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View Full Version : It is not difficult to gather personal info people-I did it in 4 hours


zuluzerosix
06-04-2009, 14:41
Recently we sold a vehicle to a customer financed by a subprime bank. He had a trade in and cash down. All of the information (as far as we could check) was valid. He even had 3 months of bank statements verifying his income.

When the paperwork reached the subprime bank, it landed on the desk of a discounter. It is the job of the discounter to verify the information on the application and to ensure the dealer’s paperwork is correct and accurate. Banks have powerful information systems that can instantly verify information and identity. His information did not check out. The bank returned the contract to us. So now we have to get the vehicle back.

None of his phone numbers worked. I could not reach the guy to demand that he return the vehicle. So, I put a map on the wall. Using his 3 credit bureaus I located on the map all of his known addresses, the addresses of his references and nearest relatives. I used colored push pins on every address. Red was his residence and yellow was family and friends.

This is the scary part!

I called his insurance agent, she was more than happy to help. She gave me all of the known address she had, and ran a new DVM report which gave me some new addresses. More pins in the map. Then I called his bank. I had copies of his bank statements so I had the account number. The bank turned out to be one I do business with regularly, so I spoke with our rep. Within a few minutes I had a new address in another town and one for his sister which is a beneficiary on his account in yet another town. Bingo, I thought More pins.

Then I interviewed all the employees here at work that had contact with the guy. He was particularly fond of one of the female employee and had invited her to his “new house” over in the next county. He even gave her the address. It matched the sister’s.

The last few pins went into the map and the circle was completed.

I guess I shouldn’t be shocked. But I was. I could not believe how much info I got from the bank and insurance agent.

It was an amazing pattern. It was a big circle with a little circle in the middle. The big circle was friends; the little circle was his addresses and in the middle, like a bull’s eye was the sister.

Using reverse address lookup services on the web I started calling neighbors at all the addresses to see if he had been there. Using the neighbors at the address listed on the credit application, I was able to find out he was moving to his sister’s house. I contacted the neighbor closest to his sister’s house and asked them to watch for the vehicle and call me with changes. There was $250 in for them if I got the truck back.

While I was making arrangements to seize the vehicle, the neighbor calls and says she can hear them talking out side about going to a friend’s house in the next town.
I recognize the name of the friend (it was a reference on the credit application).

Turns out there is a Wendy’s across the street from the friend’s house, actually it is an apartment on the main drag.

We have an employee in that town that is off today. So I call the employee and send him to lunch at Wendy’s promising to reimburse him for lunch and give him 50 bucks just to watch for the vehicle and fill me in on the layout of the complex. Is it a town home, is there a garage or covered parking, can tow truck get in and out, what floor is the apartment on etc…. The employee calls back later and tells me they are sitting behind him at Wendy’s discussing what to do for the rest of the day. He takes a picture of himself with his cell phone and sends to me. You can clearly see the guy sitting at a table behind him. They decided to go back to the sister’s house because according to the employee the “customer says to his friend out loud, “I got to be back by 4 ‘cause that dud, is commin’ over to get that thing, you know the dude from the other day.”

Drugs.

I go over all this with GM, he his now on his was to the sister’s house with an extra key and our tow truck (we keep the extra key for all subprime deals until the deal is funded by the bank). He has called the neighbors and for an extra $50 they will let him camp out at their place for a while. He will be there before the “customer” arrives. We should have the truck back by close of business today. If nobody gets shot.

Amazing. These folks who gave me info I have never met personally. The bank rep and insurance agent I have only spoken with over the phone a few times. Scary stuff what I was able to do......All in about 4 hours.

The Reaper
06-04-2009, 15:36
Well done!

You obviously know how this could go in reverse if someone was looking to catch you or a family member.

Dangerous business. Yet another reason to keep a low profile.

TR

greenberetTFS
06-04-2009, 15:44
Recently we sold a vehicle to a customer financed by a subprime bank. He had a trade in and cash down. All of the information (as far as we could check) was valid. He even had 3 months of bank statements verifying his income.

When the paperwork reached the subprime bank, it landed on the desk of a discounter. It is the job of the discounter to verify the information on the application and to ensure the dealer’s paperwork is correct and accurate. Banks have powerful information systems that can instantly verify information and identity. His information did not check out. The bank returned the contract to us. So now we have to get the vehicle back.

None of his phone numbers worked. I could not reach the guy to demand that he return the vehicle. So, I put a map on the wall. Using his 3 credit bureaus I located on the map all of his known addresses, the addresses of his references and nearest relatives. I used colored push pins on every address. Red was his residence and yellow was family and friends.

This is the scary part!

I called his insurance agent, she was more than happy to help. She gave me all of the known address she had, and ran a new DVM report which gave me some new addresses. More pins in the map. Then I called his bank. I had copies of his bank statements so I had the account number. The bank turned out to be one I do business with regularly, so I spoke with our rep. Within a few minutes I had a new address in another town and one for his sister which is a beneficiary on his account in yet another town. Bingo, I thought More pins.

Then I interviewed all the employees here at work that had contact with the guy. He was particularly fond of one of the female employee and had invited her to his “new house” over in the next county. He even gave her the address. It matched the sister’s.

The last few pins went into the map and the circle was completed.

I guess I shouldn’t be shocked. But I was. I could not believe how much info I got from the bank and insurance agent.

It was an amazing pattern. It was a big circle with a little circle in the middle. The big circle was friends; the little circle was his addresses and in the middle, like a bull’s eye was the sister.

Using reverse address lookup services on the web I started calling neighbors at all the addresses to see if he had been there. Using the neighbors at the address listed on the credit application, I was able to find out he was moving to his sister’s house. I contacted the neighbor closest to his sister’s house and asked them to watch for the vehicle and call me with changes. There was $250 in for them if I got the truck back.

While I was making arrangements to seize the vehicle, the neighbor calls and says she can hear them talking out side about going to a friend’s house in the next town.
I recognize the name of the friend (it was a reference on the credit application).

Turns out there is a Wendy’s across the street from the friend’s house, actually it is an apartment on the main drag.

We have an employee in that town that is off today. So I call the employee and send him to lunch at Wendy’s promising to reimburse him for lunch and give him 50 bucks just to watch for the vehicle and fill me in on the layout of the complex. Is it a town home, is there a garage or covered parking, can tow truck get in and out, what floor is the apartment on etc…. The employee calls back later and tells me they are sitting behind him at Wendy’s discussing what to do for the rest of the day. He takes a picture of himself with his cell phone and sends to me. You can clearly see the guy sitting at a table behind him. They decided to go back to the sister’s house because according to the employee the “customer says to his friend out loud, “I got to be back by 4 ‘cause that dud, is commin’ over to get that thing, you know the dude from the other day.”

Drugs.

I go over all this with GM, he his now on his was to the sister’s house with an extra key and our tow truck (we keep the extra key for all subprime deals until the deal is funded by the bank). He has called the neighbors and for an extra $50 they will let him camp out at their place for a while. He will be there before the “customer” arrives. We should have the truck back by close of business today. If nobody gets shot.

Amazing. These folks who gave me info I have never met personally. The bank rep and insurance agent I have only spoken with over the phone a few times. Scary stuff what I was able to do......All in about 4 hours.

ZZ6,

I get your point about the fact that you where able to acquire all that personal info in 4 hours.... :rolleyes: My question to you is why didn't you wait for the discounters blessing on the loan before you released the truck,it seems his was absolutely needed in order for the loan to be finally approved ? :confused: That was 4 hours of aggravation I don't think you would of had to endure....:(

GB TFS :munchin

zuluzerosix
06-04-2009, 15:45
Well done!

You obviously know how this could go in reverse if someone was looking to catch you or a family member.

Dangerous business. Yet another reason to keep a low profile.

TR

No doubt Sir, it scared me. I keep trying to imagine what the big boys can do (I don't mean collection agencies) but I can't.

zuluzerosix
06-04-2009, 15:49
ZZ6,

I get your point about the fact that you where able to acquire all that personal info in 4 hours.... :rolleyes: My question to you is why didn't you wait for the discounters blessing on the loan before you released the truck,it seems his was absolutely needed in order for the loan to be finally approved ? :confused: That was 4 hours of aggravation I don't think you would of had to endure....:(

GB TFS :munchin

I would love to do it that way, but you can't. Once the customer signs a contract you have a deal. The law gives no recourse if the loan doesn't go through. The contract does. WE have 10 days from the date of sale to rescind the contract if the bank does not fund. A lot of dealer don't use a contract that has a seller's right to cancel. Under CA law posession is everything. If we don't get the vehicle back with 10 days, we become the bank.

greenberetTFS
06-04-2009, 15:58
I would love to do it that way, but you can't. Once the customer signs a contract you have a deal. The law gives no recourse if the loan doesn't go through. The contract does. WE have 10 days from the date of sale to rescind the contract if the bank does not fund. A lot of dealer don't use a contract that has a seller's right to cancel. Under CA law posession is everything. If we don't get the vehicle back with 10 days, we become the bank.

ZZ6,

I gotcha.......;)

GB TFS :munchin

zuluzerosix
06-04-2009, 16:31
It's back now. So now we wait for the other shoe to drop. There are always two shoes. BTW, when the guy was here buying, he told the female employee he was a retired agent from one of our three-lettered intelligence agencies that operates over seas. I crap-you-not.

I was not here when the initial deal was done. If I was, I probably would not have done the deal. I have turned down sales before when the customer didn't seem right. We get them all the time. The funny thing is , they are all former double naught-spys, Green Berets and SEALs and Millionaires, CEO's, CFO's etc....And I don't care about that stuff. Hell, I have a retired Gunnery Sergeant that works for me that told people here he hunted drug lords in the jungles of Panama with a crossbow!


I have a few military plaques on the walls of my office. I meet more double-naughts and Special Operators than you can imagine.

I use "Double-Naught and "Special" very loosely when I refer to them. This was just another wacko too.

He'll be here soon looking for his down payment. We will have it ready for him.

Buffalobob
06-04-2009, 19:17
When I was looking for a big block vette, I would look at the classifieds and run the phone numbers through the internet to get the address and then drive by and take a look to see if I actually wanted to talk to the person.

Sigaba
06-05-2009, 17:22
My personal best for finding people was back in the late 1990s.

Three guys were mouthing off in an IRC chat room. Within four minutes, I told them their names, what school they attended, what building they were in, what computers they were sitting at, and asked them what their coach would say of their behavior.:munchin (I must disclose that I didn't notice a fourth guy.)

A few years later, it took a bit longer to find specific software engineer in South Korea named Kim. (Or was it Lee?)

Fortunately, system administrators and end users are a bit wiser these days. Best of all, most schools seem to have discontinued the practice of using students' social security numbers as their student identification numbers.:eek:

Then again, there was some guy last year who dared me to do my worst. He changed his tone a couple of minutes later when I told him his name, his home address, and his home phone number and then asked him what kinds of toppings he wanted on the twenty pizzas he was about to order.

Last year, I quoted back to my boss something she'd told the New York Times fifteen years earlier but had no memory of ever saying.

It is scary to think what someone who knew what they were doing could find.:(