View Full Version : SEALs' Courtmartial
I just saw this. Just wanted to see what you all thought.
Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist
Tuesday , November 24, 2009
By Rowan Scarborough
Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004. And for their trouble, three of the SEALs, members of the Navy's elite commando unit, are now facing criminal charges, sources told FoxNews.com.
The three have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral's mast — and requested a trial by court-martial.
Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named "Objective Amber," told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it.
Now, instead of being lauded for bringing to justice a high-value target, three of the SEAL commandos, all enlisted, face assault charges and have retained lawyers.
Matthew McCabe, a Special Operations Petty Officer Second Class (SO-2), is facing three charges: dereliction of performance of duty for willfully failing to safeguard a detainee, making a false official statement, and assault.
Petty Officer Jonathan Keefe, SO-2, is facing charges of dereliction of performance of duty and making a false official statement.
Petty Officer Julio Huertas, SO-1, faces those same charges and an additional charge of impediment of an investigation.
The three SEALs will be arraigned separately on Dec. 7. Another three SEALs — two officers and an enlisted sailor — have been identified by investigators as witnesses but have not been charged.
FoxNews.com obtained the official handwritten statement from one of the three witnesses given on Sept. 3, hours after Abed was captured and still being held at the SEAL base at Camp Baharia. He was later taken to a cell in the U.S.-operated Green Zone in Baghdad.
The SEAL told investigators he had showered after the mission, gone to the kitchen and then decided to look in on the detainee.
"I gave the detainee a glance over and then left," the SEAL wrote. "I did not notice anything wrong with the detainee and he appeared in good health."
Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, spokeswoman for the special operations component of U.S. Central Command, confirmed Tuesday to FoxNews.com that three SEALs have been charged in connection with the capture of a detainee. She said their court martial is scheduled for January.
United States Central Command declined to discuss the detainee, but a legal source told FoxNews.com that the detainee was turned over to Iraqi authorities, to whom he made the abuse complaints. He was then returned to American custody. The SEAL leader reported the charge up the chain of command, and an investigation ensued.
The source said intelligence briefings provided to the SEALs stated that "Objective Amber" planned the 2004 Fallujah ambush, and "they had been tracking this guy for some time."
The Fallujah atrocity came to symbolize the brutality of the enemy in Iraq and the degree to which a homegrown insurgency was extending its grip over Iraq.
The four Blackwater agents were transporting supplies for a catering company when they were ambushed and killed by gunfire and grenades. Insurgents burned the bodies and dragged them through the city. They hanged two of the bodies on a bridge over the Euphrates River for the world press to photograph.
Intelligence sources identified Abed as the ringleader, but he had evaded capture until September.
The military is sensitive to charges of detainee abuse highlighted in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. The Navy charged four SEALs with abuse in 2004 in connection with detainee treatment.
Red Flag 1
11-24-2009, 14:05
This is really going too far, IMHO. We are at war.....or are we?
Probably smacked him in the mouth to shut him up so they could read him his rights.
My $.02.
RF 1
kimberly
11-24-2009, 14:05
Unbelievable. Just plain unbelievable.
The Reaper
11-24-2009, 14:11
Unfreakinbelievable.
The AG may actually decide to look into this one.
Put me on his jury.
TR
PedOncoDoc
11-24-2009, 14:14
Considering some of the stories I've heard from friends who have gone down to Gitmo this piece of scum is just as likely to have split his own lip to complain about being mishandled as he was to have been slapped across the mouth during a scuffle.
In the end, regardless of the cause, such a minor injury should be ignored IMO.
Warrior-Mentor
11-24-2009, 14:34
Only the three SEALs and Objective Amber know the truth.
This was not a junior player for the other team.
And they are trained to allege abuse and torture.
See the Manchester Documents, which is an Al Qaeda Training Manual.
Specifically, see Lesson 17, Chapter 3, Paragraph 3.b. which states:
"He should when questioning begins, ask that evidence of his torture be entered into the report proceedings."
READ IT HERE: (Click on View the Full Document)
http://www.investigativeproject.org/document/id/10
This command action, I suspect, is already damaging morale in the unit.
Finding the right balance is tough.
I'd want to give the benefit of the doubt to our guys.
How many terrorists is Al Qaeda prosecuting for abusing our guys, oh, that's right...none.
Only the three SEALs and Objective Amber know the truth.
This was not a junior player for the other team.
And they are trained to allege abuse and torture.
See the Manchester Documents, which is an Al Qaeda Training Manual.
Specifically, see Lesson 17, Chapter 3, Paragraph 3.b. which states:
"He should when questioning begins, ask that evidence of his torture be entered into the report proceedings."
READ IT HERE: (Click on View the Full Document)
http://www.investigativeproject.org/document/id/10
Lets Hope there lawyers have this document and use it to it's fullest in their defense... Just unfricken REAL... Can't quit shaking my head in discuss. Sure hope smarter see throough this and the SEALS are returned to duty with their honor intact.
Stealthed
11-24-2009, 15:13
So instead of prosecuting terrorists, we are prosecuting our own warrior's? I for one am not for abusing terrorists (not that they don't deserve it) like in Abu-Ghraib but all this guy had was a bloody lip? The man was responsible for helping in the brutal killing 4 U.S. Contractors who were Ex-SOF if I'm not mistaken. I'm just so baffled by all of these cases... Almost makes me want to re-class into a non-combat MOS if I'm just going to get thrown in the brig for capturing a terrorist who alleges I gave him a "bloody lip."
Could the officers involved in an "admiral's mast" have made this all go away?
They should be getting medals not a court martial. :mad:
A terrorist got a bloody lip. Boo-hoo. :rolleyes:
So instead of prosecuting terrorists, we are prosecuting our own warrior's?
Welcome to CHANGE. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:mad:
We are at war.....or are we?
Al Qaeda is at war. As for us, I get the impression that we are not at war. Rather, we are busy at something else - although what, exactly, that "something else" is, I do not know.
:(
Warrior-Mentor
11-24-2009, 15:49
Here's the link for the original story:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html
This is a TTP for these savages. Unfortunately, the Navy is "amateur hour" when it comes to handling issues as these. Routinely the issue arises from some idiot about scratches or bruises on a detainee after capture. These idiots can't discern the difference between 'capture' and killing. Sometimes the cat gets hurt during capture; a hell of a lot better than just getting killed. I always used to ask "Would you rather the guys just killed him"??
There is either more to this story; or, a bunch of folks are going to get embarrassed. NO ONE will convict these guys (if it ever gets to trial) unless there is something more.
ghost--scout
11-24-2009, 17:04
Could the officers involved in an "admiral's mast" have made this all go away?
No. When not embarked on a Naval ship the accused can refuse Captain's Mast (non-judicial punishment), at any time from the beginning of the proceedings until right before the punishment is determined and announced, and request a trial by court-martial. When embarked on a U.S. Naval ship the Captain of that ship has the final say and the Captain's Mast (NJP) cannot be refused. I was not there and do not have all the evidence but I would find it disgusting that they would be charged over a bloody lip, especially with the fact that they do falsely proclaim that they were tortured. I doubt that it happened the way the media is being told; if it did happen at all it was probably because he was screwing off and tried to bite someone. At that point it could be considered attempted murder, since the SEALs probably did not know if he was infected with anything that could have been passed through the bite.
Rather, we are busy at something else - although what, exactly, that "something else" is, I do not know.
:(
We're busy playing a game, possibly a game of politics and those sent to do the players bidding are treated as insignificant pawns.
my .02
dirtyshirt
11-24-2009, 17:09
Al Qaeda is at war. As for us, I get the impression that we are not at war. Rather, we are busy at something else - although what, exactly, that "something else" is, I do not know.
:(
Placation.
This is totally ridiculous. This type of shit has to stop. These SEALs,the 3 Soldiers accused in Iraq,and now in Leavenworth,and thats just off the yop of my head; all of this happening under Obies watch. I am sure he has been briefed,why has he allowed this stupidity to carry on?
sympathy for the "other side"?
Utah Bob
11-24-2009, 17:17
Al Qaeda is at war. As for us, I get the impression that we are not at war. Rather, we are busy at something else - although what, exactly, that "something else" is, I do not know.
:(
I believe you have put your finger on it.
armymom1228
11-24-2009, 17:30
There is either more to this story; or, a bunch of folks are going to get embarrassed. NO ONE will convict these guys (if it ever gets to trial) unless there is something more.
I am sure there is the 'rest of the story.....".
However in this PC climate in DC we currently have. I dunno.
Personally I would go for the, "he resisted arrest, grabbed for my gun and shot himself" scenario.
The truly crappy part in all this, is, the families of these men and all they shall go through. GOOD legal defense doesn't come free.
Let me know if there is a defense fund for these guys. I would be proud to contribute.
AM
Could the officers involved in an "admiral's mast" have made this all go away?
The CM convening authority would have reviewed the charges and evidence with the command JAGO and made a decision regarding the disposition of the case of each man - drop the charges, reduce the charges (e.g., placed an official letter of reprimand in their OMPF), reduce the charges and make a strong point to others in the command (e.g., placed an official letter of reprimand in their OMPF and pulled their clearances for making false official statements which would mean expulsion from SWC), or bring them to CM.
Based on the info provided - this sounds to me like a dumb CM on the surface and I would assume there is something else going on here...don't know what it might be but I certainly saw some commands do some dumb things during my time in the service and certainly wouldn't rule 'dumb' out of the equation with this episode, either. :rolleyes:
And so it goes...;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Ret10Echo
11-24-2009, 18:30
We are at war.....or are we?
RF 1
An observation:
POTUS - Not at war...looking for political leverage (photo ops and bowing opportunities) and re-election
Congress - Not at war...reading tea leaves in order to jump on the appropriate bandwagon in time to be re-elected. Working angles of legislation in order to best pad their campaigns. If the military gets something out of it by accident then that is ok. We will claim it was on purpose
American people - 85 -90% are not at war. They are watching Oprah, Dancing with the Stars and Survivor, Guam. Every once in a while the brain-wave monitor blips...but it is mostly flatlined through "Liberal" application of broadband (or should I say broadband applications)
That leaves about 10 -15% of Americans, military servicemembers (not all) veterans and dedicated patriots that are "At war". These few seek to understand their enemy and shout into the wind of ignorance that blows out of Washington and TV studios everywhere......
.02
Al Qaeda is at war. As for us, I get the impression that we are not at war. Rather, we are busy at something else - although what, exactly, that "something else" is, I do not know.:(
Indeed, very well said!
Unfreakinbelievable.
The AG may actually decide to look into this one.
Put me on his jury.
TR
Concur Sir!!!
Holly
Red Flag 1
11-24-2009, 20:52
Al Qaeda is at war. As for us, I get the impression that we are not at war. Rather, we are busy at something else - although what, exactly, that "something else" is, I do not know.
:(
My sense is that we, the entire nation & it's military, are marching to the band led by the ACLU. Political correctness is calling all the shots now; this includes our courts, our laws, what we teach our children, how we refer to Christmas, the pledge to our flag, how voters are registered, how votes are counted (2000 election), how we define, view and prosecute a WAR, how law enforcement is to "behave" ( criminals have the upper hand here), the list seems endless:mad::mad:.
Not only is the tail wagging the dog, there is a cat-o-nine tails attached and smacking us in the face with each wag. But, enough sugar coating.......our elected CEO will tell us what we are really doing in A'stan, and how we are going to do it; from his vast experience and gifted insight.....all in his own good time.
My really pissed off $.000002.
RF 1
Unfreakingbelievable is right.
I fear we are in the advanced stages of the pussification of America.
MARSOC0211
11-25-2009, 03:42
You have to be kidding... These situations have become absolutely asinine. I am sure Ahmed was a complete gentleman and was willing to just go with the SEALs when they found him:mad:
Grant it, common sense is typically not a common virtue within the military (as can be seen by the ridiculous decision to NJP these sailors), but I have faith this will not go very far.... In sha' alah
craigepo
11-25-2009, 10:58
Take a breath.
For the seals to be convicted, the prosecution must prove EVERY element of the charges as follows:
Elements of Dereliction of Duty:
1. the accused had certain duties;
2. the accused knew or reasonably should have known of the duties; AND
3. the accused was willfully derelict in the performance of those duties.
Elements of False Official Statement
1. the accused signed a certain official document or made a certain official statement;
2. the statement or document was false in certain particulars;
3. the accused knew the document or statement was false at the time of making/signing; AND
4. the false document or statement was made with the intention to deceive.
The jury will be made up of officers/nco's who are sworn to do their duty. Trust me, our founding fathers were correct in mandating our right to trial by jury--it works.(I watch it happen all the time). Justice will prevail
Warrior-Mentor
11-25-2009, 12:43
Take a breath.
For the seals to be convicted, the prosecution must prove EVERY element of the charges as follows:
Elements of Dereliction of Duty:
1. the accused had certain duties;
2. the accused knew or reasonably should have known of the duties; AND
3. the accused was willfully derelict in the performance of those duties.
Elements of False Official Statement
1. the accused signed a certain official document or made a certain official statement;
2. the statement or document was false in certain particulars;
3. the accused knew the document or statement was false at the time of making/signing; AND
4. the false document or statement was made with the intention to deceive.
The jury will be made up of officers/nco's who are sworn to do their duty. Trust me, our founding fathers were correct in mandating our right to trial by jury--it works.(I watch it happen all the time). Justice will prevail
Horse shit! "Take a breath." The fact that they are on charges makes me SICK!
I learned more this morning watching FOX and I'm mad as hell.
There were 3 other SEALs who were witnesses there as well who aren't being charged. All 3 said this didn't happen.
So let's take score:
6 Americam Barrel Chest Freedom Fighters said it didn't happen.
1 Terrorist shit-head who led the killing of 4 Americans and burned them on a bridge.
6 Americans' testimony doesn't equal that of one terrorist shit head?
This crap about they won't be convicted entirely misses the point.
The mere fact they were ever charged feed the fuel of the PR machine against us,
AND shows weakness in a part of the world that respects only strength,
AND demoralizes one of best fighting units going after the worst shit-heads.
You've just taken at least 6 Navy SEALs out of the fight for the duration of the trial ...
likely more counting various levels of leadership distracted by this baloney.
All because he alleges a "fat-lip"?
And he's trained to lie about torture in the first place!
Are we complete idiots???
There is one maybe more idiots out there somewhere. And that would be the brought the charges forward and those who agreed to push forward. ALL CRAP !!!! And as stated above this does nothing but strengthen the enemy.
craigepo
11-25-2009, 13:19
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Horse shit! "Take a breath." The fact that they are on charges makes me SICK!
"Horse shit"????
I agree, that if what we heard in the press is the only reason(s) for the charge, the case is a waste of time and possibly an abuse of process/malicious prosecution. However, you are making an assumption. You are assuming that you know all the facts behind the allegations. Do you? Were you there? Do you know anybody who was there(which would still be inadmissible hearsay)? Do you know anybody who knows anybody that was there(double hearsay)? Also, what percent of what the press puts out do you believe? 10%? 50%? 100%?Moreover, do you automatically presume Navy officers are acting in bad faith in this matter? Officers who have sworn an oath to defend the Constitution?
Clearly, the SEALS are pretty sure about his/their innocence, as they turned down captain's mast(the navy equivalent of an article 15), and asked for a court-martial. (remember in Band of Brothers, Captain Sobol offered non-judicial punishment to Lieutenant Winters, Winters demanded a court-martial, case went away). While this speaks volumes about what is going on, it does not decide what facts actually occurred.
Court cases are not decided in the newspapers, and are not decided by bloggers(thank God). They are decided by juries, composed of jurors who swear to impartially apply the law to the facts as they find them.
Our American justice system is the best, not just in the world, but that the world has ever seen. This system is engrained in the Constitution, which all of us, at one time or another, swore to defend. If the SEALs were unjustly charged, the truth will be found and known, and vice versa.
Warrior-Mentor
11-25-2009, 13:26
We'll see.
The Reaper
11-25-2009, 14:15
Not a lawyer, but I think that whether this happened or not, it should have been dealt with at a lower level. Don't know all of the facts, but maybe a Commander's Inquiry with a Letter of Admonishment, locally filed and destroyed after 90 days clean.
Furthermore, in a "he said, she said" case like this, I think that we are allowing a frivolous complaint to go a lot further than it should have.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
Surgicalcric
11-25-2009, 14:27
...Furthermore, in a "he said, she said" case like this, I think that we are allowing a frivolous complaint to go a lot further than it should have...
Concur 110% Sir.
Furthermore this will negatively affect the morale of our guys on the ground regardless of the outcome of the case.
We are fighting a war against people hell-bent on destroying our way of life, not stopping cars in town for speeding. The rules are different, or at least they should be....
Crip
Agree with TR.
Whatever happened to lie detector tests? Within hours of the SEALs getting back it had already escalated to formal charges and talk of court martials? Over a busted lip?
When I first started reading this thread I thought it was a joke - that's how ludicrous this situation seems.
Still thinking there must be something deeper going on here... other than the stench of stupidity.
Otherwise the lesson learned is kill the target - then there is no one to talk when you get back.
I am sure he has been briefed,why has he allowed this stupidity to carry on?
Because Obama can't lead. Period. He's never lead anyone in anything. Organize? Yes. Razzle-dazzle with acres of BS,? Yes. But lead!!? He couldn't lead a man out of a burning pair of pants!
TR's right. The matter should never have been discussed above the CO's level, and it should have died there. "More to it?" Come on, man...
dirtyshirt
11-25-2009, 17:39
IIRC from days gone by ; seems that a method that worked well was to shoot said target in the leg or non-vital area, preferrably with small caliber cartridge,patch him up,and then bingo-"higher" got their prisoner,intell,whatever.
This guy was lucky enough to be captured with no leaking holes in his body. Zero.
The fact that said enemy had killed Blackwater employees, one of which was former Navy SEAL Scott Helvetson,and the SEALS in question showed the professionalism, and restraint ,to still bring this P.O.S. in,no worse for wear and tear,even IF he somehow tripped and cut his lip,or had his lip cut in a minimal scuffle, is something evidentally lost on those who wanted to even let this (as others have already said) get as far as it has! That the Media got their meathooks into this story is unforgiveable. SOF have to be able to operate with some higher level of Culpability than regular troops and M.P.s. The fact that they got this guy ALIVE,should have been celebrated for the possible information he can provide,in addition to being alive to be brought to justice for his part in the Murders!
But then I forgot,we cant extract information,or anything that may be seen as uncomfortable to the poor, unfortunate Afghan goat-herder.
I wonder how comfortable those 4 Blackwater employee's,including SEAL Helvetson were.
I am all for a media blackout,or at least censorship of the media in these current wars. The MSM / left wing / Democratic news has a way of making a mountain out of a molehill,and the Enemy KNOWS this,and plays to "our" weakness; the American news media. Again, this should have never got this far,and even more so,it should not have hit the news. I am sure the Enemy see's this as a victory for them.
I apologize for what turned out to be a rant, but this type of thing really, just makes me sick:mad:
greenberetTFS
11-25-2009, 21:10
This whole situation is "Bull Shit",that's right, just plain old BS........:rolleyes: WTF is going on in the service right now? I don't believe this......... :confused: I'm glad I'm not serving now and having to put up with crap like this...........:mad:
Big Teddy :munchin
ZonieDiver
11-25-2009, 21:32
Having once been a "defendant" in the Military Justice system, I have a bit of faith in the resolution of this case. Should it have occurred? No. I think that it did is a "sign of our times" - but, I still have faith that the end result will be good.
While my experience as an "operator" may not equal many of those on this site, I know that what had happened before would NEVER have influenced ANY decision I ever made "on the ground"! I'd have done what was "right" - come "hell or high water"... I trust that those who follow will always do the same.
Warrior-Mentor
11-25-2009, 22:43
Join the Facebook Group:
Support The Navy Seals who Captured Ahmed Hashim Abed
LINK:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509309647&ref=pymk#/group.php?gid=201355981560
dr. mabuse
11-25-2009, 23:00
Wow. Civilian courts must be different in Missoura.:rolleyes:
I have personally seen cases that should have been no-billed go to trial and the trial jury missed it and vice-versa.
I guess we're too backward here in Texas to get it right.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Barefoot Sanders and a few other "minor league judges" that are family friends of ours would disagree with the "justice will prevail" sentiment. Sometimes it doesn't prevail.
Hey , what the hell do they know.
And as we all know, politics has no sway on what happens in the military, no matter how asinine it may be.
ZonieDiver
11-25-2009, 23:03
Well, they say that "military justice is to justice, as military music is to music." Personally, I have always like military music. YMMV
kimberly
11-26-2009, 09:31
An observation:
POTUS - Not at war...looking for political leverage (photo ops and bowing opportunities) and re-election
Congress - Not at war...reading tea leaves in order to jump on the appropriate bandwagon in time to be re-elected. Working angles of legislation in order to best pad their campaigns. If the military gets something out of it by accident then that is ok. We will claim it was on purpose
American people - 85 -90% are not at war. They are watching Oprah, Dancing with the Stars and Survivor, Guam. Every once in a while the brain-wave monitor blips...but it is mostly flatlined through "Liberal" application of broadband (or should I say broadband applications)
That leaves about 10 -15% of Americans, military servicemembers (not all) veterans and dedicated patriots that are "At war". These few seek to understand their enemy and shout into the wind of ignorance that blows out of Washington and TV studios everywhere......
.02
With all due respect, we may not be on the front lines, but there are plenty of us who have guys in dangerous places and we do not sit and watch TV not thinking about anything else.
My sense is that we, the entire nation & it's military, are marching to the band led by the ACLU. Political correctness is calling all the shots now; this includes our courts, our laws, what we teach our children, how we refer to Christmas, the pledge to our flag, how voters are registered, how votes are counted (2000 election), how we define, view and prosecute a WAR, how law enforcement is to "behave" ( criminals have the upper hand here), the list seems endless:mad::mad:.
Not only is the tail wagging the dog, there is a cat-o-nine tails attached and smacking us in the face with each wag. But, enough sugar coating.......our elected CEO will tell us what we are really doing in A'stan, and how we are going to do it; from his vast experience and gifted insight.....all in his own good time.
My really pissed off $.000002.
RF 1
Ditto. It's sickening that the US feels a need to avoid stepping on toes that in reality should blown off the foot.
Horse shit! "Take a breath." The fact that they are on charges makes me SICK!
....
All because he alleges a "fat-lip"?
And he's trained to lie about torture in the first place!
Are we complete idiots???
PC is going to do us all in.
...
Otherwise the lesson learned is kill the target - then there is no one to talk when you get back.
That's a good idea. Or at least paralyze him from the chest down.
Surgicalcric
11-26-2009, 10:47
With all due respect, we may not be on the front lines, but there are plenty of us who have guys in dangerous places and we do not sit and watch TV not thinking about anything else...
Kimberly:
Did you not realize he covered the percentage of the population to which you belong...
That leaves about 10 -15% of Americans, military service members, (not all) veterans, and dedicated patriots that are "At war". These few seek to understand their enemy and shout into the wind of ignorance that blows out of Washington and TV studios everywhere.
PedOncoDoc
11-26-2009, 10:55
That's a good idea. Or at least paralyze him from the chest down.
If you paralyze him from neck down and are a bit slow to call for medical assistance it's a self-resolving problem. ;)
Horse shit! "Take a breath." The fact that they are on charges makes me SICK!
I learned more this morning watching FOX and I'm mad as hell.
There were 3 other SEALs who were witnesses there as well who aren't being charged. All 3 said this didn't happen.
So let's take score:
6 Americam Barrel Chest Freedom Fighters said it didn't happen.
1 Terrorist shit-head who led the killing of 4 Americans and burned them on a bridge.
6 Americans' testimony doesn't equal that of one terrorist shit head?
This crap about they won't be convicted entirely misses the point.
The mere fact they were ever charged feed the fuel of the PR machine against us,
AND shows weakness in a part of the world that respects only strength,
AND demoralizes one of best fighting units going after the worst shit-heads.
You've just taken at least 6 Navy SEALs out of the fight for the duration of the trial ...
likely more counting various levels of leadership distracted by this baloney.
All because he alleges a "fat-lip"?
And he's trained to lie about torture in the first place!
Are we complete idiots???
A Great synopsis Sir!!! These "charges" are HORSE SHIT!!!! Am going to follow this one close, and raise all mother-fu**in HELL if these charges stand!!! :mad:
Wake Up America!!!
Holly
kimberly
11-26-2009, 20:45
Kimberly:
Did you not realize he covered the percentage of the population to which you belong...
Misunderstood.
My apologies to Ret10echo
armymom1228
11-26-2009, 21:39
With all due respect, we may not be on the front lines, but there are plenty of us who have guys in dangerous places and we do not sit and watch TV not thinking about anything else.
Clearly you have never been on the waiting end of a deployment.
My son has deployed 7 times in the past 6 yrs. If I were to spend all my time worrying about his safety. I would be in a padded cell in a wraparound suit. Nor would he want me to worry and fixate on his safety. He would have a hissy fit and fall in it if I did. He is, after all, just doing his job as he puts it so succintly.
I have spent most of my adult life involved with or married to much deployed Military. To sit and watch tv, something especially mindless, is a respite from the wait and worry. Some mil-wives do spend all thier time in worry. Others have learned there is nothing we can do about the whole deal, and to get on with life and he will be home when he gets home. We just make sure when he gets home it is his lee shore and safe anchorage, not a port in a storm. YMMV :)
I should give credit to my mom, an officers wife, who taught me my job, as a Mil-wife, by example.
AM
kimberly
11-26-2009, 21:41
AM, The point was missed completely.
The mere fact they were ever charged feed the fuel of the PR machine against us,
AND shows weakness in a part of the world that respects only strength,
AND demoralizes one of best fighting units going after the worst shit-heads.
:lifter
Stay safe.
A bit better view of the situation - the accusations were made by a USN guard and post confinement actions of the three are the issue.
Richard
SEALs Accused Of Assaulting Alleged Terrorist
Gidget Fuentes and Andrew Scutro, USMC Times, 25 Nov 2009
Three Navy SEALs are facing court-martial in connection with the alleged assault and mishandling of a detainee they captured in Iraq in early September, military officials said.
The military provided few details of the circumstances, but a source with knowledge of the investigation confirmed for Navy Times that the detainee was Ahmed Hashim Abed, the alleged planner of the March 2004 ambush, killing and mutilation of four Blackwater contractors in Fallujah.
“That’s why [the SEALs] went after him,” the source said, who asked not to be named. He noted that the takedown was “kinetic” but there was no gunfire. “[Abed] had a gun. The intel was perfect. No shots were fired.”
The three SEALs — Special Warfare Operators 2nd Class Matthew McCabe and Jonathan Keefe, and SO1 Julio Huertas — will be arraigned Dec. 7 in a military court in Norfolk, Va., said Army Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, a spokeswoman with U.S. Special Operations Command Central. All are assigned to SEAL Team 10, based in Little Creek, Va., Navy records show.
McCabe is charged with one count each of assault of the detainee, dereliction of duty and making a false official statement, Silkman said.
Keefe is charged with one count each of dereliction of duty and false official statement; Huertas is accused of dereliction of duty, making a false official statement and impeding an investigation, she said.
Army Maj. Gen. Charles Cleveland, SOCCent commander, preferred the charges against the SEALs and will serve as the convening authority as the cases proceed to court-martial, tentatively scheduled for mid-January, Silkman said.
The alleged incident happened in Iraq on or about Sept. 1, Silkman said. None of the SEALs is confined, she added.
The source said the charges stem not from the capture itself — which have a high potential for violence — but from later on, when Abed was under detention.
“If they really wanted to [beat] him that was the time do it,” during the capture, the source said. “That’s why this is so ridiculous.”
The charges were first reported by Fox News, which posted a story on its Web site Tuesday. The source confirmed that Abed was known by the military code “Objective Amber,” but could not say if the capture went down in the city of Fallujah or in the outlying area.
The source said the allegations began when a master-at-arms sailor assigned to guard Abed told a SEAL platoon commander that one of the operators had punched Abed in the stomach.
“This was reported by the SEAL platoon commander to the chain of command,” he said.
The SEALs have been assigned military attorneys to defend them in the cases, which will be tried separately as special courts-martial.
One defense attorney said the SEALs refused to accept nonjudicial punishment, which are administrative actions that some in the military may consider as an admission of guilt.
Neal Puckett, a defense attorney who is representing McCabe, said the SEALs are being essentially charged for allegedly giving the detainee “a punch in the gut.”
They are expected to plead not guilty when they appear at their December arraignment, he said. “They are all together, and they all maintain that they are innocent of these charges,” said Puckett, a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel and judge advocate.
The SEALs were on the tail-end of their deployment to Iraq when the alleged incident happened, he said.
McCabe’s special court-martial is slated to begin Jan. 19, he said.
Huertas, 28, is from Blue Island, Ill., and enlisted in 1999. He has served in special warfare units since 2002. He has an Iraq Campaign Medal and was advanced to E-6 in June 2006, Navy records show.
Keefe, 25, is from Yorktown, Va., and enlisted in 2006. He began SEAL training the same year, Navy records show. He was last advanced in June 2008.
McCabe, 24 is originally from Perrysburg, Ohio, and enlisted in 2003. He served on the Amphibious Assault Ship Belleau Wood before training in special warfare. He was advanced in September 2007, Navy records show.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/11/navy_seals_charged_fallujah_112509w/
PedOncoDoc
11-27-2009, 05:48
If there was only an alleged gut-punch - why all the talk about a fat lip? I don't care how hard you hit someone in the belly - it shouldn't fatten your lip unless you hit him hard enough to throw him face-first into something. We must not have all of the story...:confused:
If there was only an alleged gut-punch - why all the talk about a fat lip? I don't care how hard you hit someone in the belly - it shouldn't fatten your lip unless you hit him hard enough to throw him face-first into something. We must not have all of the story...:confused:
Have you ever heard of a detainee slamming him self into the wall or floor? Yes it happens a lot. Go an talk to Prison Guards here in the US. They do it to screw with the MAN. Takes up time and money and removes the guard/operators from their job. Old tactic but looks like now the PC Police are going to aid the terrorist......
PedOncoDoc
11-27-2009, 07:52
Have you ever heard of a detainee slamming him self into the wall or floor? Yes it happens a lot. Go an talk to Prison Guards here in the US. They do it to screw with the MAN. Takes up time and money and removes the guard/operators from their job. Old tactic but looks like now the PC Police are going to aid the terrorist......
I think I made a statement to that effect earlier in the thread - I agree wholeheartedly. I was just remarking on how the alleged mechanism of injury (gut punch) does not explain the physical evidence (bloody lip.)
LongWire
11-27-2009, 08:19
I think I made a statement to that effect earlier in the thread - I agree wholeheartedly. I was just remarking on how the alleged mechanism of injury (gut punch) does not explain the physical evidence (bloody lip.)
Fat Lip, Flat Schmip.......Depending on how they brought this guy back could be that issue. At least 25-50% of these boogers pass out when they realize that they are going to fly on the whirlybird!!!! With another big percentage shitting themselves. He's lucky that all he has is a puffy lip and tummy ache. He could be breathing out of his forehead.
I was just remarking on how the alleged mechanism of injury (gut punch) does not explain the physical evidence (bloody lip.)
Assumptions based upon faulty reporting - 'gut punch' vs 'bloody lip' - the CM will decide the matter, not the MSM.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Have you ever heard of a detainee slamming him self into the wall or floor? Yes it happens a lot. Go an talk to Prison Guards here in the US. They do it to screw with the MAN. Takes up time and money and removes the guard/operators from their job. Old tactic but looks like now the PC Police are going to aid the terrorist......
We occasionally get prisoners where I work who come in through the ER after breaking pencils off in their urethras just so they can have a week or so of vacation in the hospital. I can only imagine what a “True Believer” would do to screw with the “Infidels”…
I would like to have seen Ahmed Abed breathing through a #8 shiley as a result of the facial beating he should have received for the things he did to Scott Helvenston, Jerry Zovko, Wesley Batalona and Michael Teague…
Those three SEAL’s showed a tremendous amount of restraint IMO…
Who can we write or call on their behalf ?
Surgicalcric
11-27-2009, 10:08
...the CM will decide the matter, not the MSM...
Indeed it will.
My problem now is WTF was the Master-At-Arms thinking. Sounds like he needs to be taken out and have his ass handed to him.
Punched in the stomach...give me a f-n break... :rolleyes:
The Reaper
11-27-2009, 10:13
Charlie Cleveland is a good man and I believe he will do the right thing.
TR
Basenshukai
11-27-2009, 10:26
A similar thing happened to us during an OEF rotation when a detainee alleged essentially the same thing. I was assigned to investigate the issue. When I went to the holding facility, he looked fine. Apparently, he alleged the mistreatment to a young, sympathetic and inexperienced Army interrogator who took it as gospel. After a long, long and exhaustive investigation, the guys were cleared with ample evidence to clear them. But, we kept seeing these allegations from nearly every detainee. All the guys were cleared in these cases. And, honestly, the guys went above and beyond to keep the detainees alive and well. In one extraordinary case, one of our men was killed by a roadside IED (his name is in the TAPS section in the forum, but I'm not going to mention his name on here). The IED exploded underneath the driver and killed him instantly; he didn't even know it happened. Anyway, the TC was ejected by the explotion and broke a few ribs, but otherwise, he was fine. Amazingly, the gunner and a fourth operator sitting behind the gunner were both ejected. The gunner only suffered a moderate foot injury. The fourth guy was ejected in such a way as to actually land on his feet behind the vehicle. This guy turned to the side and actually saw the man that detonated the IED drop the initiating mechanism and begin to run. This was also seen by two of the guys in the next vehicle. So, they all ran after him. The "fourth guy" actually caught up to him and brought him down to his knees. When the other guys caught up, the man that detonated the IED and killed one of our own was now in flex-cuffs facing down on the ground ... ALIVE! He was never mistreated, or abused and he was put through the system down there and incarcerated (I don't know for how long; we were gone by then).
My point is that the guys (SF, SEALs, et. al) are professionals; well-trained and highly discipliined. I trust them first and foremost before any "outsider" (host nation, enemy combatant, whatever).
Basenshukai
11-27-2009, 10:29
Charlie Cleveland is a good man and I believe he will do the right thing.
TR
I agree with you, sir. MG Cleveland has always been a fair man. By the way, I'm back up in Fayetteville for the weekend. I think I owe you a beer or something. PM, sir.
kimberly
11-28-2009, 08:50
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34180743/ns/world_news-washington_post/
Seems there is a rash of this going around...
Excerpts:
KABUL, Afghanistan - Two Afghan teenagers held in U.S. detention north of Kabul this year said they were beaten by American guards, photographed naked, deprived of sleep and held in solitary confinement in concrete cells for at least two weeks while undergoing daily interrogation about their alleged links to the Taliban.
The accounts could not be independently substantiated. But in successive, on-the-record interviews, the teenagers presented a detailed, consistent portrait suggesting that the abusive treatment of suspected insurgents has in some cases continued under the Obama administration, despite steps that President Obama has said would put an end to the harsh interrogation practices authorized by the Bush administration after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The holding center described by the teenagers appeared to have been a facility run by U.S. Special Operations forces that is separate from the Bagram Theater Internment Facility, the main American-run prison, which holds about 700 detainees. The teenagers' descriptions of a holding area on a different part of the Bagram base are consistent with the accounts of two other former detainees, who say they endured similar mistreatment, but not beatings, while being held last year at what Afghans call Bagram's "black" prison.
The two teenagers were interviewed Wednesday at the Afghan-run Juvenile Rehabilitation Center in Kabul, where they were transferred after their detention at Bagram and a brief stay in an Afghan adult prison known as Pul-i-Charkhi. They sat together on a bench outside the building and told their stories in succession, as did a third teenager, Sayid Sardar Ahmad, 17, who also spent time at Bagram.
"That was the hardest time I have ever had in my life," Rashid said of his interrogation. "It was better to just kill me. But they would not kill me."
When summoned for daily interrogations, Rashid said, he was made to wear a hood, handcuffs and ear coverings and was marched into the meeting room. He said he was punched by his interrogators while being prodded to admit ties to the Taliban; he denied such ties. During some sessions, he said, his interrogator forced him to look at pornographic movies and magazines while also showing him a photograph of his mother.
Warrior-Mentor
11-28-2009, 09:19
Charlie Cleveland is a good man and I believe he will do the right thing.
TR
Agree.
Snaquebite
11-28-2009, 11:01
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34180743/ns/world_news-washington_post/
Seems there is a rash of this going around...
Excerpts:
Step by step acusations straight from the Al Qaeda training manual.
SkiBumCFO
11-28-2009, 15:48
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Charlie Cleveland is a good man and I believe he will do the right thing.
TR
After much discussion TR hit the nail on the head. I would follow MG Cleveland anywhere so at least they are in safe hands.
NousDefionsDoc
11-28-2009, 17:33
Looks like to me the good General is sending a message to the Navy...something along the lines of "Why am I seeing this on my desk?"
There's a lot more to this. They refused NJP and are making a stand.
The master at arms sounds typical of conventional support troops.
SkiBumCFO
11-28-2009, 19:17
Looks like to me the good General is sending a message to the Navy...something along the lines of "Why am I seeing this on my desk?"
NDD - couldn't agree with you more. As a quasi civilian general i would be pissed if this made it up to my desk. I hate it when stupid crap that should have been handled below ends up on my desk - especially if it is a powder day :)
...NO ONE will convict these guys (if it ever gets to trial) unless there is something more.
Unfortunately, these fine sailors are locked up when they could be out working to capture more bad guys.
I see a book deal brewing...
Unfortunately, these fine sailors are locked up...
None of the SEALs are confined according to the CENTCOM PAO.
Richard
Warrior-Mentor
12-02-2009, 14:55
At least one Member of Congress is interested in this ...
OK - call me cynical - but after reading that letter, it appears to me as if the 'good' Senator is grandstanding for the benefit of his 'valued constituents' back home in Nevada - must be an election year for him.
Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin
Warrior-Mentor
12-02-2009, 16:00
OK - call me cynical - but after reading that letter, it appears to me as if the 'good' Senator is grandstanding for the benefit of his 'valued constituents' back home in Nevada - must be an election year for him.
Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin
Nope. He's not up until 2012. He's got a good staff.
Nope. He's not up until 2012. He's got a good staff.
I'm sure the SecDef and the USSOCOM Chain of Command appreciate that. ;)
Richard
Warrior-Mentor
12-07-2009, 12:32
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MisF5xY5534
armymom1228
12-07-2009, 13:24
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MisF5xY5534
signed..
You are signer #13049
Speedgod
12-07-2009, 13:38
Signed #13100
Masochist
12-07-2009, 14:01
#13178
Congratulations. You have successfully signed the petition:
Cease and Desist The Prosecution of 3 Navy Seals.
You are signer #13172
Red Flag 1
12-07-2009, 14:42
Done.
# 13337
"Drop all charges"!
Rf 1
PedOncoDoc
12-07-2009, 15:33
Done.
Signer #13565.
Basenshukai
12-07-2009, 15:52
Signed: #13634
The lads apparently disobeyed a directive, signed a false official statement, and impeded an official investigation, then challenged the command to 'put up or shut up' by turning down an Art-15 and are now facing the CMs they requested - a brief glimmer of hope shattered yet again by the cruel strains of harsh reality.
I'll patiently await the outcome of the CMs they requested.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Warrior-Mentor
12-07-2009, 16:21
The lads apparently disobeyed a directive, signed a false official statement, and impeded an official investigation, then challenged the command to 'put up or shut up' by turning down an Art-15[/COLOR].
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Source?
Source?
I'll post it again:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/11/navy_seals_charged_fallujah_112509w/
Richard
The lads apparently disobeyed a directive, signed a false official statement, and impeded an official investigation, then challenged the command to 'put up or shut up' by turning down an Art-15 and are now facing the CMs they requested - a brief glimmer of hope shattered yet again by the cruel strains of harsh reality.
I'll patiently await the outcome of the CMs they requested.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Richard SIr,
Am NOT military, so my .02 is stirctly from a civilian stanpoint...but as many of us did, I remember hearing of the dragging of the bodies through the streets, the burning of the bodies, while they swayed in the wind, as these MF'in losers danced with glee...
Cannot imagine what the SEAL's who captured this idiot were going through at the time, but they are better folks than most, for their restraint, and civility to leave him alive. My vote is they should have just shot the bastard...but they showed honor for the rules in not doing so, IMVHO!
They should be given a parade, instead of this bullshit!!!:mad:
Holly
Surgicalcric
12-07-2009, 18:56
The lads apparently disobeyed a directive, signed a false official statement, and impeded an official investigation, then challenged the command to 'put up or shut up' by turning down an Art-15 and are now facing the CMs they requested...
I find it more sad that the SEALs may have felt the need to commit the previously noted offenses, because of command climate...
Crip
armymom1228
12-07-2009, 19:15
:)
The lads apparently disobeyed a directive, signed a false official statement, and impeded an official investigation, then challenged the command to 'put up or shut up' by turning down an Art-15 and are now facing the CMs they requested - a brief glimmer of hope shattered yet again by the cruel strains of harsh reality.
I'll patiently await the outcome of the CMs they requested. Richard
I am pretty sure that if Richard and I were on the same team during our stints in the service, we would have had a fist fight. He is one contrary SOB.
Playing devils advocate all the time is a little irritating.
Blue
I am pretty sure that if Richard and I were on the same team during our stints in the service, we would have had a fist fight.
Maybe - however, I'll bet that if you actually knew me - which is difficult to do on the Internet - we'd either have gotten along just fine or one of us would have requested to go to another team. ;)
FWIW - my opinion on this matter is based on what these guy's have been charged with - not what's been misreported or rumored - and the CM they have requested will - after hearing all the evidence - decide their fate (which may or may not entail punishment) - not the blogosphere. IMO, that's the way it should be.
However - YMMV.
Richard
I forgot to put my comments in pink.:p
Blue
The Reaper
12-07-2009, 21:16
Anyone here who has not done at least a couple of the things Richard has mentioned that the SEALs are accused of should toss the first big rock.
I will wait for the rest of the facts, but will also give them the benefit of the doubt till they are tried and convicted.
TR
Dozer523
12-07-2009, 21:29
Special Warfare Operators 2nd Class and Special Warfare Operators 1st Class. (?)
To what Army rank does this equate?
Special Warfare Operators 2nd Class and Special Warfare Operators 1st Class. (?) To what Army rank does this equate?
E-4 (3rd Class), E-5 (2nd Class) and E-6 (1st Class).
Richard
US Navy (SEAL Team) 7-8 members
TM Ldr. O-1, LT
Sr. NCO E6
Medic E5
Wpns E5
Wpns E4
Commo E5
Maybe a second Med/Commo
US Army (SF, ODA) 12 members - Typical
TM Ldr. O-3 CPT, CW3
TM XO O2 1LT, CW2
TM SGT E8, NLT (2) Prior SF MOS’s
INT SGT E7, NLT (1) Prior SF MOS
SR WPN E7, 10 yrs in service, 3yrs on ODA
SR ENG E7, 10 yrs in service, 3yrs on ODA
SR MED E7, 10 yrs in service, 3 yrs on ODA
SR COMM E7, 10 yrs in service, 3 yrs on ODA
JR WPN E6, 1-3 yrs on ODA
JR ENG E6, 1-3 yrs on ODA
JR MED E6, 1-3 yrs on ODA
JR COMM E6, 1-3 yrs on ODA
Times may have changed things a bit, but I'm guessing not much. Work has reduced some SEAL teams and ODA's to a minimum strength level.
I have always admired the maturity and experience of many an ODA.
Peregrino
12-07-2009, 22:41
Sorry guys, I'm with Richard on this one (not always a comfortable place to be though!). Personally, I believe it's a trivial issue that should never have reached this point; however, the die have been cast, it's now time to let the game play out.
If they are innocent, I wish them luck. If not, CMs usually have a way of seeing justice done. Personally, I was taught early in my career that a CM isn't always a bad thing. If you think you're right, it's your one chance to plead your case to a jury of your peers. Of course the same mentor also taught me that it was still better to avoid it if at all possible.
IMHO the UCMJ and a CM provides more respect and protection for the innocent than anything comperable in the civilian system. If the SEALS want a CM then they should get one.
Charlie Cleveland is a good man and I believe he will do the right thing.
TR
Concur TR. He was my Bn and Group Commander. I have alot of respect for him and I also feel he will do the right thing. There has to be some kind of other hidden agenda, for this, from within the unit?
I doubt this was something drummed by BH0 or anyone else within his administration.....
Stealthed
12-08-2009, 14:06
Innocent until proven guilty.
greenberetTFS
12-08-2009, 14:47
Maybe - however, I'll bet that if you actually knew me - which is difficult to do on the Internet - we'd either have gotten along just fine or one of us would have requested to go to another team. ;)
FWIW - my opinion on this matter is based on what these guy's have been charged with - not what's been misreported or rumored - and the CM they have requested will - after hearing all the evidence - decide their fate (which may or may not entail punishment) - not the blogosphere. IMO, that's the way it should be.
However - YMMV.
Richard
I'm with Richard on this one,most of the time but not always,but I think he's right on this issue.........;)
Big Teddy :munchin
ODA CDR (RET)
12-08-2009, 18:04
Just received from an old TM SGT. This story is unbelievable. I'm sick of our PC.
Subject: Donations to accused SEALs legal defense fund.
Maritime Tactical Security will donate money for the Heroes' legal defense and has established a Bank Account for donations to accused SEALs legal defense fund.01 December 2009. Three members of the elite Navy SEAL Commando were initially hailed as heroes for capturing one of Iraq's most wanted alleged terrorists. These heroes are now being court martialed for allegedly giving a swollen lip to this terrorist who is believed to have masterminded the dismembering, burning, and hanging of four Americans in Falluja in 2004.These SEALs are defending their honor while standing up against the same political correctness that is tearing apart our country. These heroes deserve our support. We want to minimize the financial burden this case is creating for them and their families. Please help us in showing your support with a donation.If you would like to help Navy Seals who put their lives on the line for our County, please send donations to the Non-Profit account established by Maritime Tactical Security with Chase Manhattan Bank. Any funds remaining at the conclusion of the case will be donated to SEALs who have been injured and/or permanently disabled in Iraq and Afghanistan. You can also deposit your donation directly into the Navy SEALs Fund account by visiting one of the Chase Branches closest to you. Just ask for the "Navy SEALs Fund" account. Find Chase Branch near you...
http://www.maritimetacticalsecurity.com/MtsNews.aspx
BoyScout
12-08-2009, 18:56
Singed.
HowardCohodas
12-10-2009, 04:09
Anyone else feel that this is the Administration's way of disciplining the Seals for taking out the Somali pirates without explicit orders to shoot?
Anyone else feel that this is the Administration's way of disciplining the SEALs for taking out the Somali pirates without explicit orders to shoot?I do not have that feeling.
Especially after reading posts #49 and #57, above.
Anyone else feel that this is the Administration's way of disciplining the Seals for taking out the Somali pirates without explicit orders to shoot?
They had the correct ROE.
The wronger a conspiracy is, the better it is.
- Tom Sawyer's Conspiracy, Mark Twain
I concur with Sigaba and Mark Twain.
Richard
Dozer523
12-10-2009, 07:06
Anyone else feel that this is the Administration's way of disciplining the Seals for taking out the Somali pirates without explicit orders to shoot? Not me.
US Navy (SEAL Team) 7-8 members
TM Ldr. O-1, LT
Sr. NCO E6
Medic E5
Wpns E5
Wpns E4
Commo E5
Maybe a second Med/Commo
US Army (SF, ODA) 12 members - Typical
TM Ldr. O-3 CPT, CW3
TM XO O2 1LT, CW2
TM SGT E8, NLT (2) Prior SF MOS’s
INT SGT E7, NLT (1) Prior SF MOS
SR WPN E7, 10 yrs in service, 3yrs on ODA
SR ENG E7, 10 yrs in service, 3yrs on ODA
SR MED E7, 10 yrs in service, 3 yrs on ODA
SR COMM E7, 10 yrs in service, 3 yrs on ODA
JR WPN E6, 1-3 yrs on ODA
JR ENG E6, 1-3 yrs on ODA
JR MED E6, 1-3 yrs on ODA
JR COMM E6, 1-3 yrs on ODA
Times may have changed thing a bit, but I'm guessing not much. Work has reduced some SEAL teams and ODA's to a minimum strength level.
I have always admired the maturity and experience of many an ODA.
You are incorrect on SEAL Command structure.
A SEAL Team has 6 Platoons and is commanded by an 0-5
A SEAL Platoon is 2 squads of 8, totalling 16 personnel. Everyone is cross trained in each other’s specialties
OIC = O-3
AOIC =0-2
CPO (SNCO) = E-7
LPO (NCO =E-6
Ord rep x2 =E-5
Radioman = E-5
Corpsman =E-5
Dive rep x2 = E-5
Airops rep x2 = E-5
1stLT rep (Engines and equipment) x2 =E-5
Intel repx2 = E-5
Frog, CAPT, USN (ret) Class 122
ZonieDiver
12-11-2009, 20:26
Not me.
Nor I.
Anybody care to read the charges - pretty straight forward.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
12-11-2009, 21:16
Anybody care to read the charges - pretty straight forward.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Not an attorney, but the charges look weak to me.
No mention of the fat lip, all I saw was allegations of three false statements, one attempt to influence, one punch to the gut.
Hmm.
TR
ZonieDiver
12-11-2009, 21:18
Not an attorney, but the charges look weak to me.
No mention of the fat lip, all I saw was allegations of three false statements, one attempt to influence, one punch to the gut.
Hmm.
TR
I concur. I hope they get the same type of JAG lawyer I got, who looked like he shined his shoes with a chocolate bar and a brick - but was a hell of an attorney.
No mention of the fat lip, all I saw was allegations of three false statements, one attempt to influence, one punch to the gut.
Which is exactly what all credible sources have said the case was all along vs all the misreported speculation.
Richard
MARSOC0211
12-12-2009, 00:20
Signed #26299
spherojon
12-12-2009, 03:16
I just saw this. Just wanted to see what you all thought.
Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist
Tuesday , November 24, 2009
By Rowan Scarborough
Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004. And for their trouble, three of the SEALs, members of the Navy's elite commando unit, are now facing criminal charges, sources told FoxNews.com.
The three have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral's mast — and requested a trial by court-martial.
Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named "Objective Amber," told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it.
Now, instead of being lauded for bringing to justice a high-value target, three of the SEAL commandos, all enlisted, face assault charges and have retained lawyers.
Matthew McCabe, a Special Operations Petty Officer Second Class (SO-2), is facing three charges: dereliction of performance of duty for willfully failing to safeguard a detainee, making a false official statement, and assault.
Petty Officer Jonathan Keefe, SO-2, is facing charges of dereliction of performance of duty and making a false official statement.
Petty Officer Julio Huertas, SO-1, faces those same charges and an additional charge of impediment of an investigation.
The three SEALs will be arraigned separately on Dec. 7. Another three SEALs — two officers and an enlisted sailor — have been identified by investigators as witnesses but have not been charged.
FoxNews.com obtained the official handwritten statement from one of the three witnesses given on Sept. 3, hours after Abed was captured and still being held at the SEAL base at Camp Baharia. He was later taken to a cell in the U.S.-operated Green Zone in Baghdad.
The SEAL told investigators he had showered after the mission, gone to the kitchen and then decided to look in on the detainee.
"I gave the detainee a glance over and then left," the SEAL wrote. "I did not notice anything wrong with the detainee and he appeared in good health."
Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, spokeswoman for the special operations component of U.S. Central Command, confirmed Tuesday to FoxNews.com that three SEALs have been charged in connection with the capture of a detainee. She said their court martial is scheduled for January.
United States Central Command declined to discuss the detainee, but a legal source told FoxNews.com that the detainee was turned over to Iraqi authorities, to whom he made the abuse complaints. He was then returned to American custody. The SEAL leader reported the charge up the chain of command, and an investigation ensued.
The source said intelligence briefings provided to the SEALs stated that "Objective Amber" planned the 2004 Fallujah ambush, and "they had been tracking this guy for some time."
The Fallujah atrocity came to symbolize the brutality of the enemy in Iraq and the degree to which a homegrown insurgency was extending its grip over Iraq.
The four Blackwater agents were transporting supplies for a catering company when they were ambushed and killed by gunfire and grenades. Insurgents burned the bodies and dragged them through the city. They hanged two of the bodies on a bridge over the Euphrates River for the world press to photograph.
Intelligence sources identified Abed as the ringleader, but he had evaded capture until September.
The military is sensitive to charges of detainee abuse highlighted in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. The Navy charged four SEALs with abuse in 2004 in connection with detainee treatment.
Things have changed since Ciero, "Silent enim leges inter arma."
Fox News vs Marine Corps Times.
Neither the bloody lip nor the claim that the captive made his complaint while under Iraqi control made by the Fox News sources were ever mentioned in the Marine Corps Times article - but the MCTimes' facts, including their reporting that the original report of the assault by a SEAL from ST 10 was made by a USN MA, correspond with the actual charges being made.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/11/navy_seals_charged_fallujah_112509w/
Credibility of the sources and fact checking before rushing to press :confused: But now it is up to the empaneled CMs to decide the matter - and not the various opinions of the Fourth Estate or all who weren't there.
And - did you mean Cicero?
And so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Peregrino
12-12-2009, 11:46
And - did you mean Cicero?
And so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I was scratching my head on that one too. NTM - The quote appears mis-applied in this case.
Anybody care to read the charges - pretty straight forward.
Richard's $.02 :munchinStatements will NOT be written unless, reviewed by a defense attorney FIRST!
Stay safe.
greenberetTFS
12-16-2009, 11:31
I am pretty sure that if Richard and I were on the same team during our stints in the service, we would have had a fist fight. He is one contrary SOB.
Playing devils advocate all the time is a little irritating.
Blue
Blue,
After considerable thought regarding your statement, I think you put out your comment when you were obviously in anger and I don't think you really mean it... I've never met Richard personally,but have had enough PM correspondence with him to say he's earned my respect...... And as a officer who came up the ranks from a private to a Major,I have enough trust and faith in him to wish I could have served under him and would follow him anywhere........He doesn't follow,he's a leader.......
Big Teddy :munchin
FYI - text of a 15 DEC letter sent by MG Cleveland to Rep. Dan Burton.
Richard
Dear Representative Burton,
Thank you for your letter expressing your and your colleagues concern regarding the pending Courts-martial of Petty Officers Huertas, McCabe, and Keefe. I understand your interest in these cases and can assure you that I am committed to protecting the rights of the Sailors who have been accused.
Regrettably it appears that your perception of the incident is based upon incomplete and factually inaccurate press coverage. Despite what has been reported, these allegations are not founded solely on the word of the detainee, but rather, were initially raised by other U.S. service members. Additionally, the alleged injuries did not occur during actions on the objective, as is also being widely reported in the media. A medical examination conducted at the time the detainee was turned over to U.S. forces determined that his alleged injuries were inflicted several hours after the operation had ended, and while in the custody and care of the U.S. at Camp Schweidler's detainee holding facility.
While the assault and resulting injury to the detainee were relatively minor, the more disconcerting allegations are those related to the Sailors' attempts to cover-up the incident, particularly in what appears to be an effort to influence the testimony of a witness. All of these allegations were fully investigated by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS).
As you have likely read, I chose to deal with this incident administratively via nonnjudicial punishment pursuant to Article 15 of the UCMJ. However, Petty Officers Huertas, McCabe and Keefe elected to exercise their UCMJ rights to refuse such a hearing. I have attached previously released, redacted copies of the charge sheets in the hope that they will help clarify the allegations surrounding this incident. These charges were drawn from information disclosed during the course of the investigation. The release of any further information at this time would be inappropriate as it might prejudice the outcome of the trial.
I take my military justice authority and responsibility for maintaining good order and discipline very seriously, as I have in six commands previously. Discipline and integrity are primary factors that make our U.S. Special Operators such an effective fighting force. The abuse of a detainee, no matter how minor, creates strategic repercussions that harm our nation's security and ultimately costs the lives of U.S. citizens. I must ensure that the service members under my command abide by the laws passed by Congress and follow the lawful orders of their superior officers. When there are reasonable grounds to believe that an offense has been committed, and that a specific individual in my command has committed that offense, it is my duty to take appropriate action to not only ensure justice is done, but also to maintain good order and discipline.
It is these factors that led me to refer these charges to Special Courts-martial. I assure you that the rights of these Sailors are being protected and they will have all of the facts of the case presented and reviewed fully by an impartial panel.
Sincerely,
CHARLES T. CLEVELAND MG, U.S. ARMY Commanding
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/12/text-letter-maj-gen-cleveland-rep-burton
Dozer523
01-08-2010, 17:57
FYI - text of a 15 DEC letter sent by MG Cleveland to Rep. Dan Burton.
Richard I love a well written "Shut the Fook Up" letter.
The Congressman's response.
Today, Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN-05) sent a response to Major General Charles Cleveland's explanation for why three Navy SEALs are currently standing trial for their alleged mistreatment of terrorist leader Ahmed Hashim Abed. Rep. Burton's letter is as follows:
January 4, 2010
Major General Charles T. Cleveland
Commander, Special Operations Command Central
U.S. Central Command
7115 South Boundary Boulevard
MacDill AFB, FL 33621-5101
Dear General Cleveland:
I received your letter of December 15, 2009, regarding the pending courts-martial of Petty Officers Huertas, McCabe and Keefe; and I appreciate your office’s attempting to set the record straight and clarify what you describe as the “incomplete and factually inaccurate” press coverage of the situation. Having reviewed all of the material you provided, I still have to strongly disagree with the decision of your officers to pursue punishment of these Navy SEALs.
Ahmed Hashim Abed was one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq; responsible for the murders of innocent American civilians and numerous attacks on American and coalition forces. The injuries to Mr. Abed were, as you readily admit, relatively minor and certainly pale in comparison to the brutality of the crimes he helped perpetrate. While Petty Officers Huertas, McCabe and Keefe may have been wrong to not fully cooperate with investigators, it seems to me that the punishment still far exceeds the crime. In my opinion, prosecutorial discretion should have been exercised.
Beyond the fates of the three individual sailors, I have some general concerns about this case that are only reinforced by your letter. First, the fact that fellow U.S. service personnel initially raised the accusations against Petty Officers Huertas, McCabe and Keefe strongly suggests that we have created a culture within our Armed Forces where our military personnel are now more concerned about protecting themselves from legal jeopardy for every action or statement, than they are about fighting the enemy. Our troops and these SEALs need to be bold and decisive in combat; not hesitant and over-thinking every action for fear of prosecution. We are in a war that we must win against a determined, patient enemy who already believes we do not have the will to do what is necessary to defeat them.
Second, because of the intensive media coverage of this case – even if it is incomplete and factually inaccurate as you describe, this is the public’s perception of the case – the American people are outraged by the courts-martial of individuals who should be hailed as heroes. In fact, over 30,000 Americans have signed my online petition calling for an end to this prosecution. Perhaps even more alarming than the decline in morale this case has caused the country is the boost in morale and confidence that this case gives to Al Qaeda terrorists, who as I said, already believe America does not have the will or stomach to do what is necessary to defeat them.
General Cleveland, you are a distinguished soldier and former Special Forces operator yourself. I have the utmost respect for you personally. In this case the American people’s perception is that you are unfairly prosecuting three heroes based, at least in part, upon the word of an inhumane monster. Al-Qaeda’s own handbook instructs their operatives to allege detainee abuse if detained by American forces. In fact, al-Qaeda operatives are trained to self-inflict injuries for the sole purpose of accusing U.S. forces of abuse. We've seen repeated cases of this since the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan began. In my opinion, carrying forward these courts-martial will do our Nation and our Armed Forces more harm than good. I respectfully and strongly urge you to exercise your leadership authority, stop the impending trials and drop the charges against these American heroes.
I await your prompt response.
Sincerely,
Dan Burton
Member of Congress
CC: Hon. Barack Obama, Hon. Robert Gates, Adm. Mike Mullen
http://www.kokomoperspective.com/news/article_b935ee6c-f96d-11de-8ae8-001cc4c03286.html
Election year politics. :mad:
Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin
ODA CDR (RET)
01-09-2010, 12:00
Need anyone say more?
greenberetTFS
01-09-2010, 12:17
The Congressman's response.
Election year politics.
Richard's jaded $.02 :munchin
Richard,shame on you...... :rolleyes: I'm glad at least he contacted the GM and expressed the majority of what Americans believe,even though he maybe playing politics...:rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
IMO - the honorable Congressman is wrong to attempt to interfere in the UCMJ process based upon his concerns regarding the public's perception of this matter as reported in the MSM. There are many pressing issues over which the good Congressman should be concerning himself - this is not one of them.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
ChickenMcFuggit
01-09-2010, 15:41
IMO - the honorable Congressman is wrong to attempt to interfere in the UCMJ process based upon his concerns regarding the public's perception of this matter as reported in the MSM. There are many pressing issues over which the good Congressman should be concerning himself - this is not one of them.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I would have to agree. His letter gives me flashbacks of many a defense attorney who, in pleading the case, plays on emotion and public misconception, ignoring the facts of the case.
Though I do feel this case will do more harm than good. Hope they are found to be innocent.
You are signer #37289
The Congressman represents the people who elected him. I say he's finally doing his job.
IMO - the honorable Congressman is wrong to attempt to interfere in the UCMJ process based upon his concerns regarding the public's perception of this matter as reported in the MSM. There are many pressing issues over which the good Congressman should be concerning himself - this is not one of them.
I agree. Clearly, Representative Burton would rather have public opinion determine justice in the armed services rather than evidence and the rules of procedure.
What happens next? Does the public get a say as to who does and does not get selected? The man tips his hand with the following back handed compliment to MG Cleveland.General Cleveland, you are a distinguished soldier and former Special Forces operator yourself. I have the utmost respect for you personally.This is to say that Burton's respect for MG Cleveland does not extend to that man's quiet professionalism.The Congressman represents the people who elected him. I say he's finally doing his job.I would be curious to know how undermining public confidence in the UCMJ and the professionalism of the American armed services advances the interests of his constituents.:confused:
I would have to agree. His letter gives me flashbacks of many a defense attorney who, in pleading the case, plays on emotion and public misconception, ignoring the facts of the case.
Though I do feel this case will do more harm than good. Hope they are found to be innocent.
Am a general public speaker here, and NO, my emotions have not been played upon, and NO, I do not have any misconceptions ignoring the facts, as have been presented in this case...
I just have a thing for those brave MEN who stand and fight, and bring down those individuals that seek to do US harm!
:munchin:)
The SEALs in this case, ARE HEROES, case closed, game over, zip up your fly, IMVHO!
Holly
ChickenMcFuggit
01-09-2010, 22:23
Am a general public speaker here, and NO, my emotions have not been played upon, and NO, I do not have any misconceptions ignoring the facts, as have been presented in this case...
Holly
I'm sorry if I wasn't speaking clearly, but I meant no offense to you. I was referring to the tactics used by the representative and the style with which he wrote the letter. It was as if he wrote it to the man but wrote it in a manner knowing that it would be made public, and directed it so.
Your support of the SEALs is not in any way misplaced and I feel the same way, but the politician in question is intentionally making it hard for the military justice system to work. With his tactics, he's casting doubt on it in the eyes of the public the military serves. Just not a good situation all around.
alright4u
01-10-2010, 03:15
IMO - the honorable Congressman is wrong to attempt to interfere in the UCMJ process based upon his concerns regarding the public's perception of this matter as reported in the MSM. There are many pressing issues over which the good Congressman should be concerning himself - this is not one of them.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I erased ?
PM answer sent. Richard
ZonieDiver
01-10-2010, 14:34
IMO - the honorable Congressman is wrong to attempt to interfere in the UCMJ process based upon his concerns regarding the public's perception of this matter as reported in the MSM. There are many pressing issues over which the good Congressman should be concerning himself - this is not one of them.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I, too, agree with the above assessment. As my distinguished colleague from Missouri (as Congress-critters like to say) says, it is time for Rep. Burton to "shut the fook up" until the wheels of UCMJ have turned. IF the result is not to his liking, that is the time to intercede, IMHO.
SkiBumCFO
01-11-2010, 13:48
Richard is spot on!! I would follow the good General anywhere (and have done so in the past) and i would not follow Rep. Burton to the men's room - even if i had to go really bad :) Anyone who has worked with the General (and many QPs have) knows he is a man of high intelligence, excellent judgment and most importantly he is a man of Honor. It still boggles my mind that he has made it that high up in the organization with those qualities!! There is a lot more to this than any of us will or need to understand. The Rep. should focus on more important matters like getting some of the gravy for his state and he should let the military justice system operate as intended. A few years after joining the civilian world the good general once told me that i should run for Congress - I have never forgiven him for that insult and usually remind him of it after a beer or two :)
Ya'll are missing an important part of Burton's letter: that he is disconcerted with the culture of the military wherein members feel that they must protect themselves against legal attack from within. Had they the confidence that the military would back them 100%, I doubt we would be seeing this play out.
Every shooting downrange has a 15-6 conducted. What "message" does that send to those pulling triggers?
Kearney attempted to prosecute two SF guys for murder for a good shoot conducted via the ROE.
The record is replete with instances of the command eating their own to prove some political point or to ensure their record is clear for further promotion.
The draw-down bred a generation of risk averse leaders. We are paying the price now. This is NOT to suggest that Cleveland is wrong....just symptomatic of a larger point active duty guys are faced with at present. Commanders have ceded too much authority to their lawyers.
craigepo
01-11-2010, 22:42
A military judge has decided to move the trials for two of three Navy SEALs accused in connection with the alleged assault of a suspected terrorist to Iraq.
Cmdr. Tierney Carlos, the trial judge for the courts-martial of Special Warfare Operator 2nd Class (SEAL) Jonathan Elliot Keefe and SO1 (SEAL) Julio Antonio Huertas Jr., agreed Monday with defense motions to move the trials to Camp Victory in Iraq so the sailors can face the alleged victim, Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the government sought to depose in lieu of a trial appearance. Keefe’s court-martial had been scheduled to begin April 6, while Huertas’ was supposed to begin Monday.
“If he is available for a deposition, then he is available for trial,” Carlos said during the hearing for Keefe Monday.
The U.S. thinks Abed masterminded the 2004 ambush in Fallujah, Iraq, in which four Blackwater security contractors were burned. Two of their bodies were hanged from a bridge.
Keefe, Huertas and SO2 (SEAL) Matthew McCabe are accused of making false statements in an alleged attempt to cover up the assault, as well as dereliction of duty. McCabe is also charged with assault. All three have pleaded not guilty to all charges.
Last month, Navy prosecutors asked a judge to delay the trials of McCabe and Huertas. Documents were submitted Dec. 30 to the trial judge, Capt. Moira Modzelewski, requesting the government continue Huertas’ special court-martial, scheduled to begin Monday, and that of McCabe, scheduled for Jan. 19.
Keefe’s lawyer, Greg McCormack, had already asked for a continuance at Keefe’s Dec. 20 arraignment, which was granted, continuing the court-martial until April 6.
McCormack told reporters after the December hearing that he was aware of photos and video of the alleged victim from during and after the attack, but had yet to see them.
That’s because, he said, much of the evidence is still undergoing classification review.
A hearing for McCabe is scheduled for Wednesday
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/01/navy_seal_detainee_case_011110w/
Bordercop
01-12-2010, 08:39
The link: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/01/navy_seals_trial_moved_to_iraq.html
Navy Seals trial moved to Iraq
Jane Jamison
The Newport News DailyPress.com reports :
Two of the three Navy elite commando SEALS who are facing military court martial for their arrest of an Islamic terrorist are going to have trials in Iraq so that they can exercise their right to confront their accuser face-to-face.
Special Warfare Operater 2nd Class Jonathan Keefe, Special Warfare Operator 1st Class Julio Huertas and Special Warfare Operator 2nd Class Matthew McCabe are accused of mistreating Ahmed Hashim Abed after arresting him and denying wrongdoing in later statements to commanders.
Abed is the accused Islamo-terrorist mastermind of the ambush, torture, murder, burning and hanging of 4 Blackwater contract personnel who were making a food delivery in Fallujah, Iraq in 2004. The American men, most of them former U.S. military, were dragged behind vehicles, burned and hung from a Euphrates river bridge while town crowds cheered.
U.S. Military commanders, (who apparently suffer from the same "politically-correct" illness as the President of the United States) allege that SWO2 McCabe may have punched Abed after his arrest. The alleged "crime" of the other two SEALS is, apparently, that they didn't rat out their fellow soldier. Abed may have also suffered a cut lip in the incident. Background on this story is here and here.
In the past few weeks, military prosecutors have sought to delay the trials of the SEALS and also tried to simply try the SEALS on the basis of a taped deposition of Abed. Attorneys for the SEALS demanded the right to confront and question their Muslim terrorist accuser in person at trial. The fact that the SEALS have to be flown to Iraq to protect their rights, their careers, their names and the SEALS' reputation is a shameful waste of time, expense and effort. The Christmas Day bombing attempt on an American jetliner shows the U.S. government has much more important business than prosecuting soldiers who were doing exemplary work tracking down a Muslim terrorist murder suspect.
The clock keeps ticking, the Obama administration has had plenty of time and still has more time to drop these charges and make this all go away. American soldiers being treated like terrorists. Terrorists being treated like soldiers. The silence from this White House on this matter is shameful.
The fact that the SEALS have to be flown to Iraq to protect their rights, their careers, their names and the SEALS' reputation is a shameful waste of time, expense and effort.
HUH???:confused: Let me get this straight...These SEALs are going back to Iraq, to face Mr. Terrorist-Jackass-MURDERER...as defendants??? WTH?:rolleyes:
Terrorists being treated like soldiers. The silence from this White House on this matter is shameful.
This seems to be the case to my tiny little civilian mind...but what do I know?:(
Holly
These SEALs are going back to Iraq, to face Mr. Terrorist-Jackass-MURDERER...as defendants??? WTH?One has the right to face his accusor in a court of law...
Bordercop
01-12-2010, 14:23
The SEALS asked for the trial to take place in Iraq in order to face their accuser, which is their right. I think the point of the article is that the charges should be dismissed.
One has the right to face his accusor in a court of law...
Yes Sir, thank you, understood.
Holly...(Just trying to wrap my brain around it is all...)
Surf n Turf
02-09-2010, 11:59
Update
SnT
The military has canceled the deposition of an alleged terrorist mastermind who claimed that he was assaulted by the military following his capture last year. The law firm Puckett and Faraj, representing Navy SEAL Matthew McCabe, made the announcement on Sunday.
Major General Charles Cleveland, the convening authority for the upcoming special courts-martial for three of the Navy SEALs involved in the operation, has decided to cancel the trip to Iraq to depose Ahmed Hashim Abed. Since the SEALs have a Constitutional right to confront their accuser in court, the alleged terrorist's statements won't be used as evidence for the case.
http://www.theusreport.com/the-us-report/military-cancels-detainee-interview-in-navy-seal-case.html
dr. mabuse
02-09-2010, 12:52
*
In my “civil oriented” opinion, if the government is not willing to produce Abed for a deposition, the assault charges should be dropped.
In my “civil oriented” opinion, if the government is not willing to produce Abed for a deposition, the assault charges should be dropped.
That would be my opinion as well. I betting the CM boards will view the same way.
craigepo
02-10-2010, 12:09
I'm curious about the three other Seals who have been called as witnesses. From the attached article, it seems they have hired counsel, and have asked for immunity.
By Kate Wiltrout
The Virginian-Pilot
© January 14, 2010
NORFOLK
The controversial prosecution of a Navy SEAL for allegedly assaulting an Iraqi terrorism suspect got more complicated Wednesday when three potential witnesses stopped cooperating and informed the court they have their own lawyer.
Petty Officer 2nd Class Matthew McCabe, assigned to SEAL Team 10 at Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek, is charged with assault after being accused of punching Ahmed Hashim Abed in the stomach shortly after his capture by U.S. forces in Fallujah in September. Abed is believed to be connected to the slayings of four Blackwater contractors in 2004.
McCabe's court-martial on three misdemeanor charges was scheduled to begin next week, but a military judge granted prosecutors' request for a delay Wednesday. The judge, Navy Capt. Moira Modzelewski, set McCabe's trial to begin in Norfolk on May 3.
Neal Puckett, McCabe's civilian defense lawyer, had opposed delaying the trial but reluctantly agreed to it after three other SEALs expected to testify notified the court they've retained their own lawyer.
Modzelewski said the three are asking for immunity. That's a decision that must be made by the convening authority - in this case, Army Maj. Gen. C.T. Cleveland, head of Special Operations Command Central.
Cleveland has come under fire for ordering the courts-martial of McCabe and two other SEALs charged with related offenses.
Petty Officer 1st Class
Julio Huertas and Petty Officer 2nd Class Jonathan Keefe, also members of SEAL Team 10, are accused of not safeguarding Abed and lying to investigators. Cleveland offered to handle the matter through non-judicial punishment, which could have effectively ended their careers, but the men chose to go to courts-martial.
On Monday, Cmdr. Tierney Carlos ruled that the trials of Huertas and Keefe should take place in April in Baghdad so Abed can testify.
Puckett has not asked for Abed to be made available to testify, which is part of the reason Modzelewski said she decided to keep McCabe's court-martial in Norfolk.
Monica Lombardi, Huertas' attorney, said all three cases are affected by the witnesses' decision to stop cooperating.
http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/trial-delayed-third-seal-suspect-0
Dozer523
02-10-2010, 14:05
I'm curious about the three other Seals who have been called as witnesses. From the attached article, it seems they have hired counsel, and have asked for immunity.
Never a good sign when your buds lawyer up and the ask for immunity before coming to your trial.
What the rule? Never be first, never be last; never volunteer.
craigepo
04-05-2010, 10:29
This is the first time I've noted that the witnesses seeking immunity were witnesses who were to testify in favor of the Defendant.
Judge: Grant immunity to witnesses for accused Navy SEALs
Five witnesses were present on the day of the alleged incident, but they have declined to testify because they were told that they, too, could face prosecution. The judge says if they’re not given immunity, he’ll halt the case.
NORFOLK
The case against a Navy SEAL accused of not protecting an alleged Iraqi terrorist took a major turn Friday when a military judge ordered that five key defense witnesses be granted immunity to testify on his behalf. If not, he warned, the case will be halted.
Petty Officer 1st Class Julio Huertas is one of three SEALs accused in the controversial case, which has led to protests and calls from members of Congress for the charges to be dropped.
Huertas faces court-martial on charges of dereliction of duty, impeding an investigation and making a false
official statement. A member of SEAL Team 10 at Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek, he was one of the commandos who captured Ahmed Hashim Abed in Fallujah in early September. A sailor guarding the detainee in the hours after his capture claimed to see one SEAL punch Abed while Huertas and a third SEAL watched.
Four other SEALs, including the detachment commander, and a Navy corpsman who were present on the day of the alleged incident dispute the guard's claims. But weeks into the investigation, they were told they, too, could face prosecution. As a result, the five hired a lawyer and requested immunity before testifying in the three cases that have gone forward.
In February, without giving a reason, Army Maj. Gen. C.T. Cleveland, the head of Special Operations Command Central, denied those requests.
The military judge hearing the case against Huertas, Cmdr. Tierney Carlos, said Friday he didn't understand that decision.
According to court documents, Carlos said, the five witnesses' testimony would shed doubt on the guard's allegations. Not granting them immunity, he ruled, is either an attempt to gain tactical advantage over the defense or evidence the government is overreaching.
Just as important, Carlos noted, is that the expected testimony would be exculpatory. Documents the men submitted about what happened between 5 and 8 a.m. the day after Abed's capture make clear that the guard was occasionally left alone with the detainee, Carlos said.
He also said that the detachment commander noticed blood on the detainee's shirt, and asked the guard what had happened. According to documents, Carlos said, the guard responded, "I don't know." Asked who was in the holding cell with Abed, the guard answered, "A lot of guys were in there." Did anyone do anything to Abed? "No. I don't know," the guard answered.
The five men's refusal to testify under their Fifth Amendment right doesn't mean they have anything to hide. Citing Supreme Court rulings, Carlos noted that one of the Fifth Amendment's basic functions "is to protect innocent men... 'who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances.' "
Carlos gave Cleveland until March 24 to provide immunity to the witnesses. If that doesn't happen, Huertas' court-martial will be abated - a legal term for postponing it indefinitely.
This is the second time Carlos has made a significant ruling in the defense's favor. In January, after the government indicated it would not bring Abed to the United States to testify in the court-martial, Carlos moved the trial to Baghdad, saying Huertas deserves to face his accuser.
His court-martial is set for April 22. Carlos also is presiding over the case against Petty Officer 2nd Class Jonathan Keefe, a SEAL accused of dereliction of duty. That trial, also in Iraq, will follow Huertas' court-martial.
The SEAL accused of punching Abed, Petty Officer 2nd Class Matthew McCabe, faces trial in Norfolk in May. A different judge is overseeing that case.
Monica Lombardi, Huertas' civilian defense counsel, said her client was very pleased with the ruling.
She said she was glad that Carlos "picked up on the fact that these witnesses... place the government's 'star witness' alone with the detainee."
Perhaps the guard punched Abed, or the detainee, who is accused of masterminding the murder of four Blackwater contractors in 2004, injured himself when he was briefly left alone.
"It doesn't really matter," Lombardi said. "The point is Petty Officer Huertas was not in on any sort of abuse of the detainee."
http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/judge-grant-immunity-witnesses-accused-navy-seals
They are trying to cover their ass as when on the stand something may be asked that had happened to them in the past that could bite them in the ass.
You know how those sneaky lawyers are they may dredge up something that was not on the table before.
Things happen in the moment that may not look right with time and not being there. I for one do not blame them for using a lawyer who is there to protect you. The court room can be a slippery place for those who are not used to it....
Just my .00002 cents
greenberetTFS
04-05-2010, 12:26
I believe Bryan is absolutely right,it makes damn good sense to have a lawyer with you in something as serious as this is...............;)
Big Teddy :munchin
Never a good sign when your buds lawyer up and the ask for immunity before coming to your trial.
What the rule? Never be first, never be last; never volunteer.
I would advised anyone entering the legal system be it civil or criminal to pay for the best counsel they can possibly afford.
craigepo
04-05-2010, 18:00
By Rowan Scarborough
Cracks are beginning to appear in the military's prosecution of three Navy SEALs accused of striking a most-wanted terrorism suspect they had captured in Iraq.
Maj. Gen. Charles Cleveland last week signed grants of immunity for five Navy colleagues of the accused.
Some of those five, three enlisted men and two officers, are expected at trial to flatly contradict the prosecution's key witness, according to a Navy source close to the case, which centers on the September 2009 capture of Ahmed Hashim Abed.
The witness, the master-at-arms at the base in Anbar province where the captured terrorist was brought, told investigators that he saw Abed being struck by one SEAL. One of the immunized witnesses identified by the master-at-arms for corroboration is not expected to support his testimony. The military has not released witness statements.
In addition, the defense has requested that the judge order the government to turn over the name of the Army officer who interrogated Abed once he was brought to Baghdad, where he remains in custody on order of an Iraqi judge. The disclosure would mean that defense attorneys may call him as a witness to testify about Abed's appearance after he left the SEALs' custody.
A judge has ruled that the military must produce Abed as a witness for courts-martial, scheduled to be conducted in Baghdad perhaps as early as next month. Defense attorneys, in front of a military jury, can expose Abed's history as the suspected mastermind of the 2004 Fallujah atrocity that left the bodies of U.S. contractors hanging mutilated on a bridge.
The master-at-arms told investigators that Abed was punched in the gut by Special Operations Petty Officer 2nd Class Matthew McCabe. Petty Officer McCabe denies hitting Abed.
"We're pleased about the immunity grants," said Neal Puckett, Petty Officer McCabe's attorney. "They allow witnesses who have favorable testimony to testify."
At some point during Abed's captivity that first day, blood appeared inside his lip. The Navy source said, "All these al Qaeda guys are trained to injure themselves and claim they were tortured."
Two other SEALs on the mission, Petty Officer 1st Class Julio Huertas and Petty Officer 2nd Class Jonathan Keefe, are charged with providing false statements, as is Petty Officer McCabe.
In another win for the defense, a military judge ruled last week that the prosecution may not use Petty Officer Keefe's statement that he did not see Abed struck. The judge said investigators did not advise Petty Officer Keefe that he could remain silent.
U.S. Central Command, where Gen. Cleveland oversees special operations forces, filed official charges in October. The assault charge against Petty Officer McCabe stated that the SEAL did "unlawfully strike Ahmad Hashim Abed in the midsection with his fist."
The false statement charge states that Petty Officer McCabe told a Naval Criminal Investigative Service investigator, "I did not assault nor did I see anyone assault or abuse" Abed.
Petty Officer McCabe says that statement is true. At a rally Saturday in Scottsdale, Ariz., to raise legal funds, he announced that he had passed an independent lie-detector test on the question, "Did you strike Abed?"
A statement on Mr. Puckett's Web site says, "These terrorists are trained to claim abuse despite no physical evidence of such. More importantly, they know the powerful influence of our mainstream media and legal system and are using these facets as tools against us. This tactic with resulting media attention is effective in causing our heroes to question their training and decisions, placing their missions, lives and our security in jeopardy."
The military's decisions to charge the SEALs who took a suspected terrorist off the streets has stirred protests from some members of Congress and ordinary Americans.
A Facebook page, "Support the Navy SEALs who Captured Ahmed Hashim Abed," has attracted nearly 120,000 members. Another Facebook page, "Americans United Against the Prosecution of 3 Navy SEALs," has nearly 265,000 members.
When the SEALs brought the captured Abed back to Camp Schwedler in September, they had executed a perfect mission. Based on an intelligence report on Abed's whereabouts, they surprised him while he slept in his bed, marched him back to their helicopter and evacuated the area without firing a shot.
The U.S. command in Iraq has refused to provide details on Abed except to say that he is being held.
Gen. Cleveland wrote to members of Congress saying his decision to charge the SEALs was influenced by evidence that they tried to cover up a suspected assault
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/29/case-against-3-seals-weakens/
Ret10Echo
04-22-2010, 04:00
US military jury clears SEAL in Iraq abuse case
By LARA JAKES, Associated Press Writer Lara Jakes, Associated Press Writer
16 mins ago
BAGHDAD – A U.S. military jury cleared a Navy SEAL Thursday of failing to prevent the beating of an Iraqi prisoner suspected of masterminding a 2004 attack that killed four American security contractors.
The contractors' burned bodies were dragged through the streets and two were hanged from a bridge over the Euphrates river in the former insurgent hotbed of Fallujah, in what became a major turning point in the Iraq war.
The trial of three SEALs, the Navy's elite special forces unit, has outraged many Americans who see it as coddling terrorists.
Petty Officer 1st Class Julio Huertas, 28, of Blue Island, Illinois, was found not guilty by a six-man jury of charges of dereliction of duty and attempting to influence the testimony of another service member.
The jury spent two hours deliberating the verdict.
Huertas is the first of three SEALS to face a court-martial for charges related to the abuse incident. All three SEALs could have received only a disciplinary reprimand, but insisted on a military trial to clear their names and save their careers.
The trial stems from an attack on four Blackwater security contractors who were driving through the city of Fallujah west of Baghdad in early 2004. The images of the bodies hanging from the bridge drove home to many the rising power of the insurgency and helped spark a bloody U.S. invasion of the city to root out the insurgents later that year.
The Iraqi prisoner who was allegedly abused, Ahmed Hashim Abed, testified Wednesday on the opening day of the trial at the U.S. military's Camp Victory on Baghdad's western outskirts that he was beaten by U.S. troops while hooded and tied to a chair.
Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class Kevin DeMartino, who was assigned to process and transport the prisoner and is not a SEAL, testified he saw one SEAL punch the prisoner in the stomach and watched blood spurt from his mouth. Huertas and the third SEAL were in the narrow holding-room at the time of the incident, he added.
But defense attorneys tried to cast doubt on the beating claims, showing photographs of Abed after the alleged beating in which he had a visible cut inside his lip but no obvious signs of bruising or injuries anywhere else.
In her closing arguments, Huertas' civilian attorney Monica Lombardi pointed to inconsistencies between DeMartino's testimony and nearly every other Navy witness. She also reminded the jury of the terrorism charges against Abed, who is in Iraqi custody and has not yet been tried, saying he could not be trusted and may have inflicted wounds on himself as a way of recasting blame on American troops.
But prosecutor Lt. Cmdr. Jason Grover said DeMartino said the SEALs were itching to abuse Abed as payback for the killings of the Blackwater guards — two of whom were former SEALs.
US military jury clears SEAL in Iraq abuse case
Associated Press
BAGHDAD
BAGHDAD (AP) — A U.S. military jury cleared a Navy SEAL Thursday of failing to prevent the beating of an Iraqi prisoner suspected of masterminding a 2004 attack that killed four American securit...
BAGHDAD (AP) — A U.S. military jury cleared a Navy SEAL Thursday of failing to prevent the beating of an Iraqi prisoner suspected of masterminding a 2004 attack that killed four American security contractors.
The contractors' burned bodies were dragged through the streets and two were hanged from a bridge over the Euphrates river in the former insurgent hotbed of Fallujah, in what became a turning point in the Iraq war.
The trial of three SEALs, the Navy's elite special forces unit, in the abuse case has outraged many Americans who see it as coddling terrorists.
A six-man jury found Petty Officer 1st Class Julio Huertas, 29, of Blue Island, Illinois, not guilty of charges of dereliction of duty and attempting to influence the testimony of another service member. The jury spent two hours deliberating the verdict.
"It's a big weight off my shoulders," a smiling and composed Huertas said as he left the courthouse at the U.S. military's Camp Victory on Baghdad's western outskirts.
"Compared to all the physical activity we go through, this has been mentally more challenging."
Huertas said he plans now to continue with his military career and "to go home and kiss my wife."
Huertas was the first of three SEALS to face a court-martial for charges related to the abuse incident and the verdict was a major blow to the government's case. All three SEALs could have received only a disciplinary reprimand, but insisted on a military trial to clear their names and save their careers.
The trial stems from an attack on four Blackwater security contractors who were driving through the city of Fallujah west of Baghdad in early 2004. The images of the bodies hanging from the bridge drove home to many the rising power of the insurgency and helped spark a bloody U.S. invasion of the city to root out the insurgents later that year.
The Iraqi prisoner who was allegedly abused, Ahmed Hashim Abed, testified Wednesday on the opening day of the trial that he was beaten by U.S. troops while hooded and tied to a chair.
Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class Kevin DeMartino, who was assigned to process and transport the prisoner and is not a SEAL, testified he saw one SEAL punch the prisoner in the stomach and watched blood spurt from his mouth. Huertas and the third SEAL were in the narrow holding-room at the time of the incident, he added.
But defense attorneys tried to cast doubt on the beating claims, showing photographs of Abed after the alleged beating in which he had a visible cut inside his lip but no obvious signs of bruising or injuries anywhere else.
In her closing arguments, Huertas' civilian attorney Monica Lombardi pointed to inconsistencies between DeMartino's testimony and nearly every other Navy witness. She also reminded the jury of the terrorism charges against Abed, who is in Iraqi custody and has not yet been tried, saying he could not be trusted and may have inflicted wounds on himself as a way of casting blame on American troops.
"There was no abuse," Lombardi said. "This is classic terrorist training."
After the verdict, Lombardi said the jurors told her they had made their ruling because there were too many inconsistencies in the case and that they did not believe the prisoner.
Prosecutors refused to comment after the verdict, but in his closing argument Lt. Cmdr. Jason Grover said the SEALs were itching for payback for the killings of the Blackwater guards — two of whom were former SEALs — and that now the elite unit had "circled the wagons."
The court-martial of Petty Officer 2nd Class Jonathan Keefe, of Yorktown, Virginia, who is also charged with dereliction of duty on allegations he failed to safeguard the prisoner, is scheduled to begin Friday also at Camp Victory.
Petty Officer 2nd Class Matthew McCabe, of Perrysburg, Ohio, the SEAL charged with assaulting Abed, is scheduled to be court-martialed May 3 in Virginia, where the three men are based.
craigepo
04-22-2010, 08:00
Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class Kevin DeMartino, who was assigned to process and transport the prisoner and is not a SEAL, testified he saw one SEAL punch the prisoner in the stomach and watched blood spurt from his mouth...
In her closing arguments, Huertas' civilian attorney Monica Lombardi pointed to inconsistencies between DeMartino's testimony and nearly every other Navy witness.
THAT is reasonable doubt.
Looking at this as a detached observer, I have a couple of observations:
1. The SEALS that got charged and demanded a court-martial have some huge stones;
2. General Cleveland's act of granting immunity to the other SEALS, so that they could testify on behalf of the charged defendant/SEAL, was huge, and showed that the General was pursuing justice.
3. If you needed a reason to be proud of the military justice system, this is it. The SEAL gets charged, maintains his innocence, demands a trial. General Cleveland, who is in charge and wasn't there, gets handed a public relations "sh*t sandwich", and the only thing he can do is go the court martial route. The case goes to trial, and a neutral jury (not a biased judge as when the Nazi judges were ruling for Hitler) finds the SEAL not guilty. Moreover, the whole world now knows that this was one person's word against a whole bunch of other people.
Green Light
04-22-2010, 08:29
Charlie Cleveland was a neighbor of mine when he was the commander of A/3/7 and later S-3 of 3/7. He's a heck of a guy and a man of principle, not to mention one of the best soldiers/officers I've known. I was not at all surprised when he made the move to make the truth come out.
The system worked.
Violent agreement, your honor.
:lifter
NousDefionsDoc
04-22-2010, 09:13
Mmmmm, anybody else get the feeling the good General is a chess player? I would love to hear the back stories on all this.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/uw.php
The Reaper
04-22-2010, 09:41
Charlie Cleveland is a good man, and I think this has thus far turned out just as it should.
If he had offered the Article 15s and they declined, requesting a trial and he then dropped charges, he would either look weak or like he was not doing his job of justice and due diligence. No cover-up here, the first SEAL was afforded his opportunity in court and was acquitted of all charges by a jury of his peers.
Now let's see what happens to the other two sailors before we start planning the victory party.
TR
Snaquebite
04-22-2010, 09:56
Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class Kevin DeMartino, who was assigned to process and transport the prisoner and is not a SEAL, testified he saw one SEAL punch the prisoner in the stomach and watched blood spurt from his mouth...
How would this be possible? Abed admitted that he was hooded in previous testimony.
I have to agree with everyone's opinion of Cleveland...good man.