View Full Version : Bill Allowing Guns in Bars Approved
Team Sergeant
07-01-2009, 08:28
And now for some good news..... Now I can eat lunch (and dinner) in a lot more places.... TS
Bill Allowing Guns in Bars Approved
Updated: Wednesday, 01 Jul 2009, 7:11 AM MDT
Published : Wednesday, 01 Jul 2009, 7:11 AM MDT
PHOENIX - The Arizona House has approved a bill to allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry a gun into a business that serves alcohol.
The measure has pitted powerful groups representing gun and bar owners against each other.
It would require bar and restaurant owners who want to ban weapons to post a sign next to their liquor license. Drinking while carrying a weapon would be illegal.
Opponents have said that mixing guns and alcohol could cause violence, but supporters argue that people should be able to protect themselves at businesses that serve alcohol.
The House approved the measure 40-19. It now goes back to the Senate, which has already approved a more-restrictive version that would have required a bar to serve food in order to allow guns.
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/politics/state_politics/guns_bars_bill_070109
Good deal,
Now I can legally do what I've been doing for years. Ain't leaving that rascal in my car and you never know when you might need to reprimand a surley waiter.
Anyone hear anything about other states adopting this?
Red Flag 1
07-01-2009, 13:18
In the words of Lee Marvin in the film Cat Balou, "I'll drink to that".!!!
I pray that our second amendment will remain strong through the rough waters ahead!
My $.02.
RF 1
Dozer523
07-01-2009, 13:39
I pray that our second amendment will remain strong through the rough waters ahead!RF 1
Now if we can just start bring them into SCHOOLS!
I'm kidding, I'M KIDDING :p (Let's not start that again!:eek:)
This bill passing is of great interest to myself and a few gals I know. Honestly, having armed "good guys" in the establishments that are frequented, is a GOOD thing, IMVHO!:)
Am curious....(And hope am not flamed for asking,) but, IF a QP now is legally carrying and violence breaks out, what would be the objective if put in that position?
Thank you TS, for the update!
Holly
Dozer523
07-01-2009, 14:14
This bill passing is of great interest to myself and a few gals I know. Honestly, having armed "good guys" in the establishments that are frequented, is a GOOD thing, IMVHO!:)Am curious....(And hope am not flamed for asking,) but, IF a QP now is legally carrying and violence breaks out, what would be the objective if put in that position? Thank you TS, for the update!
Holly
What kind of places do you hang out at?!!!?!:p
Two in the chest one in the head?:D
This bill passing is of great interest to myself and a few gals I know. Honestly, having armed "good guys" in the establishments that are frequented, is a GOOD thing, IMVHO.....
There is nothing stopping you or the gals you know from getting your own CC License.
Nothing stopping a trained female from pulling a handgun in the right situation and putting 2 well aimed shots in some dirt bag's chest.
Red Flag 1
07-01-2009, 14:57
Now if we can just start bring them into SCHOOLS!
I'm kidding, I'M KIDDING :p (Let's not start that again!:eek:)
Richards turf!!
RF 1
Tennessee has also passed similar legislation. Gov Bredesen (D) vetoed the bill and the Senate overrode his veto. It will go into effect July 14. :lifter
There is nothing stopping you or the gals you know from getting your own CC License.
Nothing stopping a trained female from pulling a handgun in the right situation and putting 2 well aimed shots in some dirt bag's chest.
Pete,
I debated weather or not to post this, but seeing as I cannot remember it ever being posted as a question before, I will ask...
My reasoning for not obtaining a permit and carrying was the fact that those I would be protecting could not, in any sense "move" from harms way, should my weapon somehow be turned against me.
I know, it must sound silly to trained operatoors...but for average folks, am sure it does happen...and I guess it is plain old fashioned fear.:(
Holly
......My reasoning for not obtaining a permit and carrying was the fact that those I would be protecting could not, in any sense "move" from harms way, .......
Fight or flight
Of two options you have restricted yourself to none.
Fight or flight
Of two options you have restricted yourself to none.
Pete Sir,
Never thought of it that way.
Thank you, Sir.
Holly
Pete,
I debated weather or not to post this, but seeing as I cannot remember it ever being posted as a question before, I will ask...
My reasoning for not obtaining a permit and carrying was the fact that those I would be protecting could not, in any sense "move" from harms way, should my weapon somehow be turned against me.
I know, it must sound silly to trained operatoors...but for average folks, am sure it does happen...and I guess it is plain old fashioned fear.:(
Holly
Holly,
Also look at it this way.....If some dirt bag(s) do happen upon you and your sis in anyway, they're already thinking you're nothing but sheep, so you're an "easy" target.
But low and behold if (when) you pull your piece and happen to drop one of them, or even get off a snap shot, chances are, the others will be running for their lives as fast as they can screaming, "Holy Crap !!!!! That ain't no Sheep....that's a Sheepdog....and SHE'S GOT TEETH !!!!"
Don't be afraid to get your CC.
Personally - I have mixed feelings on the issue - we'll just have to see how it plays out on the stage of human farce.
Richard's $.02
Holly,
Also look at it this way.....If some dirt bag(s) do happen upon you and your sis in anyway, they're already thinking you're nothing but sheep, so you're an "easy" target.
But low and behold if (when) you pull your piece and happen to drop one of them, or even get off a snap shot, chances are, the others will be running for their lives as fast as they can screaming, "Holy Crap !!!!! That ain't no Sheep....that's a Sheepdog....and SHE'S GOT TEETH !!!!"
Don't be afraid to get your CC.
Sdiver,:)
I have been thinking a lot lately of familial security, and have been reading some good QP advice. It will definately effect my security plans for my family members in the future.
Oh and...No TEETH...just CLAWS;)
Holly
Utah Bob
07-01-2009, 17:59
Ditto. A staunch supporter of the 2A but I still have some misgivings. I wish legal owner of a firearm was responsible and mature. Alas, I know they're not.
When I lived in Florida and they passed the ccw law, the liberals predicted the streets would run with blood. It didn't happen then and I hope the new AZ law won't result in any tragedies. I hope no intoxicated bozo makes us all look like idiots. My fingers are crossed.
Many States already have this provision...no problems with legal carriers have arrisen.
Same argument initially made when States started alowing CC's....."it'll be a shooting gallery"...BS.
The States with the most restrictive laws have more violent crime, per capita, than those that allow.
I carry everywhere period except when flying and then it goes in my checked bags.
frostfire
07-02-2009, 00:22
Personally - I have mixed feelings on the issue - we'll just have to see how it plays out on the stage of human farce.
Richard's $.02
Concur.
For example, I am not sure about this guy.
I personally do not believe in "flashing"
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/gun_toting_in_georgia/Content?oid=528311
Gun-toting in Georgia
How I learned to stop worrying and love carrying my gun
Published 07.30.08
By Andisheh Nouraee
Andisheh Nouraee learned to stop worrying and love carrying his gun
If you intend to rob me, stab me or punch me in the neck because you think I looked at you funny, I recommend you glance at my waist before lifting the pull tab on that can of whoop-ass.
I may be carrying a handgun.
Nearly everyone in our state can legally keep guns in their home. I am one of the few, the proud, the Georgia Firearms Licensed – one of a reported 300,000 Georgians permitted to carry a gun in public.
Unlike the 9.2 million-or-so Peach Staters who do not possess firearms licenses, I'm legally permitted to carry a gun pretty much everywhere I go – walking my dogs, sipping a latte at my neighborhood coffee shop, buying deodorant at Target.
Firearms licenses are easy to get in Georgia. All you need is a clean criminal record, about $40 and a couple of hours to spend at your county's probate court.
If you're married, you may already be familiar with probate court. It's also the place that issues marriage licenses. In fact, when you call the Fulton County Probate Court the recorded message actually says "For information about marriage licenses, please press one. For information about firearms licenses, please press two." Romantic, eh?
I got my gun license a year and a half ago after I was relieved of my wallet at gunpoint at my front door by a man who threatened to come back for me if I cancelled my ATM and credit cards.
Since he was clearly comfortable dropping by the house unannounced, police told me to take the threat seriously by carrying a gun myself.
I've had handguns for target shooting since I was a kid, but never carried one for self-defense. After the robbery, I applied for a permit so I could carry a gun without breaking the law. And even before the license arrived, I started to carry my gun from my driveway to my front door, which is legal; I was scared the guy would keep his promise and come back for me.
As it turned out he was arrested a couple of weeks later, pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 10 years in prison.
When my permit arrived in the mail, I stuck it in my wallet and pretty much forgot about it. I didn't start carrying a weapon. He was in jail and I moved to a less transitional neighborhood. I felt safe again.
Nearly everyone I spend time with regularly has a visceral and fearful reaction to guns. Having so many gun-dreading friends and acquaintances has taught me to keep guns where no one will ever see them. Carrying a gun in public seemed like peeing in the sink of a public restroom. Not illegal, but definitely a first-degree jerk move.
I was also afraid of the reaction of strangers. I would hate to be the subject of this 911 call: "Hello, police, I'm at the Publix on North Decatur Road and there's a swarthy bald man here with a gun. He's headed for the Lean Cuisine."
So, although I had a permit, I was less than thrilled that the General Assembly passed H.B. 89 in April. The new law would give licensed firearms permit holders the right to legally carry guns into places that used to be off-limits: city and state parks, public transportation, and restaurants that serve alcohol.
It seemed to me that the law encouraged colossal dickheadedness by legalizing behavior – carrying guns openly in public – that makes people nervous.
Under the new law, I could now legally take my gun into a restaurant that served alcohol – which includes places many consider bars, such as the Earl or Manuel's Tavern. I could Rollerblade in Piedmont Park while packing heat. I could even take a gun on MARTA.
continued in link
......For example, I am not sure about this guy.
I personally do not believe in "flashing"......
Read the whole story again - slowly this time.
It is a humorous look at one mans journy from no carry, to concealed carry to open carry.
From the article - "So I just want to be clear," I asked MARTA police Chief Wanda Dunham. "If I had a turkey sandwich in one hand and a gun in the other hand, MARTA police would ticket me for the turkey sandwich?"
"If you're eating it," she replied. "Only if you're eating it."
"So I just want to be clear," I asked MARTA police Chief Wanda Dunham. "If I had a turkey sandwich in one hand and a gun in the other hand, MARTA police would ticket me for the turkey sandwich?"
"Yes - for cannibalism." :D
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
07-02-2009, 07:59
A permit to carry concealed does not equate to brandishing a firearm in hand without cause in a public place.
Sounds like Wanda might be an affirmative action political appointee.:rolleyes:
TR
Utah Bob
07-02-2009, 09:57
"Yes - for cannibalism." :D
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Dammit! Coffee on the keyboard again!:D:D
dr. mabuse
07-02-2009, 13:46
PRB said, "Many States already have this provision...no problems with legal carriers have arrisen. "
Not true. At least in Texas, over half of all CHL revocations involved booze.
In Texas, you can wear your weapon and drink your beer with your meal, but anyone that is "off kilter" and wearing their gun is a no-no.
The few misbehave and make trouble for the rest of us. Old story. :rolleyes:
PRB said, "Many States already have this provision...no problems with legal carriers have arrisen. "
Not true. At least in Texas, over half of all CHL revocations involved booze.
In Texas, you can wear your weapon and drink your beer with your meal, but anyone that is "off kilter" and wearing their gun is a no-no.
The few misbehave and make trouble for the rest of us. Old story. :rolleyes:
I'd be interested in the stats...over 1/2 of what number and what were the circumstance etc...any reference would be appreciated
The Reaper
07-02-2009, 14:42
PRB said, "Many States already have this provision...no problems with legal carriers have arrisen. "
Not true. At least in Texas, over half of all CHL revocations involved booze.
In Texas, you can wear your weapon and drink your beer with your meal, but anyone that is "off kilter" and wearing their gun is a no-no.
The few misbehave and make trouble for the rest of us. Old story. :rolleyes:
I do not believe that you should be consuming alcohol if you are packing.
Any alcohol makes you suspect while driving, and impairment occurs at a fairly low level.
Why not just make yourself the Designated Driver and Designated Packer at the same time?
It only takes one jackass to ruin the program for everyone.
I doubt that very many of the revocations were for people in establishments serving alcohol as well as food and who were not drinking.
TR
Two other bills as well...
The legislature passed two additional important pro-gun bills expanding law-abiding citizens’ self defense rights. Senator Russell Pearce (R-18) was the lead sponsor of these two measures:
SB 1168, which permits law-abiding individuals to store firearms in locked vehicles while parked on publicly accessible parking lots; and SB 1243, which clarifies the statutory definition of defensive display of a firearm.
kachingchingpow
07-02-2009, 15:53
Yep, definately legal here in GA since about a year ago. I believe I heard of a bill that contains some legislation allowing carry in national parks too, which pretty much takes care of 2/3 of the lakes and streams in the state (formerly illegal to carry on your boat if you're in designated national park property). There *is* some worrisome language on the back of the packing permit here in GA, that restricts carry in public places. Public places are defined as "the following, *but not limited to* government buildings, polling places, sporting events, etc. etc." The "but not limited to" is the catch all that can get you in trouble.
dr. mabuse
07-02-2009, 18:14
PRB, the stats are at the Texas Dept. of Public Safety webpage(I think).
I usually get my stats for teaching class directly from David Wise, legal counsel of DPS and one of the two attorneys that takes away someone's license if they misbehave. He says booze is a real problem overall. We are taught this at the DPS Academy. I am not aware of publically published suspension or revocation figures.
So, the 2 biggest problems are booze, accounting for a little over half, and almost the remaining half is not paying attention to signs forbidding entering with a CHL.
We're pretty well behaved here overall. TR said it best though. I should get his permission and read verbatim what he said to my classes.
One of the most recent CHL shootings in Texas involved one of our former students. He had been drinking (lightly) but critical judgement was impaired and he popped an unarmed man he got in an argument with. It doesn't happen often, yet it happens too much.
I've also learned that folks out there (comment not aimed at this forum)that tend to blow-off suggestions regarding discretion when drinking (and other things) end-up in troublel sooner or later anyway.
Here's one site http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm
Tricky part is, some of these crimes have alcohol "embedded" as a contributing factor.
Anyone hear anything about other states adopting this?
Michigan has a somewhat similar law. Here, the CPL holder can carry in any place that serves alcohol, as long as its income from alcohol is less than half its total income.
However, our local residents, (and also residents of other states, I suspect), had better not read that as a "stand alone" law.
It is illegal in MI to have *any* alcohol content while carrying a weapon. Penalties for such as a DUI are worse, but your license is gone for a period of 6 months to forever, for having alcohol in your system while carrying.
Holly,
Don't be afraid to get your CC.
Amen. A CC Permit is just that, a permit. It doesn't mean you *must* carry.
Kid sis has the same qualms about carrying a weapon. I've convinced her to get her permit to carry anyway. That way, she can acquire a handgun in minutes, either by buying one or borrowing one, rather than waiting three months after the need for a permit.
Michigan requires certified range time as part of the application. Of course, knowing her as I do, I am *certain* that, once she puts 100 rounds thru one of mine she would never want to be without one.
Note to self...........go ahead and buy a "spare" :)
Team Sergeant
07-14-2009, 17:40
Gov. Jan Brewer signed the bill, it's a done deal. :D
Brewer OKs Concealed
Guns in Restaurants
Updated: Tuesday, 14 Jul 2009, 6:15 AM MDT
Published : Monday, 13 Jul 2009, 10:32 PM MDT
PHOENIX - Arizonans with concealed weapons permits will be allowed to take a handgun into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol under a bill signed Monday by Gov. Jan Brewer.
The measure, backed by the National Rifle Association, will require bar and restaurant owners who want to ban weapons on the premises to post a no-guns sign next to their liquor license. It becomes effective Sept. 30.
Drinking while carrying a weapon would be illegal.
Before a compromise was reached late in the Legislature's regular session, the measure pitted powerful groups representing gun and bar owners against each other.
Supporters said people should be able to protect themselves at businesses that serve alcohol and shouldn't have to endure the risk of leaving their gun in a parked vehicle.
Todd Rathner, an NRA lobbyist, said he was pleased Brewer signed it after former Gov. Janet Napolitano vetoed a similar bill in 2005. Brewer, a Republican, became governor when Napolitano, a Democrat, resigned in January to become U.S. Homeland Security secretary.
More News »
"Any law that allows law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm in more places makes the community safer," Rathner said.
Opponents have said mixing guns and alcohol produces a dangerous combination that could cause violence.
"Now there's going to be a fear that you don't know if the person next to you is carrying a concealed weapon or not," said Sen. Ken Cheuvront, a Phoenix Democrat who owns a wine bar and restaurant downtown.
More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed weapons permits and would be allowed to carry a gun into consenting bars and restaurants. Brewer's signature makes Arizona the 41st state to allow guns in businesses that serve alcohol, according to the NRA.
The bill originally applied only to establishments with kitchens, but it was expanded to include bars. Another change was to move the location for posting a no-guns notice, which originally was to have been next to the main entrance. Some bar owners had worried about uncertainty over which entrance would be considered the main entrance.
A lobbyist for the Arizona Licensed Beverage Association, which opposed the original bill, said the amended version created clear, uniform and enforceable rules.
"It's going to happen one way or another, and this was the best version we've seen," ALBA lobbyist Don Isaacson said after the bill was revised last month.
It's already legal to carry a gun into a store that sells alcohol for consumption elsewhere.
It would be a misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail and a fine of up to $500 to carry a gun into an establishment with a no-guns notice posted.
The law, however, includes a partial legal defense for a person carrying a concealed weapon within an establishment banning guns. It would apply if the sign had fallen down, the person wasn't an
Arizona resident or the notice was first posted less than a month earlier.
Brewer also signed a bill allowing gun-owners to display a firearm if they feel threatened and another allowing them to keep firearms in their locked vehicles while parked at businesses that ban weapons.
The measure allows businesses to ban guns if they provide a secured parking lot or if they provide a nearby secondary lot that allows them.
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/politics/state_politics/guns_in_bars_passed_07_13_2009
Praetorian
07-14-2009, 18:06
Im one of the very rare CCW holders from California (and Ive been fighting for more LIBERAL CCW issuance in the state for well over a decade now... ).
This is from my permit:
While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee
shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon:
• Consume any alcoholic beverage.
• Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site
consumption.
• Be under the influence of any medication or drug, whether prescribed or not.
So we are allowed to carry in places like a "TGI Fridays" that have a bar, but is predominately a restaurant. Getting caught carrying with ANY alcohol on board is grounds for instant revocation.
Smokin Joe
07-14-2009, 18:36
Im one of the very rare CCW holders from California
Holy shit they really do exist..... Up until this point I treated Cali CCW holders lik the lost City of Atlantis. Every has heard of it but no I know has ever 'seen' it (or one).
Praetorian
07-14-2009, 19:05
Holy shit they really do exist..... Up until this point I treated Cali CCW holders lik the lost City of Atlantis. Every has heard of it but no I know has ever 'seen' it (or one).
I know.... Im rarer than Sasquatch and twice as mythical.
I went on a ride-along last year and when the issue of guns came up I told the officer I had a CCW. He actually said "there is no such thing in California."
"No...really!!! There is!!! Here is mine!!!!" :D
Here is the new "Credit Card" type permit. We just got issued these about three months ago or so.... Before that we had the famous "rice paper permit" (literally just a super thin piece of paper that had the info typed on it.... Anybody with a roll of toilet paper and a vintage typewriter could have forged one).
This bill passing is of great interest to myself and a few gals I know. Honestly, having armed "good guys" in the establishments that are frequented, is a GOOD thing, IMVHO!:)
Am curious....(And hope am not flamed for asking,) but, IF a QP now is legally carrying and violence breaks out, what would be the objective if put in that position?
Thank you TS, for the update!
Holly
Prior to becoming an Army JAG I served as a an Army CID agent (Seq # 1586) and they sent me to DEA school. During our undercover techniques this issue was extensively covered. In the situation where you are armed and unrelated to your presence violence errupts (Particularly when you are in "relaxed grooming" standards) the Boys in Blue that respond are pretty well full of adrenaline and expecting violence. The odds are you will become a casualty of Blue on Blue fire if you got a gun in your hand. This caution was expanded upon if you were wearing anything resembling biker gear and special empansis was placed upon agents that were members of minority groups. We were taught that it is a fact of life if you are a black male in street gear when the alarm goes off don't be waiving no gun in the 7-11 whether you are a federal agent or not - odds are you will be perceived as hostile by the responding officers.
The prevailing DEA guidance then was sit back, be a good witness taking in all the details for the arriving officers and be prepared to hit the deck face down with your badge face up in hand when the responding units make entry and order everybody down.
The guidance continued that if the shooter was "postal", a disgruntled ex or on crack/PCP - you just as well take him down and risk the friendly fire because if you didn't you were a goner anyway.
------
The thing I learned watching Florida's CCW laws become more enlightened, make sure the state law where you carry is clear, can you use deadly force in protection of yourself, your family, or others
v/r
phil
Praetorian
07-15-2009, 11:14
Prior to becoming an Army JAG I served as a an Army CID agent (Seq # 1586) and they sent me to DEA school. During our undercover techniques this issue was extensively covered. In the situation where you are armed and unrelated to your presence violence errupts (Particularly when you are in "relaxed grooming" standards) the Boys in Blue that respond are pretty well full of adrenaline and expecting violence. The odds are you will become a casualty of Blue on Blue fire if you got a gun in your hand. This caution was expanded upon if you were wearing anything resembling biker gear and special empansis was placed upon agents that were members of minority groups. We were taught that it is a fact of life if you are a black male in street gear when the alarm goes off don't be waiving no gun in the 7-11 whether you are a federal agent or not - odds are you will be perceived as hostile by the responding officers.
The prevailing DEA guidance then was sit back, be a good witness taking in all the details for the arriving officers and be prepared to hit the deck face down with your badge face up in hand when the responding units make entry and order everybody down.
The guidance continued that if the shooter was "postal", a disgruntled ex or on crack/PCP - you just as well take him down and risk the friendly fire because if you didn't you were a goner anyway.
------
The thing I learned watching Florida's CCW laws become more enlightened, make sure the state law where you carry is clear, can you use deadly force in protection of yourself, your family, or others
v/r
phil
X10...
Plus, there is a basic tactical issue. I cant remember the FBI statistic off the top of my head right now, but a significant percentage of "takeover" style robberies involve an "advance man" accomplice who enters the establishment prior to the robbery, and hangs out quietly disguised as a patron while it goes down. His sole job is to make sure the main assailant doesn't encounter resistance.
In that scenario, the would-be Good Samaritan who exposes his firearm to intervene in the robbery will likely never have a chance to use it because he will be shot by the back up.
A few years ago as part of my on-going CCW training I did a LE "use of force" training program where I was put through this very scenario and failed it BIG TIME. I wont forget that lesson, EVER.
Priority #1 Hard Cover.
Priority #2 Escape.
Pulling (and shooting) the gun only comes up as a last resort when 1 and 2 are not options and the bad guy is turning his attention toward me or my loved ones.
Scimitar
07-15-2009, 12:53
QUOTE - SDiver
Holly,
Also look at it this way.....If some dirt bag(s) do happen upon you and your sis in anyway, they're already thinking you're nothing but sheep, so you're an "easy" target.
But low and behold if (when) you pull your piece and happen to drop one of them, or even get off a snap shot, chances are, the others will be running for their lives as fast as they can screaming, "Holy Crap !!!!! That ain't no Sheep....that's a Sheepdog....and SHE'S GOT TEETH !!!!"
Don't be afraid to get your CC.
I'm pretty sure it was a lass with a CC that dropped that dirtbag at that church a while back...yes?
When more woman have teeth that 10% of our gene pool who should be taken outside and lost will think twice before perpetrating a crime against those 'weaker' then themselves.
And now for a little story…
I was dating this Dr a while back and she asked me to go into her purse for something, I saw here ‘little’ stashed in there S&W, and just thought 'hell yeah'!
I didn't have a CC for the US so couldn't carry. Kinda felt weird that if we got in a situation I could yell "Quick honey - Draw" :D
Any reason they don't add an amendment to the AZ Bill stating that anything more then a zero or very low alcohol blood level is cause for revocation? i.e. you can carry into any place that serves alcohol you just can't partake? Other States have done this haven’t they? Are there any particulars on Alcohol Blood limit in the AZ bill?
S
Are there any particulars on Alcohol Blood limit in the AZ bill?
S
The math is easy.
((any drink+any gun+firing gun )/damn good reason)*lawyers= Y
Y= all of your money and perhaps your freedom for a few years
Can't find anything on PA residents with permits being allowed to carry in bars but also can't find anything in writing that says they can't.
Scimitar
07-15-2009, 14:37
The math is easy.
((any drink+any gun+firing gun )/damn good reason)*lawyers= Y
Y= all of your money and perhaps your freedom for a few years
Sten "Your logic is sound"*.
*Spock
:D
S