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Warrior-Mentor

12-03-2009, 15:13

SOURCE:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/12/so-was-this-a-language-misunde.html

So, was this a language misunderstanding or terrorist dry run?

10:13 AM Wed, Dec 02, 2009
Terry Maxon/Reporter

A reader called me, then sent me an email Wednesday morning about an incident that occurred Nov. 17 on an AirTran Airways flight 297.

According to an Atlanta Journal Constitution story, the flight was delayed two and a half hours after a confrontation between some passengers and the flight crew.

The AJC story quoted a passenger sitting toward the back of the airplane who recounted what she saw. That passenger thought it was just a problem with miscommunication.

But there's an email circulating, apparently going viral, from a Texan on the flight, who describes what appeared to him to be a practice run by a bunch of 11 terrorists:

* A guy in the front section talking by phone to a guy in the back, and both refusing to shut off their phones.

* Two in the back watching a porno on a camcorder.

* All 11 got up together to walk in the aisle.

According to the story and/or the emailer, Transportation Security Administration officials and police officers boarded the airplane. A group of 13 people were taken off. After a time, 11 reboarded the airplane, and the newspaper said . Then the pilots and flight attendants walked off the airplane and were replaced with a new crew. Some passengers, including the emailer, decided to take a later flight.

Very curious.

We've had a number of other instances when alarmed passengers witnessed what they thought were terrorist dry runs, followed by airline apologies and accusations of religious or ethnic insensitivity.

Read the AJC by clicking on that link in the first paragraph, then read the email below.

One week ago, I went to Ohio on business and to see my father. On Tuesday, November 17, I returned home. If you read the papers, you may have seen a blurb where an AirTran flight was cancelled from Atlanta to Houston due to a man who refused to get off of his cell phone before takeoff. It was on Fox.

That was NOT what happened!

I was in first class coming home. Eleven muslim men got on the plane in full attire. Two sat in first class and the rest peppered themselves throughout the plane all the way to the back. As the plane taxied to the runway, the stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar with. At that time, one of the men got on his cell and called one of his companions in the back and proceeded to talk on the phone in Arabic very loudly and very aggressively. This took the first stewardess out of the picture for she repeatedly told the man that cell phones were not permitted at the time. He ignored her as if she wasn't there.

The second man who answered the phone did the same and this took out the second stewardess. In the back of the plane at this time, 2 younger muslims, one in the back aisle, and one in front of him, window, began to show footage of a porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud about it. Now, they are only permitted to do this prior to Jihad. If a Muslim man goes into a strip club, he has to view the woman via mirror with his back to her (don't ask me, I don't make the rules, but I've studied). The third stewardess informed them that they were not to have electronic devices on at this time. To which one of the men said, "Shut up, infidel dog!" She went to take the camcorder and he began to scream in her face in Arabic.

At that exact moment, all 11 of them got up and started to walk to the cabin. This is where I had had enough! I got up and started to the back where I heard a voice behind me from another Texan twice my size say, "I got your back." I grabbed the man who had been on the phone by the arm and said, "you WILL go sit down or you Will be thrown from this plane!" As I led him around me to take his seat, the fellow Texan grabbed him by the back of his neck and his waist and headed out with him. I then grabbed the second man and said, "You WILL do the same!" He protested but adrenaline was flowing now and he was going to go. As I escorted him forward, the plane doors open and 3 TSA agents and 4 police officers entered. Me and my new Texan friend were told to cease and desist for they had this under control. I was happy to oblige actually. There was some commotion in the back, but within moments, all 11 were escorted off the plane. They then unloaded their luggage.

We talked about the occurrence and were in disbelief that it had happened, when suddenly, the door opened again and on walked all eleven!! Stone faced, eyes front and robotic (the only way I can describe it). The stewardess from the back had been in tears and when she saw this, she was having NONE of it! Being that I was up front, I heard and saw the whole ordeal. She told the TSA agent there was NO WAY she was staying on the plane with these men. The agent told her they had searched them and were going to go through their luggage with a fine tooth comb and that they were allowed to proceed to Houston. The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent, "we and our crew will not fly this plane!" After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left the plane. Five minutes later, the cabin door opened again and a whole new crew walked on.

Again, this is where I had had enough!! I got up and asked, "What the hell is going on?" I was told to take my seat. They were sorry for the delay and I would be home shortly. I said, "I'm getting off this plane." The stewardess sternly told me that she could not allow me to get off.

Now I'm mad! I said, "I am a grown man who bought this ticket, who's time is mine with a family at home and I am going through that door, or I'm going through that door with you under my arm!! But I am going through that door!!" And I heard a voice behind me say, "So am I." Then everyone behind us started to get up and say the same. Within 2 minutes, I was walking off that plane where I was met with more agents who asked me to write a statement. I had 5 hours to kill at this point so why the hell not. Due to the amount of people who got off that flight, it was cancelled. I was supposed to be in Houston at 6pm. I got here at 12:30am.

Look up the date. Flight 297, Atlanta to Houston.

If this wasn't a dry run, I don't know what one is. They wanted to see how TSA would handle it, how the crew would handle it, and how the passengers would handle it.

I'm telling this to you because I want you to know. The threat is real. I saw it with my own eyes.

MORE SOURCES:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/17508

http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2009/12/02/another-terrorist-dry-run/

Another Terrorist Dry Run: Part II Interview With Witness Dr. Keith Robinson
http://www.melissaclouthier.com/2009/12/03/another-terrorist-dry-run-part-ii-interview-with-witness-dr-keith-robinson/

Info on Dr Robinson:
http://www.speakermatch.com/keynotespeakers/602725113.htm

http://espositosmusings.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/air-tran-flight-297-incident1.pdf

WEAK REPORTING BY FOX NEWS:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575558,00.html

And, for what it's worth, SNOPES:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/flight297.asp

BRAVO-SMASH

12-03-2009, 15:38

That got my adrenaline running just reading that! Im happy to hear he took the actions he did to control the situation on the plane until authorities arrived and for taking a later flight which in turn influenced others to follow.

PSM

12-03-2009, 16:25

I was in first class coming home.

AirTran doesn't have first class.

Eleven muslim men got on the plane in full attire. Two sat in first class and the rest peppered themselves throughout the plane all the way to the back. As the plane taxied to the runway, the stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar with.

(...)

As I escorted him forward, the plane doors open and 3 TSA agents and 4 police officers entered.

How did TSA get on a taxing a/c?

The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent, "we and our crew will not fly this plane!" After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left the plane. Five minutes later, the cabin door opened again and a whole new crew walked on.

A full reserve crew in 5 minutes? I don't think so.

A self-aggrandizing exaggeration if nothing else.

Pat

The Reaper

12-03-2009, 16:44

Anyone else smell a lawsuit, if this is true?

TR

Dozer523

12-03-2009, 17:28

rubberneck

12-03-2009, 18:21

I'm with PSM.
Add: Jihadists goin' to see the virgins after watching porn. (Right, maybe a training film.)
and: "Shut up Infidel dog" (why not just say "I Kill You" and try to look like a skeleton?)
Way too much drama. Terry Maxon's a sucker.

I dunno, the 9/11 hijkackers spent a considerable amount of time at strip clubs down in Florida while undergoing flight training.

Warrior-Mentor

12-03-2009, 18:27

We'll see what happens when the dust settles...which is why I checked snopes before putting it up here...figured if any site would de-bunk this snopes would...

PSM

12-03-2009, 18:36

We'll see what happens when the dust settles...which is why I checked snopes before putting it up here...figured if any site would de-bunk this snopes would...

Perhaps. ;)

Pat

LongWire

12-03-2009, 18:50

Damn I was gonna post this up last night but thought better of it. Not sure how to feel on this, snopes has a mixed response which indicates that something happened, but they cant get to the bottom of it.

I don't think that they would have been wearing full garb for a dry run. Maybe something more like trying to see what response it would garner if they all started getting out of hand.

What is interesting is the response to some of this. I have seen at other sites where other people have had problems with small groups of Arab men on commercial aircraft. This is not the only incident.

Warrior-Mentor

12-04-2009, 07:57

Perhaps. ;)

Pat

Understand your cynicism. My point was that the very liberal couple from San Francisco would be happy to shut down a rumor like this if they could.

Warrior-Mentor

12-04-2009, 08:06

Damn I was gonna post this up last night but thought better of it.

PC Monster got your tongue? :p

Out of fairness to you, it did seem "SO OUT THERE" that I did more digging before posting as well - hence all the links in my original post - which included snopes. It had "URBAN LEGEND" written all over it.

Not sure how to feel on this, snopes has a mixed response which indicates that something happened, but they cant get to the bottom of it.

What bothers me is the lack of media coverage. If this happened on a flight, there would have been a plane load of witnesses (anyone seen an empty flight lately?) What we need are video interviews posted on the web. Any video should start with a copy of their boarding pass or receipt for the flight.

I don't think that they would have been wearing full garb for a dry run. Maybe something more like trying to see what response it would garner if they all started getting out of hand.

"FLYING IMAMS" ring a bell? of course they would have worn full kit for a DRY RUN. Why not? One more excuse to claim "RACISM."

What is interesting is the response to some of this. I have seen at other sites where other people have had problems with small groups of Arab men on commercial aircraft. This is not the only incident.

You should expect we'll be seeing more of this. Not to mention a law suit from CAIR against anyone who complained and the Airlines for enforcing safety standards...

This is gonna be a long war unless we pull our heads out of our Arse.

longrange1947

12-04-2009, 10:53

My problem is that the PC monster will and does kill.

Solution, regardless of color, creed, religion, thought process, or screaming lawsuit, anyone acting out on an airplane should be deplaned and thoroughly vetted. I mean it should make a background check look like a walk in the park. We have fools that will allow behavior that can only be explained as checking out security and they are then allowed back on the plane.

Boot their a**es and if it was innocent, remind them that they broke the rules and forfeited their tickets, tough s**t, have a nice flight on another airline. Take their names and photos and ban them from that airline.

Right now, there are absolutely no consequences for their action save a bunch of money via a lawsuit. Make those consequences severe enough to put an end to the BS and once again home.

Rant off for now but dam this PC shit is pissing me off.

PedOncoDoc

12-04-2009, 11:02

AF IDMT

12-04-2009, 11:34

If this did occur and was in fact a "dry run", I'm confused as to why they would do it on the ground. I can't belive they would be stupid enough to announce their intentions prior to lift-off. Seeing the response time to TSA is nice and all, but it would be more important to see the response from common passengers and aircrew, as it would be upon the passengers, crew and onboard marshalls to thwart a plot once airborn. I feel they may be "testing the waters" with the population in general and not testing the response time from the TSA/ground grew. If there was minimal response from the people on the plane, it might be encouragement to move proceed with further planning for another massive attack...

From Dictionary dot com

ter⋅ror⋅ism
–noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Terrorist don't have to actually cause bodily harm to still be committing an act of terrorism.

I agree this smells a little fishy, but just a little. Woudn't surprise me either way, unfortunately.

brown77

12-04-2009, 12:39

any chance it could have been a security/staff drill?? :munchin

PSM

12-04-2009, 13:14

any chance it could have been a security/staff drill?? :munchin

No.

A delayed flight knocks over a lot of dominoes!

Pat

greenberetTFS

12-04-2009, 14:31

PSM

12-04-2009, 22:17

Way too much drama. Terry Maxon's a sucker.

So it would seem:

AirTran responds to passenger's terrorism email
11:43 AM Fri, Dec 04, 2009 | Permalink
Terry Maxon/Reporter Bio | E-mail | News tips

We have two updates on the AirTran Airways incident Nov. 17 that has gotten many people agitated.

Flight 297 was delayed for about two and a half hours because some passengers wouldn't comply with orders from flight attendants. (We all agree on that, right?)

A passenger originally on that flight sent out an email saying it appeared to him to have the look of a terrorist dry run, and that email has gone viral. It's probably driven AirTran nutty trying to respond to it.

In the latest developments, Houston television station KHOU has done a story about the flight and has talked to the man who sent the email, Tedd Petruna. You can click this link to see the story.

The station quoted Petruna as saying: ""I'm glad it got out. Due to personal and financial reasons, I can't speak about this."

The report said Petruna "admits that his description of the men's attire was wrong, and he admits he didn't personally see anyone watching pornographic videos."

And AirTran has posted a long message on its internal web site responding to the email point by point, and cites many discrepancies between what Petruna's email claimed and what it says its investigation found out.

"We bring this to your attention in order to dispel myths that are beginning to make the rounds in chat rooms, blogs and conspiracy theorists' Web sites," AirTran told its employees.

Below, we have the entire AirTran message.

AirTran 297- Anatomy of an Urban Legend

Posted on 04 December 2009

On November 17, 2009, AirTran flight 297 was scheduled to travel from Atlanta to Houston-Hobby. During taxi a passenger was non-compliant with Crew Members, using a cell phone and taking pictures. The flight taxied back to the gate and the passenger, who did not speak English, and his companion acting as his interpreter were asked to de-plane. They were met by customer service personnel and TSA.

The passengers were allowed to re-board and continued on the flight after speaking with AirTran and TSA representatives. The flight was delayed by more than two hours.

Since the flight and initial media reports, several blogs and Internet sites have recounted the incident as portrayed by a passenger originally scheduled for the flight. Below is that passenger's account (unedited in any way including spelling and grammar), as reported on several blogs. Highlighted between the passenger's account, are the factually accurate circumstances surrounding this incident.

We bring this to your attention in order to dispel myths that are beginning to make the rounds in chat rooms, blogs and conspiracy theorists' Web sites.
________________________________________

CONTINUED:

PSM

12-04-2009, 22:30

Part 2:

------------------------------------------------------------------

I was in first class coming home. Eleven muslim men got on the plane in full attire. Two sat in first class and the rest peppered themselves throughout the plane all the way to the back.

The full party was 13 individuals. Their religion is not known to anyone at AirTran. The individuals in this party proceeded to their seats throughout the aircraft and were dressed like any other passenger.

As the plane taxied to the runway, the stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar with. At that time, one of the men got on his cell and called one of his companions in the back and proceeded to talk on the phone in Arabic very loudly and very aggressively. This took the first stewardess out of the picture for she repeatedly told the man that cell phones were not permitted at the time. He ignored her as if she wasn't there.

There have been no reports of any individual phoning any other individual on the flight. Furthermore it would be extremely difficult to know who someone is calling. If they are calling someone in the back of the plane, the person listening in on this conversation would not be able to hear the person in the back of the plane nor know where the call was going to.

The second man who answered the phone did the same and this took out the second stewardess. In the back of the plane at this time, 2 younger muslims, one in the back aisle, and one in front of him, window, began to show footage of a porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud about it.

It would be impossible to know what people were allegedly watching or whom they were speaking with in the back of the plane from Business Class. Furthermore, how would anyone know what was on this alleged videotape or when it was made?

Now, they are only permitted to do this prior to Jihad. If a Muslim man goes into a strip club, he has to view the woman via mirror with his back to her (don't ask me, I don't make the rules, but I've studied). The third stewardess informed them that they were not to have electronic devices on at this time. To which one of the men said, "Shut up, infidel dog!" She went to take the camcorder and he began to scream in her face in Arabic.

While the flight attendants did ask an individual to discontinue the use of portable electronic devices, there are no reports of screaming or shouting insults to our Crew Members.

At that exact moment, all 11 of them got up and started to walk to the cabin. This is where I had had enough! I got up and started to the back where I heard a voice behind me from another Texan twice my size say, "I got your back." I grabbed the man who had been on the phone by the arm and said, "you WILL go sit down or you Will be thrown from this plane!"

There are no reports of any passenger standing up in a threatening manner. At NO time was there any physical altercation between passengers. Upon returning to the gate, the individual on the phone and his party were asked to de-plane and did so in full compliance of Crew Members' instructions.

As I led him around me to take his seat, the fellow Texan grabbed him by the back of his neck and his waist and headed out with him. I then grabbed the second man and said, "You WILL do the same!"

This is simply untrue. At NO time was there any physical altercation between passengers.

He protested but adrenaline was flowing now and he was going to go. As I escorted him forward, the plane doors open and 3 TSA agents and 4 police officers entered.

At no time did any law enforcement or Transportation Security Administration (TSA) official enter the aircraft. Two TSA inspectors came to the gate to assess the situation and spoke with the individual involved and his party.

Me and my new Texan friend were told to cease and desist for they had this under control. I was happy to oblige actually. There was some commotion in the back, but within moments, all 11 were escorted off the plane. They then unloaded their luggage.

The entire party complied fully with Crew Members' instructions to exit the aircraft in order to ascertain the situation. Their bags were not removed at any time.

We talked about the occurrence and were in disbelief that it had happened, when suddenly, the door opened again and on walked all eleven!!

After determining none of the individuals posed a security threat to the aircraft, the party was allowed to re-plane.

Stone faced, eyes front and robotic (the only way I can describe it). The stewardess from the back had been in tears and when she saw this, she was having NONE of it! Being that I was up front, I heard and saw the whole ordeal. She told the TSA agent there was NO WAY she was staying on the plane with these men.

There was no TSA or law enforcement agent ever on the plane.

The agent told her they had searched them and were going to go through their luggage with a fine tooth comb and that they were allowed to proceed to Houston.

There was no TSA agent on the plane and there was no additional screening of anyone's bags.

The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent, "we and our crew will not fly this plane!" After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left the plane. Five minutes later, the cabin door opened again and a whole new crew walked on.

The crews were swapped. This is a common occurrence in the aviation industry for any number of reasons. If a Crew Member cannot or will not continue a flight, we must replace that Crew Member.

Again, this is where I had had enough!! I got up and asked, "What the hell is going on?" I was told to take my seat. They were sorry for the delay and I would be home shortly. I said, "I'm getting off this plane." The stewardess sternly told me that she could not allow me to get off.

Now I'm mad! I said, "I am a grown man who bought this ticket, who's time is mine with a family at home and I am going through that door, or I'm going through that door with you under my arm!! But I am going through that door!!"

At no time did any AirTran Crew Member refuse to allow a passenger off the plane. Had any passenger threatened a Crew Member, we would have taken appropriate action, including contacting law enforcement.

And I heard a voice behind me say, "So am I." Then everyone behind us started to get up and say the same. Within 2 minutes, I was walking off that plane where I was met with more agents who asked me to write a statement. I had 5 hours to kill at this point so why the hell not. Due to the amount of people who got off that flight, it was cancelled. I was supposed to be in Houston at 6pm. I got here at 12:30am.

After offering all passengers the opportunity to de-plane the aircraft, 12 individuals decided to not take this flight and opted to be re-booked. AirTran officials did not request any passenger to complete an official statement.

The flight was not cancelled and did continue to Houston-Hobby.

Look up the date. Flight 297, Atlanta to Houston.

The flight was not cancelled and did continue to Houston-Hobby.

If this wasn't a dry run, I don't know what one is. They wanted to see how TSA would handle it, how the crew would handle it, and how the passengers would handle it.

I'm telling this to you because I want you to know. The threat is real. I saw it with my own eyes.

The flight was not cancelled and did continue to Houston-Hobby.

The TSA determined this was a customer service issue. The party continued on the flight to Houston-Hobby that evening without further incident.

Link: Dallas Moning News. (http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/12/we-have-two-updates-on.html)

Pat

EDIT to add: I do believe that the BGs are testing us. I just don't want the "Cry Wolf" syndrome to weaken our SA.

Warrior-Mentor

12-05-2009, 05:12

Part 2:

Link: Dallas Moning News.[/i] (http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/12/we-have-two-updates-on.html)

Pat

EDIT to add: I do believe that the BGs are testing us. I just don't want the "Cry Wolf" syndrome to weaken our SA.

Thanks Pat. I agree with your assessment.

I would still like to read what other passengers on the flight had to say.

alfromcolorado

12-05-2009, 07:41

Perhaps. ;)

Pat

Snopes is just a source of information that must be analyzed like any other information.

The problem with the internet is that it is used for the dissemination of so much agenda driven drivel that its use as a research tool is degraded.

To get to information you have to wade through endless crap...

alfromcolorado

12-05-2009, 07:44

ROGER THAT.

My problem is that the PC monster will and does kill.

Solution, regardless of color, creed, religion, thought process, or screaming lawsuit, anyone acting out on an airplane should be deplaned and thoroughly vetted. I mean it should make a background check look like a walk in the park. We have fools that will allow behavior that can only be explained as checking out security and they are then allowed back on the plane.

Boot their a**es and if it was innocent, remind them that they broke the rules and forfeited their tickets, tough s**t, have a nice flight on another airline. Take their names and photos and ban them from that airline.

Right now, there are absolutely no consequences for their action save a bunch of money via a lawsuit. Make those consequences severe enough to put an end to the BS and once again home.

Rant off for now but dam this PC shit is pissing me off.

Richard

12-05-2009, 08:46

The original Flight 297 e-mail

http://www.ajc.com/business/the-original-flight-297-226738.html?cxntlid=daylf_tpcr

AirTran ‘hero' wasn't on plane, airline says

http://www.ajc.com/business/airtran-hero-wasn-t-226517.html?cxntlid=daylf_tpcr

And so it goes...

Richard

BRAVO-SMASH

12-05-2009, 17:19

rltipton

12-06-2009, 21:10

Appears to be another case of some moron trying to impress somebody with a big stretched out story and it got spread too wide. Reminds me of the dipshit Captain who told someone during last year's campaign that US infantrymen in Iraq and Afghanistan were battlefield recovering weapons and ammo because they were superior to our issued weapons and it got out to the MSM. I seem to recall some retard candidate picked up that story, inflated it some more and ran with it...f***ing idiot...oh wait, he got elected. bwaha

In April 2002 I escorted the remains of a teammate to his mother in NYC. I flew in my dress uniform of course. I got searched before boarding at two stops while dressed in my A's... Go figure.

The second time I was searched was in Newark I think it was. While I was being wanded, standing there arms out, barefooted, 2 robe-clad arabs were watching me very intently while they were boarding the plane. As luck would have it, they had the center and window seats beside me. As I sat I told them both, "Neither of you MFers is getting up during this flight I hope you know."

They didn't budge throughout the flight, didn't sleep, didn't talk, didn't read. I don't know who they were, don't care.

I am not PC, not gonna be PC, don't care about pissing off a stinking muslim. They can all line up and kiss my infidel @$$ one by one.

longrange1947

12-07-2009, 14:44

I stand by my statement. Unless we begin to actually punish idiots that act out on planes then we will continue to have a problem. This case has been proven to be BS, that does NOT negate the other cases of acting out.

rltipton - I am with you, I was searched at Reno with a military ticket and had to remove boots, etc, my plane did not leave on time and I spent some time up in the waiting area. We began to board a new plane and two individuals were called out to be searched/checked. Myself, and one of my traveling compadres, also on gov't orders. I firmly believe they pick on us because they know it will be easy, quick and uncomplicated. I decided to complicate matters by asking why I was searched twice, and if they thought the first search was not thorough enough and if they thought being a gov't worker made me even more dangerous. I stayed polite, just curious.

T-Rock

12-08-2009, 01:37

Interesting interview by a passenger who was onboard:

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/21890485/index.html

Sigaba

12-08-2009, 03:20

...[S]earched at Reno...FWIW, I don't travel extensively and I'm a run of the mill low speed guy. The most extensive search I've been subjected to was flying out of Reno in October, 2002.

I did not mind. The search was much more reassuring that TSA was doing its job than the usual "Olé" I had received earlier that year in other airports.:confused::eek:

I agree that acts of ass-hattery in an airport/aboard a plane should receive special attention. Passengers/aircrew members that cause flights to be delayed should not only get a thorough interview but also a bill for the delay they've caused, a potential fine for nit-wittery, and a special check mark in a database.

This last reward so that they'll receive thorough (but professional) searches on their next ten flights. Oh, you missed your flight? Terribly sorry. Well, if you go back to the ticket counter, you can get on another flight...no, not the gate, the actual ticket counter...yes, that does mean you'll have to be searched again...oh, terribly sorry...that is policy.

My $0.02.

Dozer523

12-08-2009, 05:58

Same old crap.
Just like that dip shit at Bagram who was so angered by Candidate Obama dissing the brave warriors in Afghanistan. But! It wasn't a lie! It was "An e-mail from a Tedd Petruna, in which he told the AJC via a Facebook message Friday was intended only for friends and family" I guess if it's okay to lie to your friends and family then strangers must be the same.
Or is it okay because of the target? Or is it okay because of the general blogosphere audience? Telling ghost storied around the camp-fire is one thing. This is libel. I hope Tedd takes a pocket-book hit. The guy is a jerk, a liar, a xenophobe, a little boy crying wolf, and a crappy novelist.
If it's too good to be true or too weird, it's probably not.

There used to be a secret code writers used to warn their readers that the totally believable story that follows is total bullshit. It was "I never thought I would ever, actually be writing a letter to Penthouse magazine, but. . . "

Warrior-Mentor

12-08-2009, 06:17

Interesting interview by a passenger who was onboard:

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/21890485/index.html

He seems credible.

Richard

12-08-2009, 06:49

RE: next 9-11 - does anybody really think it will be another attempt to use a/c as the weapon? Personally - I doubt it and would bet my farm on some other means of delivering the message from whichever nutty group of the global Jerry Springer show is feeling slighted at the moment.

Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin

longrange1947

12-08-2009, 14:26

Richard I do believe that another attempt will be made as soon as the US becomes PC dominated so that no amount of behavior will actually attract much attention.

It is possible that they are testing the waters now. Everyone say "Never Happen" and that is exactly what they are waiting for. It is an easy delivery system and can be used in many ways that cause maximum damage. Think of the damage if they had the ability to hit the lower section of the towers instead of the upper sections. :munchin

Warrior-Mentor

12-08-2009, 14:31

Four thoughts:

- Swarm tactics
- Car Bombs
- Taxis
- National Capitol Region

Have fun with that war game.

Sweet Dreams....

PSM

12-08-2009, 14:53

Four thoughts:

- Swarm tactics
- Car Bombs
- Taxis
- National Capitol Region

Have fun with that war game.

Sweet Dreams....

My concern is General Aviation a/c.

A lot of havoc can be created by things carried in, dropped from, or rammed by relatively small aircraft.

And security is almost non-existent.

Pat