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Richard
05-24-2009, 16:40
I know the feeling - I was 33 when I went back to finish my undergraduate studies and 38 when I went to graduate school. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Adventures in Absurdity: A guy goes back to school in his early forties and finds that academia is sometimes just plain weird.

Jay Schalin, Pope Center for Higher Ed Policy, 22 May 2009

I returned to school in my early forties, filled with enthusiasm and driven by the sense of urgency that comes with having one last chance at success in life. Though I was a lifelong bookworm, my first attempts at higher education had failed due to a lack of purpose. After twenty-plus years of wallowing in aimless underemployment, purpose found me. I wanted the good life that comes with having a good job, and it was obvious I wasn’t going to get one without an education.

Although I had recently gained an interest in computers, my initial goal was almost exclusively employment. I figured I could make a quick, year-round sprint to get a two-year degree in 16 months. But after just the first few classes, I knew I wanted more than just a few technical skills and some paper credentials. I wanted the knowledge and the mental training. I even wanted the effort: I actually wanted to battle my way through difficult math problems, spend long hours in the computer lab, and write lengthy papers about the great ideas of Western civilization.

I got the long hours, the two-year technical degree, and more—I had no idea what I was in for the academic world. After a nine-year odyssey through a variety of institutions of higher learning (and various full- and part-time jobs), I obtained an A.A. in information systems from Ocean County College (a two-year community college in New Jersey), a B.S. in computer science from Richard Stockton College (a small public liberal arts school, also in Jersey), and an M.A. in economics from the University of Delaware. In retrospect (and in a whimsical mood), it now seems an adventure worthy of a Ulysses, a Gulliver, a Frodo.

I was isolated more by my conservative outlook than by my age, and sometimes the campus had the feel of a hostile landscape filled with sinister traps and bogeymen. Little tiny people tried to tie me down, powerful giants toyed with me as if I were their plaything, and sirens beckoned with ill intent (Okay, I exaggerate slightly). And always I had to trudge on toward the goal, despite the increasing weight of my endeavors.

And while I spent most of my time as an undergraduate in technical classes, which are by nature insulated from political and cultural trends, I was still subjected on occasion to the standard fare offered by today’s academia: political harassment, blatant left-wing indoctrination, teachers with accents too thick to make themselves understood, acceptance of disruptive behavior and cheating, and so on.

Had I been less experienced, less focused, and less firm in my convictions, I could have fallen prey to the propaganda, bought into the unethical aspects of the system, or worked myself into such a state of resentment that dropping out might have seemed sensible.

Despite my attempts to remain apart from foolishness, on several occasions I forgot myself and spoke up. During a discussion in one of my few humanities classes, called “Ideas of America,” a girl claimed the United States is irredeemably evil because of its past institution of slavery. I objected, reminding her that over a century ago the country had acknowledged slavery’s immorality and put an end to it. And that Anglo-American influence nearly eliminated slavery across the entire globe. The professor, who slanted the reading list to include such representative American thinkers as bell hooks and John Dewey, diplomatically decided to change the subject. I was somewhat grateful, because the girl had become so enraged by my rebuttal that I was forced to consider the need to defend myself physically.

But most of the time, I played it safe. In another humanities class, called “Writing for Many Roles,” the teacher preferred to show his favorite movies rather than lecture, providing us with frequent opportunities to perfect that very practical and in-demand writing function, film criticism. After a viewing of the grotesque, semi-pornographic movie The Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover, I commented that the movie appeared to be a Marxist attack on Christianity. The instructor praised me, incorrectly assuming that I was in agreement with the film’s message. As I was hoping to graduate with a high GPA, I chose not to correct him. (The “A” was already in the bank.)

Yet sometimes forces beyond my control broke through my detached facade. Before a test in my Networking class, a foreign student sitting next to me, with whom I had exchanged pleasantries in the past, whispered, “We help each other.” Having studied for the exam, I didn’t anticipate needing much help, so I ignored him. Halfway through the test, the professor left the room. A short time later, the same student began making noises tapping my chair to get my attention. I continued working on my test. After a few minutes of this, while I was struggling to complete a problem on some scratch paper, he tried to slide my test out from under my elbow. I stopped him, and we had a brief tug-of-war with my test paper, which you better believe I won.

The professor remained out of the room until the end of the test. The offending student, rather than being contrite or embarrassed, was indignant at my refusal. I guess it all depends on what your definition of “Networking” is.

I also took a class in Artificial Intelligence in which two students sat in the front of the room and carried on a loud personal conversation while the teacher ignored them and droned away at the blackboard. Many of the class could not hear the lecture because of these two buffoons, but nobody attempted to shut them up until one day when I could no longer contain myself. The professor ignored my protest and also the subsequent shouting match, which continued outside the building after the class. I would have settled for some ordinary human intelligence in this case.

The last two incidents highlight a key problem in today’s academia. There is a heavy emphasis on student evaluations of professors, which does little to limit the most egregious flaunting of improper political and ethical conduct by faculty members but encourages instructors to drop standards to curry favor with the failing or disorderly students likely to cause them trouble in their reviews. I knew one teacher at Ocean City College who bragged privately of never, in fifteen years, giving a failing grade to students who completed the class.

(cont'd)

http://www.popecenter.org/clarion_call/article.html?id=2176

nmap
05-24-2009, 17:33
Nice article.

I was reading a piece by Gerald Celente - he predicts that colleges and higher education will crash (in terms of size and number of students). Upon reflection, the costs of higher education to both the students and the various levels of government, may exceed the benefits. Situations such as the OP describes may increase the likelihood of such a scenario.

echoes
05-24-2009, 17:52
Situations such as the OP describes may increase the likelihood of such a scenario.

Whoops, way over my head...

Holly

mojaveman
05-24-2009, 17:59
Interesting read.

Sounds a lot like what I went through in college. I wasn't as nice as Jay Schalin though. I didn't realize how consertative I had become in my outlook on life after spending a half dozen years in the Army.

One day the Gay and Lesbian Student Union decided to demonstrate against the U.S. Military presence on campus. They joined hands in an enormous circle around the building that housed the Army ROTC offices. They loudly told anyone approaching that if they tried to breach their formation they would be charged with a misdeameanor battery. I was outraged. I wanted to tell them that the only reason they were able to demonstrate in a free country was because of an ammendment to the Constitution that granted them that right. A freedom that would not exist if we did not have a military to defend our Constitution. I bit my lip though and went to the campus cafeteria and drank a few beers with some of my conservative peers.

I also despise long haired liberal professors who have never really been anywhere yet consider themselves experts on World affairs. I had one instructor who gleefully boasted that he was a flag burner as a young student in the 60s.

Looking back on the experience I guess I kind of miss college in some ways.

Puertoland
05-24-2009, 18:35
My last English class left me with the same amount of knowledge I had going into it. I was extremely disappointed (not with my grades which were great) but because the Professor had made a habit of speaking against Christians (not religion, just Christians) and also had the habit of talking down on Republicans. He treated the classroom as a personal forum for his beliefs and opinions, and not the subject which we were to learn.

The times where his rants went a bit too far, another student and I spoke out against the instructor, he simply said that we misconstrued his words and were taking things too personally (she shed a few a tears). Only thing I ever learned in that class was the improper use of a semi colon.

A few other Professors definitely have a tendency to allow students to voice leftist opinions, while shutting out those with conservative beliefs, but thankfully not to the extent I had previously encountered.

The worst part is that so many students look up to their instructors, and believe everything they say to be true.

Pete S
05-24-2009, 19:00
Nice article.

I was reading a piece by Gerald Celente - he predicts that colleges and higher education will crash (in terms of size and number of students).

I agree.

Higher education is now looked at as required for having any type of decent career.
As well as the people who believe it should be mandatory.

Here in Washington state we have a program called Running Start.
It allows students still in high school to take college credits rather then high school classes.
They are also given both credit for high school and college, so it is common for a student to get their high school diploma at the same time as their AA degree.
While an amazing opportunity for the student, what does this say about the quality of education they are getting at high school?

The way this country is headed I see the Associates degree being a required piece of education, more so then it already is.
It will take the place of a high school diploma in the scheme of education.

College shouldn't be a place for an individual to figure out what to do with their life, or who they are.
The sorority/ fraternity system is the complete opposite to what the purpose of education should be.
Now colleges are a place to party on the dime of your parents.
It should be a place of education alone.

nmap
05-24-2009, 19:55
While an amazing opportunity for the student, what does this say about the quality of education they are getting at high school?


In many instances (but, of course, not all), it appears that high school serves as a warehouse for teenagers rather than an educational institution. This tends to fill college classes with unprepared students, which in turn contributes to both grade inflation and a general reduction of standards.

College shouldn't be a place for an individual to figure out what to do with their life, or who they are.

But if we look back - before WWII and the programs that encouraged returning veterans to attend college, that's about what it was. College provided an intellectual base and a general education for the sons and daughters of the upper-middle and upper classes. It was not really aimed at credentialing as is now the case. You may recall the term "gentleman's C", which suggested a student could loaf through class and get a mediocre but passing grade. A two-point-something GPA was completely acceptable 50 years ago. Now, the expectation is closer to four-point-oh. Be assured, the standards have not improved - sometime, take a look at Campbell and Stanley's chapter on experimental designs. The language is powerful, complex, and solid. It is remarkably different from present text books.


It should be a place of education alone.

Perhaps...but therein lies quite a debate. You may sometimes see references to the "core curriculum" - courses that all undergraduates in a college or university are required to take in order to provide them with a "well rounded" education. The faculty and administration have vigorous debates about which courses to include in the core curriculum.

Should there be a U.S. History course? It might be good for building citizens, but it isn't a salable commodity in most instances. And how about English literature? Again, such a course may provide an intellectual foundation of some sort - but it is questionable whether the course improves the writing one encounters in most jobs. Even among the sciences, one must ask how often the majority of people use calculus or modern physics.

On the other side of the coin, the major is packed with ever more courses. One might be forgiven for asking why. In my own case, I got an engineering degree, and subsequently a civil service job as a mechanical engineer. In the 3 1/2 years I was in the job, I never used any of the engineering material I had learned. Not once. Not a single heat transfer problem. No calculus. No modern physics. So...was my education really necessary to fulfill the job requirements? I wonder.

Rhetorical question: What do we want when we ask for education? Preparation for a job? Introduction to some of the key concepts of our culture and civilization? Learning how to function as a self-directed learner? A little of each? All of the above - or none? (By the way, it appears no one has found a universally satisfactory answer so far.)

The problem lies in the cost, both in terms of money and time. If the colleges teach a wide span of courses, many are simply not salable. For example, finding employment for someone with an undergraduate degree in English might be problematic. But what of the more challenging options - engineering, math, and physics, for example?

I continue to wonder about the global labor market. If an employer can hire well qualified people in another country for a fraction of what a person in the U.S. with similar qualifications might receive, why should they choose the more expensive option? This could easily lead to lower U.S. wages among the college educated - thus implying a cohort of students heavily burdened with debt, and for whom there are few chances for the income they expected. That trend troubles me. It underlies my suspicion that higher education may be every bit as much a bubble as Florida condominiums were.

frostfire
05-24-2009, 20:27
Three degrees and counting here. I can relate to the author. I also stayed in three fraternity houses in my undergrad years and often wondered what to make of the supposedly future leaders, engineers etc.

Nevertheless, I am grateful for one political science class where I got my first impression of the profound nature of democracy in U.S. The professor, a veteran, told us "I may disagree with you, but I am willing to die for your freedom."


The way this country is headed I see the Associates degree being a required piece of education, more so then it already is.
It will take the place of a high school diploma in the scheme of education.

I think that already takes place. Today's master degree is yesterday's baccalaureate. I am observing this trend in health care so it may not apply in other fields, but physical therapy has gone to doctorate program, as well as nursing. Everybody wants a piece of the pie, I suppose.



On the other side of the coin, the major is packed with ever more courses. One might be forgiven for asking why. In my own case, I got an engineering degree, and subsequently a civil service job as a mechanical engineer. In the 3 1/2 years I was in the job, I never used any of the engineering material I had learned. Not once. Not a single heat transfer problem. No calculus. No modern physics. So...was my education really necessary to fulfill the job requirements? I wonder.

I, too, worked once as an environmental engineer where I did not apply a single mass balance, or plant design knowledge.

nmap, my first boss told me they seeked my chemical engineering degree as sort of rite-of-passage. The company will still train newgrad engineers in the specific trades as it is impossible to learn everything in engineering school. It is not extremely difficult training, any high school grad with commitment to learn can do it. However, having that degree demonstrates (at least in their view) that one is capable of setting a goal and navigating through obstacles to achieve it. It also shows one as having the aptitude to learn by having basic understanding of the particular field.

Surf n Turf
05-25-2009, 18:03
I know the feeling - I was 33 when I went back to finish my undergraduate studies and 38 when I went to graduate school. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

In my own case, I got an engineering degree, and subsequently a civil service job as a mechanical engineer. In the 3 1/2 years I was in the job, I never used any of the engineering material I had learned. Not once. Not a single heat transfer problem. No calculus. No modern physics. So...was my education really necessary to fulfill the job requirements? I wonder.

I took Richards route originally (younger age / different era) (Richard is a youn’un :D ), but when Sputnik went up, I ended up with an AS (Junior College) right out of high school. Then went into the Service. After some military time, back to school. What a shock, society had changed. I was the old man, and everywhere on campus discussions were political, end the war, burn your draft card, etc. etc.. I shut my mouth, stayed drunk on weekends, and ended up, with Graduate degrees in Engineering, but like nmap, NEVER used any of my education in several career paths after school. My chosen education was not necessary.



Rhetorical question: What do we want when we ask for education? Preparation for a job? Introduction to some of the key concepts of our culture and civilization? Learning how to function as a self-directed learner? A little of each? All of the above - or none? (By the way, it appears no one has found a universally satisfactory answer so far.)

From a military perspective, it looks as if they are coming to terms with specific education facilities for “specialties”. I understand that The College of International Security Affairs, The Industrial College of the Armed Forces, The Information Resources Management College, The National Defense Intelligence College, the Servicemembers Opportunity Colleges (SOC) are now providing the specific education “missing” from the generalist / engineering education of the past.

SnT