View Full Version : White House Warns Rush: Nazi Talk Puts You On "Thin Ice"
The heat is on! Interesting that it was OK when they did the same against President Bush...hypocrites...:rolleyes:
The White House struck back hard on Friday against conservative pundits and town hall protesters who have compared the President to Hitler and his policies to Nazism, saying that the critics are "on thin ice" and should "take that temperature down a bit."
Asked about the breakout of boisterous and occasionally violent protests at Democratic town hall events throughout the country, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs declared that the demonstrators were showing less civility and manners than his six-year-old daughter.
"Behave yourselves like your mom would probably tell you to do," Gibbs said when asked what piece of advice he would give to the demonstrators.
But it wasn't all fun and games for the Obama spokesman. Pressed on the analogies between Obama and Hitler that conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh made during Thursday's program, Gibbs' voice turned stern.
"I know the president feels strongly that we can discuss these issues without personally maligning... that we are doing so in a way that respects the dignity of each individual," he said. "I think anytime you make references to what happened in Germany in the 30's and 40's, I think you are talking about an event that has no equivalent. And I think anytime anyone ventures to compare anything to that, they are on thin ice, and it is best not employed."
"But I think what the most important thing is, is that we can have a discussion in our democracy about where we want to go," he added. "The president strongly believes we can do so without yelling at each other, pushing at each other or degrading each other. We have seen some stuff, I mentioned it a week ago, we have all seen imagery that just shocks and surprises us and I think the best thing to do is just take that temperature down a bit."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/07/white-house-warns-rush-na_n_254147.html
The president strongly believes we can do so without yelling at each other, pushing at each other or degrading each other.
They deserve a whole lot more for wanting to turn our beloved constitutional republic into a constitution-less socialist state.
"The president strongly believes we can do so without yelling at each other, pushing at each other or degrading each other.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/07/white-house-warns-rush-na_n_254147.html
Yet, that is exactly the same tactic the 'President' utilized and encouraged during his campaign and through out his years as a community organizer. It seems we're back to the 'do as I say not as I do,' version of policy making....:munchin
Gibbs says....."But I think what the most important thing is, is that we can have a discussion in our democracy about where we want to go," he added. "The president strongly believes we can do so without yelling at each other, pushing at each other or degrading each other. ...
And then Deputy CoC Jim Messina says ".....If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard,” Messina said, according to an official who attended the meeting. ......."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25891.html
Two Face or the Joker - You be the judge
FWIW - and I am certainly not a fan of BHO - I do agree with the necessity for civility in regards to open and worthwhile debate - the shrillness and overtly aggressive behaviors (tacky - as my Mom would say) of the people I've seen on the townhall meeting videos makes me shake my head in wearisome frustration - little to nothing will come of such flagrantly boorish behavior - except the loss of any moral high ground or real debate to the other side in these important matters - IMO these disrupters almost make Michael Moore seem (shudder...and I cannot believe I am saying this) rational in his silly anti-conservative monologues. :(
As is the case in countering radical Islamic or any other thought - better ideas, more persuasive arguments, and consistently moral behavior are needed to eventually carry the day - not inflexibility and vocal stridency.
IMO - the weight of an argument lies in the strength of its fundamental reasoning, not the volume of its speaker. ;)
MOO - YMMV
The people, and those who promote, the disruption of the town hall meetings sound a lot more like Abbie Hoffman and the Yippies than Republicans. The Republicans I know present coherent arguments based on facts. They don't need to resort to this type of behaviour. Truth, integrity and honesty are the best way to present an argument
Absolutely true, but that only works when both sides are open to reason and logic. When one side already knows what is best for you (whether you like it or not) it is hard to win an argument on merit. Half of his policies are all part of an effort to build a monument to himself so reason and logic are purely annoyances.
Ask anyone with an ex-wife.
I don't condone or appreciate what those people are doing, but I understand the sentiment. I think most republicans I talk to also are less hostile, but they also don't know what we can do to as a collective to get things "back on the right track".
FYI - here's what MoveOn.Org is saying and doing:
Dear MoveOn member,
It's getting ugly out there.
All across the country, right-wing extremists are disrupting congressional town-hall meetings with venomous attacks on President Obama's plans for health care and clean energy.
Last night in Tampa, Florida, a town hall meeting erupted into violence, with the police being called to break up fist fights and shoving matches.1
A Texas Democrat was shouted down by right-wing hecklers, many of whom admitted they didn't even live in his district.2
One North Carolina representative announced he wouldn't be holding any town-hall meetings after his office began receiving death threats.3
And in Maryland, protesters hung a Democratic congressman in effigy to oppose health-care reform.4
We've got a plan to fight back against these radical right-wingers. We've hired skilled grassroots organizers who are working with thousands of local volunteers to show Congress that ordinary Americans continue to support President Obama's agenda for change. And we're building new online tools to track events across the country and make sure MoveOn members turn out at each one.
But we need to scale up our efforts quickly to make sure this plan works. To really swing into action during this month's congressional recess, we need to raise at least $250,000 immediately. Can you chip in $25 to support our work?
https://pol.moveon.org/donate/august.html?id=16748-13679562-TMkWTLx&t=1
If the shouts of the right-wing mobs are the only voices our senators and representatives hear over the recess, we'll have a hard time passing health care and clean energy legislation.
That's why we're launching our Heat Up Congress campaign so quickly to fight back, using new technology to implement rapid response town hall turnout, organizing personal phone calls from small business leaders and donors to their representatives, running new ads, and activating an energized network of on-the-ground organizers and volunteers.
This month could decide the future of health care and clean energy in America—and we're already one week in. If you've been sitting on the sidelines, now's the time to get involved. Talk to your neighbors, go to a town hall meeting—and today, please chip in $25 to support our work:
https://pol.moveon.org/donate/august.html?id=16748-13679562-TMkWTLx&t=2
Thanks for all you do.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
ZooKeeper
08-07-2009, 21:52
IMO - the weight of an argument lies in the strength of its fundamental reasoning, not the volume of its speaker. ;)
I agree, but I think people are blowing up because their elected officials can not be reasoned with. These people live in a different world.
I don't like what I see on tv or the reports. It give congress & the administration more ammo, but I do like the passion I am seeing. People are starting to get active and pay attention to what is going on. It might be too little, too late.
Interesting how they react when they get hassled with their own tactics, then it is nearly a crime and those participating are 'Radicals', Right Wing Extremists' and on the 'Fringe'.
:rolleyes:
ZooKeeper
08-07-2009, 22:00
Interesting how they react when they get hassled with their own tactics, then it is nearly a crime and those participating are 'Radicals', Right Wing Extremists' and on the 'Fringe'.
:rolleyes:
Typical elitist...do as I say, not as I do.
Kinda reminds me of the Code Pink protests of the military in Berkerly, CA.:D
Stay safe.
I'm not one to condone rowdy behavior at a town meeting, but it can send a message though. The problem is not just how the voters react in the meeting, but who is reacting.
For these protests to really matter it needs to be democrats protesting democratic leaders in these disctricts. In some instances the protestors are from out of state, much less the wrong district (see NPR story 8-7-09 http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=111672556&m=111672536).
Ask your self this, "If I were a member of congress and people came into my town hall meeting disrupting the discussion with real voters, how would I react?" Regardless of your opinion or party you will want to know the opinion of only those who can actually vote for/against you.
No matter what people may say, real voters matter in the end to congressmen/women. By all means go to the meetings, but in your own district. Don't get rowdy, instead ask real/intelliget but tough questions. Demand answers, but don't allow anyone to make you look like a fool by becoming uncivil.
Another idea, use the pen or computer to make your statement. Healthcare reform looks to be the first time I will have written my senators and representative.
Use these to find where to mail it.
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
FCW
p.s. I don't believe that we can compare either former President Bush or President Obama to Adolf Hitler. I mean, the man had over 9 million people killed in concentration and death camps. Both presidents may be unpopular with certain groups, but neither can compare to the hell on earth Hilter created. That's just plain stupid.
HowardCohodas
08-08-2009, 03:56
p.s. I don't believe that we can compare either former President Bush or President Obama to Adolf Hitler. I mean, the man had over 9 million people killed in concentration and death camps. Both presidents may be unpopular with certain groups, but neither can compare to the hell on earth Hilter created. That's just plain stupid.
I know of no one who has made the comparison on the basis of the deeds, but they do make comparison to the beliefs and actions that led to the deeds.
I know of no one who has made the comparison on the basis of the deeds, but they do make comparison to the beliefs and actions that led to the deeds.
They would only do that if they had no real knowledge of who AH was, what he thought, what he was trying to do, and what he did - and I would certainly not be listening to anyone who thought the comparisons were valid.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
......- and I would certainly not be listening to anyone who thought the comparisons were valid.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Richard you should try it once in a while.
You have to listen to Rush, and mostly the entire show to get the point he's talking about. He'll spend and entire segment setting up what he'll be talking about in the next one.
And then from the next segment the MSN will pull a couple of lines and go "See! See! He's a nut case." Just like with the "I hope he fails" quote.
His point was he was showing how the left calls the right wingers Nazi's but the Nazi's were socialists.
A stuck pig squeals the loudest. And the D-s are squealing.
Rush does make some very good points, but you have to listen to 20 minutes of "Look how great I am, I was right about every thing I've ever said!" to get three minutes of real news-talk.
Then 7 minutes of commercials... :mad:
You have to listen to Rush, and mostly the entire show to get the point he's talking about. He'll spend and entire segment setting up what he'll be talking about in the next one.
I have listened to him on a number of occasions on advice of a few friends who are committed dittoheads - and have found him to be repetitively boorish as he sits on his electronic throne - pedantantic, pontificating, and pretentious - spending some two hours belaboring a minor point into near oblivion while receiving an on-going stream of facile flattery from callers he screens for approval and then favors with his feigned self-effacing recognition of their overt adulation. :rolleyes:
And then from the next segment the MSN will pull a couple of lines and go "See! See! He's a nut case." Just like with the "I hope he fails" quote.
But the grand radio poobah does exactly the same thing in formulating the theses of discussion for his daily radio show - which is why I found him to be particularly shallow and - yawn - extremely boring to listen to.
His point was he was showing how the left calls the right wingers Nazi's but the Nazi's were socialists.
Neither are Nazi's - and the Nazi's were not socialists - they were Fascists - a much different ideology - therefore RL is WRONG and filling people's minds with, at best, misinformation or, if willful, dangerous disinformation. :eek: :mad:
A stuck pig squeals the loudest. And the D-s are squealing.
MOO - both sides have plenty of reasons to be squealing equally loudly at this juncture of time...and they are. Guess they both feel as Jim Hightower stated when talking about politics in Texas - "Ain't nothin' in the middle of the road except yellow lines and dead Armadilloes." YMMV
Richard's $.02 :munchin
So I take it you didn't listen to him the other day?
OK, then continue talking about what he said.
And by the way, could you explain what a ditto head is?
HowardCohodas
08-08-2009, 08:37
Things that make you go hmmmmm.
Fascism - definition
A totalitarian philosophy of government that glorifies the state and nation and assigns to the state control over every aspect of national life. The name was first used by the party started by Benito Mussolini , who ruled Italy from 1922 until the Italian defeat in World War II. However, it has also been applied to similar ideologies in other countries, e.g., to National Socialism in Germany and to the regime of Francisco Franco in Spain.
TrapLine
08-08-2009, 08:46
Interesting how they react when they get hassled with their own tactics, then it is nearly a crime and those participating are 'Radicals', Right Wing Extremists' and on the 'Fringe'.
:rolleyes:
I may be wrong or even blinded by my own "extremism," but I do not remember seeing this outrage when Code Pink employed these tactics.
To cite and defend RL without knowing the definition of a dittohead is telling. ;)
His point was he was showing how the left calls the right wingers Nazi's but the Nazi's were socialists.
To equate socialism with fascism* without, apparently, understanding or recognizing by pointing out the importance of the specific differrences between the two, is equally as telling.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
* National Socialism was a term coined by the Nazis for their fascist movement because of its historical and psychological relevance to the German peoples. Both NS and Nazi were official abbreviations for the NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) in Nazi Germany. The Nazis feared and aggressively persecuted socialists who espoused socialism as we think of it.
To cite and defend RL without knowing the definition of a dittohead is telling......
Richard;
You are usually the calm one here. The person who pokes us with facts and reminds us not to go off all "knee jerk". Not to take things at face value, look behind the front page. You sometimes make us uncomfortable.
But we are now spliting hairs over a radio program that you did not listen to. You have placed your own context onto something you did not listen to but got your information on it from a short blurb from somebody else. You appear to have projected your person feelings about Rush and his show into an opinion of something you did not hear.
By the way, I do know what a ditto head is. I was just wondering if you did.
Pete,
Thanks for the glass of cold water in the face - I needed it. :)
FWIW - I have tried to listen to RL - first listened to him when in Europe in the early 90s and listened to him and Michael Savage daily Mon-Fri for 2 months while working to clear the ranch property out in CA last winter just after BHO took office - after a week of listening to them, the pattern and tone of their programs became pretty obvious - I found them entertaining in a comical sense, less so in any sort of worthwhile commentary of the sort I personally find thought-provoking from the likes of a Victor Davis Hanson.
I apologize for the diatribe - and thanks, again.
And so it goes... ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Whether you hate or love Rush, there is one point to always keep in mind. His legal defense is, by his own declaration, to the effect of he doesn't have to tell the truth because he is not a journalist. He is an entertainer.
have found him to be repetitively boorish as he sits on his electronic throne - pedantantic, pontificating, and pretentious -
Now that describes the majority of talk show hosts, as well as most MSM and conservative news anchor persons.
THEN there are those pseudo political anchor persons who have to explain and interpret what the (any) president said after an important adress.
Course with me mebbe I need this interpretation, being just an ole boy from back here in the holler next to the crick.
I will however listen to the Limbaughs, O'Reilly and somewhat extremist Ann Coulter. I will also listen to the MSM anchors and others like Lou Dobbs.
I'll then make my own decisions.
Whether you hate or love Rush, there is one point to always keep in mind. His legal defense is, by his own declaration, to the effect of he doesn't have to tell the truth because he is not a journalist. He is an entertainer.
You would be hard pressed to find something he lied about.
If he did the libs would be all over him.
The best they can get on him is quoting him out of context, repeating something on him that was posted on a blog by somebody who didn't listen to the show or bringing up his ex-wives, drug use and weight.
Perhaps the message, both in terms of style and content, varies with both the desired ends and the audience.
Hyperbole and egregious claims - delivered in an appropriate way and directed toward a suitable audience - can serve to direct and motivate a variety of actions. Those who agree with the ends of the messenger and the tactics will be pleased. Others who oppose the message, tactics, or both will feel otherwise. They may be offended and incensed.
We see this with the old discussions of George Bush. It was all the rage to use terms such as "Bushitler" and to create artwork that depicted the President as Hitler. The present rhetorical tactics are similar. And I suspect whoever is elected POTUS in 2016 will, by 2017, be compared to Hitler. For someone without children, the Fuhrer seems to have had many offspring. ;)
In my opinion, the people of this forum are smarter (by far) than are the masses. Many here are trained to see the substance behind the words; thus, comparisons of the current POTUS to Hitler fail. But, as I mentioned, such messages are not intended for you, good reader, or I. Those messages, when directed toward the receptive, work as intended.
But is that good? Yes - if one agrees with the ultimate goal of the message. If one wishes to impede the progression of the current administration toward its goals, then directing the emotions, and hence the energy, of the mass of people is worthwhile. It is a tactic that works - as I suspect certain members of this forum could attest. On the other hand, for those who prefer to see the administration advance its agenda, the tactics are bad.
Perhaps there are risks, as discussed in the martial law thread. Emotions may become raw, and the energy of the mass of people can lead to unexpected, and perhaps unwanted, ends. However, that said - if those who oppose the current agenda wish to accomplish their ends, then strong rhetoric, disruptive behavior, and a variety of incivility will probably be necessary. These are the same approaches promulgated by Ayers, as well as a variety of leftist organizations. They have worked for over half-a-century, and I suspect will continue to work in the future.
Here's an example, quoted from a scholarly paper, with citation:
In the summer of 1968 H&ctor Ramirez, an Edcouch-Elsa High School student who had just complete his junior year, found a ride to Michigan with a local family, that made the trip every year as mrigrant farm workers. Hector's destination was not the fields of southwestern Michigan; instead, he went to Detroit to work on an automobile assembly line. As Hector worked in the factory that summer, he learned firsthand how powerful, organized labor unions addressed unsatisfactory working conditions. He learned lessons in organizing, planning, and mobilizing people as he came into contact with labor leaders.The labor experience in Detroit would transform him. He returned to South Texas early that fall with a new awareness of the power of mass organization. Hector acted as a principal leader of the Edcouch-Elsa High School Walkoutof 1968.
On the morning of November 14, 1968, at precisely 8:10, a number of Mexican American student protesters stormed out of the classrooms chanting "Walkout! Walkout!" thus igniting a massive student boycott of Edcouch-Elsa High School. More than 150 students followed as they chanted phrases of protest against what they charged was an unjust educational system. TheEdcouch-Elsa High School Walkout of 1968 became the tipping point (Gladwell, 2000) in a shift of power from White (AngloAmerican) to brown (Mexican American) in south Texas. After decades of a dominant segregationist culture throughout the region, Mexican American high school students in this agricultural community forcefully challenged the power structure in the schools and in the community at large. (Guajardo, M. A. & Guajardo, F. J.,2004,p. 506)
Others have said one should study the other side's tactics, improve upon them, and use them. I think they're right.
So, bottom line, the POTUS is nothing like Hitler. Cthulhu, though, that's another matter. :D
References:
Guajardo, M. A., & Guajardo, F. J. (2004). The Impact of Brown on the Brown of South Texas: A Micropolitical Perspective on the Education of Mexican Americans in a South Texas Community. American Educational Research Journal, 41(3), 501-526.
Utah Bob
08-09-2009, 14:38
I am incensed that anyone would compare Obama and his administration to Schickelgruber and the National Socialist's.
He's much more Stalinesque. :munchin
Still think he looks like Mussolini, standing on the balcony with his chin in the air.
In my opinion, the people of this forum are smarter (by far) than are the masses. Many here are trained to see the substance behind the words; thus, comparisons of the current POTUS to Hitler fail. But, as I mentioned, such messages are not intended for you, good reader, or I. Those messages, when directed toward the receptive, work as intended.
But is that good? Yes - if one agrees with the ultimate goal of the message. If one wishes to impede the progression of the current administration toward its goals, then directing the emotions, and hence the energy, of the mass of people is worthwhile. It is a tactic that works - as I suspect certain members of this forum could attest. On the other hand, for those who prefer to see the administration advance its agenda, the tactics are bad.
Perhaps there are risks, as discussed in the martial law thread. Emotions may become raw, and the energy of the mass of people can lead to unexpected, and perhaps unwanted, ends. However, that said - if those who oppose the current agenda wish to accomplish their ends, then strong rhetoric, disruptive behavior, and a variety of incivility will probably be necessary. These are the same approaches promulgated by Ayers, as well as a variety of leftist organizations. They have worked for over half-a-century, and I suspect will continue to work in the future.Others have said one should study the other side's tactics, improve upon them, and use them. I think they're right.
So, bottom line, the POTUS is nothing like Hitler.
I believe that your assessment is dead on. However, I personally disagree that we should use comparisons like Hitler to the administration as a way to incite the masses. As the few who refuse to allow others to think for us, but instead educate ourselves about the issues; I don't think we should participate in the strong rhetoric, disruptive behavior, and a variety of incivility just to influence a few.
I have never appreciated the attempt to use my emotions against myself and therefore, personally, cannot attempt such against my fellow citizens. This is merely my opinion. I do not doubt that the tactic works, but I will refrain from employing it.
FCW
Red Flag 1
08-09-2009, 18:58
Still think he looks like Mussolini, standing on the balcony with his chin in the air.
Now there is no call to insult Italians:D.
Mussolini had a clear plan that he declared to the world, right or wrong; he was also more "robust" in his public presentation.
I just spoke with " Uncle Nunzio" on you behalf, you owe me a beer amigo; Peroni if you please:D:D
RF 1
I just spoke with " Uncle Nunzio" on you behalf, you owe me a beer amigo; Peroni if you please:D:D
RF 1
I actually have an Uncle Nunzio, he was my Godfather. ;) Well...I did until he passed.
So while the conservatives are simply showing up to talk/discuss their disgust and/or dismay, the White House has to mobilize their grass roots efforts with emails and instructions for their bots on how to speak, what to wear etc etc. What, they don't know how to do this...? :rolleyes:
....So while the conservatives are simply showing up to talk/discuss their disgust and/or dismay, the White House has to mobilize their grass roots efforts with emails and instructions.......
I'd say most conservatives don't follow political activity in their districts all that much. For the most part they are WORKING!
As with the Tea Parties, these town halls are starting to get kicked around a little more than usual. People on the right, slow to pick up new technology, are starting to get with it and pass the word.
Even outside bringing in the trash cans I'll get a "did you hear about" from one of the neighbors.
So to be fair - conservatives are just not "simply showing up" anymore. The word is getting out and more people are taking the time to show up.
Cthulhu, though, that's another matter.
The word is that the big squid has formed an exploratory committee to consider a run for the Oval Office in 2012. Rumor has it that Xiombarg has the inside track for the VP slot.:(
They already have a campaign slogan: "Why choose the lesser evil?"
I'd say most conservatives don't follow political activity in their districts all that much. For the most part they are WORKING!
As with the Tea Parties, these town halls are starting to get kicked around a little more than usual. People on the right, slow to pick up new technology, are starting to get with it and pass the word.
Even outside bringing in the trash cans I'll get a "did you hear about" from one of the neighbors.
So to be fair - conservatives are just not "simply showing up" anymore. The word is getting out and more people are taking the time to show up.
I believe we're saying the same thing...I think. :D I wasn't being disparaging about the conservatives because I am glad to see more of them taking time to show up, speak up and in fact are doing so without a formal director...vice the instructions being emailed from the White House to the dims....to show up!