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albeham
08-23-2009, 20:28
OK guys.

I have been asked to run a "E&E" type lane, Survival techniques, at a Camperee in November for Boy Scouts. Idea is on How to get found, shelters , water, routes, etc.

I am asking for ideas and a POC here in the Maryland area to maybe help me out, ether to run the lane with me or maybe some good hand outs, ideas.

When I was a younger scouter, I remember a few 20th GRP guys, I think they where, can out to a camp out and gave use a education, that I took with me in to the Army. I still remember that Damm cold New England winter weekend.

Because of that weekend, I became a QP.

So, what ideas do you have, remember they are 11 yrs old up to 18, and its in November.

AL

:munchin

DDD
08-23-2009, 21:22
Stick with the basics.. Key word SURVIVAL, fire starting, mind set. You can tweek the basic core to fit the older more experienced troops. I used to teach this years ago, but no hand outs survived.

JJ_BPK
08-24-2009, 05:28
If you need help with the water boarding!!! :eek::D:eek:

I agree with 3D,, keep it simple,, shelter, fire, water.. SURVIVAL..

Not sure who would ask for an E&E?? The mind set need to run E&E is not something I would want an 10-16 yo thinking. In fact the E&E mind set is the opposite of the traditional survival skills taught to Scouts.

Additionally,, Most Scout programs lead to Merit Badges. Does the person asking have one in mind??

10 yo running an E&E lane???

E&E


covering 40 miles, fast and at night
Leave no trail or sign for trackers, intersperse punji stakes as available
Eating live snakes,, do you save the skin for a garrote?
no fires, unless you are burning enemy bodies
leave no trace,, carry that F18 ejection seat out with you
quickly navigate to the closest safe house with-in 300 miles


Survival


Create an earth friendly shelter and wait for recovery
Create fire for warmth and signaling, preferably with renewable & sustainable resources
Find & maintain a water source
Don't drink the yellow snow
WII & Twitter reception above the tree line
build an environmentally safe solar still from your copy of the WSJ


You start teaching E&E to kids and the lawyers may partake of your wallet and glutinous maxi mus...



My $00.0002


http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/resources/ageappropriateguidelines.aspx

albeham
08-24-2009, 06:57
JJ BPY .. DDD..

I agree with you both. Mind set.. Survival basics .. Water, Food, Shelter, Fire ..

The how to get found ..


AL



:munchin

Richard
08-24-2009, 07:10
Concur - having been involved with Scouting for decades, I'm of the KISS principle for such activities because you'll have Scouts of all levels coming through your stations - the SURVIVAL acronym, like the ABCDE for First Aid, is a must and a good place to begin.

Or...you could always just give them each a copy of CPT Myke's survival guide and a 1-800 number to call if they're in trouble - I'm sure there's a coloring book version for kids. :rolleyes:

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Pete
08-24-2009, 07:26
Overnight?

Can be cold up there in November.

I would assume they would have their regular camping gear and could keep their sleeping bags, ground pads and extra cloths. Give each patrol a couple of medium size chunks of plastic and some 550 cord.

Shake down Saturday morning for food items, then some basic classes fire making, shelter, signals and food/animal prep. Then move each patrol to it's own area and have them make shelter, fire and a signal.

Don't know how well a "Kill Class" would go over but to get the idea you could go around to each patrol and drop off a couple of dressed rabbits or chickens before supper.

While not "hard core" it will make them think on how to add the plastic pieces together to make a shelter, fire with a metal match is always fun and what to do with some big chunks of meat.

Firewood goes fast in November. Will they get enough to last the night:D

Sten
08-24-2009, 08:06
Consider using the guys who are in OA and the kids with the wilderness survival and Pioneering badges as cadre.

Razor
08-24-2009, 11:57
This is probably a no-brainer for you, but it bears repeating for others that may be reading--boys, especially younger Scouts, have short attention spans. 1-2 hour classroom lectures will lose the audience very quickly. If you can, shoot for 15-30 minutes of instruction, followed by a supervised hands-on practical exercise.

You don't necessarily have the dearth of trees problem in MD that we do here on the Front Range, so I'm not sure how cutting evergreen bows for shelter would be received in your location. It took me a while, but I've come to terms with letting boys use tarps/ponchos/plastic sheeting/contractor garbage bags to make their overnight shelters here, so long as they show proficiency at making a frame from provided natural materials. I also show them pictures of natural material shelters (debris hut, lean-to, leeward dugout, etc.) so they understand that there are methods available if you don't have that tarp on you. Just remember, the MB requires the boy to actually build a shelter himself and spend the night in it.

If the troop has several patrols, incorporating some kind of patrol competition is always fun (kids understand and accept the concept of winners and losers, even if adults try to make everyone suck equally). Fire building races (burning through a string holding a water balloon, boiling a pint of water, etc.) are relatively easy to set up. A Jeopardy-style quiz on ground-to-air signals or other survival topics can also be fun, as can a first aid relay race.

I've also set up a "tasting" station before for the boys to sample water treated with iodine and chlorine as an attention-getter for water treatment classes.

While I'm not a bow drill fire starting proponent unless absolutely necessary, providing a few sets for the boys to try (and see how much work and practice it takes) can prove quite educational for them. Same for flint and steel (old style natural flint and carbon steel striker, not a ferrocerium rod). They quickly learn the importance of very dry and fine tinder (or char cloth).

albeham
08-24-2009, 15:39
RAZOR..

Good ideas.. I have the same thought on the fire, the bow/drill.

I am looking at a display for a survival kits, ideas, of what I would carry.

I am going to have more information on the 5 W's, when we have a meeting later this month.

I just got the heads up last night with a email. I ant' the one to wait long.

Keep them rolling guys, and always thank you.

AL :munchin

albeham
09-18-2009, 20:10
OK its a go, awaiting for Staff to reply to my email about our ideas, but am leaning forward in the hole, and need to start some prep work on this.

As your ideas,

Survival..

* Create an earth friendly shelter and wait for recovery
* Create fire for warmth and signaling, preferably with renewable & sustainable resources
* Find & maintain a water source
* Don't drink the yellow snow
* WII & Twitter reception above the tree line.
* build an environmentally safe solar still from your copy of the WSJ


I would like to hand a reference sheet to them, the boys if asked.

I got a few, but whats your fav ?

Could use a few books to show, anyone up here have a few I can use on a loan ? Nov 13 weekend, is show time.

Yes, mine are all gone...:mad:


AL :munchin

If you need to, email me of line... Thanks all

2018commo
09-19-2009, 06:20
Checkout the Wilderness Survival merit badge, plenty of E&E skills there, and if the Scouts have blue cards you can sign them off. Look at becoming a Merit Badge counselor, Wilderness Survival, Orienteering, Radio, Rifle Shooting, First Aid are all skills you have as a QP. There are others but you can only do six.
Last year during Icicle I took the Leadership Patrol up on OA hill, while the patrols were in competition. We build shelters, started fires without matches, determined direction without a compass and navigated by memory. The Scout Field Book is an excellent reference, and I used it teaching survival long after I left scouts. Have fun; I am in the Harford District, let me know if you need some other guidance/help.
Remember:"Its a game with a purpose".

albeham
09-19-2009, 07:33
2018commo,

You and I need to get together.

I am in 4Rivers, Baltimore.

Thanks for the post, and yes, I will have fun...

YIS
AL
:lifter

Ambush Master
09-20-2009, 14:01
Mix up some Rice using the "Iodine" water and keep it hidden until you reveal it!! I bet the looks on their faces will be very close to what I looked like the first time I pulled a bag of "Indig-Rice" out of my ruck after a few days afield and after a "local" water re-suppy!!!:D

later
Martin

Razor
09-21-2009, 10:23
There are others but you can only do six.

Unfortunately, it sounds like your troop/district/council has fallen victim to urban legend that goes against BSA National council. According to National, a merit badge counselor can counsel for as many merit badges as he or she wishes, so long as they are registered individually for each merit badge, and they have some connection to the subject via vocation or avocation. Conceivably, under these rules one "renaissance" counselor could counsel all 120+ merit badges. I currently counsel 10 merit badges, and that's only because I a) want some free time in my life, and b) want to force boys in the troop to seek out other adults they may not know well and interact with them, which is another aim of the merit badge program today.

2018commo
09-22-2009, 07:26
Unfortunately, it sounds like your troop/district/council has fallen victim to urban legend that goes against BSA National council. According to National, a merit badge counselor can counsel for as many merit badges as he or she wishes, so long as they are registered individually for each merit badge, and they have some connection to the subject via vocation or avocation. Conceivably, under these rules one "renaissance" counselor could counsel all 120+ merit badges. I currently counsel 10 merit badges, and that's only because I a) want some free time in my life, and b) want to force boys in the troop to seek out other adults they may not know well and interact with them, which is another aim of the merit badge program today.

Razor,
I suspect its a troop or district rule, but we are a big troop and as you said it would spread the wealth around. I have been with them for a year and already I am an ASM, an instructor at District for IOLS and I am getting involved in the District Life to Eagle program; six is enough. My son just made Tenderfoot and I have never seen him so enthused, truly a magic time for us!

Razor
09-22-2009, 10:06
My son just made Tenderfoot and I have never seen him so enthused, truly a magic time for us!

That's great news! Another budding outdoor enthusiast and responsible citizen to pass along the tradition.

greenberetTFS
09-22-2009, 15:05
I've got to tell this story...... :D Once upon a time when I was with the 12th Grp (mid 60's) we were requested to give a demonstration of what Special Forces was all about. Our team leader,1st Lt. Luey came up with lets show these kids "hand to hand combat and use bayonets in their sheaths, of course" to really impress them,they'll love it........... :rolleyes: Well,the mothers weren't too enthused with it,however the kids thought it was great......:p Needless to say it was the last time we were invited to that Boy Scout outing again...............

Big Teddy :munchin

albeham
09-30-2009, 15:49
Thanks to all on the ideas, and its going to be fun.


But now I am asking for some help in getting some camo sticks, and begging , borrowing the use of a Ghillie suits or two, to run a lane with.

Who can help me out?

Yes I am asking, you will get them back..

AL
:D

PS there is no money in the kitty for the stuff I need.

jlcoad
09-30-2009, 16:23
I don't know if you've come across this page, but it looks like it has everthing you neeed except camo sticks and ghillie suits

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Wilderness_Survival

albeham
09-30-2009, 16:32
I don't know if you've come across this page, but it looks like it has everthing you neeed except camo sticks and ghillie suits

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Wilderness_Survival

Yes, I did and I do have it.

I am going to add a little excitement to it. Thanks
AL

:lifter

jlcoad
09-30-2009, 16:35
Sounds like it's going to be fun. Wished I lived closer and had something to add.