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Found Wanting
12-08-2009, 12:47
The following is a copy of a letter sent to a recruiter with the Roanoke Rapids unit, to which I have still not received a response. I have called him back and left messages and not heard back yet. Any thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated. I am about to just finally accept the fact I can’t get in because I look bad on paper!


My apologies if my call earlier interrupted you. Again my name is F W, I live in Blank, NC and I received your number from MSG Edwards. I was discharged from the Army National Guard June 05, honorably but with an RE-3 code; I was 11B/M. Initially I was content with things and didn't give a second though to the end of my military service. I had just graduated from Appalachian State University and had landed a job with a fancy title "Industrial Engineer." After about 4 months I became discontent and since then I have been haunted, as I call it, by something. From that job I went on to get my broker's license and worked as a Realtor, then carpenter, then started on my Masters and now I am a Deputy with Blank County Sheriff's Office. I am happy, I enjoy my job, my wife has a good job, she teaches high school history, I enjoy sleeping in my warm bed with her, playing with our son, all those little subtleties Americans can sometimes take for granted. Still I am found wanting, something feels missing and unfulfilled in my life. I think I have always know what it was but was able to suppress it long enough to preoccupy myself with something else just long enough to forget it. None of these vocations seem to hold a true job satisfaction for me like serving. But feelings of which I speak do not go away with such ease; they resurface time and time again for me. So I went to the local National Guard to see about getting back in. Overall he was useless. I suppressed my feelings for a while, and then I found I had a neighbor who was a regular Army recruiter. We talked a lot about my situation and he said, "I'll do all I can to help you, which is at least get you to MEPS." He did what he said and I did go to MEPS, this was almost 2 years ago now. Well things went well at MEPS; I received all 1s on my PULHES; except that one little 3 that found it's way in there. Eyes equaled a 3, and it shouldn't even be eyes, it's just one eye. In my right eye I have scar tissue from an accident; something non service related that happened after I enlisted the first time. Something that I was able to hide for a while, but not long enough to avoid a "medical" discharge. That's another story itself. Back to MEPS; I was told I'd need a waiver for the eye. "No big deal," said one of the staffers. "If Doc Chaney was still here, but that new woman doctor is something else," said the staffer. Well sure enough he was right, I never even spoke to the woman doctor about my eye, I was just handed a print out that read; "The enclosed request for medical waiver has been reviewed and disapproved. The peculiar rigors of military training could further aggravate the medical condition in this case causing the high probability of subsequent lost time and/or assignment restriction." I would like to tell you that the accident with my eye occurred in 2002 and at the time it was 2008. Six years had passed and no change, no further aggravation of "the medical condition." Six years in which I had swam, skied, skydived, shot, drove, lived and no change, there will be no change for the better or worse; it is what it is. We left MEPS, came home, I drank beer and took that to be the last straw, my definitive "NO, you will never get back into the Army!" Like I said, it's been almost 2 years. I stopped working on my Masters and went to Basic Law Enforcement Training. I figured a career in law enforcement was parallel enough to the Army. I have worked as a Deputy for over a year now and am still haunted. I discovered the Special Forces Guard unit in Roanoke Rapids and have a strong desire to serve with them/you. I won't delve into my feelings but what I need is that definitive "NO" or an opportunity to be assessed and prove myself. Until then I am found wanting and not weighed; I can not be at peace with myself.
I realize this is a lot to throw on you out of no where, but can you please help me? I am willing to drive down for an interview, go to drills prior reenlistment and take part in the SF Indoctrination Program, anything for a shot to prove my salt.

lksteve
12-08-2009, 13:22
You were medically discharged for an eye injury that was not service connected? That leaves a lot to the imagination and that's not good.
I suspect it is time you moved on with your life.

The Reaper
12-08-2009, 14:23
Lots of missing pieces here.

I would not expect much assistance until you fill in the blanks. If that is too much to ask, you might just want to let it be and move on with your life.

A pattern of deceptive behavior is not a desired attribute and is likely to repeat itself.

If you have not reviewed AR 40-501, as we advise people in the stickies, you might want to. I do not think the MEPS Doc can waive DQ med issues for 18s.

TR

ccrn
12-08-2009, 14:36
With permission....

Its been my experience that no NG SF(G) unit is going to return your calls especially if you have a problem ie medical, legal etc.

I would suggest you personally go to the unit, ask to take a PT test (and smoke it), and explain yourself-

Respectfully

Found Wanting
12-08-2009, 17:54
Thank you all for the responses. Yes, the eye injury was not service related. I was in the Guard when it happen; more time away from service than there. As far as missing pieces and the question of deception; it was a long email with a lot of detail already so I tried to hit just the most relevant points. I have no intentions of deceptive, I have nothing to hide. The eye injury happened when I was helping re-floor a barn. My boss at the time stepped through a floor board near where I was kneeling. One end of the board popped up and hit me on the right side of the face. I got a large black eye and as the swelling went down I found when I closed my left eye I saw spots, like sun spots when you look at something bright, in my right eye. I thought with time it would heal and be fine so I sought no medical attention. The only time I noticed the spots where when my left eye was closed, otherwise my field of vision appear normal.
Should I call before I go to the unit or just go on a drill weekend or what do you think is most appropriate? I am willing to do it, but the unit is about 4 hours away and I’d hate to get there and find there was no one home. Thanks again to all.

ccrn
12-08-2009, 21:43
Four hours is nothing (no offense).

I drive twelve hours one way to drill with my unit. I drove twenty-five one way to drill with another unit in my battalion.

This is not unique in the line units certainly, or the supoort units. People will fly half way across the country to drill with their unit and no one will bat an eye let alone pat them on the back.

For that matter that is seen in the conventional forces too.

If you are able to do this, a four hour drive will be the easiest part of your journey.

What if this took you a year or two? And mulitple waivers and drives across several states?

Would it be worth it to you?

Richard
12-08-2009, 22:05
Some things just aren't meant to be - no sarcasm - just a fact - be realistic and good luck.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

caveman
12-08-2009, 22:47
Purely from a readability standpoint someone who is busy and receives dozens of emails daily would be less likely to skim and delete if you broke it up into a couple paragraphs. Disregard if you just lost the formatting when you copied and pasted from your email. Good luck.

chance
12-09-2009, 00:23
Found Wanting,
All I have to say is some of the greatest men in the ARMY were told "NO". How bad do you really want it? Does it make you sick when you think about it? Do you stay up at night thinking what if I would have done this? If you look at my posts I was there second guessing myself, and then these fine WARRIORS! that patrol this forum set me straight. You need to stop and do a self assessment of yourself if you want it the only person stopping you is you. That's my two cents.


Gentlemen, if I have stepped on my crank with this post I apologize please delete.

Scimitar
12-09-2009, 00:43
OK,

Couple of thoughts here…

You are WAY over communicating in that letter, think professional, not emotional.

When did you send this letter? They only opened 18 series stuff back up to med waivers in October.

As said above, don't push at the recruiters door, make the unit fall in love with you and they'll do the pushing for you.
- Very High ASVAB
- Very High PT Score - find out what they mean by PT - it may not just be the PU-SU-Run
- Hell take a language course and some MOS appropriate training to show your serious

My understanding is that most ARNG units are at 125% autho-strength and are trying to cut guys, I've been told you need to bring something pretty damn special to the table for them to even bother looking at you if your bringing a liabilty to the table upfront.

May want to try one of the other battalions who may be more interested in more guys.
I could be wrong here but I believe that the NC unit is pretty full due to guys leaving Bragg for the guard and enlisting in the closest unit. CA and Texas seem to be enlisting right now... that news might be a little out of date.

Lastly I have sent half a dozen guys from all aorund the country with "issues" to 19th group HQ in Utah who have got in. 19th group HQ seem pretty proactive and willing (last time I heard) to release you to any 19th group unit upon finishing the Q (i.e. WV, OH, RI) which ain’t to far out of your way.

Sounds like the doc DQd you on a medical opinion not on a straight med line, I could be wrong I’d have to look at the regs for your issue. But if that's the case, enough reports from specialists can over turn that. You just need to find a unit that thinks it's worth fighting for you?

HTH

Scimitar

k-rub
12-09-2009, 09:43
OK,

Lastly I have sent half a dozen guys from all aorund the country with "issues" to 19th group HQ in Utah who have got in. 19th group HQ seem pretty proactive and willing (last time I heard) to release you to any 19th group unit upon finishing the Q (i.e. WV, OH, RI) which ain’t to far out of your way.

Scimitar

Agreed. The 19th HQ in Utah is very proactive in recruitment right now. I was just recruited from MI Reserves in Arizona to be part of that unit. In my in-processing packet there was a memo from the CDR stating the high demand for able 18 series.

abc_123
12-09-2009, 21:03
OK,

Couple of thoughts here…

You are WAY over communicating in that letter, think professional, not emotional.

When did you send this letter? They only opened 18 series stuff back up to med waivers in October.

As said above, don't push at the recruiters door, make the unit fall in love with you and they'll do the pushing for you.
- Very High ASVAB
- Very High PT Score - find out what they mean by PT - it may not just be the PU-SU-Run
- Hell take a language course and some MOS appropriate training to show your serious

My understanding is that most ARNG units are at 125% autho-strength and are trying to cut guys, I've been told you need to bring something pretty damn special to the table for them to even bother looking at you if your bringing a liabilty to the table upfront.

May want to try one of the other battalions who may be more interested in more guys.
I could be wrong here but I believe that the NC unit is pretty full due to guys leaving Bragg for the guard and enlisting in the closest unit. CA and Texas seem to be enlisting right now... that news might be a little out of date.

Lastly I have sent half a dozen guys from all aorund the country with "issues" to 19th group HQ in Utah who have got in. 19th group HQ seem pretty proactive and willing (last time I heard) to release you to any 19th group unit upon finishing the Q (i.e. WV, OH, RI) which ain’t to far out of your way.

Sounds like the doc DQd you on a medical opinion not on a straight med line, I could be wrong I’d have to look at the regs for your issue. But if that's the case, enough reports from specialists can over turn that. You just need to find a unit that thinks it's worth fighting for you?

HTH

Scimitar

Ok. Couple of thoughts here.

Your understanding and giving the impression that NG SF is somehow overstrength in potential 18series or acual 18series force wide and looking for ways to cut people is wrong.

The last time I talked with both NG SFG commanders, members of the NGB staff, and SF State G-3 reps, and attended a meeting of SF State TAGs, you know, I never heard one of them talk about how they needed to not recruit more people because they were over-strength, nor was any working group established to work on more efficiently cutting people. What I did hear however was talk of the necessity of doing regular house-cleaning and either getting Non-Quals into the training pipline or cutting them loose to free up space if they had no chance / intention of becoming qualified. But hey, I probably just missed something. Your notes from those meetings must be better than mine.

But for now, and just to be on the safe side... How about not speculating and making generalizations on NG-wide issues that you do not have complete visibility on?

OK?

Oh, and for the record..last time I saw the DMOSQ and strength slides...20th SFG needs folks just like 19th.

FW, if you are not getting a response from the local recruiter in NC (Not necessarily a SF guy) then re-contact MSG Edwards at 20th SFG and let him know. If you do that and nobody gives you a response then PM me and we can go from there. You should, at the very least, receive a response. However, one person not responding to your email should not send you into an emotional tailspin.

Look, the fact of the matter is that, unlike the Active Component there is no single NG SF recruiting battalion.. we are at the mercy of state recruiters some are better than others. We try and identify the bad ones.

Now, with that said, you need to do your own research and then work on stating your case and asking questions in an intelligent, direct and succinct manner without all the drama.

Scimitar
12-10-2009, 02:21
Roger that ABC,

Thanks for the accurate G2.

Scimitar

abc_123
12-10-2009, 06:25
Roger that ABC,

Thanks for the accurate G2.

Scimitar

No problem. I just don't want anyone thinking that the NG SF somehow doesn't need people. Or that someone needs to travel halfway across the U.S. to find a unit.

Every SF company out there needs people. Every one. Our Bn's and Groups need support soldiers too.

lindy
12-10-2009, 16:33
...state recruiters some are better than others....Our Bn's and Groups need support soldiers too.

I can attest to that. For the lurkers out there, I did EXACTLY what abc_123 said above:

1) contacted MSG Edwards
2) didn't get that "warm & fuzzy" from one recruiter, so contacted another in different state
3) I'm finally heading to WTC next month.

I initially had a "misunderstanding" with a recruiter in KY but the guys in MS (SFC Summers (RIP) & SFC Lott) understood my prior service background, what I wanted to do as a soldier, & what skills I could bring to the fight. SFC Lott worked on my enlistment for 4 freakin' months! (med waiver, day job TDY, then rank approval at the highest State level.)

Some folks at work do ask why I'm going to MS to drill...it's about the people, both in the BSC and the line company that's here in MD.

hakuda
12-10-2009, 17:04
Just to be sure, did you send a letter or an email? I checked today and the NCO's responsible for handling those questions seem to remember you. One even seems to remember telling you, or another with the same issue as you, that you needed to get to MEPS and request an SF physical. If you could pass that or get the waiver required, you could get into a regular unit and then come to us to persue further aspirations.

If this was not the case, PM me your name and I will check again to ensure you get the correct guidance. I can attest that our office receives 25-30 calls a week, not to mention all the emails, from folks inquiring about joining the unit. Of those, maybe 1 or 2 ever actually show up. If you were somehow overlooked, which I doubt happened, I apologize. Feel free to call us again as well. I assure you we are there.

abc_123
12-10-2009, 19:08
I can attest to that. For the lurkers out there, I did EXACTLY what abc_123 said above:

1) contacted MSG Edwards
2) didn't get that "warm & fuzzy" from one recruiter, so contacted another in different state
3) I'm finally heading to WTC next month.

I initially had a "misunderstanding" with a recruiter in KY but the guys in MS (SFC Summers (RIP) & SFC Lott) understood my prior service background, what I wanted to do as a soldier, & what skills I could bring to the fight. SFC Lott worked on my enlistment for 4 freakin' months! (med waiver, day job TDY, then rank approval at the highest State level.)

Some folks at work do ask why I'm going to MS to drill...it's about the people, both in the BSC and the line company that's here in MD.

Lindy,

Good for you. I spent 7 yrs in that BN.

PM me with your story. I want specifics on this "misunderstanding." If you caused it, don't bother... but if we have a recruiter that is sub par then I want details.

abc_123
12-10-2009, 19:13
Just to be sure, did you send a letter or an email? I checked today and the NCO's responsible for handling those questions seem to remember you. One even seems to remember telling you, or another with the same issue as you, that you needed to get to MEPS and request an SF physical. If you could pass that or get the waiver required, you could get into a regular unit and then come to us to persue further aspirations.


:munchin

Found Wanting
12-11-2009, 06:58
Hello and thank you all for your responses, I appreciate your input. I did not realize I was conveying such “emotion” or a sense of “drama” as some have said. This was not my intent although I realize something is lost in the written word and is left open for individual interpretation. Thanks again and PMs are sent.

hakuda
12-11-2009, 07:36
Your PM was replied to.

To update those of interest, he contacted a recruiter that works helping us. He didn't contact the unit directly but the advice still holds. He has been given contact info for the armory and further guidance.