft below.
Shar, how old is your oldest child? Could he/she be put in charge of collecting the others and hiding or slipping out of the house to the neighbors? We live in a house with a split plan, and our kids are in the opposite end of the house. Our oldest is responsible for gathering the youngest and getting to safety. You could keep an air horn in the bedroom for fires and intruders, just make sure everyone knows what they are supposed to do and has rehearsed it.
Again, dogs are great, especially if at least one is kept indoors.
911 calls can be as short as necessary. The lines are all recorded now, and in most areas, the location shows up when the call is received. You couldf literally dial the number and drop the phone while yelling at the intruder. I do not need the moral support of the dispatcher (who seem to vary widely in quality these days), and the recording may be used in your hearing/trial, so all I have to say is "This is Mr. X., at YZ Maple Street. There is an intruder in my home, I am afraid that he might be armed. I have a gun and am prepared to defend my family. I am afraid for their safety. Please hurry." It does not matter if the intruder hears this or not, though your legal position is better iof he does. Then drop the phone or hand it to the spouse. I do not plan to get into a gunfight while yakking on a phone.
Great point about the legal aftermath. If you do not currently get American Handgunner, get a copy and read Massad Ayoob's column. He is usually testifying in some citizen's trial as an expert and you would not believe how often people are charged or sued. $10,000 in legal fees for a righteous shooting is probably a starting point.
You might be surprised at how effective properly placed nightlights can be for tactical illum. You know the layout and their location. The intruder probably does not. That is enough to manuever, should you need to, until you have the need to engage. Then once you have determined the number and location of intruders, and are ready to engage, a powerful hand held or weapons light can be applied for final ID prior to one final voice command and engaging. If the intruder is armed and failes to respond to the voice command, or appears to be unarmed but acts aggressively, then it is time to engage.
Do not forget that a car of excited cops are about to show up at a crime scene where they know at least one person is armed. Never point the weapon at the responding officers, try to put it in a safe place as they arrive, and obey all instructions they issue to the letter. Hopefully, you have ID handy and can quickly establish that you are the homeowner.
You do as you see fit, but I would probably see to the security and status of my family ASAP, tell the cops that you were afraid for your life and the lives of your family, and tell them that you are too shaken to make a coherent statement right away. As soon as possible, get a lawyer and let him do your talking. I know lawyering up looks bad, but it beats the alternative of delivering a full statement still coming down off the adrenaline rush, and then having some shyster pick the police version of your statement concerning life or death decisions apart over a month long trial that could incarcerate or bankrupt you.
I agree that most burglaries happen during daylight hours while the homeowners are at work. Home invaders probably prefer the night, since they may be after you, as well as your stuff.
As a warning, unless you are trained, DO NOT attempt to go on the offense after the intruder. Barricade yourself in a covered or at least concealed position, and prepare to defend yourself.
If you ever come home, and find your door ajar, DO NOT CLEAR THE HOUSE YOURSELF! Call the cops and consider parking a short distance away, where you can observe your home till they arrive. Once they do, tell them what is going on and wait for them to clear it and give you the opportunity to enter and inventory. Frankly, after they have cleared it, you may want to have them follow you while you do your own inspection. If anything has been tampered with, be very cautious, they may have missed the intruder and he may still be in the house.
I hope this thread helps people prepare and do at least a little planning. Most of us will never have to execute the plan. I hope that anyone who does comes out of it on top. Best of luck.
TR
HowardCohodas
02-04-2010, 19:24
HC, you need to slow down and read before commenting for a while. Ready, aim, fire.
Your house, your rules. I shall endeavor to obey.
I hope those who have PMed me with both support and concern continue to do so.
Defender968
02-04-2010, 19:36
As mentioned, I really do not know anything about this and am only stating what I would do given my limited understanding of the situation. I am learning from what is being posted and will change my plan. Thanks for the 'simulation' idea and while she may think I am nuts, I will do it.
Right so the glass breaks . . .
Assuming it is from ground level (I live in a two story house and would find it difficult for someone to break in on the second floor - not that it couldn't), I would turn on the lights and call 911. I would grab my gun (which will now not be locked. Question on this though. Although it is law to have any firearms safely secured - one which I agree with TR that does not work well if I need it ASAP. - and while I do not have any children (yet) leaving an unlocked loaded firearm in the corner of a room does not sit well with me. It just seems like an accident waiting to happen and is far more likely to accidently hurt/kill a 'good guy' rather than a 'bad guy'. Are there any other suggeestion to this or do I simply need to deal with it?
Jayson it's good you're thinking about this, but let me offer a few thoughts; first yes a loaded gun is a hazard of sorts to some people, children being my primary concern. If there are no children living in the house then there is not a huge threat, and it is mitigated by having all adults in the house being shown how to fire and clear the weapon. If you are uncomfortable keeping the weapon fully loaded I would recommend having a snap cap (dummy round) in the chamber and keeping the weapon on safe. That way it is no more dangerous than a bullet laying on the dresser, however it can be made ready very quickly, rack the slide, snap cap is ejected and you're hot and ready to go. This also serves as your warning, yelling IMO is unnecessary, if the person in the house has ill intent they are going to do one of two things, retreat or keep coming, either way you yelling will have no more effect on their decision making process than the racking of a slide, however as others have said they may be able to better determine your location or they hear nervousness in your voice, neither of which is good for you tactically, but this is also situational, in my house there would be no reason for any other human to be inside other than my wife after I've locked up, I have a nieghbor with a key but they know I am armed and well trained and know better than to enter without my permission. If you have family or are concerned that the threat may be the police then a ghost call out may be in order, but IMO that would be best reserved for someone with a little more training and a command voice, but it is a personal decision IMO. Me personally I'm going to rack the slide and that's your warning, the next thing you'll hear is a bang. Understand the racking of a shotgun slide is the 2nd most recognizable sound on earth, second only to a Harley :p, and it is a universal sound that means go away. Any friendlys in the area are going to sing out their name and status at hearing the slide being racked, and they are likely to stop moving until they make contact with you, but your situation may be different if you have family in the area or multiple neighbors with access to your house.
Back to the break in . . . with the call made, I would approach my stairs and yell down that I know someone is there and that the police have been called. I would also inform the intruder(s) that I am armed and would procede to cock my shotgun. Hopefully this would scare away the intruder. Should it not work, given the layout of my stairs, if the intruder was to try to walk up them, I could fire a warning in safety and retreat back to my room if the intruder continued.
Ok lots of issues here, if racking the slide didn't scare away the intruder your voice is probably not going to have any effect, they are INTENT on doing you and yours harm and must be dealt with. I would highly discourage warning shots, if you rack the slide and they keep coming a warning shot is simply a wasted round and wasted time, both of which may result in you or your families demise. Another issue, the stairs are a choke point in most cases, if you have only one way up and down that is the best place to make your stand should it come to that, the bad guy has no cover and you hold the high ground while he is in a fatal funnel. If I'm at home and have racked the slide and a bad guy keeps coming, I'm going to end him at the stairs, retreating at this point is simply giving up an advantage for a little meaningless time, if they keep coming up the stairs you need to be ready to keep them from making it to the top.
From here I would again lie down perpendicuar to the door with her beside me. The baseball bat would be a great idea and I will look into getting one although I do have a hockey stick, heh-heh. Hopefully the police would arrive at this time.
Hope is not a strategy, you have two choices in this scenario IMO, fight or hide and I equate hiding with dying, if you want to block the bedroom door then get a door club, but don't surrender yourself to act as a final door stop, I'd rather go down fighting than to hope the bad guy is a moron.
I really do not know what I would do for my next step. Using the bat/hockey stick sounds good, but if the intruder is armed with a firearm, it mite not be the best idea. Of course the shotgun could be used, but I have no faith in Canadian law and I would probably go to prison unless I could solidly argue that the intruder was an immediate threat to my gf and I. I really hope it never comes to this.
jaYson
Jayson you sound as if you are only willing to use the shotgun as a warning instrument, I would advise you that if you are unwilling to use it to take a life then you may want to reconsider getting one.
Also when I was a police officer there was a saying many of us used to live by, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Canadian law may suck, and it may not side with you, however if you don't do anything in this scenario you may be dead right along with your loved ones, personally I'd rather neutralize the threat, ensure my family is safe, and deal with the consequences whatever they may be afterwards.
Just a few thoughts
Loaded weapons?
You can keep the keys in the truck as long as you leave the Western Diamond-Back rattle snake living under the seat alone. I caught him sunning one warm Oct day, fed him occasionlly, Nov. - March.
Come April, he was nowhere is sight.
mark46th
02-04-2010, 19:58
Just my wife and I. She doesn't handle firearms so...
Solid doors and windows
Alarm system on doors and selected windows w/ Motion Detectors
A knife under the cushions of sofa and chairs where possible
.357 Ruger Security Six in the bedroom w/ 12 extra rounds.
12 Gauge pump w/ OO Buck Shot
Several fixed blade knives
Oak bo for non-lethal use
Various flashlights
Cell phone on the nightstand
2 hyper West Highland Terriers that can hear me open a bag of jerky in the front of the house while in a sound sleep at the back of the house....
I was just talking to my wife yesterday about getting her a POW for home defense for when I'm away. Shot gun seems to be the best choice. Less chance of rounds going through walls. Easier for the spouse to employ. My signs that say NO TRESPASSING YOU WILL BE SHOT!!! would hopefully be a good deterrent,, for would be invaders. There is also the alarm system with 2 way voice so the alarm company can come over the speaker and hear if all is well, as well as talk to us to ask if we are ok. Police response time is about 20 min so we are pretty much on our own.
I also heard that NC is a castle state but from what I read that can mean several things anyone have any insight???
Shar, how old is your oldest child? Could he/she be put in charge of collecting the others and hiding or slipping out of the house to the neighbors?
Might be able to... my kids are all between 5 and 8, so nothing is fool-proof. They are really good hiders though - hide and seek is played obsessively around here. The window of the room I'd have them hunker down in does face the hyper-vigilant lady across the street and if they made enough noise, she'd hear them.
What sits best with me is getting the 3rd cell phone we've been talking about getting and having it in the oldest's room at night. They could hide, hunker down and call 911. The police station is less than a mile away from us, so response time would be minutes. I'm thinking that we should also establish a code word with them so if we come in frantic at night all I need to do is pull them out of bed and say one word and they'll do what they need to do to hide. What do you think?
Are the "Beware of dog" signs people put up worth it? I'm positive she'd make quite a ruckus if someone tried to get in at night, but she's a Dane and might lick them to death when she greeted them.
On a slightly different note, for anyone with small children -
Over the past few years I've gone to the fire department with all of my kids for various school tours. The firemen always get all their gear on (masks, etc) and show the kids what they look like all dressed up. Without fail a couple kids always get really scared of the outfitted fireman. They then proceed to have the kids crawl all over them and get used to the outfit. They let them try on the masks, etc. They've told us parents that there have been times where they'll go in full gear to get a kid out of a bad situation and the kid will run away or become difficult because they are "scary." It's a good idea to have your kid see a fully outfitted fireman before they come face to face with one in a fire.
Might be able to... my kids are all between 5 and 8, so nothing is fool-proof. They are really good hiders though - hide and seek is played obsessively around here. The window of the room I'd have them hunker down in does face the hyper-vigilant lady across the street and if they made enough noise, she'd hear them.
What sits best with me is getting the 3rd cell phone we've been talking about getting and having it in the oldest's room at night. They could hide, hunker down and call 911. The police station is less than a mile away from us, so response time would be minutes. I'm thinking that we should also establish a code word with them so if we come in frantic at night all I need to do is pull them out of bed and say one word and they'll do what they need to do to hide. What do you think?
Are the "Beware of dog" signs people put up worth it? I'm positive she'd make quite a ruckus if someone tried to get in at night, but she's a Dane and might lick them to death when she greeted them.
On a slightly different note, for anyone with small children -
Over the past few years I've gone to the fire department with all of my kids for various school tours. The firemen always get all their gear on (masks, etc) and show the kids what they look like all dressed up. Without fail a couple kids always get really scared of the outfitted fireman. They then proceed to have the kids crawl all over them and get used to the outfit. They let them try on the masks, etc. They've told us parents that there have been times where they'll go in full gear to get a kid out of a bad situation and the kid will run away or become difficult because they are "scary." It's a good idea to have your kid see a fully outfitted fireman before they come face to face with one in a fire.
What's the most likely avenue of approach from an intruder, front door, bedroom window, garage?
Start training the new pup. Call a friend on the phone, have him/her to rattle door or scratch the window, and reward a bark or growl with a praise. Slowly at first then get more intense later. Never give up your friend during the training, it will spoil the event. Use different friends as time allows.
My Wirehair is very loving to strangers, never barks, unless someone is walking up the walkway, at the door or window. When pup is older (10 months), he sleeps with the kids, sorry mom, your're on your own.
I also heard that NC is a castle state but from what I read that can mean several things anyone have any insight???
Cobra,
I'm not trying to be a wise-ass, but you should read the NC castle law from a reputable source (county licensing board or State Police site). The castle law varies a lot from state to state, and a layman's opinion is worth what you pay for it.
On a slightly different note, for anyone with small children -
Over the past few years I've gone to the fire department with all of my kids for various school tours.
Memory trigger here, taking this thread slightly sideways for one small note......
There are excellent fire ladders (rope-style ladders) that can be kept in upper stories for escape. I'm a bit uncertain about how I would feel about kids going out their own windows in the event of intruders YMMV.
However, when I was a kid we had a total of 3 house fires, the last one was total. So, I use this opportunity to advertise something that gave me a lot of emotional comfort when my kids were young and at home. I had never known of their existence until taking some Tiger Cubs to a local fire station.
$34 on Amazon, and the kids love training on them.
Paranoia can be good for you :rolleyes:
Defender968
02-05-2010, 12:54
NO TRESPASSING YOU WILL BE SHOT!!! would hopefully be a good deterrent
I also heard that NC is a castle state but from what I read that can mean several things anyone have any insight???
Cobra, I understand the feeling about the sign... it makes you feel good, but remember it also advertises that you have a gun in the house, which may attract intruders when you're not at home looking for your weapon.
My neighbors know I'm well armed and well trained but anyone else walking by I want to think it's just another house maybe there's a gun, maybe there's not. Especially at Bragg where the criminals do sometimes recon their targets I wouldn't want to advertise I have a gun in the house.
If a would be burglar should make the poor life decision to come into my house when I'm around the only warning they will get will be the racking of the slide, if they get that.... With that being said I'm an X-LEO, so I know the laws in my AO and I know exactly how to articulate the why's for any and all of my actions.
A sign like that, coupled with a military style weapon i.e. AR and a little bad media exposure could put you in a very bad way depending on the prosecutor in your AO, it could also work against you in a civil or possibly even criminal trial again depending on the prosecutor/solicitor in that AO, I would think in Fayetteville you’d be alright but I don’t know that for a fact.
Just a few things to consider.
NO TRESPASSING,
VIOLATORS WILL BE SHOT,
SURVIVORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN.
Thank you all for the good gouge in this thread, it really does give some good ideas considering we have been a target for some reason over the past couple of years.
FWIW, the following picture shows what happened to our garage door after the third attempt within a years time:
14424
We weren’t home but we think our dog kept them from entering, fortunately nothing was stolen thanks to Sampson
14425
My whole family now knows how to handle firearms (not like you professionals) due to the craziness that has occurred within our area.
Keep the ideas coming, awesome thread !
One thing I run into from time to time is that people have deadbolts that require key from both the interior and exterior. That seems like a hazard to me.
If you use a security system ADT, Brinks, etc. what is wired? Are there other less obvious means of exterior access that aren't wired like dormer vents, roof vents, crawl space access? How do you know it actually works?
A local tool supplier had a high dollar system with motion sensors. It was tested time and time again. Yet they were cleaned out 3 times in one month using the same access point, the glass next to the front door.
And the system failed 3 times.
One thing I run into from time to time is that people have deadbolts that require key from both the interior and exterior. That seems like a hazard to me.
Usually these are doors with, or near, windows. It keeps the BGs form breaking the window and reaching in to unlock the door.
Pat
HC, you need to slow down and read before commenting for a while. Ready, aim, fire.
His Disciple, while I agree that firing a warning shot is a bad idea, I have quite a few issues with the rest of your commentary. Unless you have some special military or LE training that is missing from your profile, you should probably save your advice for areas where you do have some expertise.
Plato, I like the way you are thinking.
LRSU, b22b, inceptor, good prep. All I can say about higher floors with limited exit options is to make sure that the window can be opened and consider planting something soft below.
Shar, how old is your oldest child? Could he/she be put in charge of collecting the others and hiding or slipping out of the house to the neighbors? We live in a house with a split plan, and our kids are in the opposite end of the house. Our oldest is responsible for gathering the youngest and getting to safety. You could keep an air horn in the bedroom for fires and intruders, just make sure everyone knows what they are supposed to do and has rehearsed it.
Again, dogs are great, especially if at least one is kept indoors.
911 calls can be as short as necessary. The lines are all recorded now, and in most areas, the location shows up when the call is received. You couldf literally dial the number and drop the phone while yelling at the intruder. I do not need the moral support of the dispatcher (who seem to vary widely in quality these days), and the recording may be used in your hearing/trial, so all I have to say is "This is Mr. X., at YZ Maple Street. There is an intruder in my home, I am afraid that he might be armed. I have a gun and am prepared to defend my family. I am afraid for their safety. Please hurry." It does not matter if the intruder hears this or not, though your legal position is better iof he does. Then drop the phone or hand it to the spouse. I do not plan to get into a gunfight while yakking on a phone.
Great point about the legal aftermath. If you do not currently get American Handgunner, get a copy and read Massad Ayoob's column. He is usually testifying in some citizen's trial as an expert and you would not believe how often people are charged or sued. $10,000 in legal fees for a righteous shooting is probably a starting point.
You might be surprised at how effective properly placed nightlights can be for tactical illum. You know the layout and their location. The intruder probably does not. That is enough to manuever, should you need to, until you have the need to engage. Then once you have determined the number and location of intruders, and are ready to engage, a powerful hand held or weapons light can be applied for final ID prior to one final voice command and engaging. If the intruder is armed and failes to respond to the voice command, or appears to be unarmed but acts aggressively, then it is time to engage.
Do not forget that a car of excited cops are about to show up at a crime scene where they know at least one person is armed. Never point the weapon at the responding officers, try to put it in a safe place as they arrive, and obey all instructions they issue to the letter. Hopefully, you have ID handy and can quickly establish that you are the homeowner.
You do as you see fit, but I would probably see to the security and status of my family ASAP, tell the cops that you were afraid for your life and the lives of your family, and tell them that you are too shaken to make a coherent statement right away. As soon as possible, get a lawyer and let him do your talking. I know lawyering up looks bad, but it beats the alternative of delivering a full statement still coming down off the adrenaline rush, and then having some shyster pick the police version of your statement concerning life or death decisions apart over a month long trial that could incarcerate or bankrupt you.
I agree that most burglaries happen during daylight hours while the homeowners are at work. Home invaders probably prefer the night, since they may be after you, as well as your stuff.
As a warning, unless you are trained, DO NOT attempt to go on the offense after the intruder. Barricade yourself in a covered or at least concealed position, and prepare to defend yourself.
If you ever come home, and find your door ajar, DO NOT CLEAR THE HOUSE YOURSELF! Call the cops and consider parking a short distance away, where you can observe your home till they arrive. Once they do, tell them what is going on and wait for them to clear it and give you the opportunity to enter and inventory. Frankly, after they have cleared it, you may want to have them follow you while you do your own inspection. If anything has been tampered with, be very cautious, they may have missed the intruder and he may still be in the house.
I hope this thread helps people prepare and do at least a little planning. Most of us will never have to execute the plan. I hope that anyone who does comes out of it on top. Best of luck.
TR
TR...excellent summary of what to do and what not to do. Not clearing the house on your own is critical for evidence purposes as well as safety. Additionally if you are fortunate enough to have a K9 available in your municipality, at the time of the burglary, a dog can track fairly effectively from the entry and exit points which are often times the same. Also agree with "lawyering" up. If you shoot another person in your home you just committed homicide (justified or not) and there will be an intensive investigation...especially if you live in a relatively low crime area. Being without a lawyer while caught up in the legal system is along the same lines as jumping the fence at the zoo to pet the pretty lions.
Usually these are doors with, or near, windows. It keeps the BGs form breaking the window and reaching in to unlock the door.
Pat
True. But do you want to be juggling with keys in an emergency? When someone takes 60 to 120 seconds to let me in their house on a normal day, I wonder how long would it take them to unlock the door in a critical situation.
And generally speaking a pine door jamb/deadbolt combo will generally fail with little effort and/or can be manipulated to gain access.
True. But do you want to be juggling with keys in an emergency? When someone takes 60 to 120 seconds to let me in their house on a normal day, I wonder how long would it take them to unlock the door in a critical situation.
If it takes them that long, they're doing something wrong. We have one. The key is near the door and reaching for it is like reaching for a light switch. I put my index finger on the cut side, which is up, and my finger tip on the slot. Then I just slide it in. It probably takes about 5 seconds.
Pat
The Reaper
02-05-2010, 19:04
Thank you all for the good gouge in this thread, it really does give some good ideas considering we have been a target for some reason over the past couple of years.
FWIW, the following picture shows what happened to our garage door after the third attempt within a years time:
14424
We weren’t home but we think our dog kept them from entering, fortunately nothing was stolen thanks to Sampson
14425
My whole family now knows how to handle firearms (not like you professionals) due to the craziness that has occurred within our area.
Keep the ideas coming, awesome thread !
You need a double-cylinder deadbolt in that door, if not a solid door, and longer screws as well. If you go to a solid door, a single-cylinder deadbolt lock will be fine.
An hour or two putting some 3" deck screws in the door hardware. Strike boxes and kick plates (around $10-20 each) would be even better and can save you a lot of money. Most houses only have a few doors to work on.
Ground level windows should be immobilized.
Sliding glass doors, if you have them, need to be properly blocked.
Most LE agencies have a physical security officer who will show you how to properly protect your home.
Anything can be breached with enough gear and time. The longer it takes and harder it is, the more likely they will skip it and hit a softer target. And that is good enough.
TR
One thing I run into from time to time is that people have deadbolts that require key from both the interior and exterior. That seems like a hazard to me.
If you use a security system ADT, Brinks, etc. what is wired? Are there other less obvious means of exterior access that aren't wired like dormer vents, roof vents, crawl space access? How do you know it actually works?
A local tool supplier had a high dollar system with motion sensors. It was tested time and time again. Yet they were cleaned out 3 times in one month using the same access point, the glass next to the front door.
And the system failed 3 times.
I've heard from those who had the double lock deadbolts that they prevent the intruder who crawls through a window from getting out with their "stuff". They're also really good for keeping you inside during a fire. :( Testosterone is good, but only in proper amounts.
On the alarm systems, you can check Sears, Radio Shack, etc., for systems that are really simple and inexpensive. "High dollar" just means someone paid too much. ;)
If you are at all DIY, then you can install a really good system for under $200 dollars.
Unless you are very isolated or live in an area where nobody cares what happens in the neighborhood, I see no sense to the systems that notify a commercial service who will send the PD by in 10 or 15 minutes.
A loud visible system that draws all eyes to the house will cause most to leave.
My "smile, you're on video" signs, front and back are probably a major deterrent as well. ;)
If it takes them that long, they're doing something wrong.
Pat
I am not joking, I see it all the time. The key is somewhere on a ring of keys or they can't find the key...it was just here....Oh I'll be right back. And where it was supposed to have been was in plain sight in arms reach of a window.
And if it is a half glass or full glass door it wouldn't take much to break the glass and climb or walk in. So I don't see the point.
The most glass I'd have in an entry door would be a view at the top. I'd stay away from pine finger joint jamb material and go with a solid wood harder than pine. On the exterior I would put the brick molding on with screws with a finish torq head or Roberts headed screw. If I had real concern I put in a metal jamb or reinforce the wood jamb with some angle iron. Replace those stock hinge screws with something a bit longer and replace the shims with something a bit more substantial like wood blocks.
Many of the 'New Construction' I have replaced have little to no shims and they are held in place with 18ga. finish nails inside and out. Pull off the trim and they just about fall out.
Generally speaking you have about an inch of play between the rough opening and the jamb...makes easy work for a Wonderbar if it the door is lacking in the shim dept.
I've heard from those who had the double lock deadbolts that they prevent the intruder who crawls through a window from getting out with their "stuff". They're also really good for keeping you inside during a fire. :( Testosterone is good, but only in proper amounts.
On the alarm systems, you can check Sears, Radio Shack, etc., for systems that are really simple and inexpensive. "High dollar" just means someone paid too much. ;)
If you are at all DIY, then you can install a really good system for under $200 dollars.
Unless you are very isolated or live in an area where nobody cares what happens in the neighborhood, I see no sense to the systems that notify a commercial service who will send the PD by in 10 or 15 minutes.
A loud visible system that draws all eyes to the house will cause most to leave.
My "smile, you're on video" signs, front and back are probably a major deterrent as well. ;)
Fire or what ever the situation ease of exit is what I was getting at.
Regarding the alarms, every customer I have that has one, the sensors are only on the doors and windows, and there are other points of entry that are not 'secured'. I think residential security systems are a deterrent, but 'Mike at Brinks' breeds a false sense of security for many I know. A dog would have been a better investment IMO.
A good percentage of burglaries in my area happen without breaking anything...they use key codes they obtained somewhere and they drive around with garage door openers to see which doors will open.
One family I know, had there entire house cleaned out, all 4000 to 5000 sq ft gone while they were on vacation! There was no forced entry. All their neighbors noticed was some big trucks in the drive and they thought the house was being worked on.
JMO.....If someone wants in your house they will get in. The best you can do is make it as difficult as possible without putting yourself at risk.
HowardCohodas
02-05-2010, 20:24
JMO.....If someone wants in your house they will get in. The best you can do is make it as difficult as possible without putting yourself at risk.
Exactly. I'm of the opinion regarding alarms and signs are to make your home less desirable relative to your neighbors home rather than make it burglar proof.
In many of my self-defense strategies I use the following as an analogy. Kind of cynical, but when my life is at stake, well ...
During a camping trip, Sam and Tom saw a bear coming their way. Sam started to take off his backpack and told Tom he was going to run for it. When his surprised friend said, "You can't outrun a bear," Sam replied, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you."
That seems like a hazard to me.
I was addressing this comment. If the people who act as you state can't find their keys, and there is no large window near the door, then that's their problem. I'm guessing that you would not be so stupid.
As for escaping a fire, assuming I couldn't find or use the key I've been using for 24 years, the picture window next to the door is history.
Don't judge your abilities by others inabilities.
Pat
I was addressing this comment. If the people who act as you state can't find their keys, and there is no large window near the door, then that's their problem. I'm guessing that you would not be so stupid.
As for escaping a fire, assuming I couldn't find or use the key I've been using for 24 years, the picture window next to the door is history.
Don't judge your abilities by others inabilities.
Pat
It wasn't intended to be a judgment, it was my opinion and it's up for discussion.
Regardless, adjacent window or not I wouldn't have a double keyed dead bolt. If someone in the house were disoriented, injured or unable to see, a regular dead bolt might make a difference and it is a option I would have.
Kind of like riding down a hill on a bicycle and your heading for a curb. You can turn Left, Right or put on the brakes. This is obvious to you, but others panic and head straight to the curb.....and sometimes even the best of us find ourselves in a situation where it just doesn't go according to plan.
It wasn't intended to be a judgment, it was my opinion and it's up for discussion.
Regardless, adjacent window or not I wouldn't have a double keyed dead bolt. If someone in the house were disoriented, injured or unable to see, a regular dead bolt might make a difference and it is a option I would have.
Kind of like riding down a hill on a bicycle and your heading for a curb. You can turn Left, Right or put on the brakes. This is obvious to you, but others panic and head straight to the curb.....and sometimes even the best of us find ourselves in a situation where it just doesn't go according to plan.
Fine. Don't get one. This badminton match is over. The folks on this site are not prone to panic.
Pat
Plutarch
02-05-2010, 22:04
We've had a rash of home invasions lately.
http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/crime/article/authorities_4_home_invasions_could_be_connected/29740/
I live alone in a town home. I have the front and back doors barricaded, and keep a handgun and a shotgun with me as I travel from room to room. My weak point is the rear windows. They were originally double sliding windows. I had the outer windows replaced with storm windows that do not open, and I blocked the inner windows with a cut piece of 2x4.
I then placed an iron bakers rack with potted plants in front of the window, and secured it to the structure with steel cables. With the patio table and umbrella in front of it, it doesn't stand out.
This badminton match is over.
Sounds like a plan.
The folks on this site are not prone to panic.
We do agree on somethings.
Fire or what ever the situation ease of exit is what I was getting at.
Exactly, again, I'm in the BTDT category here. As a 12 yr old, my assessment of the situation was "Oh Shit! Run!" No need for complications.
Regarding the alarms, every customer I have that has one, the sensors are only on the doors and windows, and there are other points of entry that are not 'secured'. I think residential security systems are a deterrent, but 'Mike at Brinks' breeds a false sense of security for many I know. A dog would have been a better investment IMO. I've seen dogs handled successfully by the more prepared burglar, using mace. Seems that I saw "better burglars" on cases involving small business owners who are *reputed* to ease some cash out of the business and keep it at home for "tax purposes". :rolleyes:
A good percentage of burglaries in my area happen without breaking anything...they use key codes they obtained somewhere and they drive around with garage door openers to see which doors will open.I came home once to find a screen window pried away from the house. At that point part of the alarm attached to the window itself was visible. End result, one bent screen window, nothing more. :) The systems armed/disarmed by a programmable key fob are sweet, and again, if the unit is in the closet, there is little chance that anyone else would pick up the code.
One family I know, had there entire house cleaned out, all 4000 to 5000 sq ft gone while they were on vacation! There was no forced entry. All their neighbors noticed was some big trucks in the drive and they thought the house was being worked on. A good neighbor is priceless. After I moved from Missouri, some fellows came to my old farm to "repair my storm windows". My sole neighbor (former marine), happened to be walking down my driveway to go bird hunting :cool: and found that they didn't know my name. He and Mr. Remington waited until the Sheriff arrived.
JMO.....If someone wants in your house they will get in. The best you can do is make it as difficult as possible without putting yourself at risk. Amen, deter the casual thief and pray that you aren't a prime target for someone who is more resolved.
Doing a little data look-up on this subject, I read that most residential burglaries occur between 7-10 a.m. (if my data is correct), but also around 5-6 pm when burglars choose to follow a target home. That leaves me less satisfied than I thought I was with a gun by her bedside when I'm gone. So, I'm gonna finance milady's CPL. I've taken her from "no guns" thru the .22 and soda cans, to the .38 and full milk-jugs until she wants her own. When I asked what kind she would like to have she informed me that she wants "one of the shiny ones". OK, I still have some work to do :D
armymom1228
02-06-2010, 00:12
. When I asked what kind she would like to have she informed me that she wants "one of the shiny ones". OK, I still have some work to do :D
You might show her the shiny one. (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=82452&tabselected=tech&parent_category_rn=)
Back in '90 in San Diego a burglar ring was busted. Their MO was to canvas the neighborhood going door-tpo-door asking people to update their canine registry..."Do you folks still have a dog? Just need to update our registry."...that sort of thing. The cops found a map with all the dogs in the neighborhood highlighted. Throu military housing and civilian housing...didn't matter. The houses with dogs weren't hit. Burglars look for the path of least resistence. It's a shoppers market for them, and unless they know you have exactly what they want they're more liable to pick the soft targets.
The home invasion scenario is more problematic. A dog can/may delay an intruder long enough for you to get to the gun. My plan if it came to that would be to come out shooting, castle law bedamned. Let 'em prove I wasn't scared for my life. (If I have time I'll put on a dress and a wig and grab a butcher knife and start yelling, "Oh. mother! What have you done!? Oh, the blood...all the blood", then run out and greet them when the dog's done. :))
HowardCohodas
02-06-2010, 08:27
For me, the indoor dog I had was more valuable as an alarm than a deterrent. Unfortunately, we have not replaced him because of my wife's exacerbated allergic reaction.
Exactly, again, I'm in the BTDT category here. As a 12 yr old, my assessment of the situation was "Oh Shit! Run!" No need for complications.
I've seen dogs handled successfully by the more prepared burglar, using mace. Seems that I saw "better burglars" on cases involving small business owners who are *reputed* to ease some cash out of the business and keep it at home for "tax purposes". :rolleyes:
I came home once to find a screen window pried away from the house. At that point part of the alarm attached to the window itself was visible. End result, one bent screen window, nothing more. :) The systems armed/disarmed by a programmable key fob are sweet, and again, if the unit is in the closet, there is little chance that anyone else would pick up the code.
A good neighbor is priceless. After I moved from Missouri, some fellows came to my old farm to "repair my storm windows". My sole neighbor (former marine), happened to be walking down my driveway to go bird hunting :cool: and found that they didn't know my name. He and Mr. Remington waited until the Sheriff arrived.
Amen, deter the casual thief and pray that you aren't a prime target for someone who is more resolved.
Doing a little data look-up on this subject, I read that most residential burglaries occur between 7-10 a.m. (if my data is correct), but also around 5-6 pm when burglars choose to follow a target home. That leaves me less satisfied than I thought I was with a gun by her bedside when I'm gone. So, I'm gonna finance milady's CPL. I've taken her from "no guns" thru the .22 and soda cans, to the .38 and full milk-jugs until she wants her own. When I asked what kind she would like to have she informed me that she wants "one of the shiny ones". OK, I still have some work to do :D
Those are just some things I had running through my mind, and some first thoughts....not advice. Anyway YMMV as to right, wrong, good or bad.
Back to the topic...
My first inclination on a plan was escape with the kids. But TR gave me a scenario that change my thinking on that. I want my dog to be my trusted alarm system so I am going to try Wet Dog ideas, if that doesn't work I need to get another. When I replace the back door I'll reinforce it as I described. The kids are taking martial arts.
My plan, it is a work in progress.
........ Unfortunately, we have not replaced him because of my wife's exacerbated allergic reaction.
You need one of those hypoalergenic (?) dogs. Poodle looking thing - small to. Ran into one the other day. Wanted to rip my leg off but couldn't get through my bluejeans. Lotta' heart but no ass - but made one heck of a lot of noise. We came to an understanding after a couple of minutes and then he was my friend.
armymom1228
02-06-2010, 17:46
You need one of those hypoalergenic (?) dogs. Poodle looking thing - small to. Ran into one the other day. Wanted to rip my leg off but couldn't get through my bluejeans. Lotta' heart but no ass - but made one heck of a lot of noise. We came to an understanding after a couple of minutes and then he was my friend.
Labradoodle? or something like that half poodle and labrador?
HowardCohodas
02-06-2010, 21:19
You need one of those hypoalergenic (?) dogs. Poodle looking thing - small to. Ran into one the other day. Wanted to rip my leg off but couldn't get through my bluejeans. Lotta' heart but no ass - but made one heck of a lot of noise. We came to an understanding after a couple of minutes and then he was my friend.
The dog we had, a Tibetan Terrier, was chosen for its hypoallergenic characteristics. Unfortunately allergy sensitivity is a moving target and my wife became more reactive as time went on.
It's my belief that many people get treated by allergists until their sensitivities change and then credit the doctor wrongly. I have doctors in the family, and they do not resist this belief with much vigor.
HowardCohodas
02-07-2010, 02:51
HC, you need to slow down and read before commenting for a while. Ready, aim, fire.
OK TR, How's This?
I think somewhere on this forum, and I can't find it now, someone recommended the book "Strong on Defense" by Sanford Strong. I used bookfinder.com and paid only a small premium over original price and have been reading parts during breaks from other areas of this forum. :D
To the point... There is a very good section that I believe to be directly on-point to this thread titled "Families Under Attack." I thought about OCRing (Optical Character Recognition) this section and posting it here but I am generally careful about using even snippets of copyrighted material in a forum. I was in the process of contacting the author and publisher when I came across something they have already done to make this information available.
Go to Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Defense-Sanford/dp/0671535110) and use the "Look Inside" feature. Search for the phrase "mortal fear." This should take you to Part V, Families Under Attack on page 163.
The Reaper
02-07-2010, 10:03
OK TR, How's This?
I think somewhere on this forum, and I can't find it now, someone recommended the book "Strong on Defense" by Sanford Strong. I used bookfinder.com and paid only a small premium over original price and have been reading parts during breaks from other areas of this forum. :D
To the point... There is a very good section that I believe to be directly on-point to this thread titled "Families Under Attack." I thought about OCRing (Optical Character Recognition) this section and posting it here but I am generally careful about using even snippets of copyrighted material in a forum. I was in the process of contacting the author and publisher when I came across something they have already done to make this information available.
Go to Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Defense-Sanford/dp/0671535110) and use the "Look Inside" feature. Search for the phrase "mortal fear." This should take you to Part V, Families Under Attack on page 163.
I believe that you may be on the road to redemption.
Remain focused.:D
TR
Fascinating thread - clearly, I have some study and reflection to do.
I have an OK alarm - monitored, using both a hardwired telephone line and a cell-phone backup. Solid core doors, with deadbolts. The back door, unfortunately, has a window - but the deadbolt there is a double cylinder.
Clothing - I like TR's idea. I need to incorporate that in my routine.
Firearms - I keep a .40 semi-auto by the bed. Loaded, round in chamber, safety on, DA/SA. No lasers or weapon lights, since I don't want to advertise my location.
I don't have a flashlight there - I need to fix that. On the positive side, I annoyed the Nuclear Regulatory Commission until I found a delightful little loophole. It seems one can possess tritium exit markers. They make excellent night-lights. Of course, their intended and primary use is as an exit marker.
Nonlethal weapons - I suspect there's a good chance they would take such things away from me and use them on me. Whatever their merits, I doubt those would work for me.
AO - Texas has some very good castle doctrine laws. For that, I am thankful.
I have experienced one attempt at a home invasion, something like 5 years ago. When I heard the pry-bar start breaking the wood, I used uncivil language. The fellow left without opening the door. It was late afternoon - 6 PM or so, during the summer months, apparently a single individual. I had a firearm at the time, in case the language had not worked. So, at least for me, and with the individual not in the house, a warning seems to have led to an uncomplicated ending.
I have heard - but certainly do not know - that a shotgun with #10 shot is effective. Supposedly, the small shot is not lethal after it penetrates two layers of wallboard. Again, I do not know if this is true, but it may have interesting implications for those with other residents in the house.
I noticed one post that mentioned weapons beyond the usual handguns and shotguns. Purely hypothetically, let us suppose that a homeowner owned - entirely lawfully - something such as an MP5-SD. And, suppose they used it in accordance with the lawful use of deadly force in a home invasion scenario. I wonder how law enforcement officers and the legal system generally would react. Negatively, I suppose.
HowardCohodas
02-07-2010, 17:13
Go to Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Defense-Sanford/dp/0671535110) and use the "Look Inside" feature. Search for the phrase "mortal fear." This should take you to Part V, Families Under Attack on page 163.
Some of Sgt. Strong's material available on his website (http://sgtstrong.com/home.html).
You might show her the shiny one. (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=82452&tabselected=tech&parent_category_rn=)
I should have asked for a recommendation from one of the ladies here to start with.
"Oooooh! I love it". said my fair lady.
Wonder if she has to have matching pumps> :D
Then there are the Pink Pistols - Warning, not what you think.
http://www.pinkpistols.org/index2.html
Ah, I salute their 2nd Am rights and goals but think their reason may lead to flashing.
Then there are the Pink Pistols - Warning, not what you think.
http://www.pinkpistols.org/index2.html
Ah, I salute their 2nd Am rights and goals but think their reason may lead to flashing.
1. Casts a whole different light on a threat to "blow you away".
2. I'll loan her my Visa, and wait in the car :rolleyes:
Two simple recommendations for middle of the night visits :):
1. Get a remote control outlet plug for a few lights that will create a fatal funnel for the visitors as they come down the hallway. You keep the remote there next to the Taurus Judge. Putting light behind them will help get good left and right limits after you just woke up.
2. Never bound forward from you LCC when a scared wife with a shotgun is going to be behind you. No matter how much range time she has.
Animal8526
02-08-2010, 05:07
RE: hypoallergenic dogs...
Breeds that are hair breeds, and not fur breeds, are typically high on the hypoallergenic scale. These breeds include poodles, schnauzers, portoguese (sp) water dogs and a few others.
Personally (speaking from experience), I highly reccomend Schnauzers. They come in three varieties... Mini (20ish lbs), standard (40ish lbs) and giant (90-100ish lbs). Mini shnauzers are great "lap" dogs, but extremely vocal, lending them to being a great early warning system. The giant schnauzers are fiercly loyal, extremely friendly and were originally bred to be prison dogs. They are a working breed, and sit near the top of the charts in dog intelligence.
Currently, my dogs play a role in home defense. They detect and deter, maybe delay, and the wife and I do the rest. We have a mini schnauzer who is easily woken, and a 3/4 poodle 1/4 golden retriever mix who is on track to be 90lbs of deterrent. That dog is a tank.
HowardCohodas
02-08-2010, 05:18
An unintended benefit to our "inside the home" dog was that when our children were teenagers, returning home after I was in bed was none-the-less properly acknowledged. Sort of crimped their attempts to get around curfew. :D
Inceptor
02-08-2010, 12:51
2. Never bound forward from you LCC when a scared wife with a shotgun is going to be behind you. No matter how much range time she has.
Noted!
After Pat and I's Deadbolt encounter, I kept thinking about it.
When I reinforce the back door, it's going to take far more than 3 kicks to bring it down. Even a 8lbs sledge is going to take some time. Hell they might even need to take a breather.
Then I looked at the windows on either side and it slapped me in the face! Why reinforce the door structure if you going to leave a bypass within arms reach from a window.
That said, I see Pat's point.
Drew
The Reaper
02-09-2010, 19:03
We have a lot of glass in our house, and I think the double throws are GTG, especially if you keep a key nearby at all times when people are home.
If they have to smash a window in a door to get in, that should inhibit their ability to get out easily while carrying my property.
The kids have all been instructed that in the event of a fire (with blocked exits) or armed intruder (after locking the door to their rooms), to throw a heavy object through the window, clear it quickly by breaking out remaining glass with a chair, lamp, etc., and throw a pillow over the windowsill and glass to crawl out over.
Walk down the street past your house in daylight and darkness. Does it look relatively easy to access without being seen? How does it compare to the neighbors? Your home needs to be tougher than the others. Make the potential intruder choose another home. Walk around the perimeter of your property, again in daytime and night conditions. How does it look? Good coverage by lights and cameras? Bad guys do not like to be seen. Any easy approaches with cover or concealment that you could use to approach the access points without being seen or exposing yourself for very long? Any piles of wood, shrubs, etc. to hide behind? Any ladders stored outside that would allow access to windows? Walk around the exterior walls of your home and study it intently. Any unsecured doors, windows, sliding doors (a favorite for easy access), access panels, basement or cellar doors or windows, etc.? Any smash and grab tools handy, like axes, bats, shovels, rakes, prybars, etc. to make access easier? Anywhere to hide in a darkened area and ambush you when you are coming or leaving your home? Look through every point of visual access to your house. How much of your wealth can be seen from outside your home? Flat panel TVs, laptops, cameras, jewelry, guns, power tools, anything easy to pawn would be a potential target. Enter every door of your home and look around. Try and think like the bad guys. Can you easily grab items and get away quickly? Can you get to the master, kids' or guest bedrooms quickly? How can you deter, detect, defeat, and delay a would be intruder?
Exterior doors would have no glass, or adjacent glass in a perfect world. All should be steel or fiberglass with deadbolts, strikeboxes, kickplates, and 3" screws throughout. Door jambs should be reinforced by doubling or tripling studs on both sides. All doors should be heavily shimmed and properly installed. Do not use pet doors. All blind entry doors should have peeps installed, and the entry area have good outside lighting. Replace blown bulbs promptly. Do not answer the door if you are home alone without thinking it through and having a plan. When I answer my door, day or night, I have a phone, a powerful flashlight, and a firearm on me, and I am not a small or weak looking guy.
Bedroom and bathroom doors should be solid core. Bedroom doors should have heavy duty locking hardware (privacy minimum, entry lockset better, if you can stand the strange looks) and 3" screws into doubled studs on either side of the doorframe (if you are building the house). Garage doors should lock or be drilled for a pin to prevent them from being jacked open in your absence. Turn off or pull the power cords to the openers when going on vacation.
Casement windows are much better and more secure than double hung. The higher off the ground they are, the better. If you have double hungs and are using window AC units, they need to be screwed into place, and understand that that is one of the easiest ways to get into the house. Pull the AC out, use it as a step to climb into the house, pick it up and throw it into the back of the truck on the way out with the rest of the loot.
Vegetation should provide little or no cover and preferably be of a variety that discourages contact, like prickly pear, holly, etc.
"Vicious Dog" signs might be a good idea as well, even if Fifi isn't. A few of the extra large water or food bowls and chew toys near the entrance might help.
Exterior lights should cover doors as a minimum, and preferably the entire perimeter of the home as well. If there is a corner, you probably need a light. I like motion detectors and automatic lighting, but my electrician discouraged me by presenting the false alarm issue. Ideally, as a minimum you should be able to turn all exterior floods on from the master bedroom, and the main entrance.
Alarms should have pin/contact/magnetic sensors on all doors, motion detectors, and glass breaks where necessary, and the smoke detector should be wired in as well. Install a keypad within easy access of the entrance (at least one, consider others for back door or garage access, etc., especially if they are far apart and get another for the master bedroom as a monitor or panic device). Get a monitoring service if you like. Get some alarm company signs regardless and display them prominently. Think about getting a good driveway annunciator. Consider a locking gate if you live in a rural area.
Security cameras should cover vehicular entry points (driveway) and exterior doors. Military guys should place them like you would crew-served weapons. Good low light or IR illuminated cameras are the way to go. Don't scrimp. You can set the system up to display the monitored cameras in a picture in picture on your TV screens throughout the house. You can also set them up so that you can log on to an IP view the cameras remotely on a computer.
Minimize unnecessary public access to your home. Watch workmen and maintenance personnel who visit your home. Consider taking a photo of them working, make sure that you get the license number of the vehicles they use. If they are on tape, burn a copy and save it, especially if they are transients or illegals. As already stated, many robberies are people who have visited a home for work. Do not let workers see valuables lying around your home. Put purses, laptops, meds, jewelry, etc. away and secure them before people arrive.
Limit the number of keys you have and give them only the people who really need them. Do not pass them to workers, or give them alarm codes, unless you are going to change them immediately afterwards.
Unused firearms, keepsakes, small heirlooms, cash, and jewelry should be stored in a "fireproof" safe which is bolted to the floor or wall.
If you leave home, you need to secure all of the entrances every time and set the alarm. If you are going to be out overnight, make sure that some interior lights are on, and the exterior entrances are well-lit. Valuables are returned to the safe. Do not let mail, packages, papers, etc. stack up, or the lawn look forgotten if it is going to be more than a few days. Get a neighbor to drop by daily and clear the mail, packages, papers, etc., and hold them for your return.
Some of this is expensive, most is just common sense. You don't have to do any, or all of this. Like the joke goes, you don't have to be perfect, you just have to be a little harder than your neighbors.
TR
Excellent post, thank you TR.
If I may ask a question; I have a two story house, with a tall deck accessible off the second floor. It runs along the entire back of the house, and has stairs down to the back yard. As of such, the master bedroom has a window that is directly accessible from the deck (and thus the back yard) -- so it's basically a "first floor" room with a large window.
Anyone who wished harm upon me or my family could smash that window and immediately be in the room where my wife and baby and I sleep. Do you have any recommendations as to how to fortify such a vulnerable window without negatively affecting the property value? Double-paned glass doesn't seem like it would serve as much of a deterrent.
I like that it is easy to exit the window in case of a fire, but I'm displeased with its potential as a point of entry.
Excellent post, thank you TR.
If I may ask a question; I have a two story house, with a tall deck accessible off the second floor. It runs along the entire back of the house, and has stairs down to the back yard. As of such, the master bedroom has a window that is directly accessible from the deck (and thus the back yard) -- so it's basically a "first floor" room with a large window.
Anyone who wished harm upon me or my family could smash that window and immediately be in the room where my wife and baby and I sleep. Do you have any recommendations as to how to fortify such a vulnerable window without negatively affecting the property value? Double-paned glass doesn't seem like it would serve as much of a deterrent.
I like that it is easy to exit the window in case of a fire, but I'm displeased with its potential as a point of entry.
Maybe not to fortify, but certainly cause a deterrent. Is the window alone as a unit, or is also door, sliding door, or french door?
If not, items in front of window, either side, (e.g., patio furniture, or inside credenza, etc.), could buy a few seconds, and maybe that's enough time to roll to dresser and secure weapon.
I've had hotel suite/rooms like that.
RyanR,
Scissors gates at the window, that secure to an inside wall are one thought. Even if they slide completely out of sight, that may not be an acceptable solution to those of the other gender. (Found that out myself):rolleyes:
There's one solution that bites the wallet a bit, at least by my values. There are some very nice looking bi-fold wooden doors of different sizes meant for large and small windows. They are louvered and can have the louvers opened and closed by an attached rod. They're actually quite attractive.
Meant for appearances, they also are another obstacle to the intruder, visually and physically.
The other down-side to this solution is that they are a b**ch to stain. :)
The Reaper
02-09-2010, 21:35
Burglar bars with a double cylinder deadbolt and the key in the lock?
TR
Thank you all for the posts and PMs, very much appreciated.
bravo22b
02-10-2010, 10:11
Exterior doors would have no glass, or adjacent glass in a perfect world. All should be steel or fiberglass with deadbolts, strikeboxes, kickplates, and 3" screws throughout. Door jambs should be reinforced by doubling or tripling studs on both sides. All doors should be heavily shimmed and properly installed.
Just to add to this good advice - One way to reinforce the jamb is to use minimal expansion spray foam to fill the space between the door jamb and the studs. This has the additional benefit of eliminating a major source of air infiltration into the house. Once a door jamb has been foamed in place, very little short of cutting through the foam all the way around the door will dislodge it. It also helps the jamb from being compressed with a pry bar between the door and jamb.
The right way to do this is to pry off the casing (trim) on one side of the door. Make sure the door jamb is properly shimmed and fastened, especially shimmed behind the hinges and the strike of the lock. Use minimal expansion foam (red can around here) or foam labeled for use in sealing doors / windows (blue can up here). If you use triple expansion foam you will make a big mess and may not be able to open the door after it expands. The foam made for doors / windows is OK, but dries softer than the minimal expansion foam, and won't resist forced entry as well.
Use the can to spray a bead of foam into the gap, just enough to bridge both sides of the crack. Don't fill up the whole gap front to back. After you have sealed the gap with the right amount of foam, close the door (if not already closed), and shim between the door and the jamb to maintain the gap. If you do not do this, the foam may force the jamb tight against the door and prevent it from opening easily.
When the foam dries, cut off the excess, and reinstall the casing.
Take care not to get the foam on you or your belongings. Put a dropcloth down before you start, and if you do drop some foam on something, consider letting it dry before you try to clean it up, otherwise you may smear it all over the place.
craigepo
02-24-2010, 21:13
I received an e-mail regarding using wasp spray as a replacement for pepper spray. I'm attaching a Snopes review, which states generally that wasp spray works, and might work too well.
On this subject, I'm curious if there are any other household/barnyard chemicals that would work in a self-defense pinch, i.e. after I've fired all remaining ammo?
http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp
On this subject, I'm curious if there are any other household/barnyard chemicals that would work in a self-defense pinch, i.e. after I've fired all remaining ammo?
I'm under the impression that pepper - the kind kept on the table - is somewhat effective if thrown in the face. Partly because it gets in the eyes, partly because it causes sneezing. If so, it would make a possible expedient when one is unarmed in a restaurant.
However - I would like to hear the thoughts of others as to the validity of the notion.
A good auto paint supplier will fill any spray can with whatever you like (absent stuff that is illegal in itself). That can be a can of paint that's been adjusted for fading to the age of your car.
That can be a good can of Louisiana Hot Sauce :)
craigepo
02-24-2010, 21:43
I remember when mre's first came out with small bottles of hot sauce. One of our guys accidentally threw one in a fire---damn thing exploded and almost took out a whole team.
Here's a cell phone that advertises itself as also a stun gun:
http://www.safetygearhq.com/cell-phone-stun-gun.htm
The common bear spray has a range of 15-30 feet (depending on variant), but may come with restrictions re: use against humans.
http://www.safetygearhq.com/bearspray.htm
Just some thoughts.
I remember when mre's first came out with small bottles of hot sauce. One of our guys accidentally threw one in a fire---damn thing exploded and almost took out a whole team.
I remember hot sauce as a crucial item of supply. There are a number of things I've eaten while deployed that would never have stayed down without it, and a lot of stuff that shouldn't have stayed down anyway :)
Here's a cell phone that advertises itself as also a stun gun:
http://www.safetygearhq.com/cell-phone-stun-gun.htm
The common bear spray has a range of 15-30 feet (depending on variant), but may come with restrictions re: use against humans.
http://www.safetygearhq.com/bearspray.htm
Just some thoughts.
Be very careful with stun guns. Youngest son bought one home from a local "Trade Center" where merchants rent tables and sell and these were sold openly.
However, Mich. law considers the carry of one, absent LEOs, COs, etc., to be a Felony.
I haven't given this its due consideration. I have three dogs which should at least give us ample warning. My wife is handy enough with her .380 pistol to hold her own. I've got a .45 in the bed stand and plenty of firepower in the closet. BUT, you've made me realize that my daughter is on the other end of the house. Thanks for the wake-up call. I'll work on this.
I'm under the impression that pepper - the kind kept on the table - is somewhat effective if thrown in the face. Partly because it gets in the eyes, partly because it causes sneezing. If so, it would make a possible expedient when one is unarmed in a restaurant.
If I were in a restaurant, the pepper shaker would not be the first thing I grabbed to defend myself. Brain them with the beer pitcher, slash or stab with the steak knife or any other utensil or smash them with a chair - show some spirit!
If you throw pepper in their face, they will DEFINITELY want to kill you...:)
armymom1228
02-24-2010, 22:38
Excellent post, thank you TR.
If I may ask a question; I have a two story house, with a tall deck accessible off the second floor. It runs along the entire back of the house, and has stairs down to the back yard. As of such, the master bedroom has a window that is directly accessible from the deck (and thus the back yard) -- so it's basically a "first floor" room with a large window.
Anyone who wished harm upon me or my family could smash that window and immediately be in the room where my wife and baby and I sleep. Do you have any recommendations as to how to fortify such a vulnerable window without negatively affecting the property value? Double-paned glass doesn't seem like it would serve as much of a deterrent.
I like that it is easy to exit the window in case of a fire, but I'm displeased with its potential as a point of entry.
How about fixing the stair so that it can be made to swing up and be secured in the UP position, therefore not encouraging someone to use the stairs as a avenue of entry? Not saying it could not be an entry but generally most people seeking to enter a house univited look for something easier.
armymom1228
02-24-2010, 22:45
I'm under the impression that pepper - the kind kept on the table - is somewhat effective if thrown in the face. Partly because it gets in the eyes, partly because it causes sneezing. If so, it would make a possible expedient when one is unarmed in a restaurant.
However - I would like to hear the thoughts of others as to the validity of the notion.
Cayenne Pepper is even more effective. At one point Cayenne Pepper poured into bottom paint was supposed to be a deterrent to bottom bio growths on boats. I can tell you that it is a deterrent to ever using it again. I had the joy of sanding the crap off a boat. Long sleeves taped shut, pants taped shut and a respirator did not keep that stuff out of my eyes. Horrible experience.
Ammonia in half or two thirds strength. - deterrent
Any bug spray in the face can be lethal.
Straight bleach in the face can permanently blind someone.
Hot cooking oil/boiling grits can be thrown on an intruder.
Hair spray in a can. Any Aerosol spray can either be a deterrent or lethal depending on what it is.
laundry stain remover..
Bleach
dish soap in the eyes is a deterrent.
nail polish remover..
You can take a can of hair spray and turn it into a flame thrower. Don't ask me how I know this...:D
In a word, SUPER SOAKER... once primed they are awesome water weapons.
That enough ideas your honor?
AM
How about fixing the stair so that it can be made to swing up and be secured in the UP position, therefore not encouraging someone to use the stairs as a avenue of entry? Not saying it could not be an entry but generally most people seeking to enter a house univited look for something easier.
I'm sure it could be done, but it's actually quite a long way down. I've certainly never seen it done. I'm actually considering just removing the bit of deck that wraps around to the bedroom. It'd mean someone could still access the kitchen across the house, but not just stand outside my bedroom window.
It's basically something like this: http://www.ejwadeconstruction.net/images/residential/I/pics/Rear%20two%20story%20screened%20in%20porch%20with% 20deck%20below.jpg
Good physical security preparations.
IDo you have trousers and shoes handy, or plan to don them before clearing the house?
TR
This is something I hadn't thought of and wasn't prepared for. A few nights ago there were several shots fired in front of my house. While i immediately had access to my gun it took me some time to find pants to put on before going outside.
Doc Pollard
03-04-2010, 13:35
In 1996 the small community (population 495) I live in in rural Vermont experienced a number of break ins. Various items were stolen and it was likely some of the local teens screwing off.
So I am home one day with three kids: ages 3 (girl) ,2 (boy) and 1 (boy) month old. We are between cycles at the Mountain Warfare School so I am home dumb happy and getting fat. I had just dropped my oldest daughter off at pre-school and came home with the other three. The way our house is situated I can see the entire 1500 foot driveway and after getting the kids situated I was watching my dogs outside playing in the drive when they all turned tail and ran for the door. Which was a very odd thing for them to do so I started for the mud room to find my very large neighbor standing in the doorway between the kitchen and pantry (which leads to the mud room).
I blew up and demanded to know what he was doing in my house to which this knucklehead answered: "I came to see what I could steal"
Now I am home alone with 3 kids. This guy is between me and the only viable exit as we had just dug up the footing drains and therefore had a 8 foot wide, 11 foot deep trench around the house. The only working phone at the time was beside him and the dogs were outside barking. I ordered him out a total of times (best Drill Sgt impression I could muster) and he laughed.
My daughter and oldest son came to see what Dad was screaming about and were right behind me so I ordered them to get the baby, go to their room, lock their door, go into their closet, lock that door and sit with their back to the door and not to move until I came for them. Again i ordered him out and he laughed and my sorry arse was totally unarmed. I couldn't even get so much as a kitchen knife with out being well with-in the 25 foot danger zone of this guy. So when I heard the bedroom door slam I beat feet to the living room where I had been working on my Grandfather's double barrel 12ga (which I should add was unloaded and had no firing pins in it at the time) and turned to find he had followed me and was now in the dinning room, right on my tail.
I turned, pointed what was effectively a paperweight at his head and told him last chance and he bolted. I got the kids, departed the house, called the State Police from the road and met them back at my house to ID the puke whom admitted to being in the house when I got home (in the basement where he entered through and unsecured bulkhead)
So learn from my mistakes. I had zero weapons available to me at the time. had zero planning done and things were rapidly going down hill and thankfully this idiot hadn't attacked while I was in retrograde looking for something that might go bang.
I am now rarely farther than two large steps away from a well hidden and loaded firearm anywhere in my house. I carry any time I am outside my house and always have a BUG on me. My kids, when over, know an immediate action drill, e & e and FPF plan and we have rehersed it multiple times.
My fiancee thinks I am paranoid and has always expressed her feelings that I am one brain cell short of wearing a bib all the time because of my "over preparedness". However, three weeks ago she was on the phone with me while I was coming home from work and the phone went dead, three or four seconds later the power went out and the dog started barking at the window. She clicked automatically into an IA drill and I arrived home 10 minutes later to find her locked in the bathroom with the dog, a scorpion light and a 1911A1 and demanded that I give her the sign/counter sign or there was going to be multiples holes in the door/wall where I was standing. The power outage was due to a telephone pole being taken out in town by a drunk driver, the dog was likely barking at his own shadow and she did a fine job in my opinion.
Moral of the story is: never forget to prepare for daylight bad guys or for times when your loved ones might be home with out you.
In regards to improvised weapons, here is a link to an older book which I found to be an excellent primer on improvised weapons when I was a newly minted street cop.
http://www.amazon.com/Equalizers-Black-Medicine-N-Mashiro/dp/0873648153/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c
The prose can be a little dramatic and a couple of ideas are perhaps a little overly optimistic , but overall I found it to be a a good book that really opened my eyes to the utility of everyday items as weapons when I was young and naive.
The knowledge and mindset I gained from this book saved me from injury a few times when I was working the street.
Don't rack a pump shotgun as a warning. People breaking in are idiots to begin with and may be high on drugs, or worse mentally ill. A lot of people are not shooters and they do not know what a racked shotgun sounds like.
Don't put up warning signs that say "intruders will be shot". Idiots will break in because they think they can steal your guns.
Wire all of your house lights, both inside and out to one master switch. If something suspicious happens, turn on "all the lights" with one flip of the switch. May be expensive, but it's worth it. Plus that will help you ID the neice that you gave keys to ten years ago and told her to come over when ever she needs help. Put some decorative mirrors in the corners around the house to help you see "around the corner" Might even want to shoot through the wall if you can see them in the mirror, but don't quote me on that.
A hidden handgun is not within reach when you need it. A handgun must be on your person at all times or it won't be in reach when you need it. Pain in the neck, you bet. A gun holstered on your hip is a lot safer then one laying around the house someplace.
"They" say that forty percent of all breakins are by someone you know or indirectly know. Keep your mouth shut about your neat gun collection, your vacation and your schedule. If you have kids, they will talk to their friends about your gun collection.
Semper Fidelis,
Tippy
The Reaper
03-07-2010, 22:25
Hey, Tippy.
Thanks for the advice, but this is not where your first post goes.
Please review the rules and comply before posting again.
TR
TrapLine
06-03-2010, 13:10
Some of these methods seem rather far fetched, but scary at the same time. Some have already been addressed in this thread, others such as the EMP threat might be tough to prevent.
10 Bizarre-but-True Ways Your Home Is Susceptible to Hackers
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/06/03/ways-your-home-susceptible-hackers-cybersecurity/?test=faces
Thanks to those who have contributed to this thread. There are some important things for me to consider here.
There's a National Geographic documentary that will air on Tuesday, June 15th at 10 p.m. EDT: Electronic Armageddon. It is about the effects of a High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP) on the US.
Javadrinker
02-06-2013, 17:49
Geese are unbelievably territorial. They use them for security on English farms.
Every been chased or pecked by a goose? Nasty critters. Disturbed at night, they are both vocal and mean. Not to mention they make a great dinner.:D
I would add guinea fowl also. Very alert, very noisy. Just one more level, and also good eating.
Being sheepdogs at heart its something we are always envisioning. The unexpected happening to of all people, us. I have always had a loaded glock next to my nightstand. Recently I've added a 12 guage to our sleeping arrangements since our sons have moved on. (ala Richard) We have the usual locks and security alarms but my most trusted are two 80lb boxer's that sleep at the foot of our bed. :o
This is something I hadn't thought of and wasn't prepared for. A few nights ago there were several shots fired in front of my house. While i immediately had access to my gun it took me some time to find pants to put on before going outside.
One could have a pair of light, elastic waist band "cargo" shorts or pants with a quick fasten belt.
Extra pistol mags in left hand pocket for righty pistol shooters and SG shells in the right pocket.
Maybe a pay as you go cell phone in a pocket?
In the event of needed hasty action and you drop or do not pick up your regular cell phone from the night stand...
Maybe some "slip on" shoes (not open toe "flip flops") by the bed in the event you have to continue repelling invaders off your property...
RE: Shotgun ammo... Maybe the first 2 rounds are #10 shot, then apply 00.
In the event that the intruder is a "rookie" and retreats immediately you're not putting any family members at risk and blasting up all the drywall (not that you won't be anyway but...).
Obvioulsy if they keep comin', different game.
Love the "remote control" light behind the intruder input!
As usual all other advice is top notch!
Spring break this week, we will be revisiting our fire escape and other "what to do if..." scenarios...
This is one of my favorite threads along with "be prepared".
Thanks to all! :D
Streck-Fu
03-21-2013, 08:45
Do you have a trauma kit handy for yourself, your family members, or wounded intruder(s)?
TR
Since the thread was bumped and I read through page one again,
I'd have to say that there is no way in hell I'd touch a wounded intruder. I'd cover them with a weapon until LEO responded or let them run if they could but i would not attempt aid.
They broke in an probably threatened violence if shot, I'm not getting within touching distance of them.
craigepo
03-21-2013, 12:32
Since the thread was bumped and I read through page one again,
I'd have to say that there is no way in hell I'd touch a wounded intruder. I'd cover them with a weapon until LEO responded or let them run if they could but i would not attempt aid.
They broke in an probably threatened violence if shot, I'm not getting within touching distance of them.
If they get blood anywhere, then they have to deal with spousal unit alpha, in which case they will be begging for law enforcement to arrive and cart them off to jail.
This is something I hadn't thought of and wasn't prepared for. A few nights ago there were several shots fired in front of my house. While i immediately had access to my gun it took me some time to find pants to put on before going outside.
I live in the older, historic district of my town. It is bordered by some "less than desirable" neighborhoods. Consequently, I have had a few middle of the night visitors poking around the yard and porches and on a couple of occasions banging on the door. The dogs usually run off all but the drunkest or most serious. So on a couple of occasions I've gone out and confronted them with my CAR 15. Warning shots fired. My wife was meanwhile calling the PO-lice. When the LEOs arrived, they were always entertained by my attire of boxer shorts only while covering the intruder. MS is a castle doctrine state. So if they actually enter or you feel you are in mortal danger in your yard or car..... Even the densest and most doped up seem to have broken the code on this. This being a small town, word does travel. This stuff has pretty much stopped at my house in the last few years.