View Full Version : Hello Muslims
Warrior-Mentor
12-05-2009, 14:22
Interesting young lady asks questions of the "silent Muslims"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6sW9Mt2axc
rltipton
12-05-2009, 15:54
Interesting. She points out very clearly the different interpretations. I've read the Quran, and all I can say is that if I were a devout muslim I'd be killing all non-muslims too...that's how I interpreted it, and I am a relatively educated man.
I once asked the same question to a group of 5 muslim Arabic/Pashtu interpreters that she is asking, but it was less specific. I asked them why the non-radical muslims didn't speak out or take charge and put the radicals in their places and end the madness.
Unanimously, they all agreed that it is because there are no "non-radical" muslims that believe the "radical" muslims are doing anything wrong. Furthermore, they (all 5) stated that when the time comes, the majority of muslims will take a stand together. I did not ask for clarification of the meaning of that statement. I didn't think I needed to...seemed pretty clear to me.
The 5 individuals I spoke with were all educated with 4-8 years of secondary education, 2 were educators, 2 were lawyers, 1 was an accountant.
It is a very difficult situation to deal with. Who do you believe? Certainly their religion teaches that it is just for them to lie to any non-muslims. According to what I recall, it is not only ok to cheat, mislead, abuse all non-muslims, but it glorifies allah when a muslim deceives an infidel. So are the "non-radical" muslims lying in wait, misleading all of us until the big day they all go "boom"?
You cannot put them on trial, because they WILL lie. Nothing they ever say can be taken as factual. How do we deal with the threat within all these "left and right limits" put in place by politically correct dipshit liberals without a clue as to how things happen in the REAL world? Whatever the correct answer is, our gubmint ain't fingered it out yet!!
I've said it before, and I will say it again... We aren't just killing Iraqis in Iraq. We aren't just killing Afghanis in Afghanistan. We are killing Indonesians, Chechens, Philipinos, Syrians, Iranians, Pakis, Uzbeks, Somalis...<insert name of any random f***ed up muslim s**thole country here>. The ONLY common thread between them ALL is the fact that they are muslims, every last one of them. It's time for the world to wake up!
For the record: F*** muslims. Personally the only way I see to solve the muslim problem (we will NEVER do it) is double arm interval, begin at the Pak-China border and clear as you go. Set the LOA at the Ivory Coast and leave not a single one breathing in our wake.
My $0.03
I've said it before, and I will say it again... We aren't just killing Iraqis in Iraq. We aren't just killing Afghanis in Afghanistan. We are killing Indonesians, Chechens, Philipinos, Syrians, Iranians, Pakis, Uzbeks, Somalis...<insert name of any random f***ed up muslim s**thole country here>. The ONLY common thread between them ALL is the fact that they are muslims, every last one of them. It's time for the world to wake up!
For the record: F*** muslims. Personally the only way I see to solve the muslim problem (we will NEVER do it) is double arm interval, begin at the Pak-China border and clear as you go. Set the LOA at the Ivory Coast and leave not a single one breathing in our wake.
YGBSM! :eek: That strategy has worked oh so well in the past - why not try it again? :rolleyes: Amerika erwacht!
Richard
olhamada
12-05-2009, 16:40
For the record: F*** muslims. Personally the only way I see to solve the muslim problem (we will NEVER do it) is double arm interval, begin at the Pak-China border and clear as you go. Set the LOA at the Ivory Coast and leave not a single one breathing in our wake.
My $0.03
If we take this approach, what makes us any different than them? Is genocide the only answer we have? What is it that makes our cause just and their's unjust?
I certainly believe, with every fiber of my being, that there is an Islamic movement afoot that seeks to rule the world under one unified Sharia law. They are trying to accomplish this both with force of arms as well as through subversion. I don't believe that we are in a war against AQ. I believe we are in a wider religious war. A war of values and a war of beliefs. And I belive it is a worldwide war.
As Bill Clinton says in the latest issue of 'Foreign Policy' (and I'm no fan of his, but he's certianly correct here), most all the terrorism in the world today is born in those areas of the world which are effectively "stateless" (Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Palestine, Somalia), or have a very ineffective government.
What options do we have other than extermination/genocide propagated by either fear or hate?
Continued nation building (though sometimes I have doubts as to how well this works). Education of our populous regarding the true threat (again we've shown a lack of receptivity to this as a nation because of all the left leaning tree huggers). Shining light in the dark corners to make the cockroaches run. Helping our citizenry realize and understand the battle we are in and the costs to all of us should we lose.
The way they are winning in Europe and in the US is by using the media, the liberal left, and "tolerance and diversity" arguments to lull us into embarrassment and inaction while they set up networks, establish footholds, and brainwash people into thinking there's nothing wrong with Islam.
And of course, a heavy proactive hand of force that seeks out beds of terror and extremism and destroys them without politically correct media and legislative intrusion.
Not a perfect solution, but we can't lose our own humanity in fighting this evil.
I could go on and on, but enough for now.
olhamada
12-05-2009, 16:49
Incidently, if you believe in a sovereign God who knows, sees, and has control over all, have you ever wondered why He allowed Islam to be such a powerful force in our world? Does any of this take Him by surprise?
We know the church flourishes under persecution. We know the state of the church in the US and Western Europe is sadly lukewarm and misguided.
If we look at the OT, every time Israel strayed, God allowed a foreign power to rise up, defeat them, and take them into captivity - until they realized that they were effectively powerless outside of God's guidance and re-submitted themseves to Him.
Islam was born during an era when the church in SA was weak and mired in immorality, cheating, dishonesty, etc... Did God allow/cause Islam to rise up as a way to chasten (not punish - and there is a difference) the church, strengthen them, and guide them back to Himself?
Are we in a similar situation today?
tom kelly
12-05-2009, 16:53
Either you are with me or your against me! If it is the latter, THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE WILL BE USED ! NO R O E will be considered...tom kelly......Alah Akbar and enjoy the seedless grapes and bananas when you get to HELL ?
Utah Bob
12-05-2009, 18:59
YGBSM! :eek: That strategy has worked oh so well in the past - why not try it again? :rolleyes: Amerika erwacht!
Richard
Dotto.:eek:
What is it that makes our cause just and their's unjust?
YGBSM :eek:
I wonder - might I add an extra dimension to this discussion?
By and large, we believe in abundance - abundance of just about everything, including food, water, and flat screen televisions. In this instance, the term "we" means almost everyone alive, with a few exceptions duly noted. What if this deeply-believed assumption is dead wrong?
Let's keep in mind that the U.S. Agriculture department, circa 1950, started the Green revolution which increased crop yields substantially. Global population increased from around 2.5 billion to 6.5 billion.
Turning to Islamic countries, it seems that there is a unifying characteristic - relatively young populations and relatively rapid population growth. At the same time, the economic numbers seem to suggest substantial poverty among those populations, even in Saudi Arabia. So - and this is a serious question - is it possible that the various behaviors, including terrorism, are enhanced by population overshoot? Thus, Islam creates the environment that makes it possible, and population pressures create the trigger for the events we're experiencing.
This connects with Jared Diamond's book, Collapse. Let us suppose that for some reason, the existing abundance fails. It has in the past. For example, about 95% of the population of Easter island died due to starvation and intense warfare when their island ceased to enjoy abundance. Other populations, such as in Central America, did likewise. So - if we were to see a reduction in food availability, might we not experience global warfare that would, ultimately, result in a similar reduction in population? More pointedly, is it possible that the conflict Rltipton mentioned might be unavoidable due to the realities of population growth?
Now - if this premise is true - then those groups who are unified might have an advantage over those who are not. Thus, Muslims might have an advantage over the West, in one area at least.
Please understand that I am not advocating any particular action. But it occurs to me that a near-genocidal event approaches certainty at some indeterminate future date. I do not say the above lightly. My premise only has to be true once, whereas those who suggest abundance will always persist must be correct every time, forever.
And now a rhetorical question. Unless we firmly believe that the availability of food will never become a problem, should we not do some planning, both personally and nationally, for such a global warfare event? Not stockpiling, so much as what do we do if and when widespread warfare occurs with the Islamic bloc of nations? Again, the preceding is purely rhetorical.
rltipton
12-05-2009, 20:15
How are we so different from them? You honestly do not get it?
It's very simple.
It is a radical religious movement that teaches Islam or death and that infidels must convert or be killed or enslaved. Go read it yourself. Do you think the "honor killings" in the news lately are anything new? Hardly. These people, I will remind you, are the ones who recently reached through the windows of a mosque and grabbed women and children by the hair and pulled them up then shot them in the heads, tossed hand grenades into the building full of people, then blew themselves up to kill a few more on their way out. You WILL not, CANNOT reason with them, period. Their belief system and sense of duty in martydom far surpasses any zeal you have witnessed, I assure you...hello, suicide bombers?
--versus--
Self preservation against something that can only be stopped in one way, period.
I lived with them, as have many others here. They aren't going to bend or budge. They have made their goal of global domination openly clear and the world continues to go about their business hoping the crazy guys yelling allah ahkbar will go away. It simply isn't going to happen. They aren't going to let up or stop. If we pull out of A'stan before the job is done RIGHT (not to mention if Obama opens our borders to all like he wants to and gives them open access to our country) then you can bet your ass we will be having random IED strikes here in the good old US of A, then what? Oh man you know it will hit the fan. This country will shut down.
You fence-straddlers, wanna-be politically correct, want to be all-accepting, or just plain wanna-be buddies with muslim types can sing the praises of the "hug 'em to death" crowd all you want. You can say that me and those who think like me are radical right wingers (which is very far from the truth) because you have nothing else to label us as, or did not until the term "Islamophobe" was invented... Say what you will. I'm not blinded by the bullshit of the MSM because I was there.
Until you open your eyes and stop trying to be nice and not piss off the muslims, who by the way are already pissed off and they want to acquire weapons of mass destruction and employ them in the USA to kill every man, woman, and child to remove our seed from the planet forever...and they have openly stated such... until you stop being afraid to call a spade a spade and be honest and if it pisses someone off then f*** em, then they will continue to kill us, plan to kill us, and openly state their plans to kill us and wipe us off the earth. Getting it? THEY say this stuff themselves, nobody is making it up!
You really do not see the difference? It has been staring you in the face for a great many years now...since 1983 at least. Go live with them and learn their culture and beliefs, then come back with facts instead of "I think..." or "I really feel that..." That's horseshit. You can "feel" or "think" whatever you want to. I am telling you what I KNOW.
There is 1 way, and it happens to be the same thing that they intend to do, but the reasons are vastly different...same means to a different end. They chose it to be this way, not us. The longer we deny the truth and commit to doing the ugly task that is necessary for the simple purpose of self-preservation (which is still in the Constitution by the way), the stronger they grow and the more difficult it will be to accomplish the task.
Dozer523
12-05-2009, 20:49
How are we so different from them? You honestly do not get it?
It's very simple..
Solid posts on the Muslim thing. Don't agree with all of it still hoping for a middler ground. Grew up believing that the reason there are many different religions is beacuse God (in his infinite wisdom and love) chose to reveal himself in way humans could understand.
Granted, I don't think this is how he was expecting them to keep holy His name but . . . I bet he was disappointed in the crusades, Spanish Inquisition, the forced conversion of the Aztec and Inca, and the Salem witch trials, Extermination camps. (And to a greater degree, JonesTown -- bet He thought we had it figured out.) When He invented the rainbow He said He'd never destroy the world by water. He didin't say He wouldn't destroy it. I guess he gave Christians time to work it out. What is time to God?
Short of total extermination and that is not really an option we have to hope for, encourage, and except nothing less then a needed Muslim Reformation. It can happen because when Martin Luthor went against the Catholic Faith he was excommunicated. (Catholic with a small "c" means universal for a reason).
olhamada
12-05-2009, 21:12
What is it that makes our cause just and their's unjust?
YGBSM :eek:
TRock, you're taking my statement WAY out of context. In context, I was saying that if we just go in and exterminate them all from China to the Ivory Coast, as was suggested, then what does make our cause just and their's unjust - because we'd be no better than them.
What is so wrong about - "ein böses Erwachen" - in America, regarding the serious global threat we're facing :confused:
Free people shouldn’t be kowtowed by an "evil" ideology hell-bent on destroying the kufar and deceiving the public regarding the true nature of what sharia entails
The Politically Correct bunch IMO are criminally complicit in making the populace complacent and furthering the work of the Islamists.
Do we or should we continue to live in a perpetual state of "Hudna" - Jihad is immutable :confused:
olhamada
12-05-2009, 21:21
How are we so different from them? You honestly do not get it?
It's very simple.
It is a radical religious movement that teaches Islam or death and that infidels must convert or be killed or enslaved. Go read it yourself. Do you think the "honor killings" in the news lately are anything new? Hardly. These people, I will remind you, are the ones who recently reached through the windows of a mosque and grabbed women and children by the hair and pulled them up then shot them in the heads, tossed hand grenades into the building full of people, then blew themselves up to kill a few more on their way out. You WILL not, CANNOT reason with them, period. Their belief system and sense of duty in martydom far surpasses any zeal you have witnessed, I assure you...hello, suicide bombers?
--versus--
Self preservation against something that can only be stopped in one way, period.
I lived with them, as have many others here. They aren't going to bend or budge. They have made their goal of global domination openly clear and the world continues to go about their business hoping the crazy guys yelling allah ahkbar will go away. It simply isn't going to happen. They aren't going to let up or stop. If we pull out of A'stan before the job is done RIGHT (not to mention if Obama opens our borders to all like he wants to and gives them open access to our country) then you can bet your ass we will be having random IED strikes here in the good old US of A, then what? Oh man you know it will hit the fan. This country will shut down.
You fence-straddlers, wanna-be politically correct, want to be all-accepting, or just plain wanna-be buddies with muslim types can sing the praises of the "hug 'em to death" crowd all you want. You can say that me and those who think like me are radical right wingers (which is very far from the truth) because you have nothing else to label us as, or did not until the term "Islamophobe" was invented... Say what you will. I'm not blinded by the bullshit of the MSM because I was there.
Until you open your eyes and stop trying to be nice and not piss off the muslims, who by the way are already pissed off and they want to acquire weapons of mass destruction and employ them in the USA to kill every man, woman, and child to remove our seed from the planet forever...and they have openly stated such... until you stop being afraid to call a spade a spade and be honest and if it pisses someone off then f*** em, then they will continue to kill us, plan to kill us, and openly state their plans to kill us and wipe us off the earth. Getting it? THEY say this stuff themselves, nobody is making it up!
You really do not see the difference? It has been staring you in the face for a great many years now...since 1983 at least. Go live with them and learn their culture and beliefs, then come back with facts instead of "I think..." or "I really feel that..." That's horseshit. You can "feel" or "think" whatever you want to. I am telling you what I KNOW.
There is 1 way, and it happens to be the same thing that they intend to do, but the reasons are vastly different...same means to a different end. They chose it to be this way, not us. The longer we deny the truth and commit to doing the ugly task that is necessary for the simple purpose of self-preservation (which is still in the Constitution by the way), the stronger they grow and the more difficult it will be to accomplish the task.
Again, I'm right there with you when it comes to Islam and their culture of death and domination, BUT genocide and the extermination of 1.5 Billion people as you are advocating is not the answer.
Please don't go off on a couple of words, but read the whole post. The sentence was, "If we take this approach (ie - extermination of 1.5 Billion), what makes us any different than them?".
frostfire
12-05-2009, 21:26
Again, I'm right there with you when it comes to Islam and their culture of death and domination, BUT genocide and the extermination of 1.5 Billion people as you are advocating is not the answer.
Please don't go off on a couple of words, but read the whole post. The sentence was, "If we take this approach (ie - extermination of 1.5 Billion), what makes us any different than them?".
They act, we react.
They initiate, we finish.
TRock, you're taking my statement WAY out of context. In context, I was saying that if we just go in and exterminate them all from China to the Ivory Coast, as was suggested, then what does make or cause just and their's unjust - because we'd be no better than them.
If we all played by the same rule book that would be an easy answer, but we don't. If Johnny JiHadi were to come playing in my neighborhood and there is a choice between my families safety versus 'Being Better' than Johnny JiHadi (or any other POS) and Up Holding our Moral Values....then it me or them and you can throw all that PC BS out the window.
olhamada
12-05-2009, 21:46
If we all played by the same rule book that would be an easy answer, but we don't. If Johnny JiHadi were to come playing in my neighborhood and there is a choice between my families safety versus 'Being Better' than Johnny JiHadi (or any other POS) and Up Holding our Moral Values....then it me or them and you can throw all that PC BS out the window.
Agreed.
But look guys, the issue here is not whether or not we need to use force to stop Islam. The ONLY way to stop them is with force - and lots of it.
The point I am making is that complete and total annihilation of 1/4 of the world's population - as is being advocated on this thread - is not the way to go about it.
I know exactly what Muslims are, and how they think. I am not trying to be PC - I can't stand folks who are. It sickens me. I am trying to defeat this enemy, preserve our nation, protect my family, while at the same time, not becoming like them, or Hitler, or Idi Amin, or Pol Pot.
You can't honestly say that you believe extermination is the answer, can you?:confused:
Warrior-Mentor
12-05-2009, 21:46
The thing is...as they believe it...allah doesn't lose wars...once enough battles are lost, it causes a not only a crisis in confidence, it causes a crisis in faith. Clearly allah doesn't lose, so they must be on the wrong track if they are getting their ass kicked.
Remember, this goes back to the fundamental concept that that part of the world respects strength....and might does make right.
In an undiplomatic oversimplification, a good ass kicking will change a lot of attitudes.
Which is why Obama's apology tour is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do...
MOO - but feeding 'The Narrative' with such publicly posited ideological hyperbole - a neo-Protocols of he Learned Elders of Zion concept - is wholly counterproductive to our strategic goals and only furthers the cause of our enemies.
YMMV - but IMO we are the good guys here - and we should act like it.
Richard's $.02
Warrior-Mentor
12-05-2009, 21:56
Richard - What are your thoughts on the rapid end of the War in the Pacific and President Truman's decision?
AUDIO:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Trumann_hiroshima.ogg
GratefulCitizen
12-05-2009, 22:00
The thing is...as they believe it...allah doesn't lose wars...once enough battles are lost, it causes a not only a crisis in confidence, it causes a crisis in faith. Clearly allah doesn't lose, so they must be on the wrong track if they are getting their ass kicked.
Remember, this goes back to the fundamental concept that that part of the world respects strength....and might does make right.
In an undiplomatic oversimplification, a good ass kicking will change a lot of attitudes.
Which is why Obama's apology tour is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do...
Self-preservation instinct is pretty strong in most people.
What was Reagan's response to Libya's mischief?
How did Muammar Gaddafi behave after that?
It was what it was - are you inferring that we should now nuke the Islamic world to attempt a rapid end to the GWOT? :confused:
Richard
rltipton
12-05-2009, 22:11
Again, I'm right there with you when it comes to Islam and their culture of death and domination, BUT genocide and the extermination of 1.5 Billion people as you are advocating is not the answer.
Please don't go off on a couple of words, but read the whole post. The sentence was, "If we take this approach (ie - extermination of 1.5 Billion), what makes us any different than them?".
If I am only to focus on 1 sentence, then please stop at 1 sentence. You said a lot more than 1 sentence and quite literally all of it was based on "I think that.." and "I believe that..." and "I feel that..." Muslim extremists do not give a rat's ass what you believe, think, or feel. They would just as soon cut your head off with a pocket knife and drag you through the streets on CNN as they would to spit in your face.
If there is another way, which would seem logical, then by all means I would (will) advocate it. There is, however, no alternative so long as their OPENLY AND CLEARLY STATED GOAL IS THE COMPLETE ANNIHILATION OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION.
So once again I tell you that the answer to the question you keep asking is right in front of you. I already answered it. It is a question of the same means to a different end.
muslims seek to kill every last person on earth who refuses to follow islam.
vs.
Protection of our way of life via eliminating a very real and aggressive threat to our livelihood.
Stop worrying about asking your question repeatedly and look at the answer. It isn't hard to see if you stop listening to MSM. Take your ass to the 'Stan and live with them for 3 years then come tell us what you "think" we should do.
Look at it this way: A bad man moves in on your street and says he is going to murder everyone on the street as soon as he is able. He murders a few people here and there and gets away with it because he says they deserved it for keeping him and his kind down. He openly states that he is going to kill some more on your street and that you and your family are on his list. Are you going to sit and parrot that crap he is spewing about it not being his fault or are you going to load up the 12 gauge and make a pre-emptive strike to protect your family against the inevitable?
I'm not going to wait until he catches me with my guard down...
1 last time: They will blow themselves up just to kill you. They do not value human life in the same way that we do. You cannot apply any amount of political, financial, or any other kind of pressure to stop them. They will stop when they are dead, whether that is via them splattering themselves all over you and your family at Walmart or via them getting splattered via JDAMS.
Sit and deny it is coming and sooner or later you'll get blowed the f*** up right in the middle of singing We are the World.
Pardon me for not singing along. I know those people. It's obvious you do not. You cannot apply our cultural common sense to them. It doesn't work. They just want to blow you up, and all the money, hugs & kisses, plastic flip-flops, yellow MREs, and shiny trinkets you can give them will NEVER change that.
I am not saying mass genocide is the best way. I'm saying it is the only way. THEY made the rules, not us, and if we play by THEIR rules, then there is absolutely no other option.
These are their rules, not ours, and until we learn those rules and begin playing by them too, we will be in terrible danger.
Warrior-Mentor
12-05-2009, 22:11
I have inferred nothing. It appears as if you have inferred that. :D
in·fer (n-fûr)
v. in·ferred, in·fer·ring, in·fers
v.tr.
1. To conclude from evidence or premises.
2. To reason from circumstance; surmise: We can infer that his motive in publishing the diary was less than honorable.
3. To lead to as a consequence or conclusion: "Socrates argued that a statue inferred the existence of a sculptor" (Academy).
4. To hint; imply.
v.intr.
To draw inferences.
GratefulCitizen
12-05-2009, 22:17
Incidently, if you believe in a sovereign God who knows, sees, and has control over all, have you ever wondered why He allowed Islam to be such a powerful force in our world?
I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."
Genesis 12:3
'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
Matthew 25:40
I believe in such a sovereign God -- who made a promise manifested through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
I believe the promise made in Genesis 12:3 was in reference to Israel.
I believe the Jews were the brothers of Christ, and they are the ones referenced in Matthew 25:40.
I believe it is a test of faith.
I believe it will be centered around Israel and Jerusalem.
I believe the Almighty will leave no middle ground, you will be forced to choose.
My beliefs make me a target in the eyes of many muslims.
I will not submit to their demands or rule, even upon pain of death.
This is my stand, the rest will be sorted out by the Almighty.
Warrior-Mentor
12-05-2009, 22:21
I used to believe that "We all worship the same God at the Wholesale level, we just disagree on the retail level."
Not so.
My old boss, who I respect very much, tried to give me a religious explanation.
I didn't get it until I started reading about the differences in the religions....specifically look at islamic eschatology.
Why?
Goes back to know your enemy and how they think and why. Belief in the end of days is a requirement in islam. Remember Sadr's "Mahdi Army"? His boys believed they were the ones to bring about the chaos necessary before the return of the mahdi and the end of days.
Check out "the Islamic Anti-Christ" by Joel Richardson. It compares islamic, jewish and christian doctrinal eschatology. You'll find that the "islamic jesus" is VERY different from the Christian Jesus.
Interesting stuff.
Wishing the problem away doesn't make it go away...it just makes you a subscriber to the Ostrich Strategy....and you're SF, so I know that's not the case.
Get yourself a present:
http://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Antich...0071873&sr=8-1
Knowing is half the battle.
Digressing...
- Illiterate
- Thief
- Liar
- Polygamist
- Pedophile
- Anti-Semite Racist
- Terrorist
- Mass Murderer
Are those the characteristics of someone God would send to deliver his message?
Of course not.
Before Moo-Ham-Head invented islam to serve his personal needs and massive ego, the polytheists had a different god for every day of the year. Moo-ham-head's favorite was the masculine moon-god - who had many names, one of them was allah.
Christianity equates Satan by the name the Prince of Darkness. Coincidence?
I'm not a subscriber in the end-of-days, but there are millions of people, both muslims and non-muslims, who are...and it's important to understand what motivates them and makes them tick.
I'm-a-nut-job (President of Iran) said himself that he believes in the 12th imam. Do you know why that's significant? Shiite eschatology will tell you...and when you add that with his desire for a nuke, you start reaching scary conclusions...
Ignore it at your own risk Brothers...there's a bunch of wackos who believe this shit...like it or not.
Oriana Fallaci said it well:
"In life and history there are moments when fear is not permitted.
Moments when fear is immoral and uncivilized."
"There are moments when keeping silent becomes a fault,
and speaking an obligation. A civic duty, a moral challenge,
a categorical imperative from which we cannot escape."
I'm not telling you that you need to speak - yet. Right now, I'm telling you that you owe it to your oath to "protect and defend against ALL enemies foreign and domestic..." to KNOW YOUR ENEMY.
Read it, learn it, and if I'm soup - let me know.
See you on the high ground!
I have inferred nothing. It appears as if you have inferred that. :D
in·fer (n-fûr)
v. in·ferred, in·fer·ring, in·fers
v.tr.
1. To conclude from evidence or premises.
2. To reason from circumstance; surmise: We can infer that his motive in publishing the diary was less than honorable.
3. To lead to as a consequence or conclusion: "Socrates argued that a statue inferred the existence of a sculptor" (Academy).
4. To hint; imply.
v.intr.
To draw inferences.
Your disingenuous response to my question - sadly - says it all. :(
Richard
__
BT
I have a hard time believing Mohammed was intelligent enough to put us into this pickle - whatever happens, it appears some sort of stage is being set - mine eyes are focused on Israel - I'm-a-nut-job will eventually speak Hebrew :D
If we all played by the same rule book that would be an easy answer, but we don't. If Johnny JiHadi were to come playing in my neighborhood and there is a choice between my families safety versus 'Being Better' than Johnny JiHadi (or any other POS) and Up Holding our Moral Values....then it me or them and you can throw all that PC BS out the window.With respect, I'd like to raise a small point that is meant as an observation, not a criticism.
Your willingness to set aside your moral values in the defense of your neighborhood and your family creates a tension when juxtaposed with the quotation of Theodore Roosevelt in your signature."The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price,
peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of
soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life."
T Roosevelt This tension is two-fold. First, Roosevelt considered morality inseparable from America's overall well-being.* Consequently, he took great political risks in his efforts to strengthen the moral fabric of America--not the least of which was bolting the GOP to form the Progressive party in 1912.
Second, in his day, there were well-established beliefs that provided "an easy answer" to many of the problems of his age--including the growing tension between America and other parts of the world. Nevertheless, throughout his adult life, Roosevelt refused to settle for an "easy answer" and sought instead sophisticated solutions for complex problems.
While historians and biographers who have studied his life differ on how earnest or successful Roosevelt was on addressing these problems, IMO the evidence strongly suggests that he consistently gave it his best effort even when it cost him socially and personally.
It is my most profound hope that prior to deciding to yield a 'big stick' against the Islamic world, that we as a nation draw from President Roosevelt's example.
YMMV
_______________________________________
* This point is developed in Kathleen Dalton, Theodore Roosevelt: A Strenuous Life (ISBN-13 9780679446637), pp. 300-319.
olhamada
12-05-2009, 22:59
I am not saying mass genocide is the best way. I'm saying it is the only way.
I guess that says it all.
dadof18x'er
12-05-2009, 23:28
I have a hard time believing Mohammed was intelligent enough to put us into this pickle - whatever happens, it appears some sort of stage is being set - mine eyes are focused on Israel - I'm-a-nut-job will eventually speak Hebrew :D
I guess the good old temple mount is the focus, if Israel were to announce that they were making plans to build their temple it could get interesting. But there
have been ton of prophesies already fullfilled.
Warrior-Mentor
12-06-2009, 07:34
I have a hard time believing Mohammed was intelligent enough to put us into this pickle - whatever happens, it appears some sort of stage is being set - mine eyes are focused on Israel - I'm-a-nut-job will eventually speak Hebrew :D
The quran mentions 5 things a Muslim MUST BELIEVE in order to be a Muslim.
These 5 things have, as a result, become a creed of sorts within islam.
From the Quran:
"It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East
and the West; but righteousness is he who believeth in allah
and the Last Day and the Angels and the scripture and
the prophets..."
- Surah 2:177
Notice the order of the 5 TENETS OF BELIEF:
1. Belief in allah.
2. Belief in the Last Day.
3. Belief in angels.
4. Belief in THE scripture.
5. Belief in the prophets.
This is very different from Christianity.
There are no true Muslims who do not believe in the Last Day and the events which precede it. :eek:
Can you see why it might be important to understand the religious anticipations of 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide?
Are you saying (1) there is a 'ranked order' of the things in which a Muslim must believe in order to be rightous in the judgment of God, and (2) that such a belief in a final judgment day and an end of days (a rapture) is far different from Christian belief? :confused:
Richard
rltipton
12-06-2009, 08:07
I guess that says it all.
It does say it all, quite succinctly. They set up the rules to this conflict, not us.
Unlike your posts wherein you want us to focus on one particular sentence or another while you simultaneously tell us not to focus on only one sentence, I want you to read my entire posts.
I want you to read and focus on the entire thing so maybe you will open your eyes and see what is staring you in the face is quite literally death and destruction of everything that you know and love at the hands of the muslims.
On the 1 hand you have radical extremist muslims trying to kill the world, while on the other you have moderate muslims telling you that they are just angry muslims and the rest are peaceful. Yet they attend the same mosques with the radicals, read the same literature, worship the same allah, follow the same mohammed, whose teachings state that is is the righteous muslim who purposely deceives thee infidel...
I'm not trying to convince you to believe me based on some shit I heard on TV. I'm simply telling you what their intentions are. I am telling you what I know that has been told to me by these people you wish to reason with.
The muslims themselves have decided to destroy all non-muslims and they have told this fact to the world, yet you and so many others like you are in denial.
By all means, if you know of a better way to defeat an enemy that is bent on global domination and the murder and enslavement of all who do not convert, then start throwing them out there. Our gubmint has been trying to find a way for 3 decades!
Currently, you are simply uneducated on the matter and are refusing to listen to what the muslims themselves are telling you, so I do not expect you to listen to us non-muslims. haha
The facts are all in your face. Wake the f*** up.
olhamada
12-06-2009, 08:10
The quran mentions 5 things a Muslim MUST BELIEVE in order to be a Muslim.
These 5 things have, as a result, become a creed of sorts within islam.
Notice the order of the 5 TENETS OF BELIEF:
1. Belief in allah.
2. Belief in the Last Day.
3. Belief in angels.
4. Belief in THE scripture.
5. Belief in the prophets.
This is very different from Christianity.
Interesting point.
Maybe we can add a sixth to that? - Belief in Destiny or Fate? (qadar) (I know this one is questionable in some views).
They also have 5 required "practices" or pillars (in no specific order):
1. Zakat - Giving alms (2 1/2% of income) to the poor
2. Salat - Prayer 5 times a day
3. Hajj - Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their lifetime
4. Sawm - Fasting
5. Shahada - Declaration of belief in one god with Muhammed as his prophet.
As Christians we have 5 "essentials" of the faith as well.
1. Belief in the Deity of Jesus Christ.
2. Belief that Christ was born of a virgin.
3. Belief that the scriptures are holy, inspired by God, infallible in the original manuscripts, and inerrant in the original manuscripts.
4. Belief in the literal death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
5. Belief in the literal bodily return of Christ at His Second Coming.
Team Sergeant
12-06-2009, 10:26
It was what it was - are you inferring that we should now nuke the Islamic world to attempt a rapid end to the GWOT? :confused:
Richard
Richard,
I didn't read it the way you are stating either. I read it as a decision that was made by a prior president and how it did change the ideology of an evil people in a rapid manner.
I will say Warrior-Mentor is the most "un"-disingenuous individual I've met in a long long time.
TS
I didn't read it the way you are stating either.
Maybe I did read it wrong - but I was asking for clarification as I was unsure of the context or relevance of what was being asked in relation to the direction of the thread's discussion - a direct answer would have helped.
If I was mistaken - I apologize.
Richard
By all means, if you know of a better way to defeat an enemy that is bent on global domination and the murder and enslavement of all who do not convert, then start throwing them out there. Our gubmint has been trying to find a way for 3 decades!
1. Pull all troops back and hold the boarders with them killing all who try to cross under our nose.
2. Create Fusion power and don't give it to anyone.
3. Create a Nanomite that will infiltrate every human on the planet
4. Program all Nanomites to attack the reproductive system of anyone that is not tagged with a micro chip we create.
5. If you are a member of certain faith you get no micro chip.
You wanted Idea's ive got lots more :)
Warrior-Mentor
12-06-2009, 12:05
Are you saying (1) there is a 'ranked order' of the things in which a Muslim must believe in order to be rightous in the judgment of God, and (2) that such a belief in a final judgment day and an end of days (a rapture) is far different from Christian belief? :confused:
Richard
I'm pointing out the order they are listed in the Koran.
Yes, by the Koran, Muslims are required to believe in those 5 things to be judged righteous in the eyes of allah - NOT GOD.
Don't confuse the two or use them interchangeably - they are different.
And while end of time belief is prominent in the New Testament and in the life of the early church, today belief in the end of days is almost optional or generally ignored by most. Additionally, the Christian understanding is significantly different from the islamic dogma.
One example:
Did you know that islamic jesus (Isa Al-Maseeh) is going to come back and slay all the jews AND Christians who don't convert to islam?
Little different that the Christian understanding of the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Warrior-Mentor
12-06-2009, 12:14
Interesting point.
Maybe we can add a sixth to that? - Belief in Destiny or Fate? (qadar) (I know this one is questionable in some views).
They also have 5 required "practices" or pillars (in no specific order):
1. Zakat - Giving alms (2 1/2% of income) to the poor
2. Salat - Prayer 5 times a day
3. Hajj - Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their lifetime
4. Sawm - Fasting
5. Shahada - Declaration of belief in one god with Muhammed as his prophet.
As Christians we have 5 "essentials" of the faith as well.
1. Belief in the Deity of Jesus Christ.
2. Belief that Christ was born of a virgin.
3. Belief that the scriptures are holy, inspired by God, infallible in the original manuscripts, and inerrant in the original manuscripts.
4. Belief in the literal death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
5. Belief in the literal bodily return of Christ at His Second Coming.
Zakat is 2 1/2% of Net Worth, not income.
And the poor only represent 1/8th of the recipients of the zakat.
At least 1/8th BY SHARIA LAW supports islamic military operations.
Which is why so many islamic charities are indicted and shut down for terror finance.
Some argue that as much as 4 of the 8 categories support violent jihad.
Read this for a summarized explanation of Zakat in islamic law:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23636&highlight=zakat
For a more thorough understanding, read Book H, Zakat in
Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law
by Nu Ha Mim Keller pages 244-276.
Get yours here:
http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Traveller-Classic-Islamic-Al-Salik/dp/0915957728/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260123533&sr=8-1
So don't buy the "Zakat is charity for the poor" bullshit.
Some of it does, but much if not most supports killing our troops and other non-Muslims world-wide.
I'm pointing out the order they are listed in the Koran.
Yes, by the Koran, Muslims are required to believe in those 5 things to be judged righteous in the eyes of allah - NOT GOD.
Don't confuse the two or use them interchangeably - they are different.
And while end of time belief is prominent in the New Testament and in the life of the early church, today belief in the end of days is almost optional or generally ignored by most. Additionally, the Christian understanding is significantly different from the islamic dogma.
One example:
Did you know that islamic jesus (Isa Al-Maseeh) is going to come back and slay all the jews AND Christians who don't convert to islam?
Little different that the Christian understanding of the second coming of Jesus Christ?
:confused: http://www.answers.com/topic/allah
:confused: http://www.answers.com/topic/rapture
:confused: http://www.answers.com/topic/last-judgment
:confused: http://www.answers.com/topic/islamic-view-of-jesus
Warrior-Mentor
12-06-2009, 14:20
Richard - This is exactly what I'm trying to educate people about.
Do you like being duped?
Why not just go ahead and use John Esposito's Dictionary of Islam? :rolleyes:
http://www.investigativeproject.org/1443/john-esposito-reputation-vs-reality
The fact he's accepted over $20 Million for Georgetown from Saudi Prince Bin Talal?
That doesn't bias his writing at all...
Read what's written by Muslims for Muslims.
And as for that explanation of Jesus, did you notice that islam demotes Jesus to merely another prophet, deny Jesus was crucified, and by default rose again, thereby denying that he died for our sins and deny Jesus' divinity. Suppose that's no difference. After all, they both have the same name. :rolleyes:
.
frostfire
12-06-2009, 17:41
Look at it this way: A bad man moves in on your street and says he is going to murder everyone on the street as soon as he is able. He murders a few people here and there and gets away with it because he says they deserved it for keeping him and his kind down. He openly states that he is going to kill some more on your street and that you and your family are on his list. Are you going to sit and parrot that crap he is spewing about it not being his fault or are you going to load up the 12 gauge and make a pre-emptive strike to protect your family against the inevitable?
I'm not going to wait until he catches me with my guard down...
This reminds me of the recent rules of war class I had to take. A CNA told us a hostile he was about to put to sleep thanked him for making him better. To show his gratitude, he'd kill him first quickly. A pre-emptive strike would be unprofessional, and perhaps what the insurgent wished for. However, what if the hostile is resolute to keep his word? Tough place.
With such an extreme (even if it's the only) solution, I wonder how folks like the ones who live in Korphe (Pashtun first, Muslim second) and work with "Dr. Gireg" would react. Of course, I've only read and listened. No first hand experience. This is why I very much desire deployment to these areas. Heard enough from both sides. Time to see it myself and draw my own conclusion.
Warrior-Mentor Sir,
muslims, atheists, etc. who read Christian teaching may throw this around and ask where're the grace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the good 'ol WWJD. When the early Christians were persecuted and faced annihilation from the Romans, the majority did not fight back. Yet, centuries later they still exist and their number grows. Can this scenario apply today? (rhetorical question). The higher ground is indeed a tough place to reach, and to be at.
I personally believe that moslem (particularly in Middle East) do not need non-moslems to start going off on their killing spree. I long for the day of total independence from fossil fuel and somehow a miraculous resolution to the Israel nation problem. The West can then completely leave the Middle East, leaving them to have their own merry Islamic way and secretarian feud, and self terminate.
Warrior-Mentor
12-06-2009, 18:13
Warrior-Mentor Sir,
I personally believe that moslem (particularly in Middle East) do not need non-moslems to start going off on their killing spree. I long for the day of total independence from fossil fuel and somehow a miraculous resolution to the Israel nation problem. The West can then completely leave the Middle East, leaving them to have their own merry Islamic way and secretarian feud, and self terminate.
That makes two of us.
Agreed.
But look guys, the issue here is not whether or not we need to use force to stop Islam. The ONLY way to stop them is with force - and lots of it.
The point I am making is that complete and total annihilation of 1/4 of the world's population - as is being advocated on this thread - is not the way to go about it.
I know exactly what Muslims are, and how they think. I am not trying to be PC - I can't stand folks who are. It sickens me. I am trying to defeat this enemy, preserve our nation, protect my family, while at the same time, not becoming like them, or Hitler, or Idi Amin, or Pol Pot.
You can't honestly say that you believe extermination is the answer, can you?:confused:
My issue with Muslim's is simple, have we seen any massive Muslim protests in the US against their so-called 'Radicals' and their hanus acts???? Why Not? Oh, They are afraid to speak out..........When I have 'personally' asked Muslims about Jihad and/or 9/11 I get the same chin boogie every time.
1. Islam is a Religion of Peace :rolleyes:
2. It is unfortunate that those people died on 9/11
3. But Isreal........blah, blah
4. The OPPRESSED Palestinians
5. or they get red in the face and say nothing at all
Now in my mind those are not answers, they are excuses. And in my opinion skewed or not is that Muslims too a large degree put their allegiance with Allah and the Koran above all. They are unlikely IMO to ever accept me, my way of life and my beliefs.
Based on my experiences, in my mind, it is me or them, my way of life or theirs, a 2 x 4 full of 16d's or me facing Mecca praying 7 times a day.
Extermination based merely on Ethnicity and Religion....while I do not endorse such acts, many in the Religion of Peace look forward to the extermination of non-Muslims.
I just don't see much in the way of compromise, and what compromise there is a one sided affair that appears to come from my side of the fence.
You wanted Idea's ive got lots more :)
All of them excellent. ;)
However, I don't think we have to work that hard. I am under the impression that in most instances, the problem countries have large, poor populations. In addition, public sanitation is less than ideal. Poor nutrition can be a result of overall poverty. This is the sort of environment where naturally occurring diseases spread rapidly and cause substantial death rates. So if we were to simply do nothing - not intervene in any way - then matters might take care of themselves elegantly.
If one supposes that crude oil were to become more expensive and less available, then even though some Islamic countries would gain, others would become poorer - leading to the original scenario.
Can you see why it might be important to understand the religious anticipations of 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide?
Most certainly Sir. Thanks.
Did you know that islamic jesus (Isa Al-Maseeh) is going to come back and slay all the jews AND Christians who don't convert to islam?
Is this where the following hadith come in, where Muslims are told they will kill all Jews at the Last Hour?
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
(related by al-Bukhari)
"I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "
(Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177 - Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar)
FWIW, the above Hadith are incorporated into the Hamas charter...
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
I long for the day of total independence from fossil fuel and somehow a miraculous resolution to the Israel nation problem. The West can then completely leave the Middle East, leaving them to have their own merry Islamic way and secretarian feud, and self terminate.
2nd the motion - total independence from ME oil...
Edited - inability to utilize the quote function properly :-)
I say isolate and go back to farmin and barterin and hangin and rangerin and childrenin and peace-lovin and picnicin. When petro mechanisms run out of juice, the world will isolate according to land mass. Now wouldn't that be easier, since it is already gonna happen soon enough? I say burn all the petro we can, especially if its comin from the Hateful Nations.
(Chuckle) And give them dollars which we degrade. Of course, if we really wanted to use a bare-knuckles approach, we could simply repudiate our debts. :munchin
NMAP, if we can hold out and survive for a bit longer, your prediction of the fall of the Hateful Nations will come to pass.
Not much longer, I think. That's why 7624U's option #1 is essential. If and when their countries fail, they will seek to escape. It is not to our advantage to permit them in.
Certainly we struggle with the desire to exterminate the haters, but patience could easily be rewarded with them imploding from within. It is a risk that I am barely willing to take at this point. Time will tell whether rltipton's scenario is needed. Ultimately, if things continue on our current course, brother rltipton's scheme of manuever is the only solution.
Actually, rltipton's scenario might be relatively simple to implement from a technical perspective; however, there is not currently a consensus to proceed in that direction. Should the consensus change, I am of the opinion that implementation would approach the trivial.
As you suggest, there is a good chance they will implode on their own. Pakistan has a population growth rate approaching 2%. This trend will double their population in 36 years. With a per capita income of about $1000 per year, they may represent a vulnerable area.
Since they seem to be oil importers, a spike in oil prices might well cause the meltdown.
Sad thing is that we to will experience a partial implosion, thanks to our own home grown and imported haters. A tall tree and short rope should fix much of our internal problems. Half of these homies wouldn't even need a rope. They could be hung by their high dollar neck ties.
Hear! Hear! Secure the borders. No one in, and free tickets for all that want out. I'll pay my fair share of taxes for that.:munchin:lifter
Solve et coagula. Old patterns must be dissolved before they can reform (or coagulate).
And yes, those borders need to be sealed tight. Very tight and very soon, IMHO.
...Muslims are required to believe in those 5 things to be judged righteous in the eyes of allah - NOT GOD.
Don't confuse the two or use them interchangeably - they are different.
One example:
Did you know that islamic jesus (Isa Al-Maseeh) is going to come back and slay all the jews AND Christians who don't convert to islam?
Sir, can you cite the source of the above? I'm not discounting but rather interesting in learning more.
lindy, this may be some of it ... ?
1. Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 7015
2. Sideeque M.A. Veliankode, Doomsday Portents and Prophecies (Scarborough, Canada, 1999), p. 351
3. Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0293, Narrated by Jabir bin ‘Abdullah
4. Veliankode, p. 350
5. Sais I-Nursi, The Rays, The Fifth Ray, p. 493, as quoted in Harun Yahya, Jesus will Return, (London, Ta Ha, 2001), p. 66
6. Ayatullah Baqir al-Sadr and Ayatullah Murtada Mutahhari, The Awaited Savior, (Karachi, Islamic Seminary Publications), prologue, p. 3
7. Hakim Mustadrak (2:651) # 4162 as related by Abu Harayra quoted in Kabbani, p. 237
8. Sahih Ashrat as-Sa’at, as quoted in Kabbani, p. 236
9. Veliankode, p. 351
10. Mufti Mohammad Shafi and Mufti Mohammad Rafi Usmani, Signs of the Qiyama and the Arrival of the Maseeh, (Karachi, Darul Ishat, 2000), p. 60
11. Kabbani, p. 237
12. Al-Sadr and Mutahhari, prologue p. 3
13. Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 37, Number 4310, Narrated by Abu Hurayrah: see also Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656
14. Shafi, Usmani, p. 59
15. Veliankode, p. 358
16. Yahya, p.52
17. The Reliance of the Traveller and Tools of the Worshipper, a Classic Manuel of Islamic Sacred Law, Translated by Noah Ha Mim Keller, (Amana Publications, Beltsville Maryland, revised 1994) p. 603.
18. Muhammad Ali Ibn Zubair WhoIis the Evil Dajjal (the "anti-Christ")
19. Veliankode, p. 360, Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656
20. Muhammad Ali Ibn Zubair, The Signs of Qiyama, translated by M. Afzal Hoosein Elias
21. Sunan Abu Dawood, Book 37, Number 4310 Narrated by AbuHurayrah:
22. Tirmidhi, as quoted in Jesus (Isa) A.S. in Islam, and his Second Coming by Mufti A.H. Elias
Edited to add this too: http://www.scribd.com/doc/22173808/Sahih-Muslim-Book-41-The-Book-Pertaining-to-the-Turmoil-and-Portents-of-the-Last-Hour-Kitab-Al-Fitan-wa-Ashrat-As-Sa-ah
3. Create a Nanomite that will infiltrate every human on the planet
4. Program all Nanomites to attack the reproductive system of anyone that is not tagged with a micro chip we create.
5. If you are a member of certain faith you get no micro chip.
Some people believe such pogroms are already underway.
Death Chip at the Tip of the Needle?
http://revolutionradio.org/?p=23947
This one is currently being passed around among the ultra-right in Europe and came to me via an Officer I knew in Bad Tolz in 1977 who now belongs to such a group. :eek:
And so it goes...
Richard
[COLOR="orange"]This one is currently being passed around among the ultra-right in Europe and came to me via an Officer I knew in Bad Tolz in 1977 who now belongs to such a group. :eek:
And so it goes...
Richard
At the risk of mixing threads ( LINK (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26331) ), I cannot help but wonder if this is just a reaction to the widespread imposition of political correctness. When we note in our everyday activities that certain information is avoided - not exactly suppressed, but definitely discouraged - then it may be that suspicions are aroused.
Let us consider the TSA and air transportation. Various legal concerns prevent profiling of Muslims. However, Muslims seem to be the predominant threat. So we can see at least one instance that is likely to produce a disconnect between reality and policy.
Until we can exchange ideas freely and openly, even if they're uncomfortable or worse, then I think the effect you mention will persist. More problematic is the "pressure cooker" effect, where views that are not permitted develop a power they might not have if they were expressed in the open. MOO, YMMV.