View Full Version : Arlington's Grave Injustice
WTF... :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Arlington's Grave Injustice
Kimberly Dozer, CBS News, 17 Jul 2009
Families visiting Arlington National Cemetery may be paying their respects at the wrong grave sites.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5167685n&tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea;cbsnewsMainColumnArea.0
The Commander should be drawn and quartered. There is no reason this should be going on in this day and age. That is so disrespectful to our fallen Hero's and their families.
I hope she gets a bundle for what they did to her. That may drive the point home...... She was not even a whistle blower she just brought it up.
I am sure there is more to it and there is always 2 sides to every story but it sounds wrong....:confused::mad:
When I visited the cemetery last week, the visitor's center had a kiosk where one could look up the headstone location of anyone interred since 1999, and a manned office to help locate the markers of those buried before that date. I was able to find a number of graves, including COL Moroney's, fairly easily using the kiosk. I can't speak to the accuracy of matching graves to stones, but it appeared to me that there were legitimate efforts being made to automate the stone locator process. I was impressed by the stone numbering system--without it, I can't begin to imagine trying to find an individual grave in some of the larger, older sections.
As to the 'momento' complaint, I would challenge those complaining to find another cemetery, military or civilian, that collects, catalogs and permanently stores items left at headstones. The VN memorial isn't a cemetery, its a group monument, so that analogy made in the news report is misleading. Again, during my visit I didn't note any rotting or excessively old flower arrangements. In Section 60, where most of the newest graves are located, there were a great deal of small momentos left by visitors on and around the stones, such as glass beads, dogtags, unit crests and photos, and they appeared undisturbed for the most part. Beyond the rare flower arrangement left by a recent visitor, older graves had no momentos to speak of.
Other random observations:
I was surprised by the wide variety of religious affiliation symbols on the newer markers. In addition to the standard Christian and Jewish symbols, I can recall at least 10 other symbols on stones, many of which I didn't recognize.
One other thing of note was what appeared to be the new marker for MOH recipients. SFC Paul Smith's stone (which wasn't in Section 60 for some reason) was like all the other, older markers for MOH earners (the standard stone with a MOH symbol and the MOH listed as an award), but SPC McGinnis' stone had a gold-colored inlay of all the engraving. It certainly made the stone stand out, something that will catch the eye of those that aren't aware of the MOH symbol found on the older MOH earner markers.
The cemetery staff is planting rows of trees among the new areas of Section 60, as well as in other adjoining areas, apparently in an effort to provide shade and keep continuity with other wooded areas of the cemetery. I thought it was a nice touch.
I noticed a cemetery worker using a long pry bar and bubble level to straighten a marker in an older section that didn't appear to get many visitors. He was putting a great deal of effort into being precise. If that's any indicator of the care the staff takes of the cemetery as a whole, I'm not too concerned about how our deceased heroes are being treated there.
The Tomb Guards are still doing a great job and representing our Army very well to the GAP (Great American Public). I was rather surprised at how quiet and reverent the crowds at the Tomb were, even during the times between the changing of the Guard.
I didn't realize the large number of spouses and families buried with their vets.
Putting L'Enfant's grave on the hill next to the Custis House, overlooking the city he designed was a fitting location, IMO.
Visiting Arlington is always a sobering visual reminder of the real cost of freedom, especially when you consider that all those graves are only a small fraction of those that have stepped up over history to protect our nation and its ideals.
"CBS" May be" "Former Employee"
Told me all I needed to know up front.
Why didn't the former employee speak up when he/she was an employee?
Why didn't the former employee speak up when he/she was an employee?
Isn't that why she was fired two days after reporting it to the CG? :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Isn't that why she was fired two days after reporting it to the CG? :confused:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Richard;
You're the one that points out that we should not fall for the knee jerk reaction. I just find the Bang, Bang, Bang here is the story from CBS a little too pat. I'll wait for the rest of the story on this one.
Remember - Fake, but accurate.
You're the one that points out that we should not fall for the knee jerk reaction. I just find the Bang, Bang, Bang here is the story from CBS a little too pat. I'll wait for the rest of the story on this one.
Remember - Fake, but accurate.
Which is why my original post is just questioning the reported issues - I agree the artifacts part of the piece comes across as more of a whine than an issue and is really of no interest to me - but the misrecorded interments issue was apparently admitted by Arlington and they said they've been working on a program to automate it - doesn't sound too promising if it's been going on for as long as claimed - the one issue I have with that part of the report is the absence of numbers of misrecorded graves - although 1 is not an acceptable number for a family with a relative buried there - I'm waiting for the rest of this story, too - and I bet Arlington will place a higher FAD on getting their system updated after this report. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Dozer523
07-17-2009, 21:12
The memento thing really bugs me. That things are left at all. I live near the Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery. We went there for the Memorial Day Service and the beautiful symmetry of the markers was only enhanced by the flags placed by dozens of groups (especially) Boy Scouts.
As I drove the lanes and walked the paths following the service, the beauty and peacefullness literally overwhelmed me. I was awed by the makers predating the Civil War (to include more then 200 for Confederate Soldiers) and all the wars and conflicts since. But the "mementos" of teddy bears and bottles of rum and assorted family pictures and packs of cigarettes were not in keeping with the sence of reverence that washed over me. I was offended by it. Offended that the living friends of our fallen brothers would highlight their drinking habits to "honor" them. That there was no thought to the families who might visit the nearby interned. It is not appropriate. Soldier (all military) interned lived their lives following the dress and bearing standards of their services. I think that same "spit and polish", "dress, right, dress" is deserved in death. $0.02
I've read and seen in movies (Schlindler's List) that it is traditional in Jewish cemeteries for a visitor to leave a small pebble to commemorate the visit. An innocuous pebble to note that this loved and respected person was visited.
BTW I asked one of the grounds crew what happens to all the flags after the Holiday is passed. He smiled and sort of groaned. "hundreds arrive to place them but it's us 25 or so who take them up." (They are dried; inspected and rolled in bundles of 25 and then stored. The average flag sees 9 Memorial Days.) The next day I had about 10 Guardsmen and Cadets in the Armory. We drove down and spent the day removing flags. It was a cloudy, wet day (it did not rain on us) we were practically alone except for the 10 or 11 internments. It was quiet, individual work (more tiring then you would think) but offered a great chance for reflection and introspection. Many of the younger guys finally started to "get it". One of our cadets made the comment "everyone of these guys was led by someone like us." I thought, 'Yeah, don't forget that after commissioning."
I was surprised by the wide variety of religious affiliation symbols on the newer markers. In addition to the standard Christian and Jewish symbols, I can recall at least 10 other symbols on stones, many of which I didn't recognize.
Several years ago I did some research on Arlington and unfortunately I cannot remember when the choices changed, but in recent years there is more variety among not only faith emblems, but among the Christian denominations themselves. Among the choices are: the Methodist cross, the Christian Church cross, the Latin cross, Presbyterian (Celtic) cross, Presbyterian Church (USA) cross, the Greek cross, etc.
The link for images of the different faith emblems is below. I cannot say if this is a complete list, but it is what is on the Arlington website.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/funeral_information/authorized_emblems.html
greenberetTFS
07-21-2009, 01:14
Which is why my original post is just questioning the reported issues - I agree the artifacts part of the piece comes across as more of a whine than an issue and is really of no interest to me - but the misrecorded interments issue was apparently admitted by Arlington and they said they've been working on a program to automate it - doesn't sound too promising if it's been going on for as long as claimed - the one issue I have with that part of the report is the absence of numbers of misrecorded graves - although 1 is not an acceptable number for a family with a relative buried there - I'm waiting for the rest of this story, too - and I bet Arlington will place a higher FAD on getting their system updated after this report.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I've been waiting for the rest of the story.......:confused: Has anyone seen it? :(
Big Teddy :munchin