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Sacamuelas
06-28-2004, 11:43
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/26/baby.hostage.ap/index.html

I think I found a new candidate for NDD to try out his new Harsey fightin' knife. What a coward...

and thanks to all the hooplah over "police brutality",etc, it appears the cops used bean bags before bullets to try and stop this whack job from STABBING AN INFANT.

This story has my blood boiling... on many different levels:mad:
illegal immigrant
cowardly violence against an innocent child
nonlethal means were tried AFTER he started stabbing the kid

I say stick his ass in a GITMO style prison as he is NOT an American citizen.

Team Sergeant
06-28-2004, 12:00
Classic example of the “man” putting down the “undocumented alien.”

I see him suing the local PD for using one too many bean bags and winning.
He looks as he may be suffering from PTSRGS. (post traumatic swimming the Rio Grande syndrome)
IMO we should settle out of court for a few million and offer him a position with the Arizona State Government, free health care, welfare, a 401k and free education.
My .02

TS

Sacamuelas
06-28-2004, 13:17
Did Roguish lawyer take over your brain??? HaHa You sound like a plaintiff's attorney. :p Unfortunatlely, you are probably right in your tongue-in-cheek response Team Sergeant.

If it was in L.A., California the guy was just have been made a millionaire and would be martyr'ed in a TV movie. LOL

I know, I shouldn't let this kind of garbage fire me up... but sometimes it feels really good to rant a little.

NousDefionsDoc
06-28-2004, 18:44
Hang the baby stabber!

FREE MARTHA NOW!

Guy
06-28-2004, 19:53
A snipers dream!;)

colt1911fan
06-29-2004, 02:05
Lethal force would certainly have been justified by my departments policy. Probably in such a situation would be forced to aim for the head. Most times I could probably pull off such a shot, but I have never had to under such pressure. To me the head shot represents the best of bad alternatives. Ain't no way I would let him stab a baby. And the less lethal at my disposal is pepper spray. Not real damn good for a baby's lungs and would not really be an option under our policy.(we can't spray in the general area of children that young)

Good news is he will probably be popular in prison.

NousDefionsDoc
06-29-2004, 08:32
To me the head shot represents the best of bad alternatives.

Now see Johnny Law, that's entirely the wrong attitude. You need to accentuate the positive. How many people you have contact with on a given day give you a legitimate reason to shoot them in the face (legitimate in the eyes of society)? Not how many need it (the latter group is huge), but give you a reason that society will accept?

If you want to enjoy a relatively stress free existence, you need to learn to take advantage of life's little gifts.

Think of it not as a problem to be solved, but rather an opportunity to demonstrate your marksmanship while saving the taxpayer the added burden of a trial. Attitude is everything.
:D

Guy
06-29-2004, 09:03
NDD...LMAO!:D

Sacamuelas
06-29-2004, 09:12
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Think of it not as a problem to be solved, but rather an opportunity to demonstrate your marksmanship while saving the taxpayer the added burden of a trial. Attitude is everything.
:D
:lifter LOL

Sacamuelas
06-29-2004, 10:51
Here is what I would like to see done to this scum. NOt quite the bam-bam from the long gun.. but martyr makin' to say the least. :lifter

Smokin Joe
06-29-2004, 14:50
This is a perfect example of why every compitent officer should have a sniper rifle in there trunk.

Jawbreaker,

Here is something that will make you feel a little better. It happened last year when I was visiting the area.

Police Shoot Man Holding Baby (http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2001/dec/21/122110208.html)

Sacamuelas
06-29-2004, 15:04
Thanks Joe. :cool:

But why did you give NDD so much anti-cop ammo to use. You KNOW he is a cop hater... (yeah, yeah, I know your brother is a cop NDD)

...another officer standing across the street fired a single shot from an assault rifle that struck Violett in the head, McPartland said.
"It was a glancing blow," McPartland said. "The bullet didn't penetrate the skull, probably because of the angle."
errr... I mean he "almost" missed. haha

Team Sergeant... this is why I didn't like your idea of Police being trained to employ helicopters and .50 cal rifles to stop car chases. I can just read the newspaper quotes now...

"Well, the semi truck carrying the 200,000 gallons of gasoline was hit because it was on the same side of the interstate as the fleeing vehicle. It was the angle of the shot that caused this to occur... the shoot was good even though the bad guy drove away uncontested after the explosion and mass casualties were caused. " LOL

Smokin Joe
06-30-2004, 14:12
Originally posted by Sacamuelas
Thanks Joe. :cool:

But why did you give NDD so much anti-cop ammo to use. You KNOW he is a cop hater... (yeah, yeah, I know your brother is a cop NDD)


errr... I mean he "almost" missed. haha

Team Sergeant... this is why I didn't like your idea of Police being trained to employ helicopters and .50 cal rifles to stop car chases. I can just read the newspaper quotes now...

"Well, the semi truck carrying the 200,000 gallons of gasoline was hit because it was on the same side of the interstate as the fleeing vehicle. It was the angle of the shot that caused this to occur... the shoot was good even though the bad guy drove away uncontested after the explosion and mass casualties were caused. " LOL

What they fail to mention in the artical is that the shot was at about 25 yards off hand using an aimpoint scope. Granted the officer should have killed the guy but the 5.56 ammo they were using didn't fully penetrate the skull. Not the shooters fault it was a single well aimed shot that should have provided a CNS kill but the ammo failed to penetrate and glanced off. I don't know how but it did.

2 weeks later they dumped a guy with the same shot except they used a standard .308 police sniper round....that guy didn't make it.

Sacamuelas
06-30-2004, 14:22
I was just funnin' Joe. I don't doubt the guy made a good shot. :cool:

NousDefionsDoc
06-30-2004, 16:24
Originally posted by Smokin Joe
What they fail to mention in the artical is that the shot was at about 25 yards off hand using an aimpoint scope. Granted the officer should have killed the guy but the 5.56 ammo they were using didn't fully penetrate the skull. Not the shooters fault it was a single well aimed shot that should have provided a CNS kill but the ammo failed to penetrate and glanced off. I don't know how but it did.

2 weeks later they dumped a guy with the same shot except they used a standard .308 police sniper round....that guy didn't make it.

The ammo? :munchin

I don't hate cops, I am just for a firm separation of LEO and military - in every aspect.

Team Sergeant
06-30-2004, 18:37
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I don't hate cops, I am just for a firm separation of LEO and military - in every aspect.

I totally agree.

I have and will continue to teach LEO's to place lead on tgt, but will not teach tactics, techniques or procedures.

TS

Smokin Joe
07-02-2004, 12:47
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
The ammo? :munchin

I don't hate cops, I am just for a firm separation of LEO and military - in every aspect.

That is what I was told. But it was totally unofficial. IIRC it was a 55 gr frangible round. However I wouldn't and won't swear buy that info.

colt1911fan
07-03-2004, 02:42
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
I totally agree.

I have and will continue to teach LEO's to place lead on tgt, but will not teach tactics, techniques or procedures.

TS

I too agree there does need to be a firm divisions between police work and soldiering. But what can be shared then? In a rural area we don't have alot of chances for training, for us reserves it is even more of a problem. So we do have to look to gain as much knowledge as we can. What can we learn from the military?

Shooting is a simple enough skill, and one we don't use all that much. Especially if we use our other tools properly(persuasion, etc.). Not saying it is not important to shoot well and be serious about it, but that it is only one tool in the tool box. A good cop has to have a lot of tools at his disposal. What can those of us out here in the hinterlands learn? I am asking respectfully, to try and gain knowledge and wisdom.

The Reaper
07-03-2004, 08:22
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
I totally agree.

I have and will continue to teach LEO's to place lead on tgt, but will not teach tactics, techniques or procedures.

TS

Concur.

Teaching marksmanship is a good thing.

American Soldiers teaching LEOs to assault and kill other Americans is a bad idea.

We have heavily armed SWAT teams in towns of less than 10,000 people, with fewer full time officers than an ODA, and multiple teams in counties and municipalities.

When the only tool that you have is a hammer, all problems tend to look like nails. When you have a tactical unit, it is always one of the early options to be considered.

Posse Comitatus exists for a good reason, and I would consider adding teaching TTP to that list.

Just my .02.

TR