View Full Version : Supervisor Asks Woman To Take Down American Flag
Team Sergeant
05-27-2009, 19:46
Screw the tea parties, it's time for an all out armed revolution.
MANSFIELD (CBS 11 News) ―
Supervisor Asks Woman To Take Down American Flag
Is it okay to show your patriotism at the office?
For one Arlington woman, the answer was "no" after she hung an American flag in her office just before the Memorial Day weekend.
Debbie McLucas is one of four hospital supervisors at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield. Last week, she hung a three-by-five foot American flag in the office she shares with the other supervisors.
When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive. "I was just totally speechless. I was like, 'You're kidding me,'" McLucas said.
McLucas' husband and sons are former military men. Her daughter is currently serving in Iraq as a combat medic.
Stifling a cry, McLucas said, "I just wonder if all those young men and women over there are really doing this for nothing."
McLucas said the supervisor who complained has been in the United States for 14 years and is formerly from Africa. McLucas said that supervisor took down the flag herself.
"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.
"I was told it wouldn't matter if it was only one person," she said. "It would have to come down."
McLucas said hospital bosses told her as far as patriotism was concerned, the flag flying outside the hospital building would have to suffice.
"I find it very frightening because if I can't display my flag," McLucas asked, "what other freedoms will I lose before all is said and done?"
Kindred Healthcare's corporate headquarters are located in Kentucky. We called them for comment when we were first working on this story Tuesday, but they did not return our calls.
Wednesday morning, however, our story received nationwide attention. We have received hundreds of emails and comments from people who had something to say about it. Several dozen people protested outside the Mansfield hospital Wednesday. And a receptionist at Kindred's headquarters told us they received many phone calls.
Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."
We talked to McLucas Wednesday afternoon. She says the hospital's local CEO called and apologized. And McLucas says the woman did tell her she could put the flag back up, which she has done.
But she says when she was first told the flag had to go, nobody mentioned anything about its size.
"At no point was I afforded the opportunity -- [no one said,] 'Hey Deb, could you get a one and a half by three and a half and hang it instead of hanging this three by five?'" McLucas said.
Even so, McLucas says she's happy people have spoken out about the issue. "It's just restored my faith in the American people," she said.
http://cbs11tv.com/local/patriotism.at.office.2.1020415.html
Puertoland
05-27-2009, 20:00
Its no surprise there are traitors in our midst, but if we ever allow anything like this to happen without voicing or acting against it then they will get the courage to begin taking the country apart. I don't understand why its not required to fly the American flag in an American institution.
And the asshole who found the flag offensive can go back to Africa, there is a reason he has been here for 14 years, and it isn't because the country offends him.
doctom54
05-27-2009, 20:08
Its no surprise there are traitors .............
And the asshole who found the flag offensive can go back to Africa, there is a reason he has been here for 14 years, and it isn't because the country offends him.
I concur
BigJimCalhoun
05-27-2009, 20:10
I read on another forum where the phone number of the place was posted and members were encouraged to call and voice their disapproval. Evidently, the place got a lot of calls. What a PR nightmare for them.
Hell we have Flags flying from every cubicle and I have one on the billboard by the fax/copy machine.
I dare anyone to come into my office and tell me to take our flags down. :munchin
Spartan359
05-27-2009, 23:33
"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said.
Holy Shit this infuriates me.
Damn the consequences, you throw my flag on the floor your asking for an ass whippin.
:mad:
I read on another forum where the phone number of the place was posted and members were encouraged to call and voice their disapproval. Evidently, the place got a lot of calls. What a PR nightmare for them.
and a lack of patient care during the incident, agreed?
frostfire
05-28-2009, 09:15
and a lack of patient care during the incident, agreed?
very probable.
Other health care personnel may disagree, but IMHOO, hospitals (and nursing) can be the ultimate setting for PC gone wild. It is just as the article described, even if just one person complained, the flag had to come down. All in the name of collective good and everybody feels good. Hey, it's the 'healing' environment after all. We have to empathize with and accommodate everyone's 'needs'
The attitude of the complaining supervisor does not surprise me at all. Not only folks from Africa, I've met immigrants, both permanent residence and US citizens from Asia, Europe, South America...or practically everywhere, who still view their birthplace as their country and America as the land of opportunist/smooching. With freedom, comes abuse.
There was once a discussion here of mandatory military service (or at least Peace Corps) for immigrants. There were a lot of opposition esp. in trust issue, but I pretty much support that idea. If anything, hopefully it can filter those who are willing to pay the price from those who want to avoid or unaware of the cost.
UPDATE: Kindred Hospital to allow Mansfield employee's American flag display
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/052809dnmetkindredflag.21d73b21.html
Ya gotta love the first blog response.
Wonder how often this happens and does not get the attention it deserves. And the fact that they placed it on the floor. I'd fire someone over that fact, Amazing where things seem to be headed...:mad:
The Reaper
05-28-2009, 09:34
Was it one of Obama's relatives, here illegally who was offended by the flag?
TR
Aoresteen
05-28-2009, 10:49
I wonder if someone saw a poster of Obama in a worker's cube and found that offensive, would a complaint bring it down?
Team Sergeant
05-28-2009, 10:50
I wonder if someone saw a poster of Obama in a worker's cube and found that offensive, would a complaint bring it down?
I like the way you think..... it's worth a try. ;)
I wonder if someone saw a poster of Obama in a worker's cube and found that offensive, would a complaint bring it down?
They would say something along the line of you must be a racist, a bigot, a homophob or conservative.
The Reaper
05-28-2009, 11:25
They would say something along the line of you must be a racist, a bigot, a homophob or conservative.
Don't forget the other epithets - Christian, gun-owner, or Republican.
TR
Kyobanim
05-28-2009, 12:40
. . . or American.
Utah Bob
05-28-2009, 12:50
Godammit!:mad::mad:
That's about all I can articulate right now.
TommyGun
05-28-2009, 13:09
I agree with the revolution...count me in...I'll even be your ammo bearer...
TG
REMEMBER: Pictures and Posters of the Messiah as well as Che Guevara are totally exceptible by the left. This is a bit off theme, but watching Obama speak with his chin turned up and him looking down at the camera, does anyone else have visions of Mussolini speaking from the balcony?
The Reaper
05-28-2009, 15:30
This is a bit off theme, but watching Obama speak with his chin turned up and him looking down at the camera, does anyone else have visions of Mussolini speaking from the balcony?
I believe that this thought has been articulated a few times:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=263440&postcount=6
TR
I email the organization and wish them the best in relocating in another country.
6.8SPC_DUMP
05-28-2009, 17:44
Disheartening and disgraceful. What type of EE manual do they have that they are worried about a lawsuit??? Hope no one treats that person to a swine flu sandwich.
At the company I worked HR in I could have told them to read the EE manual and remind them they aren't getting paid to look at other EE's desks.
greenberetTFS
05-28-2009, 17:49
They would say something along the line of you must be a racist, a bigot, a homophob or conservative.
Pete and TR,
I concur with both of you....... :) I fall back with what I stated a few days ago. Patriotism isn't what is was when I was a kid in the 40's. I'm glad I'm an old fart and won't be around to see what I'm afraid will happen to our country. :mad: I just pray to GOD I'm wrong....:confused:
GB TFS :munchin
Screw the tea parties, it's time for an all out armed revolution
With a a few key storkes and a some rodo points, I'm GTG.............
armymom1228
05-28-2009, 20:45
I wonder if someone saw a poster of Obama in a worker's cube and found that offensive, would a complaint bring it down?
Well the Vets who had a flaming hissy fit at the kiosk on Sunday outside The Wall made it come down... his poster that is.
They stated that the kiosk was for Veterans NOT politics. So the Rolling Thunder people took down the signs indicating that presidental stuff was for sale..but did not remove the stuff.. :D My feeling was it was more this president than the last that offended them. Of course BHO did not make an appearance at the event.. George did... was there when he showed very briefly.. at least he showed.
armymom1228
05-28-2009, 21:00
There was once a discussion here of mandatory military service (or at least Peace Corps) for immigrants. There were a lot of opposition esp. in trust issue, but I pretty much support that idea. If anything, hopefully it can filter those who are willing to pay the price from those who want to avoid or unaware of the cost.
I work with a lot of Africans that openly hate this country. It irritates me beyond measure. I have a uniform top that has american flags and the statue of liberty on it.. and a lot more that I made in the red white and blue theme. I used to wear that color scheme while my kid was deployed.. That top apparently offended an African who complained. I was asked to not wear it again.. so I didn't I just wore the others in that scheme, some had flags, others stars and stripes.. all were patriotic fabric.. when she complained again, I politely asked if anyone wished to replace all my uniforms as that is what they all were. I was dismissed with no comment and no reprimand. I wore them another couple of weeks and then went back to my usual tropical prints.
I think that anyone who is given a green card should have 5 yrs to become a citizen. If they don't then the card gets revoked and they get deported..
In addition, other countries should work with the US and revoke the original countries passport, and for a period of 10 yrs after that, if that person commits a crime they lose citizenship and get permanently deported.
I don't give a rat's ass about the divided land in Texas. Build a fence on the north and the south... control the border...do what they do off the coast. ICE does interdiction, and sends them right back to Haiti, or wherever they come from.
sleepyhead4
05-28-2009, 23:43
I work with a lot of Africans that openly hate this country. It irritates me beyond measure. I have a uniform top that has american flags and the statue of liberty on it.. and a lot more that I made in the red white and blue theme. I used to wear that color scheme while my kid was deployed.. That top apparently offended an African who complained. I was asked to not wear it again.. so I didn't I just wore the others in that scheme, some had flags, others stars and stripes.. all were patriotic fabric.. when she complained again, I politely asked if anyone wished to replace all my uniforms as that is what they all were. I was dismissed with no comment and no reprimand. I wore them another couple of weeks and then went back to my usual tropical prints.
I think that anyone who is given a green card should have 5 yrs to become a citizen. If they don't then the card gets revoked and they get deported..
In addition, other countries should work with the US and revoke the original countries passport, and for a period of 10 yrs after that, if that person commits a crime they lose citizenship and get permanently deported.
I don't give a rat's ass about the divided land in Texas. Build a fence on the north and the south... control the border...do what they do off the coast. ICE does interdiction, and sends them right back to Haiti, or wherever they come from.
As much as I agree that people who don't appreciate this country should leave, you can't single out immigrants without doing the same to the US citizens who do the same. In my opinion, we have more ungrateful people who we call fellow citizens than we do ungrateful immigrants. So should we make all these "ungrateful" people serve?
If it's an issue of green cards and obtaining citizenship, then you need to fully understand the naturalization process before chiming in with "good" ideas. My mother took over 7 years to get her citizenship, which was not entirely her doing. Should she have gotten her citizenship at her first opportunity? Sure. Could she have done it while working and raising 2 kids all by herself...probably, but she had other priorities. So by your logic she should have been deported. It's a good thing she didn't because her two kids both grew up to serve in the US military (Army & USMC) as officers, serving past their obligation. You might be surprised by the level of patriotism you can find in the immigrant population.
I apologize if I come off a bit harsh to your comment, but to me it's personal when you single out one group without even mentioning the issues we have with our own fellow citizens.
Rant off.
I think there are a lot of pieces missing to this puzzle and it may not be quite as cut and dry as reported. ;)
A 3' x 5' flag in a space shared by four supervisors in a hospital - which is generally not all that big a space - may have been a bit of an aesthetic overkill for the area.
We also don't know the relationships of the supervisors and there may have been other issues of an on-going nature - to include a pattern of overtly jingoistic patriotism from the perceived victim - which precipitated the whole thing. Also, why did another supervisor carry the message that yet another was supposedly upset over the flag? Kinda sounds like a bit of proverbial office discord pot stirring to me.
And then there's the matter of why the woman - who so presumptively figured it would be OK to put up such a large flag to begin with - didn't coordinate it with the group - most companies have rules as to what may or may not be placed on display in their facilities for obvious reasons.
Bottom line - this whole thing sounded as if it was mishandled from bottom to top - ending with the corporate HQs seemingly bowing to media pressure w/o making any sort of statement as to why they decided to do what they did.
IMO - PC also runs both ways, and reporters are always looking to stir up the feces of ill-informed public opinion to get their names in print and then toss more literary fuel onto the fires they've started to keep the flames burning.
I'd like to hear the whole story but seriously doubt if that'll ever happen now that everyone's toes, egos, and rights have been publicly trod upon. :(
Richard's $.02 :munchin
armymom1228
05-29-2009, 08:47
As much as I agree that people who don't appreciate this country should leave, you can't single out immigrants without doing the same to the US citizens who do the same. In my opinion, we have more ungrateful people who we call fellow citizens than we do ungrateful immigrants. So should we make all these "ungrateful" people serve?
If it's an issue of green cards and obtaining citizenship, then you need to fully understand the naturalization process before chiming in with "good" ideas. My mother took over 7 years to get her citizenship, which was not entirely her doing. Should she have gotten her citizenship at her first opportunity? Sure. Could she have done it while working and raising 2 kids all by herself...probably, but she had other priorities. So by your logic she should have been deported. It's a good thing she didn't because her two kids both grew up to serve in the US military (Army & USMC) as officers, serving past their obligation. You might be surprised by the level of patriotism you can find in the immigrant population.
I apologize if I come off a bit harsh to your comment, but to me it's personal when you single out one group without even mentioning the issues we have with our own fellow citizens.
Rant off.
I was not the person who made the comment about 'serving', Sir..
I do take responsibility for desiring that obtaining citizenship be a requirement for keeping one's green card. My timing of 5 yrs, is what I have read is the average length of time most take. If someone is actively pursuing that issue then by all means, give them as much leeway as we possibly can.. pursueing that goal is the object.
My mother in law has been in this country, since 1947. She has yet to even attempt to pursue citizenship.. and her son , my ex, was an officer as well. He flew helos for the 101 Air Cav out of Da Nang. Of course his father was Army Air Force (my dad's good friend) and an US Citizen. His family was here before the white man chose to grace these shores. He had his own distinct opinions on 'immigration'.:D
I am truly sorry if I offended you in anyway...it was now, nor ever my intent.
With regards to making immigrants serve.. I dunno... not everyone's jib is cut out to be military. Mine sure wasn't, but it was cut to serve those who serve. I derive a great deal of pleasure from working for and serving, and advocating for Vets.
dr. mabuse
05-29-2009, 19:12
Can't hardly believe it. This nonsense happens ~20 minutes from my house and in Texas no less.
For me, the big issue was some numbnuts laid down the flag on the floor and no one called them on it immediately.
There is no excuse for it.:mad:
ZooKeeper
05-29-2009, 20:25
Holy Shit this infuriates me.
Damn the consequences, you throw my flag on the floor your asking for an ass whippin.
:mad:
That part bothered me the most.
And then there's the matter of why the woman - who so presumptively figured it would be OK to put up such a large flag to begin with - didn't coordinate it with the group - most companies have rules as to what may or may not be placed on display in their facilities for obvious reasons.Since when do we have to coordinate the display of the American flag...prior to memorial day?
Bottom line - I would've gotten fired on-the-spot!:eek: God knows, I would've came up with some smartass reply.;)
Stay safe.
sleepyhead4
05-30-2009, 00:20
I was not the person who made the comment about 'serving', Sir..
I do take responsibility for desiring that obtaining citizenship be a requirement for keeping one's green card. My timing of 5 yrs, is what I have read is the average length of time most take. If someone is actively pursuing that issue then by all means, give them as much leeway as we possibly can.. pursueing that goal is the object.
My mother in law has been in this country, since 1947. She has yet to even attempt to pursue citizenship.. and her son , my ex, was an officer as well. He flew helos for the 101 Air Cav out of Da Nang. Of course his father was Army Air Force (my dad's good friend) and an US Citizen. His family was here before the white man chose to grace these shores. He had his own distinct opinions on 'immigration'.:D
I am truly sorry if I offended you in anyway...it was now, nor ever my intent.
With regards to making immigrants serve.. I dunno... not everyone's jib is cut out to be military. Mine sure wasn't, but it was cut to serve those who serve. I derive a great deal of pleasure from working for and serving, and advocating for Vets.
I have my own opinion about immigration and patriotism, which I believe mirrors your beliefs. It just gets under my skin when generalized statements are made about any one group of people, even the liberal left.
Nonetheless, I appreciate your support for the veterans and this site. And thank you for taking the time to explain your view after my rant.
As for the topic discussed on this thread, I believe we have gone way over board with being PC. Call a spade a spade rather than trying to appease everyone or no one.
I feel that Debbie McLucas should wear clothing showing the American Flag on it some how.
If I was her I would of said, well if it is distastefuly in your eyes then go back to Africa or whatever country they are all from.
I emailed the organization and suggested may they move to another country. I received a reply;
We share your anger and hurt about the removal of the flag. It is
very important to clarify that a misunderstanding has been communicated
through the media. The supervisor that is described in the media is actually
the co-worker of Ms. McLucas and not Ms. McLucas's immediate supervisor. The
incident was two nursing supervisors who got into a dispute.
It was wrong and disrespectful and as soon as we learned about it, we took
immediate action to correct the situation. The flag is now proudly displayed
once again, and we apologize to all who were equally offended by this
unpatriotic action, including the owner of the flag. We have reprimanded the
employee and let them know we don't tolerate behavior inconsistent with our
Company's values.
I think there are a lot of pieces missing to this puzzle and it may not be quite as cut and dry as reported.
<<SNIP>>
I'd like to hear the whole story but seriously doubt if that'll ever happen now that everyone's toes, egos, and rights have been publicly trod upon.
The incident was two nursing supervisors who got into a dispute.
Having a nurse for a housemate and having had hospitals for clients, I've learned a great deal over the last few years about how vicious and petty the infighting can be. At times, it seems that patients are the least of some health care professionals' concerns.
Since when do we have to coordinate the display of the American flag...prior to memorial day? .
When you are intending to display it on/in someone else's property.
When I was in business, employees where prohibited from attaching/hanging anything (personal items) to/on the walls/doors.
greenberetTFS
06-02-2009, 16:28
When you are intending to display it on/in someone else's property.
When I was in business, employees where prohibited from attaching/hanging anything (personal items) to/on the walls/doors.
WCH,
Your right about most displays...... But as GUY stated we are talking about the American Flag here, I and he don't think we'd need permission to display it........ ;)
GB TFS :munchin
When you are intending to display it on/in someone else's property.
When I was in business, employees where prohibited from attaching/hanging anything (personal items) to/on the walls/doors.
Yep.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
6.8SPC_DUMP
06-02-2009, 20:25
When you are intending to display it on/in someone else's property.
When I was in business, employees where prohibited from attaching/hanging anything (personal items) to/on the walls/doors.
If it's office policy I'd have no problem with taking it down (in a respectful manner with due notice).
But, respectfully Sir, there is nothing to indicate that was the case.
her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive.
But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained
I have a hard time believing many patients' families and visitors were offended and in an office with 3 supervisors I have a hard time believing that the flag interfered w/ the working space of the two other supervisors.
Swine Flu sandwich aside I'm happy with the results:
Wednesday morning, however, our story received nationwide attention. We have received hundreds of emails and comments from people who had something to say about it. Several dozen people protested outside the Mansfield hospital Wednesday. And a receptionist at Kindred's headquarters told us they received many phone calls.
Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."
I have a hard time believing many patients' families and visitors were offended and in an office with 3 supervisors I have a hard time believing that the flag interfered w/ the working space of the two other supervisors.
Not much experience in an office environment, I have to assume. The wonderfully wide and petulant mine-filled world of business, education, law, and bureaucratic in-fighting awaits your youthful omniscience with abated breath. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
6.8SPC_DUMP
06-03-2009, 07:23
Not much experience in an office environment, I have to assume. The wonderfully wide and petulant mine-filled world of business, education, law, and bureaucratic in-fighting awaits your youthful omniscience with abated breath. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
My preferred portfolio was up over 9% in 2008 - and do you think I wasn't called a moron by my colleges - and called a fluke afterwards. And also by not making a rebound equal to the current QQQ/S&P in 2009?
The wonderfully wide and petulant mine-filled world of business, education, law, and bureaucratic in-fighting awaits your youthful omniscience with abated breath.
That's affirmative Sir. $hit downward when taking me under your wing.
Thanks for proving my hypotheses. :)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
The Reaper
06-03-2009, 11:19
My preferred portfolio was up over 9% in 2008 - and do you think I wasn't called a moron by my colleges - and called a fluke afterwards.
You have colleges?
TR
6.8SPC_DUMP
06-03-2009, 11:42
You have colleges?
TR
Yes.
Slantwire
06-03-2009, 12:29
Yes.
That's pretty impressive. I must move in poorer circles. My colleagues and I can only claim to have attended colleges.
The Reaper
06-03-2009, 13:13
Yes.
Can you name them?
TR
WCH,
Your right about most displays...... But as GUY stated we are talking about the American Flag here, I and he don't think we'd need permission to display it........ ;)
GB TFS :munchin
I beg to differ, unless you own the wall or have permission to do so from the owner, you have no right to hang or attach anything to it.
If it's office policy I'd have no problem with taking it down (in a respectful manner with due notice).
But, respectfully Sir, there is nothing to indicate that was the case.
I was addressing Guy's question, not the case in the news article. As Richard said, we don't have the full story and probably never will. There's also nothing to indicate that it (prohibition) was not in company policy.
As far as due notice goes, if it happened in my company, I would have taken the flag down, folded it, put in a box along with any other personal items from her office and had it ready for the former employee to pick up on her way out of the building for the final time.
Not much experience in an office environment, I have to assume. The wonderfully wide and petulant mine-filled world of business, education, law, and bureaucratic in-fighting awaits your youthful omniscience with abated breath. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Yes sir!
Not much experience in an office environment, I have to assume. The wonderfully wide and petulant mine-filled world of business, education, law, and bureaucratic in-fighting awaits your youthful omniscience with abated breath.
I have in the past slogged my way through the muck and mire of that swamp. This is why I started my own business. I dont play well with others.
I have in the past slogged my way through the muck and mire of that swamp. This is why I started my own business. I dont play well with others.
I think your current avatar already led us to suspect as much - it brought back memories of Earhquake McGoon stirring up the $h*t in Dogpatch, USA. :p
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Why Thank You Richard, that was a touching compliment.
6.8SPC_DUMP
06-03-2009, 20:11
How about you phrase that another way.
You and others are right about that.
ADDED:
Spell check is normally my friend - sorry for the mix up - SA skills lacking here.
[QUOTE=The Reaper;267997]Can you name them?
TR[/QUOTE
Something you want to say to me?
How about you phrase that another way.