Army Recruiter Suicides

[Richard]

Lot of press and concern over this issue around this neck of the woods.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Why Are Army Recruiters Killing Themselves?
Mark Thompson, Time, 2 Apr 2009

When Army Staff Sergeant Amanda Henderson ran into Staff Sergeant Larry Flores in their Texas recruiting station last August, she was shocked by the dark circles under his eyes and his ragged appearance. "Are you O.K.?" she asked the normally squared-away soldier. "Sergeant Henderson, I am just really tired," he replied. "I had such a bad, long week, it was ridiculous." The previous Saturday, Flores' commanders had berated him for poor performance. He had worked every day since from 6:30 a.m. to 10 p.m., trying to persuade the youth of Nacogdoches to wear Army green. "But I'm O.K.," he told her.

No, he wasn't. Later that night, Flores hanged himself in his garage with an extension cord. Henderson and her husband Patrick, both Army recruiters, were stunned. "I'll never forget sitting there at Sergeant Flores' memorial service with my husband and seeing his wife crying," Amanda recalls. "I remember looking over at Patrick and going, 'Why did he do this to her? Why did he do this to his children?' " Patrick didn't say anything, and Amanda now says Flores' suicide "triggered" something in her husband. Six weeks later, Patrick hanged himself with a dog chain in their backyard shed.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are now the longest waged by an all-volunteer force in U.S. history. Even as soldiers rotate back into the field for multiple and extended tours, the Army requires a constant supply of new recruits. But the patriotic fervor that led so many to sign up after 9/11 is now eight years past. That leaves recruiters with perhaps the toughest, if not the most dangerous, job in the Army. Last year alone, the number of recruiters who killed themselves was triple the overall Army rate. Like posttraumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, recruiter suicides are a hidden cost of the nation's wars.

(cont'd) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1889152,00.html?xid=newsletter-weekly

[gagners]

Thanks for the post Richard.

My father was in recruiting for many years and it took a toll back then - and that was a peacetime Army.

I wouldn't trade a year's worth of deployment for a month's worth of recruiting duty. Imagine your career hinging on the LIFE CHOICES of other people. Not to mention an increasingly liberal-it's not my fault-fat kid society.

No thank you.

Prayers out to those that have lost loved ones and to those who continue to introduce the military to America's youth.

[greenberetTFS]

Lot of press and concern over this issue around this neck of the woods.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

Why Are Army Recruiters Killing Themselves?
Mark Thompson, Time, 2 Apr 2009

When Army Staff Sergeant Amanda Henderson ran into Staff Sergeant Larry Flores in their Texas recruiting station last August, she was shocked by the dark circles under his eyes and his ragged appearance. "Are you O.K.?" she asked the normally squared-away soldier. "Sergeant Henderson, I am just really tired," he replied. "I had such a bad, long week, it was ridiculous." The previous Saturday, Flores' commanders had berated him for poor performance. He had worked every day since from 6:30 a.m. to 10 p.m., trying to persuade the youth of Nacogdoches to wear Army green. "But I'm O.K.," he told her.

No, he wasn't. Later that night, Flores hanged himself in his garage with an extension cord. Henderson and her husband Patrick, both Army recruiters, were stunned. "I'll never forget sitting there at Sergeant Flores' memorial service with my husband and seeing his wife crying," Amanda recalls. "I remember looking over at Patrick and going, 'Why did he do this to her? Why did he do this to his children?' " Patrick didn't say anything, and Amanda now says Flores' suicide "triggered" something in her husband. Six weeks later, Patrick hanged himself with a dog chain in their backyard shed.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are now the longest waged by an all-volunteer force in U.S. history. Even as soldiers rotate back into the field for multiple and extended tours, the Army requires a constant supply of new recruits. But the patriotic fervor that led so many to sign up after 9/11 is now eight years past. That leaves recruiters with perhaps the toughest, if not the most dangerous, job in the Army. Last year alone, the number of recruiters who killed themselves was triple the overall Army rate. Like posttraumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, recruiter suicides are a hidden cost of the nation's wars.

(cont'd) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1889152,00.html?xid=newsletter-weekly

Richard,

It's unreal, I share your feelings........RIP,Warriors ................:(

GB TFS

[The Reaper]

Great time to be cutting bonuses, reducing benefits, and stereotyping vets as deranged. .:rolleyes:

RIP, prayers out to the families.

TR

[Saoirse]

A huge tragedy and loss! Rest in peace, Warriors!

I remember when my stepfather was a recruiter back in the 80s. I would constantly hear him complain about the quotas placed on recruiters, the amount of hours spent on kids/parents only to have a huge "NO" at the end of all that work, liberal minded teachers/parents that thwarted his best efforts. He never made any bogus promises to any potential recruits because he believed honesty was the best policy. Looking back, it's no wonder his drinking increased and his surliness got worse! I was his easiest recruit!

[f50lrrp]

My father was a recruiter during the 50s & 60s. I remember, as a child, that he was very moody toward the end of each month being worried about "quotas". I really appreciated it when I spent a year as the SF Recruiter at Fort Ord after my second tour in RVN. The pressures that were placed on me by Bragg were unspeakable.

[uboat509]

I was thinking about this when I was reading another thread where a young recruit was questioning some advice that his recruiter had given him. It was bad advice and everyone immediately declared the recruiter a POS who should be crushed. I was thinking that maybe he was a worthless POS or maybe he was a good guy who has been pushed past his limits by the situation he is in. For every guy I have known who had a positive experience as a recruiter, I have known four or five who had negative experiences. When one one perceives their career/livelihood/ability to feed their families going down the drain, especially when it is not their fault, it may very well push them make choices that one might never have even considered before. Some have chosen suicide others choose to give bad advice to potential recruits. The Army recruiting program has been broken for years and I have yet to see any real effort to fix it.

SFC W

[Firebeef]

In 1984, I was a young, newly promoted, hard chargin SSG. I had a packet in to try out for SF and was awaiting orders to PCS to Ft Bragg (you were reassigned in those days before selection) I was sure my 1SG had recieved the orders to Bragg when I was called in from a field problem at Ft Polk. When I walked in the door I was told I was heading for USAREC, or the US Army Recruting Cmc. better known as USARECTUM.
This was during the Reagan build up, and this was supposedly a "Choice" assignment according to those that tried to console me at having to wait to try out for SF and "suck it up" out in recruiting. There was no escape other than to ETS.
For brevity's sake, I can sum it up by saying it sucked royally. The pressures are immense and never ending. Not only are you constantly under the gun from the CO leadership team to "Make mission" or else..... but the constant rejection by candidates, their parents, teachers, administrators, bar tenders and anyone who sees your uniform and feels they just HAVE to tell you their opinion of the Army is relentless. Everyone....EVRYONE had an uncle or cousin that was a "whacked out" Vietnam vet, who of course, had been totally lied to and abused by his recruiters, causing his current malaise.
When a kid comes home from Basic after telling the CO that he often thinks of suicide, mass murder and killing kitty cats.....do you believe this kid comes home and tells his family and friends this???? HELL NO!!! It was that f#@*ing POS recuiter that lied his ass off that caused little Johnny to fail.
Anytime I was sent to a school or training amongst "Regular" Army troops, you were constantly bombarded with jealousy, animosity and the always asked: "So, how does it feel to lie to people all day and get paid???"

While I was a recruiter in the time frame 1985-1988, there were at least 3 suicides and i don't even know how many melt downs in our Battalion. (A recruiting BN in those days was probably 300-400 troops) This was "peace time"...remember that?? The night after the USAF bombed Libya, I was sitting in the office around 1930, when someone fired a pellet gun through our window about 10' from where I was "dialing for dollars". I was spit at, cussed at....to this day....I would rather go from Ranger school, to SFAS and back to Ranger school without a cycle break, than return to USARECTUM

The point to my story is: Recruiting is a tough assignment. I can only imagine how hard it has become in the last 5 or 6 years since the GWOT became so unpopular with so many people. If you really want to help with this situation, next time you see a recruiter in the mall or burger king, go up and tell him he's doing a good, hard job and that you believe in the cause. Better yet, drop into a station sometime, and just jawjack with the guys and gals in the station. Buy em all a coffee! It caused suicides in peacetime, of course some of the will go over the edge in times like these.

My heart goes out to all the families and survivors. Even more so to anyone who is "command selected" to become a recruiter. May it pass quiclky.

[69harley]

I was hit with orders to recruiting command while assigned to 3rd Ranger Bn. I was crushed. The chain of command got me out of it once, but the second time I had to go. It sucked allot. I was a SSG then, close to be being selected for SFC. I was called on the carpet often. My SERE training came in very handy. I just kept thinking about being in my happy place. I was threatened with losing stripes, money, whatever. Bad NCOER, I didn't care. A bad NCOER for recruiting, I had three smoking hot NCOERs written by some of the finest infantrymen in the world. I didn't give a shit about anything recruiting command could threaten me with. It was a long three years, and yes I did loose a rank. I went back to the regiment, got my rank back and caught up with my peers.

After being chewed up and spit out by recruiting command, my advice for recruiters is to work hard, don't lie and don't let recruiting command get to you. Eventually it will be over, and whatever they did to you can be undone after you get back to the warfighting Army. F-ck 'em!

[Richard]

I was a SGT in the 7th SFG and had to go for an interview with USAREC at Bragg for consideration for a 6 months 'Hometown Recruiting' TDY. They never told me why I wasn't selected, but my guess is I flunked their interview when my stock answer to their "What if's.." regarding making mission and recruit quality was to tell them I'd advise the guy to go see the Marine/Navy/Air Force recruiter because I wouldn't want the guy with me and wouldn't want to pawn him off on anybody else in the Army, either...and it didn't matter whether I was gonna make mission or not.

From discussions with friends who got sucked into USAREC, the pressures there are no lie.

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[BigJimCalhoun]

If you really want to help with this situation, next time you see a recruiter in the mall or burger king, go up and tell him he's doing a good, hard job and that you believe in the cause. Better yet, drop into a station sometime, and just jawjack with the guys and gals in the station. Buy em all a coffee! It caused suicides in peacetime, of course some of the will go over the edge in times like these.
.
As a civilian I did not realize that the recruiters are under that much pressure. I figured it was an assignment of sorts and though there are goals, failure to meet those goals did not affect the recruiter's job/lives directly.

I will take efforts to better the lives of the recruiters that I meet.

[Richard]

Recruiting is a sales position, you are selling the Army. Some people are better salesmen than others.

And don't forget - some locations are better than others as far as quality and availability of recruits is concerned. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

[72_Wilderness]

I'd say shame on Time Magazine for bringing it back up to the surface. Let the men be remembered the way they should be, with respect.

RIP SFC Henderson, SSG Flores

[gagners]

And don't forget - some locations are better than others as far as quality and availability of recruits is concerned. ;)

Richard's $.02 :munchin

There are areas less than 15 MILES apart that can mean the difference in meeting/exceeding mission or getting the "piece of shit with ears" NCOER.

[swpa19]

I have worked with a variety of recruiters in and out of the service. The pressures on these young soldiers is intense. One friend broke state recruiting records for enlisting X amount of soldiers. He was given a plaque, letters of accomodations, a handful of "attaboys", and told to try and get XX amount of soldiers for the next quarter.

I have the highest regard for those that are recruiters.

[Scimitar]

I consult sales System and Sales Management for a living; I say that to make this point...

When I got married, my best buddy was in the middle of a family crisis and living overseas, although I asked him to be best man, I just didn't have the heart to push the issue and have him fly half way around the world for the wedding. His life was falling apart around him.

So I was left with a problem, who should I have as a best man?

Then I thought to myself…
"Who's the best man I know?"

It was a no brainer…the Station Commander of the recruiting station I enlisted in.

I have NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER, seen a man tackle such an extremely difficult and thankless job, with a smile AND get mission...every...freakin....month. And remember I do that kinda stuff for a living.

SFC Darren Robinson personifies the NCO creed and is a significant reason why I am reenlisting.

When I really sat down and thought about it…the BS I saw him having to pull day-in and day-out…It is one of the few times in my life that I can think of were I have seen true character at work, that and my Father. Funny thing is my Father was a 20 year military man himself, no coincidence there I think.

Recruiting IS like a three year deployment (not that I've deployed, but you get my drift), next time you see a recruiter tell him thanks. Believe me he’s earned it.

S

[VVVV]

I'd say shame on Time Magazine for bringing it back up to the surface. Let the men be remembered the way they should be, with respect.


What would sweeping it under the rug and leaving it hidden accomplish?

[72_Wilderness]

WCH, I wasn't implying that it should be swept under the rug. It being, the stress that is put on the Recruiters and the need for something to change.

I believe that any service member that has a need for any sort of counseling after a deployment should get it. Something more than a standardized block of instruction, for the stress that they are put through I feel if they need it, they have earned it.

I was commenting on the fact that Time Magazine brought old news to the top specifically about two Soldiers in Texas. If Time Magazine would have written the article in late October or November I would not have thought that they were trying to use the situation to meet some desired goal or have an alternate effect. It's been almost six months.

Take into consideration what TR said. I believe this is there attempt to give their claim some sort of backing, however wrong and out of place it may be. We can see through it, but we are not the target audience either.


Monday October 20, 2008

Widow pleads for recruiting overhaul / Iraq vet asks Army to evaluate high-stress duty

By LINDSAY WISE
Staff

Two weeks ago today, Sgt. First Class Patrick Henderson walked into a shed behind his house, locked the door and hanged himself from a rafter.

The 35-year-old soldier was the fifth Houston-based Army recruiter to commit suicide in seven years.

Now his wife - also a recruiter - says she hopes his death will lead to an overhaul of the Army's high-stress recruiting practices.

"My husband was an Iraq veteran, a strong, proud man," Staff Sgt. Amanda Henderson, 32, said this week in her first public statements since her husband's death. "He loved and served his country and went above and beyond the call of duty, and I don't want others to go through this."

Patrick Henderson's suicide came just six weeks after another recruiter, Staff Sgt. Larry Flores Jr., 26, hanged himself in his garage in Palestine Aug. 9. Both men belonged to the Houston Recruiting Battalion's Tyler Company and both were combat veterans.

Flores, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, was the station commander in Nacogdoches, where Amanda Henderson worked. Her husband was assigned to Longview station.

Douglas Smith, spokesman for U.S. Army Recruiting Command, declined to comment for this article.

In a statement last week, USAREC announced it will establish a Suicide Prevention Board and send a team, including a psychologist and chaplain, to the Houston battalion later this month.

Army officials acknowledge recruiting is one of the toughest jobs in the military, especially at a time when the U.S. is fighting two wars.

Houston battalion recruiters who spoke to the Chronicle said they work 12- to 14-hour days, six or seven days a week. If they don't fill monthly quotas, they're criticized as failures, punished with even longer hours and threatened with losing rank or receiving poor evaluations, they said.

"Some people are really good at recruiting, and I think that's good for them," said Amanda Henderson, who served in Iraq from 2004 to 2005. "But it's not fair to these veterans who are coming back and being treated like crap just because they can't meet the quota."

She'd like to see recruiters treated with more compassion and given better access to mental health care. The Army should also give soldiers more time between combat deployments and recruiting assignments so they have time to re- adjust to society, she said.

..We are humans, too'

"We're recruiters and we have a job to do, and I understand that and I understand that these hours are long, but we are humans, too, and we have families," she said.

The couple met a year ago in "recruiter school" at Fort Jackson, S.C.

"He was always cracking jokes, he was always laughing, and I think what attracted me most about him was that even though he was the class clown, he was strong," Amanda said.

Patrick had already served three years as a recruiter with the Houston battalion before deploying to Iraq in November 2005.

He badly injured his knee in an explosion, but still went on missions with a leg brace.

Less than a year after returning home in November 2006, he was reassigned to the Houston Recruiting Battalion again.

"Even though he hated recruiting he knew he was a soldier and he had to do his job to the best of his ability," his wife said.

The upbeat soldier was a hard worker who helped keep his fellow recruiters motivated, said Staff Sgt. Joe Quinters, who supervised Patrick as a station commander in Longview.

"A lesser person would've quit, but he was always out in the schools, always out in the community," he said. "He was very well-respected and liked, and every person he put in (the Army) had nothing but good things to say about him."

Stress on couple

Amanda and Patrick married Jan. 7. To celebrate, they tattooed their initials linked by tiny hearts on their ring fingers.

But she soon talked to her husband more on the phone than she saw him. Eating meals together was a luxury. They got home so late that they only had enough energy to collapse into bed.

When Flores killed himself in August, the stress on their marriage and professional lives doubled, she said.

"I know after Sgt. Flores' death, Patrick didn't seem like himself," Amanda said. "He took it very badly because he was trying to hold me up. I was having a hard time with it, and I was crying a lot."

Two weeks after Flores' suicide, Patrick threatened to kill himself, screaming that he couldn't take it anymore. Amanda called a friend who came over and talked to Patrick until he calmed down and lay down on the couch.

"I watched him all night long because he slept with his eyes open," Amanda said. "It was the freakiest thing."

The next morning, Patrick was delirious. "He didn't know where he was," Amanda said. "He went from thinking he was recruiting to thinking he was in Iraq."

Patrick spent four days in a Longview hospital before being transferred to Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio for evaluation, Amanda said. Doctors prescribed medication for anxiety, depression and insomnia and told him he needed outpatient therapy and marriage counselling, she said. Patrick was taken off recruiting duty and told to report to Company headquarters in Tyler to await reassignment.

"He just kept telling me that he just got to a breaking point and it's over and he wants to go on," Amanda said.

..I think he just snapped'

On Sept. 19, Patrick met Amanda at a bar in Nacogdoches. Amanda later told police they'd argued and she'd suggested maybe they should separate for a while. But by the time Patrick arrived at the bar, they'd made up, she said. "He came up to me and gave me a big hug, and everything was OK," Amanda said. She went to bed thinking the drama was over.

Patrick was found dead the next morning. "I think he just snapped," his wife said.

He leaves behind three children from a previous marriage and a stepson with Amanda.

Now she's on leave, trying to wrap her mind around what happened.

"I liked recruiting in a way because the Army puts a roof over my head," Amanda said. "I just graduated from college with the help of the Army. I've gotten to see the world because of the Army. And I don't mind talking to people about the Army. But I can't force you to do something because I like it."

Her husband, a proud infantryman, felt the same way, she said.

"Patrick always used to say this: ..My career is based on the whims of a 17-year-old kid.' And I can still hear him saying that in my head."

72W

[Firebeef]

I'm not sure how they do it today, but it was a rather lenghty and painful process. They obviously can hold way more over a soldier who volunteered or has converted to a Recruiter MOS. As a command selected recruiter (assigned kicking and screaming), the first month you "roll a doughnut", they usually don't freak out too bad, but they will come in and look at your PMS (Production Mgmt System) which is a system used to track (supposedly) how many phone calls you need to make, how many appts you need to conduct, how many candidates take the ASVAB, etc etc, all the way til enlistment. It;s only supposed to be a "tool" for you to track and plan your own success, but after the second or 3rd bad month, it becomes a club to pummel you with.
Then comes the dreaded "Meeting with the CSM". Man they made that out to be like the end of the world, but having come from a Combat Arms background, I thought it was a pretty wimpy ass chewing personally, worthy of a brand new Corporal or SGT, not a CSM.
Then the RTO (Recruiter Training NCO) comes and listens and watches you make phone calls and conduct appts, and "mentors" you. Of course, there are counselling statements even from the first Doughnut or Zug. If you are trying, or you can convince them you are trying, they'll continue to work with you, and if a soldier just isn;t cut out to be a recruiter (although they never liked to admit that sales wasn't a learnable skill) somewheres around 6 months they will begin relief for cause paperwork. I rarely saw anyone who was chaptered out for just not making quota (mission they call it !!!) There were more than a few meltdowns, though, DUIs in Gov Cars (the dreaded K cars!!) even back in the 80s were a quick ticket to back-on-da-block street. One recruiter in our BN was caught red handed....or assed with a female High School student....in the library...in the act. The Army and USMC recruiters seemed to handle the stress of recruitering pretty well. We had a Navy meltdown in our town about every 6 months or so. Everyone I know who was in recruiting and was relieved, went back to their old MOS to do great things and some even passed me on the promtion ladder. There were times I really just wanted to say "screw it" and let them relieve me, but I guess that good ol' competitive edge or stubbornness of a Scotsman, or maybe I just was an idiot. In any case I ended up surviving, holding my head up, because I never once lied to a kid, or fudged or forged documents or background checks. I actually was awarded the Gold Badge ....the Holy Grail of Recruiting, to those that gave a shjt. I was just happy to have survived, and even though it took me longer, I still made it to SF .....just older and wiser, and probably mostly sorer than if I had done it 4 years earlier.
Maybe someone who was a recruiter can enlighten us to how they do it nowadyas.... I left USARECTUM in Nov 88.
Hope this answers some of your question

[CoLawman]

One of those #$%^@ Army Recruiters got me to sign up for 3 of the most important and transformative years of my life. I'll be heading to the Recruiting Station to chat with the folks, as Firebeef suggested.