View Full Version : How do you carry it?
NousDefionsDoc
07-19-2004, 11:37
What's your method of carry?
Sacamuelas
07-19-2004, 12:16
My vote... strong side hip. :D
Strong side hip. I'm not very fond of thigh rigs.
Crossdraw for drivers at times.
Strong side hip, Preferrably IWB
Smokin Joe
07-19-2004, 12:50
Strong side hip, same as duty belt.....muscle memory.
Guy's arguments against thigh rigs have had a profound impact and caused me to take a good look at how I carry a sidearm at work. I have since then went and bought a slightly dropped holster, more low hip vs thigh just to accomodate the draw when in full kit.
NousDefionsDoc
07-19-2004, 15:51
What arguments? Where?
Strong side hip although a spare holster on the main line vest/armor is great for vehicular work and/or retaining a teammate's weapon should it be dropped.
Team Sergeant
07-19-2004, 17:15
Desert Storm, tanker holster, locked and loaded safety off.
I also like the thigh rigs for serious work. It's out of the way until I have a requirement for a handgun.
NousDefionsDoc
07-19-2004, 17:22
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
Desert Storm, tanker holster, locked and loaded safety off.
Oh God! Tanker Boy is going to have a field day with this one. Couldn't have called it a "Special Operations Green Beret Chest Mounted Weapon Transport Device"? Noooooo! Had to call it a tanker holster! DAMN! LOL
Everyday carry- IWB
Working uniform- G code SOC Rig holster worn with a slight drop to clear body armor
Both worn strong side hip, roughly in the same area
The Reaper
07-19-2004, 20:32
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Oh God! Tanker Boy is going to have a field day with this one. Couldn't have called it a "Special Operations Green Beret Chest Mounted Weapon Transport Device"? Noooooo! Had to call it a tanker holster! DAMN! LOL
Don't go gettin' the "Death Before Dismount" crowd spun up again.
TR
Ambush Master
07-19-2004, 21:07
IWB, strong side hip for the large ones, Shirt/Vest Pocket for the keep-em duckin's !!:D
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
What arguments? Where?
A discussion on socnet a while back. His complaints/points about most thigh rigs being a pain in the ass to run with enlightened me. Most of the rigs that I had at work were too loose irregardless of how much you cranked down the various straps.
I'm a big fan of if it looks high speed it probably is. Have yet to see a Team Sergeant looking like sloppy the junk wagon, know what I mean?
AngelsSix
07-20-2004, 07:45
Strong side high ride custom fitted holster.
Strong side hip. Definately not the thigh rig. I found that out the hard way and swore I will never wear one again. When its time to hall ass I dont want anything below my waist. Im not as tall and handsome like TR or Guy so I need to compensate my height with Speed and VOA.
LarV
No paddle holster either.:D
Smokin Joe
07-20-2004, 08:06
Originally posted by Guy
No paddle holster either.:D
I take it you have experienced drawing the entire holster with your pistol as well.
I looked at my sights thought what the hell is on my gun. Ho Sh*t thats my holster. First and only time I ever wore a paddle holster. :D
NousDefionsDoc
07-20-2004, 08:33
Strong-side hip.
The thigh holster is a specialty tool for wearing with armor.
I also agree with crossdraw for vehicles.
Strong side hip. Back up gun in holster on body armor. In civvies an IWB on strong side (during the week and a half of summer) or belt slide strong side (for our other season).
Stateside - Strongside Hip
Iraq - Far right side of a Wasatch chest rig.
P
NousDefionsDoc
07-29-2004, 21:26
What's up Poly? Good to see you here. Hope all is well.
In light of the recent murders of the LEO's in Washington, and given how much time people spend in cars or seated at restaurants, etc.. What do you gentlemen think of cross draw carry? Isn't accessibility as important as retention? This is in no way a criticism or arm chair quarterbacking. I am curious what the reasoning behind the nearly unanimous strong side hip carry is.
Warrior-Mentor
12-03-2009, 14:39
Strong side hip.
Should have had options for Thigh Rig and Center Chest. ;)
Condition 1, in my hand and ready.
The Reaper
12-03-2009, 15:04
I am curious what the reasoning behind the nearly unanimous strong side hip carry is.
Have you carried cross-draw before?
How do you plan to conceal ANY handgun carried in that manner year round?
TR
Have you carried cross-draw before?
How do you plan to conceal ANY handgun carried in that manner year round?
TR
And I'll add the photo-safari vest is not an option.
Mgrayfox
12-03-2009, 15:42
I carry strong side hip IWB (.45) and a baby Glock (.40) on my ankle. In the summer months, I just carry the baby Glock in my ankle holster. FYI as ugly as my legs are now, I don't wear shorts.
Have you carried cross-draw before?
How do you plan to conceal ANY handgun carried in that manner year round?
TR
No Sir,
I live in Northern California. Its easier to carry marijuana than a handgun here. I was asking because I did not know. My guns leave the house to go to the range and I have not had to deal with the logistics of daily carry. Drawing strong side hip from a seated position seemed awkward to me. I see your point though. thank you for the insight.
mojaveman
12-03-2009, 15:59
The only time that I carry is when I'm at the range. My 92FS rides in an M-12 holster that is attached to an LC-2 equipment belt. Nothing high speed here.
GratefulCitizen
12-03-2009, 22:37
Strong side pocket, right above clip knife.
http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html
(Scroll down, holster grip)
For the big gun (1911 chambered for 10mm), it depends on how much time will be spent driving, duration away from base camp, climate, choice of clothing, etc.
-IWB strong side/appendix
-Thunderwear/smartcarry
-Kydex strong side hip with jacket or 5.11 vest
-Would get out shoulder holster if I still rode motorcycles (can't think of any other reason to ever try shoulder holsters again :rolleyes: )
Team Sergeant
12-04-2009, 10:28
Strong side pocket, right above clip knife.
http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html
(Scroll down, holster grip)
For the big gun (1911 chambered for 10mm), it depends on how much time will be spent driving, duration away from base camp, climate, choice of clothing, etc.
-IWB strong side/appendix
-Thunderwear/smartcarry
-Kydex strong side hip with jacket or 5.11 vest
-Would get out shoulder holster if I still rode motorcycles (can't think of any other reason to ever try shoulder holsters again :rolleyes: )
Do you hit the individual with that "gun" to cause damage?:munchin
longrange1947
12-04-2009, 10:30
Strong side pocket, right above clip knife.
http://www.naaminis.com/magnum.html
(Scroll down, holster grip)
For the big gun (1911 chambered for 10mm), it depends on how much time will be spent driving, duration away from base camp, climate, choice of clothing, etc.
-IWB strong side/appendix
-Thunderwear/smartcarry
-Kydex strong side hip with jacket or 5.11 vest
-Would get out shoulder holster if I still rode motorcycles (can't think of any other reason to ever try shoulder holsters again :rolleyes: )
I too think that there is no single solution for a carry system. Thunderwear works great in some situations but I defy you to draw seated in your car. Leather Jackets with inside pocket/holster for motorcycle works well, shoulder holster makes me cringe. A simple 442, 360, or 340 Centennial carried in your pocket works well too. Of course in a car anything sucks and is why a lot of gluys place it in a secure accessible location in the car.
Another I like is the derringer in a "wallet", "Oh yes, here is my wallet, don't hurt me". :munchin
Just my 2 cents and I am late to the party here as I missed this some time ago.
Edited to add, stirring s**t up again Doc? :D
mark46th
12-04-2009, 13:56
Only carry when I am hunting pigs, nowadays. Right hip, high and a little back...It's a Ruger .357 mag SS Security Six w/4"barrel. it's a little bulky so I like to keep it back out of the way.
Buffalobob
12-04-2009, 15:00
Well, the gun is question is a 460 S&W with an 8 3/4 barrel weighing in at 5 + pounds. I use a little Radio Flyer red wagon to haul it around in except sometimes I use a Galco Kodiak half shoulder harness half cross draw harness. It is a strange contraption but it keeps it out of the way of your back pack and away from your rifle stock.
Blitzzz (RIP)
12-04-2009, 19:15
My vote went out before I read any posts to remain unswayed. I've a IWB Kydex cross draw for my Walther P99QA. Carries fine allows me the ease of access and I don't have to "shift it around to drive. No so uncomfortable to drive with, and I practice drawing from the vehicle. I am willing to try other types but presently I practiced with this.
Triman19
12-04-2009, 22:08
Its quick and there when I need it.
GratefulCitizen
12-04-2009, 22:22
Do you hit the individual with that "gun" to cause damage?:munchin
Prefer the big one, but figure a pop gun point-blank at the snot locker is better than no gun at all.
Can't always carry the big one.
HowardCohodas
12-05-2009, 01:13
EDC Primary - SmartCarry - Over my junk (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj274/HowardCohodas/Gun%20Stuff/MP45FS-Procyon-SmartCarry.jpg)
EDC BUG - DeSantis Super Fly - Weak side front pants pocket (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj274/HowardCohodas/Gun%20Stuff/LCP%20Stuff/BUGandLight.png)
Driving - ClipDraw - Cross draw (http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj274/HowardCohodas/Gun%20Stuff/MP45FS-Procyon-Side.jpg)
Utah Bob
12-06-2009, 08:03
Depends o n what I'm carrying. I've used ankle holsters for BU guns,Boot Holsters, IWB, pancakes, Kydex and just about everything else. I could never get used to a shoulder holster. No wonder women don't like bras.
Nowadays I carry a 1911 in a crossdraw or a .380 strongside in holsters I made myself.
Ken Brock
12-06-2009, 09:10
Strong side hip, Preferrably IWB
yep, that's how I carry both on and off duty
I wear a thigh rig if we have to do a SWAT operation but that's about it
At a local gun shop, I over heard a kid, (19 yrs.), ask the clerk if he could purchase an ankle holster for a Desert Eagle .50 cal.
I saw three near me blow coffee out their noses.
Streck-Fu
12-07-2009, 10:07
I could never get used to a shoulder holster. No wonder women don't like bras.
You may be wearing wrong....:cool:
Shoulder holsters feel too strange to me as well and too many of them are horizontal. I am not comfortable waving my muzzle around even if covered. Especially in the car with my sons in the back seat. If I were to ever carry a shoulder holster, it would be a vertical so just in case it ever does discharge (however unlikely that may be) I don't send a round downrange.
I've been carrying for about 6 years and prefer strong side at about 4 o'clock.
I have a IWB Desantis holster for my 4" Springfield XD in 9mm and a Kydex paddle holster for OWB (I have not had an issue with this following the weapon when drawn ....yet). I prefer the paddle holsters over pancake or belt slide in case I ever have to remove the weapon; I won't have to undress to remove the holster and I don;t like keeping the weapon out of a holster if away from the safe.
The majority of the time, I carry IWB unless I have a jacket or large shirt.
longrange1947
12-07-2009, 14:08
At a local gun shop, I over heard a kid, (19 yrs.), ask the clerk if he could purchase an ankle holster for a Desert Eagle .50 cal.
I saw three near me blow coffee out their noses.
And I just blew coffee through my nose.
Used the clip on my officers model 45 for a while and never got used to it so removed it.
Will stay with the simple .38 in the pocket, jam in your belly and squeeze the trigger a couple times style rig. :D
On the that little .22, a shot in each eye is a day ender. :munchin
mark46th
12-07-2009, 20:15
I would have handed him a roll of duct tape and said have at it!
Trip_Wire (RIP)
12-10-2009, 16:48
And I just blew coffee through my nose.
Used the clip on my officers model 45 for a while and never got used to it so removed it.
Will stay with the simple .38 in the pocket, jam in your belly and squeeze the trigger a couple times style rig. :D
On the that little .22, a shot in each eye is a day ender. :munchin
When I'm in casual dress I usually carry my Glock 27 in a regular fanny pack.
If I have to dress up, or wear something that the FP looks bad with, I switch to my S&W 442 revolver and the Kramer pocket holster.
BTW: The Kramer Pocket holster is a great holster for those small revolvers! They also have a great line of other holsters as well.
Used to have an Uncle Mikes IWB gun sock, but wasn't confident carrying chambered so got a new rig. Strongside Hip IWB Bladetech kydex for a G22. It's kind of a high riding IWB and suprisingly doesn't print too much. I'm 5'9" 185lbs and was somewhat concerned about that when I started carrying a full frame gun, but it hasn't been an issue. Still, thinking about moving down to a G23. . .
longrange1947
12-10-2009, 21:07
.....................
If I have to dress up, or wear something that the FP looks bad with, I switch to my S&W 442 revolver and the Kramer pocket holster.
BTW: The Kramer Pocket holster is a great holster for those small revolvers! They also have a great line of other holsters as well.
I was looking at those and wondered how they carried. Thanks I will have a second look.
Thunder wear is great but a I have a high fear of de-nutting myself. :D
HowardCohodas
12-10-2009, 21:23
I was looking at those and wondered how they carried. Thanks I will have a second look.
Thunder wear is great but a I have a high fear of de-nutting myself. :D
SmartCarry is much better made than ThunderWear.
Except for the smallest handgun, the muzzle is well below the jewels.
I carry my Browning Hi Power in a CompTac Minotaur IWB holster, strong side hip. Have a Surefire E2D Defender weak side pocket for close encounters and an Emerson CQC-11 strong side pocket, in case I have to cut someone off of me.
The BHP conceals remarkably well in the Minotaur, and the holster supports so well I could easily forget I was wearing it. (Providing I had a MASSIVE failure in SA.)
Everyday carry- IWB 45 using a Cross Breed holster on my strong side hip at about the 3:00 position.
When I'm more casual (family get togethers where I dress nicely) I carry a small Ruger LCP in a wallet holster in my right rear pocket. It's a small round but it's better than nothing and I sure don't use hollow points. With that round I need all the penetration I can get if it's ever needed.
The Reaper
12-10-2009, 21:39
FYI, do not get caught using a wallet holster that is designed so that you can shoot from.
The BATF has categorized those as an AOW (like the briefcase guns) and it requires a Form 4, believe it or not.
TR
FYI, do not get caught using a wallet holster that is designed so that you can shoot from.
The BATF has categorized those as an AOW (like the briefcase guns) and it requires a Form 4, believe it or not.
TR
Yep,
There is one however that is legal as the complete slide is exposed.
It's this one: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gunnersecurity.com/Images/holster-kelTec-w-side.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gunnersecurity.com/holster-Kel_Tek_wallet-1.htm&usg=__02zff4futzDlnn87PwZe5P-hDHM=&h=233&w=323&sz=79&hl=en&start=9&um=1&tbnid=2lmoDanGOK_iPM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3DwALLET%2BHOLSTER%26hl%3Den%26client%3 Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
Mine is an Uncle George holster (he only makes them for the LCP) and you cannot shoot from it.
http://unclegeorgeswalletholster.com/images/gun%20in%20holster%202.jpg
OK, laugh if you will, but.......:o
In a cell phone case. Actually have two cell phone cases that are oversized, suitable also for the small radios that you see on construction sites. One is marked "Husky" and one is Skil. Standard in shape, these are heavy nylon cases that are "obviously" for cell phones. One fits my Keltec P11 nicely, the other my P3AT (and I suspect, a Ruger LCP).
On each the bottom 4-5 inches, when left exposed, causes no alarm. It can be worn outside with just a couple of inches of t-shirt cover over the actual grip of the weapon. The way the straps on the back are designed, the weapon can be carried with the muzzle vertical or horizontal.
With physical limitations, ( a tag in the shoulder in RVN), a weapon on my right hip is nearly useless if I'm sitting down.
I can make a quick change, and mount the case at 10-11 o'clock with the muzzle pointed at the drivers door if I'm driving through an area where both my face and my age make me appear a victim. I can handle cross-draw while seated.
Besides, for 6 bucks, at Home Depot or Lowes, cutting one up to experiment is no big deal :)
Rob_0811
12-11-2009, 12:11
strong side hip in a Kramer #3 Horsehide IWB or a Raven concealment if carrying OWB.
Sometimes I carry SOB if i wear a fitted shirt so I don't print as much.
tom kelly
12-11-2009, 21:07
Mitch Rosen IWB Strong Side for a 1911 5 inch right hand 1.1/2 inch loop for a 40 inch belt... Pricey but worth the money. Also have a magazine carrier worn on the left side, bullets forward....tom kelly
Detonics
12-12-2009, 02:31
Alessi DOJ strong side primary. Titanium snubby in a front pocket alternatively.
Non-military or SWAT folks using thigh rigs make me giggle. Some of our courthouse marshals go for that affectation. Closest to "high-speed, low drag" they get is if they slip on wet marble tile.
Inside the wasteband for concealed carry with 4 inch or longer barrels with left handed folder in front left or rear left pockets, strong side, no holster, with Kramer double horsehide belt through pant belt loops.
I don't carry handcuffs and am not worried about a quick one handed reholster. Drawer full of Mitch Rosen, assorted Kydex, Milt Sparks, Kramer and custom holsters but Mexican carry works just fine for my build.
I dress around which ever concealed handgun I carry in accordance with climate or social occasion.
Surf n Turf
12-12-2009, 17:21
BHP / 45 IWB Strong Side, with a Milt Sparks #1 Heritage
SW60 handy when driving
SnT
With the full sized 40, weak side, inside the pants cross draw. With the 357 titanium, in a FOBUS on the strong side hip. GROG
Comp-tac minotaur for IWB concealment of my 1911 during the warmer months. Galco Yaqui Paddle Holster for when I wear an over garment. I've never had a problem drawing the holster but I'll probably move to something like a Bianchi Minimalist. I also have a Serpa i never use.
+1 on the Comp Tac. I use the CTAC myself as the MTAC or Minatuor models have the leather which makes it hot in the summer time for myself. I personally am not bothered by the kydex only.
For fullsized guns I like phantom belt holsters OWB. You can have it IWB but the comp tac holsters are a smoother draw.
Now if I could just stop guys I know from carrying with their pistols stuck in their belt with the muzzle in their rear pocket. It's like amateur hour 2009, especially for people that know better. At least buy a $4 uncle mikes please.
Strong side hip, and after 11-29-09 I always carry. I live in Kent Wa. and we have had 6 Police Officers targeted and 5 killed in the last 2 months.
Blue
"Pret, Toujours Pret"
Animal8526
12-19-2009, 19:27
Strong side hip for fullsize, always. Strong side pocket when carrying the subcompacts. Sometimes back pocket for the small .380's, if that's all I can carry for whatever reason.
IWB right hand side under most circumstances, OWB right side if carrying with taclight mounted. USP .45 T.
Justaguy
12-23-2009, 13:07
Strong side hip for the Primary...
"Angry Cricket" (kel-tec) in a pocket holster in the off hand side pocket. Alot is to be said for carrying a back-up in the off-hand side pocket. I have found myself with my hand on that little guy, and still looking completely casual and relaxed. No draw technique in the world is faster than having your gun already in your hand (even if it is just your back-up) if trouble looks imminent.
On another note, having the back-up on the off-hand side could come in handy if your strong side hand is injured/tackled to the ground/pressed against a car door/etc. Just a thought.
HowardCohodas
12-23-2009, 13:30
"Angry Cricket" (kel-tec) in a pocket holster in the off hand side pocket. Alot is to be said for carrying a back-up in the off-hand side pocket. I have found myself with my hand on that little guy, and still looking completely casual and relaxed. No draw technique in the world is faster than having your gun already in your hand (even if it is just your back-up) if trouble looks imminent.
On another note, having the back-up on the off-hand side could come in handy if your strong side hand is injured/tackled to the ground/pressed against a car door/etc. Just a thought.
Very well said. That's exactly what I teach.
ApacheIP
01-17-2010, 20:38
Flying in the AH-64 I had an Uncle Mikes shoulder rig. It fit great through the left shoulder opening of the survival vest. It was perfect for the .38 peashooter. (Yes I know how long ago that was) When we were issued the M-9 I was still able to use the same UM.
When I hunt in the Low Country I use the same holster toting a Taurus .22 revolver loaded with snake shot for obvious reasons. Hate snakes.
Mostly I carry a Glock 19 strong side hip in a Galco leather holster. Otherwise it is carried in my day pack or my computer bag in a cool little holster velcroed to an inside pocket.
DJ Urbanovsky
01-19-2010, 12:28
Me, a G23, either in a bag or appendix carry. I switch between two holsters, both self made - Kydex and a leather belt slide. Both holster designs are adequate, but there are some tweaks I'll do when I make myself new ones (definitely high on my to-do list). Also still searching for the right bag.
The only thing I really don't like about appendix carry is having the muzzle pointing at my thigh/junk. Presentation of the gun for me seems faster than strong side hip, and it's easier to get at when seated. I may switch back to strong side hip, though.
I'd really prefer a thigh rig, but that's way to high profile for a civilian like me. I don't want or need the attention.
If I'm carrying my S&W .40 I'll carry on my strong side hip or inside my waste band. If I am carrying my Kel-Tec .32, which I carry more often due to it's small size, I'll just put it in my pants pocket.
Cold Blooded
01-20-2010, 04:20
I carry my M&P compact .40 IWB on my right hip in the vicinity of 4 o'clock and my Kel Tec P-3AT in my left front pocket. I have found that while in my truck the Kel Tec has become my primary because I can slip it between my left leg and the seat. This makes it more accessible than the M&P in the center console.
triQshot
01-20-2010, 07:07
I carry on the strong side at 7. In line with my wallet. I carry a full size H&K USP .45. I will carry it in my Kramer holster when it arrives...(must be good quality, ordered it on Nov 17th, will ship end of this month) :lifter
When in the vehicle, I travel with a double barrel .410 pistol in the center console.
Destrier
01-20-2010, 08:08
Have tried various holsters over the years as we all have. For comfort and versatility, I ended up utilizing a thunderwear holster, I do not use it front carry typically however, with it I carry my sig 220 strongside.
IWB Crossbreed holster for Kimber 45
Blitzzz (RIP)
01-20-2010, 08:31
http://www.concealedcomfort.com/video.shtml
Really unique set up. May limit speed some,but carry is very concealable.
mike-munich
02-02-2010, 04:02
off duty CZ75 with a inside holster (100 professional from bianchi).
Drusagas
02-07-2010, 23:31
Crossbreed holster IWB - XD9 at the 5-5:30 position. Seems to be best for all around concealability for me.
Sold my XD, though, and now have a HK USP 9 and am going to try both Crossbreed's IWB and OWB to see which works best.
Martinjmpr
02-23-2010, 12:20
On those rare occasions that I carry it's a Galco IWB positioned at about 5 o'clock. I try to cant the grip forward a bit for more comfort. It's still not terribly comfortable when sitting in the car, though, as my seat tends to wrap around and press the pistol up against my back. Don't know if there's a solution to that or if people just get used to it.
Weapon is a G23 with a Storm Lake 9mm conversion barrel and G19 mags, so for all intents and purposes, a G19.
Glock 19 IWB just forward of kidney area for off duty.
KarlDESU
02-23-2010, 20:19
For duty work, my Glock 19 rides in a safariland 6004 with the new hood and retention system (can't recall the new mod #) just slightly below the hip, not quite mid thigh. For off-duty, I carry a S&W 640 IWB forward of my strong side. This facilitates draw from seated or a quick presentation from under my "belt roof"..... 19 yrs have taught me that carrying concealed doesn't always mean invisible. I have made many a "gun collar" by observing the imprint of a gun outlined by too tight a garment. Holster I use is a custom leather pouch designed to just keep the grip slightly above the belt line. Thanks for all you QP's do. My brother is a team Sgt in 3SFG and I appreciate all you do for us. Stay safe and thanks for taking over the fight from us in NYC.
Never Forget... 9/11/01
Downrange in Kit I use a dropleg rig that I modified to ride high on my gunbelt, just low enough to clear my armor.
At home I use either a IWB or Belt slide postioned in about the same place becasue of muscle memory. I also have a couple of paddle holsters for the quick trips to the corner store.
I utilize the strong side hip method, however instead of it being right on the side I have my holster going over the front part of my leg. It work's better for me and decreased my draw time. It may just be my dexterity or muscle memory but it works. I originally got the idea from a friend of mine that works for Honolulu SSD. He recommended it because he keeps his Taser and secondary weapon on one drop leg holster panel. he said it helps him so I gave it a try.
CHRISTIN
03-24-2010, 15:11
Strong side hip... cocked and locked 1911 Govt. Model in a Kramer holster.
Peace Frog
05-05-2010, 12:12
Glock 33 strong side hip/Galco SkyOps IWB tuckable.
Has anyone tried the IWB sheepskin clip by Kramer?
arizonaguide
06-02-2010, 22:46
The Blackhawk Serpa (pancake, for use with Arizona Shorts) is now part of the Snubby.
It is my bedside safety for the little smitty, as well as my very comfortable and secure carry rig. It is now a part of the revolver. :)
I continually see "Muscle Memory" creep into dialogue regarding motion and conditioning, just not here but other threads as well.
While many know Anatomy is to form and Physiology is to function, I'm of the impression that there is no memory cells is muscle. I think that a muscle can be conditioned to best function in a proper position, like throwing a major league ball 100MPH, Michael Jordan at the free-throw line, and Team Sergeant shooting the "second bullet" in the same hole as the first, (and maybe a few others like him), but really, "Muscle Memory"?
Memory is a function of brain activity. It is the brain that tells the body what to do. It is not the muscle telling the brain, "you are in the right position, so let me throw, if you don't let go, I will miss, time is running out, time, time, time, ok., you we were late, let's try again. I'm in the right position, can I go now, please?"
"Muscle Memory" is one of the many things left over from the 80's training regimes.
Doc(s), set the record straight,
Thanks, WD
PedOncoDoc
09-02-2010, 12:37
I continually see "Muscle Memory" creep into dialogue regarding motion and conditioning, just not here but other threads as well.
While many know Anatomy is to form and Physiology is to function, I'm of the impression that there is no memory cells is muscle. I think that a muscle can be conditioned to best function in a proper position, like throwing a major league ball 100MPH, Michael Jordan at the free-throw line, and Team Sergeant shooting the "second bullet" in the same hole as the first, (and maybe a few others like him), but really, "Muscle Memory"?
Memory is a function of brain activity. It is the brain that tells the body what to do. It is not the muscle telling the brain, "you are in the right position, so let me throw, if you don't let go, I will miss, time is running out, time, time, time, ok., you we were late, let's try again. I'm in the right position, can I go now, please?"
"Muscle Memory" is one of the many things left over from the 80's training regimes.
Doc(s), set the record straight,
Thanks, WD
The term "muscle memory" is a bit misleading as there is no "memory" in the muscle itself. The information from the muscles, tendons and ligaments about stretch, contraction, position and movement are all relayed to and processed by the brain. Through repetition, a repeated action can take less and less conscious effort although all of the signals are still being processed and controlled by the brain. When someone talks about muscle memory, they mean an action they can perform at will without significant conscious effort. When a movement is learned to this level, altering the movement feels "off" due to subconscious expectations of signals that should be received.
Walking is a wonderful example of "muscle memory" - we all had to learn to walk as toddlers and, after much practice, we don't have to actively focus on which foot to put forward and when, how far to lean forward, how long our stride should be, when to pick up the back foot, etc.
My $.02...anyone else have any other thoughts?
Team Sergeant
09-02-2010, 13:24
The term "muscle memory" is a bit misleading as there is no "memory" in the muscle itself. The information from the muscles, tendons and ligaments about stretch, contraction, position and movement are all relayed to and processed by the brain. Through repetition, a repeated action can take less and less conscious effort although all of the signals are still being processed and controlled by the brain. When someone talks about muscle memory, they mean an action they can perform at will without significant conscious effort. When a movement is learned to this level, altering the movement feels "off" due to subconscious expectations of signals that should be received.
Walking is a wonderful example of "muscle memory" - we all had to learn to walk as toddlers and, after much practice, we don't have to actively focus on which foot to put forward and when, how far to lean forward, how long our stride should be, when to pick up the back foot, etc.
My $.02...anyone else have any other thoughts?
Well said, you must be in the medical field.;)
The term "muscle memory" is a bit misleading as there is no "memory" in the muscle itself. The information from the muscles, tendons and ligaments about stretch, contraction, position and movement are all relayed to and processed by the brain. Through repetition, a repeated action can take less and less conscious effort although all of the signals are still being processed and controlled by the brain. When someone talks about muscle memory, they mean an action they can perform at will without significant conscious effort. When a movement is learned to this level, altering the movement feels "off" due to subconscious expectations of signals that should be received.
Walking is a wonderful example of "muscle memory" - we all had to learn to walk as toddlers and, after much practice, we don't have to actively focus on which foot to put forward and when, how far to lean forward, how long our stride should be, when to pick up the back foot, etc.
My $.02...anyone else have any other thoughts?
I concur, I guess my question was rhetorical. "Muscle Memory" is one of those terms that I wish would just go away. I see trainers who while pointing at their arm with one finger explain muscle memory, and I think, you failed Anatomy right?
I'm placing muscle memory in the oxymoron catagory, beside, "good hospital food".
Thanks doc.
TS - will there be time to shoot one afternoon while in town?
PedOncoDoc
09-02-2010, 13:37
I concur, I guess my question was rhetorical. "Muscle Memory" is one of those terms that I wish would just go away. I see trainers who while pointing at their arm with one finger explain muscle memory, and I think, you failed Anatomy right?
I'm placing muscle memory in the oxymoron catagory, beside, "good hospital food".
I was on a team that was instructing Reservists in CQC prior to heading out to the sandbox. The lead instructor kept on referring to the "Suprasternal notch" (space where the breastbone ends and throat begins) as the "Jugular Notch" and about drove me crazy. Some of the PA/Paramedic/EMT's came to me during a water in/water out break to laugh about it and begged me to correct the guy.
Regarding the hospital food - some hospitals do better than others, and the VIP's often get outside catering brought to their rooms at some of the larger hospitals at which I've been.
Team Sergeant
09-02-2010, 13:38
I concur, I guess my question was rhetorical. "Muscle Memory" is one of those terms that I wish would just go away. I see trainers who while pointing at their arm with one finger explain muscle memory, and I think, you failed Anatomy right?
I'm placing muscle memory in the oxymoron catagory, beside, "good hospital food".
Thanks doc.
TS - will there be time to shoot one afternoon while in town?
I'll make time.....
In reply to the original question: As one of the only two shoulder rig supporters, here are my antiquated reasons for this means of carry:
I carry while wearing a suit and/or sports jacket OR in the oppressive heat and humidity of the Dallas/Ft Worth area, a really loud print, oversize aloha shirt with the tail untucked. I am frequently in and out of law firms and downtown Dallas offices in my capacity as a law enforcement officer and need to pass unheeded.
Remember the oldest detective Fish in the TV show, Barney Miller? He was frequently in the restroom a lot (like me) and, you guessed it, wore a shoulder holster. Ever gone into a public restroom and looked for a convenient and safe place to place your weapon while doing your business?
I also find the shoulder rig balances out the extra magazines and cuffs on the other side without pulling down my waistline.
I was on a team that was instructing Reservists in CQC prior to heading out to the sandbox. The lead instructor kept on referring to the "Suprasternal notch" (space where the breastbone ends and throat begins) as the "Jugular Notch" and about drove me crazy. Some of the PA/Paramedic/EMT's came to me during a water in/water out break to laugh about it and begged me to correct the guy.
Regarding the hospital food - some hospitals do better than others, and the VIP's often get outside catering brought to their rooms at some of the larger hospitals at which I've been.
Too funny!
WholeManin2010
02-06-2012, 19:39
I have seen folks here speak very highly of Kramer's double-thick horsehide gun belts, and Crossbreed's IWB holsters.
Does anyone have experience with the latter's gun belts as well? Particularly those who may also have experience carrying with Kramer's belts. I am certain that Kramer's stuff is excellent, but at $142 plus a 9-week wait, the Crossbreed is tempting me...
Thought I might take a "swing" at "muscle memory"....it isn't.
The reference, though common and incorrectly named does refer to a learning process. I learned to call it "establishing a motor program".
What we're doing with high rep training is executing the same series of movements in a fixed pattern until such time as we no longer need to devote primary thought processes to executing them. Learning to walk is a great example (though most of us here learned to do it long enough in the past that we likely don't remember the learning process.) We no longer give a great deal of thought to walking other than "go" or "stop". However, if you take a careful look at all the movements and shifts in balance required to take one step, you'll find that it's not a simple process at all. The reason we don't seem to do the "calculations" in our heads every time we take a step, is that we've done 'em so much that walking has it's own "sub-routine" that we "run" in the background.
The same thing applies to carrying/drawing a sidearm and performing the "chores" that keep that piece of equipment operating. You establish a "motor program" for your draw, and it gets accessed by (for instance) an audible signal like gunfire (or the words "stick 'em up" or perhaps the beep from a pac timer), or maybe you see something "bad".....you won't think about exactly where the weapon is on your person, it'll seemingly "appear" in your hand...you may not even remember reaching for it, or making a decision to do so.
I was practicing on a range a few months ago and had failed to shift my phone away from the mag pouch when setting up....I went to reload and had the phone firmly indexed into the butt of the pistol before I realized it wasn't a magazine....
Motor Programs.....ask for 'em by name.
In answer to the OP's question....strong side hip or I'll use a "fanny pack" (Found one that doesn't say "Hey, I'm carrying"). My motor programs are MUCH better for hip, but getting pretty good with the pack also. ;)
Strong side hip. Thigh rigs, worn just below body armor for tact use. If you are going to be in a car alot, cross draw or shoulder holster.
In my younger more naive days, strong side thigh rig....it was a blackhawk serpa lock:(....until a former Q course shooting instructor fixed me while we were deployed and showed me the err in my ways. Then I was on to a nice hand stolen Iraqi hip holster.
Shoulder holsters feel too strange to me as well and too many of them are horizontal. I am not comfortable waving my muzzle around even if covered. Especially in the car with my sons in the back seat. If I were to ever carry a shoulder holster, it would be a vertical so just in case it ever does discharge (however unlikely that may be) I don't send a round downrange.
Hug triggers officer's gun, kills woman
(http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120709/D9VT4VMO2.html)
Pat
Guymullins
07-09-2012, 15:47
I carry either a Colt Cobra snubbie or a Star .45 PD in my strong side pocket and have my hand on it in all dangerous areas. While driving, the weapon is on the seat between my thighs. At night, in an open drawer at bedside. Hard on the pants fabric, but completely hidden at all times and at hand when needed. Would like a hammerless version of both weapons though.
fasteddie565
07-09-2012, 19:01
Strong side hip, Preferrably IWB
Same here
Hug triggers officer's gun, kills woman
Lucy,, splain this to me???
A hug from behind??
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Lucy,, splain this to me???
A hug from behind??
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Horizontal shoulder holster and a Glock, maybe?
Pat
The Reaper
07-10-2012, 18:50
Horizontal shoulder holster and a Glock, maybe?
Pat
That was my thought.
TR
I carry either a Colt Cobra snubbie or a Star .45 PD in my strong side pocket and have my hand on it in all dangerous areas. While driving, the weapon is on the seat between my thighs. At night, in an open drawer at bedside. Hard on the pants fabric, but completely hidden at all times and at hand when needed. Would like a hammerless version of both weapons though.
I occasionally drop a little .380 in my pocket when I'm in a hurry and going to places I know and around folks I generally trust. Just because of the potential for a sight to get caught in a seam on the way out, I bought a battered soft computer case for $2 at the local goodwill to get the material, and made what resembles half a business envelope to put it into before dropping into my pocket. With a little padding, it doesn't "print", and the trigger is covered as I pocket the pistol. I did leave a little extra fabric around the area of the "envelope" that will encounter the sights, that I fold down in. As I draw the weapon, that fabric smoothly unfolds to cover the edges of the pocket and prevent hangups.
Just a thought.
And, I know I'm no guru. In fact I'm welcoming advice for the following.
Kid sis would take forever to retrieve a weapon from her purse, and because of her shape could never keep a belt in place, especially with a little weight on it. I'm advising her to carry in a jacket pocket, (one that looks like a fishing vest for the summer), with hand on grip. That's the only solution I can think of.
Because of moving parts catching cloth, I'm looking at a hammerless .38, though she yearns for something with a hundred round clip. Yep, rednecks. ;) I'd be glad to hear any better solutions.
Rob_Frey
07-11-2012, 13:51
My usual carry is a Glock 19 in an IWB holster on my right hip. But recently, I've added a S&W 642-1 in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster as another option.