View Full Version : Shoot or No-Shoot?
SAN FRANCISCO
Victim shoots alleged burglar with own gun
After a suspected burglar pulled a gun on a Western Addition resident coming home Tuesday, the two men wrestled for the weapon before the resident shot the fleeing suspect, police said.
The 1 p.m. shooting at an apartment in the 1100 block of Fell Street left the alleged burglar hospitalized with several gunshot wounds. Police arrested the home's resident, Harvey Williams, 29, for assault with a deadly weapon.
The alleged burglar, whose name is not being released, was in surgery Tuesday night at San Francisco General Hospital. The suspect will face charges of burglary, robbery, carrying a concealed weapon and carrying a loaded firearm, Officer Maria Oropeza said.
Williams confronted the alleged burglar at the front door of his apartment. The suspect pulled the gun. As the men struggled for the weapon down a flight of stairs, shots were fired several times.
The gun landed on the sidewalk. Williams picked up the gun, which he claims went off by accident, Oropeza said. He chased and fired at the suspect for a half-block, before the alleged burglar fell at the corner of Scott and Fell streets. Williams held the suspect at gunpoint until police arrived.
By shooting at the alleged burglar who was running away, Williams was no longer acting in self defense, Oropeza said.
Now the victim is being charged with a crime
I'm really glad I live in Texas after reading that.
Kyobanim
07-23-2004, 18:05
I bet he gets off. Oh wait, this happened in Kalifornia. Isn' that whre San Clamidia is? He's toast.
The Reaper
07-23-2004, 18:10
Down here, he would have gotten his trophy picture in the paper with the Chief of Police.
That is what he gets for living in San Fran.
Hey, Guy, are you reading this?
TR
**Shaking my head wondering WTF**
They probably would have charged me with manslaughter.:(
My defense would have been "temporary insanity" due to those SOBs overseas trying blow me up.:D
Bill Harsey
07-23-2004, 19:02
Aren't you supposed to shoot the bad guy as he runs away so he won't regroup and return?
Bill Harsey
07-23-2004, 19:10
Originally posted by Guy
**Shaking my head wondering WTF**
They probably would have charged me with manslaughter.:(
My defense would have been "temporary insanity" due to those SOBs overseas trying blow me up.:D I sure am proud of your living there Guy.
The Reaper
07-23-2004, 19:23
Originally posted by Guy
**Shaking my head wondering WTF**
They probably would have charged me with manslaughter.:(
My defense would have been "temporary insanity" due to those SOBs overseas trying blow me up.:D
Well of course you would have killed him, you bloodthirsty SF trained-killer types know how to shoot. You probably would have let the poodles dine on him till the cops got there.
You could always claim PTSD, stress, and that the man is just out to get the brother.:D
TR
Smokin Joe
07-23-2004, 19:30
Would this justify always answering your door with a gun in your hand. Or am I just being paranoid?:munchin
The Reaper
07-23-2004, 19:38
Originally posted by Smokin Joe
Would this justify always answering your door with a gun in your hand. Or am I just being paranoid?:munchin
There are people who answer the door without a gun in their hand?
I thought that to be courteous, you just didn't let them see it.
TR
Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-23-2004, 19:52
Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Aren't you supposed to shoot the bad guy as he runs away so he won't regroup and return?
Ahh yes, but if you shoot the SOB up here first make sure you call to him so he turns around and you don't shoot him in the back, then kill him and drag his aorry ass back in the house or they will tell you that you were just a mean old vindictive person that just did not understand the poor downtrodden drug dependent slug that was just robbing you to support his habit that was due in part to your success which robbed him of his opportunity for equal employment. I keep on visualizing that sceen from Apacolypse Now where the Helicopters overfly the area blarring the Ride of the Valkyries and all I can imagine up here is one old Blackhawk on loan from the National Guard blaring out KumByYa to make that poor downtrodden, misunderstood, and disadvantaged soul feel that everything will be okay if he can make it to our courts that will put him on probation and enroll him in a drug treatment program, again at my expense. Don't misunderstand me, I really do care about these folks, that is why I have a full magazine of hollow points so they won't suffer.
Jack Moroney
Bill Harsey
07-23-2004, 20:43
Dear Col. Thank you for your enlightened and heart felt exhibition of both caring and understanding of those less fortunate who would break your door down to take your stuff and/or your life. I will follow your humanitarian example of how to be of the most possible service to those in need.
I think he was wrong to keep shooting at the guy while running down the street. That's dangerous and stupid.
I don't, however, have too much of a problem with him shooting the guy, whether on accident or not, in his own home.
The Reaper
07-23-2004, 21:16
Originally posted by Huey14
I think he was wrong to keep shooting at the guy while running down the street. That's dangerous and stupid.
I don't, however, have too much of a problem with him shooting the guy, whether on accident or not, in his own home.
No offense, but that is why you live where you do, and we live here.
The only thing I fault the homeowner for is poor marksmanship, but it wasn't his piece and the sights may have been off. He didn't hit anyone else, regardless.
A man comes into my house with a gun in his hand and evil intent, I would track him to the end of the Earth to be sure that SOB never threatened anyone again.
If he was bold enough to come after me, he would have no compunction about going after my mother, my wife, or my kids.
We have a major problem with criminal predators here that I do not believe you have. Come live in a major US city for a while and read the paper daily.
That scumbag needed to die. I would help him reach fulfilment.
TR
Ambush Master
07-23-2004, 21:18
Those that attempt that at MY HOUSE while I am either present, or while I am arriving , will get the well deserved "Warning Shot !!"............... THROUGH THE LEFT/RIGHT TEMPLE !!!
BadMuther
07-23-2004, 21:37
I hope the guy gets off, but this being the People's Republik.......:rolleyes:
Originally posted by The Reaper
No offense, but that is why you live where you do, and we live here.
The only thing I fault the homeowner for is poor marksmanship, but it wasn't his piece and the sights may have been off. He didn't hit anyone else, regardless.
A man comes into my house with a gun in his hand and evil intent, I would track him to the end of the Earth to be sure that SOB never threatened anyone again.
If he was bold enough to come after me, he would have no compunction about going after my mother, my wife, or my kids.
We have a major problem with criminal predators here that I do not believe you have. Come live in a major US city for a while and read the paper daily.
That scumbag needed to die. I would help him reach fulfilment.
TR
None taken.
My viewpoint is a bit...skewered I suppose from living here. Our crime trends are 5 years (I think it was) behind Australia, who are about the same from the U.S. My line of thinking was for the people on the street, though. I'm sure being shot wouldn't be the highlight of their week.
We have only begun to see Methamphetimine hit the streets here in a major way in the past 2 years. Since then extreme violence has gone way up.
Probably in 10 years my viewpoint will be similar to yours.
I don't doubt he needed to die either.
For the record, anyone who goes into a home anywhere NEAR Ft. Bragg is asking for not a small amount of trouble!
The Reaper
07-23-2004, 22:41
Originally posted by Huey14
For the record, anyone who goes into a home anywhere NEAR Ft. Bragg is asking for not a small amount of trouble!
You would think that, with the heavy concentration of privately owned weapons, soldiers, and combat vets, yet I believe that every week there are about 120 larcenies, 40 burglaries, 12 aggravated assaults, 12 stolen cars, 8 armed robberies, an arson case, a rape, and a couple of murders per month. Fayetteville averages two to three times the national crime rate.
Most of this is, IMHO, poverty and drug related.
TR
When I was seven I was with my friend at his grandfather's house (in the middle of nowhere). His grandma left for lunch with some friends, and grandpa grabs both of us and tells us to follow him. We go into the lobby and he opens a closet near the door in which is a large gun safe (with the keys dangling next to it..!) inside is a variety of weapons, from high powered revolvers to shotguns and rifles. He takes a handgun out and shows us how to shoot (thing almost took my arms off with the recoil! He had to hold my backstraight when I shot it, but at close range I was good to go). Afterwards, he tells us-
Remember kids- always aim for the chest or the stomach. The head is often too small a target when you're scared. And always- ALWAYS!- remember to shoot into the cieling after you've dropped him, so you can tell the police you even fired a warning shot.
That day still makes me smile :D
Solid
Locasl story from the last few days
Henry County, VA - The pieces are starting to come together... as police investigate that body found in Henry County. They now say it started with a home break-in in Pittsylvania County... with at least three shots apparently fired -- the home's owner fired two of those shots. Including... police believe... the one that killed Jerry Weadon.
Investigators are still looking for some answers in this case... but say the law is very specific when it comes to self-defense.
Investigators say the man found on the side of Morgan Ford Road was shot while trying to break into a home in Pittsylvania County. Jerry Weadon's burning car -- found just two miles up the road.
Sheriff's deputies were called to a home in the Dry Fork area several hours before Weadon's body was discovered. The homeowner -- David Gammon -- says he was sleeping when three men drove into his porch, kicking the door in and firing a shot. Gammon fired back ... and fired again as the men drove away.
When he fired the shot that ultimately killed Weadon isn't clear -- but he is claiming self-defense.
Major Gary Goodson, Pittsylvania Co. Sheriff's Dept. - "The law of the Commonwealth of Virginia is basically you can meet deadly force with deadly force."
Investigators aren't commenting on this case specifically -- but say self-defense law is clear.
Goodson - "If you feel threatened for your life then of course you can meet a threat with a threat, which means deadly force with deadly force."
But according to the law ... if the threat -- an intruder -- begins to leave ... police say you are no longer under attack.
Goodson - "Even though he still may be armed with a weapon, the threat as far as the Commonwealth is concerned is that the threat has left, so you cannot meet deadly force with an individual that's retreating."
Again -- investigators have NOT charged David Gammon with any crimes ... the case is still under investigation. They are also still looking for one of the suspects -- 42-year-old Timothy Thornton. If you have any information -- call the Pittsylvania County Sheriff's Office.
Link (http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0704/161107.html)
Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-24-2004, 07:28
Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Dear Col. Thank you for your enlightened and heart felt exhibition of both caring and understanding of those less fortunate who would break your door down to take your stuff and/or your life. I will follow your humanitarian example of how to be of the most possible service to those in need.
Damn Bill, now I am going to have to seek legal advice from those barristers in this forum because I think you may have made me responsible for any acts you may perpetrate now or in the future based on my views. You know, sort of like suing the knife maker for plying his trade to the level of excellence you do when the knife you made was used in a violent act and all the subsequent suits to support that suit against the farmer who grew the cow whose leather was used for the sheath. Let's not forget the steel maker, the miner, the transportation folks, the public service folks for the power they supplied, the postal service for delivery of the item, etc, etc, etc. Guess I had too much coffee this morning. Got to go burn some of this off.:D
Jack Moroney
Bill Harsey
07-24-2004, 07:40
Originally posted by Huey14
None taken.
My viewpoint is a bit...skewered I suppose from living here. Our crime trends are 5 years (I think it was) behind Australia, who are about the same from the U.S. My line of thinking was for the people on the street, though. I'm sure being shot wouldn't be the highlight of their week.
We have only begun to see Methamphetimine hit the streets here in a major way in the past 2 years. Since then extreme violence has gone way up.
Probably in 10 years my viewpoint will be similar to yours.
I don't doubt he needed to die either.
For the record, anyone who goes into a home anywhere NEAR Ft. Bragg is asking for not a small amount of trouble! That meth shit is bad out here. It migrated up from California when the law enforcement from that state went after it hard about 15 years ago, the manufacturers came up here because we have some big spaces with law agencies stretched thin. I've slept with a 12 gauge pump (#4 shot, extended range 3 inch magnums, no plug) nearby so long I can't remember it not being there. The burglary and home break in rate is extremely high, the sheriff won't even investigate a report of theft here and the DA won't prosecute because there are too many of them. It's every man for himself when it comes to defense of home and property around here because of meth bullshit. You have to change your way of thinking when a driver cuts you off or is acting in an eratic manner, meth use could be in play so if you engage that person the old rules don't apply. I have no forgiveness whatsoever if meth is involved.
Bill Harsey
07-24-2004, 07:45
Originally posted by Jack Moroney
Damn Bill, now I am going to have to seek legal advice from those barristers in this forum because I think you may have made me responsible for any acts you may perpetrate now or in the future based on my views. You know, sort of like suing the knife maker for plying his trade to the level of excellence you do when the knife you made was used in a violent act and all the subsequent suits to support that suit against the farmer who grew the cow whose leather was used for the sheath. Let's not forget the steel maker, the miner, the transportation folks, the public service folks for the power they supplied, the postal service for delivery of the item, etc, etc, etc. Guess I had too much coffee this morning. Got to go burn some of this off.:D
Jack Moroney Sir, No worries, I always take full responsibility for anything I do no matter what the resulting mess is. On the other hand, this could work, "Your honor, I've come under the influence of a group of..."
Bill Harsey
07-24-2004, 07:47
Originally posted by Jack Moroney
You know, sort of like suing the knife maker for plying his trade to the level of excellence you do when the knife you made was used in a violent act and all the subsequent suits to support that suit against the farmer who grew the cow whose leather was used for the sheath. Let's not forget the steel maker, the miner, the transportation folks, the public service folks for the power they supplied, the postal service for delivery of the item, etc, etc, etc. Guess I had too much coffee this morning. Got to go burn some of this off.:D
Jack Moroney Jack! Don't give them any more ideas!
Originally posted by Bill Harsey
That meth shit is bad out here. It migrated up from California when the law enforcement from that state went after it hard about 15 years ago, the manufacturers came up here because we have some big spaces with law agencies stretched thin. I've slept with a 12 gauge pump (#4 shot, extended range 3 inch magnums, no plug) nearby so long I can't remember it not being there. The burglary and home break in rate is extremely high, the sheriff won't even investigate a report of theft here and the DA won't prosecute because there are too many of them. It's every man for himself when it comes to defense of home and property around here because of meth bullshit. You have to change your way of thinking when a driver cuts you off or is acting in an eratic manner, meth use could be in play so if you engage that person the old rules don't apply. I have no forgiveness whatsoever if meth is involved.
NZ Police have to send Meth samples over to Australia to be analysed now, it's overpowered them that much.
A year ago there was a case were a guy cut up a woman with a Samuari sword and cut the forearm off another. High on "P" (one of the street names for it. P for Pure).
I hated gangs before; I hate them even more now they're manufacturing harder drugs than Cannabis.
Did you guys up there hear about the $500m Meth lab bust up in Fiji?
NousDefionsDoc
07-24-2004, 10:06
Poor tradecraft - again.
BadMuther
07-24-2004, 10:53
Originally posted by The Reaper
You would think that, with the heavy concentration of privately owned weapons, soldiers, and combat vets, yet I believe that every week there are about 120 larcenies, 40 burglaries, 12 aggravated assaults, 12 stolen cars, 8 armed robberies, an arson case, a rape, and a couple of murders per month. Fayetteville averages two to three times the national crime rate.
Most of this is, IMHO, poverty and drug related.
TR
Man, that is crazy!! I didn't realize it was like that.
Bill,
Where I used to live (Pierce County Washington) and where I live now (Riverside County California) take turns flipflopping at being the worst county in the nation for methlabs........
Where I live the city is very easily divided by the freeway, nice homes on my side, crackhouses on the other, so I really don't see too many methheads, but I know they are close by.....
The Reaper
07-24-2004, 11:12
Originally posted by BadMuther
Man, that is crazy!! I didn't realize it was like that.
FYI:
http://fayettevillenc.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm
TR
BadMuther
07-24-2004, 11:27
Wow....sounds like a bigger version of Tilliscum for you 1st groupers/Lewis guys!
The Reaper
07-24-2004, 11:32
Originally posted by BadMuther
Wow....sounds like a bigger version of Tilliscum for you 1st groupers/Lewis guys!
The only thing that makes Fayetteville look good is when you check out Lumberton just to the south.
Must be the AO of every thief in NC.
http://www.bestplaces.net/html/crimecompare3.asp?lcity=9894&rcity=9910&view=T
TR
Originally posted by The Reaper
FYI:
http://fayettevillenc.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm
TR
I just checked out my city. We have all RED Xs also and I thought I lived in a nice area.
I wonder how everyone elses city stacks up?
Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-24-2004, 12:24
Originally posted by Guy
I just checked out my city. We have all RED Xs also and I thought I lived in a nice area.
I wonder how everyone elses city stacks up?
Fayetteville's statistics for the year shown is higher than that for the entire state of Vermont. In my little town of Randolph about the worst things are break ins, assaults and some alcohol and drug related stuff. In these little towns most folks know when a stranger shows up and all the bad seeds are pretty much known so there are really not a whole lot of surprises. Also folks sort of look out for each other. In my case my neighbor has a reputation that is such that no one wants to cross him. We get along fine and it is sort of like having your own Rotweiler at the entrance to your property, hungry and on guard 24 hours a day.
Jack Moroney