60 Minutes: Green Berets: The Quiet Professionals

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/28/60minutes/main6151526.shtml


BMT

[Dragbag036]

Thanks for the post...I have set my DVR

[Speedgod]

DVR is set.

BMT, thank you for the heads up!


SG :munchin

[wet dog]

Good find.

[JJ_BPK]

Lara Logan's report, examining a strategy requested by the president to train more Afghan troops, will be broadcast this Sunday, Jan. 31, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.



I smell a fail.

Is 60 minutes and Ms Lara capable of unbiased reporting??

Barry has no strategy, no military education, other than reading Saul Alinsky and Bill Ayers..

I will watch in spite of myself... :cool:

[Utah Bob]

I will remain cautiously optimistic.

[suede18]

This should be good...maybe 60 minutes wont offer too much of there liberalist perspective but more solidtruth for the people to digest, but I'll be watching anyway

[Richard]

Bob Schieffer says Lara Logan is a top notch reporter - that's good enough for me so I'll be watching.

Richard

[Utah Bob]

Bob Schieffer says Lara Logan is a top notch reporter - that's good enough for me so I'll be watching.

Richard

I agree. I have enjoyed her reporting in the past.

[wet dog]

I miss British reporting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv61DlEM43U

[armymom1228]

I smell a fail.

Is 60 minutes and Ms Lara capable of unbiased reporting??

Barry has no strategy, no military education, other than reading Saul Alinsky and Bill Ayers..

I will watch in spite of myself... :cool:

She has traveled with SF previously, Lara Logan in Iraq. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFqPqMjOSY) This is the exact video that made me decide that it was time to educate myself about the men my son supports.

I am ambivalent about her reporting. I have seen some I felt was good and others I thought was a bit biased. In any case, she is easy on the eyes and willing to put herself in places that most male reporters don't have the guts to go. Gotta give her credit for that if nothing else.

[AngelsSix]

She's top notch all right...f*cking home wrecking ho is what she is. I have no respect for women that mess around and have unprotected sex, or men for that matter...especially when both of them are married....sickening!

Bets on whether or not she will actually marry baby daddy?? I say if they do, won't last long. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

Edit: Apparently they are already married, baby was born in DEC. Still a ho.

[Sigaba]

Source is here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/07/AR2008070702662_pf.html).Back From War, Into Tabloid Territory
Foreign Affairs Correspondent Lara Logan's Public Private Life

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 8, 2008

After four years of living in Baghdad, war was taking its toll on Lara Logan.

As CBS's chief foreign affairs correspondent, she regularly risked her life by accompanying American forces in combat. But there were more personal strains as well: Her mother had died after a lengthy coma, she and her husband had long ago agreed to a separation, and, last November, she broke off an intense relationship with another journalist in Baghdad. Soon afterward, Logan started dating Joseph Burkett, a federal contractor stationed in Iraq who was separated from his wife back in Texas.

Now, having just moved to Washington with an expanded portfolio for the network, Logan finds her romantic life reduced to tabloid fodder. And there is a new complication: She recently discovered that she is pregnant.

"Nobody likes to read about themselves like that, especially the way it's been sensationalized," Logan says of the coverage that spread to the front page of the New York Post, which called her a "sexy CBS siren" and "in-bedded reporter." "I hated it. But I'm just going to rise above it and keep going." The baby is due in January, she says, and she is "looking forward to being a mom."

Logan, 37, says she and Burkett plan to get married eventually. Her divorce is slated to become final in two weeks, and Burkett's divorce trial is likely to end next month. But the case has turned decidedly messy, with Burkett's estranged wife Kimberly, the mother of their 3-year-old daughter, charging that Logan broke up her marriage.

Much of the media interest is fueled by the South African native's rapid rise to stardom, which has brought her both celebrity status and a string of journalistic prizes, including an Emmy Award, Overseas Press Club Award and, last week, an Edward R. Murrow Award. While some may accuse her of tawdry conduct, what happened to Logan is an all-too-familiar tale of someone consumed by a career and needing a partner who understands the peculiar pressures involved.

"I just surrendered myself completely" to the Iraq story, Logan says. "If you give yourself 100 percent to the people around you, it's very hard to have anything left. Being away for long periods, when you come home, you can't explain what it is you've been doing to someone who's never been through it."

CBS News President Sean McManus calls Logan a "fearless" reporter with "a dynamic quality that just jumps off the screen." He says he transferred her to Washington to get her on the air more often and that "depending on her situation with her child, I'd anticipate she'd be covering the war in Iraq again.

" . . . All the distractions happening now will at some point be behind her and behind CBS News and she will succeed based on the quality of her work," McManus says.

Logan married Jason Siemon, a former professional basketball player in Europe who now works as an energy lobbyist in Chicago, in 1998. Soon after that, her career began to take off.

She had spent years as a freelancer for CBS, NBC, CNN and British television, landing a job as a CBS correspondent and "60 Minutes II" contributor only after talking her way into Afghanistan following the Sept. 11 attacks. Not long afterward, she was in a Humvee with members of the 10th Mountain Division on the Afghan-Pakistani border when the vehicle was struck by an antitank missile, causing a fall that tore the skin inside Logan's mouth and bruised her face. When U.S. forces led the Iraq invasion in 2003, CBS withdrew all its correspondents, but Logan drove back in 10 days later.

"I'm not some Hollywood star," Logan says in her first interview on the subject. "It's not about a career for me. It's who I am. I do this because I believe in it."

Despite her years of war reporting, Logan has also drawn attention for her striking looks and provocative comments on such programs as "The Daily Show," where last month she demonstrated how she curses with soldiers. The British press often refers to her as a "former swimsuit model" because of part-time work she did as a student.

As the Iraq conflict dragged on, Logan grew apart from Siemon. The decision to separate was particularly hard for her because her own parents had divorced when she was 8. Siemon could not be reached for comment.

Last year, about two years after Logan and her husband had separated, she began a relationship with Michael Ware, a CNN correspondent in Iraq. Shortly after that romance ended in November, she started dating Burkett, a friend she had met years earlier when both were working in Afghanistan.

Despite his government contracting duties, Logan says, "we always respect each other's boundaries. We agreed never to talk about our work."

At the time, Burkett was separated from his wife of 3 1/2 years. He had been in Afghanistan and Iraq, away from their Texas home, for most of Kimberly Burkett's pregnancy and most of their marriage, according to a family friend who declined to be identified because of a confidentiality agreement in the divorce case. The friend said the marriage had long been rocky and that Kimberly Burkett had asked for a divorce several times. Joseph Burkett would not be interviewed.

In January, Burkett flew home to file for divorce, and acknowledged to his wife that he had begun a relationship with Logan. Kimberly, 32, was hospitalized after taking an overdose of tranquilizers, according to the family friend.

At a court hearing that month, Joseph Burkett told the judge he was having an extramarital affair, and his attorney said that was not the reason for the divorce.

The National Enquirer reported last month on what the tabloid called Logan's "torrid affair with a married man." Kimberly Burkett's lawyer, Susie Chmielowiec, told the supermarket tabloid that "Kimberly believes Lara stole her husband -- and now they're trying to steal her little girl." The divorce case includes a custody dispute between Burkett and his wife.

Chmielowiec and Burkett's lawyer, Jonathan Cluck, did not respond to requests for comment. The Enquirer quoted Kimberly Burkett last week as saying that "Lara Logan deserves to be canned" and that her CBS promotion is "a slap in the face to everyone who believes in marriage."

Carole Cooper, Logan's agent, says the publicity has been unpleasant. "It has been difficult for her but she's coping fine," she says. "She's a strong woman."

Logan became pregnant shortly before leaving Baghdad in April, although she did not know it at the time, and flew to New York to sign a new contract that would compensate her for her expanded responsibilities in Washington. Logan had spent the previous two months involved in negotiations that freed a kidnapped CBS videographer, Richard Butler, and says she felt that Iraq had become too dangerous for her. But she still hopes to report from there in the future.

The pregnancy was unplanned. Logan says she lost one of her fallopian tubes during an ectopic pregnancy years ago and believed at her age it was highly unlikely that she could get pregnant. The news came at a time when she was looking to change her life. At CBS, Logan says, "they let me run around the world doing everything I want to do. It's a dream job, but it comes at a cost.

"Since 9/11, I've spent 95 percent of my time on the road, and I do need to have a home at some point. I do need to settle down. I've been living like a refugee."

[HowardCohodas]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/28/60minutes/main6151526.shtml


BMT

Just in case the golf tour causes a delay in the start of 60 min, I'm recording the program afterwords as well, although I have no intention of watching the grammys. :p

[JJ_BPK]

Source is here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/07/AR2008070702662_pf.html).

Good encapsulated bio. No doubt Lara is an aggressive reporter with the prerequisite Type "A" Personalty.

She is good...

BUT,, My earlier doubts stemmed from her suggesting O was the source of the NEW tactic of Hearts & Minds.


Additionally, I am now concerned about her heath. Is it possible these wounds may be affecting her judgment?? PTSD??

Not long afterward, she was in a Humvee with members of the 10th Mountain Division on the Afghan-Pakistani border when the vehicle was struck by an antitank missile, causing a fall that tore the skin inside Logan's mouth and bruised her face.

No more guessing,, I'll watch the show.. :D

[Richard]

Good show on how mundane life in SF can be - here's the CBS link.

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml

Richard

[Anevolution]

The worst show on SF I have ever seen. She was asking very leading questions trying to get a reaction out of both of the men being interviewed. Also ending with that last clip of a mistake was very unprofessional of her and 60 minutes. The left handed compliments being thrown out the whole time was very discouraging and made me angry. I was very excited to see what this show was going to be about but I should have known better. I don't think I will be watching 60 minutes in the future. It makes me wonder why they still get access and who aproved this show from the Militery standpoint.

V/r
Anevolution

[Richard]

The worst show on SF I have ever seen.

Let me know when you've spent time somewhere isolated on an ODA working with what ya got to work with and showing up to the fight with what ya brung - then I'll consider your opinion as having some sort of value >0.

Until then...back to your video-games.

Richard

[MtnGoat]

I didn't like it in terms of what it covered. It was great.. showing a 14 min piece of SF and what we are doing in country. BUT.. I feel they could have covered a lot more for being there for what?? Over 4 months on two different ODA Fire BAse and on at the HQ.

OPSEC would have been handled, but the PR value would have been high.

[Anevolution]

Let me know when you've spent time somewhere isolated on an ODA working with what ya got to work with and showing up to the fight with what ya brung - then I'll consider your opinion as having some sort of value >0.

Unti then...back to your video-games.

Richard

Sir,
No disrespect to you or the brave men of any ODA's, I was reffering to the way the show was broadcast I apologize for any confussion. I just think the show had a bad Connotation about it.
V/r
Anevolution

[HowardCohodas]

My only experience with QPs is on this forum and some others I have met outside the forum since joining. I seems to me the audience for this segment is not QPs, so I feel no reluctance to comment.

First, my overall impression that the report was light and unfocused. A combination story of our mission and the men entrusted to achieve it. I think those personally interviewed acquitted themselves well given the questions they were asked.

The remainder was a hodgepodge of problems and failures and not one interview with a villager grateful for our presence.

As an aside, my wife viewed this segment with me. It was the first time I've admitted my participation on this forum, my admiration for the QP mission and the people attempting to achieve it. She admires the mission, but does not get my interest in participating on the forum. Oh well

[Richard]

Sir,
No disrespect to you or the brave men of any ODA's, I was reffering to the way the show was broadcast I apologize for any confussion. I just think the show had a bad Connotation about it.
V/r
Anevolution

Like a hog staring at a wristwatch - it helps if you can understand what you're looking at. It wasn't a Ranger or SEAL or USAREC hooah piece - it showed how difficult the mission can be and what life can be like out there. It just isn't in SWA and it isn't a video game - it is what it is and it ain't easy.

Richard

[stickey]

I am always taken aback at the responsibility that our men take upon themselves. I'm humbled to be able to serve in support with them.

Now, on a less sappy note, i can't help but smile when reporters, especially Lara Logan, interview the way they do. The accent turns it into a comedy skit and I'm waiting for the punchline or something. Now, we all know her reputation, but did it not seem like she was almost flirting while asking them questions?

[Ambush Master]

Perhaps all should go to this Thread, Post #2, made by Dan!! Watch these in the order that they are listed, trust me, YOU WILL...... learn something!!!


http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19944

Do not reply until you have watched all 3!!

Take care!
Martin

[Remington Raidr]

I was amazed at the flawless make-up job in the middle of bandit country. I liked the high points, like spooky, and statistically speaking, with that many people with guns, there are gonna be some mistakes.

But the big headscratcher for me was the smoke session where they are getting yelled at in english. What was up with that? Was that for the benefit of the film crew? Or are these indigs selected because they understand english? I have always thought that one thing that separates Army SF from the other HSLD warfighters is the linguistics.:confused:

**watched video link from Richard and posted prior to seeing AM's post.

[Odin]

But the big headscratcher for me was the smoke session where they are getting yelled at in english. What was up with that? Was that for the benefit of the film crew? Or are these indigs selected because they understand english? I have always thought that one thing that separates Army SF from the other HSLD warfighters is the linguistics.:confused:


They had translators. The Terps will translate the words but sometimes you need to yell. Just because they dont speak your language doesnt mean that they dont "understand".

[Thurman]

I never watch 60 Minutes but I DVR'ed it after seeing this thread

As a civilian whose knowledge of SF is limited to a few books and lurking here, I liked it and thought it portrayed the QPs favorably, over all

[qmcgee]

A question to the QP's on this board. To me it seemed like she was trying to bait on of the soldiers into saying something bad about the Afghan commandos am I correct in my observation or am I reading to much into it? I also like how posied he was and how he handled the question and didn't fall into that trap.

[walleyed]

Liked parts of it, but ...I have to say, I wonder if the 'quiet professionals' and similar colleagues should go back to being quiet. Maybe reject book deals, news pieces, movies, camera crews etc. It seems to take a little of the professionalism away. I feel the same about sellouts in my own field who do reality TV. We naturally crave attention and recognition, or need the fame and free advertising, not to mention enjoy the company of some fine journalist tail. But I think part of being a professional is skill, grace and humility.

The part I liked was the 'accidental' shooting of the kids in the truck. I don't know if I believe it or not. I mean this guy is an expert rifleman and killer. Two shots and two hits on a moving, bumpy target at 50m+. One even a center chest shot. I bet he always got picked first in a pick up game too. Glad the kids lived though. Hope they don't hold a grudge...

On a related note, this would have been a 5.56mm round right? I know the trajectory carried it to the posterior left shoulder exit, but seriously, the kid looked pretty good. Ballistic round cavitation should've done something to a great vessel or arch vessel.

[head]

Liked parts of it, but ...I have to say, I wonder if the 'quiet professionals' and similar colleagues should go back to being quiet. Maybe reject book deals, news pieces, movies, camera crews etc. It seems to take a little of the professionalism away. I feel the same about sellouts in my own field who do reality TV. We naturally crave attention and recognition, or need the fame and free advertising, not to mention enjoy the company of some fine journalist tail. But I think part of being a professional is skill, grace and humility.

So, you believe that the piece was done because SF craves attention and recognition, needs the fame and free advertising, or the company of fine journalist tail? And you also come to this conclusion from viewing the video that AmbushMaster linked to and said that you need to view first before posting in this thread? I believe Richard put it eloquently when he said "Let me know when you've spent time somewhere isolated on an ODA working with what ya got to work with and showing up to the fight with what ya brung - then I'll consider your opinion as having some sort of value >0." IMO, the piece was not well done but that was to fault CBS - the professionals handled the questions appropriately - when did they show lack of skill, grace, and humility? That's a rhetorical question.


The part I liked was the 'accidental' shooting of the kids in the truck. I don't know if I believe it or not. I mean this guy is an expert rifleman and killer. Two shots and two hits on a moving, bumpy target at 50m+. One even a center chest shot. I bet he always got picked first in a pick up game too. Glad the kids lived though. Hope they don't hold a grudge...


So are you saying you don't believe he wasn't aiming for the kids or are you saying you think that the kids were already shot when showed up? Since you said that you "hope they don't hold a grudge", I assume the first and which case you really need to shut up. Don't worry, no reply is necessary - silence is golden.

[Utah Bob]

My only experience with QPs is on this forum and some others I have met outside the forum since joining. I seems to me the audience for this segment is not QPs, so I feel no reluctance to comment.

First, my overall impression that the report was light and unfocused. A combination story of our mission and the men entrusted to achieve it. I think those personally interviewed acquitted themselves well given the questions they were asked.

The remainder was a hodgepodge of problems and failures and not one interview with a villager grateful for our presence.

As an aside, my wife viewed this segment with me. It was the first time I've admitted my participation on this forum, my admiration for the QP mission and the people attempting to achieve it. She admires the mission, but does not get my interest in participating on the forum. Oh well

Remember that their 2-week imbed and who knows how many hours of footage and interviews was condensed into a 15 minute segment. Not exactly enough time to do an in-depth story on SF. Who knows what ended up on the cutting room floor? It could be that a lot of her questions strayed into areas that merely elicited silence from the team members.

A question to the QP's on this board. To me it seemed like she was trying to bait on of the soldiers into saying something bad about the Afghan commandos am I correct in my observation or am I reading to much into it? I also like how posied he was and how he handled the question and didn't fall into that trap.

Don't have much experience with the news media do you?;)

Now, we all know her reputation, but did it not seem like she was almost flirting while asking them questions?

Reputations are funny things. Sometimes deserved, sometimes not.
Every time a good looking woman talks to me It seems like she's flirting. In my mind anyway.


The worst show on SF I have ever seen.
You're right. Missing in Action was soo much better.:rolleyes::p

[LarryW]

(from Ambush Master) Perhaps all should go to this Thread, Post #2, made by Dan!! Watch these in the order that they are listed, trust me, YOU WILL...... learn something!!!


http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=19944

Do not reply until you have watched all 3!!

Good advice.

[Shans84]

As a child the stories I heard about SF was ALL I heard and made me admire the QPs. Now every damn thing is documented, specially reported or some crap like that and it takes the zing out of the stories. Honestly, I think there are just somethings that should not be talked about in the media.

[Richard]

...it takes the zing out of the stories.

I felt the same way about Santa Claus - and then I grew to realize it was far more complex than my perception of it all and - in reality - what I had ever imagined it to be in my limited experiences.

So is SF, the SF missions, and the SF soldiers themselves.

Maybe if you tried it you might understand it all a bit better.

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[akv]

The piece seemed to me one of tough disciplined men doing a tough job. My takeaway was the situation there is both vital to our interests and very much undecided, we need to give these men the support they need.

[98G]

Perhaps all should go to this Thread, Post #2, made by Dan!! Watch these in the order that they are listed, trust me, YOU WILL...... learn something!!!


http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19944

Do not reply until you have watched all 3!!

Take care!
Martin

Great link from AM and Dan. Thank you for providing them. The 52 minute documentary is well made and in fairness, given OPSEC, I think the "60 Minutes" 15 minute interview was worth watching to remind the masses that training indigenous forces comes with its own risks and issues. I am not sure what else could be expected. Maybe for the non QP, and especially non vets, try reading Kipling. It isn't (and never was) all glory and adoring locals. As far as the journalist's personal life, well, IMHO it is her personal life. She has my respect for heading downrange when most do not. And my guess... the soldiers did not mind her being easy on the eye and at least a few may have hoped she was flirting. :cool:

[LJ19]

I'm reading the comments left on the site. I can't imagine how infuriating it must be to have people second-guess everything you do, themselves never having been in that position.

[alright4u]

Bob Schieffer says Lara Logan is a top notch reporter - that's good enough for me so I'll be watching.

Richard

Any ideas?

[dennisw]

I'm curious why the reporter did not interview the more senior members of the team?

[Odin]

I'm curious why the reporter did not interview the more senior members of the team?


I was thinking the same thing.......Where was the TM SGT and TL? Did their interviews not make the final cut? Maybe they knew what a train-wreck the piece would become and they didn't want anything to do with it. :confused:

[HowardCohodas]

I was thinking the same thing.......Where was the TM SGT and TL? Did their interviews not make the final cut? Maybe they knew what a train-wreck the piece would become and they didn't want anything to do with it. :confused:

In my view, this concern is missing the point. Although the overnight ratings were not publicly available last I checked, I am convinced that this show was viewed by a large audience. My concern is getting that audience to understand and support the mission and to support those brave men who are there to achieve it.

In order to achieve that support I maintain that we should have had feedback from the customer. I would have preferred a villager or at least one a village elder.

[Odin]

In my view, this concern is missing the point. Although the overnight ratings were not publicly available last I checked, I am convinced that this show was viewed by a large audience. My concern is getting that audience to understand and support the mission and to support those brave men who are there to achieve it.

In order to achieve that support I maintain that we should have had feedback from the customer. I would have preferred a villager or at least one a village elder.

I wasn't concerned about it, I just found it to be interesting.

I think with this war having been fought for some time now, people have made up their minds one way or the other. I feel that people use these programs to justify their opinions on either staying and fighting for a good cause or to pull out. I guess that leads to me to ask why SF would agree to do this and why the decision to move forward and allow it to be aired after PAO or whoever viewed the final edit. Who is the target audience and will it shed SF in a positive light?

Do you think that an elder would give an honest assessment on camera knowing that there could be consequences for endorsing the US's actions?

[head]

Anyone who wanted to talk to us - we just pointed to the TL and told him "This is why you make the big bucks." :D

[HowardCohodas]

Do you think that an elder would give an honest assessment on camera knowing that there could be consequences for endorsing the US's actions?

If I am to believe in what Major Gant wrote in "One Tribe at a Time," and I do, then an emphatic YES.

[MN_student]

I caught this piece by accident, and I am glad I watched it, but it seemed like several times the reporter threw a jab at SF.

On the topic about village elders, I agree an interview with an elder – probably not a good idea, but I wish the piece would’ve covered a meeting with an elder or village interaction. With only 14min I suppose you get a small representation, and it will probably be the most interesting or dramatic for Hollywood’s sake.

Also I had a question about the incident at the end. The two shots were warning shots, but as far as I could tell he had a suppressor of some sort on. Would a moving truck be able to hear shots from a silenced weapon? (I honestly don't know I've never used or seen one)

I can't think of an alternative way to stop a moving vehicle quickly, so I can't say I'd do anything differently. There is no way to tell which way the truck was moving so I won't even try to imagine the situation, the bottom line is I am glad the kids are alive at the end of the piece, I also thought the kid made out pretty well for being shot in the chest (although I've never seen anything like that either)

Is there a prescribed alternative way to flag down a vehicle taught in SUT or Robin Sage?

I am not trying to be a Monday morning QB, I know that hindsight is 20/20. Just inquiring is all. I am assuming as of right now he did the best with what he had on hand and he did it within a very small window of time.

v/r
-Phill

[Leozinho]

I'm curious why the reporter did not interview the more senior members of the team?

She did. 60 Minutes chose show the interviews with those two team members for reasons that should be obvious.

[albeham]

My wife and I watched the whole thing.

I asked my kids to watch it with us.

Been out since 04, but I still got that feeling in my gut.


Good work.. No..Great works the QPs do, yes !




AL

[1stindoor]

I felt the same way about Santa Claus - and then I grew to realize it was far more complex than my perception of it all and - in reality - what I had ever imagined it to be in my limited experiences.



shhh...my junior bravo doesn't know about "Santa" yet.

[Richard]

RE: Lara Logan - Any ideas?

Personally - I think she did a credible job of letting the soldiers tell the complexity of the story without adding the normal layerings of editorial opinion.

As for the 'junior' team members speaking - who do you think makes the decisions where the proverbial 'rubber meets the road' out there...:confused:...as it has nearly always been in SF...IMO these guys came across as being capable, confident, thoughtful, dedicated, and human.

We used to have SGTs leading 100-150 man companies and SSGs/SFCs leading battalions - such is the SF world.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[Utah Bob]

I agree

And there's nothing "junior" about a junior SF team member imho.

[ZonieDiver]

Is there a prescribed alternative way to flag down a vehicle taught in SUT or Robin Sage?

We had the Jr. Engineer lie down in the middle of the road, while the rest of us hid in the bushes. :D

[ZonieDiver]

Personally - I think she did a credible job of letting the soldiers tell the complexity of the story without adding the normal layerings of editorial opinion.

As for the 'junior' team members speaking - who do you think makes the decisions where the proverbial 'rubber meets the road' out there...:confused:...as it has nearly always been in SF...IMO these guys came across as being capable, confident, thoughtful, dedicated, and human.

We used to have SGTs leading 100-150 man companies and SSGs/SFCs leading battalions - such is the SF world.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

I agree. I watched with a "civilian" and she thought it gave a great portrait of SF and what SF does. I think we may tend to "nit-pick" at things someone without the experience would miss. She had NO idea the team members who were interviewed were "junior"! She was amazed at the medic who was shot and "drove on."

It sure could have been a LOT worse, imho.

[Utah Bob]

We had the Jr. Engineer lie down in the middle of the road, while the rest of us hid in the bushes. :D

Good idea. That way they may blow a tire when they run over his demo knife.:D

[C0B2A]

At 2:32 in the video segment off the 60min website a German Shepherd runs by wearing what appears to be a molle load carrying vest. I'm sorry, but I personally think that is just awesome, purely based on my love for dogs. I have just about 0 knowledge on operating with a K9, but having a dog around for me at least would keep my spirits pretty dang high.
In Iraq we had this local dog that would follow my platoon around on patrols, always letting us know when personal were approaching. They truly are mans best friend.

[Richard]

We had the Jr. Engineer lie down in the middle of the road, while the rest of us hid in the bushes. :D

I wouldn't have wasted a good JrEngr - he used to be about the only guy on an ODA who knew how to fill out those damn supply requisition cards.

I would've used the XO...especially if he was a 2LT. ;) :D

Richard

[HowardCohodas]

It sure could have been a LOT worse, imho.

Years ago I had a tape of a Bill Cosby performance where he did a sketch titled something like "Never Challenge Worse."

Not that tape, but funny none-the-less.
You should never challenge "worse." Don't ever say, "Things couldn't get
worse." Worse is rough ... I was down to my last two hundred dollars. I
mean, not to my name, but I lost all I could sign for. And I said, "I'm
gonna win something! It can't get worse!"

I went over to the roulette wheel. And got two hundred dollars' worth of
quarter chips. Covered the table--I mean, covered the table! Red and black,
even up. I'm going to win something before I go to sleep. And the guy spun
the ball and it fell on the floor.

As with all Bill Cosby humor, IMO, there is wisdom within.

[Dragbag036]

I miss British reporting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv61DlEM43U

Not to take away from all the various discussions here, but that was some funny crap.

[armymom1228]

I was finally able to d/l and watch this piece.

I liked it, I saw it portray SF in a positive light. I would have said that even if I had not been following it on this thread and looking to criticize it. LL has been reporting on SF for at least the past 3 or 4 yrs. Her personal life aside, she has always seemed to portray SF in a positive light.

To have anyone in the MSM media portray our military as something positive is a good thing.

I did not know that ODA's had gone to 4 numbers now? 7th group, 2nd battalion is that right?

In any case, I liked it, I am just the general public and don't have the smarts or knowledge to sit and pick it apart. So I won't presume.

OTOH< that one dude's beard was ratty... geez, doesn't he know what a comb is? :D Where the heck did LL get mascara and eyeliner in the middle of....
I did find amusement in the term 'burning sensation' as opposed to it 'hurt like a mutha'.
My half ducat's worth.
AM.

[ZonieDiver]

Where the heck did LL get mascara and eyeliner in the middle of....

The team would be deficient if one of its members did not have something like that... as "trade items"! :D

[The Reaper]

I wouldn't have wasted a good JrEngr - he used to be about the only guy on an ODA who knew how to fill out those damn supply requisition cards.

I would've used the XO...especially if he was a 2LT. ;) :D

Richard

Yeah, well, 180As are usually too smart for that these days.

TR

[ZonieDiver]

I wouldn't have wasted a good JrEngr - he used to be about the only guy on an ODA who knew how to fill out those damn supply requisition cards.

I would've used the XO...especially if he was a 2LT.

Yeah, well, 180As are usually too smart for that these days.

TR

2nd LTs were usually too small to stop a truck, they'd just "thump, thump" right over them. (not a very bad idea, really). This was usually not a problem with the Jr. Engineer! :lifter

[Richard]

2nd LTs were usually too small to stop a truck, they'd just "thump, thump" right over them. (not a very bad idea, really). This was usually not a problem with the Jr. Engineer!

Yeah...but the one downside to losing the XO meant the JrEngr then had to crank the hand-crank generator for the Angry 109! :D

FWIW - you younger guys just can't appreciate the humor in that thought. ;)

Richard

[zuluzerosix]

I thought it was a decent story. The members of the ODA were able to communicate the complexities of their mission. I am sure the members of the team knew they would only be afforded a few sound bytes. I thought they did an excellent job with just the few moments they would have to communicate.

My heart broke for the QP and the civilian children. I am sure there will be enough scars to go around from that day. I make no judgment on him. That truck could have easily been filled with military aged men packing RPG's. For all we know that may have been the case the day before or after on the same road.

Who knows?

The best part of the segment was when the journalist prodded the Soldier about being shot by an Afghan he was training; he looked directly at her
with a crooked grin, and said, "Uh. Yeah-right."

I laughed so hard. Classic. Made me proud. That was a sound byte for the ages.

[Hammock]

http://freerangeinternational.com/blog/?p=2610

My morning email contained a heads up from Mullah John, who is home on R&R. 60 Minutes had broadcast a show on the American Special Forces last night and the segment was “disheartening,” to quote the good Mullah. After watching it I was left speechless – it was worse than “disheartening,” it was awful, and I mean everything about it was awful – from the questions asked by reporter Lara Logan, to the conduct of the “Quiet Professionals” both in training and in battle, the entire segment was awful and the story line non existent. It is hard to know what to say when you see stuff like this, but not knowing what to say has never stopped me before, so here it goes….

The segment was called “The Quiet Professionals” which of course is a great name for an organization which invites 60 Minutes along for a two month embed. Hit the link above to see the piece, because I doubt anyone reading this blog caught it when it aired last night on CBS, famous for journalistic fraud from the good old days of Dan Rather. But there was no fraud in this segment, unless you count the whole segment as financial fraud… I mean two months of embedding and this is the result? Thirteen minutes of Lara flirting with SF dudes? As a commenter on the CBS website noted about Lara’s performance, “It’s like listening to a child explain black holes.”

Of course the segment has all the annoying crap one associates with Special Forces – only use first names, wear sunglasses to “protect your identity,” and digitize all who do not have sunglasses on, as if the Taliban has an arm in America which is going to hunt these guys down some day. The Taliban do hunt down ANA Commandos in their home villages and kill them, but none of the ANA commandos have their faces digitized or identities hidden. Typical, but you get that from the “special folks.” The 60 Minutes crew caught three shootings on film, which are all in the segment. The first was one of the SF team leader, who was shot during a raid by one of his Afghan troops. The second shooting was of an Afghan Commando, shooting himself in the foot during another raid. The final shooting was committed by a member of the SF team who shot two children sitting in the back of a vehicle, which was approaching a village where the rest of the team was “catching an important Taliban commander.” He was shooting at an approaching vehicle with a suppressed weapon to warn it to stop… great thinking, but Lara didn’t seem very alarmed by how wrong this was, after all, the shooter was dreamy, over 6 foot tall, 200+ pounds and able to bench press twice his body weight!!!!!! But we’ll get to that and a recent shooting of an imam in Kabul last week later.

Lara was down east in Nangarhar Province last summer where she rolled out to a CNET project in an 8 MRAP convoy with the local PRT. What the hell are you going to find out rolling around on one of the three roads in Nangarhar which can support an MRAP? The fact that nine years into this mess, the PRT commander in Nangarhar still needs to drive around in an 8 MRAP convoy is the real news, not whatever CNET was up to that day. But I digress…..

Everything the “Quiet Professionals” did in this story was ridiculous, from shooting at targets down range while Afghans are standing right next to the targets, to screaming obscenities at them, calling them “fucktards,” and inflicting group punishment because they couldn’t master the “load, unload” drill, which I know from experience your average 11 year old can master in little under an hour of professional instruction. I could go through this piece, point by point, harping on quotes like wearing beards is “a mark of respect amongst the locals” – complete bullshit – but why bother? The piece speaks for itself, so let’s get back to this shooting business.

What should the guy have done when a truck load of males is approaching at “high speed?” He should have done what I do – walk out to the road with a big friendly wolf smile, hold up your hand, have them stop, and then tell them to sit tight until the Americans are done. It is that simple – the biggest weapon us Americans have in Afghanistan is a warm smile and the ability to at least say “Tsenga Ye?” (”How are you?” in Pashto). But you can’t automatically make those kinds of environmental calls unless you know the environment. And you can’t know the environment unless you are living in it 24/7.

Baba Tim, you ask, what if the truck is full of Taliban gun men? That’s what binoculars are for. Ignoring that lets say they pull up in a truck, and I’m standing right there with my flame stick at the ready – what are they going to do? How long does it take for them to unass the truck and present their weapons? How long does it take me to present mine? The SF guy clearly knew his business – you could see that on the range footage – and he has the drop on them. A truck full of bad guys is a target easily defeated by two riflemen who are in the open with weapons free and waiting for them within hand grenade range. That is not true if they stop at some distance away and deploy from the truck, which as I understand is the Taliban MO. But the truck didn’t do that – it just drove down the dirt road as fast as the dirt road allowed until the kids in the back started screaming and the crazy American popped out and started running towards them. The driver is not going to hear shots fired from a suppressed weapon, so until he sees something to make him stop the whole shooting thing seems a bit pointless.

There is one more aspect to this story which I find deeply disturbing as a military professional. The SF guy whacks a 14 year old kid dead center in the chest with his main battle rifle from less than 50 yards away, and when he runs up to the vehicle the kid pops up and starts giving him shit about it? What the hell kind of main battle rifle are we using these days? Don’t get me wrong, I was very pleased to see the child survived as was the guy who shot him and everyone else involved. But when you shoot someone in the chest with a military grade rifle then that someone is supposed to go down and stay down. Whatever cartridge, barrel length, and suppressor combination that team is using is obviously less than adequate. They should be carrying 7.62×51 mm rounds and weapons. If they can all press twice their body weight then they can handle two extra pounds of proper battle rifles and ammo. They also can probably handle the strain of carrying binoculars too – killing children is bad on morale especially when you could avoid shooting them using standard infantry techniques like making friend or foe determinations with said binoculars. Better yet they may want to consider slowing down enough to issue a proper raid order with brief backs and inspections. ….oh that’s right, these are “special” guys who have moved far beyond the standard “leg” tactics taught in Ranger school, sorry I forgot that part. You have to be a 10th degree ninja master to pull a two man covering element job by standing in the middle of the road day dreaming – us regular infantry guys just don’t know those advanced tactics.

[...]

When you live behind walls everything on the other side of those walls is a threat. When you isolate your forces from the population you are supposed to “protect,” then your forces have no ability to distinguish friend from foe, threat from normal routine, the good from the bad. Gen McChrystal can gob on all he wants about the importance of “COIN” and, “getting to know the people” blah blah blah…. it doesn’t matter because he sets the operational rules here, and under his rules no conventional American troops can leave a FOB unless they have at least four MRAPS and 16 riflemen. How are you supposed to, “protect the people” if you can only roll around in large road-bound convoys? How can you, “protect the people” if every night all your people have to be back on the big box FOB’s eating ice cream and pecan pie?

These SF guys are supposed to be the ones who know how to operate outside the big bases with the local population, but did you notice where they live? On a big box FOB, isolated and removed from their Afghan charges – which was obvious because none of them spoke a word of Dari or Pashto. My children can get through formal greetings in both Pashto and Dari and they were here just a few months – it’s just not that hard to learn these things when you live in the local environment. Those SF teams should be out here free ranging with guys like The Bot, Mullah John, Panjiwai Tim and myself. They are good troops being poorly served by commanders who keep them isolated and removed from the people they are supposed to be protecting. They will never be able to gain the situational awareness required to do real COIN if they remain confined to the Big Box FOBs. That is the real story and as usual the MSM missed it.

[Surgicalcric]

It is easy to armchair quarterback the game when you arent playing in it...

Its sad that its a former Marine who wrote this drivel...

[Richard]

It is easy to armchair quarterback the game when you arent playing in it...Its sad that its a former Marine who wrote this drivel...

His 'observations' are like those of a hog staring at a wristwatch.

Richard

[Guy]

What should the guy have done when a truck load of males is approaching at “high speed?” He should have done what I do – walk out to the road with a big friendly wolf smile, hold up your hand, have them stop, and then tell them to sit tight until the Americans are done. It is that simple – the biggest weapon us Americans have in Afghanistan is a warm smile and the ability to at least say “Tsenga Ye?” (”How are you?” in Pashto). But you can’t automatically make those kinds of environmental calls unless you know the environment. And you can’t know the environment unless you are living in it 24/7.Its quite evident, he has NEVER felt the blast of a VBIED.:eek:

Once it happens..."every fucking vehicle is a potential VBIED!":cool:

Stay safe.

[abnremf]

The comments at the end of the article have my blood boiling. I HATE arm chair quarterbacks. Especially ones that have never been shot at, blown up, or had to deal with fucking idiots that don't know how to read or write. :mad:

[Utah Bob]

Yeah...but the one downside to losing the XO meant the JrEngr then had to crank the hand-crank generator for the Angry 109! :D

FWIW - you younger guys just can't appreciate the humor in that thought. ;)

Richard

Been there. Cranked that!:D:D

[lksteve]

I wouldn't have wasted a good JrEngr - he used to be about the only guy on an ODA who knew how to fill out those damn supply requisition cards.

I would've used the XO...especially if he was a 2LT.Been there, done that, on both accounts...but in my case, I think the team sergeant would have objected...2LT XOs who've been junior engineers and have deuce and a half and 80 pac licenses and are qualified to be MACO/DACO/DZSO/air land safeties were hard to come by...the light weapons guy would have been sacrificed...