View Full Version : South Carolina Lt. Gov. Under Fire for Comparing Welfare Users to Stray Animals
Defender968
01-27-2010, 18:49
I haven't been a big fan of our Lt Gov, not because of anything he's done in public but some things he's done in private....however he's growing on me with this kind of thinking.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/27/south-carolina-andre-bauer-welfare-comments-controversy
The lieutenant governor of South Carolina is taking heat for comparing people on government assistance to "stray animals" and saying the government should stop "feeding" welfare recipients who do not meet certain requirements because "they breed."
Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer, a Republican, was arguing for fundamental changes to welfare to break the "cycle of dependency" at a town hall meeting in Fountain Inn, S.C., on Friday, when he said:
"My grandmother was not a highly educated woman, but she told me as a small child to quit feeding stray animals. You know why? Because they breed. You're facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply. ...
"They will reproduce," Bauer said, "especially ones that don't think too much further than that. And so what you've got to do is you've got to curtail that type of behavior. They don't know any better."
The remarks set off a firestorm in the Palmetto State. "Everyone should be offended at the comparison of our school children to stray animals," House Democratic Leader Harry Ott said in a statement released over the weekend. "Mr. Bauer should immediately apologize to the people of South Carolina for these remarks."
Bruce Ransom, a political science professor at Clemson University's Strom Thurmond Institute, called the comments "shocking" and said they do a disservice to the thousands of welfare recipients who are in dire need of government help.
"There are many people who legitimately need that assistance," Ransom told FoxNews.com. "He's not only saying that they (welfare recipients) are dependent, but that they're undeserving."
While Bauer raised a "legitimate argument," Ransom said, "he didn't need to compare those individuals to stray animals."
"The way he framed his points was terrible," he said.
In an interview with FoxNews.com, Bauer, a second-term lieutenant governor who is running to succeed Gov. Mark Sanford in November, said he didn't intend to offend anyone. But he acknowledged he could have found better words to convey his meaning.
"The metaphor I used was well-intended," he said, "Will I use it again? No. Do I wish I had used a better one? You betcha I do."
Bauer has called for welfare recipients to receive mandatory drug tests and to attend parent-teacher conferences if they have children in school. Parents whose children benefit from subsidized school lunches should stop receiving government assistance if they fail to attend such meetings, he says.
The lieutenant governor said he intended in his remarks to stress the need to "break cycles of dependency." He said he was approached afterward by a black minister who asked him to he deliver the same speech at his church.
"He said 'you are right on the money,'" Bauer told FoxNews.com. "This was a diverse crowd and nobody there had a problem with the message.
"We've got to really look at every dollar we're spending. A hand-out is basically relief without any demand for change," he said.
Bauer also addressed public criticism of his remarks in a posting on his Facebook page Saturday.
"At a forum this week, I spoke out in favor of finding ways to break the government's cycle of handouts and dependency," Bauer wrote. "I believe government is 'breeding a culture of dependency' which has grown out of control, and frankly, amounts to little more than socialism, paid for by hard-working, tax-paying families."
"I feel strongly that we can and should help our neighbors who are truly needy," he added, "However, there's a big difference between being truly needy and truly lazy."
Bauer wrote that he will continue to push for such requirements even if they are perceived as "politically incorrect" by the media.
The U.S. Census Bureau reports that roughly 15 percent of South Carolinians live below the poverty line. As of October 2009, about 20,648 South Carolina families were listed as welfare recipients -- totaling $3,979,701 in government assistance, according to the South Carolina's Department of Social Services. That figure is an increase from 2008, when 16,382 were listed as receiving cash assistance from the government.
The Associated Press reported that Bauer, who comes from working-class roots and who grew up in a single-parent household, benefited from subsidized school lunches himself.
Bauer was sworn in as South Carolina's lieutenant governor in 2003 after having served in the state Senate for four years.
Snaquebite
01-27-2010, 19:02
Bauer has called for welfare recipients to receive mandatory drug tests
I'd be willing to be that the money that the state pays for the tests will be less than the money they pay to the ones on drugs and actually save them money.
Will it happen? Probably not.
The funny/sad fact is, most of the recipients don't even have a clue who he is or that something possibly derogatory was said about them....i mean one, it was in a town hall meeting, two it's in the news. Something they typically don't do. If it's not on MTV/VH1/BET, TMZ, etc... they miss it.
I agree about the fact that parent(s) should be made to attend PTC/PTA meetings if their children are receiving free or reduced meals. Kids dont make the cut, the parents get cut from welfare too. The parents should also be subject to drug testing. Pop hot, you get maybe one more chance, the next time you will have a 5 year wait period or something before receiving welfare again.
Im not a math person, but $4 million divided by 21k people = $190.9989809. Am i missing it?
The Reaper
01-27-2010, 21:11
I agree.
He insulted stray animals who have no ability to think or to restrain themselves from procreating under inappropriate circumstances.
Shame on him.
TR
Snaquebite
01-28-2010, 08:23
I agree.
He insulted stray animals who have no ability to think or to restrain themselves from procreating under inappropriate circumstances.
Shame on him.
TR
Excellent observation....:D
Yet another political windsock wavering in the hot winds of whimsical voter sensitivity and making headlines on a slow news day...SSDD.
And so it goes...
Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin
So... was his key mistake publicly acknowledging the American welfare state or acknowledging that free shit attracts stray dogs?
...key mistake...
Opening his mouth and speaking in a forum which offered no opportunities for any sort of waffle-bility - a rookie mistake for a {insert adjective of choice} of his stature.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
greenberetTFS
01-28-2010, 16:52
I agree.
He insulted stray animals who have no ability to think or to restrain themselves from procreating under inappropriate circumstances.
Shame on him.
TR
Absolutely...........;)
Big Teddy :munchin
I don't understand what all the hoopla is about. He only said what most of us think. Welfare is a vicious cycle, it produces more people to live off the government. Like all the other systems that the wonderful Roosevelt put into place, its needs to be reformed. The government needs something in return from the receipent who is receiving welfare benefits. It needs to teach self reliance. Churches who have a welfare system do that, why can't the government. I hate lazy, unmotivated, feel like they are entitled to something people. They are worthless and a sore to our society.
The emperors new clothes...
...he simply identified that the emperors was naked. In todays society you aren't allowed to 'out the emperor'
I don't understand what all the hoopla is about. He only said what most of us think.
<<SNIP>>
I hate lazy, unmotivated, feel like they are entitled to something people. They are worthless and a sore to our society.Regardless of what one may think of Americans who receive entitlements, these Americans can still vote.
Is calling potential voters names and comparing them to animals a good political tactic?
Mr. Bauer made a choice to place his personal views ahead of good judgment. So instead of discussing the propriety of welfare reform, the discussion is about his choice of words.
Is that really the type of politician one wants to support? What happens when Mr. Bauer indulges his personal views and one doesn't agree with what he says?
Surgicalcric
01-29-2010, 14:33
...Is calling potential voters names and comparing them to animals a good political tactic?
So then he should say whats politically expedient instead of stating things as they are or stating how he truly feels? I would rather politicians say whats on their mind(s) as well as on many of ours. Not a big fan of my Lt Gov, however he hit the nail on the head.
The federal govt, as well as state govt needs to stop giving to those who WONT do for themselves.
Welfare should be ceased until it can be reformed to help those in need instead of those in want.
So then he should say whats politically expedient instead of stating things as they are or stating how he truly feels? I would rather politicians say whats on their mind(s) as well as on many of ours. Surgicalcric--
As your comment points out, it will be up to each voter to answer the question for himself.
In my opinion, there does not have to be a distinction between a politician saying what is politically expedient and what reflects his personal views. The two are not mutually exclusive categories.
In this case, the controversy Mr. Bauer decided to start is receiving national attention. Democrats are pointing at Mr. Bauer as the epitome of the Republican Party. And, at least for now, lost in the din is a pretty good argument for welfare reform.
All for what? Unintentionally, the Fox News report provides a telling insight into Mr. Bauer's way of thinking. He said:My grandmother was not a highly educated woman, but she told me as a small child to quit feeding stray animals. You know why? Because they breed. You're facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply. ...What this statement says is that, as an educated adult with a career in public service and access to data and studies on welfare and welfare recipients, Mr. Bauer's policy analysis centers around what he heard as a "small child" from his grandmother who "was not a highly educated woman." IMO, this statement does not inspire confidence in the man's expertise.
Then he offered this ironic remark.They will reproduce especially ones that don't think too much further than that. And so what you've got to do is you've got to curtail that type of behavior. They don't know any better.This comment raises immediately the question: Who are "they" and what don't they know? Those who agree with Mr. Bauer are quick to conclude that "they" are the malingerers who stay on the dole and live beyond their means by having more children. Yet, consider the following piece of information.
The Associated Press reported that Bauer, who comes from working-class roots and who grew up in a single-parent household, benefited from subsidized school lunches himself.Since Mr. Bauer is the one who raised the issue of his family history by referencing his grandmother, it is not an idle exercise to re-think who he meant when he said "they." Are "they" just today's malingerers or do "they" also include his parents who, by their choices, placed Mr. Bauer in the position of being raised in a single parent home and of needing public assistance to have enough to eat at school? While neither of these facts are inherently shameful, it seems that Mr. Bauer may not agree. One is inclined to wonder why.
Surgicalcric
01-29-2010, 18:23
...In my opinion, there does not have to be a distinction between a politician saying what is politically expedient and what reflects his personal views. The two are not mutually exclusive categories.
While not mutually exclusive in theory, they are in practice more often than not.
...In this case, the controversy Mr. Bauer decided to start is receiving national attention. Democrats are pointing at Mr. Bauer as the epitome of the Republican Party. And, at least for now, lost in the din is a pretty good argument for welfare reform...
He didnt start the issue, he is just bringing it to the forefront.
Do you honestly believe someone using welfare, with no desire to get off the Govt's tit, is going to vote for someone who wants to eliminate the chance of them making a living without working in the first place?
When was the last time ANYONE was serious about welfare reform? Welfare is nothing more than a tool used by the left to enslave voters, much like immigration.
...He said:What this statement says is that, as an educated adult with a career in public service and access to data and studies on welfare and welfare recipients, Mr. Bauer's policy analysis centers around what he heard as a "small child" from his grandmother who "was not a highly educated woman." IMO, this statement does not inspire confidence in the man's expertise....
Why? Surely you are not suggesting it necessary for a person to be "highly educated" to have a formed opinion or make accurate comparisons or be intelligent? He was speaking in terms the crowd could understand and appreciate and associate with.
...Then he offered this ironic remark.This comment raises immediately the question: Who are "they" and what don't they know?
"They", and I think you know who "they" is referring to, are the people having children they cant feed -one after the other without aid, eating on food stamps, living in section 8/subsidized housing, draw unemployment for years/generations, and/or put kids in govt daycare when they have no job. Yet they always seem to find the money to drive an Escalade, Tahoe, BMW, Benz, or (insert other pricey car/truck here), have a thousand dollar stereo or or a plasma screen TV, buy/sell drugs, go clubbing, etc...
However, I disagree with his idea that "they" dont know better. They know as long as they continue to doff off kids the govt will take care of them and thereby perpetuate the cycle...
And as long as the system pays for the reelection of politicians welfare will remain reform-less and the govt will continue to take from what I earn and give to those who would gladly not earn a thing.
I just enjoy watching the freak show that we refer to as an 'enlightened' society. We claim to want straight talk from our politicians, yet some how everyone acts shocked when a politician says something offensive...
We want to cut taxes, yet can't seem to get rid of wasteful government spending. People talk about welfare reform, yet find it offensive to suggest that someone go out and get a job. Politicians preach or legal reform, yet continue to pass legislation that leaves loopholes for more frivolous lawsuits.
Politicians are turds and there is one universal constant when dealing with turds... even if you spit shine a turd with a truck full of kiwi its still just a turd.
The Associated Press reported that Bauer, who comes from working-class roots and who grew up in a single-parent household, benefited from subsidized school lunches himself.
The problem is -- as usual -- that sound bites appeal. Everyone has seen an example of welfare abuse. Less people notice or acknowledge the times the help is needed, used properly and then progressed out of the situation. Bauer benefited from a form of welfare. As a politician, he is supposed to be competent at rhetoric. He had a great opportunity to say something intelligent about what works and what does not.
Also, as someone who adopted 3 stray dogs and had them neutered, I find the reference unkind to animals. There are solutions that do not require starvation of humans or animals. And Teddy -- that is some humor thrown in to lighten the post. ;)
I bet if he would have made the analogy of once you start giving free handouts their incentive becomes one of coming back for more handouts - instead of the breeding remark he made - there would not have been much - if any - of an uproar. Guy's not a very astute politican in my book and has now shown the aptitude to take his rightful place among the many dimly colored marionettes of Madame Pelosi's Fen of Waxen Polecats. :rolleyes:
Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin
He didnt start the issue, he is just bringing it to the forefront.I agree that Mr. Bauer did not start this issue. Entitlement reform has been a contentious issue since the days of British colonial America.* The controversy to which I referred is the bruhaha over Mr. Bauer's comparison of Americans to animals.
A Greenville News editorial, available here (http://www.greenvilleonline.com/print/article/20100127/OPINION/1270348/Bauer-creates-his-own-mess), exemplifies the nature of this controversy.The lieutenant governor’s comments in Fountain Inn were harsh and jolting. The statements should not come from the lips of a serious candidate for governor of South Carolina. At best they were an exceptionally careless use of words to describe the bleak circumstances that face many innocent children and even many innocent adults. At worst they were demagogic fuel intended for a friendly audience.Do you honestly believe someone using welfare, with no desire to get off the Govt's tit, is going to vote for someone who wants to eliminate the chance of them making a living without working in the first place?I think that the chances of a candidate receiving such votes, how ever narrow the odds may be, are even slimmer if that candidate berates members of that cohort using Malthusian rhetoric. Moreover, a candidate who claims to be in favor of reform--a goal that will likely need bipartisan support and compromise if it is to be achieved--is not exactly sending a message saying "I'm the man for that job" if he trots out appeals to "common sense" along with tired cliches of "babies having babies" and "political correctness." (Bluntly, I doubt that he understands that it isn't about political correctness; it is about re-establishing civility in American political life.)Why? Surely you are not suggesting it necessary for a person to be "highly educated" to have a formed opinion or make accurate comparisons or be intelligent? He was speaking in terms the crowd could understand and appreciate and associate with.I absolutely am not suggesting either of the conclusions you drew. The utility of a formed opinion and the accuracy of a comparison are demonstrated by their successful application. Useful knowledge is where you find it.
To be clear, I was not questioning anyone's intelligence, formed opinions, or comparisons, but Mr. Bauer's. You suggest that he knew his audience and addressed them accordingly. I am suggesting that his questionable intelligence allowed his sense of the moment to impinged upon his comprehension of the situation.
Unless he's been completely disconnected from all news sources, he probably had some understanding that:
As 98G pointed, "The problem is -- as usual -- that sound bites appeal."
The name of the game in electoral politics since the 1990s has been "Gotcha."
The national media are keenly focused on state politics since last year's gubernatorial elections in Virginia and New Jersey.
The national media are also focused on South Carolina politics since Representative Wilson's outburst. This focus increased after two Republicans wrote a controversial public letter (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/20/south-carolina-republican-leaders-apologize-jewish-comment/).
Since the special elections in New York and Massachusetts, it is understood by all that every election everywhere is in play.
Populist rhetoric is in vogue these days. Yet many who have sought to employ it have earned criticism--fair or not--for demagoguery.
So, Mr. Bauer has a spectacular kernel for a speech that can thrust him into the national spotlight. He has a chance to establish himself as a conservative reformer, passionate in his beliefs, and temperate in his judgments. He has the opportunity to show that he's informed not just by his schooling but also by the wisdom imparted upon him by his grandmother. He probably knows that he can make this speech with the right sound bite (like "culture of dependence"):cool:.
Instead, he decides to insert both feet into his mouth waist deep."They", and I think you know who "they" is referring to....I respectfully ask you to look at the following comment from his speech again.My grandmother was not a highly educated woman, but she told me as a small child to quit feeding stray animals. You know why? Because they breed. You're facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply. They will reproduce, especially ones that don't think too much further than that. And so what you've got to do is you've got to curtail that type of behavior. They don't know any better.In this passage are "they" are:
stray animals, and/or
people with "an ample food supply," and/or
people and stray animals that reproduce, and/or
"ones that don't think too much further than that"
Mr. Bauer was all over the place with his pronoun, so wondering who his "they" are remains subject to differing interpretations.
That is, unless one goes to Politico.com where he gives an indication as to who "they" are not. Source is here (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31996.html). YMMV.
__________________________________
* The issue is discussed in Gary B. Nash, The Urban Crucible: The Northern Seaports and the Origins of the American Revolution, abridged edition (ISBN-10 0674930592).
Surgicalcric
01-30-2010, 00:12
...Mr. Bauer was all over the place with his pronoun, so wondering who his "they" are remains subject to differing interpretations...
Gotcha...
I misread you and thought you were headed in a different direction with your question about his pronoun.
I agree he could have chosen a better way to express the problems we have with the welfare state. However I find little fault in the analogy itself.
Crip
armymom1228
01-30-2010, 00:18
Gotcha...
I agree he could have chosen a better way to say it. Then again I believe his analogy to be fairly accurate, for SC.
Crip
People like him leave me deeply ashamed to be South Carolinian.
I believe his statement to be racist in inference. Not all of us think the way he does.. I found him offensive and I don't have a politically correct bone in my body.
Nor am a I tree hugging, left leaning liberal by any means. He shows his lack of class and education in his words. God only knows what he says in private, I bet he even has his own set of 'sheets' as my gramma would have said.
Surgicalcric
01-30-2010, 00:41
...I believe his statement to be racist in inference...
Cause obviously there arent any "white" people abusing the system... :rolleyes:
Give me a break...
You cant swing a dead cat in the Greenville Dept of Soc Svcs office without hitting one from every race and creed trying to get a hand out.
I just wish that hand out came with a piss test and a few other stipulations.
Crip
armymom1228
01-30-2010, 01:02
With all due respect Crip, Mr Bauer has stated he meant AA's..
Having grown up and still having family in SC, granted its the Low Country, rather than Up, I am well aware of what certain inferences mean. He can imply and beat around the bush all he wants. I guess it is all in the perception.
A rhetorical question, would you punish the child for the parents behavior and deny the child shelter and food? Look up the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. It is an interesting read.
AM
Gotcha...
I misread you and thought you were headed in a different direction with your question about his pronoun.
I agree he could have chosen a better way to express the problems we have with the welfare state. However I find little fault in the analogy itself.
CripCrip--
To be clear, I wonder about who "they" are because Mr. Bauer himself was all over the map. The historian in me cannot help but focus on how he presented the teachings of his grandmother in a speech about welfare reform in which he makes hostile statements centered around subsidized school lunches and their impact on test scores when he himself subsidized received school lunches. To me, these kinds of comments suggest that Mr. Bauer is ambivalent about his childhood and even one of his parents.
People like him leave me deeply ashamed to be South Carolinian.
I believe his statement to be racist in inference. Not all of us think the way he does.. I found him offensive and I don't have a politically correct bone in my body.
Nor am a I tree hugging, left leaning liberal by any means. He shows his lack of class and education in his words. God only knows what he says in private, I bet he even has his own set of 'sheets' as my gramma would have said.FWIW, I have a sense that Mr. Bauer, because of his comments he made to Politico.com is well aware that his statement activated perceptions of racial difference. Specifically, he said:I never saw it coming, but it is what it is. Clearly I was taken out of context. Nobody in that meeting or any other meeting where I’ve said that before had any problem with it. In fact, I had a black minister at that meeting and he came up to me afterwards and asked if I could come speak to his congregation.Why would he have mentioned the minister's race if race were not an issue in his speech?
What did Mr. Bauer hope to validate when he chose to say "black minister" that he could not have validated by just saying "minister"?
Defender968
01-30-2010, 09:54
A rhetorical question, would you punish the child for the parents behavior and deny the child shelter and food? Look up the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. It is an interesting read.
AM
No you don't punish the child, but you also don't reward the parent for more irresponsible behavior, ie having more kids. If they can't feed the ones they have maybe they shouldn't be having any more, and maybe they should lose the ones they have.
The reality is the welfare system is broken and in this economic environment it should be very, very high on the list of places to save money.
My personal take on it, there should be lots of conditions placed upon those on public assistance, drug testing, mandatory birth control, parenting classes, nutrition classes, vocational education requirements, community service requirements, and they should not be allowed to vote. If you can't handle your own affairs you shouldn't get to have a say in those of this nation. Want a voice in how things get done, get your life together and become self sufficient then you get to have a say, until then focus on the near rocks.
Just my .02
My personal take on it,...
Astounding...simply.
Richard