More air terrorism and situational awareness

[Ghostrider]

Very interesting article.
http://womenswallstreet.com/WWS/article_landing.aspx?titleid=1&articleid=711

[Sacamuelas]

agreed...:munchin

[CPTAUSRET]

Disturbing, to say the least!

Terry

[Solid]

It would be interesting to know if there were 'dry runs' for the technique used for 9/11. In Europe I believe (based on treatment of passengers) that congregation in aisles, lavatory, or galley areas is forbidden.
It occured to me that had the writer or her husband been affilitated with the group, they may have been able to obtain the locations of the air marshals on their flight simply because they were not arabic and/or travelling with a child.
Just thoughts.
What would be the best way to act in this situation?

Thank you,

Solid

[QRQ 30]

Very interesting and worth following up on. Some of our most effective security comes from the vigilance of passengers.

OTOH they may have been someway connected and were visiting the head to snort from the bottle or shoot the juice.

Either way, it pays to be vigilant.

[The Reaper]

1. Be alert and aware at all times.

2. Have a plan.

3. Have at least one alternate plan for when the first one falls apart. Remember PACE.

4. Do not fly in, through, or out of Detroit or the area if travelling with Middle Eastern Muslims makes you nervous. Most of them are fine citizens, but it only takes one to kill you. Too much stress is bad, too. Find an alternate route or means of travel.

5. We are all going to die. Odds are high that any plane hijacked by Muslims in the U.S. today is going to result in the deaths of all on board, regardless of what the hijackers say. Might as well grab whatever weapons are at hand, like that in-flight magazine, roll it up, and get busy defending the cockpit and kicking ass till the end. Die on your feet, not on your knees.

6. PC and COO will be the death of this country. 19 hijackers, all Middle-Eastern Muslims (majority Saudi) hijack four planes and kill 3,000 people, mostly Americans. Why are we detail searching elderly black women, Medal of Honor recipients, and AD service members boarding aircraft while ignoring people meeting the description of the only suspects ever to do this?

The pilot can refuse boarding of any passenger he does not like, and refuse to take off at his discretion. The worst that can happen is he could be fired. Why would he embark these passengers and depart, or not claim an in-flight issue to land short of the final destination? Sounds like our TSA Director is afraid of criticism and has transmitted that to the air crew and LEOs.

Just a few random thoughts.

TR

[Bill Harsey]

I read the link. Good thinkng TR. Hot coffee in the galley may be useful weapon too if you can get to it.

[Solid]

The rolled up magazine trick might catch them by surprise. I hate feeling inadequate- what happens if no one can administer first aid on a plane, for example? Baden Powell- Be Prepared.

Solid

[Guy]

Call it discrimination all you want too!

There is no way in "HELL"!

I would let 14 Arab looking/speaking individuals lolly-gag around an aircraft while in flight. As much as I don't like too...I still remember 9/11.

The sheer anxiety of watching that situation develope, would have made me tell them..."Keep your ass in your seat"!:)

[Bravo1-3]

Originally posted by The Reaper
Remember PACE.

Sir, I am rusty. Could you elaborate on PACE?

Every time I fly, I scope out the layout of the cabin. If for no other reason than to make myself more comfortable I spend a few minutes doing the following:

1. I identify the location of the galley. A face full of hot coffee, followed by getting struck by the coffee pot, then slashed by the broken remains of the coffee pot is probably more than most people could stand.

2. The serving carts are ideal for barricading aisles, and on smaller planes they can be used for securing the head.

3. I always wear a belt with a heavy buckle for use as a Sap or Morning Star.

4. If all else fails, I have a hand full of keys.

5. I envision how I would go about making my way forward quickly in a threat environment. More of a matter of climbing over seats to get around bad guys while the other passengers deal with the bad guys. I'm heading for that cockpit door and dealing with whatever is up there.

TR is correct, everyone is going to die some day, and I'd rather die fighting for my life than begging for it. Post 9/11, you've only got one real choice: Take back the plane or end up in a smoking hole somewhere. Fuck that, they're not taking me with them, I'm taking them with me.

[Guy]

B13

Primary
Alternate
Contingency
Emergency

[NousDefionsDoc]

PC and COO will be the death of this country.

Roger dodger.

[Huey14]

Janes' All The Worlds Aircraft often has cabin layouts of the major A/C types. A300, 737, et el.

Perhaps if one were to go to the library they could familerise themselves with the layout before getting on board.

[The Reaper]

PACE is having three contingency plans. Originally used for our commo planning.

Seatback evacuation card has all of the layout data. Take one, if you fly a lot. Most of the online reservation sites let you pick your seat assignments, that has a diagram as well.

Count rows to exits, and I try to sit on the aisle, exit row if available. Keep an eye on people gathering, and moving toward the front of the plane.

Surefire 6P is great emergency evac gear, just the right size to fill my fist, and blinding to the eyes if it is not broad daylight. I have the heavy belt as well, and a few other items. Molon Labe!

TR

[Air.177]

Surefire lights are good stuff, so is a full Surefire spares carrier on a Lanyard. TSA folks in Colorado springs asked me why I had so many flashlights.:rolleyes:

Then they gave me shit about the cigars I was carrying and we almost went rounds.;)

[Ghostrider]

So in order to be "fair and balanced"....here's a follow up.
http://www.donaldsensing.com/2004/07/casing-northwest-327-threat-or-hoax.html

Regardless, of which is accurate, I personally believe that it is everybody's obligation to be aware of the situation. Like others have posted I check people out, sit in aisle seats close to exits, etc....

[AngelsSix]

From an aircraft mechanics persperctive..........

I always told them I wanted the overwing hatch seats. You can stretch, the seats in front of you cannot recline and there's a quick egress if need be. I can throw one of those hatches, BTW...they weigh between 30-50+ pounds depending on aircraft type.

Since the wings are usually near the center of the aircraft....I am typically right in the middle of the plane. Anyone who goes to the back I can see, anyone who moves foward I can also see (or trip as they walk by). So let someone looking suspicious get up and start moving towards the cabin realy quick, I am going to look to see who is looking around.....then I am am heading up that way, too, because while I may get shot heading up there, the guy who jumps up to shoot me is going to get clobbered by a whole mess of passengers (I hope).

As far as weapons.....well.....I know for a fact that you can stick a ballpoint pen in a couple or two places if need be to at least distract someone.......

I say the heck with it, you only live once......I am not going to let anyone commit an act of random violence or terroism while I can do something to stop it.

[Sacamuelas]

Originally posted by AngelsSix
I can throw one of those hatches, BTW...they weigh between 30-50+ pounds depending on aircraft type.

Umm.. being a self admitted 100 lb female, Didn't you really mean "drop it on someone toe" verses "throwing one as a weapon" in your post. ;) LOL

Sorry A6, I couldn't resist. HAHA

[AngelsSix]

Youv'e never seen me get mad. :D :lifter

Actually the toe trick is my second option. When they look down after I slam it on their toes, I lift it up into their chin and knock them the F-ck out Steven Segal style..... :D:rolleyes:

[NousDefionsDoc]

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/page2/archives/000423.html


Annie Jacobsen and Flight 327
Annie Jacobsen documented Northwest flight 327 on June 29th very well. It was a flight from Detroit to LA that had 14 “Middle Eastern” men wandering about the cabin in unison at different times, congregating in groups at the forward and rear bathrooms and basically terrorizing the people on board with their actions. Fortunately, the flight landed safely and the men turned out to be Syrian Nationals who were musicians.

These musicians were met by a gaggle of law enforcement agents who questioned them, spent “almost two” hours with them, took down their information and then released them.

Now--according to Scott Weinberger the entire group was in America with expired visas. Weinberger is an investigative reporter from WNBC and appeared on the MSNBC program Scarborough Country.

[Gypsy]

This story is beyond disturbing, especially in light of this information. How can this be, can't people read?

[shadowflyer]

When I fly, I carry 2 Surefires with me ...one is a e2 Exec ...and a M3 Millenium, plus I have my photons on a breakaway neck chain.The M3 has the impact device built into it. :D I wonder if carrying an ASP on board would be out of the question?

I am beginning to think I may need a 5.11 vest with all of the crap I carry on daily basis. HK USP 40 Compact, ASP, CKRT M16 folder, 2 spare mags, e2 exec and m3 depending on where I am. I was in downtown atlanta saturday night on a lil mini vacation and down the road about 2000 yards there was a shooting/murder....I heard the shots ...woke me up out of a dead sleep even on the 57th floor of said hotel.


Atlanta ...the capital of the New South ....yeah right Murder Capital.....

JJ

[Ambush Master]

The story unfolds !!! The Air Marshal Association is calling for talks !!!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040728-111758-3815r.htm

"""Syrian music star sings praise of suicide bombers"""

By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
"July, 29 '04"

The Syrian singer of a band that was detained by the FBI's Terrorism
Task Force for suspicious activity during a recent flight to Los
"Angeles has written about the ""glorification"" of suicide bombers to"
liberate Palestine.
"Singer Nour Mehana's latest album includes the song ""Um El"
"Shaheed,"" or ""Mother of a Martyr,"" said Aluma Dankowitz of the Middle"
East Media Research Institute.
The song tells the story of a woman who mourned her son's death
"until she realized that ""he died for a good cause and he should be"
"glorified for what he did,"" said Miss Dankowitz, who translated the"
song for The Washington Times.
"Mr. Mehana, widely known as the Syrian Wayne Newton, sings to the"
mother that her son's goals are heroic and she should be happy he is
dead.
"""The song opens with the depiction of a mother crying over her"
son. He has said goodbye to his friends and family and is not going to
come back. He went with a weapon in one palm and his heart in another
"palm and he's not going to come back,"" Miss Dankowitz said. ""He went"
"to fight to free Palestine, Golan Heights and South Lebanon."""
"The song ends with chants of ""Allahu akbar,"" or ""God is great,"" a"
common Muslim expression. Those were the last words shouted by a
September 11 hijacker before the plane crashed into a Pennsylvania
field and have been the last words of many suicide bombers in Israel.
Mr. Mehana's 14 Syrian band members were detained by officials
June 29 upon deplaning Northwest Flight 327 from Detroit to Los
"Angeles, for acting in a suspicious manner that concerned the flight"
crew and air marshals on board.
"Meanwhile, federal officials were summoned to Capitol Hill"
yesterday to brief Senate and House Judiciary Committee staff in
"response to reports of the incident, and the Federal Air Marshals"
Association requested a meeting with top officials in the Homeland
Security Department.
Passenger Annie Jacobsen reported earlier this month in Women's
Wall Street that the Syrians consecutively filed in and out of
"restrooms, stood nearly the entire flight in congregations of two and"
"three, carried a McDonald's bag into the lavatory and passed it to"
"another Syrian, and carried cameras and cellular phones to the"
restroom.
"Just before landing, seven of the men jumped up in unison and went"
"inside the restrooms. Upon returning to his seat, one man mouthed the"
"word ""no"" as he ran his finger across his throat."
"The men were flying on a one-way ticket via Northwest, and"
returning on a one-way ticket aboard JetBlue.
An Immigration Customs Enforcement official said Monday the men
"had overstayed their visit and should have returned on June 10, but a"
Homeland Security Department spokesman said they learned late Tuesday
that an extension had been granted through July 15.
"Officials called to Capitol Hill included Randy Beardsworth,"
"director of Homeland Security's Operations, Border and Transportation"
"Security Office; Thomas Quinn, director of the Federal Air Marshals"
"Service; and Willie Hulon, deputy assistant director of the FBI's"
counterterrorism division.
"One staffer who attended the briefing said officials were ""very"
"cagey"" on details, which he described as ""very frustrating."""
"However, the officials confirmed air marshals found the activities"
unusual and suspicious.
"""They are trying to have it both ways and say yes, our people are"
smart enough to see something and that's why they called for
"authorities, but they deny it was as scary as it has been portrayed,"""
the staffer said.
Homeland Security officials say they have no intelligence that
terrorists are conducting dry runs on airplanes.
Federal air marshals and pilots also back Mrs. Jacobsen's account
"as similar to other incidents, and say terrorists constantly are"
probing security.
The Federal Air Marshals Association yesterday requested a meeting
with top Homeland Security officials to discuss the issue of terrorist
dry runs.
"""A test run for terrorism is not to be ignored,"" said Bob Flamm,"
"director of the association. ""When a citizen stands up and speaks out"
"in regard to air safety, it is the responsibility of law-enforcement"
"officials involved to seek out the truth and not bury it."""