View Full Version : VFW and/or American Legion?
A recently returning Iraqi vet recently spoke at my local American Legion meeting and talked about some of his experiences. The fellow was very well received by everyone.
Question: For current and former vets…What could/should your local VFW, American Legion, or other veterans group do to engage your participation?
I'm not soliciting for anybody. Just wondering. Thanks.
mojaveman
07-09-2009, 15:38
A recently returning Iraqi vet recently spoke at my local American Legion meeting and talked about some of his experiences. The fellow was very well received by everyone.
Question: For current and former vets…What could/should your local VFW, American Legion, or other veterans group do to engage your participation?
I'm not soliciting for anybody. Just wondering. Thanks.
The American Legion that I was a member of engaged my participation by having a "Happy Hour" every Friday night that was followed by an inexpensive steak dinner.
Just a thought...
"Question: For current and former vets…What could/should your local VFW, American Legion, or other veterans group do to engage your participation?"
It's a good question but my answer is a little off track.
The local VFW/American Legion Post has more to offer a vet than the vet knows.
My answer is more for the Reserves/NGs/short term folks who get out - not those that stay on active duty.
People on active duty have a built in "support system" - their friends on active duty, the units and other folks in that area.
Reserves/NGs and one termers who get out can end up back on the street surrounded by sheepeople without a clue about what the troop went through. The troop can feel alone and isolated.
By linking up with a VFW or Legion Post the troop can find others who understand him and his situation. By getting involved with the post's activeties the troop can keep his spare time occupied and see that he is needed and wanted.
Not a shrink here, but I think it helps the return to "normal".
Pete
I think the specific chapter would say more. I was a member of the Legion in a small town in AZ. It was a fantastic post, Great people, great place to take people, lots of fun. The one near me now, ... I am not interested. I think the people of the chapter is more important than what service organization it is.
greenberetTFS
07-09-2009, 16:45
Well,There are 2 types of veterans according to the two groups....:) All veterans are acceptable to join the Ameican Legion...... :cool: However,only some veterans are qualified to join the VFW..... ;) Both are open to visitors,but membership is restricted in the VFW.
Big Teddy :munchin
I'm a VFW guy through and through. When I got back from RVN in 1965, my Dad took me out for a drink at the American Legion in Merced, California. He was then an active duty Colonel and I was a brand new sergeant. We were both in uniform and we weren't treated very well at all.
There were three guys (WWII vets) that kept kibitzing about "Green Beenies" and how Vietnam wasn't a "real war". They said that Kenedy didn't do the U.S. any favors by authorizing the green beret.
My dad got pissed and I did too. We complained to the manager who sided with the kibitzers.
To this day I will drink at my local VFW, but not at the American Legion
There were three guys (WWII vets) that kept kibitzing about "Green Beenies" and how Vietnam wasn't a "real war". They said that Kenedy didn't do the U.S. any favors by authorizing the green beret.
Those clowns needed therapy, not a veterans club. You and your dad were the heroes in the joint. It's good that you left. Shake the dust from your feet.
I think the people of the chapter is more important than what service organization it is.
Completely agree. This applies to churches as well as service clubs.
Reserves/NGs and one termers who get out can end up back on the street surrounded by sheepeople without a clue about what the troop went through. The troop can feel alone and isolated.
Can only speak for myself; There were stages I went thru when I was retired on disability. Almost like the grieving process. Denial and disbelief came first, then the feeling of alone and isolated. The Legion and VFW clubs (if they're sustained by people that are deeper than they are wide) help by providing a kind of rest area. Hard to explain.
The American Legion that I was a member of engaged my participation by having a Happy Hour every Friday night that was followed by an inexpensive steak dinner.
If only all the clubs had the resources to win the hearts and minds like that! I'd join that club in a nanosecond.
P-FOR: Sooner or later, if we're lucky, we all end up civilians again. Sometimes adapting and dealing with that is the hardest part of serving. Sometimes a veterans club can help. Note this...once you have served your country and you retire or get out, your love for it deepens all the more. Least I think so.
Utah Bob
07-09-2009, 22:16
I had a similar experience as f50lrrp except it was with the VFW. The post was not interested in having Nam vets as members.
I never explored membership after that.
FWIW - I'm not a big joiner of organizations - never was - neither was my Dad, Uncle or Father-In-Law (all WW2 vets).
I belong to the SFA to keep up with some friends with whom I have the greatest sense of affinity - and our local chapter has a couple of friends with whom I served previously.
Question: For current and former vets…What could/should your local VFW, American Legion, or other veterans group do to engage your participation?
I think a large part of the answer to the question has to do with whether or not a person feels welcome/comfortable with the people and the charter of the organization, and whether or not they can participate at whichever level is comfortable for them without feeling coerced.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
AngelsSix
07-10-2009, 06:21
As a much younger troop :p than some of the other members of the "V", I enjoy hearing some of the exploits of those that went before me. Problem with the VFW and the Legion is that the newer generation has less interest in joining. Our membership at the "V" is comprised mostly of older folks that served in Vietnam and Korea, there are not many folks my age at the local "V". As it is, I can barely stand the smokescreen for the couple of adult beverages I may consume. But the "old timers" are a fun bunch.:cool:
I think a large part of the answer to the question has to do with whether or not a person feels welcome/comfortable with the people and the charter of the organization, and whether or not they can participate at whichever level is comfortable for them without feeling coerced.
The "coerced" element is on target. No one wants to associate with any group if they are left feeling like they've being driven into a corner.
greenberetTFS
07-10-2009, 10:20
The VFW post here in Picayune have a great bunch of guys......:cool: It's true we drink a bit,but every vet is treated decently and even a northerner like me is welcome as a brother..........;) I've never been to the American legion post here so I really can't comment on it...........:)
Big Teddy :munchin
Something the local VFW & American Legion were doing in my tiny town was offering NEW returning Vets or recently discharged Veterans one year free membership. You can't beat the prices and the company your in.
Something the local VFW & American Legion were doing in my tiny town was offering NEW returning Vets or recently discharged Veterans one year free membership. You can't beat the prices and the company your in.
It's true we drink a bit,but every vet is treated decently and even a northerner like me is welcome as a brother..........
Great incentive to join and the best incentive to remain.
Thanks everyone. I'm going to pass some of these ideas on to my Post. SF will get all the credit, too.
VFW, American Legion, Elks, Eagles, etc all have one thing in common. They are social networking groups. I'm not saying that's all they are, but they at least have that in common.
OPSEC for SOF aside, how do today's soldiers interact? Social networking WEBSITES. If VFW and American Legion want to stay relevant with the bulk of todays veterans, they need to communicate on their level. VFW needs go Facebook. In addition, if you want to recruit a twenty-something, you send a twenty-something to recruit him. Guys in their 30's or closer to retirement will join for traditional reasons. Younger veterans need a motivator.
my .02
VFW, American Legion, Elks, Eagles, etc all have one thing in common. They are social networking groups. I'm not saying that's all they are, but they at least have that in common.
OPSEC for SOF aside, how do today's soldiers interact? Social networking WEBSITES. If VFW and American Legion want to stay relevant with the bulk of todays veterans, they need to communicate on their level. VFW needs go Facebook. In addition, if you want to recruit a twenty-something, you send a twenty-something to recruit him. Guys in their 30's or closer to retirement will join for traditional reasons. Younger veterans need a motivator.
my .02
Swank, you need to raise your price...your advice is worth more than that. Thanks very much.
Animal8526
07-12-2009, 03:52
VFW, American Legion, Elks, Eagles, etc all have one thing in common. They are social networking groups. I'm not saying that's all they are, but they at least have that in common.
OPSEC for SOF aside, how do today's soldiers interact? Social networking WEBSITES. If VFW and American Legion want to stay relevant with the bulk of todays veterans, they need to communicate on their level. VFW needs go Facebook. In addition, if you want to recruit a twenty-something, you send a twenty-something to recruit him. Guys in their 30's or closer to retirement will join for traditional reasons. Younger veterans need a motivator.
my .02
As one of those twenty-something vets, I tend to agree. It's not just the age disparity though... but I'm going to have to think some more about this and try to put into words why I've not joined my local VFW chapter.
I apologize for this garrulous tome. When it’s done I’ll shut the hell up.
I waited a while before posing this thread because I didn’t want to come off like just another old fart in the wings. I didn't want to start a discussion that really didn't matter. I think it does.
The replies submitted have been picking around something that’s at the core of why (IMHO) veterans groups don’t have the support from the younger service personnel as they could or maybe should. Of course, iIt's a bunch of reasons. Age/generational difference are certainly on the list. As a culture we tend to congregate by age groups, and we have ever since the disappearance of the one room school (think about that one). In our local Am Legion post we have a pot-luck dinner once a month because it gives a chance for the grandpas and grandmas of the community to socialize in a setting other than church so we can share a beer and a dirty joke or two. Another deal is the fact that Americans don’t “join” as much now (any group, any thing) as they did in the 20’s and 50’s when a lot of the Posts were being founded. WW1, WW2, and in some ways Korea and Vietnam were wars of a particular generation, certainly wars with vastly different technologies and political objectives. If you look at a typical (not all but typical) meeting now you’ll see WW2 vets and a few VN vets, and once in a while a vet from Desert Storm turns up, but his/her participation/attendance is usually inconsistent. Most of the time you get the impression that the younger vet doesn’t want to offend the old timers, and so they stay away. Or, they may be concerned that the old timer is going to offend them and they’ll go off. I wonder about that. How would a young vet offend an old vet? How could a person who is today putting his/her lives and the happiness of their families at risk in order to serve our country offend a man who did exactly the same thing 20, 30, 60 years ago (whether they were drafted or not…whether they held an M4 or a .38 Special)? Maybe, when we are long of tooth, we tend to give our advice with too much abandon. Maybe we don’t listen enough. Maybe the brotherhood is evolving more toward the digital society, and away from buildings with static displays of tanks and airplanes and giant bronze men in helmets waving Springfield’s in an over-the-top charge. The internet offers speed and anonymity but there’s something lost in the internet in that you can’t really shake a guys hand and look him in the eye to see what’s left in there and say, “Hey, brother”. Maybe it’s all these things and maybe more.
Final story (sorry, this is a Navy story): A few years ago a new frigate was commissioned bearing the name of a predecessor that went down with guns blazing after being hit by four Kamikazes in the Battle of Leyte Gulf. Out of a crew of over 350 only 50 survived. Most had passed by the time the new ship was commissioned. Those few old surviving vets adopted the new ship and the crew, and from time to time some of them would show up at the pier…at noon in the middle of the week. They’d bring aboard fresh fruit from their backyard trees, or vegetables, or maybe a pie one of the wives had made. They’d visit with the skipper and they’d loiter around topside a while and shoot the breeze with the younger guys (who could have been their great-grand children). Sometimes they’d put their arms around a kid or two and say, “Come on…let’s go over and grab a bite to eat,” and then they’d slip down the brow with kid(s) in tow and head over to the club. In an hour or three they’d come back and likely as not the poor sailor would be on his lips from the beers those old vets swished down him at the club. One time they told this kid, in all seriousness; “Listen, bub. When this ship goes down, and it will go down, remember that you can move up to the top of a compartment as the ship rolls over and it’s flooding, and you can find air. There’re pockets of air that collect up in the crevices that you can breathe on your way out. When you get out, stay together. Remember that. Stay together.” Those kids never forgot those lessons, or those vets.
I’ve babbled enough. I sure don't have the answers as to why VFW and Am Legion participation has fallen. I feel it's a sadness, however. I have the greatest respect and admiration for this site and for the community of SF. Hope I didn’t piss anybody off. God bless you all, each and every one.
Animal8526
07-13-2009, 05:32
Larry, I can't speak for anyone else around here, and I'm little less than a nobody here, but you didn't piss me off at all.
I think you put into words why I haven't joined more succinctly than I could have.
I don't know why, but you're right... I feel like I'd be offending the older vets with my presence. I sorta feel like my contributions don't live up to theirs, and by joining the same "club" I'm proclaiming that I belong as much as they do... And I don't feel like that's the case. I feel like I'd be sitting as a guest in a house of giants.
Just the way I feel. not that it makes sense, but that's the shake.
ZonieDiver
07-13-2009, 09:20
I had a similar experience as f50lrrp except it was with the VFW. The post was not interested in having Nam vets as members.
I never explored membership after that.
My experience with both of these groups' chapters in my area was the same as Utah Bob and f50lrrp. Several of us in my USAR unit actually got in a "tussle" at the Scottsdale VFW in '74. (I thought they were "ancient" WWII types - but most were younger then than I am now, and I ain't old!)
My experience with both of these group's chapters in my area was the same as Utah Bob and f50lrrp.
Yep - the beer glasses empty, the courage and conversational volume increases - and the Johnson-measuring begins in earnest - who needs it - there's enough within the SFA/SOA crowd for me - don't need to add to it all with another alphabetic fraternal order of the "There I was..." ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
[I feel like I'd be offending the older vets with my presence. I sorta feel like my contributions don't live up to theirs, and by joining the same "club" I'm proclaiming that I belong as much as they do... And I don't feel like that's the case. I feel like I'd be sitting as a guest in a house of giants.
Your point is understandable, but I v/r suggest you are wrong...you deserve to be there just the same as any of the WW2 Audi Murphy's.
My experience with both of these groups' chapters in my area was the same as Utah Bob and f50lrrp.
This is the real sadness. To heck if any of these organizations succeed or fold. It's more important that EVERY vet, regardless of branch or age or anything save character of service, should be welcomed warmly. If a vet wanders into a closed group then it should be the character of that group to shake their hand, thank them for their service, and help them find the right direction. If they slam the door and stick their noses in the air then let 'em pack sand.
Yep - the beer glasses empty, the courage and conversational volume increases - and the Johnson-measuring begins in earnest - who needs it - there's enough within the SFA/SOA crowd for me - don't need to add to it all with another alphabetic fraternal order of the "There I was..."
Sir, Your sentiments speak for a lot of post-WW2 vets. I'm really glad there is an SFA/SOA. It's regrettable that the other vet groups couldn't make you feel welcome. The burden is purely on them. Thank you.
When I was disabled and had to leave service the hardest part was dealing with the worry of how to support my family. From the time I was hurt until I was home was less than 4 months. I know that's probably a lot longer than some of the soldiers/sailors coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan have. The USN "Transition and Assistance Program" (TAPS) helped me some, and the DAV rep at NAVSTA Norfolk did an outstanding job getting my dumb-ass thru the VA process. But, nothing prepared me for finding a way to support my wife and kids. I was 51 years old.
Sorry if I'm plowing old ground, but this article appeared in the latest VFW magazine and I wanted to share it. The TVLP is in Texas, but I'd bet there are other similar organizations in other areas that provide the same help. Hope so anyways. Also hope if there's anyone out there that needs help will ask a vet for help. Every mother-son of us (regardless of age or branch of service or designator) should be willing to do whatever it takes to lend a hand to any other vet trying to find a way to re-start their lives.
Texas Program Aids Returning Vets
Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at 6:24am
Modeled after the Vietnam Veterans Leadership Program of the 1980’s, the Texas Veterans Leadership Program seeks to assist returning Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans. Program leaders hope to provide assistance right away, in hopes of assuring the best possible future.
By Kelly Von Lunen
Army Master Sgt. Randall Thompson of Lubbock, Texas, says he applied for some 60 jobs before getting his first offer. “I started looking for a job a year before I retired from the Army,” Thompson said, “but no one wanted to talk to me until I was out.”
With assistance from a veterans research and referral specialist (VRRS) through the Texas Veterans Leadership Program (TVLP), Thompson was placed in a job with Federated Insurance Co. in Lubbock.
Another Army vet, Troy Hererra, enrolled in the Navarro Police Academy in Waxahachie, Texas, after 3 1/2 years of active duty. After starting his academy training, Herrera learned that VA denied his education benefits claim, stating he “was never enrolled in the GI Bill program at the time of enlistment.”
A VRRS obtained Hererra’s original enlistment contract, and he was then able to use the GI Bill benefits he earned.
From September 2008 (when the program was launched) through June 2009, 2,130 veterans like Thompson and Herrera benefited from TVLP—an average of more than 200 per month.
Created by Tom Pauken, Vietnam veteran and Texas Workforce Commission chairman, TVLP is a resource and referral network geared for returning Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans. Some 28 VRRSs work to find employment, training, medical, education and other services through community service organizations, veterans service organizations and faith-based programs.
“So far we’ve been able to help thousands of veterans here in Texas,” said Pauken, a member of VFW Post 6796 in Dallas. “Everything from getting a job, to civilian life, to getting them into training programs to get them necessary skills, or getting their benefits.”
‘Welcoming Vets Back the Right Way’
Established in April 2008, TVLP was modeled after the Vietnam Veterans Leadership Program, approved by President Reagan in 1981—eight years after the end of the U.S. war in Vietnam in March 1973.
“VVLP was run entirely by Vietnam vets to help our fellow vets who were unemployed or underemployed,” Pauken said. “We don’t have the societal divisions now that we had back then; we are now separating the warrior from the war.”
TVLP is designed to help vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan to make a successful transition back to civilian life. The program is not intended to be permanent, but rather to assist their transition during the next few years.
“It’s quite a change for a veteran going from an intense battle situation in another part of the world under difficult circumstances,” Pauken said, “to coming home as a civilian in a society that only knows what it occasionally reads about what these young men and women have gone through.”
Pauken says that a “common bond” between TVLP specialists and job-seeking vets creates a sense of “veterans helping veterans,” as returning vets open up to and connect with fellow veterans. Public service announcements and TVLP’s Web site are getting the word out about the program.
“We’re welcoming veterans back to Texas the right way, not just thanking them with a single event,” Pauken said.
‘VFW is There for These Vets’
TVLP’s program director, Jason Doran, is a retired Marine gunnery sergeant, Iraq vet and Silver Star recipient. A VFW member since 1991 and former commander of Post 3359 in Garland, Doran encourages his co-workers to work closely with VFW.
“VFW is the No. 1 resource we send vets to for help,” Doran said. “VFW Posts down here in Texas are really picking up the gauntlet. If we want to do something—a job fair, transportation to VA for an appointment—usually we can get somebody, and usually it’s a VFW member. I’m thankful that VFW is there for these veterans.”
Doran said that employment in Dallas is currently difficult to come by. Also, many vets TVLP works with have been unexpectedly medically discharged. The program works to get these vets the assistance they need while they wait for a job to start. This includes financial support, such as that provided by VFW’s Unmet Needs program.
“VFW gives us anything that we need,” Doran said.
Doran says one of TVLP’s primary goals is to physically locate veterans, particularly those who do not seem to be “connecting back.”
“The greatest thing they need is direction,” he said. “They know they want to go to college, they want to get a job. But they don’t know how they want to utilize the benefits that are there.”
At first, TVLP staff found that employment was a key concern. With the new GI Bill, now they are finding that a lot of veterans just want temporary employment while they go to school. Fortunately, Doran says, most colleges have been more than willing to help.
“They even fund it into their budgets,” he said. “People will help veterans if you just give them a chance. We don’t want veterans to feel excluded, like they’re outside.”
Doran also notes the temporary nature of the program. He says that when the current wars end, veterans will have certain needs. If those needs are not met, these vets may require more assistance in the future.
“We’re trying to get them the help they need so those problems won’t be there,” he said. “We’re hoping to quickly catch problems out the door now rather than later.”
© September 2009 VFW Magazine
www.vfw.org
For More Information
Texas Veterans Leadership Program
Jason Doran, Program Director
101 E. 15th St.
Austin, TX 78778
www.twc.state.tx.us/tvlp/tvlp.html
1-888-838-8391
tvlp@twc.state.tx.us
Thanks and God bless you all.
Scimitar
08-29-2009, 15:45
A recently returning Iraqi vet recently spoke at my local American Legion meeting and talked about some of his experiences. The fellow was very well received by everyone.
Question: For current and former vets…What could/should your local VFW, American Legion, or other veterans group do to engage your participation?
I'm not soliciting for anybody. Just wondering. Thanks.
Don't know if this helps, but this how we've combated the same problem...
We have a similar institution called the Returned Services Association (RSA). Over the past decade our forces have had a very high OpTempo with quite a bit going on in the Pacific as well as our commitments to the box.
Similar to its American counterparts the RSA is also struggling with enfranchising the next generation of veterans.
The biggest single change that had to happen first to engage partisipation of the younger generation, as is so common with any organization, was not just a change in leadership mindset; because often that leadership is hovering just under the surface, but what was needed was an over haul of governance and constitution to release that leadership to begin offering services that meets this next generation of returning Vet where their at.
Don't want to get all consult-ish here, but an organisation will follow its constitution.
Not sure of the Legion or VFW governance set-up but…
- Is there a mandatory seat on the board for a Gulf War / GWOT Veteran? - I know for the RSA this was a big thing, Younger Vets wanted to see representation.
- Is there a mandatory allotment of resources for this individual - money, man power etc. Does the organization put its money where its mouth is?
Next that constitution needed to become operational.
We manager to get the government to actually alot funds to specifically target the needs of "modern" veterans, undertake a national study, and strategically filled holes that government agencies have left open.
I say this because surely you could somehow contact all vets in your area via mail and actually ask them that same question? You might be suprised by the answers and the difference in answers in different regions.
It might sound businessy but there's nothing like good old market research (done well) to better understand the needs of the customer. That combined with a better understanding of the total needs of the returning vet and which segment of those needs aren’t being meet, goes a big way towards positive change and negates what we were experiancing which was a doubling up of services. It also cuased like minded organization to start talking with eaach other more.
Lastly an overhaul of constitution and operational practice that moves the organisation away from corporate syndrome (read, self perpetuation) to a well centred service model…
Don’t know if that helps…from my experience all change must start at the governance level, down thru operations, and more often then not you'll find the coal face leadership and customer are actually already to go, but have just been waiting for the change up top...and yes it is often a painful process, definately is with the RSA.
Scimitar
Scimitar,
I have heard of the British Soldiers and Sailors Aid that performs a vital service to returning vets much in the same manner as our Vet Admin (if you read the charter anyway).
I am going to pass your info to some of the POCs at VFW for their information. All of our veternan service organizations need to make sure they're doing all they can to help our veterans. Thanks very much.
When I returned from overseas the first thing i did was join the VFW. I was proud to do it as my WWII grandfather was a major influence on me going that route and they always had activities for families and sponsored little league baseball teams, Christmas parties with Santa and toys, and so forth, so i was onboard to join. I joined 4 years ago and have yet to step foot in a VFW building and continue to renew membership.
Why? I never really thought about the "why" until i read this thread. I got my card in the mail with a little welcome letter from the headquarters area. I assume i could have just walked into any VFW and say, here i am and I want to participate, but I don't recall being assigned to one specific post or given a local POC.
Personally:
Another reason I suppose is the age disparity. My grandfather has long been dead and just walking into one...well, makes me....old i guess. I've never been one to enjoy being patted on the back either, and i might be way off by assuming that is the welcome i would receive, but would feel very uncomfortable walking into a place surrounded by people that have contributed much more and sacrificed much more than I. I'm just a Joe that did what was asked and what i thought was right, much like they did. However, at the same time, I want to get involved in order to assist my fellow comrades in anyway i can through social gatherings and, i guess just being a friend with a common past with an understanding ear to listen.
Society Aspect:
Another issue nowadays, is that people are much more transient. My grandparents lived in the same house for over 40 years. They were part of a well established (not financially necessarily, but settled) community. They had roots. Today, people (the younger generation particularly) move so much i think that their commitment to organizations and groups like VFW and the Legion are often seen as a nuisance or too time-consuming.... to get so involved and dedicate so much time, to just get and move to another area in 3-5 years.
As the previous poster mentioned, i think, if they want to get younger people involved, linking up with them on their medium might help (facebook, myspace, etc...). I think that this approach allows these younger folks to make contacts and snoop around and see whats going on without having to...well, commit a personal relationship right away. Once warmed up with the idea of the happenings and activities provided, then they may feel more inclined to get personal and show up in person and have a physical presence there.
my .02
-----------------------
Caveat: VFW does offer Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, MySpace, MyVetwork and the VFW Blog. The VFW also has links to local posts, if that local post has a website.
Stickey, I think the nail you hit was that these organizations (regardless of which one) need to become more personal with the vet if they hope to sustain a regenerative membership. If when you got home a member of a veterans group called on you at your home. Just came by and thanked you personally for your service, shook your hand, and said, "Welcome home!" that the experience would have been easier. A lot of things aren't personal anymore. As a society now days we seem to shun being personal with one another. It's too bad, IMHO. Maybe it's partly because of the mobility thing you mentioned. Maybe it's because when we get personal we become vulnerable. I don't know for sure. I just think the only way out of this hole America is sinking in to is to become more personally involved with eachother. Otherwise, we risk turning our back on our fellow human beings when they need help.
Thanks very much for your opinion, and BTW...regardless of your job in the service, you served, and for that you can be very proud. Well done!
I'm a VFW guy through and through. When I got back from RVN in 1965, my Dad took me out for a drink at the American Legion in Merced, California. He was then an active duty Colonel and I was a brand new sergeant. We were both in uniform and we weren't treated very well at all.
There were three guys (WWII vets) that kept kibitzing about "Green Beenies" and how Vietnam wasn't a "real war". They said that Kenedy didn't do the U.S. any favors by authorizing the green beret.
My dad got pissed and I did too. We complained to the manager who sided with the kibitzers.
To this day I will drink at my local VFW, but not at the American Legion
In 1982, I got a bogus traffic ticket in Iowa - I have never been back there - struck that state off the map for me - F**k those damn people and their damn f**kin corn.
I now get most of my traffic tickets in Texas.
I now get most of my traffic tickets in Texas.
Gee, MItch...I have to ask, "Where do you get the rest of your tickets?":D
Gee, MItch...I have to ask, "Where do you get the rest of your tickets?":D
Just Texas - but I can't leave here - no wheels on my house. :p
Just one more question - saw you served on some Frigates. Did you ever hear of one called the USS PAUL - only been on one in my life and it was that one.
Mitch,
PAUL was a Mayport boat. Never spent any time at sea off east coast. I served in DOWNES (FF 1070) out of San Diego for 2+ years. A good but tough cruise. KNOX-Class frigates did their part, but they weren't the easiest ships to serve in. Good memories, though.