View Full Version : ODA driver designation
Speedgod
08-25-2009, 21:22
Gents and Sirs.
I tried the search and came up empty handed. Who is designated driver in SF vehicles. Is it open and training required?
Thank you in advance.
NousDefionsDoc
08-25-2009, 21:28
Whoever got on the Team Sergeant's shit list last.
No, it is not open. Yes training is required - you must past the SFQC.
Good luck!
Speedgod
08-25-2009, 21:38
Sir,
thank you for the reply. I look forward to that day.
Peregrino
08-25-2009, 21:43
Nice to have you back in the game, Doc! :p Speedgod - Yes, training is required. When you complete the SFQC you will get whatever additional training you need to do your assigned job (that's the "and other duties as assigned" part of SF).
Basenshukai
08-25-2009, 21:58
Gents and Sirs.
I tried the search and came up empty handed. Who is designated driver in SF vehicles. Is it open and training required?
Thank you in advance.
I'm not being sarcastic when I answer this, but, it is usually the best driver. There are no positions on an SF vehicle for amateurs. Every position is critically important. Yes, it requires training.
Speedgod
08-25-2009, 22:18
I'm not being sarcastic when I answer this, but, it is usually the best driver. There are no positions on an SF vehicle for amateurs. Every position is critically important. Yes, it requires training.
Thank you sir Peregrino & Basenshukai for that information. I will do my best to prove I can be the best man for that job when it comes.
On my team, my drivers were also the head mechanic for their vehicle. you don't have support guys on the teams, everyone needs to know how to turn wrenches and do basic maintenance.
There are a lot of great driving courses out there. but you have to pass the SFQC first.
I'm not being sarcastic when I answer this,
Maybe I will be sarcastic.. a little..
Scott
Your 35 yo,, have a couple kids, and I assume a happy wife, You own several Bike shops and have never spent time in the service. And you just joined the site.
Your question make no sense whatsoever... If you had/have done any reading..
You need to do lots of reading...
I would suggest you start with "Horse Soldiers" by Doug Stanton, "The Extraordinary Story of a Band of US Soldiers Who Rode to Victory in Afghanistan".
Not only do SF drive their own vehicles,, they also shoe their own horses, and pack their own mules. We actually have animal husbandry classes when & where needed.
I am not going to ask why you asked.. I will assume it was an effort to gather historical significant back ground information for a book you might write and NOT because your looking to become a "GREEN BERET DRIVER"..
My $00.0002..
Speedgod
08-26-2009, 09:40
Maybe I will be sarcastic.. a little..
Scott
Your 35 yo,, have a couple kids, and I assume a happy wife, You own several Bike shops and have never spent time in the service. And you just joined the site.
Your question make no sense whatsoever... If you had/have done any reading..
You need to do lots of reading...
I would suggest you start with "Horse Soldiers" by Doug Stanton, "The Extraordinary Story of a Band of US Soldiers Who Rode to Victory in Afghanistan".
Not only do SF drive their own vehicles,, they also shoe their own horses, and pack their own mules. We actually have animal husbandry classes when & where needed.
I am not going to ask why you asked.. I will assume it was an effort to gather historical significant back ground information for a book you might write and NOT because your looking to become a "GREEN BERET DRIVER"..
My $00.0002..
Thank you Sir JJ_BPK.
I am looking to enlist 18X. I should have done this six years ago before starting and taking over my Fathers business.
My wife knows what I want to do in life and it is not running a retail business.
I have been reading a lot of books, but did not cross the one you mention. I will pick up a copy of the above mentioned book and do some reading, it is all I do lately and I enjoy it!
Oh one quick note, had they allowed me an Option 40 six years ago I would have taken it. They would not guarantee me at the time that option as it was not available.
I am working as hard and quick as possible to get my chance at my dream.
I will not live the rest of my life with the fact of "I should have or I could have done this". It is time for me to do what I need to do.
This site is a great tool and hope to take full use of it over the next few months to help me gather what I need to give my self the best shot at making it through SFAS and on.
For me, I enjoy driving and wanted some further information on it. It would be great to be an ODA driver and I will take it if and when I get the chance.
Thank you again to all that have posted replies.
greenberetTFS
08-26-2009, 10:01
Thank you Sir JJ_BPK.
I am looking to enlist 18X. I should have done this six years ago before starting and taking over my Fathers business.
My wife knows what I want to do in life and it is not running a retail business.
I have been reading a lot of books, but did not cross the one you mention. I will pick up a copy of the above mentioned book and do some reading, it is all I do lately and I enjoy it!
Oh one quick note, had they allowed me an Option 40 six years ago I would have taken it. They would not guarantee me at the time that option as it was not available.
I am working as hard and quick as possible to get my chance at my dream.
I will not live the rest of my life with the fact of "I should have or I could have done this". It is time for me to do what I need to do.
This site is a great tool and hope to take full use of it over the next few months to help me gather what I need to give my self the best shot at making it through SFAS and on.
For me, I enjoy driving and wanted some further information on it. It would be great to be an ODA driver and I will take it if and when I get the chance.
Thank you again to all that have posted replies.
Speedgod,
Get the book,"Get selected for Special Forces".....Contact www.Warrior-Mentor.com
Big Teddy :munchin
I am looking to enlist 18X.
Your serious??
And this isn't some mid-life epiphany??
And your wife & kids agree??
Get Col Martin's book, as suggested by Ted,,
and read my suggestion later..
The Reaper
08-26-2009, 10:29
Frankly, I think that you are too old for a team. As noted, you should have made this decision a long time ago.
Do some research here about matters that are actually relevent to your situation and pay particular attention to the ones pertaining to age and SF service.
TR
Surgicalcric
08-26-2009, 11:29
If I am not mistaken you are too old, at 35, to enlist as an 18X.
HardRoad
08-26-2009, 12:37
Frankly, I think that you are too old for a team. As noted, you should have made this decision a long time ago.
TR
I'm not sure I agree with that - our senior 18B was 42 when he graduated SFQC, and he's physically and tactically one of the top performers on the team. He was 45 when he earned the BSMV in Iraq.
Are you starting behind the power curve at 36? Sure. Are you as likely to make it through training as a 25 year old? Probably not. Are you going to spend 20 years on an ODA starting at 36? Very unlikely. Are you more likely to seriously hurt yourself than a twenty something? Well, yes.
But the outcome is more likely to be a matter of the individual than the age, and frankly, I like having some "old guys" on the team - they have to work harder and be a lot smarter at staying physically prepared, but they usually bring a little maturity and judgment, and often some life skills beyond the military, to the team.
my .02 dinars . . .
ZonieDiver
08-26-2009, 14:03
Oh one quick note, had they allowed me an Option 40 six years ago I would have taken it. They would not guarantee me at the time that option as it was not available.
This diatribe is not directly specifically at you, Speedgod. It is just that the comment quoted above hit me in the wrong way, at the start of what is shaping up to be a bad day - so pardon me if you think this harsh.
I tire of comments such as the above, which actually say, "I'd volunteer to help my country when it is in a jam IF I can get exactly what I want. If not, my country can go pound sand."
It is for this type of reasoning that I sometimes wish for the return of the draft - modified to meet today's needs - but still a draft. Too many just don't get it. It IS NOT about YOU! This board is filled with men and women who stepped up. Some of the older ones did it when drafted, or under draft-pressure... but they stepped up.
It seems there are a lot of young guys seeking 18X who want this and that. The privilege of wearing the Green Beret and serving with the best this country has to offer isn't enough? The challenge of going into difficult situations, performing near-impossible tasks, risking all, and knowing you gave your all isn't sufficient?
Hell, I was thrilled just to be able to be assigned to a team! The only license my TS would let me have then was a "Lawn Mower License" - for I was the FNG! He let me be the demonstrator for the "Body Rappel" until the next FNG showed up (never did). But - I got to run with the "Big Dogs" and for that I am, and always will be, forever grateful - and proud. Step up. It doesn't hurt... much!
The Reaper
08-26-2009, 15:13
I'm not sure I agree with that - our senior 18B was 42 when he graduated SFQC, and he's physically and tactically one of the top performers on the team. He was 45 when he earned the BSMV in Iraq.
Are you starting behind the power curve at 36? Sure. Are you as likely to make it through training as a 25 year old? Probably not. Are you going to spend 20 years on an ODA starting at 36? Very unlikely. Are you more likely to seriously hurt yourself than a twenty something? Well, yes.
But the outcome is more likely to be a matter of the individual than the age, and frankly, I like having some "old guys" on the team - they have to work harder and be a lot smarter at staying physically prepared, but they usually bring a little maturity and judgment, and often some life skills beyond the military, to the team.
my .02 dinars . . .
The Guard is a different animal.
TR
Dozer523
08-26-2009, 15:30
Getting back to the subject of "Who gets to drive" I'm reminded of a favorite story. It's funny, but it's not a joke.
A "pick-em-up truck" is driving down a dirt road. . . way out in the Texas Hill Country. There are three guys in the truck.
Which one is the Real Cowboy?
The one in the middle.
He don't have to drive;
and he don't have to mess with the gate.:D
Surgicalcric
08-26-2009, 15:36
The Guard is a different animal.
TR
Indeed it is.
But we are holding out hope that one day our AD brothers will come around... :p
Crip
Speedgod
08-26-2009, 15:50
This diatribe is not directly specifically at you, Speedgod. It is just that the comment quoted above hit me in the wrong way, at the start of what is shaping up to be a bad day - so pardon me if you think this harsh.
I tire of comments such as the above, which actually say, "I'd volunteer to help my country when it is in a jam IF I can get exactly what I want. If not, my country can go pound sand."
It is for this type of reasoning that I sometimes wish for the return of the draft - modified to meet today's needs - but still a draft. Too many just don't get it. It IS NOT about YOU! This board is filled with men and women who stepped up. Some of the older ones did it when drafted, or under draft-pressure... but they stepped up.
It seems there are a lot of young guys seeking 18X who want this and that. The privilege of wearing the Green Beret and serving with the best this country has to offer isn't enough? The challenge of going into difficult situations, performing near-impossible tasks, risking all, and knowing you gave your all isn't sufficient?
Hell, I was thrilled just to be able to be assigned to a team! The only license my TS would let me have then was a "Lawn Mower License" - for I was the FNG! He let me be the demonstrator for the "Body Rappel" until the next FNG showed up (never did). But - I got to run with the "Big Dogs" and for that I am, and always will be, forever grateful - and proud. Step up. It doesn't hurt... much!
Sir Zoniediver, Thank You.
I understand what you say. However, and please don't take this wrongly. It is going to be my job. Much like getting a job any where and since this is the case I want what is right for me. Perhaps looking back I should have joined up and taken the basic and jump school. I did not know much at this point six years ago about SF, but I could have applied for RIP after enlisting. The time is here and now and I want to go 18X.
I was told by my Recruiter that his CO said it was no problem with an age waiver for SF as long as the physical checks out.
I can't thank you all enough for all the responses. I take it all in stride and will not let it deter me from the path I choose. When I want something I will do whatever it takes to make it happen.
My wife is very supportive and is pushing me even harder. Maybe she wants me gone. :eek: Nah, she is a great wife and deserves better than me.
I have looked at this from every angle and this is what I want. I understand the concerns of age and I know I wont be in a ODA for 20 years maybe even 5-10. But this is me and what I need to do. After that time I would like to try and become an SF Instructor also.
I will pick up those books and post my responses here when I am done.
Thank you again.
If you think you are up to it and can do the job Go for it. I have had a few Older guys come out of the Q Course and they all did great. The problem in the past was the Older Active Duty guys were high in rank and did not have enough time to learn all the things that 4-5 years as a younger NCO would have let them.
Only one was a bad TS and he was not Bad Bad he just needed a little help from his SR NCO's and he would not take advice easily. If you are going to come off the block you will have time to learn IF YOU MAKE IT to a team.
Good Luck with your Quest for your dream........... Remember there is a high failure rate so be ready physically/mentally/emotionally and Family wise. Your Wife mad and upset and nagging is a real mental block and could cause you to not perform as you could.
Sonic03svtCobra
08-26-2009, 16:28
Speaking of the age issue, I had a 47 year old 18E graduate in my class.
but he was from 19th group.
Surgicalcric
08-26-2009, 16:46
...Much like getting a job any where and since this is the case I want what is right for me. Perhaps looking back I should have joined up and taken the basic and jump school. I did not know much at this point six years ago about SF, but I could have applied for RIP after enlisting. The time is here and now and I want to go 18X.
I was told by my Recruiter that his CO said it was no problem with an age waiver for SF as long as the physical checks out.
No it isnt the case; this isn't like any other job. The sooner you get that idea out of your head the better off you will be. As matter of fact it isn't like any other job I can imagine. In most civilian jobs your ability to perform affects you and your career; here it affects the lives of everyone else on the team first and you and your career comes last.
Secondly, have you given thought to being an Infantryman in the 82nd Airborne, or 2nd ID in Korea (where you family cannot accompany you?) I ask because if for whatever reason you don't make it to/thru the SFQC that's two of the places you could find yourself.
As for the age waiver thing, I have heard that from other over 30 y/o 18X candidates. I have yet to see one.
Just more to think about. And as was pointed out earlier, I would read every thread here that pertains to SF, age, and family.
Best of luck in your decision
When we were going thru the Q-Course in 1983 off the street. We had all kinds of older guys. Some were ex Lawyers, Doctors and business big shots. They were just dropping their former life's and starting over. Probably a few running from Ex Wives..... But they did good and the mix of their life experience with our young no experience worked out pretty good.
Drivers are picked by their ability to drive (day, night, under NODS, under stressful conditions), hence the best driver is the lead driver (regardless of what driving courses they been to). On my team, the drivers are usually the advisors and when their company is not on mission cycle, then they drive and gun.
Last trip, I rotated between lead leader driver/gunner/TA and doing my 18C job.
Lemme get this right.
They ISSUE vehicles to SF?
You don't got to steal them?
I'm getting old.
Lemme get this right.
They ISSUE vehicles to SF?
You don't got to steal them?
I'm getting old.
Lol,
last time I wore a ruck was on a JCET in 2006 in Thailand. Nowadays it's either drive or fly with a little walking.
Lemme get this right. They ISSUE vehicles to SF? You don't got to steal them? I'm getting old.
Me, too. What's the fun in having them issued and then having to do all that daily PMCS and record keeping stuff instead of visiting an AFB or a TRASHCOM area and just sort of clandestinely borrowing vehicles when you needed one? ;)
...Much like getting a job any where and since this is the case I want what is right for me.
This statement bothers me as you have no idea what is right for you regarding SF - and that is not the crux of the matter - what is important is that the 800 pound SFTG gorilla awaiting you if you do become a volunteer and get that far is - I guarantee you - asking himself whether or not you are right for SF. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Speedgod
08-26-2009, 19:57
I want to say thank you to all the QP's for their comments. Bottom line is the recruiter is coming by my business to begin my enrolment. I will give it my all and hold nothing back. Perhaps I will see some of you and laugh about it. Either way I will be there at SFAS. If anyone has any other thoughts please feel free to send a pm.
Thank you!
Edited my slopping type in this post.
I want to say thank you to all the QP's for their comments. Bottom line is the recruiter is coming by my business to begin me enrolment. I will give it my all and bold nothing back. Perhaps I will see some of you and laugh about. Either way I will be there at SFAS. If anyone has any other thoughts please feel free to send a pm.
Thank you!
Spell-check and gramer:eek:....Attention to detail will kill you in this job... Be safe and good luck........:D
Speedgod
08-26-2009, 20:42
Spell-check and gramer:eek:....Attention to detail will kill you in this job... Be safe and good luck........:D
That is what I get for using my iPhone. Sorry about that.
Thank you for the positive words Sir SF_BHT
longrange1947
08-27-2009, 06:07
Uh, what is gramer? :munchin :D
Sorry, being a smart a** again.
Uh, what is gramer? :munchin :D
Sorry, being a smart a** again.
That's OK Rick you are soooo Good at it.....:p
We always went with who was best and/or who wanted to drive - didn't always work out as planned or desired - but sure made for some memorable moments. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
rltipton
09-02-2009, 05:08
More than likeley your Team Daddy will tell you where to sit if that is REALLY what you want to do. Odds are there are vehicle seating charts with crossload plans and reaction to contact drills for GMVs, CH-47s, Hueys, Crashhawks, Zodiacs, you name it already sitting in your future team room and they all probably have your seat already picked out for you.. The bad news is that you will most likely not be handed the keys for some time because your team sergeant won't give a shit what you want to do. He isn't going to be too keen about revamping standing SOPs to accommodate the desires of a newbie.
As one of the first responses stated, it is important that the best guy be behind the wheel. In the current conflicts it is not a matter of "if" you will be engaged with hostile fire, but "when." The whole patrol has to be wired tight naturally, but when you get opened up on with a couple of PKMs, a half dozen AK-47s on spray-n-pray, or God forbid a vehicle rolls over an IED, things can get chaotic in a flash. Your instinctive decisions made in a pinch are what save team members' lives or cause total failure.
The last guy I want behind the wheel at that point is a FOG that just got his tab.
No offense, that's just how it is and you should get used to it.
Good luck & Be safe!
Dozer523
09-02-2009, 08:41
The last guy I want behind the wheel at that point is a FOG that just got his tab. No offense
Ouch! :(or some FOTB young guy that just got his tab and ain't had a civilian Driver's License for more then 2-4 years. :eek: So. . . maybe a guy with a little experience with the team; who has some good technical driving skills; and understands what is expected of him; and drives like he's told when he's told; and can anticipate what he's gonna be told; and do it without being told? I remember that guy! But, his age had nothing to do with it. None took. sorta ;)
ZonieDiver
09-02-2009, 12:54
The last guy I want behind the wheel at that point is a FOG that just got his tab.
Ouch! :(or some FOTB young guy that just got his tab and ain't had a civilian Driver's License for more then 2-4 years. :eek: So. . . maybe a guy with a little experience with the team; who has some good technical driving skills; and understands what is expected of him; and drives like he's told when he's told; and can anticipate what he's gonna be told; and do it without being told? I remember that guy! But, his age had nothing to do with it. None took. sorta ;)
I just assumed that my fellow QP meant "FNG" instead of "FOG"! :D It seemed to make more sense to my oft-befuddled brain.
longrange1947
09-02-2009, 14:04
That's OK Rick you are soooo Good at it.....:p
Hell, why do you think I mentioned it? I actually caught one instead of making the mistake. :lifter :D
Speedgod
09-02-2009, 20:29
We always went with who was best and/or who wanted to drive - didn't always work out as planned or desired - but sure made for some memorable moments. ;)
Richard's $.02
More than likeley your Team Daddy will tell you where to sit if that is REALLY what you want to do. Odds are there are vehicle seating charts with crossload plans and reaction to contact drills for GMVs, CH-47s, Hueys, Crashhawks, Zodiacs, you name it already sitting in your future team room and they all probably have your seat already picked out for you.. The bad news is that you will most likely not be handed the keys for some time because your team sergeant won't give a shit what you want to do. He isn't going to be too keen about revamping standing SOPs to accommodate the desires of a newbie.
As one of the first responses stated, it is important that the best guy be behind the wheel. In the current conflicts it is not a matter of "if" you will be engaged with hostile fire, but "when." The whole patrol has to be wired tight naturally, but when you get opened up on with a couple of PKMs, a half dozen AK-47s on spray-n-pray, or God forbid a vehicle rolls over an IED, things can get chaotic in a flash. Your instinctive decisions made in a pinch are what save team members' lives or cause total failure.
The last guy I want behind the wheel at that point is a FOG that just got his tab.
No offense, that's just how it is and you should get used to it.
Good luck & Be safe!
Ouch! :(or some FOTB young guy that just got his tab and ain't had a civilian Driver's License for more then 2-4 years. So. . . maybe a guy with a little experience with the team; who has some good technical driving skills; and understands what is expected of him; and drives like he's told when he's told; and can anticipate what he's gonna be told; and do it without being told? I remember that guy! But, his age had nothing to do with it. None took. sorta ;)
Thank you again for the answers QP's.
I will be signing some papers at the first of next week after I pick up some papers from college needed by the Army.
Been reading the books mentioned earlier and I thank you for the recommendations. They are a great read!
Also hitting the training hard. :lifter
rltipton
09-02-2009, 20:52
Well sorry for the FOG thing, but it happens to all of us sooner or later.
I distinctly remember breaking up a "conversation" about this exact subject between a 35 yo E6 fresh from the Q-course and a 22 yo E6 with 3 years team time and 3 combat deployments under his belt. The 35 yo sat his ass in the rear with the 240B.
I suppose the advice I should have given Speedgod is to show up and ask where your team daddy wants you instead of telling him where you want to be.
Good luck & be safe.
Speedgod
09-02-2009, 21:05
Well sorry for the FOG thing, but it happens to all of us sooner or later.
I distinctly remember breaking up a "conversation" about this exact subject between a 35 yo E6 fresh from the Q-course and a 22 yo E6 with 3 years team time and 3 combat deployments under his belt. The 35 yo sat his ass in the rear with the 240B.
I suppose the advice I should have given Speedgod is to show up and ask where your team daddy wants you instead of telling him where you want to be.
Good luck & be safe.
Sir rltipton,
Thank you again for your advice.
I would hope to know my place and not ask a CO where I want to be, but where they want me to be. When I make it, I will be happy to do what it is I told. I may not like it, but I know what I am getting into and know my long term goals will take time. BTW, I understand your reference to the age.
Cheers
The Reaper
09-03-2009, 08:45
Sir rltipton,
Thank you again for your advice.
I would hope to know my place and not ask a CO where I want to be, but where they want me to be. When I make it, I will be happy to do what it is I told. I may not like it, but I know what I am getting into and know my long term goals will take time. BTW, I understand your reference to the age.
Cheers
If you ever get far enough for it to matter, it isn't about you.
It is about the team, and your teammates.
TR
Speedgod
09-03-2009, 10:28
If you ever get far enough for it to matter, it isn't about you.
It is about the team, and your teammates.
TR
Sir TR,
Thank you again for your comments. I will see you in Pineland.
Dozer523
09-03-2009, 11:01
Sir TR,
Thank you again for your comments. I will see you in Pineland. As long as he doesn't see you;) Make sure you aren't easily identifiable as the one sulking because you "didn't get a window seat".:D
Ps (Speeddog) Now would be a good time to stop posting on this thread.
Utah Bob
09-03-2009, 20:19
Driver? Driver??
A. Eyes on 25 meter target son.
B. It's not a 'job".
After reading all your posts I think you want SF very much. I'm not sure why. You need to do some soul searching imho. Good luck to you.