View Full Version : Making sure they get the message
Team Sergeant
05-27-2009, 19:26
Wow, reading this you "Army" guys and Special Forces types are as screwed up as a soup sandwich...... You Army types forgot to inform the AF that you had a play-date...... and it's all your fault!!!!!
(Oh and Maj. Richard Fletcher, the AF does not own those AC-130's, Special Operations does.)
Team Sergeant
Making sure they get the message
Commentary by Maj. Richard Fletcher
305th Aircraft Maintenance Squadron commander
5/27/2009 - JOINT BASE McGUIRE-DIX-LAKEHURST -- You've heard it before...those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
This was never more apparent than when the United States first engaged in the war in Afghanistan. In January 2002, U.S. military and the Northern Alliance, the anti-Taliban militant force, were pounding the abusive Taliban government into retreat. At this point in the war, air power was becoming more supportive to the ground forces after successfully demonstrating the ability to strike the enemy with exacting precision.
The U.S. Army and Special Forces radio calls for close air support were met with precision guided bombs, from B-52s, B-1s, F-15s, F-14s, F-18s, F-16s, and AC-130 aircraft. These aircraft did not magically appear on the scene. It took communication in the form of planning and scheduling to ensure aircraft were over the target, and the Air Force was aware of ground operations.
During Operation Anaconda, the ground forces forgot the lessons of the previous five months. As a result of the successes, the operational commander assumed air power was always available and did not notify the Air Component Commander of the impending operation set to begin in early March 2002.
Instead, the operational commander notified his air counterpart one week prior to the operation kicking off. Additionally, the Special Forces component intended to execute a mission in the same area. Yet, they did not consult with the operational commander or the air commander to deconflict events in the area of operations.
The results of the communication error included poor execution, prolonged operations, failure of expectations, lack of trust by the joint force and loss of life.
No doubt communication is vital to an organization effectively carrying out its mission. Communication is not a passive activity. Communication requires action. There are many avenues and tools available to communicate information.
The key to communication is to communicate it. How profound is that? A senior executive service civilian at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, who specializes in communication and continuous process improvement, told a group of logistics managers, the most effective way to communicate with your Airmen is to do so six times in six different ways.
Six times is not too difficult, but six ways? Let's think about it...commander's call, e-mail, webpage, phone calls, roll call, video monitors (commander's channel), newsletters and staff meetings. How about face-to-face communication, or leadership walking around the work area?
Sound challenging? You bet it is. But think of the consequences of not doing so.
Do you have any barriers to communication? Sometimes, it is not so obvious. For example, the Special Forces community has a secretive culture, which can present obstacles to communication when working in a joint environment.
Other obstacles can be more visible: perhaps a supervisor who does not want to hear bad news, or an Airman who is too shy to speak up. Regardless of the obstacles, our challenge as Airmen is to move beyond them, move forward and get the mission done.
If you want to fail, stop communicating with your Airmen; this includes Airmen communicating up the chain. Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen depend on communication to conduct business; just ask the families of those lost in Operation Anaconda.
http://www.mcguire.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123151252
doctom54
05-27-2009, 20:25
You will note it is from a MAJOR in a Maintenance Unit.
He knows as much about USAF Special Ops and SF as my mother. Or maybe a little less
blue02hd
05-28-2009, 02:38
So that Air Force Liason I sat next to in K2 evidently didn't understand what the rest of the TOC around him was doing, and he was chatting on MYSPACE the entire time during the named operation? This "Officer" has no idea what he is writing about, and to refer to the families of the men lost in Anaconda as a way to emphasize his point will get his ass kicked if proximately allows.
The key to communication is to communicate it. How profound is that? A senior executive service civilian at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, who specializes in communication and continuous process improvement, told a group of logistics managers, the most effective way to communicate with your Airmen is to do so six times in six different ways.
Six times is not too difficult, but six ways? Let's think about it...commander's call, e-mail, webpage, phone calls, roll call, video monitors (commander's channel), newsletters and staff meetings. How about face-to-face communication, or leadership walking around the work area?
Sounds like he's trying to add an element of "wink"* hooah to an otherwise typical loggie toad regurgitation of the obvious found around TRASHCOM type units.
Richard's $.02 :munchin
* In the know
Ret10Echo
05-28-2009, 05:10
The key to communication is to communicate it. How profound is that? A senior executive service civilian at Hill Air Force Base, Utah, who specializes in communication and continuous process improvement, told a group of logistics managers, the most effective way to communicate with your Airmen is to do so six times in six different ways.
What happened to telling your troops ONCE and having them DO IT? Where is the part that talks about people actively seeking to contribute? See the gap and fill it. :mad:
" Why didn't you do that Airman Schmuck?"
"I was only asked 3 times in 4 different ways....how was I supposed to know my supervisor really meant for me to do something?"
"You are 100% correct Airman, we will put your suprevisor in remedial training for failing to inform you properly."
Six times is not too difficult, but six ways? Let's think about it...commander's call, e-mail, webpage, phone calls, roll call, video monitors (commander's channel), newsletters and staff meetings. How about face-to-face communication, or leadership walking around the work area?
I agree with Ret10. Tell them once and it will get done. Tell them 6 times........
Some folks would call that micro management?
But what would you expect from the AF? Live nuke munitions on a aircraft. Guess that tell them 6 times in 6 different ways doesn't work either?
The Reaper
05-28-2009, 08:09
How about I tell you once, then remind you once, after that, I'll assume you either don't care or are too stupid to get it, and bring my baseball bat so we can try a different message delivery technique. If I have to tell you six times, one of us is going to be dead or incarcerated.
The CJSOTF had liaisons at the air component command and IIRC, the air component had a liaison at the CJSOTF to coordinate and deconflict missions.
I would not be so quick to point the finger at any specific unit and assess blame for failure to communicate.
At one point in OEF, the US Air Force had killed more SF troops than the Taliban, and almost killed Karzai. I really don't care what a REMF AF maintenance unit commander thinks. I can tell him that six times, in six different ways, but I do not think he will like it, or be mission capable afterwards.
TR
How about I tell you once, then remind you once, after that, I'll assume you either don't care or are too stupid to get it, and bring my baseball bat so we can try a different message delivery technique. If I have to tell you six times, one of us is going to be dead or incarcerated.
Exactly. This whole things sounds like my wife and I with our three sons. She tells them something over and over and over - and they get used to just tuning her out. The consequences - more yakking.
I tell them once and they know that if I'm saying it, it isn't just to hear myself talk. The consequences - well, I've had to jack each of them up at least once and they know it'll happen again if necessary.
My wife still doesn't quite understand how this works - especially with males. ;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
My wife still doesn't quite understand how this works RICHARD: I have the same problem with my English Setter. Wife will complain to me: "YOUR dog never listens to me, all you have to do is mention what you want and he does it." The formula is simple. Words+Words, still equals Words. Words + Action=Reaction.
to refer to the families of the men lost in Anaconda as a way to emphasize his point will get his ass kicked if proximately allows.
IF this occasion ever arises and you have advanced notice, please make a posting on the board. I'd pay big money to attend the festivities. :munchin
Utah Bob
05-28-2009, 12:55
I love words like "deconflict".
How about I tell you once, .......
What?
You been listening at the door again to a Segeant Major's Team Sergeant meeting:D.
Later
"And now for what was put out in the Bn CSM's meeting....." - books slowly close, pens put away, eyes roll back in the head...........
"Did you get all that?" "Yeah - roger that - all right here - never forget"
Source is here (http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/news/story_media.asp?id=123127372).
SOUTHWEST ASIA -- Maj. Richard Fletcher, 386th Expeditionary Maintenance Squadron commander, tosses a chock as far as he can during a chock tossing event at the 1st Coalition Maintenance Olympics on Dec. 6 at an air base in Southwest Asia. The 386th Expeditionary Maintenance Group invited the Republic of Korea Air Force and Japanese Air Self Defense Force maintenance units to participate in the games, which included such events as the Tow Bar Challenge, Strongman Competition and Power Cart Push. (U.S. Air Force photo/Tech. Sgt. Raheem Moore)
It is my understanding that MAJ Fletcher is using his impressive communication skills to get Foot In Mouth Insertion added as a competitive event. The winner of this contest will get the Pelosi Medal.
The Reaper
05-28-2009, 13:22
Source is here (http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/news/story_media.asp?id=123127372).
It is my understanding that MAJ Fletcher is using his impressive communication skills to get Foot In Mouth Insertion added as a competitive event. The winner of this contest will get the Pelosi Medal.
What is that, the AF uniform display (less the informal version they just announced)?
Looks like he is trying to get ready to join the military.:rolleyes:
TR
Source is here (http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?id=123127372).
386th MXG hosts Coalition Maintenance Olympics
by 1st Lt. Thomas Durkin
386th Expeditionary Aircraft Maintenance Squadron
12/10/2008 - SOUTHWEST ASIA -- The 386th Expeditionary Maintenance Group hosted the1st Coalition Maintenance Olympics Dec. 6, in order close out a successful deployment with a "healthy competition" among friends.
The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF), Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) and the U.S Air Force squared off in a friendly competition of skill, speed and strength for the maintenance personnel across each of the services. The day was a final farewell to the maintenance brethren as they get ready to leave Southwest Asia.
"This was a unique opportunity for maintainers to come together to show off their skills in the heat of competition," said Capt. Brian Mix, 386th EXMG officer. "It exemplified the level of camaraderie and esprit de corps that exists so strongly within the maintenance community, and it showed that even across coalition lines we are truly a family of professionals striving towards one common goal."
The day's events started with Olympic pageantry, including opening remarks from the Olympic Committee Chairman Col. Herb Phillips, 386th EMXG commander. He welcomed the six teams and charged all to have a safe and friendly competition.
The first event, the relay race, consisted of running 220 yards to three different stations while performing maintenance related tasks such as raising maintenance stands, sorting tools and reassembling a toolbox. The event resulted in a tie between the 386th Expeditionary Maintenance Squadron and ROKAF teams.
After the relay race it was on to the chock toss, an event which turned out to be the unanimous favorite among participants. Each team sent two of their strongest forward to throw an aircraft chock as far as they could. Using an unorthodox, backwards throw, the JASDF team blew away the competition by a whopping 25 feet!
Other events included a Tow Bar Challenge, the Wrench Toss and Power Cart Push obstacle course. The Power Cart Push proved difficult and frustrating for many; however the 386th EMXS was able to maneuver the power cart through the course with ease, which, according to fellow maintainers, left others wondering if they had been practicing for days.
In the Strongman competition, each team had a competitor hold a set of aircraft chocks at a ninety degree angle from their body. The 386th Expeditionary Aircraft Maintenance Squadron was able to squeak out a victory over the 386th EMXS, with Senior Airman Matthew Gersman holding out the longest of all contestants.
The final event of the day was the Tow Vehicle Pull, where ten people from each team pulled a 53,000 pound tow vehicle ten yards. The 386th EAMXS was able to "pull" out the victory, putting them over the top to claim the overall Coalition Maintenance Olympics title.
Lt. Col. Alfred Bello, 386th EAMXS commander said of the games, "The day was a phenomenal success and a fitting tribute to the outstanding relationship we've had with our fellow coalition maintainers."
Just shaking my head:rolleyes:
Team Sergeant
05-28-2009, 14:28
Maj. Richard Fletcher is about to get a reality check.
Right about now the USASOC Commander is probably reading what the good MAJ wrote and he was the Special Forces Ground Commander in A-Stan at the time.;)
Monsoon65
05-28-2009, 14:38
Tell an Airman six times? You're yanking me, Major.
As TR said, I tell him once, then remind him if it's not done. After that, it gets ugly. I think the correct method after that is, "grabbing him/her by the stacking swivel".
And as everyone has pointed out, what does a maintenance pogue know about AFSOC and what was going on at the CJSOTF?
Tell an Airman six times? You're yanking me, Major.
As TR said, I tell him once, then remind him if it's not done. After that, it gets ugly. I think the correct method after that is, "grabbing him/her by the stacking swivel".
And as everyone has pointed out, what does a maintenance pogue know about AFSOC and what was going on at the CJSOTF?
He probably heard it from someone, who knows someone, who knows someone, that was there.
Better yet, he probably heard it from one of his buddies, while doing his ACSC via seminar.
Maintenance officers are not known to deploy to the AOR very often, let alone to a place where they would be around enough information to make an "informed" decision such as this.
Were he a true loggie, who was working airlift issues, maybe. But in my time at the CAOC we did not have one maintenance officer on the floor. I can't imagine they did while planning the op at CJSOTF.
LibraryLady
05-28-2009, 15:49
I love words like "deconflict".
Hmm... where DO "they" come up those kind of words? :rolleyes:
Even dictionary.com doesn't have a definition for it... :D
LL
grabbing him/her by the stacking swivel
Holy Hell Monsoon, your dating yourself ! Havent heard that expression in 30 years.
The Reaper
05-28-2009, 17:13
Holy Hell Monsoon, your dating yourself ! Havent heard that expression in 30 years.
Really?
My 14 and 11 year olds know what it is, both literally and figuratively.
TR
Ambush Master
05-28-2009, 17:38
Source is here (http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/news/story_media.asp?id=123127372).
It is my understanding that MAJ Fletcher is using his impressive communication skills to get Foot In Mouth Insertion added as a competitive event. The winner of this contest will get the Pelosi Medal.
What is that they're playing there?? Chock Put?!?!
greenberetTFS
05-28-2009, 18:10
Just shaking my head:rolleyes:
afchic,
I concur totally, but it's what you can expect from a REMF................:rolleyes:
GB TFS :munchin
AngelsSix
05-31-2009, 16:25
How about I tell you once, then remind you once, after that, I'll assume you either don't care or are too stupid to get it, and bring my baseball bat so we can try a different message delivery technique. If I have to tell you six times, one of us is going to be dead or incarcerated.
The CJSOTF had liaisons at the air component command and IIRC, the air component had a liaison at the CJSOTF to coordinate and deconflict missions.
I would not be so quick to point the finger at any specific unit and assess blame for failure to communicate.
At one point in OEF, the US Air Force had killed more SF troops than the Taliban, and almost killed Karzai. I really don't care what a REMF AF maintenance unit commander thinks. I can tell him that six times, in six different ways, but I do not think he will like it, or be mission capable afterwards.
TR
AMEN!! I am getting kind of tired of these maintainers acting like they have a say in some of these issues.
I worked aircraft maintenance in the Navy, and last I heard, the maintenance staff in charge of the aircraft did not even deign to tell the SEAL's how to do anything, it was the other way around.
SIX DIFFERENT WAYS, SIX TIMES? REALLY? You have GOT to be kidding. If the cops did this, every resource we protected would be in jeopardy. What happened to people behaving like they have a brain in their head and thinking for themselves? What happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY??:rolleyes::munchin
AMEN!! I am getting kind of tired of these maintainers acting like they have a say in some of these issues.
The danger of being the quiet professionals.
By staying the gray man it gives people like this reign to make their comments.
Also there is a lot of self validating going on in that article.
I guess service members who preform vital, but inglorious, functions are having ego problems. :boohoo
Sounds like he was trying to play a political game to get promoted to LTC.
From what I've seen in the past, it just may work.
Really?
My 14 and 11 year olds know what it is, both literally and figuratively.
TR
Last good three rifle stack was made with the M1 Garand.
Everything since looks like crap.