View Full Version : Explorer Scouts Subdue Disgruntled Iraq Veteran
Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
IMPERIAL, Calif. Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.
The responding officers eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots BAM! BAM! fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.
United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up! screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=1&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065 :munchin
DinDinA-2
05-14-2009, 22:35
nytimes, huh...not surprised.
I just don't understand where this stigma evolved from. Is it purely an ignorant liberal creation, or have there been actual incidents? I have specifically looked for disgruntled Iraq veterans committing crimes, and all I find are links to the DHS report, this article, and the videos that were discussed here previously about how to handle veterans in the classroom. I'd like to know the thoughts of others on this board. I respect the opinions here. Thanks.
More propaganda from the 4th branch of government. They're really going out of their way to demoralize the military and veterans. What's the agenda? Divide and conquer? :confused:
Did you all even read the article or are you just posting in response to the line highlighted in red in the first post?
I did read the entire article, and thanks for attempting to condescend. I question the usage of an Iraq war veteran in the scenario. Just as I question the DHS report appearing to villify returning servicemembers. I also question usage of veterans in training videos at colleges, where they are portrayed as angry and stupid. Heck, why not throw in the NYT articles that mention the 121 "murders" committed by returning soldiers, some of which included vehicle accidents, and do not even attempt to mention that it is well below the per capita murder rate for the rest of the population.
Did you have anything to contribute, Caveman?
Did you all even read the article or are you just posting in response to the line highlighted in red in the first post?
Did you read the line highlighted in red or are you just kneejerk reacting to our posts?
Now explain to us why they used a disgrunted Iraq war veteran in his little fort as the target instead of a terrorist or illegal type situation?
The below is from the story :
"The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence —"
Oh, wait, because to the US Government vets are the terrorists and a safe PC target for training.
None of us have an issue with the Explorers program or training - just the target.
Red Flag 1
05-15-2009, 06:31
Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
IMPERIAL, Calif. Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.
The responding officers eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots BAM! BAM! fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.
United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up! screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=1&partner=MYWAY&ei=5065 :munchin
Left coast training and MSM at their best. A few years ago it would have been a postal worker. Perhaps we should look into the USPS public relations model.
My $.02.
RF 1
The Reaper
05-15-2009, 06:56
I find it ironic that the NYT would have issues with the stereotyping of an Arab as a role player, but not a veteran, who would have fought for their right to publish their screed.
TR
This is insulting on at least 2 counts. Not only do you have the NY Times directing fire at Vet's, the Main Tin Foil (Infowars) web news is claiming the 'Boy Scouts Train to Become Homeland Gestapo'.
Unbelievable.
Team Sergeant
05-15-2009, 09:48
Parting shots from a shitty newspaper, people and owners.
Very soon their headlines will read: "We're out of business!"
It would be a shame for us all to overlook what the Explorers are doing because of one sentence, disgraceful though it may be.
It would be a shame for us all to overlook what the Explorers are doing because of one sentence, disgraceful though it may be.
Did anyone of us here badmouth the Scouts?
The Explorer Scouts were executing a program given to them.
We are commenting on the program that set up their exercise.
Caveman - since the program is for them to potentially help with a terrorist or illegal problem why didn't the program have them go after a terrorist or illegal?
Oh, wait - it did.:mad:
Did you read the line highlighted in red or are you just kneejerk reacting to our posts?
Now explain to us why they used a disgrunted Iraq war veteran in his little fort as the target instead of a terrorist or illegal type situation?
The below is from the story :
"The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence "
Oh, wait, because to the US Government vets are the terrorists and a safe PC target for training.
None of us have an issue with the Explorers program or training - just the target.
Caveman
You still have not answered Petes Question!!!!!!!!:munchin
I find it ironic that the NYT would have issues with the stereotyping of an Arab as a role player, but not a veteran, who would have fought for their right to publish their screed.
FWIW, I agree. It was the New York Times that beat the drum against profiling in the 1990s. An example is here (http://www.nytimes.com/1999/04/09/nyregion/police-profiling-debate-hinges-on-issue-of-experience-vs-bias.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all&pagewanted=print). And in support of Mizzou's comment, note how the 1999 article questions the statistical foundation for racial profiling. Where is the due diligence for this latest iteration of profiling? Now, when veterans are the ones being profiled the practice is suddenly not only okay, but approved.
This is insulting on at least 2 counts. Not only do you have the NY Times directing fire at Vet's, the Main Tin Foil (Infowars) web news is claiming the 'Boy Scouts Train to Become Homeland Gestapo'.
Unbelievable.
The article fails to place adequately the events in this article in a broader context and to address concretely relevant questions including: How are most Explorers trained? What are the debates over these methods in the scouting community? How have Explorer programs changed peoples' lives for the better?
For these and other lapses, it is clear to me that an attack on the Explorers was clearly the main intent of this article, as demonstrated by the Editors' selections of 'best' online reader feedback, here (http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?s=4).
I just don't understand where this stigma evolved from. Is it purely an ignorant liberal creation, or have there been actual incidents?
Mizzou, IMO, the depiction of OIF veterans is a continuation of the shameful depiction of Vietnam War veterans that was commonplace in American mass popular culture from the 1970s through the 1990s. The veteran as potential psychotic has transformed into the veteran as potential psychotic terrorist.
I find it ironic that the NYT would have issues with the stereotyping of an Arab as a role player, but not a veteran, who would have fought for their right to publish their screed.
TR
Very well said, Sir!
Hope all Veterans know that this little civilian and my family, see through this type of garbage, and are outraged by its insinuation!
Said it before, Don't F**K with Our Veterans!!!:mad:
Holly--->off to punch some bags now...
thebaffler
05-16-2009, 08:59
Anybody else find it bizarre that 14 year-olds are being trained in SWAT tactics? The article states that this organization seeks to "prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters". Isn't that the job of the police academy? I can see maybe CPR, but what business do children have learning this stuff if they're years away from even being able to:
a) legally purchase a handgun
and
b) become a public servant
Oh, and the angle about the deranged gunman being an Iraq vet is just fantastic.
Anybody else find it bizarre that 14 year-olds are being trained in SWAT tactics? The article states that this organization seeks to "prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters". Isn't that the job of the police academy? I can see maybe CPR, but what business do children have learning this stuff if they're years away from even being able to:
a) legally purchase a handgun
and
b) become a public servant
Oh, and the angle about the deranged gunman being an Iraq vet is just fantastic.
Yes, they should be playing sports, or learning traditional boy scout subjects.
It is articles like this one that makes Vets disgruntle.
Every now and then, the media tries to draw comparison with the Viet-Nam war. Only comparison that I actually see that is unique with that war compared to others is the tactics employed by the anti-US/War/Military group in creating a culture of defeat and painting American Military as cowards, derange, psychopathic, etc, etc. Maybe even the worse part of it, it seems to work for some people. I guess it proves, those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. The slanders and lies to day about our men and women who serve are a prime example.
I like to post this link, it is about the slanders and lies used during the Viet-Nam war............. and they worked.
http://www.25thaviation.org/johnkerry/id27.htm
Anybody else find it bizarre that 14 year-olds are being trained in SWAT tactics? The article states that this organization seeks to "prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters". Isn't that the job of the police academy? I can see maybe CPR, but what business do children have learning this stuff if they're years away from even being able to:
a) legally purchase a handgun
and
b) become a public servant
Oh, and the angle about the deranged gunman being an Iraq vet is just fantastic.
The Explores have always had Post focused on certain public service activities like (Police Post/Fire Post/etc...) I remember a Police Post in Ky when I was a kid. I preferred a regular Scout Troop vice Explores since we covered a variety of things instead of one orientation.
greenberetTFS
05-16-2009, 15:12
Uncle.
caveman,
Never mind "Uncle".....:rolleyes: Simply answer Pete's question.......;)
GB TFS :munchin
The Reaper
05-16-2009, 15:26
How about we use a deranged Iraqi vet, but he is from the other side.
Is that okay, or will CAIR care?
TR
Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on the differences between the programs before jumping to conclusions:
www.scouting.org
www.learningforlife.org/exploring/
Anybody else find it bizarre that 14 year-olds are being trained in SWAT tactics? The article states that this organization seeks to "prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters". Isn't that the job of the police academy? I can see maybe CPR, but what business do children have learning this stuff if they're years away from even being able to:
a) legally purchase a handgun
and
b) become a public servant
Sorry to keep you gentlemen waiting. I was [insert bullshit excuse involving the heat, optempo, and dust storms here]. :p
Now explain to us why they used a disgrunted Iraq war veteran in his little fort as the target instead of a terrorist or illegal type situation?
I can't explain it. The use of a disgruntled Iraq war vetran is unconscionable. We should be teaching our children to respect and be grateful of and for our nation's servicemen and women. I would suspect the use of that particular scenario in the program's curriculum was an attempt to add a bit of variety which failed miserably in the good taste and respect department.
None of us have an issue with the Explorers program or training - just the target.
This was where I misunderstood the direction of the thread.
I'll admit, when I first read the whole article I thought it was a great program that maybe was a bit out of line. I was honestly ready to forgive the little slight towards veterans because of all the good they do with the kids. Then I thought about all my friends. The ones I'll never see again and the many more who are forever changed.
Forgive me if I spoke before I'd thought it out all the way.