18C New Demo Knife Thread

[NousDefionsDoc]

They're kind of shy:D so I'll get the ball rolling. First things first:

What would you Charlies like to see in a demo knife?

[Roguish Lawyer]

If I may, perhaps TR could persuade Command Sergeant Major Tabata to share some thoughts, whether directly or indirectly. Just a thought . . .

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
If I may, perhaps TR could persuade Sgt. Tabata to share some thoughts, whether directly or indirectly. Just a thought . . .

That's "Command Sergeant Major" (CSM) Tabata to you!!!!

Get down and knock them out!

TS
MASTER SERGEANT
Special Forces
(retired)

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
That's "Command Sergeant Major" (CSM) Tabata to you!!!!

Get down and knock them out!

TS
MASTER SERGEANT
Special Forces
(retired)

Yes, Master Sergeant!

Jeez, what do I know? :(

[The Reaper]

Already called CSM Tabata, he is out on the range for a few days. I may have to go visit training for some input.

I would say that based on my SF Engineer experience, strict 18C demo tasks include cutting Demo Charge Blocks, cutting tape, measuring and cutting time fuze, shock tube and det cord, cutting wire, punching cap wells into demo, and crimping caps.

SF Engineer construction tasks include pretty much everything in light vertical construction tasks, so pliers, screwdrivers, saws, hammers, cutters, scribes, etc. would be routine.

Common SF tasks would include weapons maintenance, opening crates and boxes, cutting a variety of items, food prep, field expedient construction and vehicle repairs, survival, routine domestic chores, etc.

Having said all of that, I hate to keep coming back to this point, but I have to maintain that a knife like the New Wave, perhaps a bit larger in scale, subdued in color, with a better blade steel, crimpers, a longer blade, an awl, and a few extra bits packaged into a kit would meet almost every requirement here.

The world, missions, and our SF equipment have changed. A tool box would be nice, but impractical, a nice folder would be great, but would lack many of the features desired, like pliers and bits that every SF MOS needs for their gear, I think a Demo Knife today has to be a multi-tool and the New Wave is the best of the choices. It could still be improved upon though.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

[brownapple]

I seem to remember that Leatherman made a demo version of the Leatherman for a while (my demo guys had it in black). Crimpers were shit if I remember correctly, but the fact that they tried it once says to me that they might be willing to try again with the right input.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Being a CSM and getting to visit training must be so cool. Just get up, put on your hat and ride out. Too bad some of them use it to be nit picky about other stuff.

Visiting training is the kind of stuff I would do if I was a CSM. I'd do it so much the troops wouldn't be worried about the motive for the visit.

RL - with rank, its better to promote than demote if you don't know for sure.:D

Everybody is at least a CSM or Colonel until proven otherwise. LOL

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by Greenhat
I seem to remember that Leatherman made a demo version of the Leatherman for a while (my demo guys had it in black). Crimpers were shit if I remember correctly, but the fact that they tried it once says to me that they might be willing to try again with the right input.

I had one, only ever used the crimpers once. The rest was ok.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
RL - with rank, its better to promote than demote if you don't know for sure.:D

Everybody is at least a CSM or Colonel until proven otherwise. LOL

Thank you, Command Sergeant Major! LOL

[NousDefionsDoc]

WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD A FREAKIN' KNIFE HERE!

[NousDefionsDoc]

Sounds like maybe what we need to do is come up with an innovative way to incorporate a decent set of crimpers.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Sounds like maybe what we need to do is come up with an innovative way to incorporate a decent set of crimpers.

Easily done, all you do is give up a significant piece of the strongest part of the plier jaws.

TR

[brownapple]

Maybe dump the non-needlenose portion of the pliers. Put the crimper in that area.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by Greenhat
Maybe dump the non-needlenose portion of the pliers. Put the crimper in that area.

I was thinking the same thing....

[brownapple]

http://www.leathermancharge.com/xtigallery.aspx

Seems Leatherman is already going in this direction...

[The Reaper]

Here is where they have put it.

TR

[Kyobanim]

I've got an older version of this Gerber 600 that has a crimper located behind the joint though I wish it was in front of the joint in place of the cutter. Would make it more convenient.
http://www.gerberblades.com/products/view.php?model=7500

[Kyobanim]

Further searching led to this Multi-plier 600 DET http://www.gerberblades.com/products/view.php?model=7400

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Kyobanim
Further searching led to this Multi-plier 600 DET

Got one of the Gerbers.

Not a fan in practical use.

TR

[Bill Harsey]

I was going to mention the Gerber and ask what you thought of it. Looks like that's done. I am paying attention here.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
I am paying attention here.

Bill, just curious, have you made a utility knife like the Leatherman before?

[Bill Harsey]

TR, What is the problem with the Gerber?

[Bill Harsey]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Bill, just curious, have you made a utility knife like the Leatherman before? No.

[Kyobanim]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
TR, What is the problem with the Gerber?

Obviously, my needs are different and I'm not TR but as much as I like the overall usefullness of the tool I find that:
1. it's cumbersome to open with one hand
2. needs an awl type device
3. would rather have longer shanks for the screwdriver heads
4. I've also seen these types of knives with a small replaceable hacksaw blade.

[Smokin Joe]

Just a thought

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
TR, What is the problem with the Gerber?

Poor design.
Poor quality materials.
Poor workmanship.
Foreign owned company.
Occasionally hard to open, even with gravity knife design.
Pliers pinch.
Blades are on inside, takes several steps to retrieve a blade.
Blades clump.
Pliers PINCH!
Very limited selection of blades.
Cheap steel
Blades do not lock.
PLIERS PINCH!!

That enough for starters?

If Tim ever responded, I would help him with more input to his product , but I suspect that I either scared him off or gave him a year's work in our last commo.

HTH.

Joe:

They would stick out when closed.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

Who owns Gerber?

[mffjm8509]

If you are trying to put it all in one knife I'd like to see it with a crimper that places a double crimp on a cap similar to the newer crimpers being fielded.

but having said that, and being a former 18C.......why not just carry a quality set of crimpers designed and used for its purpose and a sharp knife of your preference? I rarely use more than crimpers, a tape measure, and a knife on a demo range anyway..

mp

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Who owns Gerber?

Since one of their designers is not here to answer for himself, FISKARS!

The former Company leadership has a smaller competing firm now, IIRC.

Maybe someone will share details....

TR

[Bill Harsey]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Who owns Gerber? Correct answer Sir Reaper. Gerber is owned by Fiskars in Finland. Same country we get Suunto watches from.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Correct answer Sir Reaper. Gerber is owned by Fiskars in Finland. Same country we get Suunto watches from.

And home of Tuukka!

I like the watches and Fiskars does make nice scissors, though.

Which U.S. knife company in the same area were we talking about?

TR

[Bill Harsey]

I believe you are referring to Lone Wolf Knives, started by a past president of Gerber and one of his top guys while there. They make a couple folders of mine using the CPM S-30V steel. Lone Wolf is in Portland Oregon.

[Ambush Master]

That's a Lone Wolf T2 (CPM-S30V) that I carry, and it is one hell'uva Knife. The blade/edge is practically indestructable, and has easily been recovered when I have "dinged" it. Other than a slight "discoloration" problem, that was easily cured, it is flawless !!!!

Take care.
Martin

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Ambush Master
That's a Lone Wolf T2 (CPM-S30V) that I carry, and it is one hell'uva Knife. The blade/edge is practically indestructable, and has easily been recovered when I have "dinged" it. Other than a slight "discoloration" problem, that was easily cured, it is flawless !!!!

Take care.
Martin

Sounds sweet.

Man, I might have to get me one of those!

TR

[Adam White]

The official NAVSCOLEOD take on the demo knife thing is that it must be, above all else, a fixed blade design. Presumably, this is to eliminate sparking risk.

Your take?

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Adam White
The official NAVSCOLEOD take on the demo knife thing is that it must be, above all else, a fixed blade design. Presumably, this is to eliminate sparking risk.

Your take?

I have never seen a folding knife spark while opening the blade.

I have used folders and fixed blades to make a spark with a flint or mag bar.

Sounds more like either a speed/ease of use requirement, or someone writing the requirements to favor a certain manufacturer.

TR

[Bill Harsey]

Originally posted by Adam White
The official NAVSCOLEOD take on the demo knife thing is that it must be, above all else, a fixed blade design. Presumably, this is to eliminate sparking risk.

Your take? Just a guess from me but probably so there would be no joint failure or accidental closing when the knife is used hard. Also a fixed blade is harder to lose because they are usually bigger than a folder. This may be a factor at night or in water. Speaking of water, this often involves gloves and it's hard to draw and open a folder wearing gloves. You can reach down and draw a fixed blade from a sheath while diving. Going back to my first point, good fixed blades are stronger than good folders because they don't have the pivot joint.

[NousDefionsDoc]

So where are we on this?:D

[Ambush Master]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
So where are we on this?:D

GONE FISHING !!!

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Ambush Master
GONE FISHING !!!

With a very large, powerful rifle.

TR

[Smokin Joe]

Originally posted by The Reaper
With a very large, powerful rifle.

TR

What did you guys quit using hand grenades and dynamite? :munchin

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Smokin Joe
What did you guys quit using hand grenades and dynamite? :munchin

You are talking about Harsey, not me.

You will have to ask him.

TR

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by Smokin Joe
What did you guys quit using hand grenades and dynamite? :munchin

How primitive!

You mean "DuPont Lures"?:D

TS

[Smokin Joe]

Originally posted by The Reaper
You are talking about Harsey, not me.

You will have to ask him.

TR


No offense intended, Sir.


Originally posted by Team Sergeant

How primitive!

You mean "DuPont Lures"?

TS


Thats good stuff. :D