View Full Version : The Berlin Wall
mojaveman
11-08-2009, 12:54
Tomorrow will mark the 20th anniversary of the begining of the fall of the Iron Curtain. It began with the dismantling of the Wall by the ordinary citizens of East Berlin. When I was watching the event on television two decades ago I had difficulty believeing what I was witnessing. Anyone who served in Europe during the Cold War can remember what it was like back then and can probably identify with the magnitude of that historical event. I didn't participate in any of the armed border operations and wasn't stationed in Berlin but did spend some time in Stuttgart. It still stirs me everytime I watch the old news reels of those common people hammering away at the barrier that denied them their freedom for so many decades.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/11/07/obama-refused-honor-fall-berlin-wall-anniversary/
but it still stirs me every time I see the old news reels of those common people hammering away at the barrier that denied them their freedom for nearly half a century.
Unfortunately as the above article mentions, the One does not share your emotions. It's somewhat unfathomable how he could not attend. Perhaps we are beginning to zero in on who the One really is. Perhaps Zero should be his anointed integer. In the editorial section of today's local newspaper there's a quote from his address to a crowd in NY at a fund raiser:
Democrats are an opinionated bunch."he said to much laughter and applause. "You know, the other side, they just kind of - sometimes-do what they're told. Democrats, you all are thinking for yourselves."
To appreciate the event, one needs to understand history, have a sense of compassion and enough imagination to generate empathy with all those who were in servitude. I guess it isn't so surprising now.
The Reaper
11-08-2009, 17:27
It already looks like the Ft. Hood memorial service will be scheduled around The One's demanding golf schedule.
Certainly no time to go to Europe and admit that Reagan and the capitalists were right, and the Commie loving socialists were wrong.
TR
Dozer523
11-08-2009, 20:57
In 1968 I was 12 YO and living in Nuremberg Germany (Dad was assigned to the 1-94th FA, 4th Armored Div.) We took the Troop Train to Berlin. The train departed after dinner and took all night. We were in sleeper compartments where the seats turned into beds and the wall sort of pulled out. A porter came and made up the beds. (AMTRAK has nothing on European train travel!) The first thing I remember was waking up in the middle of the night, and going into the hall and watching East Germany go by. Each rail crossing had a guard post. I'd wave, and the guard often waved back. . . as long as they were alone. The second thing I remember was walking along the wall and seeing the memorials to the East Germans who had been killed trying to cross. Fresh flowers and pictures. Very graphic for a 6th grader. Third thing was taking a tour of the city and part of it was on a lake. That part of the border ran through the middle of a lake seemed so odd. Our boat was shadowed by a similar small boat. One of the East German guards dropped his hand to the water-line and waved to me. I started to raise my hand and Dad said, "Don't do it, he'll get in trouble." Last significant memory was passing through Checkpoint Charlie (leaving Dad behind, he wasn't allowed to go) and visiting places in East Berlin. It seemed very dingy and parts were hardly repaired. We visited the Soviet War Memorial. It was amazing and it seemed so "in your face, Germany".
The wall seemed so permanent then. When I went back in 1979 on AD I had no desire to return to Berlin. But I did see the Inter-German Boarder (IGB). I looked at that and knew it would always be there until the Soviets knocked it down on their way to Frankfurt and Bonn.
Ten years and a two new Presidents (but I give all the credit to President Reagan) it fell like cards to civilians.
Last thing, it is so appropriate that a section is located at the Reagan Library.
My dad was stationed in Bad Kreuznach at the 8th Division HQ. In 1961 I was attending BKHS and playing football. One of the teams that we played was Berlin American HS in Berlin. We had to travel from the Frankfurt HBF to Berlin overnight and when we got to Berlin, we were put up in Army Barracks that had an olympic pool situated with the barracks that we stayed in.
The highlight of the trip was touring the "wall" that was under construction. I managed to kick it and take home a souvenier piece of the wall.
Some good 20 year old breaking news:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnCPdLlUgvo&feature=featured
greenberetTFS
11-09-2009, 12:03
I left Germany over 50 years ago,before the Wall...... It's now 20 years after the Wall has come down........ and so it goes........
Big Teddy :munchin
If you ever get a chance to hit the Berlin Wall Museum, it's definitely worth it IMHO. Liberals and advocates of a socialist state might be shocked at the lengths folks went to escape " The Worker's Paradise."
Of note was the story of a young man who figured out a certain convertible would clear below the height of the checkpoint barricade. He practiced accelerating in a straight line in reverse while leaning over into the passenger seat. He put his girlfriend in the trunk, drove up to the checkpoint acted lost and then turned back, when the guards relaxed he leaned over into the passenger seat and floored it backwards to freedom. One cool customer.
The other interesting story was that of the border guard who astutely surmised the crowd of East Germans crossing the first day was larger than the capacity of his magazine. The guide revealed a consistent request from folks who crossed was for bananas and ketchup, apparently neither a priority in East Germany.
mojaveman
11-09-2009, 13:04
If you ever get a chance to hit the Berlin Wall Museum, it's defintely worth it IMHO. Liberals and advocates of a socialist state might be shocked at the lengths folks went to escape " The Worker's Paradise."
Of note was the story of a young man who figured out a certain convertible would clear below the height of the checkpoint barricade. He practiced accelerating in a straight line in reverse while leaning over into the passenger seat. He put his girlfriend in the trunk, drove up to the checkpoint acted lost and then turned back, when the guards relaxed he leaned over into the passenger seat and floored it backwards to freedom. One cool customer.
The other interesting story was that of the border guard who astutely surmised the crowd of East Germans crossing the first day was larger than the capacity of his magazine. The guide revealed a consistent request from folks who crossed was for bananas and ketchup, apparently neither a priority in East Germany.
You are correct AKV,
Some of the escape stories are incredible. The man who built a hot air balloon at home and then flew his family to freedom, the stunt pilot who did the same thing but with an airplane. How about the doctor who swam to Denmark? Another guy did it but with a kayak. The stories go on...
Rumblyguts
11-09-2009, 13:47
You are correct AKV,
Some of the escape stories are incredible. The man who built a hot air baloon at home and flew his family to freedom, the stunt pilot who did the same thing but with an airplane. How about the doctor who swam to Denmark? Another guy did it but with a kayak. The stories go on...
I think the balloon crossing was made into a movie, Night Crossing. I remember seeing it as a kid (5th grade? ) - it's still in my mind nearly 30 years later.
NPR has several guests on who were around the wall at the time it came down. It seem that the rapididty of events caught most by surprise. One embassy official called-in to his highers and Washington thinking that folks would cross in an orderly fashon the next day. Apparently the East Germans took the slip of "immediatly" at face value. The embassy official called back "We'd like to correct our estimated time table."
"Mr Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr Gorbachev...Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjWDrTXMgF8
Peter Fritsche, a historian, offers an interesting observation.The ninth of November has proved to be a loaded day in German history: it marks the outbreak of the 1918 Revolution, Hitler's failed putsch in 1923, the pogom against Jews in 1938, and, more than fifty years later, the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989.**
_________________________________________
* ISBN-13: 9780198730576
** Peter Fritsche, Life and Death in the Third Reich (ISBN-13: 9780674027930), pp. 133-134.
greenberetTFS
11-10-2009, 14:51
"Mr Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr Gorbachev...Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjWDrTXMgF8
How badly we need a President with cajones like this,instead we get BHO........I wonder if he suffers from PMS on his monthly curse...................:mad:
Big Teddy :munchin
Dozer523
11-10-2009, 17:19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nch5MbnvTqY&feature=related
greenberetTFS
11-11-2009, 13:01
Excellent post Dozer,very sobering reminder of what that Wall was really about.........:(
Big Teddy :munchin
Story/Question:
My son asked me if I ever saw the Wall. I was in the FRG -- back when there was an FRG and a DDR -- at a little place called Bad Toltz in 1981, just on a short tour of 21 days from an unclassified middle east project. I wanted to go see the Wall, but i was told that SHAFE HQ had to approve all trips into East Germany if the tourist/soldier had a TS/SCI clearance. And I was told, the process would take weeks.
Anybody know if that was true, or just the S2's way of keeping me on Flint Kasern (not that I minded too much, since the ski season had just begun).
Surf n Turf
11-15-2009, 17:04
Story/Question:
My son asked me if I ever saw the Wall. I was in the FRG -- back when there was an FRG and a DDR -- at a little place called Bad Toltz in 1981, just on a short tour of 21 days from an unclassified middle east project. I wanted to go see the Wall, but i was told that SHAFE HQ had to approve all trips into East Germany if the tourist/soldier had a TS/SCI clearance. And I was told, the process would take weeks.
Anybody know if that was true, or just the S2's way of keeping me on Flint Kasern (not that I minded too much, since the ski season had just begun).
CSB,
Don’t know about 1981, but in the 1960’s if you had such a clearance, you had get approval from your unit, take the “B” train to Berlin, register with Berlin Brigade S2, and as you were not permitted to go into the East Zone under any circumstances. You could visit in the Brits and the French areas. For exfil, again with Berlin Brigade S2, and the “B” train. There were a few MOS that were "travel restricted"(known prior to deployment to Europe), but as far as I remember, none specifically in the Special Forces area.
SnT
Dozer523
11-15-2009, 23:42
i was told that SHAFE HQ had to approve all trips into East Germany if the tourist/soldier had a TS/SCI clearance. And I was told, the process would take weeks.Anybody know if that was true,. It's why my dad stayed behind. As an FA officer, Dad had a TS. Heading into Communist territory and getting the "you'll have to be the 'man of the house' since I can't go" speech had a litle bit of an impact on me. At every Christmas dinner since, that trip is subtitled "when Bro Doz went nutso". "Hey", as Dad points out, "He brought you all back alive, didn't he?";)
Thank you for the information.
Being in the 50-5 program and holding a TS/SBI - we weren't permitted to travel to Berlin.
Richard