View Full Version : Militia Groups on the Rise
Team Sergeant
08-12-2009, 10:14
This is amusing, look "who" wrote this "report" and look at who they think is the "worst" militia group.;)
Sorry "special agent" Bart McEntire of the ATF, I do not agree with you. (I also don't agree with what Randy Weaver did so don't lump me in that crowd)
I think people are tired of the US Constitution being used as toilet paper. Unlike the fearless men and women of the ATF I doubt the rise is based on race.
This "movement" has everything to do with a free capitalist country being taken over by some socialist left-wing group. And "socialized medicine" if it passes might be the "spark" that you're looking for.....
Waco and Ruby Ridge "did not" cause an unbelieveable run on guns and ammo like what we are currently seeing, IMO the people are preparing for a revolution, not a race war.
I do hope all the individuals in these Militia Groups DO NOT target "people", that is stupid and very unwise.
Team Sergeant
Independent Report Claims Militia Groups on the Rise
Wednesday, August 12, 2009
WASHINGTON — Militia groups with gripes against the government are regrouping across the country and could grow rapidly, according to an organization that tracks such trends.
The stress of a poor economy and a liberal administration led by a black president are among the causes for the recent rise, the report from the Southern Poverty Law Center says. Conspiracy theories about a secret Mexican plan to reclaim the Southwest are also growing amid the public debate about illegal immigration.
Bart McEntire, a special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told SPLC researchers that this is the most growth he's seen in more than a decade.
"All it's lacking is a spark," McEntire said in the report.
It's reminiscent of what was seen in the 1990s — right-wing militias, people ideologically against paying taxes and so-called "sovereign citizens" are popping up in large numbers, according to the report to be released Wednesday. The SPLC is a nonprofit civil rights group that, among other activities, investigates hate groups.
Last October, someone from the Ohio Militia posted a recruiting video on YouTube, billed as a "wake-up call" for America. It's been viewed more than 60,000 times.
"Things are bad, things are real bad, and it's going to be a lot worse," said the man on the video, who did not give his name. "Our country is in peril."
The man is holding an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle, and he encourages viewers to buy one.
While anti-government sentiment has been on the rise over the last two years, there aren't as many threats and violent acts at this point as there were in the 1990s, according to the report. That movement bore the likes of Timothy McVeigh, who in 1995 blew up a federal building in Oklahoma City and killed 168 people.
But McEntire fears it's only a matter of time.
These militias are concentrated in the Midwest, Pacific Northwest and the Deep South, according to Mark Potok, an SPLC staff director who co-wrote the report. Recruiting videos and other outreach on the Internet are on the rise, he said, and researchers from his center found at least 50 new groups in the last few months.
The militia movement of the 1990s gained traction with growing concerns about gun control, environmental laws and anything perceived as liberal government meddling.
The spark for that movement came in 1992 with an FBI standoff with white separatist Randall Weaver at Ruby Ridge, Idaho. Weaver's wife and son were killed by an FBI sniper. And in 1993, a 52-day standoff between federal agents and the Branch Davidian cult in Waco, Texas, resulted in nearly 80 deaths. These events rallied more people who became convinced that the government would murder its own citizens to promote its liberal agenda.
Now officials are seeing a new generation of activists, according to the report. The law center spotlights Edward Koernke, a Michigan man who hosts an Internet radio show about militias. His father, Mark, was a major figure in the 1990s militia movement and served six years in prison for charges including assaulting police.
Last year, officials warned about an increase in activity from militias in a five-year threat projection by the Homeland Security Department.
"White supremacists and militias are more violent and thus more likely to conduct mass-casualty attacks on the scale of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing," the threat projection said.
A series of domestic terrorism incidents over the past year have not been directly tied to organized militias, but the rhetoric behind some of the crimes are similar with that of the militia movement. For instance, the man charged with the April killings of three Pittsburgh police officers posted some of his views online. Richard Andrew Poplawski wrote that U.S. troops could be used against American citizens, and he thinks a gun ban could be coming.
The FBI's assistant director for counterterrorism, Michael Heimbach, said that law enforcement officials need to identify people who go beyond hateful rhetoric and decide to commit violent acts and crimes. Heimbach said one of the bigger challenges is identifying the lone-wolf offenders.
One alleged example of a lone-wolf offender is the 88-year-old man charged in the June shooting death of a guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington.
I believe the SPLC is simply stirring the pot to get some donations. Adding issues of ethnic conflict simply adds emotional energy, thus motivating more donations.
Back some years ago...1993 or so?...a friend of mine got to know some of the local militia types. He regaled me with stories of their activities; perhaps one of them will bring a smile.
The local group decided to have an overnight field training exercise. So they got permission to use a piece of land well outside of town and drove their various large vehicles to the location. They then set up tents, along with the generators and Coleman lanterns, and the BBQ grills. A good time was had by all. :rolleyes:
I suspect there are flaws in the approach, although I leave the specifics to those with better knowledge than my own.
I also suspect that the general population is still much too comfortable to sustain a serious effort to restore constitutional government. That may change (and in my opinion, will change), but we're not there yet. A fellow on Youtube waving a rifle is not nearly as significant as a group of folks getting together in a living room for a serious discussion of how to win a minor elective office at the local level. By the way - such discussions were the foundation of LBJ's political background.
As for a "spark"... that implies a unified set of objectives or goals - visceral, emotion-charged goals. A return to constitutional government seems rather abstract. I really don't see a widely shared issue that would meet this requirement. People rail about government debt - then go out and make use of the cash-for-clunkers program, which expands government debt! :confused:
As for a "spark"...
A national response to an NBC incident in a major metropolitan area resulting in mass casualties and ascribed to a terrorist/nationalist/fundamentalist (foreign or domestic) movement... :eek: :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
08-12-2009, 11:17
A national response to an NBC incident in a major metropolitan area resulting in mass casualties and ascribed to a terrorist/nationalist/fundamentalist (foreign or domestic) movement... :eek: :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I see that sort of incident as a uniter, rather than a divider. 9/11 brought us closer together, as Americans, rather than dividing us.
Now, if you were to outlaw civilian possession of certain types of firearms, that could do it.
TR
A national response to an NBC incident in a major metropolitan area resulting in mass casualties and ascribed to a foreign terrorist movement... :eek: :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Honestly, I don't think so. Let's consider 9/11 - not NBC, but a mass casualty event with foreign terrorists.
There was a certain amount of public outrage, but officialdom quickly interceded. I would find it difficult to imagine a scenario where officialdom didn't pull out all the stops to prevent the development of such a situation.
I keep thinking of a pattern - and I'd appreciate a critique of my thinking here - where a government tightens up over time, and then relaxes the controls. The danger point is immediately after that relaxation. It seemed to work that way in both the old USSR as well as Iran under the Shah.
A national response to an NBC incident in a major metropolitan area resulting in mass casualties and ascribed to a terrorist/nationalist/fundamentalist (foreign or domestic) movement... :eek: :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Christ Richard, my heart skipped a beat right there..... until thankfully, I realized you hadn't mentioned a "man caused disaster"
For the most part, 9-11 was a unifier - but there were still a number of internally divisive issues which still linger. I'm thinking here about the current national political climate of general mistrust and a paranoic response to perhaps over-react with a major usurpation of our constitutional rights - especially if the incident was tied to a movement with some sort of racially or theologically charged overtones.
I certainly don't see such a spark on the immediate horizon - but... :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I see that sort of incident as a uniter, rather than a divider. 9/11 brought us closer together, as Americans, rather than dividing us.
Now, if you were to outlaw civilian possession of certain types of firearms, that could do it.
TR
I would add that passing health care reform and making Illegals, legal despite overwhelming opposition. Lockout of town hall meetings and the potential for civil unrest from such an act. And for whatever reason the over hyped H1N1 and potential forced vaccination are a burning fuse in some circles.
As for the firearms, I am doubting they could all be confiscated in one day. So aside from those that wish to play Alamo, a large number would refuse by hiding them and end up in jail as a burden on the Tax Payer.
There are many issues weighing heavily on the minds Americans, so the question might be how much of a load will they carry before they say it is too much.
especially if the incident was tied to a movement with some sort of racially or theologically charged overtones.
And the MSM can and will paint that as they see fit in order to press their agenda......I don't trust their journalistic integrity in reporting the facts.
It will be interesting to see how this is dealt with, because if these factions ever organize sufficiently they will command attention, and they will be viewed not as lunatics but as some sort of patriots. With today’s vast communication networks, during an economic melt down, after long years of pondering who we are and what we wish to be, along with a general feeling among many citizens that something is not right, I am at a loss to think of a way the ATF or any agency would handle an organized standup of freedom lovers quietly and without a great shakeup of the status quo. Though perhaps the temporary answer is found in one of the very causes of the unrest, namely, to keep them poor, or more accurately, scraping by on the edge of disaster, tethered to a precarious job, stocked by debt and under the constant shadow of failure and humiliation. This seems like it will work for awhile, yet in time, numbers of men will give up trying to make it in this world and will risk all in an attempt to create one more in line with the promise of unburdened freedom. For a citizen should not be forced to plead with his fellows in an attempt to secure freedom democratically, this should be already upon our doorsteps, wrapped in the blood-cloth of our forefathers.
Claemore
08-12-2009, 14:16
I believe the passing of severe gun laws could be the spark. Their best hope was in the new assault weapons ban. But as Paslode alluded to, they won't, in my opinion, raid homes for illegal firearms. They learned their lesson on that one. They'll just wait for you to commit a traffic violation- kind of hard to start the revolution from the front seat of your pick-up truck. The frog will stay in the pot if the water started off as lukewarm.
But they certainly have the deck stacked against us now with the new Justice Socialistmayer, or whatever her or his name is. Doesn't matter how many Democrat senators are against it or not. If they are truly against gun bans. Which I don't think they are.
But they certainly have the deck stacked against us now with the new Justice Socialistmayer, or whatever her or his name is.
I believe you are referring to Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor.
Good day.
I believe the passing of severe gun laws could be the spark. Their best hope was in the new assault weapons ban. But as Paslode alluded to, they won't, in my opinion, raid homes for illegal firearms. They learned their lesson on that one. They'll just wait for you to commit a traffic violation- kind of hard to start the revolution from the front seat of your pick-up truck. The frog will stay in the pot if the water started off as lukewarm.
But they certainly have the deck stacked against us now with the new Justice Socialistmayer, or whatever her or his name is. Doesn't matter how many Democrat senators are against it or not. If they are truly against gun bans. Which I don't think they are.
The deck won't be stacked unless one of the Conservative Judges dies or retires while Obama is on office. Sotamayor did not change the "attitude" of the court. Simply one liberal judge being swapped out for another.
I believe the SPLC is simply stirring the pot
Just an observation from a not so wise old man: I watched when they came around in the early 90s "studying"alleged extremists in the community. The admin in Washington at the time gave them a lot of access to the inside. In my mind access that a non-govt entity not should have (sorry about the negatives). They have some friends in very high places.
v/r
phil
http://www.usdoj.gov/oig//special/9603/exec.htm
Here's an item from Celente - it's been published at the link below, so it seems reasonable to reproduce it here.
LINK (http://yonkerstribune.typepad.com/yonkers_tribune/2009/08/the-second-american-revolution-has-begun-by-gerald-celente.html)
August 12, 2009
The “Second American Revolution” Has Begun By Gerald Celente
Kingston, NY -- The natives are restless. The third shot of the “Second American Revolution” has been fired. History is being made. But just as with the first two shots, the third shot is not being heard.
America is seething. Not since the Civil War has anything like this happened. But the protests are either being intentionally downplayed or ignorantly misinterpreted.
The first shot was fired on April 15, 2009. Over 700 anti-tax rallies and “Tea Parties” erupted nationwide. Rather than acknowledge their significance, the general media either ignored or ridiculed both protests and protestors, playing on “tea bagging” for its sexual innuendo.
Initially President Obama said he was unaware of the tea parties. The White House later warned they could “mutate” into something “unhealthy.”
Shot #2 was fired on the Fourth of July, when throngs of citizens across the nation gathered to again protest “taxation without representation.” And as before, the demonstrations were branded right-wing mischief and dismissed.
The third volley, fired in early August, was aimed point blank at Senators and House members pitching President Obama’s health care reform package to constituents. In fiery town hall meetings, enraged citizens shouted down their elected representatives. It took a strong police presence and/or burly bodyguards to preserve a safe physical space between the politicians and irate townspeople.
The White House and the media have labeled protestors “conservative fringe elements,” or as players in staged events organized by Republican operatives that have been egged on by Fox news and right-wing radio show hosts.
In regard to this latest wave of outbursts, health industry interests opposed to any reform are also being blamed for inciting the public. But organized or spontaneous is not the issue. While most protestors exhibit little grasp of the complex 1000 page health care reform document (that nary a legislator has read either), their emotion is clearly real and un-staged.
Rightly or wrongly, the legislation is regarded as yet another straw on the already overloaded camel’s back. A series of gigantic, unpopular government-imposed (but taxpayer-financed) bailouts, buyouts, rescue and stimulus packages have been stuffed down the gullet of Americans. With no public platform to voice their opposition, options for citizens have been limited to fruitless petitions, e-mails and phone calls to Congress … all fielded by anonymous staff underlings.
Now, with Congress in recess and elected representatives less than a stone’s throw away, the public is exploding. The devil is not in the details of the heath care reform, the devil is the government mandating health care. Regardless of how the plan is pitched or what is being promised, to the public the legislation is yet another instance of big government taking another piece out of their lives and making them pay for it; again telling them what they can or cannot do.
Though in its early stages, the “Second American Revolution” is underway. Yet, what we forecast will become the most profound political trend of the century – the trend that will change the world – is still invisible to the same experts, authorities and pundits who didn’t see the financial crisis coming until the bottom fell out of the economy.
Trend Forecast: Conditions will continue to deteriorate. The global economy is terminally ill. The recession is in a brief remission, not the early stages of recovery. Cheap money, easy credit and unrestrained borrowing brought on an economic crisis that cannot be cured by monetary and fiscal policies that promote more cheap money, easy credit and unrestrained borrowing.
Nevertheless, Washington will continue to intervene, tax and exert control. Protests will escalate and riots will follow.
Fourth Shot of the “Second American Revolution”: While there are many wild cards that could light the fuse, The Trends Research Institute forecasts that if the threat of government-forced Swine Flu vaccinations is realized, it will be the fourth shot. Tens of millions will fight for their right to remain free and unvaccinated.
Publisher’s Note: The power of the Internet and new technologies is inexorably fermenting the “Second American Revolution.” However widespread and emotionally charged, had the tax rallies, tea parties and healthcare reform protests occurred in years past, they might have been covered by the local media, but might not have made national headline news and thus would have died stillborn.
Now, with the ubiquitous camera-equipped cell phone, universal access to YouTube, and millions of twitters and tweets, the uprisings cannot be ignored, contained, managed, spun or edited down. The revolutionary fervor will prove contagious.
Can anything stop it?
Trend Forecast: Before the momentum of the “Second American Revolution” becomes unstoppable, it could be derailed through some false flag event designed to deceive the public, or a genuine event or crisis capable of rallying the entire nation behind the President. In a worst-case scenario, according to Trends Research Institute Director, Gerald Celente, “Given the pattern of governments to parlay egregious failures into mega-failures, the classic trend they follow, when all else fails, is to take their nation to war."
A false flag attempt, a genuine crisis, or a declaration of war, may slow the momentum of the “Second American Revolution,” but nothing will stop it.
Learn more about The Trends Research Institute by visiting the www.TrendsResearch.com Website.
Team Sergeant
08-13-2009, 10:39
I think these guys are reading Professionalsoldiers.com :D
Conservative Groups Dismiss Report on Rise of Militias
Right-leaning groups say the evidence of a distinct rise in militia-type activity is spotty and that the Southern Poverty Law Center is unfairly lumping isolated extremists in the same category as those who are protesting the administration's economic and social policies.
By Judson Berger
FOXNews.com
Thursday, August 13, 2009
Conservative groups are rejecting as "anecdotal and exaggerated" a report out of the Southern Poverty Law Center that claims the election of a black president has fanned the flames of a resurgent anti-government "militia movement."
The SPLC report cited a recent rash of ideologically driven violent crimes, rising gun sales, a reported rise in the number of militia groups and level of activity and stern warnings from law enforcement officials about the potential for violence in concluding that "there are unmistakable signs of a revival" since the 1990s.
The assessment said Latino immigration, and particularly the election of President Obama, have injected a "strong racial element" into the opposition movement.
But right-leaning groups say the evidence of a distinct rise in militia activity is spotty and that the SPLC is unfairly lumping isolated extremists in the same category as those who are protesting the administration's economic and social policies, under the umbrella term "militia."
They add that the racism charge is bunk.
"I think it's utter nonsense to say it's racial," said Carter Clews, spokesman at Americans for Limited Government. Clews said Obama's "doctrinaire socialistic approach to government" has triggered a populist backlash, but "it's inappropriate to use the word militia."
The SPLC report came just four months after the Department of Homeland Security issued a controversial report on "right-wing extremists." That assessment carried many of the same themes and warnings as the new "militia" report, also warning that the election of the first black president could be exploited as a recruiting tool.
According to data ALG obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request, the DHS relied in large part on news articles, questionable Web sites and several already-public SPLC reports -- not official government sources -- in writing its "right-wing extremists" report.
William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration PAC, said the latest SPLC report suggests that DHS and the law center are relying largely on the same pool of information to make their claims about the rise in right-wing extremism.
"They are attempting to brand all right-of-center protesters as potential domestic terrorists or extremists," he said. "They are painting whole swaths of people as hate groups and extremists."
As for the purported rise in "militia" groups, which SPLC includes as part of the broader anti-government "Patriot" movement, Gheen said: "We're just not seeing it."
The SPLC assessment says that in fiscal 2008, the U.S. Marshals Service reported that 1,278 "threats and harassing communications" were made against officials like judges and prosecutors -- a number that SPLC said had more than doubled in the past six years. One unnamed law enforcement agency found 50 new militia training groups over the last two years, SPLC reported.
"I don't think it's at all isolated. We've got not only reports, all kinds of evidence of these groups," Mark Potok, director of the SPLC's Intelligence Project, told FOX News. He cited accounts of militia types training in the woods. "This is a kind of convergence of factors that are driving these groups."
He said it was "hogwash" to accuse his group of crying wolf, and that the report was not trying to undermine legitimate government criticism.
The report quoted a special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives who said anti-government sentiment is "bubbling." Another unnamed law enforcement source said he hadn't seen this much growth in activity in over a decade.
"All it's lacking is a spark. I think it's only a matter of time before you see threats and violence," the official is quoted saying, according to the report.
The study cited a rash of incidents, several of which have gotten heavy media attention, since late 2008. It listed 75 "plots, conspiracies and racist rampages" since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing -- 12 of them having occurred since 2008. The offenders include James von Brunn, the white supremacist charged with fatally shooting a security guard at Washington's Holocaust Memorial Museum in June, and Scott Roeder, the man charged with killing Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller in May.
But Clews said it's "absolute paranoia" to connect such incidents to a movement.
Critics also objected that the report linked the militia mentality to mainstream conservative figures and groups.
The study cited Texas Gov. Rick Perry's suggestion that Texas could secede from the U.S.; the controversial commentary of media hosts like FOX News' Glenn Beck and CNN's Lou Dobbs; the sovereign message of the anti-tax tea parties; and the anti-gun control posture of the National Rifle Association. The report said gun shows are "major venues for militia-like ideology."
Asked for comment on the report, NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons wrote in an e-mail to FOXNews.com: "It has zero accuracy."
NRA lobbyist Chris Cox issued a statement saying his group is a "patriotic organization of law-abiding American citizens."
"The individual, fundamental right of firearm ownership is deeply embedded in American history and supported by a broad cross-section of American society," he said.
Critics of the report said it also lacks hard data beyond the recent high-profile examples of clearly ideologically driven plots and attacks.
While asserting that 50 new militia groups have been identified, the SPLC report did not provide comparative figures to support its suggestion that the activity has spiked recently and has something to do with Obama.
According to SPLC's own statistics, the number of active hate groups and hate sites, not the same as militia groups, has been steadily on the rise since the start of the Bush administration.
The DHS had no comment on the law center's report.
The FBI released a general written statement on the dangers of domestic extremism, but did not provide public statistics to back up the claims in the SPLC report.
"It is important that law enforcement continues to gain the strongest possible understanding to allow us to better assess the domestic terrorism threat and identify those who would go beyond hateful rhetoric and extremist views to commit violent, criminal acts," Michael Heimbach, FBI assistant director for counterterrorism, said in the statement.
Heimbach said a big challenge remains finding the "so-called lone offenders."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/13/conservative-groups-dismiss-report-rise-militias-anecdotal/
The SPLC 'report' was being played up on the MSM networks last night - focus was lions and tigers and Timothy McVeighs...oh, my! :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
08-13-2009, 11:04
The SPLC can think and say what they want.
I am disappointed that the three recent reports they issued were bought into by the LEOs and Feds so readily, hook, line, and sinker and accepted as Gospel.
Whatever happened to analysis?
TR
Whatever happened to analysis?
Peaked with Freud, Frasier Crane, You're OK - I'm OK, and Dr Phil! :p
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Warrior-Mentor
08-13-2009, 11:15
Clearly advancing an agenda.
Good to arm yourself with an understanding of exactly how propagandists manipulate populations.
Which is why you should read the attachments from the Chapter on Spin in Alvin and Heidi Toffler's "War and Anti-War"
I've noticed the antiwar protesters have taken a siesta since Lord Obama took office. ;)
I've noticed the antiwar protesters have taken a siesta since Lord Obama took office.
From in front of the cameras, maybe, but they have been very active behind the scenes and are becoming angrier by the day because the POTUS is dragging his feet and hasn't ended the wars in SWA or Gitmo. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I see that sort of incident as a uniter, rather than a divider. 9/11 brought us closer together, as Americans, rather than dividing us.
Now, if you were to outlaw civilian possession of certain types of firearms, that could do it.
TR
I don't think it's going to be a outlaw of certain weapons I think they'll TRY to be sneaky about it and outlaw the ammo for said weapons. Or make it very difficult to afford.
6.8SPC_DUMP
08-13-2009, 12:59
For the most part, 9-11 was a unifier - but there were still a number of internally divisive issues which still linger.
I couldn't agree more that 9-11 was a unifier Sir: almost all wanted bloody revenge and some valiantly stepped up to aid in the effort. But I'm not sure I agree the "internally divisive issues" are the same as they were before the war started.
The war in Iraq didn't yield the results many who supported the war were hoping for. It couldn't have, because the reasons for many of them supporting it didn't pan out to be true (WMD, possible terrorist ties). This is saying nothing of the incredible work done by our Armed Forces and the extent of their sacrifises - because that's not my place. :lifter
But American lifes lost and our debt increased, with no immediate threat averted, is a hard pill to swollow when we just opened up the second largest oil resurves to the world (after 30 years) and can't afford to get the contracts ( ExxonMobil's low bid was $4.80/barrel and a British company took $2/barrel for a field that will earn Iraq about 1.7 trillion). China is set to benefit massively, as well, in their quest for self reliance.
I'm thinking here about the current national political climate of general mistrust and a paranoic response to perhaps over-react with a major usurpation of our constitutional rights - especially if the incident was tied to a movement with some sort of racially or theologically charged overtones.
I certainly don't see such a spark on the immediate horizon - but... :confused:
nmap beat me to it, but I also think if the Gov. has mandatory inoculations of a Swine Flu vaccine, that will set some ppl off - particularly some parents. Warnings from the WHO that they maybe unsafe makes getting it unsettling for me. Link (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23724398-details/Vaccine+for+swine+flu+may+be+unsafe+warns+WHO/article.do)
EO 13375 (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2005/pdf/05-6907.pdf) (2005) amendment EO 13295 to include Influenza Viruses Relating to Certain and Quarantinable Communicable Diseases. I think mandatory quarantining (other than ones home) will be a disaster, but I can't imagine it taking place.
Financially: I think that the reality of some of the richest people being the benefactors of the bailouts hasn't even set in. If even more wide spread bankruptcies take place, without letting them go further into debt; I can imagine resistance of losing the home they "own" due to failure to pay property taxes.
Also a big devaluation in the dollar might have the same effect.
I hope people put blame where blame is due: Fed regulation (which profits on our national debt and all POTUS' "support"), massive increases in Gov. spending, personal irresponsibility of people taking out 30 year mortgages they couldn't afford, banks giving these N.I.N.J.A loans (with adjustable rates) to unqualified candidates and the Fed again for not focusing the bailouts on improving America's self reliance (opting rather to give the money to the banks - and when it wasn't enough letting them speculate further with phoney market tools).
Only my .00000002
I don't think it's going to be a outlaw of certain weapons I think they'll TRY to be sneaky about it and outlaw the ammo for said weapons. Or make it very difficult to afford.
Yup. My rommate, his father and I bough together a reloading press and (a shitload of) supplies this year. Current ammo prices are 800$/1072 rounds of shit s.a 7.62x51 surplus. SK PMC M193 is 600$/1K. Also .45acp was not available in any store in the province of Quebec. Even gunranges and commercial reloaders were out. Unbelievable.
You can imagine, it makes it quite hard for the guy who just enjoy shooting guns.
Best way to kill legal gun ownership would be overtaxing ammo and making gunpowder illegal to sell to unlicensed individuals.
Praetorian
08-13-2009, 15:47
From in front of the cameras, maybe, but they have been very active behind the scenes and are becoming angrier by the day because the POTUS is dragging his feet and hasn't ended the wars in SWA or Gitmo. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Yeah.... I noticed the current cover of Rolling Stone (I dont usually pay attention to it)
"Obama so Far- Will he take bold action or Compromise too easily"
I didnt read the article but based on its authors (David Gergen, Paul Krugman and Michael Moore ) I assume by "Bold Action" they mean ramming healthcare down our throats, closing guitmo, and pulling the troops from Iraq & Afghanistan.
Surf n Turf
08-13-2009, 17:38
nmap beat me to it, but I also think if the Gov. has mandatory inoculations of a Swine Flu vaccine, that will set some ppl off - particularly some parents. Warnings from the WHO that they maybe unsafe makes getting it unsettling for me
EO 13375 (2005) amendment EO 13295 to include Influenza Viruses Relating to Certain and Quarantinable Communicable Diseases. I think mandatory quarantining (other than ones home) will be a disaster, but I can't imagine it taking place.
US District Court in NJ Issues Preliminary Injunction to Halt Mandatory Flu Vaccination
31 July 2009 - A Preliminary Injunction to stop mandatory vaccinations has been issued in the United States District Court of New Jersey. This comes after a federal lawsuit opposing forced vaccines was filed in that court by Tim Vawter, pro se attorney, on July 31st with the federal government as defendant. When the judge signs the Preliminary Injunction, it will stop the federal government from forcing anyone in any state to take flu vaccine against their will. It will also prevent a state or local government from forcibly vaccinating anyone, and forbid any person who is not vaccinated from being denied any services or constitutional rights. Vawter’s filings included a Complaint, and several pages of evidentiary Exhibits.
Preliminary Injunction will immediately halt mandatory vaccinations in the U.S.http://current.com/items/90662823_preliminary-injunction-to-halt-mandatory-flu-vaccination-in-the-u-s-has-been-issued.htm
Clearly advancing an agenda.
------with an understanding of exactly how propagandists manipulate populations.
The SPLC 'report' was being played up on the MSM networks last night - focus was lions and tigers and Timothy McVeighs...oh, my!
Richard's $.02
The SPLC may well be looking for something to come from the other side. It has been known to happen that an “agent provocateur” could apply the requisite “spark”.
** Added**A black man who pretended to be a white supremacist on the Internet has entered a guilty plea to charges that he issued death threats.
Hart now faces a maximum 5 years in prison and a fine of $250,0000.
Sentencing has been scheduled for November 18, 2009.
http://www.wwl.com/Man-guilty-of-posing-as-white-supremecists-and-iss/4993414
I think that it would be unsafe to be a SCOTUS conservative Justice -- sort of a revised version of "Pelican Brief" (My conspiracy Theory of the day)
Where is Lon Tomohisa Horiuchi when we need him.
We tend to focus on the spark. Leaders, ideology, etc. Without the existence of causation such motivation is benign. But the spark is what is on the surface, what is easy to see, to measure. We focus on the spark. It draws the eye.--- Robert C. Jones
SnT
This all seems to be snow balling fast. And I got to say I like it. I just wanted to say thanks to nmap for posting the bit from trendsreseach.com. Besides for being a good article, the site seems like an interesting resource and I will enjoy looking it over.
WM, Thank you heads up on “War and Anti-war”. One thought provoking statement: “In the fast onrushing future, not merely truth but reality itself may be a casualty of war.” In art, the irrelevancy of truth linked to reality is the definition of surrealism. It’s of some interest that the movement straddles two World Wars. The movement begns with super realism and ends in abstraction. Surrealism as hyper focused realism, is expressed by Dali and is considered in its realism:“unreal” ; is one end of the spectrum, and the abstract expressionism of Miro, viewed from a surrealist perspective, bookends the other. This projection of reality through a statement of what it is; rather than what is appears to be – splashes of three primary colors and two alternatives, is the contextual framing of truth and reality is what you are told it is. Seeing is no longer believing.
Obama's Safety: Fear Grows for President as Hate Groups Thrive on Racial Backlash
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8324481&page=1
Once again the comments section is very interesting.
The Reaper
08-14-2009, 09:04
Obama's Safety: Fear Grows for President as Hate Groups Thrive on Racial Backlash
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8324481&page=1
Once again the comments section is very interesting.
SPLC, the gift that keeps on giving to the liberal media.:rolleyes:
You would think that after the warnings about vets, Christians, and gun owners that they helped get published via the Federal government, someone would be reviewing their work with a critical eye by now.
Good thing that they don't have any Black Panthers or SEIU extremists attacking anyone for left-wing reasons.:rolleyes:
This isn't about race. It is about freedom, and ideology.
TR
Blitzzz (RIP)
08-14-2009, 10:22
The Race card is a blanket for these morons with out a clue to the reality. it immediately throws every oene else of the mark/real subject.
If anyone was to really give it much thought - BHO may be the most secure POTUS we've had in a long time because everybody's got a stake in keeping him alive to prevent Biden, Pelossi, Geithner, and Clinton from gaining the Oval Office. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Peregrino
08-14-2009, 20:27
If anyone was to really give it much thought - BHO may be the most secure POTUS we've had in a long time because everybody's got a stake in keeping him alive to prevent Biden, Pelossi, Geithner, and Clinton from gaining the Oval Office. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
That's just part of the picture. I sincerely hope he stays safe; the last thing any sane patriot wants is a Socialist Martyr. In fact I offer prayers for the poor bastards on his SS detail; I wish them every success in the performance of their duties. I want him to get through his one term unscathed and in "running wild, drunk with power, full liberal/progressive/socialist mode". The only way to start a recovery is to allow the left to discredit themselves and their agenda by their inevitable excesses. The American people are notoriously slow to arouse (probably a very good thing) but the Town Hall meetings and the Tea Parties give me hope that the tide may be turning.
He's worse than Carter, maybe we can get at least another Reagan.
Roguish Lawyer
08-14-2009, 20:40
Guys, he's not a Socialist. He's just a Radical Progressive. :rolleyes:
HowardCohodas
08-14-2009, 22:15
He's worse than Carter, maybe we can get at least another Reagan.
I am unable to name anyone on deck. You?