WTB inexpensive scope

[mike-munich]

Gentlemen,

I've searched the forum already for infomation about rifle scopes. I did find a few things, although that didn't answer my questions.

I've read about $2000+ rifle scopes, but unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough for that.

I own a H&K SL8 (G36 conversion) with the civillian barrel. So far I have used a NC Star 3-12x50 scope, MIL Dot with illuminated reticle. Somehow, after 4 or 5 years of regular (weekly) use (maybe 10.000 rounds), the reticle became lose after the rifle tipped over to the side (not a big drop, it just fell over). The sight was off 7 centimeters to the left at 100 meters. I zeroed it back in and so far it's accurate.

I don't trust that scope anymore. I really liked the magnification and the MIL dot reticle + illumination, also the price on it was very good back then (under $300).

Do you have any suggestion for an "inexpensive", yet sturdy scope ? I know that a Schmid and Bender, or a Leupold, will do the job probably better, unfortunately they are about a month salary. I would consider a used one as well.

I shoot ~150-200 rounds per month, most of the time on a 100m, sometimes on a 300m military range.

Thanks in advance for your input.

v/r
Mike

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

Mike, I shoot a lot of scope time with three different (4) scopes. Listed inexpensive to expensive (For Me).
1. least expensive-----> TASCO World Class, 3 x 9,x 40 with Mil Dot, Had without problems on a rifle for 12 years.
2 Next (About 200 buck) BSA 3x16 x 42, lighted retical, mildot, 6 years on a 30-06 no problems.
3. Leatherwood M-600 ART on an 8mm Mauser 4 years no problems. 3x9 x 40 (about 300).
4. Leatherwood M-1200 on a 308 Semi 3x 24 x 50>3 years.
This one is too big for the rifle and I'm thinking of Going to the M-1000.
M-1200 Costs 550.00 Near my upper limit.
The Leatherwoods are Automatic Ranging Telescopes and will put Cross hairs on target out to the end of their ranging capabilities.

[mike-munich]

4. Leatherwood M-1200 on a 308 Semi 3x 24 x 50>3 years.
This one is too big for the rifle and I'm thinking of Going to the M-1000.
M-1200 Costs 550.00 Near my upper limit.

Blitzzz,

thank you for the information. I've looked, seems like NC Star bought TASCO. I'm not sure if I should get one of those scopes again...

If you are considering the M-1000 for yourself, would you let go the M-1200 ? Is it any good on 100 meter distances ? Brand new it's a bit stiff pricewise, but like I said, I wouldn't mind a used one that has been well treated.
Sizewise it shouldn't be much different from my NC Star, right ?

Mike

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

Blitzzz,

thank you for the information. I've looked, seems like NC Star bought TASCO. I'm not sure if I should get one of those scopes again...

If you are considering the M-1000 for yourself, would you let go the M-1200 ? Is it any good on 100 meter distances ? Brand new it's a bit stiff pricewise, but like I said, I wouldn't mind a used one that has been well treated.
Sizewise it shouldn't be much different from my NC Star, right ?

MikeThis one hasn't been used at all. It's not even zeroed to the gun yet. I hadn't had time to do that/ I've been spending more tine on the other rifles.
I'll trade you the M-1200 for a M-1000. I don't know how that might fit budgets. The Leatherwood is a phenom.. I used the Art 1 and then the ARTll for 14 years as a sniper and swear by them. Fastest target acquisition of anything out there. Think about it..I've got time, I'll just put this on back in the box.


Shooting ANART scope at a 100 shouldn't be a problem when it's good for 1200 meters shots. With the ART one zeros at 300 meters and the ranging works Xhairs on out to 1200 meters. Shooting below the 300 meter line will require Hold under. This is made easy by the stadia line above and below the Xhair. 150 was directly on the bottom stadia.

[The Reaper]

If it is a work gun, how much is your life worth?

If it is for a hunting weapon, how much is that trophy animal worth?

If it is a plinker, and not for training, get whatever you want.

I would go to a good optics web site, like SWFA, and look at the Leupolds.

I am not a fan of the ARTs, but opinions vary.

Or you could just ship enough beer here, and we would send you one. Eventually. Kind of like an installment plan. For SF guys.

TR

[craigepo]

I'm with Reaper on this one: if you are going to use the scope for anything worthwhile, buy something good.
I've had good luck with Leopold. I have a boone and crockett reticle on a custom .308 that does real well (laid the smack down on a 6X6 elk last fall). A friend has one of the Leopold varmint hunter reticles on a 7mm ultra---that gun is a beast at 700 meters.(I know, "why a varmint hunter reticle on a 7mm ultra", he shoots some pretty crazy distance with the gun. Reloads his own stuff).

Also, there's always the chance that the bad guys might show up at your house.

[Peregrino]

Leupold VX-III or VX-II with a duplex reticle. Decent scope, decent quality, and a reasonable price. SWFA or Optics Planet as a source. Otherwise you will eventually be disappointed. Burris, Bushnell, and Weaver all have relatively good tactical scopes in the $700.00 range. I checked all of them out at SHOT - shop around for best prices. They aren't Leupold and Leupold isn't NightForce, Zeiss, S&B, Swarovski, etc; however, they appear to be decent values for an entry level tactical scope. If you insist on cheap there's always Millet (tactical). Not sure I could stoop to mentioning Leapers - on par with NC Star in my opinion. :rolleyes: Personally, I'm sticking with Leupold until I can afford something better.

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

You guys always give grief over the ARTs. I've just never had any problems with any of the ones I've used. Hit where I cranked them. Oranges at 300 meters, Man sized silhouettes. at 1150 and 1250. I doubt I'd have done it with Iron sights.

[mike-munich]

Blitzzz,

Shooting below the 300 meter line will require Hold under. This is made easy by the stadia line above and below the Xhair. 150 was directly on the bottom stadia.
OK, thanks. That's what I wanted to know. Our range is only 100 meters and that's where I shoot most of the time.

TR,
If it is a work gun, how much is your life worth?

I hear you. That's why I want something dependable, but not necessarily in the $2000 price range like the Leupold VX-3. I was hoping there were less expensive scopes that I can trust (with my life, if I have to).

Or you could just ship enough beer here, and we would send you one. Eventually. Kind of like an installment plan. For SF guys.
How much beer are we talking here ? Hey, don't forget, I worked with SF in Tölz and I know how much you guys can drink. That would be a $2000 Leupold for $4000 worth of beer...:(

Also, there's always the chance that the bad guys might show up at your house
There you go. That's why I want a reliable scope. If it fails on the range no problem, but it shouldn't fail me when I really need it. One never knows... Better safe than sorry.
Leupold VX-III or VX-II with a duplex reticle. Decent scope, decent quality, and a reasonable price
I'm just looking at that... Seems like there are a few used ones around that might fit my budget.
If you insist on cheap
Cheap isn't exactly what I'm looking for, budget-priced would be it. I had a "cheap" NC Star, and that failed me. I don't want that to happen again.

It's tough decision... Thank you for all your intel gentlemen, I highly appreciate it.

MM

[The Reaper]

I don't know where you are shopping, but a Leupold 3.5-10x VX-III is normally $400 or so here.

If you are being charged $2000, I will sell you one at half-price, and drink up the profit.

TR

[Paslode]

Whatever you do don't buy a Super Sniper (or other cheap scope), I did against the advice of TR and Crew and it was a complete waste of money.

I have a VX-III 4.5.x14x40 LR that works great and I think I picked it up for $340. I sold the Super Sniper and pick up a Leupold Mark 4 Tactical 4.5x14x40 for $650 off another board.

The only reason I wouldn't buy another VX-III is that I like having the target knobs and Mil-Dots. Other than the knobs both are great scopes.

Blitzz got me curious about the Leatherwood and it's is still on my shopping list.

Gentlemen,

I've searched the forum already for infomation about rifle scopes. I did find a few things, although that didn't answer my questions.

I've read about $2000+ rifle scopes, but unfortunately my pockets are not deep enough for that.

I own a H&K SL8 (G36 conversion) with the civillian barrel. So far I have used a NC Star 3-12x50 scope, MIL Dot with illuminated reticle. Somehow, after 4 or 5 years of regular (weekly) use (maybe 10.000 rounds), the reticle became lose after the rifle tipped over to the side (not a big drop, it just fell over). The sight was off 7 centimeters to the left at 100 meters. I zeroed it back in and so far it's accurate.

I don't trust that scope anymore. I really liked the magnification and the MIL dot reticle + illumination, also the price on it was very good back then (under $300).

Do you have any suggestion for an "inexpensive", yet sturdy scope ? I know that a Schmid and Bender, or a Leupold, will do the job probably better, unfortunately they are about a month salary. I would consider a used one as well.

I shoot ~150-200 rounds per month, most of the time on a 100m, sometimes on a 300m military range.

Thanks in advance for your input.

v/r
Mike

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

a quick search for the Leupold 3.5-10x VX-III resulted is 597.00 on one site claiming the cheapest, others were 8 and 9 hundred bucks.

[mike-munich]

I don't know where you are shopping, but a Leupold 3.5-10x VX-III is normally $400 or so here.

If you are being charged $2000, I will sell you one at half-price, and drink up the profit.

TR

TR, I just looked again. The cheapest place around here has it for US$1300

http://www.hunters-point.de/index.php/Kategorien/vmchk/Zielfernrohre/Zielfernrohr-Leupold-VX-III-35-10x50mm.html

I know that they are alot cheaper in the US (like everything else, my BMW 323Ci I used to have was just as expensive as the M3 BMW at the Wichita, KS. dealership...). That's why I buy my stuff in the US of A. The Germans get 42% income tax from me, 19% sales tax and about $7.50/gallon for my fuel. I spend the remaining money somewhere else...:cool:

I'm currently looking into the "used scopes" section of various websites and forums.

Thanks again gentlemen !

P.S. @Paslode:Whatever you do don't buy a Super Sniper (or other cheap scope), Wilco ! ;)

[The Reaper]

a quick search for the Leupold 3.5-10x VX-III resulted is 597.00 on one site claiming the cheapest, others were 8 and 9 hundred bucks.

$479.95 at SWFA.

http://swfa.com/Leupold-35-10x40-VX-3-Riflescope-P12647.aspx

Have it shipped to a buddy, take it home after your next visit.

TR

[mojaveman]

A year or so ago I decided that I wanted to get into long range shooting but didn't want to spend a lot of money in the begining so I bought a Weaver 10X40 Mildot tactical scope for $400.00 So far I've been impressed with it. If I get better and decide to spend more money I'll take the advice of some of the guys here and go with either a Leupold or another high quality brand.

I don't shoot a few hundred meters though, I live near the desert where there is unlimited range.

[alright4u]

Blitzzz,

thank you for the information. I've looked, seems like NC Star bought TASCO. I'm not sure if I should get one of those scopes again...

If you are considering the M-1000 for yourself, would you let go the M-1200 ? Is it any good on 100 meter distances ? Brand new it's a bit stiff pricewise, but like I said, I wouldn't mind a used one that has been well treated.
Sizewise it shouldn't be much different from my NC Star, right ?

Mike

I went to the range with Dave. I guarantee you Blitz knows shooting. Take his advise. None of us had that training in the 60's.

[mike-munich]

I went to the range with Dave. I guarantee you Blitz knows shooting. Take his advise. None of us had that training in the 60's.

Roger that!

Have it shipped to a buddy, take it home after your next visit.


TR, thanks for the lead! Holy moly, THAT is a good price. I'll be in TX in May anyway, I can have it shipped to my kinfolk there. I also have an old MP buddy with an APO address here.

[itek01i]

I am looing at the Leupold VX-II 3-9x50 to mount onto an AR-15. I am torn between the x40 and the x50. Is there a tangible low light difference between the two? Thanks.

[The Reaper]

I am looing at the Leupold VX-II 3-9x50 to mount onto an AR-15. I am torn between the x40 and the x50. Is there a tangible low light difference between the two? Thanks.

IMHO, not really.

It will probably require the scope to be mounted higher though, and cost more.

TR

[craigepo]

I am looing at the Leupold VX-II 3-9x50 to mount onto an AR-15. I am torn between the x40 and the x50. Is there a tangible low light difference between the two? Thanks.

You might go pull the specs(if there are any) as to low-light ability. I had to pass on a shot a HUGE buck in November, as I couldn't make the antlers out(my buddy was about 40 yards from the buck, had just tagged-out, and said he didn't think he could get his hands around the base of the buck's rack). It was really, really dark. I was looking through the leupold 4-12X40. If that scope would have been a smidge better, I would have a monster buck on my wall(or if my friend and I would have had commo). I wish I would have paid the extra money now

[The Reaper]

You might go pull the specs(if there are any) as to low-light ability. I had to pass on a shot a HUGE buck in November, as I couldn't make the antlers out(my buddy was about 40 yards from the buck, had just tagged-out, and said he didn't think he could get his hands around the base of the buck's rack). It was really, really dark. I was looking through the leupold 4-12X40. If that scope would have been a smidge better, I would have a monster buck on my wall(or if my friend and I would have had commo). I wish I would have paid the extra money now

Did you have it on the 4x setting?

TR

[craigepo]

I tried everything from 4X to 14X. It was dark enough that I was walking through the same field the buck was in, rifle up, trying to identify. Buck didn't spot me until I was approximately 100 meters away. Just couldn't get it done.
That one instance is the only knock I have against Leupold scopes. I'm not sure what brands might gather light better, but I would loved to have had one at that moment

[The Reaper]

Leupold will give you all the light any other optic in that price range will.

A lower mag scope will transmit more light, all other things being equal. A 3.5-10x or lower might have gotten you a shot.

Best way to test scopes for that is to put several of them up side by side around dusk and try to read something, like an eye chart at a distance as the light fades.

The Nightforce is about the best I can afford. I have heard that the high end Zeiss, Swarovski, and S&B Euro glass is in another class.

TR

[mark46th]

I have a Leupold 3-9X40 on my Rem 700VLS in .308 and a Nikon 3-9X40 on my Winchester Model 70 in .270. I use them to hunt wild pigs, both have been good to me.

[mojaveman]

I have heard that the high end Zeiss, Swarovski, and S&B Euro glass is in another class. TR[/QUOTE]

Very true.

A close friend of mine has a pair of Zeiss 10X Binoculars that he uses for scouting deer. He let me look through them one time and I couldn't put them down. You can really see some stuff with that expensive European glass. I'd buy a pair if they didn't cost so much.

[TrapLine]

Very true.

A close friend of mine has a pair of Zeiss 10X Binoculars that he uses for scouting deer. He let me try them one time and I couldn't put them down. You can really see some sh/t with that expensive European glass. I'd buy a pair if they didn't cost so much.

I had a similar experience. I thought the Leupold 3-9x40 on my Model 70 was great until I looked through my uncle's Leica 3.5-14x42 one evening after a hunt. At least with my shooting skills, the optics are usually not the limiting factor:o.

[Buffalobob]

As one gets older and about at 45, the night vision begins to go. This gets progressively worse with age. Glare from other vehicles at night is a good indication that it is pretty far gone. Run a google search on night vision and aging.

Night vision is a very individual thing and some few people have truly remarkable night vision and some have truly poor night vision to start with.

Luepold is marketing their new V3 as having good low light capability because they transmit a lot of blue and green light. I suspect that this is just a marketing ploy because they had to compete for a military contract and the military targets typically come in shades of green so they developed an optical coating for green. Deer and elk on the other hand come in shades of red/brown. If a scope does not transmit the light in the color spectrum from the deer you will not see the deer. I like Lueppys and would not hesitate to buy one but it might not cure your problem

I pretty much use 56 mm objective Night forces to condense down the maximum amount of light rays into a small bundle for my eyes which are getting pretty bad in low light. I do not know exactly how dark it was for you but I know what I can do with a 56mm NF iin a very similar situation.

The question is how much money is it worth to never have that happen again.

[craigepo]

Hmmm. Good question BB
I have the leupold on a custom 308(and have leupold on other rifles as well). The odds that I will use it to shoot at a bad guy are pretty low. However, the odds that I will use the scope to check out game BMNT and EENT are 100%.

I will probably wind up buying something that will do a little better in those BMNT and EENT times(seems like lots of game like to move then).

Don't know what brand I'll buy, but it will have to be at least as durable as the leupold, variable power, better light gathering, and have a really good ranging reticle. I like the boone and crockett reticle on the leupold(as opposed to the old mil-dot system), so will probably get something akin to that. Anybody have any good ideas, let me know.

Damnit, I've followed this thread until I've talked myself into spending more money.

[Buffalobob]

Hensoldt makes a 72mm scope and if I ever build another extreme long range rifle I will put it on; or, if my eyes get too bad and the 56mm NF becomes problematic I might get one and swap some scopes around. Its a lot of money to spend but costs of hunting licenses alone for me is about $ 1K-2K per year. When it is time to shoot you just gotta be able to see enough to pull the trigger.

[SLVGW360]

Great discussion,

I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 on my personal .30-06. I wish I had gotten the 4200 with the target turrets...oh well. I got it for $200 because my brother had "connection" with one of the daughters of the company. Otherwise I think they are in the $350 - $400 range.

For work, I am replacing some real pieces of crap that we had on our issued rifles (.308) with the Leupold Mark 2 scopes. I have shot three different ones so far (~ 600 rounds). Our guns tend to get beat up because of the rough roads we are on. These scopes and Badger bases/rings have done the trick so far. The company says that these scopes meet the same testing requirements as the Mark 4s. We haven't had any issues with hard use.

On the high end, I have invested in Swarovski spotting scopes and binoculars. Glass is very important in our line of work and I am now a convert to the idea of buying as high a quality as you can afford. I had to work the budget hard even when times were better 4 or 5 years ago. We use them for everyday wildlife work, yearly bighorn sheep counts and law enforcement work. I can say that these have already paid for themselves just in the numbers of sheep we can actually see. This was proved in a side-by-side live test with lesser glass. I could make out rams, ewes and lambs with the Swarovski and couldn't even see the animals with the old scopes.:lifter

For what it is worth.

RB

[craigepo]

Since I have now decided to upgrade one of my scopes, I was snooping around and came across the attached link. It seemed like a decent primer on scope stuff.


http://www.opticsplanet.net/how-to-choose-riflescope.html

[Buffalobob]

I like Optics planet and buy stuff from them but I do hunt a certain way and certain things are really important to my methods,

Here is an important paragraph in the referenced link for a person who specializes in shooting animals at long range

To quote Richard---Its like a hog staring at a watch.

There is an critical piece of truth discarded as trash.

Let's talk about objective lens sizes. 40 to 44mm is pretty standard on a medium variable rifle scope. It's trendy these days to have large objective lenses of 50, 56, or even 75mm in some cases. In most cases, these are unwarranted, and the largest ones are laughable. Large objective lenses will only transmit more useable light than smaller ones if they are set at their highest power in the dimmest conditions. The detriment is comfort and ease of eye alignment. With a properly mounted scope, you should be able to close your eyes, shoulder your gun with a proper, repeatable stock weld (a stock weld is the firm but comfortable and repeatable position of your face on the gun stock), open your eyes, and look directly through the center of your scope every time. Large objective lenses prevent this from happening because of the ring height required to keep such a large lens off your gun barrel. Some scopes require such high mounting that only your chin touches the stock. These scopes are also heavier, clumsier, unwieldy, unbalanced to carry, slower and less comfortable to shoot. Some of these scopes weigh up to an unbelievable 3.5 pounds!

Guess when that 6X6 elk or B&C buck is going to walk out of the thicket. Right at the time the the author of this thread saw it. -- IN THE DIMMEST CONDITIONS



The trick is to put on an a adjustable cheek piece so your eye is lined up properly and you do get good alignment. While this Ruger #1 may be funny looking, neither the deer, elk nor antelope are laughing.