View Full Version : Fort Hood Shooting
Chris Cram
11-05-2009, 14:31
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
At least seven people are dead and 12 wounded in a shooting at Fort Hood in Texas, the base's public affairs office told NBC News on Thursday.
The official would not give his name nor additional details. It was unknown whether victims are soldiers or civilians. One gunman was reportedly in custody and another was on the loose, NBC News said. A third shooter may be involved, according to NBC News affiliate KCEN.
KCEN in Waco reported that the second suspect may be holed up in a building on the post.
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/69305427.html
A link to another story.
A prayer for the soldiers and their families.
Ret10Echo
11-05-2009, 14:35
Read one storyline that stated authorities had one gunman in custody and one was still on the loose.
Prayers out to the families....and for those in the hunt for #2.
The Reaper
11-05-2009, 15:01
Third shooter now reported, 7 dead, 30+ wounded.
If true, could be terrorism, not likely to be pissed off husband or an angry white male.
Time will tell. Prayers out.
TR
I was flicking back and forth between CNN and Fox.
We are in the talking head time where nobody knows whats going on but they are talking to fill time.
The question is two or three shooters. The incident started with two shooters and the Readiness Center - one was caught and the other ran off. There was then a second incident at another location. They are not sure if it's a third shooter or just the second one at another location.
greenberetTFS
11-05-2009, 15:09
Better not be terrorists, especially Islamic.......:mad::mad::mad:
Big Teddy :munchin
prayers
RIP
and just omg in general :( :(:mad:
Utah Bob
11-05-2009, 15:18
Spokesman said one shooter was wounded and captured by MPs. One other id currently "cornered".
Local live coverage here
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22886841#22886841
RIP To the Dead, Vaya con Dios.
Prayers to the families & wounded..
RIP for the dead, prayers for the ones still fighting for life...I hope the count doesn't go up any more.
Terrible stuff, hope they get theirs...
cowboykpy
11-05-2009, 15:48
CNN reporting 12 dead and 1 alleged gunman killed.
Not a fan of MSNBC, but just heard from them that "Shooter in custody is Army Major with 'Arabic sounding name'"
cornelyj
11-05-2009, 15:53
12 dead, 31 wounded!
Total facility lock-down.
Loadsmasher
11-05-2009, 15:54
3 Shooters. One dead, one captured, one possibly still on the loose.
Situation wasn't even resolved before kay bailey-hutchinson was trying to get some air time. She just lost my vote for Gov.
The Great one will be along shortly to bring hope and change.
Foot Hood CG (LTG Cone) just on local news and stated:
Shooter was a soldier w/2 pistols who entered Soldier Readiness Facility o/a 1330 and killed 12 - wounded 31.
Shooter killed by DOD Police.
2 others in custody (suspects).
Unknown reason for shooting at this time.
Snaquebite
11-05-2009, 16:05
Already pissed at The One...comes on and places his agenda and politics first...
Anyone watching The One.
Starts out with grandstanding and giving a "shout out" to his friends.
Doesn't even have the ability to clearly speak and is completely incapable of showing remorse or any sense of emotion.
This will be beyond BIG in the near future. We'll see what comes down now. I feel for those that chose the rightly guided path, but don't participate in extremist shit like this.
Edited to add: Seems the SGM and I share a common hatred. Agreed Snaquebite
greenberetTFS
11-05-2009, 16:12
Major Malik Hassan is the one shooter they have identified..... Supposed to be a recent convert to Islam.......
Big Teddy :munchin
The Reaper
11-05-2009, 16:13
Already pissed at The One...comes on and places his agenda and politics first...
Saw that, everyone in our office was shocked.
Probably had to go with what was on the TelePrompter and wait for the new speaking points to be added.
Breaking news, shooter was Major Malik Nadal Hasan.
Probably from the religion of peace.
Good thing Homeland Security and LE were looking out for domestic terrorism from angry white veteran gun-owning males.
TR
Warrior-Mentor
11-05-2009, 16:24
Third shooter now reported, 7 dead, 30+ wounded.
If true, could be terrorism, not likely to be pissed off husband or an angry white male.
Time will tell. Prayers out.
TR
The suspected gunman was identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan. He was killed and two other suspects have been apprehended, Lt. Robert W. Cone said.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938
Quote from the story: "The CounterTerrorist Unit said they have "no word" yet on whether this incident was terrorism-related. "
DAH - OK BOSS - Whatever you say BOSS!
Blitzzz (RIP)
11-05-2009, 16:30
Every news agency I'm listening to are full of speculations and all are trying to sound as if they really had a clue. THEY NEED TO SHUTUP>..
Snaquebite
11-05-2009, 16:30
I listened to the interview with LTG Robert Cone and he did not mention any names. Wonder where ABC is getting this.
Red Flag 1
11-05-2009, 16:31
Prayers out for the fallen and their families!!
RE: the one, saluting caskets for political gain. Sen Hutchinson doing a much better job, IMHO.
RF 1
Situation wasn't even resolved before [Senator Kay Bailey-Hutchinson] was trying to get some air time. She just lost my vote for Gov. I didn't see that part of her interview. The part I've seen she politely sparred with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.
Mr. Blitzer sought to develop a "renegade soldier" angle while Senator Hutchinson pointed out that it could have been an unauthorized civilian impersonating a soldier. Mr. Blitzer did not take the hint and kept pressing the "speculation" button.
That being said, I do wish that national politicians who are just repeating information they received would just refer journalists to a point of contact.
Evidently, CNN is rebroadcasting the president's comments without the comments that outraged members of this BB.
kimberly
11-05-2009, 16:37
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938
"The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan"
I listened to the interview with LTG Robert Cone and he did not mention any names. Wonder where ABC is getting this.
Sounds like ABC thinks they uncovered that information on their own.
rubberneck
11-05-2009, 16:38
This stuff makes me sick. RIP to those who have passed and a speedy recovery to those inured.
rubberneck
11-05-2009, 16:40
"The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan"
Sounds like ABC thinks they uncovered that information on their own.
Shepard Smith was interviewing Senator Hutchinson and she knew the shooters name but did not want to comment on it publicly. I got the feeling from her reluctance that ABC was probably right on the mark.
Damn... Prayers for the families and victims...
Rest in Peace Soldiers and I hope they terminate any one involved....
The Reaper
11-05-2009, 16:43
Shepard Smith was interviewing Senator Hutchinson and she knew the shooters name but did not want to comment on it publicly. I got the feeling from her reluctance that ABC was probably right on the mark.
I agree, and Shep is a little punk for not calling it. Probably afraid of CAIR backlash.
How long do you think it would take for them to name the suspects if Billy Bob Jones and two of his buddies shot 43 people at a mosque?
TR
Some local callers to 98 KMBZ are extremely upset that the hosts mentioned the possibility of 'terrorism' and not PTSD.....I mean livid!
Whatever it is, it is a very sad day.
The Reaper
11-05-2009, 16:55
Some local callers to 98 KMBZ are extremely upset that the hosts mentioned the possibility of 'terrorism' and not PTSD.....I mean livid!
Whatever it is, it is a very sad day.
A Muslim physician with possible PTSD just before a deployment?
Hmm.
TR
Snaquebite
11-05-2009, 16:56
Pissed again.
A traditional moment of silence is 0ne minute....Queen Pelosi slamed the gavel after a WHOLE 12 seconds.....:mad:
Edited to add ...and that Freak Michael J. got almost a full one minute.
kimberly
11-05-2009, 16:57
Some local callers to 98 KMBZ are extremely upset that the hosts mentioned the possibility of 'terrorism' and not PTSD.....I mean livid!
Whatever it is, it is a very sad day.
It has been explained that PTSD doesn't go down like this did. There were seemingly three individuals involved indicating it was premeditated; not characteristic of PTSD.
A Muslim physician with possible PTSD just before a deployment?
Hmm.
TR
With the possibility of 2-3 people involved and with the other information that has been released.......Since it is time for prayers, I'll keep my judgmental opinion to myself.
Red Flag 1
11-05-2009, 17:06
Major Malik Hassan is the one shooter they have identified..... Supposed to be a recent convert to Islam.......
Big Teddy :munchin
You got it right Big Teddy!
If there is any good news here, two have been arrested for questioning.
Likely NOT PTSD!!!
RF 1
TOMAHAWK9521
11-05-2009, 17:18
Got a nephew (E-4), uncle (retired O-6) and an aunt down there. Spoke to nephew 45 minutes ago. Nephew said he was out in the field playing aggressor when it went down and so far have been locked down outside main post. Heard from other family members that my uncle dropped his wife off at thrift store and was on his way to help out with some volunteer stuff at his old unit when MPs and EMS went back the way he came from. Last I heard, my aunt was safe in the thrift store under lock down and my uncle was locked down at the BN HQ.
Having had to go through all the PTSD and suicide classes while in the WTU at Carson, this wasn't PTSD gone bad. This was something else entirely.
HowardCohodas
11-05-2009, 17:18
I'm angry beyond words. :mad: I'm sad for the families. May all who can be menachem-ovel (comfort the mourner)
Why are military bases gun-free zones?
For any who missed it here is the Commander in Chief talking about the , ah, hmm, well, see for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMM
The Reaper
11-05-2009, 17:22
Why are military bases gun-free zones?
They weren't always.
Weapons used to be stored in the barracks in racks.
TR
TOMAHAWK9521
11-05-2009, 17:27
For any who missed it here is the Commander in Chief talking about the , ah, hmm, well, see for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMM
Well, at least he opted to allow the authorities and chain of command to investigate the incident before passing judgement as he did in the Harvard Prof situation.
For any who missed it here is the Commander in Chief talking about the , ah, hmm, well, see for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMMDid the president go out there, start reading one speech and then get an update on the teleprompter and then shift focus to address the shooting?:confused:
Blitzzz (RIP)
11-05-2009, 17:32
i'm really sorry for all the families but in particular the families who have just greeted their spouses from deployment. How f__king sad. This wasn't one shooter, no way, 12 dead and 31 wounded, no way, More shooters. He could not have done this without being "Bum Rushed" by reciently returned warriors.
I'll put my money one other shooters with similar names.
I just watched the "shout out" part of his speech... didn't see it earlier, and all I have to say is WTF??!!
Seriously? I can't believe that it took him TWO MINUTES AND THIRTY SECONDS to get to the actual Fort Hood shooting in his "Fort Hood Shooting" speech. There's plenty of things I want to say but I believe I will say them out loud, at my computer.
Did the president go out there, start reading one speech and then get an update on the teleprompter and then shift focus to address the shooting?:confused:
Even if that was what that is....he needs to grow a brain. He obviously knew what the main reason for him being on that podium was about. That was a bigger failure of a speech than ANYTHING Bush did, and it was delivered with none of Bush's speaking mistakes.
Even if that was what that is....he needs to grow a brain. He obviously knew what the main reason for him being on that podium was about. That was a bigger failure of a speech than ANYTHING Bush did, and it was delivered with none of Bush's speaking mistakes.Soak60--
Just double checking your meaning. Are you saying that if he did receive news of the shooting for the first time on the teleprompter, he needed to handle the transition better than he did?:confused:
Remington Raidr
11-05-2009, 17:44
Even if that was what that is....he needs to grow a brain. He obviously knew what the main reason for him being on that podium was about. That was a bigger failure of a speech than ANYTHING Bush did, and it was delivered with none of Bush's speaking mistakes.
Way to prioritize, MR. PRESIDENT.
Been home sick all day without the TV on, this is the first I have heard. My thoughts and prayers to the family.
Basenshukai
11-05-2009, 17:49
My prayers and thoughts are with the fallen and their families.
And, as far as POTUS, as much as I respect his office I am really, really glad that I did NOT vote for him. I'm glad I don't have that on my conscience.
Soak60--
Just double checking your meaning. Are you saying that if he did receive news of the shooting for the first time on the teleprompter, he needed to handle the transition better than he did?:confused:
From my understanding of the footage of his speech, he knew about the shooting when he stepped up to the podium and either read off the teleprompter (bad) or just winged that first 2:30 (worse). If that really was the first he heard of it, reading off the teleprompter, his reaction to the news and his segue into it was horrible but forgivable.
greenberetTFS
11-05-2009, 17:53
Rest in Peace, Warriors .................:(
Big Teddy
Soak60--
Just double checking your meaning. Are you saying that if he did receive news of the shooting for the first time on the teleprompter, he needed to handle the transition better than he did?:confused:
Sigaba;
I took Soak60's post for it's face value. It was a screw up of a major scale - or that's just the way he is - for the President. The country had been following the story for a couple of hours before he took to the stands. There is no way that he did not know about it prior to stepping up to the telepromter.
The MSM loved to rub the nose of Bush in the Goat Book during 9/11. That was the moment Bush was told and he acted the way he did. We now see the Commander in Chief after something has happened and he's thought about it for a while.
Well, now we know - and so does the world.
Utah Bob
11-05-2009, 18:12
Anyone watching The One.
Starts out with grandstanding and giving a "shout out" to his friends.
Doesn't even have the ability to clearly speak and is completely incapable of showing remorse or any sense of emotion.
This will be beyond BIG in the near future. We'll see what comes down now. I feel for those that chose the rightly guided path, but don't participate in extremist shit like this.
Edited to add: Seems the SGM and I share a common hatred. Agreed Snaquebite
I had to turn off the TV and go outside when I saw that.:mad:
He just doesn't get it, and never will.
Utah Bob
11-05-2009, 18:15
From my understanding of the footage of his speech, he knew about the shooting when he stepped up to the podium and either read off the teleprompter (bad) or just winged that first 2:30 (worse). If that really was the first he heard of it, reading off the teleprompter, his reaction to the news and his segue into it was horrible but forgivable.
They said he was informed of the incident by his staff about a half hour before he spoke.
US Patriot
11-05-2009, 18:17
My heart is heavy for all those that have gone to Valhalla.... peace be with you my brothers .... For all those are wounded.... I wish them a speedy recovery.. And for the Families who have lost may God watch over you and calm your soul.......
As for the One..... I am appalled that it took him 2+ minutes to mention the shooting...
This guy is a Muslim convert... which will probably get buried....
Maybe if there were CCW on military installations this could have ended before so many were killed and injured.....
The only "Good" that came out of this is that he is dead and there won't be a long drawn out trial....
sneakypete
11-05-2009, 18:18
Hasan was a Psychiatrist. Hope he's burning in hell.
Nidal Malik Hasan, MD
LICENSE # 0101238630
Issue Date: 7/12/2005
Expiration Date: 9/30/2010
Status: Current Active
http://www.vahealthprovider.com/results_generalinfo.asp?License_No=0101238630
He got a promotion in may.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/04/army_officer_list_042009w/
From my understanding of the footage of his speech, he knew about the shooting when he stepped up to the podium and either read off the teleprompter (bad) or just winged that first 2:30 (worse). If that really was the first he heard of it, reading off the teleprompter, his reaction to the news and his segue into it was horrible but forgivable.
There is no way that he did not know about it prior to stepping up to the telepromter.I was so aghast with the first portion of the speech that I missed the comments he offered later. He does confirm that he'd spoken to Secretary Gates and Admiral Mullen. So he absolutely did know before going up there what was happening.
There's no way he can deny it.
And, as far as POTUS, as much as I respect his office I am really, really glad that I did NOT vote for him. I'm glad I don't have that on my conscience.
My thoughts are with the families, and you hit the nail on the head here Sir.
Holly
He was a VA Tech grad! :confused:
Those Hokies just can't get a break.
Warrior-Mentor
11-05-2009, 18:24
Shooter's cousin is on FOX News now...
Saying shooter "is a good American..."
"His colleagues harassed him...that's why this happened."
Cousin's name is Nadar Hassan.
Said that shooter has always been a Muslim.
SHOOTER NEVER DEPLOYED.
Cousin cut off the interview in the middle of a question. "I have to go."
rubberneck
11-05-2009, 18:27
A shrink that couldn't handle being called names.
My sincere thoughts are with the families and friends of all...how horrible. :(
Breaking news, shooter was Major Malik Nadal Hasan.
Probably from the religion of peace.
TR
Wonder how many ways there are to avoid that elephant in the room.
"Good Americans" don't do what this guy did.
And with an assist from Sigaba we know also know the President can not tell the difference between the Medal of Honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal.
Hey, to some the Medals are just twinkly things that hand around some peoples neck. All the same.
Warrior-Mentor
11-05-2009, 18:40
Apparently the religion of peace doesn't teach that:
"Sticks and stones may break my bones,
but names will never hurt me."
Guess they don't teach you that when you go through school to be come a shrink either.
______
The GOOD AMERICANS in this story are those killed, injured and serving in our United States Military.
US Patriot
11-05-2009, 18:41
Shooter's cousin is on FOX News now...
Saying shooter "is a good American..."
"His colleagues harassed him...that's why this happened."
Cousin's name is Nadar Hassan.
Said that shooter has always been a Muslim.
SHOOTER NEVER DEPLOYED.
Cousin cut off the interview in the middle of a question. "I have to go."
Yea just heard that... WTF... this guy was no way a "GOOD AMERICAN"
12 Killed, 30+ wounded by One guy?
They've released the two that were being held.
For any who missed it here is the Commander in Chief talking about the , ah, hmm, well, see for yourself.
Seriously?
This is freaking appalling.
AngelsSix
11-05-2009, 18:49
Jackasses, all of them..........that is all.:mad:
Stealthed
11-05-2009, 19:01
Can't believe this happened... :(:(
My most sincere condolences to the injured/killed soldier's and their families.
I hope the people responsible are PROPERLY dealt with... :mad::mad:
I just don't understand... THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN...
The GOOD AMERICANS in this story are those killed, injured and serving in our United States Military.
A tragedy. There is no other word...
May those responsible for ending the lives of Brave American Soldiers, begin their long journey rotting in the fires of hell...
Holly
Recall plot to attack Fort Dix by self-radicalized, homegrown cell of immigrants from Jordan and other Muslim countries.
Sad that the military is at war, targeted here at home, and America is at the food court.
I can't imagine Obama will have the stomach to announce more troops for A'stan anytime soon.
prayers out for the fallen and the families
US Patriot
11-05-2009, 19:08
Can't believe this happened... :(:(
My most sincere condolences to the injured/killed soldier's and their families.
I hope the people responsible are PROPERLY dealt with... :mad::mad:
I just don't understand... THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN...
He was dealt with.... He is dead.... This is not the first time a soldier has done something like this.... just look back to 1995 on Ft. Bragg.... http://edition.cnn.com/US/9510/sniper/am/index.html
Edit: sorry I got the year wrong
Stealthed
11-05-2009, 19:19
He was dealt with.... He is dead.... This is not the first time a soldier has done something like this.... just look back to 1995 on Ft. Bragg.... http://edition.cnn.com/US/9510/sniper/am/index.html
Edit: sorry I got the year wrong
I believe they have released 2 individuals who were believed to be involved but 1 person is still detained as a person of interest. Yes the Major who was the primary gunman shot and killed himself.
US Patriot
11-05-2009, 19:23
Saves a lot of money on trials...:D
He was dealt with.... He is dead.... This is not the first time a soldier has done something like this.... just look back to 1995 on Ft. Bragg.... http://edition.cnn.com/US/9510/sniper/am/index.html
Edit: sorry I got the year wrong
Thank you for your service sir.
But after reading your post, my question is, What??? That this is okay? Or that it is being blown out of the water by the media? Or that it does not matter because this is common???:rolleyes::confused:
Holly
I'm absolutely gutted for you guys......I wish all the injured a speedy recovery.
Stealthed
11-05-2009, 19:28
Excerpt from CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html
(CNN) -- A soldier opened fire on a military processing center at Fort Hood in Texas on Thursday, killing 12 people and wounding 30, officials at the Army base said.
The gunman also was killed, Col. Benton Danner said.
Two other soldiers who were detained have been released, but another person of interest is in custody, said Christopher Haug, chief of public affairs at Fort Hood.
The gunman, slain by emergency personnel, was identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, a law enforcement source told CNN.
:(:mad:
My thoughts and prayers go to our soldiers at Fort Hood and their loved ones.
...sadly a country always gets the government they deserve.
I always look forward to the laconic wit of Billy L-bach's posts. I agreed with him on this point too, until today, yes America is responsible for Obama, choosing flash over substance, but we don't deserve this wretch. It makes the bile rise to think American blood is flowing, and this clown CIC is doing an Arsenio Hall imitation before addressing the situation.
Once again my prayers are with our troops.
US Patriot
11-05-2009, 19:41
Thank you for your service sir.
But after reading your post, my question is, What??? That this is okay? Or that it is being blown out of the water by the media? Or that it does not matter because this is common???:rolleyes::confused:
Holly
No.. I don't think that is OK by no means..... My post was in response to the one quoted... I feel sickened by this whole situation..... I am sorry if there was any confusion.....
Snaquebite
11-05-2009, 19:47
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/politics/21534717/detail.html?treets=pit&tml=pit_natlbreak&ts=T&tmi=pit_natlbreak_1_07290111052009
Federal law enforcement officials say the suspected Fort Hood, Texas, shooter had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats.
The officials say the postings appeared to have been made by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who was killed during the shooting incident that left least 11 others dead and 31 wounded. The officials say they are still trying to confirm that he was the author. They say an official investigation was not opened.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case.
One of the Web postings that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades.
Surf n Turf
11-05-2009, 19:59
I don’t second guess anyone involved, but isn’t it just common sense that this guy was “just maybe, could be, gonna cause trouble”. Is it too PC to just question the man.
The religion of Peace my ass.
Sleep in peace my soldier lad’s, your battle's over
SnT
Federal law enforcement officials say the suspected Fort Hood, Texas, shooter had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats.
The officials say the postings appeared to have been made by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who was killed during the shooting incident that left least 11 others dead and 31 wounded. The officials say they are still trying to confirm that he was the author. They say an official investigation was not opened…
One of the Web postings that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades.
The $64,000 questions: What was he doing at Fort Hood among the population if he thought suicide bombers were heroes?
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/05/breaking-massacre-at-fort-hood/
The Reaper
11-05-2009, 20:02
It would appear that the Army he hated paid for his medical degree and specialty schooling as a Psych.
President Obama is a disgrace and our men and women in uniform deserve a better CINC, one who actually cares about them. I hope that the people who voted for him are proud of his actions.
TR
bandycpa
11-05-2009, 20:04
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts//
Noting the Arabic nature of the gunman’s name, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Washington interest group, condemned “this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law.”
”No political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence,” the council said in a statement. “The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured.”
Yeah, right.
Prayers out for our fallen warriors and their families.
Bandy
Snaquebite
11-05-2009, 20:06
It would appear that the Army he hated paid for his medical degree and specialty schooling as a Psych.
Wonder where the rest of the training came from...? No small feat to kill and wound that many folks with two pistols. That's a magazine change on each pistol and making almost every shot count.
What was he doing at Fort Hood among the population if he thought suicide bombers were heroes?To take SnT's question a step farther: What is a psychiatrist with ideations of suicide doing near anyone who might rely on his professional expertise?
It is my hope that those investigating this massacre take a close look at anyone the man may dealt with to see if he planted seeds for self destruction in their thoughts.
US Patriot
11-05-2009, 20:15
The F'ing f'er is still alive....
Snaquebite
11-05-2009, 20:16
The shooter is not dead according to the Ft Hood CG,.....briefing now
The shooter is not dead according to the Ft Hood CG,.....briefing now.
He lives! Odd.
A single shooter kills 12, wounds 30. He had the wrong MOS. :rolleyes:
Pat
RIP to those who died...never forgotten.
Wonder where the rest of the training came from...? No small feat to kill and wound that many folks with two pistols. That's a magazine change on each pistol and making almost every shot count.
That's what I'm wondering too. There must have been more resistance than just the LEO that took him down. Single shooter in an enclosed area with nothing but enemies. You have to have a lot of motivation to do something like this...generally more than a bad performance review.
To take SnT's question a step farther: What is a psychiatrist with ideations of suicide doing near anyone who might rely on his professional expertise?
It is my hope that those investigating this massacre take a close look at anyone the man may dealt with to see if he planted seeds for self destruction in their thoughts.
That's a scary thought Sig. Glad I'm shipping to Benning, there's a couple of people at my station who I think were slated for Hood. They might've had somewhere else as a first stop for basic though.
Snaquebite
11-05-2009, 20:27
Now the family will sue for leading them to believe he was dead....
The shooter is not dead according to the Ft Hood CG,.....briefing now
A shame - now we will have to deal with the leftist pap during the trial.
Oh, and from the Islamist apologists - "he had mental problems."
May be it's time to conect the dots between Islam and ..........
RIP to all the victims who have passed, the wounded and the families affected; this breaks my heart. As far as the POTUS, (if he deserves the title), sickens my guts! I will keep all other opinions about the way this is being and has been handled thus far to myself. :mad::(
The Reaper
11-05-2009, 20:31
The F'ing f'er is still alive....
That IS bad news.
I would let the victims' families decide what to do with him.
Personally, I vote for feeding him to the hogs.
TR
May be it's time to conect the dots between Islam and ..........
Move along.
There is nothing to see here.
Theses aren't the 'droids your looking for....
AP sources: Authorities had concerns about suspected Fort Hood shooter, reviewed Web postings
By LARA JAKES and PAM HESS , Associated Press
Last update: November 5, 2009 - 8:26 PM
WASHINGTON - The Army psychiatrist suspected of carrying a shooting rampage at Fort Hood, Texas, had come to the attention of authorities six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats, law enforcement officials said Thursday.
The postings appeared to have been made by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who was wounded during the shootings at the Army post that killed 12 soldiers and wounded at least 30 others. A Fort Hood spokesman had earlier said Hasan was killed.
The officials say they are still trying to confirm that Hasan was the author of the Internet postings. They say an official investigation was not opened.
One of the officials said late Thursday that federal search warrants were being drawn up to authorize the seizure of Hasan's computer. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case.
One of the Web postings that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades.
"To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its (sic) more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause," said the Internet posting. "Scholars have paralled (sic) this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers."
Military officials said Hasan, 39, had worked for six years at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, where he had received a poor performance evaluation. He transferred to Fort Hood in July.
The officials, who had access to Hasan's military record, spoke on condition of anonymity because such records are confidential.
Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, said Hasan was about to deploy overseas, but it was not known whether he was headed to Iraq or Afghanistan.
Retired Army Col. Terry Lee told Fox News that he worked with Hasan, who had hoped Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.
Hasan was single with no children. He was born in Virginia and graduated from Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. He did his internship, residency and a fellowship at Walter Reed.
http://www.startribune.com/nation/69322567.html?page=1&c=y
US Patriot
11-05-2009, 20:35
That IS bad news.
I would let the victims' families decide what to do with him.
Personally, I vote for feeding him to the hogs.
TR
Just pull his teeth first....:D
Wonder where the rest of the training came from...? No small feat to kill and wound that many folks with two pistols. That's a magazine change on each pistol and making almost every shot count.
That's what I'm wondering too. There must have been more resistance than just the LEO that took him down. Single shooter in an enclosed area with nothing but enemies. You have to have a lot of motivation to do something like this...generally more than a bad performance review.It may not have been his skill set as a soldier alone that made him so effective as a killer.
One can browse a magazine like The California Psychologist and find numerous examples in the disciplinary section of mental health professionals manipulating their patients into serving as active participants in self-destructive acts.
Chris Cram
11-05-2009, 20:44
A shame - now we will have to deal with the leftist pap during the trial.
Oh, and from the Islamist apologists - "he had mental problems."
May be it's time to conect the dots between Islam and ..........
Lethal Injection awaits... That seems to pleasant an end for this one.
According to his cousin, Nader Hasan, Malik Nadal Hasan (the jihadi shooter) is a "good American, has always been a muslim and was born and raised here" [The United States].
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=11337557&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/
FOX just reported he didn’t act alone…:confused:
longrange1947
11-05-2009, 20:59
Actually 9mm, crowded area, over penetration and you get a kill and several wounds with each shot. I would not attribute too much to his skill as the shock factor and the rounds ability to strike multiple subjects.
I vote we wrap him in pig skin, smeared in pig blood, and place him in the sun for the rest of his "natural life". :munchin
Warrior-Mentor
11-05-2009, 21:26
Clealy allah protected him so he could tell his story... WTF!?
The Reaper
11-05-2009, 21:32
Lethal Injection awaits... That seems to pleasant an end for this one.
Maybe.
10-15 years from now. After millions spent on appeals, trials, and his defense.
TR
BoyScout
11-05-2009, 21:40
Shooter's cousin is on FOX News now...
Saying shooter "is a good American..."
"His colleagues harassed him...that's why this happened."
Cousin's name is Nadar Hassan.
Said that shooter has always been a Muslim.
SHOOTER NEVER DEPLOYED.
Cousin cut off the interview in the middle of a question. "I have to go."
I'm praying for them to have strength as well as those those who are wounded, their families and the families of the fallen. I can honestly echo nearly every single sentiment said in this thread, I hope the Major gets what he deserves and rots in Hell. He hurt his own family as well and that pisses me off even more. Bury him with hogs and covered with their flesh, but does not even deserve that.
Rest In Peace and my condolences to the family and friend and a complete and speedy recovery for the wounded.
monsterhunter
11-05-2009, 21:47
How long will we have to endure this type of incident while as a nation being forced to explain it away? Name calling, PTSD for a crazy shrink, he was a "good American" who was driven to...or some other form of crap. It takes no effort to see what's going on here. It's a shame it can't take place in a conventional environment. If it would only be that all these freaks would gather together and declare their intent. Then we could fight face to face instead of taking it in the back and unarmed.
It's difficult to endure when you are honest and will hold yourself to the boundaries you are given, unlike the monster who knows no bounds and respects no one.
God bless the innocent and their families who did nothing to deserve this. There's got to be a special place in hell for this evil monster disguised as a soldier.
Six months ago Malik Nadal Hasan was quoted as saying "Muslims have the right to rise up against the US military"
The MSM are making excuses for him, saying he didn't want to go to war. None dare mention Jihad or that Al Qaeda directed Muslims to infiltrate the military for these very types of attacks.
American lives are being sacrificed at the alter of political correctness :mad:
Bill Harsey
11-05-2009, 22:19
I'm absolutely gutted for you guys......I wish all the injured a speedy recovery.
G, Thank you. That best describes my thoughts.
Prayers out for those lost, injured and the families of all.
doctom54
11-05-2009, 22:26
My prayers for the slain and injured and their families.
GratefulCitizen
11-05-2009, 22:34
Prayers and condolences.
dmgedgoods
11-05-2009, 22:35
#
kimberly
11-05-2009, 23:03
Recall plot to attack Fort Dix by self-radicalized, homegrown cell of immigrants from Jordan and other Muslim countries.
Sad that the military is at war, targeted here at home, and America is at the food court.
I can't imagine Obama will have the stomach to announce more troops for A'stan anytime soon.
prayers out for the fallen and the families
What is meant by this? Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly.
And I don't think Obama has been as affected by this action as we would all expect him to be. After all, he was at a very important conference this afternoon that took precedence over the shooting, and there were a lot of important people he had to thank and shout out to before addressing the issue of the Muslim who shot up one of our bases.
This is not PTSD. I would think the investigation will determine if PTSD played a role.
Source is here (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/who-gets-ptsd.shtml).Anyone can get PTSD at any age. This includes war veterans and survivors of physical and sexual assault, abuse, accidents, disasters, and many other serious events.
Not everyone with PTSD has been through a dangerous event. Some people get PTSD after a friend or family member experiences danger or is harmed. The sudden, unexpected death of a loved one can also cause PTSD.
Source is here (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/01/070104144711.htm).Social Workers May Indirectly Experience Post-traumatic Stress
ScienceDaily (Jan. 10, 2007) — In the wake of national disasters such as the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and Hurricane Katrina as well as traumas such as sexual assault, social workers are among the first to help victims heal.
But a first of its kind study by a researcher in the University of Georgia School of Social Work finds that repeatedly hearing the stories of trauma victims doubles the risk of social workers themselves experiencing post-traumatic stress disorder.
In a study published in the January issue of the journal Social Work, assistant professor Brian Bride finds that while 7.8 percent of the general population experience PTSD over a lifetime, 15 percent of the social workers surveyed met the diagnostic criteria for PTSD within the week prior to being surveyed.
“In addition to working with disaster victims, social workers hear from children who have been sexually abused, victims of incest, rape, and people who have experienced the horrors of combat and community violence,” Bride said. “Hearing these stories over and over can produce thoughts and images that can be traumatic.”
The phenomenon of being indirectly victimized by trauma, known as secondary traumatic stress disorder, has only recently gained the attention of researchers. It was first recognized a decade ago in spouses of war veterans and family members of holocaust survivors. Bride said his study is the first to examine the phenomenon in a broad sample of social workers.
He surveyed nearly 300 practicing social workers in fields such as mental health and substance abuse, health care, child welfare and school social work and found that:
40 percent thought about their work with traumatized clients without intending to
22 percent reported feeling detached from others
26 percent felt emotionally numb
28 percent had a sense of foreshortened future
27 percent reported irritability
28 percent reported concentration difficulties
PTSD is a disorder characterized by symptoms that include repeated and unwanted memories of the event, avoidance responses such as emotional numbness, and so-called arousal responses such as hypervigilance or difficulty concentrating. Bride’s study found that 55 percent of those surveyed met one diagnostic criteria, 20 percent met two criteria and 15 percent met the three criteria necessary for a diagnosis of PTSD.
Bride said that although rates of secondary traumatic stress are significant among social workers, awareness of the disorder among professionals is low.
“Social workers may hear about burnout and they may hear about self care,” Bride said. “But they’re not hearing about secondary post traumatic stress disorder.”
He recommends that colleges and universities educate social work students on how to minimize the risk of secondary traumatic stress. Bride also urges employers to provide continuing education on the subject and to offer appropriate workloads, support, time off and mental health insurance.
Bride said that social workers themselves can reduce the likelihood of secondary traumatic stress by finding time for themselves and activities they enjoy. He also recommends that social workers understand which cases are most distressing to them and to schedule those clients so they are not a disproportionate share of their workload.
People enter helping professions such as social work because they want to make a difference, Bride said, but he warns that secondary traumatic stress has the potential to reduce the quality of care social workers provide and may ultimately drive people from the profession.
“We suspect that people are leaving social work because of this,” he said.
And also <<LINK (http://mailer.fsu.edu/~cfigley/RSWP2003.pdf)>>.
Understanding why these acts were committed does not mean we have to justify them.
Sincere condolences to friends and family of those killed.
A speedy and complete recovery to those wounded.
H
Bill Harsey
11-05-2009, 23:15
And with an assist from Sigaba we know also know the President can not tell the difference between the Medal of Honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal.
Hey, to some the Medals are just twinkly things that hand around some peoples neck. All the same.
Pete,
I caught that. Of all the things The PRESIDENT of the United States of America should get right, this should be near the top of the list.
Has the teleprompter been farmed out to offshore tech support? :mad:
The fallen --> RIP and peace to your families.
The wounded --> Speedy recovery and strength to your families.
POTUS --> There is not a word in English to describe your actions today. I might need to learn Indo Bahasa.
Wolf Blitzer and his "alleged shooter" --> WTF??
Cousin of Hasan --> Maybe we can show you what "good Americans" do to delusional people like you?
Mr Hasan himself --> How does it feel to know a FEMALE INFIDEL took you down? The horror! The shame! Eternal loser, you'll get yours.
CNN showing video of shooter Hasan in traditional arabic robe this morning (6:30am) at local convenience store. Buying coffee, chatting, ho hum, what a great morning, I'm about to shoot 50 people in the name of Allah.
RIP to all the fallen.
Second this:
I vote we wrap him in pig skin, smeared in pig blood, and place him in the sun for the rest of his "natural life".
Of all the things The PRESIDENT of the United States of America should get right, this should be near the top of the list. FWIW, I agree. Especially if the president says (source is here (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-the-Medal-of-Freedom-ceremony)):There are many honors and privileges bestowed on the occupant of this house, but few mean as much to me as the chance to award America's highest civilian medal to the recipients that are here today. This is a chance for me -- and for the United States of America -- to say thank you to some of the finest citizens of this country, and of all countries.
The men and women we honor today have led very different lives and pursued very different careers. They're pioneers in science and medicine. They're gifted artists and indomitable athletes. They have made their mark in the courtroom, in the community, and in Congress. And what unites them is a belief -- that most -- forgive me to those of you who are not Americans -- but what we consider to be that most American of beliefs -- that our lives are what we make of them; that no barriers of race, gender, or physical infirmity can restrain the human spirit; and that the truest test of a person's life is what we do for one another.
The recipients of the Medal of Freedom did not set out to win this or any other award. They did not set out in pursuit of glory or fame or riches. Rather, they set out, guided by passion, committed to hard work, aided by persistence, often with few advantages but the gifts, grace, and good name God gave them.
So, let them stand as an example here in the United States -- and around the world -- of what we can achieve in our own lives. Let them stand as an example of the difference we can make in the lives of others. Let each of their stories stand as an example of a life well lived.
<<SNIP>>
Born just a generation past the Battle of the Little Big Horn, a grandson of a scout for General Custer himself, Dr. Joseph Medicine Crow was the first member of his tribe to attend college and earn a Master's. Before completing his PhD, he left to serve in World War II. Wearing war paint beneath his uniform, and a sacred feather beneath his helmet, Joseph Medicine Crow completed the four battlefield deeds that made him the last Crow war chief. Historian, educator, and patriot -- a good man, a bacheitche in Crow -- Dr. Medicine Crow's life reflects not only the warrior spirit of the Crow people, but America's highest ideals.
<<SNIP>>
Joseph Medicine Crow. (Applause.)
As a warrior and living legend, history flows through Dr. Joseph Medicine Crow -- High Bird. Born on a reservation and raised by traditional grandparents, he became the first member of his tribe to earn a Master's degree. For his valiant service in World War II, he was awarded the status of Crow War Chief, and his renowned studies of the first Americans and contributions to cultural and historical preservation have been critical to our understanding of America's history. Joe Medicine Crow is a symbol of strength and survival, and the United States honors him for his dedication to this country and to all Native Americans.Maybe the day will come when the president understands that words are more than what one reads off of a teleprompter. Maybe the day will come when he means what he says.
Bill Harsey
11-05-2009, 23:58
Our comments here do not diminish what Dr. Joseph Medicine Crow has done.
My shop has been blessed by an elder from the Crow Nation who also served honorably with the United States Army. Several members here know who this is.
I will not start a war with the Crow Nation.
According to his cousin, Nader Hasan, Malik Nadal Hasan (the jihadi shooter) is a "good American, has always been a muslim and was born and raised here" [The United States].
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=11337557&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/
One of the things the worthless mainstream media will not report on is the fact that Muslims following jihad lie. All the time. It is a part of their mindset; the Koran is an instruction manual for being a fifth column. Be peaceable when your enemies are powerful, infiltrate their weaknesses, attack in strength when you have the upper hand. Mohammed was a revolutionary; is this so surprising?
You will constantly hear about how someone is a "good Muslim". That is a RED FLAG. A good Muslim serves Allah, and does so by lying to, forcing into submission, and killing anyone who does not worship him.
So yes, I'm sure Maj. Hasan is a "good Muslim". I'm sure radical Islamists also are mourning the fact that he did not die. But for different reasons than that of those on this board.
Mr_PreScuba
11-06-2009, 00:27
Sincere condolences to friends and family of those killed.
A speedy and complete recovery to those wounded.
H
Concur... my thoughts... and feelings exactly...
frostfire
11-06-2009, 00:45
Condolence to the family and friends of lost ones. Speedy recovery to the wounded.
Requiem aeternam for those who lost their lives, may the pearly gates welcome you and grant you eternal peace.
Prayers sent.
PC aside, I worry for the repercussion/2nd and 3rd order impacts of this 1st degree murder. How many muslims are serving in the US military? Are there any muslims in SEALs, SF, CCT, Force Recon, or any SOCOM personnel with secret and top secret clearance? What then? :(
In a way, I can empathize with non-devout (bad) muslims who just want to live their life and raise their kids in this country. If and when they are picked on horrendously, they just may turn into devout (good) muslims and finally find reasons in joining their jihadis brethren.
Sincere condolences to friends and family of those killed.
A speedy and complete recovery to those wounded.
H
Ditto.
...
Additional news item that may be of interest!:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_hood_shooting
incarcerated
11-06-2009, 01:37
Local radio here is reporting that Hasan was shot by a female security officer, who herself was wounded. The only mention of her that I can find is here:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/06/12-killed-at-texas-army-base-army-psychiatrist-acc/
"....Initial information that a female civilian police officer who had shot Maj. Hasan was also killed similarly turned out not to be the case, Gen. Cone said. That officer also survived the attack, he said...."
This woman is a national hero.
Just heard little Andy Cooper on CNN say that this SOB wasn't happy about upcoming deployment. So it's okay for the military to pay for your education, etc... but when it's time to pay your dues and do your duty you go and kill others?? Christ... he wasn't signing up for a library card... it was the US Army. You are expected to serve. You know what you are getting into. Hell... go run away to Canada if you are that adverse to service. My gut says this was planned and had nothing what so ever to do with deployment. There is more to this story and the MSM is too afraid and politically correct to scratch the surface and tell the truth. What a surprise!!
incarcerated
11-06-2009, 02:04
Convenience store surveillance video taken the morning of the shooting shows Major Hasan wearing a man-dress:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOeXzamxSk8
(Sorry it's CNN; I can't stand Anderson Cooper, but they're the only place that seems to have this video right now.)
TheSiatonist
11-06-2009, 02:56
Saw this on the CBS evening news. Such a terrible tragedy.
RIP to those who were killed and a speedy recovery to the injured.
dirtyshirt
11-06-2009, 05:43
I vote for removing every follower of islam from the Armed services,at least while a wars in Islamic countries are ongoing. If I were President, I would send every muslim, or everyone claiming Islam as their religion to a muslim country,around their fellow,"peaceful" muslims. Then, I would put up a damn fence,and restrict entry-the "melting pot" is full-go somewhere else.
During WWII,Japaneese living in the U.S. were rounded up and "relocated" for the duration of the war,while Japaneese Americans served honorably in our forces-they were not of a religion of radicalism. Why can this not be done now,knowing this crap will just continue?
And PTSD is a conveniant excuse,and a catch-all.It used to be, in order to have "shell shock",or now,PTSD, you actually had to BE in combat. How can sitting in a air conditioned office eating 3 meals a day at the mess hall lead to PTSD?!?:confused:
How things change - in my time people merely shot themselves (the Med Hold Companies at Fort Sam Houston were full of self-inflicted wounds to avoid Vietnam when I was going through 300F-1) or fled to Canada/Sweden to avoid such deployments - a shame this guy lacked the fortitude to shoot only himself. :mad:
وذلك للأسف يذهب...:(
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Utah Bob
11-06-2009, 06:58
I vote for removing every follower of islam from the Armed services,at least while a wars in Islamic countries are ongoing. If I were President, I would send every muslim, or everyone claiming Islam as their religion to a muslim country,around their fellow,"peaceful" muslims. Then, I would put up a damn fence,and restrict entry-the "melting pot" is full-go somewhere else.
During WWII,Japaneese living in the U.S. were rounded up and "relocated" for the duration of the war,while Japaneese Americans served honorably in our forces-they were not of a religion of radicalism. Why can this not be done now,knowing this crap will just continue?
And PTSD is a conveniant excuse,and a catch-all.It used to be, in order to have "shell shock",or now,PTSD, you actually had to BE in combat. How can sitting in a air conditioned office eating 3 meals a day at the mess hall lead to PTSD?!?:confused:
You've got to be kidding. You want internment camps and mandatory deportation? :eek:
Yeah, that would solve everything.:rolleyes:
bandycpa
11-06-2009, 07:04
I vote for removing every follower of islam from the Armed services,at least while a wars in Islamic countries are ongoing.
You have a good point there. In 2003, a muslim U.S. soldier threw grenades into the tents of a military command center in Kuwait. Now the shooting at Ft Hood yesterday happens. IMVHO, the boundary lines here are clearly religious and not geographical. Muslims have been commanded to violently "defend" their faith and bring "peace" about through domination of others.
Wouldn't it make sense to remove the threat preemptively?
Bandy
There were early indicators..... In today's P/C world I can just imagine that people had concerns and didn't bring them up the CofC - or the CofC knew and were afraid to act.
And to think, we paid for his education..
v/r
phil
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FORT_HOOD_SHOOTING_SUSPECT?SITE=DCSAS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Nov 6, 7:33 AM EST
Troubling portrait emerges of Fort Hood suspect
By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -- His name appears on radical Internet postings. A fellow officer says he fought his deployment to Iraq and argued with soldiers who supported U.S. wars. He required counseling as a medical student because of problems with patients.
There are many unknowns about Nidal Malik Hasan, the man authorities say is responsible for the worst mass killing on a U.S. military base. Most of all, his motive. But details of his life and mindset, emerging from official sources and personal acquaintances, are troubling.
For six years before reporting for duty at Fort Hood, Texas, in July, the 39-year-old Army major worked at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center pursuing his career in psychiatry, as an intern, a resident and, last year, a fellow in disaster and preventive psychiatry. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001.
While an intern at Walter Reed, Hasan had some "difficulties" that required counseling and extra supervision, said Dr. Thomas Grieger, who was the training director at the time.
Grieger said privacy laws prevented him from going into details but noted that the problems had to do with Hasan's interactions with patients. He recalled Hasan as a "mostly very quiet" person who never spoke ill of the military or his country.
"He swore an oath of loyalty to the military," Grieger said. "I didn't hear anything contrary to those oaths."
But, more recently, federal agents grew suspicious.
At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.
They had not determined for certain whether Hasan is the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.
In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks and he wanted out of the Army.
"Some people can take it and some people cannot," she said. "He had listened to all of that and he wanted out of the military."
She said he had sought a discharge from the military for several years, and even offered to repay the cost of his medical training.
A spokesman for the Army, Lt. Col. George Wright, told the Post he could not confirm that Hasan had sought a discharge.
Noel Hasan said her nephew "did not make many friends" and would say "they military was his life."
A cousin, Nader Hasan, told The New York Times that after counseling soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with post-traumatic stress disorder, Hasan knew war firsthand.
"He was mortified by the idea of having to deploy," Nader Hasan said. "He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there."
Federal law-enforcement agents ordered an evacuation of the apartment complex where Hasan lived in Killeen, Texas, Thursday night and conducted a search of his home, said Hilary Shine, director of public information for the city. She didn't say what was found during the search.
Officials said earlier that federal search warrants were being drawn up to authorize the seizure of his computer.
Retired Army Col. Terry Lee, who said he worked with Hasan, told Fox News that Hasan had hoped President Barack Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.
Hasan attended prayers regularly when he lived outside Washington, often in his Army uniform, said Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md. He said Hasan was a lifelong Muslim.
"I got the impression that he was a committed soldier," Khan said. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife.
On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.
"I don't know why he listed Palestinian," Khan said, "He was not born in Palestine."
Nothing stood out about Hasan as radical or extremist, Khan said.
"We hardly ever got to discussing politics," Khan said. "Mostly we were discussing religious matters, nothing too controversial, nothing like an extremist."
Hasan earned his rank of major in April 2008, according to a July 2008 Army Times article.
He served eight years as an enlisted soldier. He also served in the ROTC as an undergraduate at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg. He received a bachelor's degree in biochemistry there in 1997.
---
Associated Press writers Lara Jakes, Pam Hess, Lolita C. Baldor and Brett Zongker in Washington and Alicia Chang in Los Angeles contributed to this report
I vote for removing every follower of islam from the Armed services,at least while a wars in Islamic countries are ongoing. If I were President, I would send every muslim, or everyone claiming Islam as their religion to a muslim country,around their fellow,"peaceful" muslims. Then, I would put up a damn fence,and restrict entry-the "melting pot" is full-go somewhere else.
During WWII,Japaneese living in the U.S. were rounded up and "relocated" for the duration of the war,while Japaneese Americans served honorably in our forces-they were not of a religion of radicalism. Why can this not be done now,knowing this crap will just continue?
And PTSD is a conveniant excuse,and a catch-all.It used to be, in order to have "shell shock",or now,PTSD, you actually had to BE in combat. How can sitting in a air conditioned office eating 3 meals a day at the mess hall lead to PTSD?!?:confused:
While I do tend to think that the Religion of Peace and American culture are a OIl and Water mix....You can't incarcerate people because of a religion or ethnic background, that is no different than Nazi Germany.
But based on the news reports, this person may have been investigated for suspect behavior....supposedly internet posts about suicide bombers and the like. That would be ample reason in my mind to send this guy packing.
I am betting if the powers to be knew a Caucasian Soldier visited a White Supremacist website's and praised killing other ethnic blends they'd be gone in a heartbeat........and there discussion would be of White Radicals in the Military, not PTSD.
The problem has more to do CAIR, ACLU, SPLC, Lawsuits and the warm fuzzy feeling some get from being PC.
There were early indicators..... In today's P/C world I can just imagine that people had concerns and didn't bring them up the CofC - or the CofC knew and were afraid to act. A
nd to think, we paid for his education..
v/r
phil
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FORT_HOOD_SHOOTING_SUSPECT?SITE=DCSAS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Nov 6, 7:33 AM EST
Troubling portrait emerges of Fort Hood suspect
By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE
Associated Press Writer
The left is going to paint this a$$-ho as a one-off psycho with PTSD and completely bury that notion that he is a Jihadist Terrorist.
What's worse,, his CoC is going to help them,, so they can cover-up their utter failure to boot his a$$ long ago..
And POTUS will TelePrompter the message to the World,, after giving the MOH to Oprah...
:mad::mad::mad::mad:
And now come the terrorist theories....
Eye witnesses are saying they heard the Major praise Allah before he fired rounds.
If someone heard this guy proclaim Bismilah.... it'll be the nail in the coffin.
On a side note, because we are at war with an Islamic country, wouldn't that make Muslims conscientious objectors and not able to serve anyway?
The left is going to paint this a$$-ho as a one-off psycho with PTSD and completely bury that notion that he is a Jihadist Terrorist.
What's worse,, his CoC is going to help them,, so they can cover-up their utter failure to boot his a$$ long ago..
And POTUS will TelePrompter the message to the World,, after giving the MOH to Oprah...
:mad::mad::mad::mad:
So sad and very true. We've all seen what the CofC really cares about, their careers.
Medals for everybody and then let's go home.
v/r
phil
Utah Bob
11-06-2009, 07:52
Looks like there were red flags popping up all over. The ball was dropped. Once a commissioned officer starts posting stuff like that on the internet, he should be toast.
On a side note, because we are at war with an Islamic country, wouldn't that make Muslims conscientious objectors and not able to serve anyway?One has to declare themselves conscientious objectors...it is not a status that is imposed.
I vote for removing every follower of islam from the Armed services,at least while a wars in Islamic countries are ongoing. If I were President, I would send every muslim, or everyone claiming Islam as their religion to a muslim country,around their fellow,"peaceful" muslims. Then, I would put up a damn fence,and restrict entry-the "melting pot" is full-go somewhere else.
During WWII,Japaneese living in the U.S. were rounded up and "relocated" for the duration of the war,while Japaneese Americans served honorably in our forces-they were not of a religion of radicalism. Why can this not be done now,knowing this crap will just continue?
And PTSD is a conveniant excuse,and a catch-all.It used to be, in order to have "shell shock",or now,PTSD, you actually had to BE in combat. How can sitting in a air conditioned office eating 3 meals a day at the mess hall lead to PTSD?!?:confused:
While I do tend to think that the Religion of Peace and American culture are a OIl and Water mix....You can't incarcerate people because of a religion or ethnic background, that is no different than Nazi Germany.
But based on the news reports, this person may have been investigated for suspect behavior....supposedly internet posts about suicide bombers and the like. That would be ample reason in my mind to send this guy packing.
I am betting if the powers to be knew a Caucasian Soldier visited a White Supremacist website's and praised killing other ethnic blends they'd be gone in a heartbeat........and there discussion would be of White Radicals in the Military, not PTSD.
The problem has more to do CAIR, ACLU, SPLC, Lawsuits and the warm fuzzy feeling some get from being PC.
bandycpa
11-06-2009, 08:13
While I do tend to think that the Religion of Peace and American culture are a OIl and Water mix....You can't incarcerate people because of a religion or ethnic background, that is no different than Nazi Germany.
But wouldn't it be prudent to at least remove them from service in the U.S. military? I'm not saying to put them in camps, but I am saying that removing them from service would take them away from the inner workings of our military, easier access to military training, and an opportunity to do things like what happened in Ft Hood yesterday and Kuwait in 2003.
Bandy
But wouldn't it be prudent to at least remove them from service in the U.S. military? I'm not saying to put them in camps, but I am saying that removing them from service would take them away from the inner workings of our military, easier access to military training, and an opportunity to do things like what happened in Ft Hood yesterday and Kuwait in 2003.
Bandy
If it were up to me, we'd handle it like Team America World Police.
From my personal experiences I have yet to have 'any' Muslim denounce the Jihadis.....NOT ONE! They just clam up, beat around the bush or tell me I just don't understand :rolleyes:
If I had my way we would seriously consider giving most of them a one way ticket back to where they originated from. But that isn't the correct thing to do.
The first step, if any of them civilian or whatever, show 'any' signs of sympathizing or promoting JiHad, not trial, no jury, you send them packing back to their preferred sandbox or Balkan State of choice. You need a public foot bath or a special prayer room? Go home for lunch, if that doesn't suffice here's your one way ticket to your home of mud where you can have it your way.
If it continues and the problem grows you don't allow them in the Military and you don't allow any Visa's.
My prejudiced rant/.02.
......On a side note, because we are at war with an Islamic country, wouldn't that make Muslims conscientious objectors and not able to serve anyway?
So when we were fighting Germany and Italy Christians could sit it out?
So if we fight a war in Africa Blacks in the Military could sit it out?
Loadsmasher
11-06-2009, 08:54
I want to see the OER or the reprimand that he received from Walter Reed. If his convictions lead him to shoot and kill fellow soldiers going against years of training as a Soldier and his oath as a physician, what kind of therapy was he administering? I'll restate that, if he was willing to physically harm Soldiers in a blindingly public display, what emotional and psychological harm was he willing to inflict behind closed doors?
Early reports show that he was disciplined for his interaction with patients and was an outspoken critic of the wars. How did that affect his treatment of Soldiers returning from those wars?
He spent 8 years enlisted, was an ROTC cadet and then accepted a commision. He has been described as a life long Muslim. How many Soldiers in that time has he poisoned with his hatred?
On a somewhat related note, if your unit sends you to a school that's a few months long on a different post and you get a new cell phone number, TELL YOUR F**KING SUPERVISOR. That is all.
I vote for removing every follower of islam from the Armed services,at least while a wars in Islamic countries are ongoing. If I were President, I would send every muslim, or everyone claiming Islam as their religion to a muslim country,around their fellow,"peaceful" muslims. Then, I would put up a damn fence,and restrict entry-the "melting pot" is full-go somewhere else.
During WWII,Japaneese living in the U.S. were rounded up and "relocated" for the duration of the war,while Japaneese Americans served honorably in our forces-they were not of a religion of radicalism. Why can this not be done now,knowing this crap will just continue?
And PTSD is a conveniant excuse,and a catch-all.It used to be, in order to have "shell shock",or now,PTSD, you actually had to BE in combat. How can sitting in a air conditioned office eating 3 meals a day at the mess hall lead to PTSD?!?:confused:
This is both unrealistic in our current society, and wrong in any case. What needs to happen is people need to become better informed about Islam. This is going to happen very slowly unless mainstream media outlets begin doing actual reporting on what the "religion of peace" really is.
There are plenty of Muslims in the USA who only want to be left alone to their own subculture, but this cannot be allowed. Look at Europe for an example of what could occur, what IS happening right now with the US. Our two best defenses are to heighten public awareness, and to make an attempt to integrate immigrants into OUR society, and not pander to theirs.
Unfortunately, as long as the MSM continues spouting garbage, this will be much harder than it needs to be.
So when we were fighting Germany and Italy Christians could sit it out?
So if we fight a war in Africa Blacks in the Military could sit it out?
Funny (not really) you mentioned that. When the 82d was ready to go to Zaire (77/78?) many of the black soldiers said they didn't want to go and kill their brothers. (if they had to)
rubberneck
11-06-2009, 09:03
Dirtyshirt there was a Quiet Professional from this board who gave his life in defense of his country and he just so happened to be a Muslim.
http://www.groups.sfahq.com/5th/taha_ayman_kia_5th.htm
longrange1947
11-06-2009, 09:25
I actually blame the alter of the politically correct for this incident. Commanders are scared to death to do anything for fear fo being called racist. the commnader acknowledged that he knew about the rantings fo the man but did nothing. The chain of command is too worried about the appearance of racial profiling or racism to properly protect the soldier.
We need to look at the threat, and react to the threat, not worry about the appearance of .......... :munchin
HowardCohodas
11-06-2009, 09:36
I am concerned.
This thread has degenerated into speculation, analysis of speculation and speculation on speculation.
We have all suffered a loss from this incident. We are letting our anger and other emotions interfere with what professionals prefer; facts, logic and analysis. The relevant facts can hardly all be available yet.
The mourning tradition in all cultures is similar and not accidental, but based on the psychological needs of the survivors. Expressions of sadness, emotional support for the survivors and a reminder of the good parts of life are usually appropriate.
.........We have all suffered a loss from this incident. We are letting our anger and other emotions interfere with what professionals prefer; facts, logic and analysis. The relevant facts can hardly all be available yet.........
You may speak for yourself and a few others but let me tell you my emotions are not very hot at all, in fact they are pretty cold right now.
The apologists are just getting cranked up - now that will heat me up a few dergrees.
MOO - but somebody needs to find a way to scripturally unhook the thinking that suicide is sinful from the train of theological reasoning so such psychos can feel free to do unto themsleves and leave others alone. :mad:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Red Flag 1
11-06-2009, 10:06
The left is going to paint this a$$-ho as a one-off psycho with PTSD and completely bury that notion that he is a Jihadist Terrorist.
What's worse,, his CoC is going to help them,, so they can cover-up their utter failure to boot his a$$ long ago..
And POTUS will TelePrompter the message to the World,, after giving the MOH to Oprah...:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Seems this "shrink" was insufficiently shrunk, I believe that is still part of the psych residency.
On a related subject, no virgins for this guy!
RF 1
"Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting "
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html
The events at Fort Hood and Obama's callous ineptitude, are visceral and gut wrenching. If anything it reinforces the lesson the world is a dangerous place and strong leaders are a priceless resource. I know folks were upset by these events, but America's greatness derives from being a nation of immigrants, every one of us except 100% Native Americans is or is descended from immigrants, we cannot let a murderer turn us against ourselves, nor should we let PC concerns smother obvious Red Flags. There is a lot of experience and wisdom on this board, the calm logic seems to beg the question are you an American first, if so it doesn't matter what name you call God. As folks here pointed out the valor and sacrifices of the most highly decorated unit in the history of the US military, the Nisei 442 Regimantal Combat Team, or the recent sacrifice of Staff Sgt. Ayman Taha demonstrate what constitutes a great American. The reality of the situation is we have to look to ourselves in these times since clearly there is no leadership coming from the executive branch of our government.
Bordercop
11-06-2009, 10:47
Link is here: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/a_more_likely_scenario.html
A More Likely Scenario
By Andie Brownlow
The shooting on Nov. 5th in Fort Hood may be indicative of similar attacks to come. The shooter carried out an attack on specifically outbound soldiers for deployment at the Soldier Readiness Center. Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan, was raised as a Muslim and opposed to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The fact that he chose to kill or maim over 40 US soldiers rather than go to war against Muslim jihadists is indicative of another motive. Explaining away this massacre as a conflict of conscience seems to be an oxymoron. Looking past the incident as a singular event you'll find a very different, possible reason for the attack.
According to a Nov. 4th Stratfor report, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) leader, Nasir al-Wahayshi, wrote an article last week in an online magazine, Sada al-Malahim (The Echo of the Battle). In it he called for jihadists to conduct easy attacks on targets in Egypt, Saudi Arabia Yemen as well as in Western Nations "at war with Islam". They were to use easily accessible weapons and explosives and to not "waste a lot of time finding the materials..." The way in which this information was disseminated is just as telling as the article itself. According to the global intelligence source, Stratfor:
That al-Wahayshi gave these instructions in an internet magazine distributed via jihadist chat rooms, not in some secret meeting with his operational staff, demonstrates that they are clearly intended to reach grassroots jihadists -- and are not intended as some guidance for AQAP members.
In another Stratfor report from June of 2006 called, "Al Qaeda: The Next Phase of Evolution" it was suggested that the rise of local, unaffiliated terror cells are becoming the most effective form of guerilla warfare. Al Qaeda is morphing into something similar to a "pre-9/11 Operation Model". It relies on grassroots elements that "think globally and act locally". Stratfor calls this the "4.0 Operation Model" in which it can:
...Entail more sophisticated levels of coordination -- and the possibility of simultaneous strikes against geographically diverse targets (for instance London, Toronto and New York). Previously, such a feat could only have been accomplished by the core al Qaeda organization. For a grassroots network to accomplish that feat, without direct involvement from the central leadership, would represent a generational leap forward in jihadist operations.
Terror cells aren't the only form of recent jihadist activity and roadside IEDs aren't the only form of explosives for these new attacks. In Nasir al-Wahayshi's article last week, he cited an incident a few weeks ago where an assassin wore a small IED in his anal cavity in an attack on Saudi Deputy Interior Minister Prince Mohammed bin Nayef. This was a new, unsuspected form of suicide bombing. It was unsuccessful in killing the target, only slightly injuring him; but this method proved to be effective against detection.
Also in the article, al-Wahayshi mentioned a specific amount of explosives that could be made from household items, suggesting similar IEDs could be improvised. Grassroots jihadists may also be interpreting attacks to be suicide bombings on individual targets as well as in geographical locations.
Whether Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan acted out of insanity or some bizarre moral dilemma, he conducted an attack on US soil of a terrorist nature. Americans need to become more vigilant since we are more vulnerable to attack from jihadists now than ever.
Terror cells will be even harder to prevent as new grassroots jihadists do not need to communicate directly with a central authority. They now get their information from websites and take cues to from leadership messages published on them. There will be less chatter to monitor because these groups will find each other locally and keep their operations small and low-key.
Now is the time for our current government to become pro-active in thwarting terrorist plots. Being reactionary just won't cut it anymore. The fact that the Obama Administration renamed the "War on Terror" to the "Overseas Contingency Plan" highlights just how off base they are on the threat our country now faces.
Our intelligence agencies also need to be allowed to do their job without fear of persecution. Nancy Pelosi's shameful display of classic CYA against the CIA doesn't give the FBI much incentive to help conduct domestic surveillance on these new groups.
My prediction on the matter is that the issue will be resolved only as "a US soldier carried out the Fort Hood attack" and let the assumptions about a violent soldier fall where they may. For this Administration and their cronies it's a lot more convenient than fulfilling one of the only stated responsibilities of our Federal Government.
The Reaper
11-06-2009, 10:52
Looks like there were red flags popping up all over. The ball was dropped. Once a commissioned officer starts posting stuff like that on the internet, he should be toast.
Political Correctness and CAIR prevent it.
You pay hundreds of thousands to educate this guy and give him a career, but you cannot kick him out without someone (ACLU, CAIR) suing you.
Perhaps some recall that recently, an award was made to the Muslims who were acting suspiciously on a flight and were later removed. They won the case against the airlines, and tried to sue the fellow passengers who reported their behavior. We have truly got our heads in the sands ignoring the terrorists walking among us, and using our laws against us.
TR
Bordercop
11-06-2009, 10:56
The link: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/medical_response_to_the_ft_hoo.html
Medical response to the Ft. Hood massacre
By John Dale Dunn, MD
Yesterday was beautiful warm blue, blue, make-you-happy, sky day in Texas. I was scheduled to work a shift at Carl R. Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, Texas, the busiest emergency department in the Army, at a base with always more than 50 thousand soldiers.
I have been a civilian contract emergency physician at Fort Hood since 2003. I teach Army Residents and students and mid level practitioners emergency medical practice, working alongside the main group of remarkable and able Army Physician Faculty, who do what I do, and are regularly deployed "down range" to support the Army mission in the field.
I was one of many physicians from the central Texas area who filled in during the hot war in Iraq, and I stayed on. I can't think of a better job than caring for and thanking thousands of soldiers and their families and teaching some of the finest specimens of American youth extant -- people who haven't forgotten the virtues and the concepts of duty, honor and country and make their parents and families proud. Somedays I am overcome by the good I see in these students and physicians in training. I am one lucky old doc.
Tragedy struck Fort Hood today, sudden, violent. I write of the best damn mass casualty drill that could be imagined, made so by extraordinary efforts in the face of a mountain of awful human carnage. Dozens of ambulances from everywhere, helicopters in the sky, soldiers and Army medics and paramedics working the scene with efficiency and competence and cooperation among area hospitals that allowed remarkable and effective evacuation, triage, use of resources and superlative resuscitation. I couldn't help but note and admire their performance -- and be happy they are my colleagues and friends in many cases.
I was very concerned after the first wave that we would be overwhelmed, but the regional ambulance and hospital physician help and dispersal of cases to surrounding hospitals made it possible for our hospital to achieve great success along with the successes of those other groups and facilities -- pitching in to care for more than 30 wounded. During the peak, easily more than 100 physicians, nurses, techs, aids, clerks housekeepers, security and so many soldiers and civilian workers worked feverishly at our hospital. They made a difference and saved lives.
Last night I left that emergency department so proud of what I saw, so damn proud of the US Army and the people who kept their cool, worked hard, and saved lives the way their fellow soldiers and their grateful families would hope. Not a slacker to be seen today, a massive effort to save our precious people. Leadership and intelligent decision making that kept the work distributed. It was just they way they like to outline a mass casualty drill in the book -- eye on the ball, manage resources, triage properly, focus on priorities for patient survival. It was good because there were so many there who were battlefield experienced and able. They were ready, they performed. So many great specialists came down to help. Nurses galore, one big patient care machine, humming along.
I know these people, and could name them, put them up for accolades and such, but they would do this if no one was watching -- the true measure of greatness and virtue. My wife Patty, who was at home worrying and didn't know what was happening, was like those other wonderful spouses of soldiers who sacrifice, and worry, silently when all hell breaks loose. We shall not forget them and we grieve with the families who have lost their precious treasure, how horrific.
I wish I could be more eloquent describing what I do, why I love these people so much or why when I left the Department tonight I just had to write this in tribute to their effort today. I can say that what I do is as close as I'll get to working with angels and heroes as a physician. Today was the kind of terrible day that makes us hope there are angels and heroes, and be pleasantly surprised to be touched by one. Not one cross word, today, nothing but tenderness and concern and peddle to the metal effort. Once in a while an announcement would be made to keep the noise down, there were so many people doing so many things at once.
So I had to write tonight about the angels and heroes. I teach one of the ethics lectures for the residents and remind them that they define themselves as virtuous and extraordinary when they volunteer to put on the uniform. I saw the great green-suiters and their support group working today. I had to tell you, so you could know that in some parts of America and in some segments of our people, there is such wonderful goodness. If you had been there you would have cried for joy and for how lucky we are as a people. I started this essay at 8:30 and its 10:00--Taps just sounded for Fort Hood. RIP, departed heroes and heroines. Thanks for your effort today-you, the living heroes and heroines.
John Dale Dunn MD JD is an emergency physician, resident of Brownwood, TX. His opinions are his own and not attributable to the US Army or Department of Defense.
21 Comments on "Medical response to the Ft. Hood massacre"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/06/2009-11-06_police_sgt_kimberly_munley_credited_with_ending _fort_hood_gunman_maj_nidal_malik.html
Warrior-Mentor
11-06-2009, 11:56
Who wants to bet that those killed or injured in this attack are awarded the PURPLE HEART?
I will put money that they are not.
Here's why.
The criteria:
The Purple Heart was established by General George Washington, at Newburgh, New York, on 7 August 1782, during the Revolutionary War. It was reestablished by the President of the United States per War Department General Orders 3, 1932 and is currently awarded pursuant to Executive Order 11016, 25 April 1962, Executive Order 12464, 23 February 1984 and Public Law 98-525, 19 October 1984.
a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force or any civilian national of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded
(1) In any action against an enemy of the United States.
(2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.
(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.
(4) As a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces.
(5) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.
(6) After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed Services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack.
(7) After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force.
I will argue they were in action against an enemy of the United States - he became that the minute he shot one of our Soldiers.
I will also argue that this was a terrorist attack - whether he was a "member" of al qaeda or not, he was following the orders of a fatwa issued by the last sitting caliph, which called for "individual jihad." (SEE ATTACHED)
Did those injured or killed earn the Purple Heart as established in the award criteria?
Absolutely.
Will they get the award?
Not a chance.
WHY?
Awarding the PURPLE HEART admits we have a bigger problem on our hands.
Now move along. Nothing to see here.
Bordercop
11-06-2009, 12:06
They deserve it, but they won't get it. Apologists for Islam won't let that happen. The MSM is still "looking for a motive" when the motive is as plain as day to me. Jihad.
The Reaper
11-06-2009, 12:15
Did they award the PH to those in the Pentagon on 9/11?
TR
MackallResident
11-06-2009, 12:39
AT THE DIRECTION OF THE SECRETARY OF THE ARMY, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WILL BE OBSERVED TODAY, 6 NOVEMBER 2009, AT 061934Z (1434 HRS LOCAL) AT ALL WORLDWIDE US MILITARY INSTALLATIONS AND ARMY VESSELS TO HONOR THE MEMORIES OF THE VICTIMS OF THE SHOOTING INCIDENT AT FORT HOOD, TX ON 5 NOVEMBER 2009.
SUBJECT: MOMENT OF SILENCE TO HONOR THE MEMORIES OF THE VICTIMS OF THE SHOOTING INCIDENT AT FORT HOOD
THIS ALARACT MESSAGE IS RELEASED ON BEHALF OF THE (SEC)RETARY OF THE ARMY
1. (U) THERE ARE MOMENTS THAT CAUSE GREAT PAUSE EVEN FOR THE STEADFAST. THE TRAGEDY OF THE SHOOTINGS AT FORT HOOD IS SUCH A MOMENT. OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS ARE WITH THE FAMILIES AND FRIENDS OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED AND WOUNDED. OUR WARRIOR ETHOS STATES THAT WE WILL NEVER LEAVE A FALLEN COMRADE. OUR ARMY IS STRONG. OUR CHARACTER IS PROVEN IN BATTLE AND RELIABLE IN ALL CONDITIONS, ESPECIALLY IN THE MOST DISAPPOINTING OF CIRCUMSTANCES. PROFESSIONALISM IS OUR WATCHWORD. COMPASSION IS THE UNIQUE MEASURE OF THE AMERICAN SOLDIER AND THE ARMY FAMILY.
2. (U) I CALL UPON OUR ARMY TO JOIN TOGETHER IN A MOMENT OF SILENCE, TO HONOR THE SERVICE OF THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES AND TO REFLECT ON THE MERITS OF OUR OWN SERVICE AND THE PRIVILEGE OF SERVING ONE ANOTHER AND THIS NATION. WE COMMEND OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS TO THE FAMILIES OF THOSE SUFFERING IN THE AFTERMATH OF THIS EVENT. WE WILL MAINTAIN OUR FOCUS ON CARING FOR EACH OTHER AND THE ARMY FAMILY AND EMERGE FROM THIS TRAGIC EVENT AS AN ARMY STRONG COMMUNITY. MAY GOD BLESS OUR ARMY AND MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA.
3. (U) AT THE DIRECTION OF THE (SEC)RETARY OF THE ARMY, A MOMENT OF SILENCE WILL BE OBSERVED TODAY, 6 NOVEMBER 2009, AT 061934Z (1334 HRS CENTRAL TIME) AT ALL WORLDWIDE US MILITARY INSTALLATIONS AND ARMY VESSELS TO HONOR THE MEMORIES OF THE VICTIMS OF THE SHOOTING INCIDENT AT FORT HOOD, TX ON 5 NOVEMBER 2009.
Cliffnotes:
SOA: Official Army moment of silence today @ 1334CST.
Warrior-Mentor
11-06-2009, 12:45
Did they award the PH to those in the Pentagon on 9/11?
TR
Yes.
bandycpa
11-06-2009, 12:48
Did they award the PH to those in the Pentagon on 9/11?
TR
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-27332531_ITM
Purple hearts for Pentagon casualties; Defense of Freedom Medal for civilians. (Security).(2001 terrorist attacks)(Brief Article)
VFW Magazine
| November 01, 2001 |
The Pentagon announced Sept. 27 that all U.S. military personnel killed or wounded in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks will receive the Purple Heart. Civilian Department of Defense workers killed or wounded will receive the newly created Defense of Freedom Medal.
Most of those eligible for the medals are casualties of the attack on the Pentagon, but some were killed or wounded at the World Trade Center in New York and in the hijacked airliner that crashed in Pennsylvania. Charles Abell, the Pentagon's assistant secretary for force management, said about 90 civilians are eligible for the new medal.
Yes. (Article originally from VFW magazine. I only posted the preview of it here).
Bandy
Coldsteel24
11-06-2009, 13:18
Political Correctness and CAIR prevent it.
You pay hundreds of thousands to educate this guy and give him a career, but you cannot kick him out without someone (ACLU, CAIR) suing you.
Perhaps some recall that recently, an award was made to the Muslims who were acting suspiciously on a flight and were later removed. They won the case against the airlines, and tried to sue the fellow passengers who reported their behavior. We have truly got our heads in the sands ignoring the terrorists walking among us, and using our laws against us.
TR
Sir,
You provoke a great deal of thought.
If I may step out of my lane and pose the question; would it be up to us as individuals to find a way to combat the threat?
TOMAHAWK9521
11-06-2009, 14:48
Sir,
You provoke a great deal of thought.
If I may step out of my lane and pose the question; would it be up to us as individuals to find a way to combat the threat?
Look at the folks who took down the would-be shoe-bomber. A passenger noticed him trying to light the fuse and called it out. If I recall, he was dog-piled and had the living sh*t beat out of him before he was restrained.
Utah Bob
11-06-2009, 14:57
Sir,
You provoke a great deal of thought.
If I may step out of my lane and pose the question; would it be up to us as individuals to find a way to combat the threat?
Yes.
#7 from Sir Robert Peel's Nine Principles of Policing - 1829
Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that ]the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence
Roguish Lawyer
11-06-2009, 15:31
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.munley/index.html
The Reaper
11-06-2009, 15:41
Yes.
Then these soldiers should get it as well.
Sir,
You provoke a great deal of thought.
If I may step out of my lane and pose the question; would it be up to us as individuals to find a way to combat the threat?
Yes. Get out and vote for the right people. Take your friends to register and to the polls. Report suspicious activity. Use your SA. Be a good citizen.
TR
Warrior-Mentor
11-06-2009, 15:50
COMMENT: What are we supposed to conclude when the shooter yelled "ALLAH AKBAR!" before he started shooting?
There's a reason some comments are highlighted in YELLOW.
Obama says don't jump to conclusions on shooting
Nov 6, 2009
BEN FELLER
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama said Friday the entire nation is grieving for those slain at Fort Hood, and he urged people not to jump to conclusions while law enforcement officers investigate the shootings.
Obama met Friday morning with FBI Director Robert Mueller and other federal leaders to get an update on what they've learned. Thirteen people were killed and 30 others injured in the shooting rampage at the Texas Army post on Thursday. The suspected shooter is an Army psychiatrist; his motive remains unclear.
"We don't know all the answers yet. And I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts," Obama said in a Rose Garden statement otherwise devoted to the economy.
"What we do know is that there are families, friends and an entire nation grieving right now for the valiant men and women who came under attack yesterday," the president said.
His aides, meanwhile, worked to make way for Obama to attend a still unscheduled memorial service for those slain at the nation's largest military post. The White House's top spokesman said Obama would attend that service and emphasized it would take place at the family's convenience, and that it will not be dictated by the president's schedule.
"When a service is scheduled, the president will attend," Robert Gibbs told reporters during his daily briefing.
Yet Obama is also scheduled to leave on a 10-day trip to Asia on Wednesday. Gibbs would not rule out delaying the trip so Obama could attend the service before setting off on the major international trip of the year.
Gibbs said the president's schedule remains in flux.
Obama ordered the flags at the White House and other federal buildings to be at half-staff until Veterans Day. He called it a modest tribute to those who were slain and to those who put their lives on the line in the armed services each day.
"We stand in awe of their sacrifice, and we pray for the safety of those who fight, and for the families of those who have fallen," he said.
The president promised that that his administration would update the nation as it learns more about what happened, and why, at Fort Hood.
The suspected shooter, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, was shot and remains hospitalized.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9BQ6FV80&show_article=1
Warrior-Mentor
11-06-2009, 15:51
Then these soldiers should get it [the PURPLE HEART]as well.
TR
I agree.
The Reaper
11-06-2009, 15:59
COMMENT: What are we supposed to conclude when the shooter yelled "ALLAH AKBAR!" before he started shooting?
There's a reason some comments are highlighted in YELLOW.
Obama says don't jump to conclusions on shooting
Nov 6, 2009
BEN FELLER
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama said Friday the entire nation is grieving for those slain at Fort Hood, and he urged people not to jump to conclusions while law enforcement officers investigate the shootings.
Obama met Friday morning with FBI Director Robert Mueller and other federal leaders to get an update on what they've learned. Thirteen people were killed and 30 others injured in the shooting rampage at the Texas Army post on Thursday. The suspected shooter is an Army psychiatrist; his motive remains unclear.
"We don't know all the answers yet. And I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts," Obama said in a Rose Garden statement otherwise devoted to the economy.
"What we do know is that there are families, friends and an entire nation grieving right now for the valiant men and women who came under attack yesterday," the president said.
His aides, meanwhile, worked to make way for Obama to attend a still unscheduled memorial service for those slain at the nation's largest military post. The White House's top spokesman said Obama would attend that service and emphasized it would take place at the family's convenience, and that it will not be dictated by the president's schedule.
"When a service is scheduled, the president will attend," Robert Gibbs told reporters during his daily briefing.
Yet Obama is also scheduled to leave on a 10-day trip to Asia on Wednesday. Gibbs would not rule out delaying the trip so Obama could attend the service before setting off on the major international trip of the year.
Gibbs said the president's schedule remains in flux.
Obama ordered the flags at the White House and other federal buildings to be at half-staff until Veterans Day. He called it a modest tribute to those who were slain and to those who put their lives on the line in the armed services each day.
"We stand in awe of their sacrifice, and we pray for the safety of those who fight, and for the families of those who have fallen," he said.
The president promised that that his administration would update the nation as it learns more about what happened, and why, at Fort Hood.
The suspected shooter, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, was shot and remains hospitalized.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9BQ6FV80&show_article=1
Funny, did he follow his own advice with his comments on Professor Gates, or did he immediately leap to a wrong conclusion without the facts and make a biased statement?
TR
kimberly
11-06-2009, 16:35
Funny, did he follow his own advice with his comments on Professor Gates, or did he immediately leap to a wrong conclusion without the facts and make a biased statement?
TR
Obama seems incapable of having steadfast beliefs and morals.
Remember he attended the Trinity United Church of Christ for 20 years under the leadership of Jeremiah Wright only to denounce the church and teachings AFTER the public was outraged during the presidential campaigns last year.
He jumped to conclusions with the Gates fiasco likely because the black community would expect him to. So many think of him as THEIR president and expect him to take their side. (No, I'm not racist. I was married to a black man and my daughter is half black.).
Mr. Hollywood went into office having absolutely no idea of what he was going to do for the next 4 years and proceeded to ask the public what he should do. Transparent? I think it's more that he needs to be lead. He's no leader.
And the list goes on, and on, and on... .
Now, he is asking the Americans to not jump to conclusions when a muslim shouts out 'Allahu Akbar' immediately prior to shooting a room full of our soldiers. Must be he is worried what the Muslim world will think of him if we were all to "jump to conclusions".
He makes me sick.
Fiercely Loyal
11-06-2009, 17:11
They weren't always.
Weapons used to be stored in the barracks in racks.
TR
Sir,
What are your opinions on being able to carry on post?
This incident to me reminds me of VA tech and other such places were shootings have occurred because of sitting duck syndrome.
Would you like the ability for soldiers to carry on post?
Do you think it would be right for a soldier to carry in uniform?
Our posts in Alaska have a more restrictive policy for active duty soldiers restricting them from any type of concealed carry even if they live off post.
As a national guard soldier this doesn't affect me but I believe a CCW permit holder could've possibly ended this faster than waiting on first responders.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the fallen and injured.
The Reaper
11-06-2009, 17:22
I think there should be a national carry, with very few limitations, and a Federal carry permit, much as retired LE has national priviliges, that would be good on installations as well.
These permits would require significant training on the legal issues of lethal force as well as a performance based demonstration of the applicant's capabilties to make judgements and engage threats in real time.
Is this going to happen with the Dims, or even the Repubs in office with our current mainstream media? No.
So you are left with a moral (and legal) dilemma.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
I haven't been able to manage the events at Ft Hood in my puny head. Can't even write it off as just another whacko. There's something deeper in the meaning of it that is beyond my reach right now. I'm too pissed, scared, confused, and shocked. There's nothing else left.
God, please grant to the souls of the victims repose and solace, and grant Your comfort to the friends and relatives of our fallen brothers and sisters.
I think there should be a national carry, with very few limitations, and a Federal carry permit, much as retired LE has national priviliges, that would be good on installations as well.
These permits would require significant training on the legal issues of lethal force as well as a performance based demonstration of the applicant's capabilties to make judgements and engage threats in real time.
Is this going to happen with the Dims, or even the Repubs in office with our current mainstream media? No.
Concur.
rubberneck
11-06-2009, 18:16
Funny, did he follow his own advice with his comments on Professor Gates, or did he immediately leap to a wrong conclusion without the facts and make a biased statement?
TR
Do as I say, not as I do?
Funny, did he follow his own advice with his comments on Professor Gates, or did he immediately leap to a wrong conclusion without the facts and make a biased statement?Do as I say, not as I do?Maybe the president is actually learning from his mistakes.
armymom1228
11-06-2009, 18:51
My apologies for not posting sooner. I have been moving from up north home to Florida.
My heart, my prayers, my love go to the fallen, the wounded, the families that will sit beside a bed waiting for a loved one to recuperate. Those families that will bury a loved one. As the mom of a soldier, my heart breaks for the mothers of the victims.
I have quit listening to the drivel that spews from the POTUS's mouth for sometime now. I Have better things to do with my time than get my blood pressure up, or debate his latest inane remark. I respect the office, but not the current chairholder.
I pray that the shooter shall live. That he spends a very long time in Leavenworth. I don't really care what he said...it could have been 'spongepants bob is a fag" for all I care. He doesn't deserve a breath of my time. Cowards like him make my stomach turn.
I have never met a shrink that was not a few fries short a happy meal. This one apparently, is no different.
I have, at the moment access to a very nice airboat. I would be delighted to take this shooter on a very nice boat ride into the Glades. I would come back alone.
If the gators and snakes did not get him, then the sawgrass should do that trick. If that does not work, I can garuntee that a few of my Miccosukee freinds will do the deed and save the US from the costs of prosecution. :D
AM
Prayers out to the families of the fallen, and for a slow death to the person who committed this heinous act. Hopefully his awaiting virgins are large men named bubba.
President Obama is a disgrace and our men and women in uniform deserve a better CINC, one who actually cares about them. I hope that the people who voted for him are proud of his actions.TR
TR Sir,
Very well said, IMHO!
Holly:mad:
incarcerated
11-06-2009, 22:36
She was, perhaps, the last person Hasan shot.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/11/officer_who_shot_hasan_identif.asp
Officer Who Shot Hasan Identified, In Stable Condition
Her name is Kimberly Munley:
Army officials say the suspect, "the lone shooter" for this tragic incident, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, is currently on a ventilator at a nearby civilian hospital and the police officer who gunned him down, Kimberly Munley, a civilian Fort Hood police officer, is in stable condition.
She's a civilian officer:
Munley, who had been trained in active-response tactics, rushed into the building and confronted the shooter as he was turning a corner, Cone said.
"It was an amazing and an aggressive performance by this police officer," Cone said.
Munley was only a few feet from crazed Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan when she opened fire.
Wounded in the exchange of gunfire, Munley was reported in stable condition at a local hospital...
Cone said Munley's aggressive response training taught her that "if you act aggressively to take out a shooter you will have less fatalities."
"She walked up and engaged him," he said. He praised her as "one of our most impressive young police officers."
She's apparently conscious, and spent the night calling fellow officers to let them know her condition, and checking up on the other wounded.
All of the other wounded are in stable condition, which is far better news than I expected, with so many wounded.
Posted by Mary Katharine Ham on November 6, 2009 10:02 AM
armymom1228
11-07-2009, 07:48
I wanted to put this in its own thread, but perhaps this will get more widelly read.
THIS, THIS IS WHY we have the greatest army on the planet. This selfless act, by a soldier is WHY I am so proud my own child is a soldier. I know that he and his brethern will be as safe as they can be and .... well...just read this article this morning.. our guys (&girls) are simply put, THE BEST.
FORT HOOD — Unlike many, maybe even most of the soldiers on this enormous military post, privates first class Marquest Smith and Jeffrey Pearsall had never seen combat before Thursday.
But the pair of 21-year-olds emerged from the tragic shootings of 43 soldiers and civilians here as bonafide combat heros.
Smith, of Fort Worth, possibly saved the lives of five soldiers and a civilian Fort Hood employee while repeatedly running back into the building where 39-year-old Army psychologist Maj. NidalMalik Hasan began a shooting spree that resulted in the deaths of 13 people.
Pearsall, of Houston, turned his five-year-old Ford F150 pickup into a makeshift ambulance and hauled five or six wounded soldier to the hospital, at least one of whom, he was told later by medical staff at Darnall Army Medical Center on the post, likely would not have survived had Pearsall not gotten him to the hospital so quickly.
"There's not just one or two heros in this, there's a whole bunch of heros," Pearsall said, referring to soldiers and civilian Department of the Army police officers who responded to the shootings and their bloody aftermath. Caring for wounded soldier amid chaos "is a job we're trained to do on the battlefield, and now it's a job, obviously we have to do here in the United States too."
Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey told reporters at a news conference here Friday afternoon that after visiting with Fort Hood's leaders, crime scene investigators and some of those who at the scene on Thursday, that the shootings were a "kick in the gut, not just for the Fort Hood community, but for the entire Army."
But Casey went on to tell how he'd heard stories of Army medics attending an on-post college graduation in the building next to where the shootings occurred "running to the sound of guns," of soldiers carrying the wounded to cover while Hasan was still on his rampage, and "of soldiers who were wounded while caring for other soldiers."
Neither Smith nor Pearsall were hurt in the shootings, at least not physically. But Smith narrowily avoided being shot several times.
When the first shots were fired inside the post's Soldier Readiness Center — a former sports-themed restaurant and bar converted into a paperwork processing center for soldiers leaving for or returning from war — Smith was sitting in a cubicle with a civilian employee going through his paperwork.
"We heard popping but we didn't know what it was so we just kept talking about my paperwork," said Smith. "Then we heard people running and somebody yelled 'gun!' "
Smith quickly closed the cubicle's sliding door and then hid with a civilian employee, a woman, under her desk. After hiding for a couple of minutes, a stray bullet penetrated the cubicle wall and went through the chair Smith had drawn up close to the desk for protection. The bullet apparently deflected downward, toward Smith's feet, where it lodged in the heel of his right boot. The civilian employee survived untouched.
When he let up for minute, Smith made a dash for a side door. "There were a couple of soldiers near the door, one was a major, and I pulled them outside," Smith said, "I don't know if they were wounded or not."
Then he went back inside, found two wounded soldiers and pulled them outside before going back in once again. But upon his second return into the building Smith, a tall, lanky former basketball player at Sam Houston High in Arlington, Texas, discovered that the shooter was less than 10 feet away. He turned and ran back toward the door.
"I just saw his back, but began running away," he said. "That's when I could hear and feel the bullets going past my head on either side and hitting the wall."
Once outside, Smith wasn't done. Pearsall, who Smith called his "battle buddy" had been waiting in his pickup for Smith to complete his paperwork, when he heard the shooting.
"I didn't know what it was at first, but then I saw people running out of the building, covered in blood. I told them to get in my truck," Pearsall said. "I got out and helped several more get in. They were pretty messed up. Blood was everywhere. A couple of medics then got in too. I probablly had five or six people back there, including the medics. Then right before I took off, PFC Smith jumped in."
But not for long. After about a mile, as the truck was nearing the on-post hospital, "PFC Smith realized we'd left one of our guys back there, so when I slowed down a little he jumped out and ran nearly a mile back there," Pearsall said.
Smith found the wounded soldier he was searching for trying, without much success, to drive himself to the hospital in his own car. "I stopped him and threw him in the back seat and drove him to the hospital," he said.
But while both young soldiers escaped with nothing more than a small bullet hole in one boot heel, both say have been shaken badly.
"I didn't get any sleep last night," a visibly tired and upset Smith said. "My experience was terrifying. I never thought this could happpen at Fort Hood. I'm very distraught right now, and angry."
"I'm angry because I feel betrayed. He (Hasan) was one of our own and did this to our own family."
"We're soldiers' first and we did our jobs even though this happened to my family I'm going to do my job," he said.
Pearsall said the only good to come from the tragic event was witnissing his fellow soldiers rallying to the aid of the wounded. "It shows me that when I do go into combat everybody knows what to do."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-11-06-heroes_N.htm?csp=34
I think there should be a national carry, with very few limitations, and a Federal carry permit, much as retired LE has national priviliges, that would be good on installations as well.
These permits would require significant training on the legal issues of lethal force as well as a performance based demonstration of the applicant's capabilties to make judgements and engage threats in real time.
Is this going to happen with the Dims, or even the Repubs in office with our current mainstream media? No.
So you are left with a moral (and legal) dilemma.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
Many of us at the Friday morning safety brief were talking about just this. I think (others agreed) there should be a military certification that can be attended (dependent on your NCOER) for E-5 and above for concealed carry on military installations. A lot of us have CCW's, but that legally does us no good on post, where we are the majority of our time.
my .02
kimberly
11-07-2009, 08:46
Maybe the president is actually learning from his mistakes.
Ahem, not according to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hiw8iXdMM
This is the initial response of the POTUS after the attack.
Thanking those who organized some conference and acknowledging his buddies seemed his more important agenda.
He's learned nothing from prior mistakes.
Aside from that:
It's extremely difficult to look at this shooting as PTSD as it is claimed since he made an effort to thank people for being his friends and emptied his apartment immediately prior to shooting 43 people. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07suspect.html?_r=1
New Details:
Pfc. Marquest Smith, who is heading to Afghanistan in January, was filling out medical paperwork about his bee-sting allergy when he heard a loud popping noise.
Moans followed, then the sudden, urgent shout of "Gun!"
Smith poked his head over the cubicle's partition and saw an extraordinary sight: An Army officer with two guns, firing into the crowded room.
The 21-year-old Fort Worth native quickly grabbed the civilian worker who'd been helping with his paperwork and forced her under the desk. He lay low for several minutes, waiting for the shooter to run out of ammunition and wishing he, too, had a gun.
After the shooter stopped to reload, Smith made a run for it. Pushing two other soldiers in front of him, he made it out of the Soldier Readiness Processing center — only to plunge into the building twice more to help the wounded.
Smith had survived the worst mass shooting on an American military base: a rampage of more than 100 shots that left 13 dead and more than two dozen wounded, including the alleged shooter, Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.
The suspected gunman's Palestinian uncle told Fox News that the family was "shocked" by the allegations and had no indication Hasan was capable of such violence.
"He was very quiet, very nice, never been upset, always a smile," Rafiq Ismail told Fox News' Reena Ninan in an interview in Ramallah, the West Bank. "Til now, we did not believe he did it. It's not him. ... Something happened, made him snap or something."
Ismail said Hasan's parents died several years ago and he had been "coping" with the loss since. He said his nephew was against the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, but was dismayed by the anti-Muslim backlash.
"He was saying they were killers, what they did in 9/11. He did not approve of it," Ismail said. "But I tell you he did not like the reaction ... collective punishment for the background Arabic or Islam."
The massacre could have been much worse, but for the heroics of Smith and others — like the 19-year-old private who ignored her own wounds, and the diminutive civilian police officer whose gunfire helped take down Hasan.
"Unfortunately over the past eight years, our Army has been no stranger to tragedy," said a somber Gen. George Casey, Army chief of staff. "But we are an Army that draws strength from adversity. And hearing the stories of courage and heroism that I heard today makes me proud to be the leader of this great Army."
___
Home of the 1st Cavalry and 1st Army Division West, Fort Hood has seen more than its share of deployments and casualties in the past eight years.
As a psychiatrist, Hasan, 39, had listened to soldiers' tales of horror. Now, the American-born Muslim was facing imminent deployment to Afghanistan. In recent days, Hasan had been saying goodbye to friends. He had given away many of his possessions, including copies of the Holy Koran.
At 2:37 a.m. Thursday and again around 5, Hasan called neighbor Willie Bell. Bell could normally hear Hasan's morning prayers through the thin apartment walls, but Hasan skipped the ritual Thursday.
Bell didn't pick up either time, but Hasan left a message.
"Nice knowing you, old friend," Hasan said. "I'm going to miss you."
About an hour later, surveillance cameras at a 7-Eleven across from the base captured images of a smiling Hasan, dressed in a long white garment and white kufi prayer cap, buying his usual breakfast — coffee and a hash brown.
At the processing center on the southern edge of the 100,000-acre base, soldiers returning from overseas mingled with colleagues filling out forms and undergoing medical tests in preparation for deployment.
Around 1:30 p.m., witnesses say a man later identified as Hasan jumped up on a desk and shouted the words "Allahu Akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great!" He was armed with two pistols, one a semiautomatic capable of firing up to 20 rounds without reloading.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572859,00.html
incarcerated
11-07-2009, 12:17
A little more on Sgt Munley:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1107/p02s03-usmi.html
Kimberly Munley ended Fort Hood rampage using Virginia Tech lessons
Kimberly Munley, the police officer identified as bringing an end to Fort Hood rampage Thursday, applied protocols established in the aftermath of the 2007 Virginia Tech shootings.
By Patrik Jonsson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the November 7, 2009 edition
Fort Hood, Texas - Lessons learned from the horrific Virginia Tech shootings in 2007 are credited with averting an even bigger massacre at Fort Hood, Texas, Thursday afternoon when police officer Kimberly Munley confronted the gunman without waiting for backup and took him down with four shots.
Reviews in the aftermath of the shootings at Virginia Tech, where 32 died, found that first responders' decision to be careful and wait for backup probably cost lives as that gunman moved unchecked from classroom to classroom as law enforcement massed outside.
Those findings had found their way to Fort Hood's Special Reaction Team, which had practiced an entirely new protocol for at least a year before Thursday afternoon's rampage here, in which 13 were killed and at least 28 wounded.
"The lesson from Virginia Tech was, don't wait for backup but move to the target and eliminate the shooter," says Chuck Medley, chief of Fort Hood's emergency services. "It requires courage and it requires skill."
The task on Thursday fell to the petite Ms. Munley, a civilian police officer employed by the Army at Fort Hood. Munley had taken part in intensive active-shooter training during the past year.
One of the first responders, she exited her car and entered the building as shots rang out. She rounded a corner, identified the shooter, and fired four times. He returned fire and hit her at least twice in the legs and once in the arm. She underwent surgery Friday but is said to be in good condition. It's unclear how many other responders were present and firing, but Munley's shots are believed to be the ones that stopped the alleged gunman, Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.
"She walked up and engaged him," said Fort Hood commander Lt. Gen. Bob Cone, according to an Associated Press report. Her training taught her that "if you act aggressively to take out a shooter, you will have less fatalities," he said.
Munley is in stable condition and "very upbeat," says Medley. "I've never seen a person with that kind of injury so upbeat, in fact."
"It was an amazing and aggressive performance by this police officer," said Cone.
Munley, who comes from North Carolina and worked as a police officer there, is known to be a tough cop. She often patrolled her neighborhood and once stopped burglars at her house, according to CNN.
Munley, who has a 3-year-old daughter, is married to Staff Sgt. Matthew Munley, who has done two tours in Iraq and was recently transferred to Fort Bragg, N.C., according to news reports. On what appears to be her Twitter page (the user is one Kim Munley from Killeen, Texas), the biography reads: "I live a good life ... a hard one, but I go to sleep peacefully at night knowing that I may have made a difference in someone's life."
Army officials at the Pentagon Friday held a video teleconference with officials at Virginia Tech to get advice on how to deal with the aftermath of a massacre.
At the base, a moment of silence was observed Friday afternoon, and many people's thoughts were on the fallen and injured in a place that soldiers said is their "home" away from war. Many hailed Munley's role in saving "countless lives" by stopping a shooter who, according to one soldier, "was picking people off like fish in a barrel" inside the building.
"She's an exceptional individual," Medley says. "Fort Hood is fortunate to have an officer of that caliber."
kimberly
11-07-2009, 12:28
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33748706/ns/politics-white_house/
"WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama, seeking to reassure a nation shaken by the mass shooting on an Army post in Texas, said Saturday that the training designed to keep U.S. forces safe abroad prevented further deaths and ended a rampage at Fort Hood.
Praising what he called the heroism that ended gunfire on the nation's largest army post, the president described the exchange that left 13 dead and 30 others wounded on Thursday a tragedy.
In his weekly radio and Internet address on the weekend before Veterans Day, Obama praised those who serve or have served in uniform and reminded the public of their diversity — a move designed to calm tensions around the suspected shooter, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.
"They are Americans of every race, faith and station. They are Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus and nonbelievers," Obama said. "They are descendants of immigrants and immigrants themselves. They reflect the diversity that makes this America. But what they share is a patriotism like no other."
Calls for patience
Obama called for patience while officials piece together what happened.
"We cannot fully know what leads a man to do such a thing," Obama said. "But what we do know is that our thoughts are with every one of the men and women who were injured at Fort Hood. Our thoughts are with all the families who've lost a loved one in this national tragedy."
But Obama said while "we saw the worst of human nature on full display, we also saw the best of America."
"We saw soldiers and civilians alike rushing to aid fallen comrades, tearing off bullet-riddled clothes to treat the injured, using blouses as tourniquets, taking down the shooter even as they bore wounds themselves," Obama said.
"We saw soldiers bringing to bear on our own soil the skills they had been trained to use abroad — skills that been honed through years of determined effort for one purpose and one purpose only: to protect and defend the United States of America."
President will attend memorial service
Obama's aides, meanwhile, worked to make way for Obama to attend a still unscheduled memorial service. The White House's top spokesman said Obama would attend that service and emphasized it would take place at the family's convenience and that it will not be dictated by the president's schedule.
"When a service is scheduled, the president will attend," Robert Gibbs told reporters during his daily briefing.
Later Saturday, Obama planned to make remarks to reporters in the Rose Garden before departing to the presidential retreat at Camp David for a night away from Washington. He planned to leave Wednesday for a 10-day trip to Asia."
Real nice of him to find the time.
It's obvious he doesn't see an act of terrorism as an act of terrorism when it comes to muslims shouting Allahu Akbar before shooting 43 people. Given the fact the man (and I use that term loosely) gave away all his belongings immediaely prior to the shooting, you'd think Obama would see it as something more than a nice guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt.
incarcerated
11-07-2009, 12:58
Some particulars from a WSJ article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125750297355533413.html
....The shooting rampage began shortly after 1:20 p.m. Thursday, as scores of soldiers from the 36th engineer brigade, which has the motto "Stay Rugged," waited for medical exams at the Soldier Readiness Processing Center, a gymnasium-sized building at Fort Hood where troops are prepped for deployment. The process is long and as the soldiers milled about, they texted friends, called parents, watched ESPN.
Then, chaos.
Authorities say several witnesses heard Maj. Hasan open fire with two weapons, neither of them Army-issued. One person with knowledge of the weapons said one was a revolver, the other a FN Herstal "Five-seveN"tactical pistol, which one firearms Web site describes as capable of defeating "most body armor in military service around the world today."
The FN carries 20 rounds per magazine. One witness said he saw Maj. Hasan reload at least once. A medic who treated the major's injuries said his camouflage cargo pant pockets were full of magazines.
The shots came so rapidly that Pvt. First Class Marquest Smith, who was going over some paperwork in a cubicle in the building, says he first thought he was hearing microwave popcorn.
Someone shouted: "Gun!"
Pvt. Smith dived under a desk. He says he waited several long minutes, listening to the terror unfold, until he thought he should make a dash for safety.
As he broke for the door, he saw Maj. Hasan in combat fatigues, moving around the room. His handgun was pointed downward, he said, as though he were methodically shooting the soldiers who had fallen or were crouching, seeking cover.
A bullet hit Pvt. Smith's boot as he fled, sticking in the sole. His mom called, too, on Thursday, and he told her he was fine.
The first 911 calls to the police station on base came in at 1:23 p.m. Officers across the sprawling base sprang into action.
Kimberly Munley, a 35-year-old police officer, happened to be nearby, waiting for her squad car to get a tune-up, when she heard the commotion. She raced to the scene, according to her boss, Chuck Medley, director of emergency services on base.
As she rounded a corner, she saw Maj. Hasan chasing a wounded soldier through an open courtyard. He looked as though he was trying to "finish off" the wounded soldier, Mr. Medley said.
"He looked extremely focused," said Francisco De La Serna, a 23-year-old medic who had fled the building and was watching the same scene unfold from a hiding spot across the street.
Ms. Munley's first shot missed Maj. Hasan. He spun to face her and began charging, Mr. Medley said.
The time was 1:27 p.m., just four minutes after the initial 911 call.
Authorities haven't said precisely how many shots were fired during the running gun battle between Maj. Hasan and Ms. Munley. But one of her shots hit Mr. Hasan in the torso, knocking him to the ground. With that, officials say, she quite likely prevented more injuries or deaths on the base.
Ms. Munley took two bullets to her legs. Both entered her left thigh, ripped through the flesh and lodged in her right thigh. She also received a minor wound to the right wrist.
Specialist De La Serna, the medic hiding across the street, sprinted to the scene as the shooting stopped and put a tourniquet on Ms. Munley, who was fading in and out of consciousness, he said. Then he moved to Maj. Hasan, who had a gunshot wound through the chest. Mr. De La Serna described the wounded major as calm and quiet, conscious but weak, a handgun at his side.
Ms. Munley underwent surgery Thursday night to halt bleeding and faces at least two more operations to remove the bullets in her thigh. Authorities said her husband, a soldier stationed at Fort Bragg, was on his way. Her Twitter account filled with messages of thanks and admiration from strangers world-wide.
As soon as the shooting stopped, soldiers in the processing center shifted into combat mode, ripping apart their uniforms to use as tourniquets. The wounded flooded the emergency room on base, where nurses and doctors struggled to cope with the injuries....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33748706/ns/politics-white_house/
"WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama, seeking to reassure a nation shaken by the mass shooting on an Army post in Texas, said Saturday that the training designed to keep U.S. forces safe abroad prevented further deaths and ended a rampage at Fort Hood.
Praising what he called the heroism that ended gunfire on the nation's largest army post, the president described the exchange that left 13 dead and 30 others wounded on Thursday a tragedy.
In his weekly radio and Internet address on the weekend before Veterans Day, Obama praised those who serve or have served in uniform and reminded the public of their diversity — a move designed to calm tensions around the suspected shooter, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.
"They are Americans of every race, faith and station. They are Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus and nonbelievers," Obama said. "They are descendants of immigrants and immigrants themselves. They reflect the diversity that makes this America. But what they share is a patriotism like no other."
Calls for patience
Obama called for patience while officials piece together what happened.
"We cannot fully know what leads a man to do such a thing," Obama said. "But what we do know is that our thoughts are with every one of the men and women who were injured at Fort Hood. Our thoughts are with all the families who've lost a loved one in this national tragedy."
But Obama said while "we saw the worst of human nature on full display, we also saw the best of America."
"We saw soldiers and civilians alike rushing to aid fallen comrades, tearing off bullet-riddled clothes to treat the injured, using blouses as tourniquets, taking down the shooter even as they bore wounds themselves," Obama said.
"We saw soldiers bringing to bear on our own soil the skills they had been trained to use abroad — skills that been honed through years of determined effort for one purpose and one purpose only: to protect and defend the United States of America."
President will attend memorial service
Obama's aides, meanwhile, worked to make way for Obama to attend a still unscheduled memorial service. The White House's top spokesman said Obama would attend that service and emphasized it would take place at the family's convenience and that it will not be dictated by the president's schedule.
"When a service is scheduled, the president will attend," Robert Gibbs told reporters during his daily briefing.
Later Saturday, Obama planned to make remarks to reporters in the Rose Garden before departing to the presidential retreat at Camp David for a night away from Washington. He planned to leave Wednesday for a 10-day trip to Asia."
Real nice of him to find the time.
It's obvious he doesn't see an act of terrorism as an act of terrorism when it comes to muslims shouting Allahu Akbar before shooting 43 people. Given the fact the man (and I use that term loosely) gave away all his belongings immediaely prior to the shooting, you'd think Obama would see it as something more than a nice guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt.
I disagree with your assertion. What do you expect him to say...go out and roundup the Muslims in the Army? Where do you see him say the Major is a nice guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt? I watched his press conference and heard him condemn what this "officer" did.
The Reaper
11-07-2009, 20:00
I think he should call a spade a spade and declare that this guy was a murderer and a terrorist.
Where are the hate crime charges, BTW?
TR
kimberly
11-07-2009, 21:19
I disagree with your assertion. What do you expect him to say...go out and roundup the Muslims in the Army? Where do you see him say the Major is a nice guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt? I watched his press conference and heard him condemn what this "officer" did.
Disagree, I don't mind, but the POTUS seems to be ignoring the fact this guy is a muslim terrorist.
I watched his press conference as well, and what I saw was someone very involved with himself and, having had a great time in a conference earlier spent an inordinate amount of time thanking people from said conference and saying hello to his friends BEFORE HE EVEN GOT TO THE SUBJECT OF THE TERRORIST SHOOTING UP FT HOOD AND EVERYBODY IN IT.
Apparently you didn't read the article I posted.
Big Daddy
11-07-2009, 21:38
I find it interesting that President Bush and his wife Laura went to the hospital yesterday to visit the wounded soldiers. God bless him for doing that. Now, I wonder if obama has been there yet.
I find it interesting that President Bush and his wife Laura went to the hospital yesterday to visit the wounded soldiers. God bless him for doing that. Now, I wonder if obama has been there yet.
No surprise here. President Bush and his wife Laura are both patriotic Americans who care for our troops. I think history will treat him with higher regard than his successor.
Disagree, I don't mind, but the POTUS seems to be ignoring the fact this guy is a muslim terrorist.
I watched his press conference as well, and what I saw was someone very involved with himself and, having had a great time in a conference earlier spent an inordinate amount of time thanking people from said conference and saying hello to his friends BEFORE HE EVEN GOT TO THE SUBJECT OF THE TERRORIST SHOOTING UP FT HOOD AND EVERYBODY IN IT.
Apparently you didn't read the article I posted.
2 minutes of shuck and jive, and then a short intermission where he mentioned the tragedy and it has continued down hill from there.....I just don't get the feeling of sincerity when he speaks, it is more about Lights, Action, Camera imo.
No surprise here. President Bush and his wife Laura are both patriotic Americans who care for our troops. I think history will treat him with higher regard than his successor.
Obama will be known as a non-stop advertisement of self-endorsement.
Obama will be known as a non-stop advertisement of self-endorsement.
I couldn't agree more. The guy's a parade of One!
The Bushes visited and didn't do it for publicity.
Now this is what I call class and true caring.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/07/george-w-bush-secretly-visits-fort-hood-victims/
I couldn't agree more. The guy's a parade of One!
Maybe he could pass an SFAS event for "political election", (e.g., speak, answer questions, show sympathy, concern for others, follow through, etc.). Better yet, be peered by his fellow students, and assessed by cadre.
To say, "Mr. President, your ruck sack is in the hall", would be a compliment.
The Bushes visited and didn't do it for publicity.
Now this is what I call class and true caring.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/07/george-w-bush-secretly-visits-fort-hood-victims/
They are true Patriots and caring Americans. They have been doing this a long time and that shows how real they really are. He is not perfect but I would defend him any day any time. His wife is also a class act and one of the most sincere people I have have the privilege to meet.
I thank them both for their past service and their continued support of our service members.
kimberly
11-08-2009, 08:28
I think he should call a spade a spade and declare that this guy was a murderer and a terrorist.
Where are the hate crime charges, BTW?
TR
Because they're afraid of being politically incorrect.
...
To say, "Mr. President, your ruck sack is in the hall", would be a compliment.
Wouldn't it be nice if it was that easy?
I disagree with your assertion. What do you expect him to say...go out and roundup the Muslims in the Army? Where do you see him say the Major is a nice guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt? I watched his press conference and heard him condemn what this "officer" did.
Let me help you out a bit:
"Official: Timing of Hasan's gun purchase shows "Of course, he planned this."
Michael Isikoff
Just three weeks after being transferred to the U.S. Army base at Fort Hood, Texas, Maj. Nidal Hasan walked into the "Guns Galore" gunship in Killeen, Texas and purchased the high powered semi-automatic pistol that he allegedly used in the mass shooting at the base on Thursday, a senior law enforcement official briefed on the investigation told Declassified.
The timing of the purchase of the Belgian made FN Herstal 5.7 pistol -- a growing weapon of choice of Mexican drug cartels -- is being viewed by some investigators as a potentially important clue suggesting that Hasan may have been plotting the attack for some time.
Hasan bought the gun on Aug. 1 of this year, said the law enforcement official, who asked that his name and agency not be identified because of the ongoing investigation. (Although Hasan's purchase of the gun was reported Friday by ABC and other news organizations, the date of the purchase has not previously been disclosed. A second federal law enforcement official confirmed the Aug. 1 date to Declassified on Saturday.)
At the same time, Hasan also bought several high capacity 20 round magazines that allowed him to rapidly fire off multiple rounds during the attack without reloading, the official said.
"Why do you go out and buy a pistol with several magazines?" said the law enforcement official. "Of course, he planned this." The official added, "Nobody wants to say that," referring to the authorities' reluctance to refer to the shooting as a pre-meditated attack.
Hasan ended up using the Herstal semi-automatic and another handgun to fire off as many as 100 rounds during the Thursday attack that killed 13 people at the base and wound 38.
What is especially intriguing about the date of the purchase is that on July 7, according to Hassan's official Army records posted on Declassified on Friday, he was transferred from Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington D.C. to the Darnall Army Medical Center in Fort Hood.
The transfer -- and the gun purchase -- also came while Hasan may have been undergoing a period of increasing alienation from the U.S. and expressing sympathy for Muslim militants. An Internet posting written by someone with the screen name of "NidalHasan" compared Islamic suicide bombers to Japanese kamikaze pilots.
"To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate," the posting read referring a recent attack on American soldiers. "It's more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. You can call them crazy [if] you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam." (FBI officials say they have not yet confirmed that the Hasan who is the suspect in the Fort Hood shooting is the same individual who posted the writing on the Internet.)
To some in law enforcement - including the one who spoke to Newsweek -- the purchase of the high-powered gun, the Internet writing and Hasan's alleged shouting of "Allah U Akbar" (Arabic for "God is Great") during the attack - suggest that the Fort Hood shooting should be viewed more as a terrorist act by a "lone wolf" Muslim extremist than as the work of a troubled physician who "snapped" under pressure.
But FBI and Justice Department officials are reluctant-at this stage in the investigation-to reach any conclusions, at least officially. "We just don't know enough at this stage," a FBI spokesman said Friday night. "
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2009/11/07/official-timing-of-hasan-s-gun-purchase-shows-of-course-he-planned-this.aspx
Snaquebite
11-08-2009, 09:42
The Bushes visited and didn't do it for publicity.
Now this is what I call class and true caring.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/07/george-w-bush-secretly-visits-fort-hood-victims/
GW went to Fort Hood and BO went golfing - that should be clear enough for anyone.
The Reaper
11-08-2009, 09:49
To say, "Mr. President, your ruck sack is in the hall", would be a compliment.
Our next opportunity is 6 Nov 2012.
TR
The left is going to paint this a$$-ho as a one-off psycho with PTSD and completely bury that notion that he is a Jihadist Terrorist.
The following is one of many articles I have read that attempt to find an explanation for the shooting, other than Jihad. According to this writer, it could have been compassion fatigue. :rolleyes:
'Compassion fatigue' can affect mental health professionals
Helpers often take others' trauma home.
By Andrea Ball
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Sunday, November 08, 2009
Eleven years ago, Jim Madden woke up in Puerto Rico with a start, the bad dream still fresh in his mind.
A battered shack. A shirtless, dark-haired teen lying on the floor in bare feet.
"Nothing was happening in the dream," said Madden, now 77. "I just saw him, and I had a lot of unpleasant feelings."
The Waco psychologist had that dream while volunteering with the American Red Cross for relief efforts after Hurricane Georges. He'd met that boy. He'd been in that shack. And, obviously, the trip had shaken him.
In the aftermath of Thursday's shooting spree at Fort Hood, as the focus continues to swirl around the suspect, U.S. Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, mental health advocates are buzzing about the risks of their profession: secondary trauma and compassion fatigue.
Hasan — who is accused of killing 13 people and wounding 30 — required counseling and extra supervision while an intern at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington because he had trouble dealing with some patients, according to an Associated Press story. Some reports have suggested that he may have been traumatized from hearing the terrible things that have happened to the people he counseled.
Whether it happened to Hasan, secondary trauma is a harsh reality for mental health professionals, said Sandra Lopez, a clinical associate professor at the University of Houston.
According to a 2007 study published by the National Association of Social Workers, 40.5 percent of 282 social workers surveyed said they had found themselves unintentionally thinking about their work with traumatized clients.
More than 19 percent said they had experienced psychological distress when reminded of those clients; 12.4 percent had had a physiological reaction.
That same study showed that 15.2 percent met the criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder with disturbing dreams, sleep problems and attempts to avoid clients.
"It's like a Kodak moment," Lopez said. "We carry these digital pictures in our heads that people share with us."
Lopez says she has struggled with trauma. In the early 1990s, after years of facilitating a support group for people whose loved ones had committed suicide, her work started interrupting her life, she said. Unrelated events, sights or sounds would remind her of the stories she had heard. Her heart would race. Anxiety would wash over her.
She also noticed that she was distancing herself from her clients.
"I was not as compassionate," Lopez said. "There was a part of me that couldn't hear one more story."
Many professionals don't talk about their stress because they're embarrassed or ashamed, said Chris McCarthy, a professor at the department of educational psychology at the University of Texas. Instead, some people quit the profession. Others try to cope with drugs or alcohol.
"Part of your job is to help other people, and it becomes hard to admit that has become difficult," he said.
Experts recommend the typical salves for such stress: hobbies, activities, support systems. But it's also important that they look at the deeper issues — such as their history and experiences — that make them susceptible to the trauma, Lopez said.
"We're human first," she said. "You can put on the garb or guise of your profession, but we're human first."
After 13 years of volunteering with the Red Cross, Madden — who is counseling volunteers and others associated with the Fort Hood shootings — has learned the signs of emotional burnout. He tries to sleep, take breaks and eats regularly. He also focuses on the little victories, such as the time he helped track down a Bible for a woman who had lost hers in Hurricane Katrina.
"Sometimes, it's just remarkable how little it takes to help somebody," he said.
aball@statesman.com; 912-2506
Editor's Note: We have disabled commenting on this story because of repeated abuse of our commenting policy related to the Ft. Hood shooting.
Link (http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/2009/11/08/1108trauma.html)
MOO -
MAJ Hasan was obviously a disturbingly conflicted person who failed to achieve a rationally acceptable balance in his personal loyalties and beliefs.
MAJ Hasan 'slipped through the cracks' of a system which should have been able to recognize the nature of his personal conflict and acted to prevent this tragedy - that it did not do so should be of concern to us all.
MAJ Hasan is a murderer.
MAJ Hasan should be buried in the Potter's field with the Nazi saboteurs from WW2.
Richard
Because they're afraid of being politically incorrect.
Wouldn't it be nice if it was that easy?
Let me help you out a bit:
"Official: Timing of Hasan's gun purchase shows "Of course, he planned this."
Michael Isikoff
Just three weeks after being transferred to the U.S. Army base at Fort Hood, Texas, Maj. Nidal Hasan walked into the "Guns Galore" gunship in Killeen, Texas and purchased the high powered semi-automatic pistol that he allegedly used in the mass shooting at the base on Thursday, a senior law enforcement official briefed on the investigation told Declassified.
The timing of the purchase of the Belgian made FN Herstal 5.7 pistol -- a growing weapon of choice of Mexican drug cartels -- is being viewed by some investigators as a potentially important clue suggesting that Hasan may have been plotting the attack for some time.
Hasan bought the gun on Aug. 1 of this year, said the law enforcement official, who asked that his name and agency not be identified because of the ongoing investigation. (Although Hasan's purchase of the gun was reported Friday by ABC and other news organizations, the date of the purchase has not previously been disclosed. A second federal law enforcement official confirmed the Aug. 1 date to Declassified on Saturday.)
At the same time, Hasan also bought several high capacity 20 round magazines that allowed him to rapidly fire off multiple rounds during the attack without reloading, the official said.
"Why do you go out and buy a pistol with several magazines?" said the law enforcement official. "Of course, he planned this." The official added, "Nobody wants to say that," referring to the authorities' reluctance to refer to the shooting as a pre-meditated attack.
Hasan ended up using the Herstal semi-automatic and another handgun to fire off as many as 100 rounds during the Thursday attack that killed 13 people at the base and wound 38.
What is especially intriguing about the date of the purchase is that on July 7, according to Hassan's official Army records posted on Declassified on Friday, he was transferred from Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington D.C. to the Darnall Army Medical Center in Fort Hood.
The transfer -- and the gun purchase -- also came while Hasan may have been undergoing a period of increasing alienation from the U.S. and expressing sympathy for Muslim militants. An Internet posting written by someone with the screen name of "NidalHasan" compared Islamic suicide bombers to Japanese kamikaze pilots.
"To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate," the posting read referring a recent attack on American soldiers. "It's more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. You can call them crazy [if] you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam." (FBI officials say they have not yet confirmed that the Hasan who is the suspect in the Fort Hood shooting is the same individual who posted the writing on the Internet.)
To some in law enforcement - including the one who spoke to Newsweek -- the purchase of the high-powered gun, the Internet writing and Hasan's alleged shouting of "Allah U Akbar" (Arabic for "God is Great") during the attack - suggest that the Fort Hood shooting should be viewed more as a terrorist act by a "lone wolf" Muslim extremist than as the work of a troubled physician who "snapped" under pressure.
But FBI and Justice Department officials are reluctant-at this stage in the investigation-to reach any conclusions, at least officially. "We just don't know enough at this stage," a FBI spokesman said Friday night. "
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2009/11/07/official-timing-of-hasan-s-gun-purchase-shows-of-course-he-planned-this.aspx
PM inbound. Perhaps it will help you to understand my perspective
kimberly
11-08-2009, 12:39
PM inbound. Perhaps it will help you to understand my perspective
My apologies to P36.
It seems the more that is uncovered, the more it is likely the offending shooter planned and executed. Taking into consideration what is being uncovered, it is simple reasoning that he shot 43 people with his religion in mind, whether it was because he didn't want to be deployed on behalf of our country to work against those who believe similarly as he, or other reasons. My opinion.
Saturation
11-08-2009, 12:59
SF-TX,
Thank you for your recent posting- it shows a real issue for mental health professionals. Whomever is attempting to highlight this real issue, specific to this case, is imho WAY off.
Is vicarious traumatization/compassion fatigue real- I will argue yes. In response to such, the mental health professional will often exhibit signs of depression, withdrawal, and pain. Professionals own the responsibility to provide quality ethical care- the instrument of their work is their mind, their compassion, and their knowledge. They therefore must create support systems and respond to this possibility.
I believe the attempts to make this case about combat stress or compassion fatigue are completely off the mark. This sounds to me like an isolated individual, angry & provoked* that did not begin adulthood as a complete personality. Think of an empty, hollow person with doubts and self loathing looking "to fix" it by trying fit in/to be a part of something.
*To be clear- my use of the word provoked is specific to an internal provocation and not from external forces of name calling, etc. that have been mentioned in the media. External forces most likely reinforced this individual through his interpretation/slant of his chosen religion.
In advance- none of above makes it ok or creates a defense of insanity. He made distinct choices time and time again that led him to his time evil.
Respectfully,
Saturation
MAJ Hasan should be buried in the Potter's field with the Nazi saboteurs from WW2.
May he heal quickly from his wounds and move quickly to execution. Better yet, just take him up 500' above the west Texas desert and toss him out.
I'd like to go along and hold the door open.
WD
Mr. Freeze
11-08-2009, 15:12
I went through a VA PTSD group session last year, not as a Vet but as part of Psych rotation elective. Most of the group were OIF soldiers, with some SE Asia. I think what angers me so much about the mental health aspect (transparent copout that it is) of this case is that all I could think the whole time during the outings/sessions was "you shouldn't have had to see/do/hear/feel that." or something similar. I can attest that the weight of each individual's trauma gets redistributed amongst the group, including those running it, no differently than divvying up med supplies. It can stir you up a bit IMHO, especially when the more reserved, resistant ones finally open up. But, NEVER anger over what they did.
I haven't done any double-blind, randomized, placebo trials, but if I were to guess, people affected by "Contagious PTSD" are 100x more likely to be found hanging in their closet rather than standing over dead Soldiers holding two smoking pistols.
However, 100% probably aren't Muslim terrorists who praise suicide bombing as honorable.
incarcerated
11-08-2009, 15:27
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/11/08/2009-11-08_top_army_official_fears_retaliation_on_muslim_s oldiers_in_wake_of_ft_hood_massac.html
Sen. Joe Lieberman calls Fort Hood massacre a 'terrorist' act
BY Samuel Goldsmith
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Originally Published:Sunday, November 8th 2009, 11:34 AM
Sen. Joe Lieberman called the Fort Hood massacre an act of "Islamist extremism" - even as top Army brass warned Sunday against guessing at a motive, fearing backlash against Muslim soldiers.
"There are very, very strong warning signs here that Dr. Hasan had become an Islamist extremist and, therefore, that this was a terrorist act," Lieberman (I-Conn) told Fox News on Sunday....
My apologies to P36.
It seems the more that is uncovered, the more it is likely the offending shooter planned and executed. Taking into consideration what is being uncovered, it is simple reasoning that he shot 43 people with his religion in mind, whether it was because he didn't want to be deployed on behalf of our country to work against those who believe similarly as he, or other reasons. My opinion.
No apologies necessary.
I don't want anything to hinder the Major getting what's coming to him.
Utah Bob
11-08-2009, 17:24
Lieberman is right.
Doesn't matter if Hasan (I won't call him Major) was crazy as a s**t house rat or not.
Red Flag 1
11-08-2009, 17:32
FWIW,
The professional psych provider is the therapy. In other health care arenas, meds, and/or surgical intervention are the therapy. Meds used in psych care are a tool to facilitate treatment modalities; the therapist is the prime tool. This is not an easy task, and must be a professional interaction. Psych residencies include training to recognize when the therapist is getting, "too close", or needs to "unpack" with another professional.
As yet, we really don't know what drove the Army Psychiatrist to take the action he is alleged to have taken. Given the years of education and training, he should have had the tools he needed to practice his profession without harm to anyone. I sense that questions arise about the training at WRAMC. Was this Psychiatrist a Board Certified in Psychiatry? Did he even sit his boards? There is news coverage saying there were poor reports generated during his training; if so, how was he sent into practice without closer peer guidance? Was there another senior Psychiatrist with him at Ft. Hood?
Not making excuses here, but there seems to have been enough red flags here to have aborted this. It would be interesting to see if other Psychiatrists have turned to murder(s) to resolve personal conflict in a similar manner.
My $.02.
RF 1
Hasan is a traitor, a murderer, and a coward. In Texas of Old he would be swinging from a tall tree. The investigation should not be hindered by political correctness, as a nation we have enough common sense to prevent backlash towards honorably serving Muslim servicemen and law abiding citizens, if Hasan had help they need to be brought to justice too.
The question I have is what lessons will America take from this?
Obama for example the CIC of our military has yet to visit Ft. Hood and is out golfing at Camp David. Easy lesson here.
There are positives to be taken from Fort Hood. I read Officer Munley's aggressive engagement of Hasan stems from training and lessons learned from subsequent analysis of the Virginia Tech Shootings.
America is at war. We have seen enemy attacks on domestic military installations from the Pentagon to Ft. Hood. If we trust our servicemen with weapons on the front, why can't we trust them to carry on bases, when there is clear precedence our military installations are targets?
Aside from Obama's impotence, the most discouraging thing I see from Ft. Hood is the fixation the press has with Hasan's 5.7mm pistol, labeling it a "cop killer" etc. A quick query of the Search Button on this pistol seems to indicate QP's here find nothing extraordinary about the weapon. This type of media hype is the preamble to gun control legislation, (ironic in this case since the base gun control laws contributed to the carnage.)
Finally, the accounts of bravery and sacrifice under fire from the soldiers and LEO's at Fort Hood reinforce my pride in our nation.
Finally, the accounts of bravery and sacrifice from the soldiers and LEO's at Fort Hood reinforce my pride in our nation.
I've read the various news reports and watched Shane on Friday and To Kill A Mockingbird yesterday - helped personify for me the true nature of America's character as portrayed in fact and fiction.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
HowardCohodas
11-08-2009, 23:30
And the hits just keep coming... Alleged Fort Hood Shooter Frequented Local Strip Club (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573052,00.html)
incarcerated
11-09-2009, 02:47
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fort-hood-probe9-2009nov09,0,5487900.story
Fort Hood shooting suspect's ties to mosque investigated
The FBI and Army are looking into whether Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan had an association with militants at the Virginia mosque where two 9/11 hijackers prayed, a source says.
By Josh Meyer
November 9, 2009
Reporting from Washington - The FBI and the Army on Sunday were investigating whether the military psychiatrist suspected in the Ft. Hood shooting rampage had an association with militants at a mosque in Virginia or in cyberspace.
A senior federal law enforcement official said there was no immediate evidence of such a link, nor of any direct connection between the suspected gunman, Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, and terrorist groups or individuals, either in person or online. Hasan is accused of opening fire at a readiness center in Ft. Hood, Texas, on Thursday, killing 13 and wounding dozens. He reportedly had been depressed about his upcoming deployment to Afghanistan.
But authorities are still scouring "voluminous" hard drives, multiple e-mail accounts and website trails "to see what's out there, and to see what it all means," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. "There's a lot of work being done."
The official said investigators were looking into Hasan's association with the Dar al Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Va., in early 2001, about the same time that a radical Islamist prayer leader and two of the Sept. 11 hijackers were there.
The mosque is one of the biggest in the United States, and the official cautioned that thousands of people go there for prayer services and other events. The funeral of Hasan's mother was held there on May 31, 2001, the Associated Press reported.
Authorities were focusing aggressively on whether Hasan more recently had been following the fiery online sermons and blog postings of that imam, Anwar al Awlaki, the official said.
Awlaki, a U.S. citizen, left the United States in 2002 and is believed to be in Yemen. He is actively supporting the Islamist jihad, or holy war against the West, through his website.
Early this morning, after Awlaki's name was publicly linked to Hasan's, a posting on Awlaki's site was titled “Nidal Hassan Did the Right Thing.”
In it, a writer claiming to be Awlaki described Hasan as a hero and "a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people."
"Nidal opened fire on soldiers who were on their way to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. How can there be any dispute about the virtue of what he has done? In fact the only way a Muslim could Islamically justify serving as a soldier in the U.S. army is if his intention is to follow the footsteps of men like Nidal," the writer said.
There was no way to confirm immediately whether the posting was actually from Awlaki.
The London Telegraph first reported the potential link between Hasan and the mosque.
In recent days, authorities poring over Hasan's computer, Internet records and multiple e-mail accounts have found evidence that he visited other radical Islamist websites with some frequency, according to several officials familiar with the investigation.
"Obviously, people who visit these websites can be influenced by or affected by them, by the influence of the clerics, as opposed to being directed by them," said the senior federal law enforcement official. "It goes back to his state of mind."
Some counter-terrorism officials and experts said that although Hasan's connections to Awlaki, if any, are unclear, the imam has had a major effect on aspiring violent extremists around the world.
"Awlaki is one of the principal jihadi luminaries for would-be homegrown terrorists," said Evan Kohlmann, a terrorism consultant for the U.S. and other governments. "His fluency with English, his unabashed advocacy of jihad and mujahideen organizations, and his Web-savvy approach are a powerful combination."
Kohlmann said Awlaki's lecture on "Constants on the Path of Jihad" -- based on a similarly named document written by the founder of Al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia -- is the "virtual bible for lone-wolf Muslim extremists."
FBI agents and military investigators continued to work methodically to retrace Hasan's steps in an effort to determine what might have set him off and who, if anyone, might have known about his alleged plans.
There was no indication from a thorough search of his computer and other seized evidence that the suspect had any conspirators, federal law enforcement officials said, but they were not willing to rule that out.
Those officials said that Hasan's apparent interest in websites focusing on radical Islamist ideology came at a time when he had grown increasingly -- and publicly -- unhappy with the U.S. war effort and his possible deployment.
"There is nothing that we have found thus far linking him to a terrorist group, but we have intelligence that he made postings in chat rooms," said Scott Stewart, vice president of tactical intelligence for Stratfor, a Texas-based private firm that gathers intelligence for corporations and divisions of the U.S. and foreign governments. He said the group got its information from open-source intelligence on the Internet and elsewhere, and from authorities of various agencies involved in the investigation into Hasan.
"Everything that I'm seeing so far is that he was a lone wolf. It does seem that there was a religious element to this, but there could have been some other workplace violence issues too, since it seems he was a loner who had few friends," Stewart said. "But it's hard to separate sometimes, especially with a lone-wolf actor, where the mental disturbance ends and the religious convictions and political beliefs start."
Meanwhile, the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), said he wanted to launch a congressional investigation into the shooting.
"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance," Lieberman said on "Fox News Sunday." "He should have been gone."
But Army Chief of Staff George W. Casey Jr. urged caution and said it was too early to arrive at conclusions about the suspect's motives. Casey warned on ABC's "This Week" that focusing on Hasan's ties to Islam could "heighten the backlash" against enlisted Muslims.
Hasan's relatives have said that he was taunted for his faith. They have also said that he was a good doctor and, if he was the shooter, must have snapped.
josh.meyer@latimes.com
Fiercely Loyal
11-09-2009, 06:00
I find it interesting that President Bush and his wife Laura went to the hospital yesterday to visit the wounded soldiers.
It says a lot about where his heart has really been the entire time. Too bad I never got to meet him.
Fiercely Loyal
11-09-2009, 06:13
Aside from Obama's impotence, the most discouraging thing I see from Ft. Hood is the fixation the press has with Hasan's 5.7mm pistol, labeling it a "cop killer" etc.
As I recall from the FN Demo Guy when he came to Alaska is that the pistol did not share the same ballistic potential the P90 does because of the shortness of the barrel and it does not reach it's full potential. He told me at the time (2004) that they main reason for the pistol to come out was simply the use of ammo between the two platforms.
PedOncoDoc
11-09-2009, 07:06
The professional psych provider is the therapy. In other health care arenas, meds, and/or surgical intervention are the therapy. Meds used in psych care are a tool to facilitate treatment modalities; the therapist is the prime tool. This is not an easy task, and must be a professional interaction. Psych residencies include training to recognize when the therapist is getting, "too close", or needs to "unpack" with another professional.
Either the military psychiatrists practice medicine differently than civilian psychiatrists, you are working off old/bad intel or my exposure during my immersion training was at faulty institutions.
Psychologists do the counseling - psychiatrists prescribe the medicatoins and look for side effects.
Most psychiatry residency programs do not teach the counseling and schools of thought that were once a mainstay of their field. There are graduate psychology programs that do all that now. Most psychiatry appointments last 15-25 minutes where thought processes are queried, medications are reviewed, side effects are investigated and dose/med adjustments are made.
My experience may have been different from what you've seen, but it was in the past 5 years and at 4 different institutions in 3 cities in 2 different states.
YMMV.
armymom1228
11-09-2009, 09:14
President Bush has it right. He, unlike so many, is focusing on the wounded and honoring those who died.
I have long been of the opinion that we, as a nation, tend to forget the victims of such situation. We focus on and obsess endlessly over the shooter and his/her motives for thier behavior while just casting those who have been harmed to the wayside in our need for gossip.
The list of those who are dead... read, remember, say thier names out loud they deserve to live again. Last yr on Veteran's Day I went 'crosscountry' as they say at Arlington. I did it to get photos of fall colors and as I walked I said the names of each Vet on the headstone. It let them live again. I walked to the old sections to say those names who had no living families to remember them.
Here are the names so we all, here, can remember and honor our fallen. It really doesn't matter where our soldiers died. They signed, they gave thier lives while in uniform. To me, they are heroes.
The victims from the shooting ranged in age from 62 to 19. One was a lieutenant colonel and five were involved in providing medical services to soldiers
They were identified as:
-- Lt. Col. Juanita L. Warman, 55, of Havre De Grace, Md. She was assigned to the 1908th Medical Company, Independence, Mo.
-- Maj. Libardo Caraveo, 52, of Woodbridge, Va. He was assigned to the 467th Medical Detachment, Madison, Wis.
-- Capt. John P. Gaffaney, 54, of San Diego, Calif. He was assigned to the 1908th Medical Company, Independence, Mo.
-- Capt. Russell Seager, 41, of Racine, Wis. He was assigned to the 467th Medical Company, Madison, Wis.
-- Staff Sgt. Justin Decrow, 32, of Plymouth, Ind. He was assigned to the 16th Signal Company, Fort Hood, Texas.
--Sgt. Amy Krueger, 29, of Kiel, Wis. She was assigned to the 467th Medical Company, Madison, Wis.
-- Spc. Jason Hunt, 22, of Tillman, Okla. He was assigned to the 1st Brigade, Fort Hood, Texas.
-- Spc. Frederick Greene, 29, of Mountain City, Tenn. He was assigned to the 16th Signal Company, Fort Hood, Texas.
-- Pfc. Aaron Nemelka, 19, of West Jordan, Utah. He was assigned to the 510th Engineer Company, 20th Engineer Battalion, Fort Hood, Texas.
-- Pfc. Michael Pearson, 22, of Bolinbrook, Ill. He was assigned to the 510th Engineer Company, 20th Engineer Battalion, Fort Hood, Texas.
-- Spc. Kham Xiong, 23, of St. Paul, Minn. He was assigned to the 510th Engineer Company, 20th Engineer Battalion, Fort Hood, Texas.
-- Pvt. Francheska Velez, 21, of Chicago, Ill. She was assigned to the 15th Combat Support Battalion, Fort Hood, Texas.
Mr. Michael Cahill, 62, of Cameron, Texas. He was a civilian employee on Fort Hood.
PVT Velez was 3 months pregnant, her child is to, a victim.
RIP soldiers, thank you for keeping me free!!!
Anne,
an ArmyMom,
Marine Corps (ex)/ wife,
Navy widow
Army Air Force/Air Force dtr
Utah Bob
11-09-2009, 09:29
Michael Cahill, listed as a civilian, was a retired CWO.
I have listed them permanently here. Ft. Hood (http://sassvets.homestead.com/forthood.html)
This page will never be taken down.
Hasan tried to contact Al Qaeda and U.S. intelligence knew - report
BY BRIAN KATES
NY DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Originally Published:Monday, November 9th 2009, 9:23 AM
American intelligence agencies knew months ago that the Fort Hood gunman had tried to contact people linked to Al Qaeda, ABC News reported Monday.
It is not known whether the agencies informed the Army that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan had attempted to connect with Anwar al Awlaki, a radical mosque leader who runs an English language anti-American web site that promotes jihad, U.S. officials briefed on classified material told ABC.
In a blog posting early Monday titled "Nidal Hassan Did the Right Thing," Awlaki calls Hassan a "hero" and a "man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people." Hasan, who is from Yemen, attended a Falls Church, Va., mosque when Awlaki was an imam there, the Associated Press reported.
The Telegraph of London reported that Awlaki had made contact with two of the 9/11 hijackers when he serving as an imam in San Diego. Awlaki, said to have been under electronic surveillance by U.S. intelligence agencies, reportedly served as an imam in Denver, San Diego and Falls Church, Va.
He denied knowledge of the hijacking plot and was not charged. After an intensive investigation by the FBI, Awlaki returned to Yemen
Soldiers who served with Hasan said they reported his questionable loyalty up the chain of command.
A fellow Army doctor who studied with Hasan, Val Finell, told ABC News, "We would frequently say he was a Muslim first and an American second. And that came out in just about everything he did at the university."
Finell said he and other Army doctors complained to superiors about Hasan's statements.
On Sunday, Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-Conn.) called for an investigation into whether the Army missed signs as to whether Hasan was an Islamic extremist.
"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have a zero tolerance," Lieberman told Fox News Sunday.
CIA director Leon Panetta and National Intelligence chief Dennis Blair have been asked by Congress "to preserve" all documents and intelligence files that relate to Hasan, the network reported.
Soldiers who served with Hasan said they reported his questionable loyalty up the chain of command.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/09/2009-11-09_fort_hood_gunman_nidal_malik_hasan_tried_to_con tact_al_qaeda_and_us_intelligence.html
The only thing I can think of is perhaps they were trying to reel in a bigger fish, but if these accounts are accurate, why was this officer not immediately arrested for treason during war?
LongWire
11-09-2009, 09:50
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/09/2009-11-09_fort_hood_gunman_nidal_malik_hasan_tried_to_con tact_al_qaeda_and_us_intelligence.html
The only thing I can think of is perhaps they were trying to reel in a bigger fish, but if these accounts are accurate, why was this officer not immediately arrested for treason during war?
I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Can we send this guy to Gitmo, while they figure out how to charge him?
PedOncoDoc
11-09-2009, 14:43
I don't have time to read this whole thread, so sorry if this is a repost, I just read that Major Hasan was part of Obama's transition team for Homeland Security: http://www.gwumc.edu/hspi/old/PTTF_ProceedingsReport_05.19.09.pdf (page 29, left column, halfway down)
Why didn't the One give Hasan a shout out in the conference?
In all seriousness, thanks for posting this Broadsword - an excellent catch and an eye opener.
EDIT: Check that-
False. Accused Ft. Hood, Texas killer Nidal Malik Hasan did, in fact, participate in a project of George Washington University's Homeland Security Policy Institute called "The HSPI Presidential Transition Task Force," but this purely academic body had nothing whatsoever to do with Obama's official Homeland Security transition team.
From urbanlegends.com, reference here:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/nidal_hasan.htm
I'll have to do some more digging to figure out if this is intentional misdirection or not.
Anevolution
11-09-2009, 14:48
I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Can we send this guy to Gitmo, while they figure out how to charge him?
Sir,
Get the plane ready, unfortunately he's awake. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_hood_shooting. My personal vote is to shot him on the White House front lawn.
V/r
Anevolution
Fort Hood gunman attended HSPI events as an audience member
Emily Cahn, GW Hatchet, 6 Nov 2009
U.S. Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan – the military psychiatrist accused of opening fire at the Fort Hood army base in Texas – attended “a number” of events at GW’s Homeland Security Policy Institute, according to HSPI’s director, but only attended the events as an audience member.
The Washington Examiner reported this morning that Hasan “was a participant in George Washington University’s Homeland Security Policy Institute task force that aimed at providing advice on security to the new administration.”
Yet Frank Cilluffo, director of the HSPI, said Hasan was not affiliated with the HSPI.
“There have been a lot of erroneous stories,” Cilluffo said, adding that Hasan has “no affiliation [with HSPI], was not a member of the task force, but participated in some of the meetings as an audience member.”
Cilluffo said Hasan RSVP’d to these HSPI events “in his capacity as a disaster and preventative psychiatry fellow with the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences” – a federal health sciences university which trains its students for “military medicine, disaster medicine and military medical readiness.”
“We try to err on the side of transparency and make available to everyone who is in attendance at our meetings, and that is I’m sure where the linkage came from,” Cilluffo said, referring to the Examiner’s misrepresentation of Hasan’s affiliation with HSPI.
http://blogs.gwhatchet.com/newsroom/2009/11/06/fort-hood-gunman-attended-hspi-events-as-an-audience-member/?hp
Fort Hood gunman attended HSPI events as an audience member
Emily Cahn, GW Hatchet, 6 Nov 2009
U.S. Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan – the military psychiatrist accused of opening fire at the Fort Hood army base in Texas – attended “a number” of events at GW’s Homeland Security Policy Institute, according to HSPI’s director, but only attended the events as an audience member.
The Washington Examiner reported this morning that Hasan “was a participant in George Washington University’s Homeland Security Policy Institute task force that aimed at providing advice on security to the new administration.”
Yet Frank Cilluffo, director of the HSPI, said Hasan was not affiliated with the HSPI.
“There have been a lot of erroneous stories,” Cilluffo said, adding that Hasan has “no affiliation [with HSPI], was not a member of the task force, but participated in some of the meetings as an audience member.”
Cilluffo said Hasan RSVP’d to these HSPI events “in his capacity as a disaster and preventative psychiatry fellow with the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences” – a federal health sciences university which trains its students for “military medicine, disaster medicine and military medical readiness.”
“We try to err on the side of transparency and make available to everyone who is in attendance at our meetings, and that is I’m sure where the linkage came from,” Cilluffo said, referring to the Examiner’s misrepresentation of Hasan’s affiliation with HSPI.
http://blogs.gwhatchet.com/newsroom/2009/11/06/fort-hood-gunman-attended-hspi-events-as-an-audience-member/?hp
Since when are audience members listed in the final report?
I have sat in the audience for a lot of different things throughout my career and have never had my name published in the final report.
Not to say that it couldn't happen, but something sounds off about the response.
Since when are audience members listed in the final report?
I have sat in the audience for a lot of different things throughout my career and have never had my name published in the final report.
Not to say that it couldn't happen, but something sounds off about the response.
Look at the report - they listed all attendees to the conference - I've been to conferences which do that to 'pad' the preceived importance of the thing.
Richard
you can read the full story here: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5A85DK20091110
...
U.S. intelligence agencies learned an Army psychiatrist tried to contact Islamists with suspected al Qaeda links and relayed that information to federal authorities before the man allegedly went on a shooting spree in Texas last week, U.S. sources said on Monday.
...
The New York Times said intelligence agencies intercepted communications last year and this year between Hasan and a cleric in Yemen known for his incendiary anti-American teachings.
...
Hasan yelled "Allahu Akbar" -- Arabic for "God is Greatest" -- just before the shooting, Chuck Medley, Fort Hood's director of Emergency Services, said.
...
But the Fort Hood commander, Lieutenant-General Robert Cone, said there was no evidence this was a terrorist attack.
ZooKeeper
11-09-2009, 19:47
& the hits keep coming... http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873
Officials: U.S. Army Told of Hasan's Contacts with al Qaeda
Army Major in Fort Hood Massacre Used 'Electronic Means' to Connect with Terrorists
By RICHARD ESPOSITO, MATTHEW COLE and BRIAN ROSS
Nov. 9, 2009 —
U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.
According to the officials, the Army was informed of Hasan's contact, but it is unclear what, if anything, the Army did in response.
Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI), the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, said that he requested the CIA and other intelligence agencies brief the committee on what was known, if anything, about Hasan by the U.S. intelligence community, only to be refused.
In response, Hoekstra issued a document preservation request to four intelligence agencies. The letter, dated November 7th, was sent to directors Dennis Blair (DNI), Robert Mueller (FBI), Lt. Gen Keith Alexander (NSA) and Leon Panetta (CIA).
Hoekstra said he is "absolutely furious" that the house intel committee has been refused an intelligence briefing by the DNI or CIA on Hasan's attempt to reach out to al Qaeda, as first reported by ABC News.
"This is a law enforcement investigation, in which other agenciesnot the CIAhave the lead," CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano said in a response to ABC News. " Any suggestion that the CIA refused to brief Congress is incorrect."
Investigators want to know if Hasan maintained contact with a radical mosque leader from Virginia, Anwar al Awlaki, who now lives in Yemen and runs a web site that promotes jihad around the world against the U.S.
In a blog posting early Monday titled "Nidal Hassan Did the Right Thing," Awlaki calls Hasan a "hero" and a "man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people."
According to his site, Awlaki served as an imam in Denver, San Diego and Falls Church, Virginia.
The Associated Press reported Sunday that Major Hasan attended the Falls Church mosque when Awlaki was there.
The Telegraph of London reported that Awlaki had made contact with two of the 9/11 hijackers when he was in San Diego.
He denied any knowledge of the hijacking plot and was never charged with any crime. After an intensive investigation by the FBI , Awlaki moved to Yemen.
People who knew or worked with Hasan say he seemed to have gradually become more radical in his disapproval of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
On Sunday, Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) called for an investigation into whether the Army missed signs as to whether Hasan was an Islamic extremist.
"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have a zero tolerance," Lieberman told Fox News Sunday.
Army Chief of Staff
A fellow Army doctor who studied with Hasan, Val Finell, told ABC News, "He would frequently say he was a Muslim first and an American second. And that came out in just about everything he did at the University."
Finell said he and other Army doctors complained to superiors about Hasan's statements.
"And we questioned how somebody could take an oath of office&be an officer in the military and swear allegiance to the constitution and to defend America against all enemies, foreign and domestic and have that type of conflict," Finell told ABC News.
The Army Chief of Staff, General George Casey, raised concerns over the weekend that innocent Muslim soldiers could suffer as a result of the shooting at Fort Hood.
"I think the speculation (on Hasan's Islamic roots) could potentially heighten backlash against some of our Muslim soldiers," he said on ABC's "This Week."
I mean under Bush, we all know there were multiple attempts at terrorist attacks on the U.S., but they were all prevented.
9-11??? Anthrax attacks???
(and no I do not want to unfairly blame the President for this, I am just wondering if this is in fact connected to his policies)
:rolleyes: What policies? MAJ Hasan has been in the Army for more than 11 months (current POTUS time in office) as have the same people who have been in charge of the FBI (2001), DOD (Sec Def 2006), and DA (CSA 2007).
IMO the 'entire system' failed miserably here - and our concerns should be why when there was such a clear trail of text book behaviors leading up to this guy's murderous actions of last week. What homeland security? :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
kimberly
11-10-2009, 00:11
Obama went golfing
Bush went to the hospitals to visit the wounded
Obama says give Hasan the benefit of the doubt
Bush would most likely say string him up and make an example of him.
Hmmm
Mr. Hollywood has some learnin' to do.
Last paragraph is particularly sobering.....
Wall Street Journal
NOVEMBER 9, 2009, 11:36 P.M. ET
By DOROTHY RABINOWITZ
It can by now come as no surprise that the Fort Hood massacre yielded an instant flow of exculpatory media meditations on the stresses that must have weighed on the killer who mowed down 13 Americans and wounded 29 others. Still, the intense drive to wrap this clear case in a fog of mystery is eminently worthy of notice.
The tide of pronouncements and ruminations pointing to every cause for this event other than the one obvious to everyone in the rational world continues apace. Commentators, reporters, psychologists and, indeed, army spokesmen continue to warn portentously, "We don't yet know the motive for the shootings."
What a puzzle this piece of vacuity must be to audiences hearing it, some, no doubt, with outrage. To those not terrorized by fear of offending Muslim sensitivities, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's motive was instantly clear: It was an act of terrorism by a man with a record of expressing virulent, anti-American, pro-jihadist sentiments. All were conspicuous signs of danger his Army superiors chose to ignore.
What is hard to ignore, now, is the growing derangement on all matters involving terrorism and Muslim sensitivities. Its chief symptoms: a palpitating fear of discomfiting facts and a willingness to discard those facts and embrace the richest possible variety of ludicrous theories as to the motives behind an act of Islamic terrorism. All this we have seen before but never in such naked form. The days following the Fort Hood rampage have told us more than we want to know, perhaps, about the depth and reach of this epidemic.
One of the first outbreaks of these fevers, the night of the shootings, featured television's star psychologist, Dr. Phil, who was outraged when fellow panelist and former JAG officer Tom Kenniff observed that he had been listening to a lot of psychobabble and evasions about Maj. Hasan's motives.
A shocked Dr. Phil, appalled that the guest had publicly mentioned Maj. Hasan's Islamic identity, went on to present what was, in essence, the case for Maj. Hasan as victim. Victim of deployment, of the Army, of the stresses of a new kind of terrible war unlike any other we have known. Unlike, can he have meant, the kind endured by those lucky Americans who fought and died at Iwo Jima, say, or the Ardennes?
It was the same case to be presented, in varying forms, by guest psychologists, the media, and a representative or two from the military, for days on end.
The quality and thrust of this argument was best captured by the impassioned Dr. Phil, who asked us to consider, "how far out of touch with reality do you have to be to kill your fellow Americans . . . this is not a well act." And how far out of touch with reality is such a question, one asks in return—not only of Dr. Phil, but of the legions of commentators like him immersed in the labyrinths of motive hunting even as the details of Maj. Hasan's proclivities became ever clearer and more ominous.
To kill your fellow Americans—as many as possible, unarmed and in the most helpless of circumstances, while shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is great), requires, of course, only murderous hatred—the sort of mindset that regularly eludes the Dr. Phils of our world as the motive for mass murder of this kind.
As the meditations on Maj. Hasan's motives rolled on, "fear of deployment" has served as a major theme—one announced as fact in the headline for the New York Times's front-page story: "Told of War Horror, Gunman Feared Deployment." The authority for this intelligence? The perpetrator's cousin. No story could have better suited that newspaper's ongoing preoccupation with the theme of madness in our fighting men, and the deadly horrors of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, than this story of a victim of war pressures gone berserk. The one fly in the ointment—Maj. Hasan had of course seen no war, and no combat.
Still, with a bit of stretching, adherents of Maj. Hasan-as-war-victim theme found a substitute of sorts—namely the fears allegedly provoked in him by his exposure, as an army psychologist, to the stories of men who had been deployed. The thesis then: Maj. Hasan's mental stress, provoked by the suffering of Americans who had been in combat, caused him to go out and butcher as many of these soldiers as he could. Let's try putting that one before a jury.
By Sunday morning, Gen. George Casey Jr., Army chief of staff, confronted questions put to him by ABC's George Stephanopolous—among them the matter of the complaints about Maj. Hasan's anti-American tirades that were made by fellow students in military classes, as well as other danger signs ignored by officials when they were reported, apparently for fear of offense to a Muslim member of the military.
These were speculations, Gen. Casey repeatedly cautioned. We need to be very careful, he explained, "We are a very diverse army." Mr. Stephanopolous then helpfully summarized matters: This case then was either a case of premeditated terror—or the man just snapped.
The general was not about to address such questions. He was there to recite the required pieties, and describe the military priorities . . . which are, it appears, a concern above all for the sensitivities of a diverse army, a concern so great as to render even the mention of salient facts out of order, as "speculation.'" "This terrible event," Gen. Casey noted, "would be an even greater tragedy if our diversity becomes a casualty."
To hear this, and numerous other such pronouncements of recent days, was to be reminded of all those witnesses to the suspicious behavior of the 9/11 hijackers who held their tongues for fear of being charged with discrimination. It has taken Maj. Hasan, and the fantastic efforts to explain away his act of bloody hatred, to bring home how much less capable we are of recognizing the dangers confronting us than we were even before September 11.
Wall St Journal only one willing to say what's obvious
The tide of pronouncements and ruminations pointing to every cause for this event other than the one obvious to everyone in the rational world continues apace. Commentators, reporters, psychologists and, indeed, army spokesmen continue to warn portentously, "We don't yet know the motive for the shootings."
What a puzzle this piece of vacuity must be to audiences hearing it, some, no doubt, with outrage. To those not terrorized by fear of offending Muslim sensitivities, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's motive was instantly clear: It was an act of terrorism by a man with a record of expressing virulent, anti-American, pro-jihadist sentiments. All were conspicuous signs of danger his Army superiors chose to ignore.
What is hard to ignore, now, is the growing derangement on all matters involving terrorism and Muslim sensitivities. Its chief symptoms: a palpitating fear of discomfiting facts and a willingness to discard those facts and embrace the richest possible variety of ludicrous theories as to the motives behind an act of Islamic terrorism. All this we have seen before but never in such naked form. I disagree with your conclusion that News Corporation has a better handle on the investigation than the U.S. Army, and that the army is engaged actively in a disinformation campaign.
I didn't conclude that. You did.
incarcerated
11-10-2009, 04:33
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573547,00.html
Fort Hood Suspect Warned of Muslim Threat Within Military
Tuesday, November 10, 2009
The Army psychiatrist suspected of killing 13 people at Fort Hood reportedly warned senior Army physicians in 2007 that the military should allow Muslim soldiers be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars to avoid "adverse events."
According to The Washington Post, Major Nidal Malik Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic during his senior year as a psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Medical Center.
Instead, Hasan lectured his supervisors and two dozen mental health staff members on Islam, homicide bombings and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting against other Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.
A source who attended the presentation told the paper, "It was really strange. The senior doctors looked really upset."
The Powerpoint, entitled, "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military," consisted of 50 slides, according to a copy obtained by the Post.
"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," Hasan said in the presentation.
On the final slide, labeled "Recommendation," Hasan wrote: "Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as 'Conscientious objectors' to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events."
An Army spokesman told the Post Monday night he was unaware of the presentation, and a Walter Reed spokesman declined comment.
The warning signs were all there: the justification of homicide bombings; the spewing of anti-American hatred; the efforts to reach Al Qaeda ...
But the U.S. military treated Hasan with kid gloves, even after giving him a poor performance review. And though he was on the radar screen of at least one U.S. intelligence agency, no action was taken that might have prevented the Army psychiatrist from allegedly gunning down 13 people and wounding 29 others in the Fort Hood massacre last week.
"There were definitely clear indications that Hasan's loyalties were not with America," Lt. Col. Val Finnell, Hasan's classmate at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., told FoxNews.com in an exclusive interview. He and Hasan were students in the school's public health master's degree program from 2007-2008.
"There were all sorts of ... comments made throughout the year that made me question his loyalty to the United States, but nothing was done," said Finnell, who recalled one class during which Hasan gave a presentation justifying homicide bombings.
"The issue here is that there's a political correctness climate in the military. They don't want to say anything because it would be considered questioning somebody's religious belief, or they're afraid of an equal opportunity lawsuit.
"I want to be clear that this wasn't about anyone questioning his religious views. It is different when you are a civilian than when you are a military officer," said Finnell, who is a physician at the Los Angeles Air Force Base.
"When you are in the military and you start making comments that are seditious, when you say you believe something other than your oath of office — someone needed to say why is this guy saying this stuff.
"He was a lightning rod. He made his views known and he was very vocal, he had extremely radical jihadist views," Finnell said. "When you're a military officer you take an oath to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic.
"They should've confronted him — our professors, officers — but they were too concerned about being politically correct."
Finnell said the warning signs were clear to many, not just classmates. Faculty members, including many high-ranking military officers, witnessed firsthand his anti-Americanism, he said.
Finnell recalled Hasan telling his classmates and professors, "I'm a Muslim first and I hold the Shariah, the Islamic Law, before the United States Constitution."
He recalled one time when his classmates were giving presentations in an environmental health class on topics like soil and water contamination and the effects of mold. When it was Hasan's turn, he said, he got up in front of the class and began to speak about his chosen topic, "Is the War on Terror a war on Islam?"
Finnell says he raised his hand. "I asked the professor, "What does this topic have to do with environmental health?"
"When he was challenged on his views, Hasan became visibly upset. He became sweaty, he was emotional."
But despite questioning from the other students, Finnell said, the professor allowed Hasan to continue. He said Hasan's anti-American vitriol continued for two years as he worked toward his degree in public health.
There were even more warning signs that might have alerted the Army in recent months:
— In the days and weeks before the shooting, Hasan voiced his objections to Muslims fighting the war on terror to members of his mosque, the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen. Congregants at the mosque said he voiced his objections to Muslims serving in the U.S. military and to his impending deployment to Afghanistan.
— Over the summer, Hasan's comments led Osman Danquah, co-founder of the mosque, to recommend that it deny Hasan's request to become a lay Muslim leader at Fort Hood, the Associated Press reported.
— In the months before Thursday's shooting Hasan tried reaching out to people associated with Al Qaeda — and did so under the watchful eye of at least one U.S. intelligence agency. An intelligence official told FOXNews.com that "Hasan was on our radar for months."
On Sunday Sen. Joe Lieberman announced his intention to lead a congressional investigation into the Fort Hood murders, saying there were "strong warning signs" that Hasan was an "Islamic extremist."
"The U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance. He should have been gone," said Lieberman, who is chairman of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
In interviews Sunday, Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey stressed that it was too early in the investigation to know whether these warnings signs could have spared the lives of the 13 killed, dismissing earlier reports about such signs as "speculation" based on anecdotes. "I don't want to say that we missed it," he said.
Finnell said that once Hasan was identified as the suspect in Thursday's massacre, he reached out to the Army to tell them about his experiences with Hasan.
This time, he said, "They listened."
Fox News' Jana Winter contributed to this report.
kimberly
11-10-2009, 08:19
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33819877/ns/us_news-washington_post/ (Note: Different info)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/11/10/GA2009111000920.html?sid=ST2009110903704 (This is 'Hasan on Islam'. His presentation and slideshow.)
The Army psychiatrist believed to have killed 13 people at Fort Hood warned a roomful of senior Army physicians a year and a half ago that to avoid "adverse events," the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars against other Muslims.
As a senior-year psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Maj. Nidal M. Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic of his choosing as a culminating exercise of the residency program.
Instead, in late June 2007, he stood before his supervisors and about 25 other mental health staff members and lectured on Islam, suicide bombers and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting in the Muslim countries of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a copy of the presentation obtained by The Washington Post.
"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," he said in the presentation.
"It was really strange," said one staff member who attended the presentation and spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the investigation of Hasan. "The senior doctors looked really upset" at the end. These medical presentations occurred each Wednesday afternoon, and other students had lectured on new medications and treatment of specific mental illnesses.
An Army spokesman said Monday night he was unaware of the presentation, and a Walter Reed spokesman declined to comment. It is unclear whether anyone in attendance reported the briefing to counterintelligence or law enforcement authorities whose job it is to identify threats from within the military ranks.
Hasan spent six years at Walter Reed as an intern, resident and fellow beginning in 2003. He was transferred to Fort Hood as a practicing psychiatrist in July and was set to leave soon for Afghanistan. According to a relative, he had asked not to be deployed. It is not known whether he ever sought conscientious-objector status.
Maj. Gen. Gina S. Farrisee, the Army's personnel chief, said in an interview Monday that because of the investigation, she and other Army officials could not discuss whether Hasan had officially asked to quit the service or not to be deployed. However, she and another Army official said it would be highly unusual for officers with Hasan's rank and medical training to be allowed to resign, given their service obligation.
'Potential implications'
Investigators are examining Hasan's religious beliefs, whether he harbored extremist views, and whether he was in contact with others who may have encouraged violence against U.S. troops.
The title of Hasan's PowerPoint presentation was "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military." It consisted of 50 slides. In one slide, Hasan described the presentation's objectives as identifying "what the Koran inculcates in the minds of Muslims and the potential implications this may have for the U.S. military."
He also sought to "describe the nature of the religious conflicts that Muslims" who serve in the U.S. military may have and to persuade the Army to identify these individuals.
Other slides delved into the history of Islam, its tenets, statistics about the number of Muslims in the military, and explanations of "offensive jihad," or holy war.
Another slide suggested ways to draw out Muslim troops: "It must be hard for you to balance Islamic beliefs that might be conflicting with current war; feelings of guilt; Is it what you expected."
Hasan's presentation lasted about an hour. It is unclear whether he read out loud every point on each slide. If typical procedures were followed, his adviser would have supervised the development of his project, said people familiar with the practice.
The final three slides indicate that Hasan referred to Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, suicide bombers and Iran.
Under a slide titled "Comments," he wrote: "If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc." [sic]
The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"
Under the "Conclusions" page, Hasan wrote that "Fighting to establish an Islamic State to please God, even by force, is condoned by the Islam," and that "Muslim Soldiers should not serve in any capacity that renders them at risk to hurting/killing believers unjustly — will vary!"
The final page, labeled "Recommendation," contained only one suggestion:
"Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as 'Conscientious objectors' to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events."
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Don't you wonder why muslims join the United States Military at all? If it is so very offending to their core beliefs, why enter into a VOLUNTARY service that is so contrary? Our issues with mid-east countries are not new and anyone entering the armed services in ANY capacity certainly knows this.
On their app. they should state: 'I want to wear the uniform, but I don't want to have to do my job.'
Obama went golfing
Bush went to the hospitals to visit the wounded
Obama says give Hasan the benefit of the doubt
Bush would most likely say string him up and make an example of him.
Hmmm
Mr. Hollywood has some learnin' to do.
I think everyone needs to take a step back, as far as Obama showing up at Ft Hood. In my personal opinion, the absolute LAST thing that base needed was to have Obama show up there right after the attack. They had enough going on without having to worry about the added headache of Secret Service etc. I have been on a base that had to deal with a last minute drop in of the President and it consumes a whole lot of senior people's time that would be better utilized in dealing with the families, the injured etc...
I remember President Bush took a whole lot of flack in the news when the P-3 Crew that emergency landed in China, were brought home, and he wasn't there to greet them. He said everyone had enough to worry about, he didn't want to add to it, and I praised him for that view.
We may not like Obama very much, but there is more than enough things we can harp on him about, I don't think him not showing up at Ft Hood is one of them. I think it was a good call. My .02 worth
Utah Bob
11-10-2009, 08:39
Agreed.
kimberly
11-10-2009, 08:46
I think everyone needs to take a step back, as far as Obama showing up at Ft Hood. In my personal opinion, the absolute LAST thing that base needed was to have Obama show up there right after the attack. They had enough going on without having to worry about the added headache of Secret Service etc. I have been on a base that had to deal with a last minute drop in of the President and it consumes a whole lot of senior people's time that would be better utilized in dealing with the families, the injured etc...
I remember President Bush took a whole lot of flack in the news when the P-3 Crew that emergency landed in China, were brought home, and he wasn't there to greet them. He said everyone had enough to worry about, he didn't want to add to it, and I praised him for that view.
We may not like Obama very much, but there is more than enough things we can harp on him about, I don't think him not showing up at Ft Hood is one of them. I think it was a good call. My .02 worth
I don't think showing up at Fort Hood is what people expect. It's the way he is handling himself is what I have a gripe with. His priorities, demeanor and what he says could use a wakeup call.
The Reaper
11-10-2009, 09:04
I don't think showing up at Fort Hood is what people expect. It's the way he is handling himself is what I have a gripe with. His priorities, demeanor and what he says could use a wakeup call.
You mean like praising conference attendees, mistaking a Medal of Freedom for a Medal of Honor recipient, and offering shout-outs to his buds for 2:30 before mentioning 43 casualties of a Muslim terrorist?
TR
The President is the Commander in Chief.
The CinC should be at the memorial service. Lets see the focus of what he says. Does it stay in the "memorial tone", does it become a lecture on how we should behave with Muslims or does it hit a number of "I" spots?
We'll see - I would hope it stays in the "memorial tone".
But thats just me.
You mean like praising conference attendees, mistaking a Medal of Freedom for a Medal of Honor recipient, and offering shout-outs to his buds for 2:30 before mentioning 43 casualties of a Muslim terrorist?
TR
Bingo..........
AFChick
You are right and he did not need to go as far as I am concerned.
He did not do him self any good by how he started it out.......Conf, Golf, etc....
Bingo..........
AFChick
You are right and he did not need to go as far as I am concerned.
He did not do him self any good by how he started it out.......Conf, Golf, etc....
I agreee wholeheartedly. I don't see it getting much better, unfortunately:mad: