View Full Version : You're a Student of History, And I'm Not
It is an issue...
Richard
You're a Student of History, And I'm Not
Harry Shearer, HuffPo, 14 Dec 2009
For a crystalline example of what's wrong with American journalism, and the American political conversation, at this exact moment, go no farther than Sunday's 60 Minutes interview with President Obama, specifically to 7:12 in.
Steve Kroft begins his question with this sentence: "You're a student of history". The subject is the escalation in Afghanistan. The two examples of history Kroft cites: the British in America, the Americans in Vietnam.
Gee, it's too bad there aren't any historical examples of foreign nations invading Afghanistan for him to cite. They might have framed a more challenging question for the president. But, that's that damn history for you.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20091214/cm_huffpost/391361
Streck-Fu
12-15-2009, 07:46
History seems to be a subject that gets less attention overall, regardless of profession. It seems that most people passing themselves off as journalists know more about 80s Pop Culture than world events.
Lawyers are another group that could spend a little more time studying history.
Just for the hell of it, I look up the Journalism plan of study for the highly regarded Purdue University here in Indiana and found this: LINK (http://www.cla.purdue.edu/academics/programs/pos/COMC200720rev.pdf).
They call it Mass Communications now and seems geared toward delivering news rather than traditional journalism. They have generic courses in Western Heritage, Racial and Ethnic Diversity ( :rolleyes: ), Global Perspective, and Gender Issues.
I'm sure some History courses could be taken to satisfy elective requirements but I don't see many doing it.
Perhaps someone should send the 'journalist' a copy of Bear Went Over the Mountain.....
Utah Bob
12-15-2009, 09:34
An incompetent journalist interviewing an incompetent president. Sorry I missed that.:rolleyes:
armymom1228
12-15-2009, 11:30
An incompetent journalist interviewing an incompetent president. Sorry I missed that.:rolleyes:
You also missed Oprah asking the gentleman in the White House what 'grade ' he would give himself for his first year in office. His reply (get the smelling salts).......
"A B+ and if I pass Health Care Reform an A minus."
Otay whatever you say. Personally I would give him a D+ and If he doesn't pass this particular health care reform might consider upgrading it to a C. YMMV.
AM
ps....NO I did not waste time I will never get back watching Oprah. It was a news clip on Fox News during Glenn Beck last night. :D
Dozer523
12-15-2009, 11:33
It is an issue...
Richard
You're a Student of History, And I'm Not
Harry Shearer, HuffPo, 14 Dec 2009
oft begins his question with this sentence: "You're a student of history". The subject is the escalation in Afghanistan. The two examples of history Kroft cites: the British in America, the Americans in Vietnam.
4,500 British troops along with 12,000 Sepoy and camp followers would be spinning in their graves along the (old) Kabul-Jalalabad road . . . If they had gotten graves.
When did Journalism mean they no longer had to read?
You also missed Oprah asking the gentleman in the White House what 'grade ' he would give himself for his first year in office. His reply (get the smelling salts).......
"A B+ and if I pass Health Care Reform an A minus." I loved self grading! When I went back to get my Teaching Certificate I gave myself a B for a course (and prepared a defense of such a high award). The teacher laughed her ass off, . . . "Dozer dearie, you gave yourself the LOWEST grade in the class!"
The first casualty of historiography is journalism.
armymom1228
12-15-2009, 11:44
I loved self grading! When I went back to get my Teaching Certificate I gave myself a B for a course (and prepared a defense of such a high award). The teacher laughed her ass off, . . . "Dozer dearie, you gave yourself the LOWEST grade in the class!"
You, at least were honest. Can we say that about the above mentioned gentleman?
You also missed Oprah asking the gentleman in the White House what 'grade ' he would give himself for his first year in office. His reply (get the smelling salts).......
"A B+ and if I pass Health Care Reform an A minus."
Otay whatever you say. Personally I would give him a D+ and If he doesn't pass this particular health care reform might consider upgrading it to a C. YMMV.
AM
ps....NO I did not waste time I will never get back watching Oprah. It was a news clip on Fox News during Glenn Beck last night. :D
I guess most people don't feel the same way....
but we already knew that.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/12/14/2009-12-14_b_for_me_bam_sez_first_couple_hosts_oprah_on_ab c.html
alfromcolorado
12-16-2009, 06:06
The first casualty of historiography is journalism.
The first casualty caused by journalism is history...
It is an issue...
Richard
You're a Student of History, And I'm Not
Harry Shearer, HuffPo, 14 Dec 2009
Interesting that the thread has permeated into one of the things that has changed in journalism. Talk show hosts are now on equal footing with trained journalists. Ratings – whether Beck’s or Oprah’s – trump objective reporting.
Journalism has suffered with the onset of 24-hour news which morphed to entertainment news. It is more obvious then ever today, but has been declining over the past 30 years rather markedly. We used to joke about it at the field station. When you know what is really going on, seeing the watered down, filtered for the audience version is rather lame.
Part of the responsibility does rely on us – we all (at least on this site) should understand the reason for multiple sources and multiple methods of information acquisition. If someone has a favorite news channel or radio show, it is comfortable entertainment but it is not intelligence gathering, just entertainment.
Analogous to Afghanistan being compared to Vietnam rather than, well, Afghanistan, is the public option discussion. Putting aside whatever one thinks of healthcare reform, just on the journalism side… A public option by definition is not government run healthcare. It is a government insurance option such as available in Germany. Who do news “personalities” compare? England and Canada. Since neither have a public option/private insurance scheme as proposed, it is a rather useless comparison. So everyone argues moot points and the real debate never occurs. Ditto for Congress and the Senate.
The “Letter for Garcia” thread offers a lesson here -- personal responsibility and initiative. If an individual wants to have an informed opinion, ideally, that person would see it as his mission to seek out data from multiple sources and test the accuracy before he accepts it as fact. Sadly, few reporters do. So, MOO, we are on our own to do the work.
In a way, we are back to the Middle Ages when the “Hofnarr” or court jester was the only one near the king who could speak the truth, through humor. Ah ha! The Daily Show and Colbert Report have their historical perspective established. ;)
"The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson
ZonieDiver
12-16-2009, 12:32
I loved self grading! When I went back to get my Teaching Certificate I gave myself a B for a course (and prepared a defense of such a high award). The teacher laughed her ass off, . . . "Dozer dearie, you gave yourself the LOWEST grade in the class!"
Don't you just love colleges of education! My first education class at ASU in '73 ended with a 'self-grading' of our performance. I said I deserved a B, and got weird looks from the two professors. They asked if I was sure, gave me examples of what I had done, and asked that I re-consider. I did. I asked for a B+. I was the only one of 24 students - many who had done next to nothing - to fail to get an A.
It is no wonder that we are where we are today. It IS nice to have high standards for your performance. I still wonder how they would have reacted had I asked for a C+ - which was my initial thought. :D
It is no wonder that we are where we are today.
http://www.adlit.org/article/5981
It's been an on-going, dynamic issue for quite some time - and who knows where it'll be heading in the future.
And so it goes...;)
Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin
greenberetTFS
12-16-2009, 12:53
An incompetent journalist interviewing an incompetent president. Sorry I missed that.:rolleyes:
UB,
Couldn't have said it any better............:mad:
Big Teddy :munchin
You also missed Oprah asking the gentleman in the White House what 'grade ' he would give himself for his first year in office. His reply (get the smelling salts).......
"A B+ and if I pass Health Care Reform an A minus."
I like the letter F in the Alphabet.
F is for Forgetting to fund our National Defense capability during wartime.
F is for Frightening the American public of gun ownership.
F is for Falling on your knees in servitude, in front of foreign diplomats.
And F is for Failing to do the job you were elected to do. To run the United States of America to prosperity instead of into the poor house!
Personally, just took final exams this past week, and on a practical was asked by my Instructor what grade I should get on each of 6 parts, worth 6 points each. As he calls me the "overachiever" of the class, (not sure what the hell that means anyway,) I gave myself 5 points on certain criteria...come to find out some of the younger folks in my class were happy, and excited to get 3's and 4's...:confused::eek::rolleyes:
Holly
A while back I worked in an office. Our receptionist was talking people during the Roman times etc. I was amazed, until I saw that the source of information she was citing was from a Calvin Klein or Avian water commercial. No need to crack open a book when you have T.V. :eek:
FirstClass
12-16-2009, 20:36
I guess most people don't feel the same way....
but we already knew that.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/12/14/2009-12-14_b_for_me_bam_sez_first_couple_hosts_oprah_on_ab c.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/nydn/poll.do?pollCmsUniqueId=20091214_grading_obama&pollTitle=Grading+Obama&pollQuestion=President+Obama+gives+himself+a+B%2B+ for+his+first+11+months+in+office.+What+grade+woul d+you+give+him%3F&voteExpirationDate=&option_labels=A%3BB%2B%3BB%3BC%3BD%3BF&20091214_grading_obama=6&vote=vote
:D:p
Glad to see you found the Easter egg I left you. :munchin
Good Night, and Good Luck is a 2005 film, ...George Clooney. The film was written by Clooney, ... and portrays the conflict between veteran radio and television journalist Edward R. Murrow and U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy.
While movies are primarily meant to entertain, occasionally they instruct. Journalism began charting it's own cource when news men/women began to comment on the event instead of simple reporting.