View Full Version : Soldiers call for Army to drop berets
I guess we all don't think the same.. Although, I for one would like an alternative for outside the wire,, say boonie or ????,, how about a doo-rag with "Army Strong" on the top??
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=62117
Soldiers call for Army to drop berets, By Ashley Rowland, Stars and Stripes, Pacific edition, Sunday, April 19, 2009
SEOUL — They’re hot, sweaty and do nothing to keep the sun out of your eyes during a long formation.
Those are just a few of the reasons the Army should stop making soldiers wear wool berets outdoors, a group of delegates said Friday at the 8th Army’s annual Army Family Action Plan conference.
"Everyone is affected by the beret," said Sgt. Brad Stuckey, spokesman for a group that studied family-support issues. "This is an issue that your average soldier feels very strongly about."
The group recommended that soldiers be required to wear lighter, cotton-nylon blend patrol caps instead. They block the sun, absorb sweat and are somewhat water resistant, Stuckey said.
Soldiers had a list of complaints about the black beret. Among them:
It doesn’t match the Army Combat Uniform, which has no black in its pattern.
It has to be shaved, washed and dried on a lampshade or hat stand to hold its shape.
It can cost nearly twice as much as a patrol cap, and there’s no standard way to wear it.
"You have seven people wearing it seven different ways," said Chief Warrant Officer 2 Jon Butler.
He said people have complained about the beret since it became part of the uniform in 2001.
"It’s been brought up a lot, but it’s consistently shot down," he said. "If it’s an issue enough to keep being brought up, then there’s definitely something behind it."
8th Army commander Lt. Gen. Joseph Fil said at the end of the conference that all of the ideas presented were good ones.
"We’re going to have to think about the one on the beret," he said. "That’s a hard sell."
Maybe this should be in the Comedy Zone???
Ret10Echo
04-20-2009, 10:54
:D K-pots are pretty maintenance free.....little spray paint now and then. :D
(Retired guys can make those sort of suggestions)
:D K-pots are pretty maintenance free.....little spray paint now and then. :D
(Retired guys can make those sort of suggestions)
K-Pot? Is that like the ancient steel pot, from the Jurassic period?
:D
NousDefionsDoc
04-20-2009, 15:46
It doesn’t match the Army Combat Uniform, which has no black in its pattern.
Well hell, there ya have it. Everything else is just gravy...
MAX TAB.........the ancient steel pot, from the Jurassic period?
The M-1 Steel Helmet was introduced right AFTER the Jurassic period. Ours were issued without the camo cover. And, camo netting was still available at the time. Along with HBT fatigues, U.S. Rifle Caliber .30 M-1, and our head gear was the O.D. Patrol Cap.
Oh Lord I feel so old sometimes.
Red Flag 1
04-20-2009, 15:55
JJ,
Ya just had to use my old USAF rag, didn't ya:D
RF 1
K-pot? Why not a pair of sun glasses and a nicely shaved head!! Now that's a statement..In some cases a way of life... Be Know Do!!!
:cool:
Just want to say, that I will always salute my Heroes, wearing the, "Green Beret!"
For They are Marked, by outstanding Bavery, Courage, and Sacrifice, by Their Green Beret!!!
Holly
Give 'em all to the VA staff now that GEN Shinseki's slithered on over there. :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
Utah Bob
04-20-2009, 17:54
"We’re going to have to think about the one on the beret," he said. "That’s a hard sell."
To who?:p
To who?
The chinese who manufactured them. ;)
richard's $.02 :munchin
Trip_Wire (RIP)
04-20-2009, 21:14
Hell yes! Take the black beret back from the conventional army and give it back to the Rangers. Keep the Green beret for SF and only let qualified paratroopers wear the maroon beret. No berets required to be worn in the field.Optional in garrison and mandatory for class A. :D :munchin
The Reaper
04-20-2009, 21:32
Hell yes! Take the black beret back from the conventional army and give it back to the Rangers. Keep the Green beret for SF and only let qualified paratroopers wear the maroon beret. No berets required to be worn in the field.Optional in garrison and mandatory for class A. :D :munchin
Too late.
No more Class A greens.
Schoomaker did that.
TR
I just think it's poetic justice that everyone had to have a beret and now they are sniveling about it.
Personally I like the old patrol cap and at the time I'd of ratherof worn that in garrison.
AL
and there’s no standard way to wear it
I am confussssed...... What happened to the AR670-1 I always thought it was quite clear and they even have pictures. Guess the new Army kids can not read. Bone would be so proud of me....Gaggggg Gagggg Gagggg:eek:
3–5. Headgear
a. Beret.
(1) General. The beret is the basic headgear for utility uniforms in garrison environments. The beret is not worn in the field, in training environments, or in environments where the wear of the beret is impractical, as determined by the
commander. Additionally, the beret is not worn on deployments unless authorized by the commander. Personnel being transferred from one organization to another may continue to wear the beret and flash of the former unit until they report for duty at the new organization.
(2) Wear. The beret is worn so that the headband (edge binding) is straight across the forehead, 1 inch above the eyebrows. The flash is positioned over the left eye, and the excess material is draped over to the right ear, extending to at least the top of the ear, and no lower than the middle of the ear. Personnel will cut off the ends of the adjusting ribbon and secure the ribbon knot inside the edge binding at the back of the beret. When worn properly, the beret is formed to the shape of the head; therefore, soldiers may not wear hairstyles that cause distortion of the beret. Paragraph
3–5c, below, addresses wear of headgear insignia. Figures 3–1 and 3–4 show wear of the beret. Soldiers wear berets as
indicated below:
(3) Black beret.
(a) Soldiers who are not assigned to units or positions authorized wear of the tan, green, or maroon berets will wear
the black beret. This includes senior and junior ROTC instructors, unless otherwise indicated below.
(b) Soldiers are issued the black beret upon assignment to their first ermanent duty assignment after the completion of initial entry training or officer/warrant officer basic courses. Cadets and officer/warrant officer candidates will not
wear the black beret. Split-option soldiers or soldiers in the simultaneous membership program will wear the black beret only when performing duties with their units, and they will wear the patrol cap with the BDU, as described in
paragraph 3–5b below, when in a cadet or trainee status. Soldiers who have not been issued or who do not wear the black beret will wear the patrol cap with the BDU, as indicated in paragraph 3–5b below. In those cases where beret sustainment levels are not sufficient for turn-in and reissue of unserviceable berets, the commander can authorize the temporary wear of the patrol cap until the beret can be replaced.
(c) The Army flash is the only flash authorized for wear on the black beret, unless authorization for another flash was granted before the implementation of the black beret as the standard Army headgear (for example, Opposing
Forces (OPFOR) elements).
TOMAHAWK9521
04-20-2009, 22:49
It doesn’t match the Army Combat Uniform, which has no black in its pattern.
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There's a news flash. Hey genius, nothing matches the ACU! Well, except fog, gravel, snow storms, and my gray hair. And yet, the powers-that-be chose to adopt those ridiculous gray, POS, polka-dot, velcro pajamas to be the standard/mandatory army uniform. I still cannot understand why the ACU (gray) is being worn in such places as the desert (browns and tans) and the mountains, woods and jungles (greens). Unless all our conflicts are to take place in quarries, smoke-enshrouded cities, or gravel pits, the ACU will never be of any practical/tactical use for ground troops. Anyone wearing ACU's stands out like a beacon in just about every environment.
How is it the Marines, who pride themselves on doing so much with so little, still have a budget for different combat uniforms tailored to the different regional environments, but the Army is on this trip about standardizing everything so everyone looks the same and no environmentally specialized uniforms are allowed?:confused: (Except by SF and the like) If they want one field uniform then go to the damn Multicams. Those actually blend into the various environments.
IMNSHO: ACU's outright suck. :mad: They're about as durable as pajamas. The idea for the mandarin collar was pretty f*cking stupid, IMHO. A bandanna, cravat or shemag work better. Not only is velcro non-tactical but it goes to crap after 2 washes or a couple days in the field, thus making it nearly impossible to keep your cargo pockets closed and their contents secured within. Whoever designed them is an idiot. And whoever approved them is a f*ckstain with absolutely no clue about camouflage, durable fabric nor practical textile designs. My guess is that a bunch chimps in a vacuum at the Pentagon put this uniform into being.
On a lighter note, there's the trick of trying to ascertain certain officers' rank as to whether they're a brigadier, junior warrant, colonel, LTC, or some low-ranking enlisted guy. Obviously, an old-looking soldier won't be mistaken for a SPEC-4 but it's still embarrassing to walk up to a brigadier and not be able to ID his rank without squinting. Warrant officer rank actually looks like part of pixel pattern and I hate apologizing to a young warrant for failing to salute him because I couldn't see his rank.
alright4u
04-21-2009, 03:13
Some good replies here. I was shocked when Shinseki wanted those damn Chinese made black berets, but; that tanker clanker never made any sense to me. Then he wanted to ditch tanks for armor cars. What a joke. He probably made a lot of money with the Stryker deal? What a joke that armor car has been. My pal Lonnie has written many great articles on how worthless the Stryker is.
What was wrong with the old baseball hat? I guess Shinseki saw some foreign armor unit wearing berets, and; he wanted one?
What was wrong with the old baseball hat?
Ahh...the Ballad of the Black Baseball Cap! :rolleyes: IMO - the patrol/BDU caps were the best ever - functional, comfortable, durable, decent looking - which is why they probably got rid of them. :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
greenberetTFS
04-21-2009, 05:34
I guess we all don't think the same.. Although, I for one would like an alternative for outside the wire,, say boonie or ????,, how about a doo-rag with "Army Strong" on the top??
Maybe this should be in the Comedy Zone???
JJ.
I don't think they know what they want....:rolleyes: Now they don't want it, after they stole it's color from the Rangers.......:mad: Screw them, they're mostly legs anyway.......:p
GB TFS :munchin
TOMAHAWK9521
04-21-2009, 08:27
Some good replies here. I was shocked when Shinseki wanted those damn Chinese made black berets, but; that tanker clanker never made any sense to me. Then he wanted to ditch tanks for armor cars. What a joke. He probably made a lot of money with the Stryker deal? What a joke that armor car has been. My pal Lonnie has written many great articles on how worthless the Stryker is.
What was wrong with the old baseball hat? I guess Shinseki saw some foreign armor unit wearing berets, and; he wanted one?
The story I heard was that Shinseki attended the opening of the Special Operations Museum back in 2000. He saw how professional looking all the SF, Airborne, and Ranger representatives looked and got a hard-on for it. Army morale wasn't so great since we were in the final throes of the Clinton administration, so Shinseki says, "I'll give everyone berets to wear and that will make them look and feel professional."
I also heard he had an axe to grind with the Rangers, partly from him being a tanker and, unless I'm mistaken, tankers in other countries the black beret.
alright4u
04-21-2009, 09:30
Tomahawk Thanks. The sharpest SF CPT I met was a WP classmate of his.
The story I heard was that Shinseki attended the opening of the Special Operations Museum back in 2000. He saw how professional looking all the SF, Airborne, and Ranger representatives looked and got a hard-on for it. Army morale wasn't so great since we were in the final throes of the Clinton administration, so Shinseki says, "I'll give everyone berets to wear and that will make them look and feel professional."
I also heard he had an axe to grind with the Rangers, partly from him being a tanker and, unless I'm mistaken, tankers in other countries the black beret.
US tankers in the 60s and 70s wore black berets. My father still has his.
Utah Bob
04-21-2009, 10:51
Some good replies here. I was shocked when Shinseki wanted those damn Chinese made black berets, but; that tanker clanker never made any sense to me. Then he wanted to ditch tanks for armor cars. What a joke. He probably made a lot of money with the Stryker deal? What a joke that armor car has been. My pal Lonnie has written many great articles on how worthless the Stryker is.
What was wrong with the old baseball hat? I guess Shinseki saw some foreign armor unit wearing berets, and; he wanted one?
God I hated those baseball caps!! I have 2 old pics of me with a baseball cap. One in Basic and one with the 1st Cav.
I'm tempted to burn them both (except I was so gorgeous back then) :D:D:eek:
Utah Bob
04-21-2009, 10:52
US tankers in the 60s and 70s wore black berets. My father still has his.
A pic of a friend when he was with the 11ACR. They had berets but I think they were in Europe then and could get away with it.
1978 (http://sassvets.homestead.com/ColDan1978.jpg)
God I hated those baseball caps IMOHO: The absolute worse cap was the "Ridgeway Cap". Its faults are too numerous to mention.
a friend when he was with the 11ACR. They had berets but I think they were in Europe then and could get away with it.
In the mid to late 60s in Viet Nam, the 11th ACR had quite a proficient L.R.R.P. team. These troops adopted the Black Beret.
God I hated those baseball caps!! I have 2 old pics of me with a baseball cap. One in Basic and one with the 1st Cav.
I'm tempted to burn them both (except I was so gorgeous back then) :D:D:eek:
Hmmm. Mine was just fine. Cool, in fact. :cool:
Pat
Utah Bob
04-21-2009, 12:31
Hmmm. Mine was just fine. Cool, in fact. :cool:
Pat
Good Lord! I'm havin flashbacks!!:D
TOMAHAWK9521
04-21-2009, 23:17
US tankers in the 60s and 70s wore black berets. My father still has his.
I have an uncle who retired as a full bird tanker and he always gave me hell when I was in 2/75 in the 80's because we wore the black beret. I believe he knew Shinseki back in the day either as a colleague or junior officer. He felt Shinseki got the shaft when he was forced to retire.
armymom1228
04-22-2009, 00:19
Give 'em all to the VA staff :
Richard's $.02 :munchin
OH GOOD GOD NO!!!!!!!! :eek::eek: Please...
Fiercely Loyal
04-22-2009, 01:04
From a nasty dirty leg guard soldier's point of view.
True, 12 people in my unit will wear it 12 different ways.
True, patrol caps work better.
True, they complain like crazy about prep time for proper wear and appearance.
INHO:
I would like to see them go away from conventional forces. It is more embarrassing to see our "chef hat" on the front page of the local newspaper for a departure ceremony than one may imagine.
Patrol caps work great, as do boonies. Please let us use both if you issue it to us. We have the boonie issued and have been forbidden from wearing them at all. What is the point in giving them out if you can't use it for what it is designed for. Cool to say you have I suppose.
AR 670-1 clearly states the standard however if a BC and his CSM cannot even come close to that standard maybe someone should be thinking about changing things up a bit.
ZonieDiver
04-22-2009, 09:14
Hmmm. Mine was just fine. Cool, in fact. :cool:
Pat
Damn, Pat!
Gig Line crooked. Air Force gloves. Duck bill bend in the baseball cap. At least those fatigue trousers weren't "tailored"!
What the hell kind of outfit were you in back then? :D
Damn, Pat!
Gig Line crooked. Air Force gloves. Duck bill bend in the baseball cap. At least those fatigue trousers weren't "tailored"!
What the hell kind of outfit were you in back then? :D
It was Casual Friday. :p
Pat