Pan Am 103 bomber to go home [Archive] - Professional Soldiers ®

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Defender968

08-20-2009, 07:54

Amazing to me they would let this guy go, after all he showed no compassion to the 270 people he killed, they weren't allowed to go home to die naturally in peace. On a side note Momar Khadafi is sending his personal jet to pick this guy up, bet he gets a nice welcome when he gets home. IMHO a life sentence should end in prison.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,540967,00.html

EDINBURGH, Scotland — Scotland freed the terminally ill Lockerbie bomber on compassionate grounds Thursday, allowing him to die at home in Libya despite American protests that mercy should not be shown to the man responsible for the deaths of 270 people.

Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said Abdel Baset al-Megrahi's condition had deteriorated from prostate cancer. Al-Megrahi had only served some eight years of a life sentence, but MacAskill said he was bound by Scottish values to release him.

"Our belief dictates that justice be served but mercy be shown," MacAskill said, ruling that al-Megrahi "be released on compassionate grounds and be allowed to return to Libya to die."

"Some hurts can never heal, some scars can never fade," MacAskill said. "Those who have been bereaved cannot be expected to forget, let alone forgive ... However, Mr. al-Megrahi now faces a sentence imposed by a higher power."

Al-Megrahi, 57, was convicted in 2001 of taking part in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 on Dec. 21, 1988. He was sentenced to life in prison.

The airliner — which was carrying mostly American passengers to New York — blew up as it flew over Scotland. All 259 people aboard and 11 on the ground died when the aircraft crashed into the town of Lockerbie.

The former Libyan intelligence officer was sentenced to serve a minimum of 27 years in a Scottish prison for Britain's deadliest terrorist attack. But a 2007 review of his case found grounds for an appeal of his conviction, and many in Britain believe he is innocent.

The White House said Thursday it "deeply regrets" the decision to free al-Megrahi.

"As we have expressed repeatedly to officials of the government of the United Kingdom and to Scottish authorities, we continue to believe that Megrahi should serve out his sentence in Scotland," the White House said in a statement. "On this day, we extend our deepest sympathies to the families who live every day with the loss of their loved ones."

Earlier, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton phoned MacAskill urging him not to release al-Megrahi, and seven U.S. senators wrote a letter with a similar message.

MacAskill said he stood by al-Megrahi's conviction and the sentence for "the worst terrorist atrocity ever committed on U.K. soil."

He said he ruled out sending the bomber back to Libya under a prisoner-transfer agreement, saying the U.S. victims had been given assurances that al-Megrahi would serve out his sentence in Scotland.

But he said that as a prisoner given less than three months to live by doctors, al-Megrahi was eligible for compassionate release.

"I am conscious that there are deeply held feelings and many will disagree whatever my decision," he said. "However, a decision has to be made."

The families of some American victims were quick to express their outrage.

"I don't understand how the Scots can show compassion. It's an utter insult and utterly disgusting," said Kara Wepz, of Mt. Laurel, New Jersey, whose 20-year-old brother Richard Monetti was on board Pan Am Flight 103. "It's horrible. I don't show compassion for someone who showed no remorse."

The Times of London reported Thursday that the private jet of Libya's leader, Moammar Gadhafi, was to collect al-Megrahi at Glasgow Airport after he was released.

Al-Megrahi's trial and conviction led to a major shift in Libya's relationship with the West.

Gadhafi engineered a rapprochement with his former critics following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. He renounced terrorism, dismantled Libya's secret nuclear program, accepted his government's responsibility for the Lockerbie bombing and paid compensation to the victims' families.

Western energy companies — including Britain's BP PLC — have moved into Libya in an effort to tap the country's vast oil and gas wealth.

Gadhafi has lobbied for the return of al-Megrahi, an issue which took on an added sense of urgency when he was diagnosed with cancer last year. His lawyers say his condition is deteriorating and doctors have given him less than three months to live.

The question of freeing al-Megrahi has divided Lockerbie families, with many in Britain in favor of setting him free, and many in the U.S. adamantly opposed.

British Rev. John Mosey, whose daughter Helga, 19, died in the attack, said Wednesday he would be glad to see al-Megrahi return home.

"It is right he should go home to die in dignity with his family. I believe it is our Christian duty to show mercy," he said.

But American families have largely been hostile to the idea.

"I'm totally against it. He murdered 270 people," said Paul Halsch of Perinton, New York, who lost his 31-year-old wife in the attack. "This might sound crude or blunt, but I want him returned from Scotland the same way my wife Lorraine was ... and that would be in a box."

Peter Sullivan of Akron, Ohio, whose college roommate Mike Doyle died at Lockerbie, said he believed Britain was putting commercial interests before the interests of the victims' relatives.

"The interest of big oil should not be the basis of a miscarriage of justice to let murderer of 270 people be released," Sullivan said.

Saoirse

08-20-2009, 08:09

I saw this last night and could only shake my head in disgust. Scotland is a dhimmi-country. Not surprising since the Church of Scotland accepted sharia law into the courts. It was also reported that families "forgave" him. :confused:

Fox news, this morning, is reading some of the letters from the victims families about this POS's release. It is heart wrenching and they are, indeed, becoming victims all over again. The POS has a motorcade to a private jet. But I guess he is "their" version of a rock star and no doubt, Defender you are right, he will have quite the welcome home. A hero's welcome?

Blitzzz (RIP)

08-20-2009, 08:22

Maybe if All the Families forgave him.
In the fashion of Braveheart, this one should be drawn and quartered. in public...

Razor

08-20-2009, 08:25

CPT Joe Curry, 10th SFG died in that bombing.

Utah Bob

08-20-2009, 08:41

Apparently in Scotland, a life sentence doesn't include dying in prison. This walking bag of excrement has served only 8 years for murdering nearly 300 innocent people.
I think they already showed him mercy by not hanging him. I hope Scotland "the breve" doesn't get hold of any more terrorists.
I am absolutely enraged.:mad:

mojaveman

08-20-2009, 08:55

Maybe if All the Families forgave him.
In the fashion of Braveheart, this one should be drawn and quartered. in public...

I have a better idea Blitzzz.

I think that he should be burned at the stake in front of the family members of his victims.

I'd pay an admission fee just to watch.

jlcoad

08-20-2009, 09:03

I am a very simplistic thinking person and have a tendency to react rather than act. With that said, why is Al-Megrahi still alive? I have heard of people being killed in prison who have committed lesser crimes.

Why is Gadhafi still alive? Is it because he said he was sorry and started being friendlier to the American oil companies?

I f De Opresso Liber was the United States Motto it would read:

“ De Opresso Liber if your Government doesn’t let our oil companies in”

Team Sergeant

08-20-2009, 09:11

This story (below) "is" the real the reason they all died.....

I cannot believe scotland released the coward scumbag......

TS

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,975399,00.html

Utah Bob

08-20-2009, 09:18

I am a very simplistic thinking person and have a tendency to react rather than act. With that said, why is Al-Megrahi still alive? I have heard of people being killed in prison who have committed lesser crimes.

Why is Gadhafi still alive? Is it because he said he was sorry and started being friendlier to the American oil companies?

I suspect that he was isolated from the general inmate population like child molesters and rapists are.
Gadhafi's still alive because the AF missed him by a hair.

Praetorian

08-20-2009, 10:20

270 people murdered.

Convicted January 31, 2001.

Released August 20, 2009.

3,123 days in prison.....

Or

Eleven and a half days for each victim....
:mad:

greenberetTFS

08-20-2009, 11:18

Whatever ties we have with scotland should be put on hold ..................:mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

Dozer523

08-20-2009, 12:23

CPT Joe Curry, 10th SFG died in that bombing.
Joe Curry was a fine young officer and a friend. We attended the Q Course together. He was dedicated, proficient, and had an interesting sense of humor.

echoes

08-20-2009, 12:59

Whatever ties we have with scotland should be put on hold ..................:mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

Agree 100%! What a buch of pansy-ass cowards!!!:mad:

Hope this man knows that his cell in hell is waiting for his arrival, and hope the fire gets stoked extra hot for the slow, eternal roasting of his flesh.

Holly

Richard

08-20-2009, 14:16

Convicted January 31, 2001.

Released August 20, 2009.

3,123 days in prison.....

Or

Eleven and a half days for each victim...

But now he walks in a painfully funny way, has a panic attack every time he hears someone coming up behind him or the sound of running water, bawls at the mention of anyone needing some soap, won't go near a shower, and wears Depends due to a severe case of fecal incontinence acquired over the last 3,123 days. :D

Personally - I would use this as a golden PSYOPs opportunity to sell the world on how Western Civilization is, indeed, merciful to those who are truly suffering - even if the sufferer is one who has been stricken by God/Allah with a horrifically painful and fatal illness for going against HIS word from having been led astray by those who would so wrongfully preach that HE would honor anyone who commited murder in HIS holy name. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

The Reaper

08-20-2009, 14:18

Justice would have prevented his release, or at best, his plane from making it to Libya safely.

TR

jlcoad

08-20-2009, 14:26

Tatonka316

08-20-2009, 15:06

I did not know CPT Curry, but I did know several other passengers. The merciful thing for that oxygen thief would be for the Navy to re-institute keel-hauling ... under the Nimitz!!!:mad:

jlcoad

08-20-2009, 15:11

I suspect that he was isolated from the general inmate population like child molesters and rapists are.
Gadhafi's still alive because the AF missed him by a hair.

I guess they heven't heard of "felon assisted suicide" in Scotland

If at you first don't succeed.......

Praetorian

08-20-2009, 15:38

Whatever ties we have with scotland should be put on hold ..................:mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

If that means no Haggis- Count me in.

ZonieDiver

08-20-2009, 15:45

The only way that SOB should have been returned to Libya - and his "boss" - is in a pine box... C.O.D.!

Praetorian

08-20-2009, 16:09

PRB

08-20-2009, 16:24

It seems that, in our time, forgiveness has somehow been translated to mean not paying the price of your crime.
I can forgive you and still impose justice.
You see that in kids today too. If they ask for and get 'forgiven' they don't expect to pay any price...Hey, you forgave me???
Ok, I forgive you but you are still grounded.
Ok, we forgive you but you will still live out your sentence.

Richard

08-20-2009, 16:33

You can take this for what its worth....

There is a great need for sarcasm font.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Pete

08-20-2009, 16:39

The locals looked happy to see the hero.

Wonder if he still has time to get fitted for a terrorist bomber belt before he checks out of the net?

Praetorian

08-20-2009, 16:41

There is a great need for sarcasm font.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

;) :D

nmap

08-20-2009, 17:16

There is a great need for sarcasm font.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

One could select a color and establish a protocol...for example:

Releasing a murderer early - great idea!

With pink defined as a sarcasm flag.

Gosh, wouldn't it be a shame if the murderer got some last-minute injections from the NHS...and someone accidentally injected something both deadly and highly infectious after a few days incubation period. Ahh, the dangers of socialized medicine... (/irony alert)

Irishsquid

08-20-2009, 18:03

Makes me want to deny my own heritage. What happened to the Scottish? What happened to the Highland Clans, and the Border Reivers? Hell...Guess Scotland is like the rest of the world now...no balls.

echoes

08-20-2009, 18:04

One could select a color and establish a protocol...for example:

Releasing a murderer early - great idea!

With pink defined as a sarcasm flag.

Gosh, wouldn't it be a shame if the murderer got some last-minute injections from the NHS...and someone accidentally injected something both deadly and highly infectious after a few days incubation period. Ahh, the dangers of socialized medicine... :D

nmap,

Am not as intelligent as some, but the humor in your above post is lost on me.

The only way that SOB should have been returned to Libya - and his "boss" - is in a pine box... C.O.D.!

Agree Sir! This man MURDERED AMERICANS SOLDIERS, AND CIVILIANS!

Holly

nmap

08-20-2009, 18:10

nmap,

Am not as intelligent as some, but the humor in your above post is lost on me.

Or perhaps I'm humor challenged....

The jest focused on the hero's welcome provided by the Libyans to the murderer. The procedure would cause him to infect the Libyans who welcomed him home. Thus their terrorist would bring them death.

Perhaps not funny - but brutally ironic.

Box

08-20-2009, 18:21

sadly...
...the "mercy" that some may be hoping to project will be lost on the culture we are so desperately trying to appease.
Only the gullible believe that what has been done will be seen as an act of mercy by islam.

This was an act of weakness by the west and a victory for the faithful.
Praise be allah

Godspeed to the innocent that have fallen to these savages.

echoes

08-20-2009, 18:25

Or perhaps I'm humor challenged....

Perhaps not funny - but brutally ironic.

Nmap,

In this thread, the :D icon just got my blood pumping.

You are far more intelligent than me, so I just wanted to voice my small opinion.

Holly:munchin

nmap

08-20-2009, 18:39

Nmap,

In this thread, the :D icon just got my blood pumping.

You are far more intelligent than me, so I just wanted to voice my small opinion.

Holly:munchin

I can understand that. I've taken out the icon and added an "irony" label.

Utah Bob

08-20-2009, 20:29

You can take this for what its worth.... Ive never been incarcerated or forcefully sodomized by another man, so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing out on.... But I cant imagine if the above activity is really so commonplace in prison that recidivism rates would be in the 90 percentile range. I know you hear anecdotes about it. Its become a part of popular culture especially films and jokes.... And maybe the possibility of it provides SOME level of "justice" for the victims when juxtaposed against three hot meals a day, free gym membership and color/cable TV. But I personally know what lengths I would go to to avoid both prison and rape.... Yet people who have been there cant seem to wait to get back.... So I just don't know....

In prison you have rapers and rapees. And yeah it's very commonplace.

219seminole

08-20-2009, 20:52

I'm too old to see it, but during the lifetimes of my children Britain will certainly be a Muslim country...the Muslim birth rate is higher and the gov't too easily rolls over. Though he received a life sentence, it was actually 27 years minimum and now the compassionate release. England and Scotland bow to the Muslim elements in their midst. Last year the Dundee, Scotland, police mailed a post card to local residents advising a new phone number. The front of the post card had a German shepherd puppy sitting in a police hat. Muslims protested, as the dog is considered unclean. The Chief Constable apologized. My family left Scotland centuries ago and now won't wear my kilt with the same pride.

I've always liked my dogs.

WARNING TO OTHERS: Don't try to post after 2 Bloody Marys.

jlcoad

08-20-2009, 22:20

But now he walks in a painfully funny way, has a panic attack every time he hears someone coming up behind him or the sound of running water, bawls at the mention of anyone needing some soap, won't go near a shower, and wears Depends due to a severe case of fecal incontinence acquired over the last 3,123 days. :D

Personally - I would use this as a golden PSYOPs opportunity to sell the world on how Western Civilization is, indeed, merciful to those who are truly suffering - even if the sufferer is one who has been stricken by God/Allah with a horrifically painful and fatal illness for going against HIS word from having been led astray by those who would so wrongfully preach that HE would honor anyone who commited murder in HIS holy name. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

If he walks funny it's not because of prison. After all he is a buddy of Gadhafi. I may be wrong but isn't sodomy the national pastime of Libya.:D

Do they shower in Libya?

Soap? I am sure that would have to be imported with instructions.

Richard, I agree with you, using this to win "hearts and minds" would seem like the ideal strategy but I think the radical eliment of that part of the world would see compassion as a weakness. Let's face it, the radicals are calling the shots. We would have to follow up with serious committed psyops. Eventually we would have to place "boots on the ground" to finish the job. Not that that's a bad thing.
In this case the only hearts and minds we would even come close to winning would be those of the ACLU. Remember they don't have NPR or CNN over there.
The idea of discrediting those involved would be the best way. We don't need to make any more martyrs. Well, maybe we do. They have to run out of virgins and rivers of milk and honey sometime.

I have some redneck acquaintances that think genocide is the answer. Unfortunately that is their solution to everything.

jlcoad

08-20-2009, 22:28

In prison you have rapers and rapees. And yeah it's very commonplace.

Like any other society the strong will always take advantage of the week

jlcoad

08-20-2009, 22:38

Whatever ties we have with scotland should be put on hold..................:mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

Not sure if I would blame Scotland, as England is always in the background calling the shots. After all England seems to be on a mission to convert the whole country to Islam.
See Area Studies > Europe Swimmers are told to wear burkinis
next they'll legalize hash

Then again I might just be afraid I will have to give up my single malt.

frostfire

08-21-2009, 01:32

Makes me want to deny my own heritage. What happened to the Scottish? What happened to the Highland Clans, and the Border Reivers? Hell...Guess Scotland is like the rest of the world now...no balls.

well, there is still the bayonet charge in Basra...and this :D
http://soundsofswc.com/files/01_Scotland_the_Brave.mp3

Mixed feelings over this...the Jean Valjean side of me like to believe that grace manifested in an act of compassion can transform even the hard liners or true believers.

dac

08-21-2009, 07:11

Dozer523

08-21-2009, 07:40

Like any other society the strong will always take advantage of the week As long as they use their time wisely.:D

greenberetTFS

08-21-2009, 13:43

Team Sergeant

08-21-2009, 16:20

Praetorian

08-21-2009, 16:46

Gypsy

08-21-2009, 17:36

I for one was glad to see that BO let the Scottish government know that he did not approve of this release. With his hard-line stance on terror and gitmo I can imagine how furious he was to see a terrorist go free.

You forgot the rolling eyes smilie.

Does anyone know if the UN wrote a stern letter?

This is so disgraceful. Disgusting. :mad:

Sigaba

08-21-2009, 19:59

Not sure if I would blame Scotland, as England is always in the background calling the shots.
From the online edition of the Daily Telegraph. Source is here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/6068629/Gordon-Browns-curious-silence-over-Lockerbie-bomber.html).

Gordon Brown's 'curious' silence over Lockerbie bomber
Gordon Brown was last night facing growing questions over his silence on the decision to allow the Lockerbie bomber to return home to Libya.

By James Kirkup, Political Correspondent
Published: 10:00PM BST 21 Aug 2009

Amid anger over the hero’s welcome granted to Ali Mohmed al Megrahi on his return to Libya after eight years in a Scottish jail, David Cameron said the Prime Minister must explain his view of the decision to release him.

Mr Brown has so far refused to comment on the decision of Scottish ministers to free on compassionate grounds the greatest mass murderer in British legal history.

Megrahi’s release has triggered criticism from President Barack Obama and many of the relatives of the 270 people killed in Lockerbie in 1988.

Mr Cameron has denounced the Scottish decision, and yesterday challenged the Prime Minister over his “curious” silence on the issue.

In a letter to Mr Brown, the Conservative leader said: “I believe that the public are entitled to know what you think of the decision to release Megrahi, and whether you consider it was right or wrong.”

Downing Street refused to comment, and David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary would not be drawn on whether the release itself was right or wrong, saying it was purely "a matter for the Scottish government".

UK Government insiders say it is proper for Mr Brown to stay silent on the issue because the devolution settlement that created the Scottish Parliament means the Lockerbie decision is entirely for Scottish ministers.

They also say that if Mr Brown did speak, he would be accused by Scottish Nationalists of interfering in Scottish affairs.

However, Mr Brown’s silence is feeding conspiracy theories around the release.

Critics, including the relatives of some of the Lockerbie victims, believe the UK Government somehow contrived Megrahi’s release in order to promote the interests of British energy companies in Libya.

Fuelling the conspiracy theories, Saif Islam Gaddafi, son of the Libyan leader, yesterday praised “the British and Scottish governments” over Megrahi’s release.

In 2007, Tony Blair concluded a prisoner transfer agreement with Libya. Many in Scotland suspected was intended to facilitate Megrahi’s release, although the final decision has always lain with the Scottish authorities.

Megrahi did make an application to Scottish minsters to be returned under the transfer agreement.

His decision this week to drop his appeal against his conviction – which ends any chance of a re-examination of the case – was regarded with suspicion by some Scottish politicians, who believe the UK Government brought private pressure to bear in the matter.

In the event, however, Scottish ministers rejected Megrahi’s application to return under the transfer agreement. Instead, they granted him compassionate release and his conviction stands.

Mr Cameron also raised questions about the UK Government’s role, telling Mr Brown: "We are entitled to know what you and your ministers have said to the Libyan authorities on this matter.”

Mr Miliband yesterday rejected as a "slur" the suggestion that the UK Government had wanted Megrahi to be released for commercial reason.

He said: "We have been scrupulous in saying this decision should be made by the Scottish authorities; we have been scrupulous in saying that to the Libyans, we have been scrupulous in saying that to the Americans.

"We certainly welcome the fact that over the past 10 years there have been significant changes in Libya's engagement with the international community. But it is wrong to say that in this case, the British Government has somehow put pressure on the Scottish authorities or anyone else."

Megrahi, 57, arrived home on Thursday night to be greeted by hundreds of Libyans waving flags and feting him as a hero.

In an embarrassment for Mr Brown, the celebrations came even after had asked the Libyans to avoid triumphalist displays on Megrahi’s return.

Mr Miliband said: “The sight of a mass murderer getting a hero's welcome in Tripoli is deeply upsetting, deeply distressing.”

Mr Cameron also said the celebrations were distressing.

A White House spokesman said: “It is disturbing to see images suggesting that Megrahi was accorded a hero's welcome instead of being treated as a convicted murderer.”

Despite the strong American criticism of the Scottish decision to free Megrahi, Alex Salmond, the Scottish First Minister, insisted that relations with the US will not be affected.

"The relationship between Scotland and the United States is deep and enduring and will continue to be deep and enduring.” Mr Salmond said.

"We can't have a relationship based on always agreeing with each other. We have to have the ability to disagree where our system takes us in a different direction.”

In regards to Mr. al-Megrahi's continued claims that he is innocent, the verdict of his trial is available here (http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2001/LAW/01/31/lockerbie.verdict.03/verdict.pdf).

Richard

08-21-2009, 20:01

AND ANOTHER THING!!!!

The situation is a lot more complicated than that and - as demonstrated - all sides appear to have come to a consensus that to effectively deal with it requires a coordinated effort of all available resources combined with an on-going, rigorous debate to adjust the use of those resouces as the situation dictates.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Sigaba

08-21-2009, 21:48

AND ANOTHER THING!!!!

There has been a policy debate in this country, for the last 15 years, about how to respond to terrorism.

One political party views it as an overt act of war, best left to the various branches of the armed forces to deal with.

The other political party insists it should be a criminal matter, left to law enforcement agencies and the Courts to sort out.

The injustice of this event should show the world why the criminal justice system is woefully unable to handle these acts of calculated mass murder, and should act as an anchor around the neck of the next politician who suggests we return to the latter policy.
Where would Bush the Younger fit into your matrix?

On June 9, 2005, in a speech on the Patriot Act, he pointed out:
We've made terrorism the top priority for law enforcement, and we've provided unprecedented resources to help folks like yourselves do their jobs.

Since 2001, we've more than tripled spending on homeland security; we've increased funding more than tenfold for the first-responders who protect our homeland. Law enforcement officers stand between our people and great danger, and we're making sure you have the tools necessary to do your job.*
Or, for that matter, where would you place Bush the Elder? On 27 January 1989, on the occasion of James A. Baker III being sworn in as secretary of state, the first President Bush said:
In another era, the Secretary of State's role was largely confined to matters of war and peace. Today's world is much more complex than that -- more dangerous, too. Today's Secretary of State must be prepared to work with our allies to solve such global threats as the international narcotics trade, terrorism, the degradation of the world's environment, and the economic distress of developing countries.**
For his part, in 1986, via proclamation, President Reagan affirmed his commitment to fight terrorism using all of the means of American power at his disposal.
The United States has a clear policy of combatting [sic] terrorism and of refusing to make concessions to terrorists. We have sought cooperation with all nations, on both a bilateral and a multilateral basis, to fight terrorism. We have put those who would instigate acts of terrorism against U.S. citizens or property on notice that we will vigorously confront this criminal behavior in every way -- diplomatically, economically, legally, and, when necessary, militarily. We have demonstrated our resolve.***

____________________________________
* Source is here (http://frwebgate1.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=90968482582+0+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve)
** Source is here (http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/research/public_papers.php?id=21&year=&month=).
*** Source is here (http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getdoc&DocId=5368&Index=*efd0fee5343905cffa0f0158ab4a751e&HitCount=13&hits=a+14+24+45+52+93+ad+b7+fd+129+14b+161+18f+&SearchForm=F%3a\Reagan_Public_Web\search\speeches\ speech_srch_form.html),

Praetorian

08-21-2009, 22:47

Where would Bush the Younger fit into your matrix?

Clearly Bush would be in the "its a war" camp. As commander in Chief he has used the U.S. Military to kill more terrorists than all other previous administrations combined have brought to justice.

Nobody argues that law enforcement has NO ROLE in the fight against terrorism. The most serious threat from terrorism is that which is staged and targeted within the borders of the U.S. and the posse comitatus generally prevents the military from being involved with that directly.... But one side does argue that the PRIMARY RESPONSE to international terrorism should be through Law Enforcement, with little or no role for the military. It has campaigned on that platform, and from what we've learned in the years since 9/11, for the 8 years of the Clinton administration governed as such. It was a "Nuisance" to be treated as such. With no real will to take the actions necessary to hunt down and punish those responsible.

John McCain on Terrorsim: Barack Obama's belief that we should treat terrorists as nothing more than common criminals demonstrates a stunning and alarming misunderstanding of the threat we face from radical Islamic extremism. Obama holds up the prosecution of the terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993 as a model for his administration, when in fact this failed approach of treating terrorism simply as a matter of law enforcement rather than a clear and present danger to the United States contributed to the tragedy of September 11th. This is change that will take us back to the failed policies of the past and every American should find this mindset troubling.

Bush on Terrorism : This war cannot be won, if we treat terrorism primarily as a matter of law enforcement. The lesson of this experience is: In this war, we must use all assets of national power to keep the pressure on the enemy, keep the terrorists on the run, and keep the American people safe from harm. August 20, 2008

Dick Cheney on Terrorism : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T55v_SDdUlQ

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kerry On Terrorism : Terrorism is primarily an intelligence and law enforcement operation that requires cooperation around the world — the very thing this [Bush] administration is worst at. http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/mccarthy200403300858.asp

Obama on Terrorsim : [L]et's take the example of Guantanamo. What we know is that, in previous terrorist attacks — for example, the first attack against the World Trade Center, we were able to arrest those responsible, put them on trial. They are currently in U.S. prisons, incapacitated.

And the fact that the administration has not tried to do that has created a situation where not only have we never actually put many of these folks on trial, but we have destroyed our credibility when it comes to rule of law all around the world, and given a huge boost to terrorist recruitment in countries that say, "Look, this is how the United States treats Muslims."

So that, I think, is an example of something that was unnecessary. We could have done the exact same thing, but done it in a way that was consistent with our laws.

As far as GHWB and Ronald Reagen go, I think they were both wrong on how they approached terrorism.... I put together a little flow chart showing how far back the "lets arrest them and put them in prison" (or worse. let somebody ELSE put them in prison) approach has been back-firing. MANY of those atrocities occurred during the time of their administrations. (These were just the ones that came to mind... I'm sure Ive missed a few...)

September 6, 1972- Black September murders eleven Olympic Athletes at the Munich games.

October 29, 1972 (52 days later)- The three surviving terrorists are released by Germany and sent to Libya in exchange for a “hijacked” Lufthansa Jet (It is later widely alleged that the “Hijacking” was staged by German officials as a ruse to rid themselves of the terrorists).

_______________

June 14, 1985 Hezbollah Hijacks TWA Flight 847, murdering one U.S. Navy sailor. In 1987, the only Hijacker to be arrested and tried for the murder of the sailor is convicted and sentenced to life in prison in Germany.

December 20, 2005- (18 years) Germany releases the hijacker and he is returned to Lebanon.

_______________________

October 7, 1985- The Palestine Liberation Front hijacks the Cruise ship Achille Lauro- Killing one American.

The Mastermind, Abu Abbas was immediately released by Italy (a few days in custody).
Two of the Hijackers were granted parole in 1991 (six years). A third in 1996 (11 Years).
_______________________

September 5, 1986- Abu Nidal Hijacks Pan Am flight 73, killing 20 and wounding 150 more. On July 6, 1988, Five of the Hijackers are sentenced to death by Pakistan.

January 4, 2004- (16 years later) Four of the hijackers are released by Pakistan and sent to Palestine.

_____________________

October 12, 2000- Al Qaeda bombs the U.S.S. Cole killing 19 American Sailors. September 29, 2004 Yeman sentences two members of Al Qaeda to death, and several others to various terms in prison.

February 23, 2006- (1,960 days) Those convicted of the U.S. S. Cole bombing (including those sentenced to death) “escape” from prison (I put escape in quotes as this is actually the SECOND time prisoners associated with the Cole Bombing escaped from Yemani custody). October 17, 2007- One of the escapees who is sentenced to death is recaptured by Yemani officials but released on condition that he not engage in terrorism any more.

-------------------------------------

Acts of terrorism for which NOBODY has ever been brought to justice-

April 18, 1983- Hezbollah suicide bomber destroys the U.S. Embassy in Beirut- 63 Killed

October 23, 1983- Hezbollah suicide truck bombs destroy the USMC barracks in Lebanon- 241 Killed

March 6, 1984- Beirut CIA Chief William Buckley kidnaped & murdered by Hezbollah.

February 17, 1988- USMC Colonel William Higgins kidnaped & murdered by Hezbollah.

June 25, 1996- Truck bomb destroys the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia- 20 Killed.

jlcoad

08-22-2009, 08:26

As long as they use their time wisely.:D

Well put.:)

I hate to admit that the spelling error was unintentional and so was the pun..
:o

Stras

08-22-2009, 08:37

How fitting would it have been for this guy to watch the pilots walk by him wearing parachutes and bail out at 25,000 ft. and then his TV monitor in the back of the seat in front of him turn on with a countdown of 10 min......

Razor

08-22-2009, 12:14

As long as they use their time wisely.:D

LOL!

Richard

08-22-2009, 12:17

In the event, however, Scottish ministers rejected Megrahi’s application to return under the transfer agreement. Instead, they granted him compassionate release and his conviction stands.

In pondering all this, the historian in me recalls some of the events of my generation - such as 2LT William Calley - who personally murdered 22 unarmed non-combatants and was the OIC of a platoon responsible for the deaths of over 500 unarmed non-combatants - including a number who were raped or mutilated - is sentenced by Court Martial to life imprisonment...but serves 3 years of 'house arrest' , never goes to prison, and never expresses remorse for his actions.

But I guess you woulda had to have been there.

There isn't any way to libel the human race.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

And so it goes...:(

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Pete

08-22-2009, 12:39

".... - such as 2LT William Calley - who personally murdered 22 unarmed non-combatants and was the OIC of a platoon responsible for the deaths of over 500 unarmed non-combatants -....."

"Ex-Vietnam lieutenant apologizes for massacre"

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MY_LAI_MASSACRE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

"COLUMBUS, Ga. (AP) -- Speaking in a soft, sometimes labored voice, the only U.S. Army officer convicted in the 1968 slayings of Vietnamese civilians at My Lai made an extraordinary public apology while speaking to a small group near the military base where he was court-martialed.

"There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai," William L. Calley told members of a local Kiwanis Club, the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer reported Friday. "I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry."....."

Richard

08-22-2009, 12:43

"There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai," William L. Calley told members of a local Kiwanis Club, the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer reported Friday. "I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry."

We can now correct the record - he has recently expressed remorse.

Richard

Dozer523

08-22-2009, 13:13

"Ex-Vietnam lieutenant apologizes for massacre" Last Week! 1968. . . 1978 . . .1988 . . .1998 . . .2008 . . . 2009.
41 YEARS to come to the conclusion he did a bad thing and should say so? Oh well, I feel better now.
Actually, NOW I feel bad. As a young 2LT in IOBC I took the advice of one of my instructors* to "go walk by the jewelry store his wife owns if you want to see a murderer who disgraced the Infantry, the United States Army and the Entire Country".
Lt Calley, please accept my sincerest apology for staring at you 32 years ago.

This is what you said, "I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry."....."
Didn't you mean, "I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who I murdered, for their families, for the American soldiers I led who were murderers, and their families. I am very sorry."....."

* This same instructor supposedly "accidentally" pushed a cinder-block out a 2nd story window on to the windshield of the new Corvette owned by a soon to be dismissed IOBC classmate.:D

incarcerated

08-23-2009, 13:56

Ten's of thousands dancing in the streets celebrating the release of a convicted terrorist, murdering coward bastard.

An "islamic" hero's welcome.

islam will never defeat the West, we will do that ourselves.

Bush had Gadhafi in check. Under BHO, it's a reversal of course: it's all about respect for Islam. And it seems to be contagious.
http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-08-23-voa10.cfm

Uproar Over Swiss Apology to Libya

By Lisa Schlein
Geneva
23 August 2009

Switzerland is in an uproar over the government's decision to apologize to Libyan leader, Muammar Gadhafi, for the arrest of his son and daughter-in-law last year in Geneva for abusing their domestic servants. Libya had demanded an apology as the price of re-establishing normal relations.
Criminal charges against Muammar Gadhafi's son, Hannibal and his pregnant daughter-in-law were dropped after the two abused domestic servants reached an out-of court settlement and withdrew their complaint.

Nevertheless, Libya was quick to retaliate against this insult. It arrested two Swiss businessmen, threatened to cut off crude oil deliveries, withdrew its money from Swiss banks, and told Swiss International Air Lines it could no longer fly to Tripoli.

Mr. Gadhafi demanded an apology for the so-called unjustified arrest of his son and daughter-in-law as the price for letting the Swiss nationals return home and for ending economic sanctions.

The government resisted this demand for more than a year. But, finally gave in. The Swiss president Hans-Rudolf Merz went to Tripoli to personally apologize to leader Gadhafi....

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The Leader of the Free World could have prevented this mass-murdering terrorist's release, except that we do not have one. We don't even have a Fearless Leader: we have a Leader Hopeful of Change who is eager to demonstrate the West's respect for Islam, and has made this respect a matter of national policy.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=280000#post280000

.

nmap

08-29-2009, 17:50

An update. It seems that BP found a Libyan oil field.

Imagine that. Politics and money intruded into the process.

LINK (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6814974.ece)

DURING the past year a small ship bristling with computers and seismic equipment has been crisscrossing the Gulf of Sidra, in the Mediterranean off the Libyan coast. Its mission: to help to find BP’s next offshore oilfields.

The company’s search for oil off Libya and in a 20,000-mile area in the west of the country potentially offers as much as £15 billion in new revenue. But less than two years ago it was feared that the deal could founder — and the reason was wrangling over Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi, the jailed Lockerbie bomber.

BP was finally given the go-ahead six weeks after a volte-face by the British government to include Megrahi in a prisoner transfer agreement with Libya under which prisoners could serve out sentences in their home countries. Jack Straw, the justice secretary, revealed this decision in a letter to his Scottish counterpart. He cited “wider negotiations” and the “overwhelming interests of the United Kingdom”.

Sources in the UK and Tripoli said last week that those wider interests included BP’s hoped-for share of Libya’s untapped oil and gas reserves. The decision to include Megrahi in the prisoner transfer arrangement was seen by Libyan officials as paving the way for his release — and BP’s much-coveted deal was finally ratified.

BP last week denied the agreement was influenced by talks over prisoner transfers and specifically Megrahi. But other sources insist the two were clearly linked. Saad Djebbar, an international lawyer who advises the Libyan government and who visited Megrahi in jail in Scotland, said: “No one was in any doubt that if alMegrahi died in a Scottish prison it would have serious repercussions for many years which would be to the disadvantage of British industry.”

Lord Mandelson, the business secretary, said last weekend: “The idea that the British government and the Libyan government would sit down and somehow barter over the freedom or the life of this Libyan prisoner and make it form part of some business deal ... it’s not only wrong, it’s completely implausible and actually quite offensive.”

The detailed correspondence seen by The Sunday Times confirms that the Lockerbie bomber’s fate was regarded by the UK government as pivotal to relations with Libya. It also shows how anxious the government was to curry favour with Colonel Muammar Gadaffi by being seen to open the way for Megrahi’s release.

The government now faces new questions over its exact role in trade talks and whether or not it favoured Megrahi. William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary, is calling for full disclosure of whether commercial contracts for oil were discussed as part of the negotiations for the Libya-UK prisoner transfer treaty.

In the 1980s — after the shooting of a British policewoman outside the Libyan embassy in London and the Lockerbie bombing which claimed 270 lives — Libya was an international outcast. But the past decade has seen a remarkable transformation, with the country dismantling its weapons of mass destruction.

Tony Blair helped with Gadaffi’s diplomatic rehabilitation, taking high-profile trips to Libya in 2004 and 2007. At the second meeting, when an unkempt and unshaven Gadaffi met Blair in a tent in the desert, it was announced that the two countries had agreed a memorandum of understanding covering civil and criminal legal co-operation, extradition and prison transfer.

Questions were immediately asked whether the arrangement would cover Megrahi, who was convicted in 2001 for taking part in the bombing and sentenced to life imprisonment. Downing Street insisted the agreement would not lead to his release. “The memorandum of understanding agreed with the Libyan government does not cover this case,” said a spokesman at the time.

During Blair’s 2007 visit, BP signed its exploration deal with Libya’s National Oil Corporation. “This is a welcome return to the country and represents a significant opportunity for both BP and Libya to deliver our long-term growth aspirations,” said Tony Hayward, BP group chief executive, who signed the contract with Blair looking on.

The prisoner transfer agreement — and specifically the fate of Megrahi — were inextricably linked with the BP deal. Six months after Blair’s trip, and with Gordon Brown in No 10, the Libyans were frustrated that the prisoner transfer agreement had not even been drafted. The BP contract was also waiting to be ratified.

The key reason for the delay in the prisoner transfer agreement was Megrahi. Lord Falconer, who was Blair’s justice secretary, had told the Scottish government in a letter on June 22, 2007 that “any prisoner transfer agreement with Libya could not cover al-Megrahi”.

Straw, appointed justice secretary by Brown, set out his favoured option for excluding Megrahi in another letter the following month.

The Libyans were furious and the BP deal — in which £545m would be spent on exploration alone — was an ace in their hand.

“Nobody doubted that Libya wanted BP and BP was confident its commitment would go through,” said Sir Richard Dalton, a former British ambassador to Libya and a director of the Libyan British Business Council. “But the timing of the final authority to spend real money on the ground was dependent on politics.”

The Libyans insisted that Megrahi must be covered by the prisoner transfer agreement. The government relented and Straw was forced into a U-turn. “I have not been able to secure an explicit exclusion,” he wrote in a letter to Kenny MacAskill, his Scottish counterpart.

“The wider negotiations with the Libyans are reaching a critical stage and in view of the overwhelming interests for the United Kingdom, I have agreed in this instance the [prisoner transfer agreement] should be in the standard form and not mention any individual.”

Six weeks later BP announced its deal had been ratified.

Negotiations over the release of Megrahi had been spearheaded by Gadaffi’s son, Saif. He was also courting influential figures and financiers in Russia, America and the UK to improve his country’s image and forge new business links.

Brown Lloyd James, a public relations firm with offices in London and New York, has opened an office in Tripoli. It is reported to have placed articles by Colonel Gadaffi in American newspapers. The firm would not comment last week.

One of the firm’s founders is Peter Brown, an old friend of Mandelson. The business secretary, who has stayed with Brown on the Caribbean island of St Barts, said this weekend that he could not recollect discussing Libya with anyone from Brown Lloyd James.

It is perhaps inevitable that the high-powered and wealthy figures who mix with Saif Gadaffi also pass through Mandelson’s orbit. Mutual associates include Lord Rothschild, his son Nat, and the Russian billionaire Oleg Deripaska, whose company Rusal has interests in Libya.

To Deripaska and Nat Rothschild, Saif Gadaffi is an invaluable business contact. They were invited to his 37th birthday party in Montenegro, where they are both investors in a new marina development.

There is some bafflement in Tripoli that British ministers are not talking up the possible business opportunities of an even more cordial relationship.

Djebbar said: “Britain can continue with this political absurdity [of recriminations] or get their businesses to take advantage of the goodwill towards them.”

Megrahi said public focus should be on identifying the perpetrators of the Lockerbie bombing. In an interview published yesterday, Megrahi, who insists he is innocent, said: “We all want to know the truth. I support the issue of a public inquiry. ”

incarcerated

09-03-2009, 00:57

A little more on Gaddafi, again in sharp contrast to his status during the Bush Administration:
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/53399

Parade of Despots Heading For New York

Wednesday, September 02, 2009
By Patrick Goodenough, International Editor
(CNSNews.com) – The usual September parade of world leaders descending on New York City for the opening of the annual United Nations General Assembly will be characterized this year by the presence of some of the world’s most controversial figures.

Likely to provoke the most ire this year will be Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, who plans his first visit ever to the United States at a time when his emergence from international isolation has been set back by the release of the Libyan convicted in the Lockerbie bombing. Of the 270 people killed when the New York-bound Pan Am Flight 103 was blown up after taking off from London in 1988, 189 were Americans.

Gaddafi’s plans to erect his customary Bedouin tent in the grounds of a property in New Jersey owned by the Libyan Embassy were shelved after locals protested.

But his presence will still be provocative, with families of Lockerbie victims and the American Libyan Freedom Alliance among those planning to protest.

The alliance, which says its objective is to promote democracy, human rights and the rule of law in Libya, said it had expressed its disappointment to U.S. and U.N. officials about the planned attendance by Gaddafi “despite all his well documented international and domestic crimes.”

Gaddafi, who on Tuesday marked the 40th anniversary of his seizure of power, is scheduled to speak after President Obama, in his capacity as chairman of the African Union.

....Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was one of the few non-African leaders to attend celebrations on Aug. 31, 2009 marking the 40th anniversary of the coup that brought Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi to power....

T-Rock

09-06-2009, 23:15

Considering Raila Odinga's biggest supporters were al-Qadhafi and Obama, I'm just curios how close their relationship actually is :confused:

Whitehall said US President Obama and Hillary Clinton's reaction to Abdelbaset Al Megrahi's release was 'disingenuous'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211495/No-10-turns-Obama-Clinton-criticising-decision-release-Lockerbie-bomber.html

So much for Obama's feigned response...

incarcerated

09-07-2009, 00:41

Considering Raila Odinga's biggest....

On first reading, I was sure that I'd had that, right after high school. It was pretty uncomfortable, and the dermatologist couldn't do a thing for it.
Then I did the Google search.
http://www.raila07.com/
He's got a little work to do on his use of the Teleprompter. We both know someone who can help him with that, and who probably owes Raila Odinga a favor.

T-Rock

09-07-2009, 02:02

On first reading, I was sure that I'd had that, right after high school. It was pretty uncomfortable, and the dermatologist couldn't do a thing for it.
:D

incarcerated

09-07-2009, 04:13

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8241393.stm

Libya's 30-year link to the IRA

Monday, 7 September 2009 10:15 UK
Links between the IRA and Libya can be traced back to 1972 when the country's leader Colonel Muammar Gaddafi first praised the group as allies in a struggle against Western imperialism.

Gaddafi later helped provide the IRA with the weaponry they needed to wage an armed campaign which lasted more than 30 years and claimed more than 1,000 lives.

It is not known when the first arms shipments began, but the relationship became public knowledge in March 1973 when the Irish Navy boarded a ship called the Claudia, off the coast of Waterford.

On board, they found five tonnes of weaponry supplied by the Libyan government and veteran IRA man, Joe Cahill.
....A year later, another boat was stopped on its way to Northern Ireland
The Eksund was carrying a massive haul of arms including 1,000 AK-47 machine guns, a million rounds of ammunition, more than 50 ground-to-air missiles and two tonnes of the powerful Czech-made explosive, Semtex....

incarcerated

09-24-2009, 23:34

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed1/idUSN24480443

US rethinks plans to give Libya $2.5 million in aid

Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:24am EDT
By Arshad Mohammed

NEW YORK, Sept 24 (Reuters) - The U.S. State Department said it is rethinking a decision to give $2.5 million in aid to Libya, including to foundations run by the Libyan leader's sons, after lawmakers on Thursday asked it to cancel the plan.

In a letter to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, two U.S. lawmakers said they were unwilling to give the aid because of the warm reception Tripoli recently gave a Libyan official convicted of involvement in the 1988 Lockerbie bombing.

They also accused Libyan leader Col. Muammar Gaddafi of showing "flagrant disrespect" for the 270 victims of the bombing during his visit to New York this week to attend the U.N. General Assembly.

"The celebration that President (Gaddafi) recently held in honor of ... the only man convicted in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, showed just how little remorse (he) has for the terrorist attacks that killed 270 civilians," Rep. Nita Lowey and Rep. Kay Granger wrote in a letter obtained by Reuters.

Lowey, a New York Democrat, chairs the influential House of Representatives appropriations subcommittee that oversees funding for the State Department and U.S. foreign assistance. Granger, of Texas, is the subcommittee's top Republican.

While the State Department could reject their request, as a practical matter it is unlikely to do so because of the power that the appropriations committee has over its budget.

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said the department was rethinking the funding, which two sources said had included $200,000 each for two foundations run by Gaddafi's sons.

One source said one foundation promoted civil society and the other women's empowerment.

"The decision to appropriate the money was made some time ago but, in light of recent events, we will be taking another look at these decisions," Crowley said.

The "recent events" was a reference to the celebratory reception Abdel Basset al-Megrahi received on his return to Libya last month after being freed by Scottish authorities on compassionate grounds because of his terminal cancer.

'IT IS ALL OVER'?

Gaddafi's U.S. visit has upset some family members of the Lockerbie victims who resented his unsuccessful efforts to get permission to pitch a Bedouin tent he likes to stay in in Central Park and in two other sites near New York City.

On Wednesday, Gaddafi delivered a rambling 94-minute speech to the U.N. General Assembly that touched on everything from the assassination of John F. Kennedy to swine flu and denounced the powers of the U.N. Security Council, which he said should be called the "Terror Council."

....Gaddafi also said he hoped to build a new era of relations with U.S. President Barack Obama and wanted to put his nation's long conflict with the United States in the past.

"As a case, the Lockerbie question: I would say it's come to an end, legally, politically, financially, it is all over," the newspaper quoted Gaddafi as saying. "I would say, thank Allah, that this problem has been solved to the satisfaction of all parties. We all feel the pain for such a tragedy."

He also made clear his desire for his country to benefit from Western technology.

"Libya does need the technology of the advanced world," Gaddafi said. "And if Libya wishes to develop itself, it must cooperate with the developed world."

SF-TX

07-16-2010, 10:49

:munchin Posted here in reference to post #59 & 60.Ex-prosecutor: Obama's Kenyan activities may be 'criminal'
McCarthy says Obama's foreign dealings as senator possibly illegal

In a new best-selling book connecting Islam and Obama-style socialism, a former top terrorism prosecutor chides the national media for failing to investigate Barack Obama's "borderline criminal" activities in Kenya as a U.S. senator.

Andrew C. McCarthy, the former U.S. attorney who investigated the American embassy bombing in Nairobi, Kenya, charges that Obama interfered in Kenya's internal politics possibly in violation of the Logan Act.

The centuries-old law bars Americans who are "without authority of the United States" from conducting relations "with any foreign government ... in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States."

In "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America," McCarthy says Obama undermined U.S. relations with a strong anti-terrorism ally in an African region where al-Qaida operates. In 2006, he details in the book how Obama campaigned for a pro-communist candidate running against Nairobi's pro-American government – "in outrageous contravention of U.S. policy and, probably, federal law."

Obama spent six days barnstorming the Kenyan countryside in support of Raila Odinga, the socialist Luo who was seeking the presidency. Appearing with Odinga at campaign stops, Obama gave speeches accusing the sitting Kenyan president of being corrupt and oppressive, leaving the masses in poverty.

Obama's interference "was more than reckless," McCarthy writes. "It was borderline criminal (and that's being generous)."

Earlier, Odinga had visited Obama in the U.S. – in 2004, 2005 and 2006 – and Obama had sent an adviser, Mark Lippert {Apparently, back on active duty with the Navy (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9B2DSR80&show_article=1)}, to Kenya in early 2006 to plan a trip by the senator timed to coincide with Odinga's campaign.

Read about the plans Islam has for America!

McCarthy notes that Obama and Odinga, who named one of his children after Fidel Castro, are "leftist soulmates" whose families go way back. Their fathers belonged to the same Luo tribe – and both Barack Hussein Obama Sr. and the elder Oginga Odinga worked inside the Kenyan government as communist agitators.

There is also an Islamist connection.

On Aug. 29, 2007, Raila Odinga signed a secret Memorandum of Understanding with Sheikh Abdullahi Abdi, chairman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum of Kenya. In exchange for Muslim support, Odinga agreed, among other things, to:

* Rewrite the national constitution to install shariah as the law in all "Muslim declared regions."

* Elevate Islam as "the only true religion" and give Islamic leaders an "oversight role to monitor activities of ALL other religions."

* Establish shariah courts in every Kenyan divisional headquarters.

* Ban Christian proselytism.

* Fire the police commissioner for "allow[ing] himself to be used by heathens and Zionists" to oppress Muslims.

* Adopt Islamic dress codes for women.

* Ban alcohol and pork.

Even with strong Muslim backing, Odinga (who does business with a wealthy Saudi donor to Osama bin Laden) was defeated in the December 2007 election. But he accused the incumbent president of rigging the vote and incited his supporters to riot in protest.

Over the next month, some 1,500 Kenyans were killed and more than 500,000 displaced – with most of the violence led by Muslims, who set churches ablaze and hacked Christians to death with machetes.

All the while, Odinga was in regular communications with Obama, who publicly called for an end to the violence.

"Odinga's strategy, the extortion strategy of Islamist intimidation, worked to a fare-thee-well," McCarthy notes in his book. To appease his angry mob of supporters, he was named prime minister and allowed to share power with the president.

"With Obama's helping hand, leftists and Islamists had combined forces to overwhelm a constitutional democracy," McCarthy says, while decrying the national media's "stubborn disinterest" in the "stunning" chain of events.

The same alliance can be seen in the U.S., he says, as the Obama administration reaches out to the radical Muslim Brotherhood, which according to the FBI, has a plan to infiltrate and sabotage the U.S. from within. Obama and other Alinsky "revolutionaries" are carrying out a similar plan, he maintains.

McCarthy says that while there's no evidence Obama is a practicing Muslim, he shares Muslim Brotherhood hatred for America and "the Muslim Brotherhood's sabotage strategy."

McCarthy says the administration ignores incontrovertible evidence tying Muslim Brotherhood front groups in America to Hamas and other terrorist groups. One of them, he notes, is the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which claims to be a benign civil-rights organization.

But he says the recent Holy Land Foundation trial – "and the eye-popping publication of 'Muslim Mafia'" – have exposed CAIR "as a farce." Quoting from "Muslim Mafia" – which he adds is an "important book" – the former top terrorism prosecutor further litigates the case against CAIR's "Hamas-tainted leaders."

In another bombshell, McCarthy reveals that he was dropped from the White House Christmas card list following his criticism of the Bush administration's purging of the words "jihad" and "Islamic terrorism" from the official military and homeland security lexicon.

Like President Bush before him, he says President Obama fails to grasp that Islam is not a "religion of peace" but "a huge part of the problem in combating 'violent extremism,'" which is the new euphemism for Islamic terrorism.

"To be sure, the same ground was staked out by his predecessor, President Bush," McCarthy argues. "They are (both) wrong."

"The need to deal with Islam is unavoidable," he adds, "not because it's an asset, but because it's a liability that can't be written off."

Link (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=179961)

greenberetTFS

07-16-2010, 13:40

What a terrible injustice to the relatives of those poor people who died on Pam Am flight 103..................... :( Pisses me off on how our English partners continue to f*^k us on maters such as this............... :mad:

Big Teddy :munchin

Ret10Echo

07-19-2010, 05:18

Bump...

16 July 2010 Last updated at 17:49 ET
Hillary Clinton raises Lockerbie bomber concerns

Megrahi was released by the Scottish justice minister in August last year
The US has raised concerns about the release of the Lockerbie bomber, after the foreign secretary said the decision to free him was "a mistake".

William Hague spoke to US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who said Britain may wish to explain the circumstances behind Abdelbaset al-Megrahi's release.

Four US senators believe oil giant BP lobbied for the move to secure a deal with Libya.

The Scottish government said Megrahi was freed on compassionate grounds.

It has denied having any contact with BP before its decision last year to release the Libyan intelligence officer convicted of the 1988 bombing which killed 270 people, most of them Americans.

Special hearings examining Megrahi's release will be held at Capitol Hill on 29 July.

The US Senate foreign relations committee said it would ask BP officials to testify after the company admitted lobbying the British government in 2007 over a prisoner transfer agreement (PTA) with Libya.

BP confirmed it did press for a PTA because it was aware that a delay might have "negative consequences" for UK commercial interests.

But the firm said it was not involved in any discussions regarding Megrahi's release.

The bomber was released in August by Scottish Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill because he was suffering terminal prostate cancer and was said to have as little as three months to live.

US State Department spokesman PJ Crowley called the Lockerbie bomber's release ''a mistake''

He had been sentenced to life imprisonment by a special Scottish court sitting in The Netherlands in 2001.

The fact that he is still alive nearly a year after his release has provoked fury among groups representing the Lockerbie victims.

Following the conversation between Mrs Clinton and Mr Hague, US State Department spokesman PJ Crowley said: "The secretary indicated that it might be appropriate for the British government to communicate with Congress as well to make sure that they fully understand what transpired a year ago."

He later told the BBC: "There were very legitimate questions raised about the medical information that led to the decision.

"People have raised questions about interactions between the UK government and BP over the negotiation of a prisoner transfer agreement.

"And we will look to the British government to help us fully understand the basis to the decision that led to Megrahi's release."

Foreign Office sources told the BBC Mr Hague reiterated the government's belief that the decision to release Megrahi was a mistake.

He said both he and Prime Minister David Cameron had been opposed to the move, but that it had been a decision solely for the Scottish administration and that there was no connection between Megrahi's release and BP.

'No contact'

A Scottish government spokesman has insisted that it acted independently.

He said: "The Scottish government had no contact from BP in relation to Mr Al-Megrahi.

The Pan Am jumbo jet exploded over Lockerbie, killing 270 people
"The issues being raised in the United States at present regarding BP refer to the Prisoner Transfer Agreement negotiated by the governments of the UK and Libya, and therefore have nothing to do with the decision on compassionate release which is a totally different process, based on entirely different criteria.

"We were always totally opposed to the prisoner transfer agreement negotiated between the UK and Libyan governments.

"The memorandum that led to the PTA was agreed without our knowledge and against our wishes."

Link is here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-10669618)

T-Rock

07-19-2010, 07:09

Obama spent six days barnstorming the Kenyan countryside in support of Raila Odinga,…

There is also an Islamist connection.

On Aug. 29, 2007, Raila Odinga signed a secret Memorandum of Understanding with Sheikh Abdullahi Abdi…

http://www.eakenya.org/AAEAKUpdate/RAILA_MUSLIM_MOU.pdf

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=afd_1223347895

Friends of Obama contributed around $$ 835,000 USD, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi contributed a large sum as well…

http://solomonsstables.org/writings/odingafinancepaper.pdf

Hillary Clinton raises Lockerbie bomber concerns

Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it - BP ?

Yet:
Mr Obama and Mrs Clinton were kept informed at all stages of discussions concerning Megrahi’s return.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211495/No-10-turns-Obama-Clinton-criticising-decision-release-Lockerbie-bomber.html

:confused: :munchin

Edited to add:

White House backed release of Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al-Megrahi

July 26, 2010

Correspondence obtained by The Sunday Times reveals the Obama administration considered compassionate release more palatable than locking up Abdel Baset al-Megrahi in a Libyan prison.

The intervention, which has angered US relatives of those who died in the attack, was made by Richard LeBaron, deputy head of the US embassy in London, a week before Megrahi was freed in August last year on grounds that he had terminal cancer.

The document, acquired by a well-placed US source, threatens to undermine US President Barack Obama's claim last week that all Americans were "surprised, disappointed and angry" to learn of Megrahi's release.

Source > http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/white-house-backed-release-of-lockerbie-bomber-abdel-baset-al-megrahi/story-e6frg6so-1225896741041

T-Rock

08-20-2010, 04:31

It has been a year, and he's still celebrating :mad:

Ret10Echo

08-20-2010, 14:35

There was brief mention in the British press concerning some "regret" concerning the terminology used to describe the condition. Accusation of some complicity in the prognosis...and actions immediately following.

The dangers of an MD declaring an absolute.

If this were anyone else it would be reason to celebrate.

(What color is irony??)

wet dog

09-25-2010, 14:13

Joe Curry was a fine young officer and a friend. We attended the Q Course together. He was dedicated, proficient, and had an interesting sense of humor.

Dozer, I didn't know you knew Cpt Joe Curry. Joe and I worked together at Eglin Air Force Base, FL for a short time.

T-Rock

12-04-2010, 01:19

:munchin

Lockerbie bomber's family to sue for false imprisonment and neglect, says Gaddafi

Colonel Gaddafi last night revealed the family of the Lockerbie bomber is *preparing a multi-million pound *compensation claim against *Britain for false imprisonment and medical neglect.

The Libyan dictator said the case against 58-year-old Abdelbaset al-Megrahi had ‘been fabricated and created by’ Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

His threat of legal action will outrage families of Lockerbie victims, already furious the former secret serviceman remains alive and living in Tripoli more than a year after he was released from jail in Scotland on the grounds that he had only a few months to live.

Gaddafi insisted that CIA agents – not Libya – had been behind the 1988 terrorist atrocity, which killed 270, a wild theory already advanced in a controversial documentary and a number of books.

‘These are the people who created this conspiracy,’ said Gaddafi, referring to the alleged role of former prime minister Baroness Thatcher and ex-U.S. President Mr Reagan in the life sentence al-Megrahi received for blowing up the Pan Am plane.

‘The charges directed towards Libya were based on unfounded evidence in an attempt to weaken the Libyan Revolution and limit its resources and abilities,’ he added.

Colonel Gaddafi, who was speaking to students at the London School of Economics (LSE) via a video-link, confirmed al-Megrahi remained ‘very ill’ with cancer.

‘He was released because he was considered dead, and yet he was still alive,’ said Gaddafi.

‘His health was not looked after in prison. He didn’t have any periodic examination. I wish him longevity.

‘After he passes away his family will demand compensation because he was deliberately neglected in prison.’

Libyan diplomatic officials who attended the LSE talk said that, based on similar cases, the *compensation could run into many millions of pounds.

Last night’s speech was said to have been ‘facilitated’ by Saif al-Gaddafi, the Libyan leader’s second son and likely heir, who has employed a PR company to present the face of a modern reforming state. *Saif has a doctorate from the LSE and a home in London.

The Foreign Office said it was studying the dictator’s remarks before it issued a formal response.

But last night Tory MPs said the prospect of al-Megrahi’s family launching a claim would add insult to injury for the bereaved.One, Douglas Carswell, said: ‘Legal action of this kind would be grotesquely offensive to those who lost loved ones.’

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335241/Lockerbie-bombers-family-sue-false-imprisonment-neglect-says-Gaddafi.html#

Masochist

12-04-2010, 11:32