USA world standing

[jw74]

After finishing my degree at a liberal school last Dec, and after an interminable election news cycle, and now watching BHO apologize for America, I find myself getting angry at the unAmerican sentiment that runs rampant. Speaking only for myself, it would appear after watching the news or listening to the radio that the US is failing and the days of American influence are over. The media and professional hand wringers makes it seem that we exist at China's pleasure and only when we walk lock step with the EU and the UN.

I offer the following post because it reminded me of what a juggernaut power house our country is and can be. This is the list from IMF of GDP ranking. I think its worth noting that the only entity with a larger economy than the US is the combination of countries making up the EU. I think it is also interesting that New Jersey has a higher GDP than the Liberal mecca: Sweden.

source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_nomin al_GDP#2005

IMF list
Overall Rank Rank by country/Rank by US State GDP (millions)
- — World 54,311,608
- — European Union 16,905,620
- 1 United States of America 13,843,825
1 2 Japan 4,383,762
2 3 Germany 3,322,147
3 4 People's Republic of China (mainland only) 3,250,827
4 5 United Kingdom 2,772,570
5 6 France 2,560,255
6 7 Italy 2,104,666
7 1 California 1,812,968
8 8 Spain 1,438,959
9 9 Canada 1,432,140
10 10 Brazil 1,313,590
11 11 Russia 1,289,582
12 2 Texas 1,141,965
13 3 New York 1,103,024
14 12 India 1,098,945
15 13 South Korea 957,053
16 14 Australia 908,826
17 15 Mexico 893,365
18 16 Netherlands 768,704
19 4 Florida 734,519
20 17 Turkey 663,419
21 5 Illinois 609,570
22 6 Pennsylvania 531,110
23 7 Ohio 466,309
24 8 New Jersey 465,484
25 18 Sweden 458,966

[ZonieDiver]

I used this information in my HS economics class the other night to "overcome" my Government-teaching colleague's "Inconvenient Truth"-driven statement to her students that the U.S. was, in effect, an "energy pig" since we used an amount of energy out of line with our 5% or so of the world's population. I said that since we produce 1/4 of the world's goods and services, are we not entitled to at least 1/4 of the energy? ;)

[Richard]

FWIW - the gross numbers may be changing, but the % rankings and positions of the top 25 will change little. It's the world we live in...and it's who we are.

Remember - this list is just $$ influence - and doesn't take into account our powerful political, philosophical, cultural, and scientific influences on the world.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[Scimitar]

jw74,

I'm going to play the devils advocate here if that's ok.

Correct me if I'm wrong but essentially you're frustrated with the US apologizing for itself (ourselves). But want to make the point that we are still THE economic power house.

Although there is correlation between economic power and political power, if we start saying, "We big, you small, you do what we say" it's tantamount to slavery, and the peasants will revolt.

I feel sametimes that we look like the rich 8 year old kid at the new school, who stamps his feet and yells "You should like me and do what I say cos I'm rich!!"

I get the vague felling that other countries having to bend their wills to meet ours just so they can get a piece of the money pie, well...it just pisses them off.

The parable of the prodigal son comes to mind; he had friends while he was rich and none after he became poor.

Now there has to be a flaw to comparing international diplomacy to school yard friendships...but hey, not claming to have the answers here.

One observation having lived overseas a lot is...as a country we really haven’t won the hearts and minds of our allies at the grass routs level well at all.

Not saying this is bad or good or even possible. It's just an (obvious) observation. (I could be wrong; perhaps the minority who hate us are just more vocal?)

Should have we gone into Iraq isn’t really the question. The question is could we have better played the world media, and therefore the hearts and minds of the public of the western world. Should we even have to?

Is it foolish to think that we can just do what ever is right and expect the populations of our post modern allies (and even our own) to agree with us.

Perhaps winning the media battle was never possible, so we never bothered; perhaps we do have a subliminal colonist world view and don't even realize it. Is there really anything wrong with this?

All I know is this; a lot of people don't like us any more. Should we care? Does it really matter? I don't know. But what I do want to know is this.

Did our powers that be have a good reason for not having tried harder to project our international image in a better light?

If it happens that they said, "We shouldn't have to care what they think", and "we are right, and that's all that matters". Well that's pretty ethnocentric, short sighted, and naive don't you think.

I am sure there are others with letters and bits of paper and such who understand this stuff better then I and can answer these questions.

I'll finish with this, if the art of diplomacy really is saying “good doggy - till you can reach that big rock over there and hit him over the head”, what’s wrong with a bit of humility.

If we achieve our diplomatic goals, thru bribery, coercion, or humility; who cares we still achieve the goal...right?

S

[jw74]

jw74,

I'm going to play the devils advocate here if that's ok.


S

You make a lot of points worth considering, and I understand you are playing devil's advocate, however... It pleases me that my country is mighty. I do not wish it were weaker merely so less fortunate/prudent/adventurous peoples feel better about their plight.

I also understand that GDP is not the whole story. But it is one measure of economic health and when so many things in the media create an image of our nation as though it is teetering on the abyss (my perspective), it makes me proud that my country produces so much despite temporary questionable leadership.

[incarcerated]

The GDP figures show that we’re the lead economy in the global system. We are also number 12 in the world in GDP per capita (Luxembourg is #1), so I’m thinking that we may have more humility than we give ourselves credit for. And as King of the Hill, pretty much everyone else is going to want to cut us down to size.
In international relations, we don’t have friends. We have interests.
Whether nations cooperate or not, it is a competition. The relationships between nations turn on power and leverage, not affection. It is business.
BTW, might get ready to scrub Sweden from the number 18 position: they had a bad week. Swedish bank exposure from shaky loans to former Soviet Baltic states equals about a third of Sweden’s GDP.

[Pete]

.....All I know is this; a lot people don't like us any more. Should we care? Does it really matter? I don't know. .....

A lot of countries don't like us because they don't have to and it's cool to kick sand in the big guys face without getting beat up.

But a lot of those same 2nd rate and third world countries have no problem sticking their hands out and taking our money and aid.

Maybe we should be more like Cable TV - Pay for View - and go with "Pay for Support".