View Full Version : Assault rifle/carbine for the wife
Defender968
09-21-2009, 21:02
I'm looking to get my wife an assault rifle or carbine, and am looking for suggestions. She's petite and has very small hands so size/weight as well as recoil are my concerns. She prefers so far to shoot my... well now her Kahr 9mm, but she'd like to have (and I'm encouraging it of course) a rifle to shoot as well. I've got a Bushmaster M-4gery that she has shot but it's still a bit too heavy for her to put many rounds through comfortably. My initial thoughts were either a Bushmaster Carbon 15 for the weight, an H&K USC, or possibly a Mini 14. I'd like to stick with wither 223 or 40 cal or bigger, but am open to other suggestions.
Any thoughts would be appreciated, her use will be primarliy just plinking/shootng for fun, and of course my back up in case of the zombie wars :D
I came very near to purchasing a USC. I really liked the way it felt in my hands although I did not get to shoot it. The biggest reason I chose not to buy it was the cost of extra magazines, at $60 a pop it made getting the ten or so I like to have for each of my weapons a bit unreasonable. That may not be an issue for you and perhaps someone else here knows where to get magazines a bit cheaper.
blue02hd
09-22-2009, 08:32
Have you considered the Rock River 9mm line? I have a 16 inch Car-15 chambered for the 9mm and I have found it is a hit with female shooters on the range. Recoil is about nonexistent, and you can modify the furniture just about anyway you want to fit her shooting style. Rock River also offers "pistol versions " of the car in 9mm that would cut down on the weight factor..
Just a suggestion. I personally really enjoy mine. My gf loves it,,,
Rather than an M-4 style AR, why don't you go with a lightweight carbine version? 16" Pencil barrel, standard handguards vice rails, Magpul MOE stock...unless you need the doo-dads, an AR can be pretty lightweight.
DbeforeD
09-22-2009, 12:00
I have a Beretta Cx4 storm that is cheap and fun. Its chambered in 9mm, but there are three other calibers available.
Justaguy
09-22-2009, 13:49
My wife loves her AR....Stripped down, no extra rails or bullshit it doesn't need. Flat top with a full length JP free float foreend (no front sight block, gas tube block underneath) and a standard weight barrel with an M68 on top. The rifle is so slim, and lightwieght I often find myself monkeying around with it, lamenting the fact that I have all this extra crap hanging off both my work, and personal rifles...
Eitherway, if you already have an AR, then get her an AR too....Same Mags, Same ammo, interchangable kit capabilities, same spare parts, same knowledge/tools/experience to maintain.
No need buying a SLR-8 (HK Civi G36), mini-14 (Good rifles though), etc. and then having to buy a whole new set of mags, spare parts, etc.
Gun and gear compatability is just plain good sense.
If you have a Glock or 1911, you could get a Mechtech upper??
http://www.mechtechsys.com/
Fairly inexpensive.
The Reaper
09-22-2009, 14:58
If you have a Glock or 1911, you could get a Mechtech upper??
http://www.mechtechsys.com/
Fairly inexpensive.
Craptastic! Why not just teach her to shoot the Glock?
My wife loves her AR....Stripped down, no extra rails or bullshit it doesn't need. Flat top with a full length JP free float foreend (no front sight block, gas tube block underneath) and a standard weight barrel with an M68 on top. The rifle is so slim, and lightwieght I often find myself monkeying around with it, lamenting the fact that I have all this extra crap hanging off both my work, and personal rifles...
Eitherway, if you already have an AR, then get her an AR too....Same Mags, Same ammo, interchangable kit capabilities, same spare parts, same knowledge/tools/experience to maintain.
No need buying a SLR-8 (HK Civi G36), mini-14 (Good rifles though), etc. and then having to buy a whole new set of mags, spare parts, etc.
Gun and gear compatability is just plain good sense.
Concur!
TR
Peregrino
09-22-2009, 20:34
Mine's had her own M4 almost from Day One. For all the aforementioned reasons. It helps that judicious shopping will yield a decent, entry level carbine in the $750.00 range. (Though I still can't figure out why none of the women I know want pink furniture on their rifles - despite the wife having just bought a pink pistol and putting pink lasergrips on another one.. :confused:)
You could try a kel tec sub-2000. My father uses one because he keeps it folded up in a pack so he can deploy it when he needs to. It comes in 9 and 40 and uses glock magazines which is a plus if you have a glock pistol yourself. Plus it is extremely cheap which is good considering in all reality this weapon system will rarely if ever be used.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/sub2000.htm
Defender968
09-23-2009, 21:30
My wife loves her AR....Stripped down, no extra rails or bullshit it doesn't need. Flat top with a full length JP free float foreend (no front sight block, gas tube block underneath) and a standard weight barrel with an M68 on top. The rifle is so slim, and lightwieght I often find myself monkeying around with it, lamenting the fact that I have all this extra crap hanging off both my work, and personal rifles...
Eitherway, if you already have an AR, then get her an AR too....Same Mags, Same ammo, interchangable kit capabilities, same spare parts, same knowledge/tools/experience to maintain.
No need buying a SLR-8 (HK Civi G36), mini-14 (Good rifles though), etc. and then having to buy a whole new set of mags, spare parts, etc.
Gun and gear compatability is just plain good sense.
Good points, I wasn't really thinking about commonality of accessories though that's a very good idea. I was considering the Bushmaster Carbon 15 R97F Rifle because it's light weight and I'm very familiar with AR's, but I've read some pretty negative opinions on Carbon AR's. My only experience was firing one about 7 years ago, anyone done much with them?
Have you considered the Rock River 9mm line? I have a 16 inch Car-15 chambered for the 9mm and I have found it is a hit with female shooters on the range. Recoil is about nonexistent, and you can modify the furniture just about anyway you want to fit her shooting style. Rock River also offers "pistol versions " of the car in 9mm that would cut down on the weight factor..
Just a suggestion. I personally really enjoy mine. My gf loves it,,,
I have, I was just kind of hoping for something in 40 or better with the price of 9mm ammo now and I've had good luck finding brass 40 for only 2 bucks more per box and God forbid she have to use it on someone I'd rather have her shooting 40 for the stopping power. Olympic arms makes one but I don't know much about Olympic, still doing the research on them.
...I'd rather have her shooting 40 for the stopping power.
Ooooh, you were doing so well up to this point.
Auto Ordnance makes a knock off .30 cal M1 carbine. It is light and a fun shooter.
http://www.auto-ordnance.com/PA-1AO_m1.html
Ooooh, you were doing so well up to this point.
Concur...very funny :D
Defender968
09-24-2009, 06:32
Ooooh, you were doing so well up to this point.
?? Razor I take it you would disagree that when compared to a 9mm the 40 cal has much better stopping power?
There's been much discussion on caliber and that a 22 LR will kill you if put in the correct place, and I agree, however this isn't me, it's my wife, she's not had the years of training, practice, and experience in high stress situations, and like I said I hope she never has to use it in a personal defense mode, but if she did I want her firing the largest round she can handle effectively.
Let me also clarify in terms of 9mm vs 40 cal, I can get 40 cal right now, and have been able to find it much more reliably than 9mm in the past 9 months in my area, now I know that eventually the ammo shortage may loosen up, but all things being equal (or near equal), price, availablity, etc I'd choose 40 cal over 9mm.
Just my .02
Have you looked into recoil compensator. They can make a big round recoil like small round. I have a 44 mag, that is pretty tamed, much similar in shooting a large frame revolver shooting a .38 special.
Other thought is instructions. I feel there are two kinds of felt recoil. The actual physical one and the one that intimidates the shooter and is more mental. My daughter is pretty petite and shoots about everything I own. She has no problems shooting my .45s.
The Reaper
09-24-2009, 08:19
For those who have not shot the 5.56 and 9mm back to back, I do not think that there is very much difference in felt recoil. Muzzle blast would be more significant with the rifle round due to the greater powder charge.
I strongly suspect that recoil may be greater with a .40 S&W than with a 5.56x45 carbine.
The best .40 S&W defensive loads tend to be better stoppers than the best 9mm rounds, IMHO.
Olympic is very spotty with quality, and parts tend to be different from MIL-SPEC as well.
TR
Defender968
09-24-2009, 09:27
For those who have not shot the 5.56 and 9mm back to back, I do not think that there is very much difference in felt recoil. Muzzle blast would be more significant with the rifle round due to the greater powder charge.
I strongly suspect that recoil may be greater with a .40 S&W than with a 5.56x45 carbine.
The best .40 S&W defensive loads tend to be better stoppers than the best 9mm rounds, IMHO.
Olympic is very spotty with quality, and parts tend to be different from MIL-SPEC as well.
TR
Thanks TR, great info, I wouldn't have guessed that the 40 would have greater recoil than a 5.56.
I was getting the feeling from my research that Olympic was a crap shoot at best, and that's not the kind of odds I like in firearms, especially if my wife is shooting them.
Have you looked into recoil compensator. They can make a big round recoil like small round. I have a 44 mag, that is pretty tamed, much similar in shooting a large frame revolver shooting a .38 special.
Other thought is instructions. I feel there are two kinds of felt recoil. The actual physical one and the one that intimidates the shooter and is more mental. My daughter is pretty petite and shoots about everything I own. She has no problems shooting my .45s.
Hollis she doesn't have any issues in terms of being intimidated, she shoots all my handguns with no issues including a full size 45 (I always get amused by the big grin on her face after she gets done shooting:)), the bigger issue in terms of both recoil and weight is she has some back issues, may not be an issue, but I'm always very wary of what she can handle in terms of both recoil and weight, better to be safe than sorry.
I think I'm going to strip my M-4 down and let her shoot that again and see what she thinks, it's been a while since she shot it, last time she said it was too much but that's been a couple of years and she's been working on strength training since then.
(I always get amused by the big grin on her face after she gets done shooting:)),
I noticed that from women too. IMHO it is from empowerment. There is a old saying that goes something like this. "God did not create all men equal, Sam Colt did. " Women are finding that Sam have brought them equality too.
Best,
H.
I always have liked the Ruger Mini-14 in the .223 Remington - my wife does, too. :lifter
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
09-24-2009, 12:14
Thanks TR, great info, I wouldn't have guessed that the 40 would have greater recoil than a 5.56.
Technically, it doesn't, but I was speaking of felt or perceived recoil.
The actual recoil energy in 8 pound carbines is:
9x19 - 1.01 foot pounds
.40 S&W - 1.46 foot pounds
5.56x45 - 2.52 foot pounds
All are well beneath most adults' sensitivity level.
FWIW, a 7.62x51 NATO M-14 yields about 8.12 foot pounds, a 9 pound 12 gauge with heavy loads is at 25.6 foot pounds, and a .50 BMG chambered AR-50 (weighing 32 lbs.) generates 70.5 foot pounds.
TR
frostfire
09-24-2009, 20:57
Technically, it doesn't, but I was speaking of felt or perceived recoil.
The actual recoil energy in 8 pound carbines is:
9x19 - 1.01 foot pounds
.40 S&W - 1.46 foot pounds
5.56x45 - 2.52 foot pounds
All are well beneath most adults' sensitivity level.
FWIW, a 7.62x51 NATO M-14 yields about 8.12 foot pounds, a 9 pound 12 gauge with heavy loads is at 25.6 foot pounds, and a .50 BMG chambered AR-50 (weighing 32 lbs.) generates 70.5 foot pounds.
TR
Reaper Sir,
by heavy loads, do you mean slugs?
I perceived the recoil from a standard Remington 870 shooting slugs to be heavier than M1A/M14 shooting 168 grain, but I'd never have thought it
to be three times heavier! (25.6 vs. 8.12)
The Reaper
09-25-2009, 09:34
Reaper Sir,
by heavy loads, do you mean slugs?
I perceived the recoil from a standard Remington 870 shooting slugs to be heavier than M1A/M14 shooting 168 grain, but I'd never have thought it
to be three times heavier! (25.6 vs. 8.12)
For recoil, it doesn't matter what the projo is, just what it weighs.
I used a 1-3/8 oz. load at 1250 fps, IIRC to calculate it. In my experience, that is a heavy, hard-kicking load.
You might try benchresting the slugs, or shooting the M1A from an offhand position, like you probably fired the shotgun.
TR
If you want cheap you can get a marlin camp 9 or camp 45 they have aftermarket 30rd magazines you can buy.
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/MAGMAR02.aspx
I would just build a light AR-15 with a good flash suppresser and recoil buffer no rails and just a flattop with flip up sights.
I can attest to the shoddy quality of Oly components:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20487 (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20487)
IIRC, failure occurred around 1200 total round count.
People!
Read between the lines. Obviously this entire thread was created by Defender968 in order to justify buying another Gun. Defender968 excellent work in covering your A$$ for your upcoming Weapons purchase:D
Kyobanim
09-26-2009, 08:32
People!
Read between the lines. Obviously this entire thread was created by Defender968 in order to justify buying another Gun. Defender968 excellent work in covering your A$$ for your upcoming Weapons purchase:D
Finally, someone gets it! :D
13331
my wife's AR... i'm all about caliber consolidation. i have 9s and ARs, she has 9s and ARs (well, just one for now). if the S ever HTF, we can man the wire together, pulling mags from the same go-bag. aww.
it'd be better balanced with a SOPMOD (my favorite)... but she likes the way the MOE "looks." with all shooters, male or female, small or bigass- weapon "weight" is more about balance than actual weight. a muzzle-heavy weapon will feel heavier than a weapon that actually weighs more, yet has more weight in the stock. good heavy stocks are UBRs, Emods, SOPMODs, and (off the top of my head) the new ACS is probably a bit on the heavier side, for a lot less d'oh than a SOPMOD or UBR.
i bet if you stuck with some plastic handguards and put an Emod on an M4 for her, she'd love it.